♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin this evening with a look at the presidential campaign. the race is once again a tight contest with less than a week remaining before election day. hillary clinton currently holds a narrow lead, with 45% of voters supporting her, 42% for trump. according to the latest new york times poll, respondents say that recent revelations

have made no significant impact on their decisions. joining me is bloomberg news' al hunt. who better to go to for a sense we are at this moment? have you put this old thing in context? al: context is very elusive these days, charlie. i think what you said is absolutely right. the race has tightened more than many of us thought. if it is a really close -- a a one-oint one-point race, say, she, clinton has an advantage with the electoral map, which only matters if it is a close race. if trump or clinton win by three or four points, the map won't matter. the polls are all over the place. cbs is a good poll, nbc is good, bloomberg is good. a lot of them are not good polls. i am looking at the early voting patterns. there are a couple who

follow it very closely. a guy named mike mcdonald at the university of florida. there is a huge surge in early voting. some states you can say with near certainty, it is almost clear who is going to win. nevada and colorado, hillary is as close to certain as she can be. trump is doing better in iowa and ohio. florida, big surprise, is a toss-up, which it probably will be until the wee hours of the morning on november 9. i was in your home state of north carolina last week, charlie, and here's what's interesting when you look at early voting. republicans are doing a little better, but the big surges among unaffiliated voters, up 45% from four years ago. who are they? people aren't sure. that, i think, really captures this election. charlie: but i read a thing in politico's playbook this morning that's suggesting there's no hidden trump vote. whatever analysis they indicate so far does not indicate what many people thought might be there as a hidden trump vote. al: right, the so-called bradley effect in

yearsrnia from many, many ago. i agree with that. there was no hidden trump vote during the primaries. if there was, you would have probably seen it then. i think a lot of people doing focus groups are not seeing that. most people for trump are proudly for trump. i am not sure who the 45% voting early in north carolina compared to last time, i'm not sure who they are. they may be young people, they may be suburban moderates, they may be people who favor her, but no one is certain. charlie: republicans seem to have come home in the last week or two. why is that? al: hillary. i'm not sure that the james comey revelation last friday really had a big impact. i don't think she lost any votes. but i think some republicans were resistant who said, i don't want four more years of this, and it brought back all their old memories.

i think in a very small way, there are a number of republicans -- and in some industrial states like michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin -- who have come home. charlie: there is one thing you notice in this campaign from the beginning. when the focus is on her because of e-mails, her numbers seem to decline. when the focus is on him because of attacks on women, either verbally or otherwise, then he seems to go down. in other words, if it is a referendum on her, her numbers decline. if it is a referendum on him, his numbers decline. al: that is why the comey thing was so upsetting to because ofts, not not going to vote but because of the

story. what has the story been for the last four days? all about hillary's e-mails and the fbi investigation, not about donald trump. that works to the republicans' advantage. the question is, over the last four days, will he once penchantrcise a great for stepping on his own narrative? charlie: do endorsements matter? newspapers, magazines? al: i don't think so. he's gotten an endorsement from some little paper in joseph, missouri, and the ku klux klan newspaper which they disowned, but those are the only endorsements they have gotten. my sense is that they see that as an advantage. the establishment is all against us. i'm not sure those endorsements matter at all. i am a little surprised, i thought the cumulative effect of all the republicans who endorsed clinton, i thought that would have an effect by now, but it has not. charlie: when you look at healthcare as an issue, how is that cutting? al: what trump has gotten away with is saying, i'm going to have a session

right after the election to repeal obamacare, and probably a slight majority of americans say, yeah, i'm for that, until the question becomes, what is he going to replace it with? they have gotten away with that. there are not people out there saying, ok, we are going to repeal obamacare, but does that mean we will lose protection for kids up to the age of 25 or people with pre-existing conditions? he has managed to avoid addressing a lot of issues. i think on balance, the affordable health care act is a slight plus for republicans. charlie: does the media deserve some responsibility for the fact that he has not addressed these issues? al: they do, and the worst offenses were early on. i blame cable television, some of the sunday shows. he was given privileges that

