♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: glenn beck is here, one of the country's most outspoken conservative media people. his self-titled show on fox news ran until 2011, when he founded blaze tv, a subscription-based online streaming network. his syndicated radio show can be heard on over 400 stations nationwide. he left the republican party in 2015 after accusing it of being insufficiently conservative. he has been an outspoken critic of donald trump. we will talk about that and more. i'm pleased to have glenn beck at this table for the first time. we have been inviting him for a number of years.

welcome. glenn: how are you, sir? charlie: i'm good. it's good to have you here. as yogi berra said, it is not over till it's over. but is it over? glenn: depends on what it is. charlie: it is an election that the democratic nominee hillary clinton wins big against donald trump. glenn: i have been wrong about donald trump and his performance almost every step of the way, so i am not willing to count him out at this point. i can't see it, but people are really in a different place than even i thought they would be. they are -- they are frustrated, they feel like nobody is listening to them. they have been feeling this way , i think, since george w. bush.

the left felt this way under bush, and some of the republicans and the right felt this way under obama. under obama, the right really felt like nobody was listening, nobody cared, nobody understood. poking, prodding, accusing them of being violent or racist when they just wanted to be heard. what has happened is, donald trump has tapped into this, and he has taken the small number of people on the alt-right that are racist, and they have energized this movement. i think because people are in a position now where they unfortunately, somewhat want to bring the whole thing down. i don't know how it is going to -- charlie: you are the best person to ask this because you know the conservative world. what is the alt-right? glenn: i don't know if you can really describe it yet.

it is a growing movement. it has real roots in russia. alexander dugin is somebody that really, people should be paying attention to. you will see that 48% of trump supporters believe that putin is a good guy. he is clearly not a good guy. and this comes from this neo-eurasian movement that is happening over in russia and starting to spread into europe. i have been watching it for a while. when i was on fox, i warned that you would see the neo-nazis start to rise in europe and it would jump over to us, and it would infect the right. and it has. charlie: it sometimes comes under the notion of being a populist movement. glenn: what has happened is you have combined here in america , the neo-nazis and the klan for the first time ever.

i'm sure you saw this four weeks ago, the neo-nazis, the klan, and white supremacists all signed a pact together to stand together. they feel this is their opportunity. and so you have united them, plus this populist movement and nationalism. and it is a toxic, toxic group that -- you know -- charlie: and the anti-globalism, which is a populist movement. anti-globalization. glenn: that is part of the neo-eurasian movement. charlie: which we saw in the brexit vote as well, fueled by immigration, globalization, the loss of jobs. and they feel like nobody is listening. glenn: there is an underlying thing that i think, there are two pieces that are important. first, the underlying feeling i think with all americans is, i

don't feel like i really belong to anything anymore. i don't know what the country means. i don't know where we are headed. i don't necessarily feel comfortable in my church, my party. what i'm saying is, people generally don't feel comfortable and know there is something they can count on. they don't feel like they belong to anything. on top of it, they don't feel like they are being listened to by anyone. the third part is, they don't feel like they have control over their life, their business. charlie: and things are going to get worse. glenn: they could. charlie: they fear that. they fear their children will not have as good a life as they had, and they look at declining income standards and worry about that. and their jobs are not secure. glenn: correct. charlie: and therefore, they blame trade deals and other

kinds of factors. glenn: here is where we can show stability, and this is where america, if we are going to survive this as a great nation, if we are going to reverse the trend, the inevitable trend that always happens at the end of empires, if we are going to reverse it, and we think -- and i think we can, we have to know the difference between authenticity and transparency, know the difference between the justice that we have going on now and real, true, equal justice. we have been a stable country. the reason people invest in us and the reason we are the leader in the world is because we are stable. we don't have revolutions. charlie: and because we value rule of law. glenn: i don't think we do anymore.

