announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: syrian president bashar al-assad met with western journalists and think tank people in damascus earlier this week. he insisted his country's social fabric was better. he ruled out political changes and declared he planned to remain president until his term ends in 2021. it is believed at least 500,000 syrians have been killed and nearly half the country's population have been driven from their homes during the war so far.

dexter filkins was among the journalists who met with assad. i am pleased to have him just back from damascus. how did this happen? exactly who was in the room and what were the ground rules? dexter: the syrian government, president assad, because they are feeling pretty good about themselves -- they are feeling stronger than they had at any point. charlie: that is because of the support of the russians and hezbollah. dexter: they had a conference in damascus. they invited a bunch of journalists, think tank people to come. from that, they just selected a couple of people to come and meet the president. i didn't know that was going to happen. charlie: you went to the conference and ended up in the meeting with him. who else was in the meeting? dexter: some think tank people.

three to four. we all got into a van and we go into a secure area with lots of checkpoints and blast walls. suddenly, we were at his house. charlie: he welcomed you to his house? you sit down. tell me what is the status on the ground as we speak. dexter: you mentioned at the top of the show what an utterly catastrophic war it is. a half-million dead, whole state is disintegrated. half the country is displaced from their homes. the migration crisis. it is the great catastrophe of our time. i think everyone thought, most of the world, probably assad himself thought he was going to go around 2012, 2013. when you have seen since them is massive intervention by the iranians, hezbollah and finally

by the russians which has been very decisive. charlie: do they simply support hezbollah? dexter: they are people on the ground. they are directing the fight. he's busy in iraq right now. they've really, i think it is fair to say, changed the situation on the ground so probably pretty close to 70% of the population lives in areas controlled by the government. probably something close to three quarters of the people left in syria. so many people have left. charlie: what is happening in aleppo? the russians said that he would have some kind of cease-fire. dexter: all of that is a prelude to what is medieval fight to the death.

eastern aleppo is cut off, under siege by assad's government. they have been bombing it relentlessly, bombing hospitals. it is horrible. essentially in the few days of cease-fire announced by the russians was the view a few days. anyone in the ones to leave, get out. after that, we are going in. charlie: retaking all of it? dexter: yeah, i think we should stand back for a second and look at what happened. the goal for assad and the russians is to capture all of aleppo which was the largest city in syria. essentially you have most of the population under government control. you have this long strip of cities going from aleppo to damascus over to the mediterranean. then, isis is relentlessly being crushed and squeezed in the east. raqqa will probably fall soon.

whoever becomes president of the united states is essentially going to be faced with we now control most of the country. charlie: we need a government to regain control of the country. that is what you think the president of the united states would face. dexter: assad finds himself in a very strong position. i think it is why he had a bunch of journalists there. they haven't had any american journalists in syria for years. charlie: they have not let any american journalists in? dexter: they have not been granting visas to anyone. in two years, nothing. charlie: just to get into the country? dexter: to get into the government controlled parts of syria. the only way to get in -- it's possible. basically, the only journalists

getting in have been going to the northeast and a few people are still braving the turkish border which is nuts. it is a dangerous place. charlie: i want to go back to raqqa. dexter: i was just there. charlie: what did assad say? you asked him what he thought about being called a war criminal? dexter: yeah, he -- it is kind of anti-climactic when you go to a meeting like this because you are expecting something more. i think it is sort of the effect. he's not -- he may be a monster but he does not look like it. it is like a clerk or a lawyer or a banker. it's slightly unexpected. so, we were sitting together in

a small room. i asked him about being a war criminal. he said i don't take it personally. the west is against me. i've become a headline for them. i'm the bad guy and the rebels are the good guys. he went on to say he painted this kind of worldview very different from anything that you and i would recognize. isis is a creature of the united states. the united states, turkey, saudi arabia are supporting isis. he is holding the line against isis. charlie: what his is argument that makes isis a creation of the united states and saudi arabia? dexter: this is a story they tell themselves. you have the united states, saudi arabia, turkey -- it is true they have been supported rebel groups who are fighting assad.