no other candidate had. he could do remote interviews. nobody else could do that. nobody really looked at his record until he was the nominee. i think there has been good coverage. the new york times, some networks have done a good job, but the media has let him get away with more than they should have. charlie: you and i are part of the media. why did it happen? al: because it was a great story. we are suckers for a great story. all the talk about ideological bias, that is so secondary. what the media falls prey to particularly with cable media, is and social a great story. and trump is a great story. this is a guy who says incredible things about people, he insults people with disabilities, he insults women, he insults a gold star mother, and that really kind of captured the attention of the media. i think there were voters out there who did not particularly like these insults but said, you know what he's not carefully

stage-managed the way other candidates are. charlie: he was a bigger and better performer onstage. al: yeah, and i think where the media let down is to say, ok, let's make the assumption he is going to be president, not that he is a great entertainer or great on stage, but if he's going to be president, what is he going to be like? what is he going to do? who is he going to surround himself with? that remains a blank slate. five days before the election. charlie: some republicans have separated themselves on that issue, because that is where they have the most concern. someone like bob gates. buzz scowcroft. al: two months ago scowcroft said, donald trump achieved something i thought was impossible. i said, what's that? he said, he is making me support clinton. i feel good about it because he is so dangerous. i think there are a lot of

national security types who feel that way. he has not offered any coherent national security policy. but also, some of the people around him. there is no one who gives some great confidence. charlie: yet despite all of this, he is within, perhaps, three points in the national poll. three points. al: he is within three points, charlie. if things break way, which they don't very often, but sometimes they do -- in 1980. charlie: you and others have said there is a bit more momentum and enthusiasm, and that counts for something. al: he does. the offset is whether this great clinton analytics data get out the vote effort, whether that is an offset. newwrote about that in the and times this morning sasha eisenberg, who works

for bloomberg politics, has followed this and written a book about it. he believes that if any state is 45-45, she wins 47-44, because of that infrastructure, technological advantage. we will see if that is the case. charlie: is it different from what obama had? al: it is similar to what obama had. she is as good as what obama had because she has hired all the obama people. and invested in that early romney, lagging behind obama.ged behind charlie: but there is some indication that trump has gone heavy on data in the last four or five months. al: they use a group that the mercer's support. again, this is not my area of expertise. talking to people like sasha eisenberg, there is a sense that there is a huge gap. and when you get on stage, and i have been to places like pennsylvania and north carolina, and you talk about offices, contacts, every indices we have shows that the democrats are better organized than the republicans. thatthat offset

enthusiasm you mentioned earlier? charlie: you talked about endorsements. what about surrogates? can barack obama bring out the african-american vote? can michelle obama bring out the african-american vote, which is lagging behind in comparison with president obama? al: i don't think they will get the african-american turnout that obama got in 2012, but i think it means in the closing days, both the president and the first lady can help with that. in north carolina, blacks have really liked behind. -- have really lagged behind. they had a big day esterday, so they are close to where they were four years ago, but not yet, and a lot of that was obama. obama was in north carolina yesterday. they are doing a lot of

robocalls to every household. michelle and the president are rock stars in the community, and i think they can help. i will tell you one person, if i were the clinton campaign -- they have never asked for my advice -- charlie: and he would never if they did. al: i will do it right now. if ohio is as close as people think, there is one person i would use in the community, and that is lebron james, who is probably more revered and anyone in that community in ohio than the president and the first lady. charlie: and he stood behind his indians to the bitter end. al: boy, that was a great to see that. charlie: there is this notion of fbi director comey. everybody has said it didn't and has not had an effect, those who have been told about it. on the other hand, it seems to confirm an impression they had in terms of their dislike of secretary clinton. the president said, i have no doubt that he had any intention to influence the election. the president later began to speak about how he made mistakes. al: i don't think jim comey man,s an honorable

intended to influence the election, and i think he made a terrible mistake, and i don't think he did it for partisan reasons. the problem with that argument is that he has argued that it has been revealed in the last couple of days, only weeks earlier that the fbi would not join the intelligence agencies in saying the russians are trying to influence the american elections, because he said that's too close to election day. you can't get the bureau involved in something that has that kind of implications a month before the election. intended or not, that's exactly what he did last friday. charlie: are we all going to be up very late on tuesday night? al: very late or very early. look, at 7:30, ohio and north carolina come in. if north carolina and ohio both go for clinton, i don't think there is any way that trump can win. if they both go for trump, we will have a long night. charlie: al hunt, thank you so much as always.