it started with the financial bailouts. i'm not too big to save. you are not too big to save. charlie: but financial institutions are. to fail. too big to fail. glenn: too big to fail, yes. on top of it, instead of saying, ok, we're going to help you, but now you have to make yourself smaller, we made them bigger. charlie: here is what i don't understand. there is the nativist and as you have said, the fascist and fringe elements, we would call it. you think they are becoming, how are they connected to donald trump? and did trump seek them out? glenn: i think -- charlie: with the birther stuff and other things, was he looking for a base he thought could give him traction? glenn: to quote immanuel kant, there are many things i believe that i shall never say, but i

shall never say the things i do not believe. i am weighing how much more damage will be done by telling you what i believe. charlie: tell me what you really believe. glenn: i'm not sure donald trump is as smart as that, as well-read as that. i'm not sure that he is a deep thinker. i think he goes off his gut, and his gut has served him well for what he does. what he does. i do think there are those around him who are deep thinkers. stephen bannon is one of them, from breitbart. he knows exactly what is going on. he has said breitbart has become a platform for the alt-right. when they explained it, they explained it and said, the greatest, the voice for the alt-right, i can't remember his name now, but he is a very spooky guy, and his wife is the english translator for dugin --

alexander dugin in russia. they know exactly what is going on. i think there is enough of, and i have always hated this, i have never believed in this, but i do believe it is true here, he speaks in dog whistles. whether he knows it or not, he does, and the people around him definitely do. charlie: he being donald trump. glenn: and bannon knows exactly who he is appealing to. he is putting together a coalition. whether there is an eventual where thatng knives coalition goes away, he knows who he is bringing into the tent. the average american does not. this has been really concerning to me. i warned about this three years ago, the influence of dugin. he was pouring money into church organizations in america about gay marriage. i pointed this out and said, you don't know what you are getting into bed with.

you have to be very careful who we are standing next to. you may agree on one thing or another, but you better look into who they really are, because yeah, sure, i may believe in taking care of our borders, but if it is a neo-nazi, i'm not going to bond with you. charlie: so what does the seeming trend in this election suggest to you, that america has said no, no, no, we are not going there? or has it found the messenger simply, in their judgment, because of a range of factors, unacceptable? glenn: i think the right has been, and rightly so in many ways, has been trained that hillary clinton is the worst thing that could happen to us. charlie: trained by?

glenn: by the media, by the parties, by people who look for ratings or votes or -- charlie: and you are on the record of saying that is not true, that she could be the worst thing. glenn: i think the worst thing that could happen to us is that we would lose ourselves, who we are and our principles. charlie: can you imagine voting for hillary clinton? glenn: i can't. charlie: what would you do? write in? glenn: i think i will, there are two candidates i am ok with. , i amither of them are not now, nor have i ever been a supporter of hillary clinton or donald trump. charlie: back to the point of trump and this connection are , you suggesting by using the word dog whistle that somehow he is not aware of how he has been brought into this? he does not get it, and he is intoxicated by all that has happened and intoxicated by the crowd, the rallies, the sense

that, because he talks about himself as a movement, the leader of the movement. there is speculation that that's what he wants to do if in fact this does not work, and that he and stephen bannon and others -- there are reports that he is having meetings with investment bankers. do you buy that? glenn: yes. charlie: you think that is the goal? glenn: i think that may have been the goal from the beginning. charlie: you do? that this was never the anticipation of winning, it was about branding and creating an empire that would have a contained and sustainable influence on american politics? glenn: i think that was bannon. he said this was a uniting movement. i think trump thought, this will be fun, i will give it a whirl. i might last last six months. i don't think he saw himself winning, and i think he has put himself in a position now where, if you look at the financials of

his empire, his hotel empire, when they start changing the name of trump hotels, to what are they calling it now? scion? there is trouble for him. charlie: you have called him a pathological liar and possibly a sociopath. what is the indication he is a sociopath? glenn: have you seen him during the last year and a half, truly who couldn'tone help him? truly connect on a human level, and say, this has made me stop, made me think. you know, i'm deeply sorry for what i have said. you know, a sociopath is somebody who does not really see

the human experience in anyone else. and i have not seen that in him. i have not seen him deeply affected by the human condition. charlie: no sense of vulnerability. glenn: none. frightening. charlie: what do you make of the fact that he refuses to say that he, like everybody else, will abide by the results of the election? does that go back to whatever you are talking about in terms of some sense of authoritarianism, which you have raised? glenn: i think that is -- charlie: it astounded people, it was the most important thing coming out of the third debate. glenn: it is much more important than who wins, i think, is are we going to be able to come back together? and i think this is a logical