the united states is not supporting isis. american soldiers are dying. charlie: the al-nusra group? dexter: maybe not primarily, but there are so many groups fighting syria. you have al-nusra, the al qaeda affiliate. charlie: we support supporting them. dexter: we don't support al-nusra, but a lot of the money and arms that have been pumped into syria has gone to them. that allows president assad and the syrian government to say look, the united states and all of their allies are supporting the evil isis. charlie: they say that because you are fighting me and therefore supporting them because my enemy is them. dexter: basically. charlie: it is really rebel

forces trying to overthrow him. dexter: this is not a civil war. there is no great grievance the syrian people have against this government. this is a war driven by foreigners. charlie: it is in fact true after the arab spring and he engaged in the civil war, that is when al qaeda and isis rushed over there because they thought they could take advantage of the situation. dexter: yes. the war now is 5.5 years long. the war looked very different in 2012 than it does now. i think the argument, we will never know -- the argument for western intervention back then was always let's support the moderate groups before the crazies get there. i think that moment has passed. charlie: that was a critical moment? dexter: if there was a window, it was early on, 2012, 2013. there was that pretty critical

moment when hillary clinton, secretary of state, petreus and gates all said let's arm the rebels and do a big push -- the moderate rebels. the president basically said no. charlie: does he continue to say no? dexter: the united states is doing some stuff, but it is not decisive in any way. i think the saudis and the turks have been doing much more than we have been doing. the fact remains that today, the strongest rebel groups by far are isis and al-nusra. they don't like each other, but they are groups we would never support ever. so, that is how assad can view himself as sort of that.

charlie: the state department says we don't have any leverage on the ground so there is no leverage. dexter: i think that is where we are. i think assad today is stronger than he has been at any point since this war began. charlie: what is vladimir putin win? dexter: he wins influence. charlie: they owed him. dexter: the goal of the united states was to remove assad. president obama said that many times because the government believes he is the person driving the violence. i don't think assad is going anywhere. he is entrenched. he is stronger than he is ever been. he has the russians on his side. charlie: there was a piece this

week saying the solution was to split it up. dexter: it is already broken. the question is will it ever come together? it is like iraq. it is interesting how all of this connects, syria and iraq. you have the big battle that is happening now in mosul where the united states is supporting the iraqi government fighting mosul to expel isis from mosul. i think what is likely to happen, let's say mosul falls which isis is basically driven out. what happens then? i think a lot of the isis guys will retreat into syria. i think a lot of the iranian-backed shi'a coalitions fighting in iraq against isis are going into syria. so, essentially, that battle will move into syria.

assad actually talked about that. charlie: what did he say? it was going to happen? dexter: again, he was kind of -- it was conspiracy, but he said the whole americans fighting isis is all theater. what they will do is push isis into syria. charlie: the iraqis are leading the fight in mosul? dexter: yeah, they are. the americans are in the sky dropping bombs. what is really problematic about what is happening in mosul is you have this really large number of shi'ite militias fighting on the side of the iraqi government, the united states. trained and directed by the iranians.

the republican guard is on the ground in northern iraq. charlie: will they be on the ground in syria? dexter: they have been, absolutely. i think what is likely to happen, mosul will probably fall. isis will be pushed out and then the iranians have been trying to get an overland route to syria for years. they were pushing on the kurds to give it to them and they said no. charlie: therefore, they would move right into lebanon. dexter: if you look at the map, you basically have lebanon and the mediterranean, syria and assad, and then you have iraq. you eventually have this iranians fighting for many years. it is looking pretty good for them right now. again, we are mixed up in this -- i think that if there is a legitimate criticism to be made

about what is happening in mosul right now it is that the united states is fully knowledgeable of the role of the iranian militias fighting isis. a lot of these guys -- you can name these people -- the leader of an iranian-backed coalition. he's iraqi. charlie: iranian militias or are they shia militias? they shia militias? dexter: he kidnapped and executed seven american soldiers in 2007. these are people we have been trying to kill. charlie: do we have an option? could we have kept them out? dexter: sure. all the options are horrible. charlie: it has always been a

problem with the iraqi prime ministers. dexter: it is a mess. i think if you were sitting in the white house and say we have to get isis out of mosul, how? the iraqi army is a joke. they disintegrated. charlie: the brunt of the fighting is coming from iraqi shia militias? they are doing the brunt of the fighting? dexter: a lot of the fighting. typically what has happened like an fallujah, you have american airstrikes. iraqi special forces who are very good. and then, you have iraqi army and militias. what is really troubling to me is what is going to happen in mosul once they go into the city. they will be able to go inside the city and then what will happen?