♪

charlie: david adjaye is here, principal architect and founder of adjaye associates. his firm is responsible for the moscow school of management and the sugar hill housing project in harlem. he was the lead architect for the national museum of african american history in washington, the highly anticipated museum that opened to the public in

september and is the final structure to be built on the national mall, completing its 200 year master plan. i am pleased to have david adjaye at this program. welcome. a big honor for us. this was not your regular commission. david: [laughs] no. charlie: tell me about the idea first expressed to you, and how you felt about it, and how it motivated you to do such a magnificent piece of work. david: it was an incredible competition that the smithsonian set in 2009. it was an international competition. we were thrilled to be on the short list. we got incredible briefing documents, and we were just inspired. i was deeply inspired by the fact that this museum actually had a chance to be built. what we were trying to do, and my team, adjaye associates, and myself, we

were trying to build a new kind of museum. the building would have an emotional meaning to the content. not to just have excellent architecture for its own something in,put but to marry the two. charlie: so the building became a part of the content. david: absolutely. charlie: and how did you make that happen? david: we decided we would actually directly not just look at architectural references, but also look at the history of the african-american community, the roots in africa, the migration, the slave trade, the settlement south of america, the migration to the urban cities, and the way in which they became very integrated into american society, and that became clues for deciding everything, from the shape

of the building which is inspired by -- to the detail of the metalwork, which is really inspired by the philip simmons ironwork in north carolina. and you go from the crypt underground, knowing the underground, and you rise up to the top as though you are looking through a tree at the landscape, where you get to the top and have a sense of the community's contribution to american culture. charlie: having been there before the opening and participated in a cbs news broadcast, was the idea, of how long this had been planned as a museum, before we get to the architecture, how it finally took president bush in the end, bush 43, how they had to go out and still raise money, how they had to reach out to the african-american community and find things that were part of the history, and then bring

them, and how it became something special to so many people. it became part of them to be engaged in the process of bringing all the things together. david: i think it's completely unprecedented. it really is a kind of people's museum, because most museums have precious collections. when we did the competition, there were very few objects collected, so over the space of eight years, the collection blossomed. hearing every other month or week, new things coming in, george clifton's slave ship arriving, all these incredible things. also, hearing from ordinary families about their voting slips that their grandmother gave them, things like that which were so emotional to see. charlie: so there is a

history of pain and suffering? david: absolutely. charlie: and there is also a history of celebration and achievement. david: exactly. i think it is really full arc. i think the reason we won the competition is because we refused to see the african-american community through only that lens. we said it is a story that is remarkable, a celebration. it goes from the arc of pain to celebration. there is a lot to be done, but also a lot has been achieved. charlie: and the challenge of being on the mall. your neighbor is the washington monument. which choices did you decide to make there? david: it was important that this incredible site, the palace on one side, and the memorial grounds on the other.

we were absolutely on the crux of those two areas, so i wanted to make a building that was both a monument and a museum, sort of looking both ways, acknowledging both issues. for instance, in the building's geometry, i became interested in making sure that we made relationships to washington's monument. we knew that we were going to be now photographed with that building forever. it could stand starkly against it, but i chose that we should rhyme with it. the 17 degree angle at the top of the pyramid of the building became the guiding angle. it has beenthat, how it fusessee and engages. charlie: and this is not white marble?