step, that we started even during the first clinton, the right started playing the game then. supporterss questioned it, and selected, not elected. then the right again with barack obama and the birth certificate, and now this. charlie: the al gore thing came after the election, not before. glenn: correct. no, i am just saying we are upping the ante every time, and we are losing faith in the system itself. we cannot do that. charlie: that is the the point. drumbeat is the system is corrupt. glenn: that is the drumbeat everywhere. police acted stupidly, before seeing what the facts are. let's look at the facts. let's look at who shot who,

when did it happen, why did it happen. have trust that there is -- charlie: a rush to judgment, you're saying. glenn: more importantly, charlie, and this is where, and i am taking a lot of heat for it, but it has to be done. i have to stop looking at the other side and saying, if anybody wants to know how i feel about hillary clinton, nobody was asking me 10 years ago when i'm clearly on the record how i feel about her. they want to know now because it furthers an agenda. what we have to do is -- charlie: they also want to know people who a lot of couldn't imagine themselves voting for her are prepared to vote for her. because they look at the choice here, they are republicans or independence, she and donald trump are both unpopular candidates. and they couldn't imagine voting for her, but the election has drove them to that point. glenn: i know. i think there are a lot of republicans that were not on board with trump at the beginning that are now looking

at her, and they are voting for something they would never dream of doing. charlie: trump. glenn: right. so we are in this place where we are making it about the other person, instead of about our principles. what we have to do, charlie, is we have to take the beam out of our own eye. if we are going to restore our nation and get back to the place where the rest of the world will trust us again, the only way to do it is not for media to make fun or to point out the wrongs of the right, but for the leaders in the right, in the conservatives, to stand up and clean out their own house first, clean out their own life first. same with the left. charlie: clean out their life means what? what do the conservatives need to do about their own life? glenn: i think the damage that is being done in the church

right now is far greater than jim and tammy faye ever did. charlie: that was 20 years ago. glenn: that was 20 years ago, and look how long it took to get past that. charlie: but also, you have a very popular pope. i think he is popular. you have the catholic church, they are in the midst of a very popular pope. because he seems authentic, because he seems transparent. he seems of the people. glenn: he also seems to say, i will call out the sins of my own people first. charlie: yes. glenn: that is what has to happen. i'm getting a lot of heat for not talking about hillary clinton. but anybody who listens to me, they know how i feel about hillary clinton. what is important now is how we feel about us in the decisions we are making.

and what really can help, and i understand it now, from the press, i really do, i think the press is so free out by donald -- free out by donald trump, they are saying let's just not really look at the wikileaks things, let's not look at these scandals and the fbi, let's not look at it right now. because they are freaked out by donald trump. when that passes, if the press wants their credibility back, they must go back and look at that and say, ok, we must stand for equal justice. if it is wrong, even if it furthers my side -- charlie: if we look at wikileaks, what does it say? what are we learning about the way power works in washington? that is part of what you seem to be saying. we see a system, and we understand how the levers of power work in that system. glenn: correct. charlie: we understand how there is a kind of affinity among

people who are part of the system. glenn: and there is an excusing of those players on both sides, if it is my side. and we have to stand for the rule of law. washington said that we are a nation of laws and not men. now we are a nation of men, of people, and not laws. charlie: washington clearly said that, and that is why he did not want to be king. glenn: correct. charlie: and he chose not to run again after serving two terms. glenn: i think we have royalty on both sides. charlie: you mean bushes and clintons? glenn: no, the whole thing. look. all the way down to this. everything that is happening with donald trump right now, all of the accusations, the people who are defending him in those accusations are all the people

that did not accept those same excuses back in the 1990's. back in the 1990's when it happened to bill clinton, they were all saying the exact opposite. but because we are a nation now of men and not universal laws, they will say it doesn't matter. wait a minute. if you are a nation of laws, and it mattered then, then it matters now. but if it advances our argument, or our side, we dismiss it. that has to stop on both sides. it has to stop. ♪