you will have these very sectarian militias going into a sunni city and being pushed by a very extremist regime in tehran. the americans will be hard-pressed to control that. that is the problem. isis are evil. we've made this kind of ugly deal. that is kind of what we have done. charlie: where are the turks? are they fighting? do they want to fight? dexter: they are trying to maintain their influence. they have crossed the border into syria and iraq. charlie: is it possible that mosul go? dexter: i think so. it is a question of how long it will take.

i think a long time. charlie: what is a longtime? dexter: weeks, months. charlie: you think it is possible if they take mosul rather than later, they can then take raqqa? dexter: i think that is the plan. charlie: i've often wondered if that was what the president really wanted to do. the battle against isis and we retook mosul and all the land they had. they have no caliphate, they have nothing. they need to send people into the urban areas of western europe and the united states. dexter: what has extinguished isis all the groups that came before it? they held territory. mosul is the biggest city they have. the second largest city in iraq. raqqa is their capital. those are the two poles. what happens then?

i think probably what happens is isis retreats and melts away into the desert, do some urban pockets and essentially becomes what al qaeda in iraq was. charlie: telling them to fight to the last person. dexter: yeah, which is interesting because a lot of people thought baghdadi was dead, but he sounds alive and well. charlie: how did the conversation end with assad? dexter: i think he made it clear to us that he is not going anywhere. he talks about this election they had in 2014 where he got something like 90% of the vote. he said i'm the captain of the ship.

the captain of the ship does not abandon, does not jump overboard in the middle of a storm. i'm steering the ship. charlie: is by definition the reality we are looking at mean the obama policy failed? dexter: there are two policies. one is syria and the other is iraq. we've kind of -- charlie: this was about syria. dexter: we are preserving the iraqi state and holding that together. charlie: or was the president right? dexter: i think president obama has made it clear that he thinks if we try to do more in syria, we are just going to make it worse. you get yourself involved down in the weeds in the middle east and you are just going to get tangled up and make it worse, but president obama has been very clear assad must go. that is the overall objective of american policy and has been.

charlie: since the airstrikes began. dexter: i think he believes the assad government is the root of the problem. assad has not gone anywhere. the united states has clearly failed in that objective, i think. charlie: the second paragraph of your piece -- "in the 5.5 years since the uprising began, it has been the most catastrophic war of our young century and assad is the most vilified national leader in the world. as many as 400,000 syrians are dead and nearly half the country's population has been driven from their homes. hundreds of thousands have gone to europe, hundreds of thousands have drowned in the mediterranean. most of the government's in the west including the united states

have severed diplomatic relations. president obama has asked him repeatedly to step down. he has stayed in power things in large part to the west's reluctance to involve itself in the conflict and military intervention on behalf of russia, aleppo. it is largely in ruins. the government is besieging the last enclave outside its grip. many people look at as the catastrophe of our time." dexter: i think so. let's say assad stays. what do you have in syria? it is broken, it is completely fragmented. assad may have the population centers but half the country has been driven from their homes. i don't know how he, the russians, us, i don't know how you put the country back

together. charlie: thank you for coming, dexter filkins. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: it is the final weekend before the presidential election and the only thing certain is voters will go to the polls on tuesday. where is the race going into its final days? jonathan karl of abc news talked with his friend mike allen of politico.

jonathan: it's great to be here on the friday before election day with mike allen. let's look at how this race is right now. we will start with trump tower. mike: if you are in trump tower, you finally feel you have oxygen. the comey letter has left trump off the map. republicans are still very skeptical, but they are quite optimistic. jonathan: how does the trump team think they will win this? mike: they have what he has had since the beginning which is momentum and excited. going into this crazy weekend, if you have momentum and optimism, suddenly it means less and the national mood means a lot.