david: no, this is not a white marble building. [chuckling] that was from day one. we were clear that we wanted to add another quality to the classic architecture on the mall. after we won the competition, we did a dark building. one of the attractions was having a presence on the mall. we presented a project which had kind of a dark presence on the mall, and he felt that that resonated with finishing the spectrum of diversity in america. charlie: how did you choose that? david: for me, it was to do with the classical language. if you look at beautiful classical antiquities, bronze was kind of the great metal of the classical age. i thought, could we make a material that would speak to that casting tradition, because it is also the tradition that was very buoyant and powerful in the time of slavery. slavery, there were casters, where a

good portion of the community came from. there was a nice synergy that can be made with the narrative, to say that this casting tradition, which also becomes the tradition that african-americans are famous for in the south, can be connected. i felt bronze being the noble material seemed right. we cannot make it out of bronze for technical reasons, so it was aluminum with a bronze coating. charlie: what was the technical reason? too heavy? david: it was guaranteeing the structure. very complicated things now. this was a building on the mall, we had to deliver a guarantee. years.to stand for 50 charlie: couldn't put that in aluminum. david: exactly. aluminum is something that has

been tested, but bronze has not, so it was difficult to get that agreed. in the end, it became challenging technically, but also, aluminum offered environmental qualities that i became very attracted to. it was recycled, so it was sustainable, it was less onerous, and it also meant there was less pressure on the structure, it would be lighter, and in the end that was the right decision. charlie: also, the way you pronounce aluminum. david: al-ooh-men-i-um. charlie: that you are not an american. david: it's obvious in my office. [laughter] charlie: what is it -- you have in your mind that when they see it, especially african americans, want them to know and

feel? what? david: i wanted them to feel an emotional sense of inclusion. what's interesting is people look at the form and have said so many things to me. they say it looks like a boat, a crown. i've had these incredible narratives. overwhelmingly, what they have all felt is an incredible sense of joy. that was important to me. when we were doing the analysis, i said this motif speaks of uplift. geometries that go upwards really make you, as a human being, think of an emotional form. it is interesting to see how people have emotionally reacted to that. it works. charlie: there is the juxtaposition with or proximity to the washington monument. are you amazed with the layout of the plan? david: it is one of those magnificent landscape strategies. he was such a brilliant man. he saw way ahead. he allowed for the contemporary and classical language to all somehow work. he was a brilliant, brilliant master planner. charlie: what is the building on the other side? david: that is the federal triangle, the secretary of commerce's building. i know some of the teams in there, and they allowed us in.

to see from there the site. charlie: this one is at dusk, and this one was at dawn, correct? david: exactly. charlie: the next slide, the exterior of the museum from the washington monument, that's what it looks like from the washington monument. look at that. it's big. david: it's a 400,000 square-foot building. it is a significant smithsonian. it is not a half building. it is a proper museum. [laughter] >> it completes long fonts master plan. he planned this to be alongside of the mall, and he thought this would be the last building to be built. we completed the vision. charlie: this building is about a narrative, about a people and a country, and that's different.

david: i think that's the thing that i think is new, and it's about the 21st century. it's a very opportune thing right now. we all want to know each other'' stories. this building comes at such an opportune time for people to learn about each other's stories. charlie: there are the historical valleys, which are kind of a crypt, and the second part deals with migration from the south to urban centers, and the beginning of a professional class. you said you wanted the journey from the crypt to the corona to be a kind of migratory process towards the light. and then you go to the uppermost level, about the arts. tripartheid structure is meant to suggest the link

between symbolic form and the museum's content. there is always this link between the building and the content. david: this, to me, is what i was striving to do. it is a conversation about where architecture is now, and whether we can start to make buildings that have meaning rather than buildings which are scientific techniques. i'm trying to see if there is a way in which we can bring culture and the narratives of our time back into the technologies we have, which are amazing. we can do so much. this building is the first test of that. charlie: when you sit down to think about what it is you want to be inspired by, how do you go about that? david: i am one of those who have lightbulb moments. charlie: most people don't. the idea of a great moment is overdone. david: i'm a great reader, a great researcher. i have a very large library. when i need to work, i just dive into information. if i am not getting information, i go to places. charlie: the internet is a very

powerful tool. david: the internet is a very powerful tool to search the world. but i am very haptic. i need to be in places. i went down to new orleans and just wandered around the incredible architecture there. i was in benin not long before the competition started. these things influenced. and as it gels in my mind -- usually early in the morning is when sketching starts. i am a 5:00 sketcher. right?: is that david: everything happens at that time. charlie: you must nap if you get up at that time. david: i get up at around 4:30, which drives my wife crazy. charlie: is that when you are fullest? david: my mind is -- charlie: how do you sketch? david: it is a series of marks. there is a kind of form. it is figurative. trying to make pictures