♪ charlie: there was a media frenzy about bill clinton, number one. number two, there was a vote of impeachment in the house. glenn: look at the pattern of -- charlie: so there was rule of law taking place. glenn: yeah, yeah. i'm talking about the general was, it at the time didn't happen, it didn't happen, and then, ok, it did happen, but it does not matter. and the right was saying, it did happen, because look at how many accusations there are. something's not right here. charlie: you mean the women who came forward to accuse him of things that were not -- the same people who had a press conference with donald trump right before the debate. glenn: correct. so you flip it, and his argument

is, what? a vast left-wing conspiracy? .t's the same argument it doesn't matter. we are not electing a pope, it is a vast leing conspiracy. it is the same thing. that is where i think people are tired. it's,re tired of, charlie, do you know anything that we as a people have spent more time on in the last 10 years than arguing about the president, one way or another? this one, bush, obama, the next one. since 2000, seems like all we're doing is arguing about the president. what could we have done with our time? with the man-hours the average person puts in. and the average person is not playing a game. charlie: you could also argue, what could we have achieved if we did not have gridlock in washington? glenn: yeah, what i'm talking

about, however -- charlie: because of the power, the resources of the country. because of all the possibilities. and with an urgent need to look at everything from infrastructure -- glenn: i think we are talking about two different things. charlie: science, different things. glenn: i agree with you. you are looking at the political picture. i'm looking at the civilian or societal picture. you are right. look at the things we could've accomplished. but i want to focus on, and this is why it is more important to talk about what happens after the election, is that people feel as though they meant it. they meant it. not everybody, apparently, because we learned this with

trump's movement. they meant it. i really am against these things, and i'm for these things. so i stood up, i risked being called names. i did things that make me very uncomfortable, by going to rallies. i'm not that guy. a lot of people felt that way. charlie: for the record, you supported ted cruz. glenn: yes. so we did things as families, only to have the republicans betray us over and over and over again. wow, theye felt like, don't really believe in anything. they believe in their system and their jobs and what they want to do, and they are using us. charlie: the sentiment of people across the country, who are disenchanted with everything, and believe -- glenn: correct. what we have to do is find leaders in and out of washington, leaders in ourselves, that say, no, i do

stand for these principles, and they are unwavering. glenn: those leaders should come from churches? from --? glenn: everything. everywhere. charlie: from the government, the military? glenn: the local bakery. everywhere. charlie: when you think about the things that brought you so much attention on television, on fox, on the radio, has there been evolution? is glenn back today -- glenn i know you are an evolving human being with responsibilities to family, country, to yourself. you have got an empire in texas. and good for you, but has any of this, in a sense, changed because of what you see in the politics, affected you personally, so that it changes your own attitude about what you do with yourself and your time? glenn: charlie, when it was,

"rolling stone" just did an article. they said in 2006 or 2007 that i was the fourth most admired man, between the pope and nelson mandela. charlie: i did see that. glenn: then a year later, i am glenn beck, the firebreathing radical. i don't think any man can go through that swing without changing anything. and to also be the guy who is hated by half the country without deep, profound reflection. am i any of those things? charlie: are there things that you did that you now regret? like what? what is the best example? you say, i wish i had not been there, had not done that, had not fanned that flame?

glenn: easy. reading the president's book where he talks about the white culture, hearing him say police act stupidly, getting on fox news and saying -- i think this guy has a deep-seated problem with white people. charlie: you said more than that. glenn: i think i said he is a racist. i don't remember. i said bad things. i own them all. wrong. wrong. right to be able to think, to search. i was searching for -- who is this man? where is he coming from? you read his book, he talks about the way the white culture will do you.