but i am trying to clarify in my mind the intent. charlie: was there a moment when you knew you had it? david: yes. i was drawing, and i kind of made a sketch of a building within a building with light pouring in. i looked at it and i was like, oh my god, there it is. i looked at the reference image i was looking at, and then i looked at the image of the structure, i went, oh my god, there it is. i basically then sent that sketch to my team and said, i think i have it, what do you think? they went, whoa. thisie: everyone said, wow is it. david: that's when you realize this thing is not just about you. charlie: and that is acceleration, pushing you forward. you know where you want to go. david: exactly. charlie: what did you do in moscow? david: i built the harvard business school, the first national business school for the country. charlie: so you are doing stuff all over the world. you are from africa, lived in the middle east, lived in europe. all those places shaped you? david: yes, i think so.

i think you are a product of where you have been and where you have been steeped in. i think that is part of it. charlie: why architecture? david: i wanted to become a chemist. it throws everyone off. my brother is a fantastic geneticist. genetic scientist. dusseldorf. he is a biologist. i thought, i want to do chemistry and be great at it. charlie: what do your dad and mom do? david: my dad is a diplomat, my awhile a secretary for and became amy dad professional housewife.

science was exciting. the family was diplomatic, business, lawyers, accountants, things like that. charlie: so you are the architect in the family? david: i am the first creator we know of. charlie: and you also said you are searching for a way to produce. david: yeah, i was very fascinated by art. when i moved away from science, you know, an art teacher was mey instrumental in guiding -- i went to art school, and i thought i wanted to be an artist, but then i became very scared, because i wanted the dialogue in a really active way, and i also wanted to have a professional career. i did not know how to manifest being an artist. i felt scared about the solo world of being by yourself, working on things, and whether that would be a career. whether i could live in the world with that. charlie: what was it that made you want to be an artist that serves you being an architect? david: if i am honest, art is probably my greatest inspiration, from the classical

period to contemporary art. charlie: where does this go? becauseall of a sudden and because of the celebration of this, people are saying, i need me some david adjaye. david: it's very nice. we have incredible calls. we are working on a fantastic project in san francisco, our first master plan of the old shipyard site, which is really amazing. we are doing our first tower in new york, which is really exciting. onht next to the tower williams street. a very large tower. we are doing a studio museum in harlem, which is the next big cultural institution we are doing. very excited about that.

we are also working all over the world. we are doing a museum in san antonio, collections based. charlie: you also are doing in harlem affordable housing in harlem. david: yes, we did a beautiful project for broadway housing, an incredible foundation organization that does work for giving homeless people into their first homes and helping them become integrated in society. i was so inspired by that as a new york model. that was the first project i wanted to launch myself in new york with. something that was about butting dignity and power high design for this community. charlie: homes around the world, but where do you go when you need to simply retreat? david: my family. charlie: thank you for coming. david adjaye. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: carole bayer sager is here. she is an academy award winning lyricist. she has written for artists like michael jackson and whitney houston. carly simon,ne, and many others.

here are some of her award-winning songs. ♪ >> well hello there good old friend of mine >> but i know that i can't go back anymore >> time for me to do it on my own >> i'm on my own why did it end this way >> being in love makes me cry, cry, cry >> ♪ charlie: you just said to me "the prayer" is one of your favorites. carole: it is. the song i wrote with david

foster is one of the best songs we have written, i've written. the lyric, lead us to a place, guide us with your grace, is a theme where -- although it was written for a young girl in an animated film going off on a dangerous adventure, i think it is a theme that went through my life from day one, which was not feeling safe. but back to the record for a moment, when you put the voices of celine dion and andrea bocelli on this song that i thought was good, it suddenly took on a whole other dimension that i did not know was in the song because their voices are so close to heaven. charlie: that's what it is supposed to do, isn't it?