where does that come from? charlie: i assume from his experiences. glenn: correct. but how much of a role does it play? to be able to question is important. to say those things as flippantly as i said, to pile on -- not good. charlie: you were never part of the birther thing? glenn: never. charlie: fast forward to this campaign season for glenn beck. you have praised, loudly, michelle obama and her speeches. glenn: a speech, yeah. charlie: the convention speech and the speech about women. glenn: yes, i thought they were very good. charlie: you praised her because you thought that she was --? glenn: the last speech she gave -- charlie: she gave one and basically said "it hurts me to my core --" glenn: the speech she gave about donald trump and being uncomfortable as a woman to her core i thought was really well delivered, spot on, and

important. the subtlety here is, she also praised beyoncé. not in that speech, but is that -- is beyoncé a good role model? and this despicable. i think there is some place in between here that we need to find. but i thought her speech spoke to women. charlie: i admired her here, but not here, because i have some differences. glenn: correct. charlie: hillary clinton, let's assume she does win. even in texas, you suggested to me when you set down that she was doing well in texas, could win texas. glenn: i know. i'm not sure she will.

charlie: i'm not sure either, and we don't know -- glenn: but for it to be in play speaks volumes, not about her, but about donald trump. and anyone who says it is the people -- because this is the charge right now -- it is people like you, glenn beck, who are standing up and not getting into the boat -- no, it is about donald trump. it has to stop being about the r or the d, it has to be about principles. if this man ran for the democratic party, the people who are standing up now and heralding him would be slicing him to ribbons. he is a more than imperfect and flawed messenger, because his message is the wrong message. charlie: therefore, back to the point you made at the beginning when we were talking about who it is -- people who feel left

out in america. and seeing where they are, how they feel about their circumstances, and that the system has not worked for them, and they don't feel like anybody is listening to them. would you recommend that clinton, if she is inaugurated on january 20, as a first order of business, she should speak to those people and say, i'm listening? you did not vote for me necessarily, but i'm here. glenn: if i could quote george washington again -- deeds, not words. charlie: what would be those deeds? glenn: i don't know. but it starts with cleaning out your own house, making sure -- doing things like -- the irs has been weaponized, and it would be weaponized for the right as

easily for the left. charlie: meaning being used for political purposes? glenn: let's de-weaponize something. do something that hurts your party cause. not your principles, but your party cause. put it on the table and say, in the spirit of coming together, it is important that we restore this principle. and i don't know if anybody is willing to do that, but i think that is what has to happen. words won't cut it anymore. somebody has to be bigger. somebody has to self-sacrifice. charlie: back to you. there was a suggestion that glenn might be changing his business and going out of this and into this, or something. after the election, are you

going to be any different in terms of how you are today, in terms of how you communicate in radio and television and all that? is any of that going away? glenn: no, none of that is going away. i am retooling for the future, as every business should be, knowing that if you don't retool every few years, you are going to be out of business. as far as message, i hope i'm different. charlie: what is the battle within the conservative community that is likely to be played out after the selection, if things happen the way polls indicate? glenn: i think the most important question is the question that cavemen asked at the fire.

who am i? who are we? and i think we need to ask that as individuals, as families, as communities, as parties, as a country. who am i? what do i really believe? what is worth dying for? what is worth living for? what have we learned over the last 200 years that we see, this is the essence of who we are, this is what made us great, this is what made us stable, this is what brought us out of darkness and the cold into warmth, into this. charlie: people who have different views than you are saying the same thing. they should come together and talk, as you say -- first, speak to the issue, and then do something, which is the deeds. thank you for coming. glenn: charlie, thank you. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: sarah jessica parker is here. she stars in the new comedy series "divorce." it comes from creator sharon horgan. she and thomas haden church play a couple who decide to end their marriage after almost two decades. she returns to hbo 12 years after the series finale of "sex and the city." here is a look. >> how many times did you have intercourse with his french

penis? >> oh, um, hm, around 30, 32? >> what the --? 32? you had sex 32 times? charlie: i am pleased to welcome sarah jessica parker. that is what brought you back to television? being able to reflect on how many times you had seen or -- whatever. jessica: sort of. the landscape, the territory -- it was an idea i had about four years ago.

generally speaking, i was curious about exploring marriage and long-term, committed relationships. i think i was looking at friends in my life in the various stages they found themselves, whether the conventional institution of marriage or just having long commitments that were substantive and meaningful. it was interesting and curious to see people at various points of reckoning, contemplating big decisions -- divorce, affairs. i just think it is such a rich landscape of material. charlie: did you then look for that idea? look for the right kind of piece of work that you could sell hbo on? jessica: yes, exactly.

charlie: this was in a sense, something that came from you wanting to find the right thing to return to television, the right vehicle? jessica: no, it was among several things i was producing and developing, my company at hbo. it was just an idea among many that i was interested in, but i found compelling. it was not until much later in the process that it was revealed to me that hbo was assuming -- or very generously hoping -- that i would play the wife. and that was a big decision to make, because i knew what that meant. charlie: what did it mean? jessica: it meant, as you know, an enormous commitment. i spent a lot of wonderful years, and those years included 80 to 100 hour weeks in front of the camera and behind it, and i loved the process of producing television, but it deserves all of you. and when you are given 30 minutes on hbo, you better be

freaking deserving of those 30 minutes. that means you cross the finish line bloody. and the more that we developed this story and the idea, the more it became impossible for me to say no. and frankly, i was not generous enough in spirit to offer it to someone else. it was the first woman -- it was the first woman since playing carrie bradshaw who was as complicated, as human, as willing to illustrate shortcomings and triumphs and be disappointing and reliable and a deeply committed person and somebody who is -- has surprisingly bad judgment. all of that makes for a very exciting -- charlie: what does it say about marriage?

it is difficult, complicated, there are affairs? jessica: i think it says all of that. i think it is also a portrait of marriage now, a marriage that is struggling financially because of our economy, because of choices that the partners made. it is a marriage that is complicated by infidelity and revelations of financial fraud and children. and yet amusing and ridiculous. and it is also an examination of an attempt at divorce and what that means for most families of working americans, who are not super wealthy, who are middle class and trying to do it right and be decent and honorable in the process. who orbits divorce, who feeds on

divorce, what does it do to your friendships? i think there is a lot to say. charlie: we see all of this here. do we see her coming to the revelation that divorce is the only way? jessica: yes. in the pilot episode, she is at a dinner party, a seemingly benign event, and there is a monumental moment between molly shannon's character and another character, and a gun is pulled and a shot is fired. it is sort of the undoing for frances. she finally reveals that she has felt this inertia in her marriage, which has felt like somebody stepping on her chest. as she says to her husband as

the body is being removed behind her, that she wants to save her life while she still cares about it. which for me is like -- and he is devastated. they have been through counseling, married 17 years, they have recommitted, all the things that people do when they take vows and are serious, mature people. she feels she can no longer do that. and then it is revealed that she is also having an affair, which is awful and even more brutal. the tables sort of turn, and he goes from being a terribly sympathetic husband who wants to convince her that she is in shock and they still have a chance, to being devastated and sort of combative. charlie: this is where frances learns that robert once had an emotional affair with an old friend. >> hang on. you are talking about your old college buddy, kathy, aren't you? >> i don't see how naming names -- >> infuriating.

>> i did not say -- >> this was a woman you were on the phone all the time with, and e-mailed, and she even went on a fishing trip with him. >> there was a group trip -- >> when i got suspicious and jealous and everything, because it just seemed weird, he convinced me that i had trust issues. >> because you did have trust issues. >> the point is that i started seeing a therapist to find out what was so wrong with me that i was freaked out about my husband and his old platonic college buddy. >> we were study buddies junior-senior year. >> and i was right to be suspicious because he was having an emotional affair with her the whole time. >> it was not an affair. we didn't --. >> so what? i want every single detail. if i'm going to be able to move forward, i'm going to want every single detail of the emotional affair you had with kathy.

just like you wanted from me. >> ok. first of all, you are right. it was kathy. >> i know. charlie: all right. you cast him. you are the executive producer, you wanted thomas haden church. jessica: we were on a phone call, sharon horgan and our producing partner, and he was the name i offered as a long shot. he had not worked in television in about 20 years. we did a movie together -- six or seven years ago. we did not play opposite one another. it is called "smart people." i loved working with him in the brief moments we had, and i'm a longtime admirer. we went back-and-forth, he is going to say no, and then i said, maybe we should -- let's

not say no for him. so we sent him the material, and i wrote him a letter and asked would he consider it, and he read it and said yes immediately. it has just been fantastic. charlie: what do you think he brings? jessica: he is such an exciting actor to work with, because he brings all sorts of treats and gifts and surprises. he is very serious about the work. as you can see, he is innately a funny person. he likes to find humor, but he is also a person who feels things rather deeply. and i think he brings a sort of tenderness, a sort of heartrending simplicity, in a way, to complexity. he gets it to its essence, but he is also deeply committed to