t is supposedalis i to do, isn't it? carole: yes, but not everybody moves you to a place where your heart is almost overflowing, where you could feel a tear or feel -- the prayer ended up being a record that people get married too. at memorial services and funeral services. i hear it at weddings, and funerals, and i think it is because it touches a very deep place inside of people, because with so many of us, we are wanting that feeling of safety. charlie: you wanted it your whole life, but you did not feel safe until you made it? carole: no, i made it well before that. marriage ook whole a backdraft. i was always insecure. i never felt like i was enough.

i pretty much never felt like i was enough my whole life. i think that's why i started by adding a simple e to carol to make it carole with a e, because it looked a little prettier. and then accumulated a series of names with my life. neil simon called me to girl with too me "the girl many names." i could have been a law firm. i think it comes down to if you felt loved as a child, if you felt criticized. i had an overly critical mom who did not know how to be nurturing. charlie: what gave you the capacity to write a hit song? what is that talent, what is that skill, and where does it come from? we just saw a whole list of great songs by you. carole: they weren't really the great ones. charlie: what were the great ones? carole: "that's what friends are for," because we raised so much money for aids research.

but i love the song, too. charlie: what else? carole: i think "you and me, we wanted it all" is one of my better lyrics. allenrank sinatra, peter recorded it. "you and me, we wanted it all, passion without pain, sunshine without rainy days. look how all our dreams came true, see how i've got me and baby, you've got you. through it all, a little thing called love, a feeling deep inside." i think i love music my whole life, songs. i listened to them as long as i could remember. i wrote lyrics as a little girl

at camp. it is something i always knew i could do and wanted to do. my feelings could be expressed through -- i mean, some songs early on were like songs to my future self. i wrote a song with melissa manchester in the 1970's called "home to myself." i was not home to myself yet, but the words were. today i hear it and i go, yeah. charlie: what were the great collaborations for you? carole: i would say peter allen. incredibly underrated songwriter talent, in my opinion. marvin hamlisch, who was a beyond wordscile at the keyboard.

writing with him, and with peter, was joyful. they were so quick, they were so alive. and burt, but burt in a different way. i acknowledged him as a genius. but his process was not an easy one. he labored over which chord to use. he would go, do you like this chord, or do you like this chord? hey, which? i would go, ok, i like that chord. he did not care what i liked. he just needed me in the room, so he could go back to this chord, this chord. i mean, it was hours. but when we got to writing the melody, he was like, this is my melody, don't change a note, whereas everyone else i had written with would say, yeah, that's a good melody you just

saying, carole. line, what do you flow?"f this there was a back-and-forth. with burt, the perfect example was when we were writing "that's what friends are for." he played this, and i thought, ok. about "i neverow way."t i'd feel that "carole, i need that note." he went to the piano and went,

and i never thought i would feel this way. i thought that note made the song better, and made the lyric better by accident, because now you are coming in on the middle of a song. charlie: would you tell him that? carole: i have told him that many times. charlie: did working together destroy the relationship? but i: it did not help, there would have been a relationship without me being this very hot songwriter at the time and burt being cooled off at the time. charlie: did he come to you because he needed help in this work? or the sheer fact that you think that, maybe, says -- carole: says that there would be problems. charlie: for there may have been a bit of an insecurity. carole: a bit? [laughter] bit?e: a a bit.

charlie: you were worried about him and other women. you were worried about -- carole: when i met burt, i think i began to make him up and pointed to do some kind of an illusion. he was driving a big green lincoln, and i thought his real car was in the shop. he was living in a one-bedroom apartment on wilshire boulevard with a piano and a sofa and sheet music all over the floor, and i thought, oh, they are probably fixing his new home for him. you know? and in fact, it's like maya angelou says, when someone shows you who they are, believe him. burt showed me who he was, and he went, oh, let's have this -- and i went, " oh, let's have this house in bel air, let's have elizabeth taylor as our best friend, and let's have our

parties." burt, whatever it was i fell in love with was his voice. he spoke in the rhythms in which he wrote a song. he would say like, hey, carole, i don't want to be known for the parties i gave. i want to be known for my songs. i said, ok, let's throw less parties. charlie: yes, but that's understandable. carole: yes, understandable but we were