the work always. for me, to have somebody who is equally invested, who understands the privilege -- charlie: i assume because you are the star of this that it was essential that you are the one who had the affair. for story development? jessica: no -- i think it was more the story dictated that. charlie: let me interrupt, only because you knew who the character was, so the story dictated it. jessica: yes, i liked it, and it was not my idea necessarily, although from the beginning, i thought she should be having an affair. i thought it was a story that was real and existed around me and that this idea of a woman

having an affair -- which in this way, this tone, is not something that had been examined -- look at it more in 1970's cinema, you used to see more of that idea. but it was not really a comedic look. i just like that she had made this -- some might argue -- really bad decision, poorly timed, ill-advised, and that she had to quickly sort out what it meant to her in order to salvage her family life. charlie: children are involved? jessica: two children, 10 and 14. that just makes things much more challenging and complicated, and for frances, the stakes feel inordinately high, because her husband, as it happens, has threatened to use them -- to reveal, to share with them what a bad person she has been.

as he says through the door in the last moment of the pilot episode, he is going to make them hate her. which is pretty much the most devastating idea a mother could hear. charlie: to drive a wall between the children and mother. jessica: but she feels complicit, even in the conversation and threat. charlie: i am always interested in what is the moment of inflection. you say, to save my life while i have a life. jessica: while i still care about it. charlie: what does that mean, because it is interesting in terms of how people -- i think people who get divorced think about it for a long time. when they reach a breaking point, when they reach a moment when they have no other choice. jessica: i guess it is a difference between the things that annoy you not mattering and the things that really matter.

frances describes it in a later episode -- she talks with her parents, when she finally tells the news to her parents, that she feels enormous disappointment and failure. she talks about being in this marriage and recognizing that something was not right. they talk about having already been to counseling and recommitting, but she talks about this idea of feeling this emptiness -- as i have described, a sort of inertia, like somebody is stepping on one of your limbs, you are not able to breathe completely. she kept hoping he would see it, and when he did not see it and she would bring it to his attention and dance around it, he simply was unable to hear it in a way that was meaningful to her. i think for her, what it means is she feels like a part of her is dying.

and i think that is what ultimately people do feel in divorce -- it is no longer a place where you are thriving. i think the best marriages and committed relationships -- i think what most people probably tell you is they feel better together. they feel like it is this fruitful journey. they are fellow travelers. they have this investment in one another, and she no longer feels she can invest. and she has given up everything, which is also expected and right -- you do. but when there seems to be no return, or when the other party seems to be kind of blind to the contributions and diminishing of them, i think a lot of smart people feel like they have to salvage what is possibly left in front of them. charlie: this must occupy all of your life now. jessica: it takes up a huge,

wonderful chunk. but it is also a finite period, so i know there is this big, demanding, muscular thing that sits in front of me for four to six months. it shoots in new york city, and they very graciously let me be at a parent-teacher conference. that is the beauty of television. it is really a calendar, and eventually there is a blueprint that works beautifully. it is time-consuming, but i love -- i love being back at home at hbo. i did not realize until i was there how much i missed television. charlie: what is it about television? jessica: i love -- as strange as this sounds -- i love the limitations, the urgency. i love this idea that potentially you are in this alternate universe where you are

playing somebody else, sometimes spending more time being another person than you are your own. you keep learning about this person and the people who surround this person. ♪

mark: i'm mark crumpton. you're watching bloomberg technology. let's begin with a check of the first word news. the justice department and if the eisai they will have election officials ready on november 8 to respond to potential crimes. officials will monitor certain polling places that will have fewer observers and 2012 because a supreme court opinion gutted a key opinion of the voting rights act. the exact number of monitors will not be revealed until closer to election day. hillary clinton and donald trump remained deadlocked in a traditional red state of arizona. trump edges clinton in a new university poll. clinton has increased her presence in the state as the race tightened. in france, more migrants are expected to join the several