not really meant to be together, other than to probably write the songs, because the songs were good. clearly we were meant to be together so that we could have christopher, our 30-year-old son. burt goes to the beat of his own drum. charlie: do the lyricists have an elevated respect for the composer? carole: i have a respect for the composer, particularly when i get the luxury of writing with such great composers. but i think they have a respect for the lyricist. it's that wonderful story when mrs. hammerstein met mrs. rogers at a party. you know that story, with mrs. rogers saying, oh, my husband wrote "oh, what a beautiful morning," and mrs. hammerstein says, no, my husband wrote, oh, duh duh duh duh my husband wrote, "oh what a beautiful morning." [laughter]

carole: i think i began to truly live my life when i met bob. charlie: so what changed? carole: going back to the original thing we talked about, with the prayer, bob made me feel safe. charlie: why? carole: because he was real. he had his feet on the ground, and he loved me. he did not love me because i or wrote hitgoose lyrics, and he did not love me for any reason other than he seemed to love me. he not only loved me, he was a man who, when christopher was five years old and said something not very respectful to me, said, i heard a voice go, excuse me, that's no way to talk to your mother, and i looked around, because i had never heard that in all the years that christopher was growing up until then. i mean, he was a man who set boundaries. he is a man who can love. he is a man who is fair and decent, and i never had that in my life.

charlie: and what did you leave out of this? "they're playing our song." carole: i left out certain things about my relationship with marvin hamlisch, because i felt he is one of america's great composers. i loved him as a friend years after our relationship was over, and there was no reason to say things that someone might feel bad about reading. charlie: you did not need to say that in order to paint your picture of marvin? carole: no, not at all. charlie: was it hard to write? carole: yeah. charlie: how did you go about it? carole: i went about it because someone said, you should write a book. i went downstairs, started to think about it. i thought, you know, everybody compares their insides to other people's outsides.

i thought my book could help people. forget about all the great collaborations and songs and the amazing artists i got to write with. first of all, one of the things i realized when i started the book was, oh my god, i've got a really big life, and i did not know it was a big life because i was living it. when i was able to live it. and then i thought, you know, carole, you should tell your story, your journey, not just the musical part, because there are people you can help. and that is why i decided to write the book. charlie: so many songwriters want to be vocalists. carole: i guess i did. i recorded three records, but i always knew that no one was going to ask to hear my version of "over the rainbow." i had the luxury because i wrote the song. charlie: you had a number one hit in australia. carole: i did, a song i wrote

with bette midler and bruce roberts. called, "you're moving out today." bette midler used to say to me, why are you always using the same words? home, light, friendship? some new words. she pulled out books with words in them, and we wrote this song which was a laundry list of why this guy thrown out of the house should take with him. ability to write gave you a life, and you say it gave you a big life. carole: not only did it give me a life, it saved my life. charlie: because? carole: because i could have

been in a back ward somewhere. i was crazy frightened. frightened of bombs falling, frightened of diseases, where i was sure i was dying of leukemia, then multiple sclerosis. you would not want to be inside of me, and you would not want to be with me. it.pt nobody saw it was all inside, because on the outside, i appeared to be a friendly, lovely young girl. and when nighttime fell, i was terrified to sleep in my own bed. --ean, look it made me who i am today. and i had a great healing moment with my mother when she was dying of cancer. i made a decision that i was going to love her unconditionally, no matter what button she pushed in me. i was going to try to see if i could do that. for the most part, i succeeded, and she lived in our home the last year of her life.

and she --\ she -- illness she for her was so happy, because she was being loved and was getting the attention she never got. charlie: it's your story, the story of your life, the story of your insecurities, the story of your successes, the story of your big life. what else do you want to add to that life now? carole: i want to give back. i want to give more to other people. i spent an awful lot of time giving to myself. i don't know what form that will take. i do work with the los angeles county museum of art, but i don't know. i do say in the book that i have a need to be creative, so maybe something on broadway, maybe, i don't know. charlie: but you want it.

carole: i need to create. ♪

oliver: we are coming to you from new york. how the election ate the nfl tv ratings. taking on the man sysyphian task of trying to get republicans to look at climate policies. oliver: this might be the world's most ambitious cryonics company. "bloomberg businessweek" starts now. carol: we are here with ellen pollock, editor-in-chief. you write about sam's club in china. it's not the