i know you are hearing that same thing out of brooklyn, the clinton campaign headquarters. they know they cannot mess this up, but there is a lot of comfort with what is going on. they feel like this is bait. people are not changing their minds and there is four reasons that clinton remains the favorite despite what you see on the web or have in your conversations. one is early voting which has been favoring democrats. second, it is a big theory of the brooklyn team that we have democrats coming home to vote for a democrat and republicans voting for republicans. as long as that happens, as long as trump does not have some swing voters, she is fine. you have been out traveling the country. trump does not have the

infrastructure and a get out the vote on the ground effort that any republican would want him to have. fourth, there is a strong feeling among hillary voters that they are going to be able to take the votes they have, the early votes, and the natural electorate voter advantage she has. 40% of people will vote before election day. jonathan: my sense is that the clinton team feels a lot more optimistic about florida than they did a couple of weeks ago. mike: one of the ways we see that is from the republican senate polls. that is the best window in what is happening. they have real operations, real polling. it is state after state, including florida and ohio. we see the republican candidates like marco rubio in florida are

way ahead of trump. that is another reason that trump could win. why do people go to the races? the day after, november 9, who are the republicans who will be standing tall? jonathan: who is the head of the pack? mike: i think you want to be somebody that is not in the middle of this. senator tom cotton of arkansas, senator ben sasse, a nikki haley. the one person who was involved in this who is getting good buzz from republicans and could be better off is mike pence. he's the one person that is around washington. he could be in a better place. he said he was proud to be donald trump's running mate.

the general election of 2020, a trump-clinton rematch. he loves being part of a movement and he will form a trump party within the gop. if hillary survives, it will be trump-clinton 2. jonathan: one of the other subplots is chris christie and bridgegate. >> assume there is presidential, less likely to be attorney general. governor has not been accused of anything, has not admitted to anything, but under testimony, it was all pointing to a very widespread contention within his inner circle that he knew about the bridge closing. been --people who have

who have been very much vindicated by this verdict -- that makes that top job for him in washington much more difficult. >> all right, mike allen.

is here.jon bon jovi

this year marked the 33rd anniversary of the lead singer for a legendary rock band joby. they have sold -- get this -- more than 130 million records. their 14th studio album "this house" is -- "this house is not out this friday. here is a listen to the title track from the new album. this house is not for sale this house is not for sale ohh i'm coming home i'm coming home this house is not for sale i'm coming home i'm coming home

i'm coming home sale ♪home is not for jovi becoming as known for his philanthropic work as his rock star status. soul foundation aims to break the cycle of poverty and bonuses around the nation and they are indeed doing something about it. i am least to welcome jon bon jovi back to this table. welcome. : thank you, charlie. charlie: 33 years. i know. i burned the gray hairs. 33 years. charlie: what is the secret, the magic potion for the staying power? magic think there is no

potion. hard work always comes first. being true to who you are is important so an audience that grows up with you remains with you and those who got off the train because what happened, the next generation can come along with the certification of those who came before it. charlie: we'll get more into be trueum, you have to to who you are, but you also have to change. jon: within those parameters -- why i use the word truth and my integrity matters, i have been around so long, fads and fashions have come and gone. three generations of oily band generations have come -- boy band generations have come and gone. rap music has come and gone. i never jumped on those bandwagons as they were becoming more popular. as i grew up, i would not try to rewrite "you give love a bad

on a prayer" --' i was 35 years old. charlie: do you hate to play it when you're on tour? jon: no, no, i don't hate it. charlie: you know all of the words. [laughter] jon: you take it out of context, but the truth is every artist is very proud of his new record. you are very anxious to play it. that is why i did these for theater shows to play only the new record, only the new stuff, and it was received well. i have been blessed, having written or cowritten a number of big hits, and yes, "livin'on a prayer is that song -- on a is that song. i wrote it. i know the words. charlie: there are people looking down at the prompter. jon: sure.

they are there for me as well. not because i don't know the words. charlie: protection. jon: when i'm doing another show, the last thing i am thinking about is what is going on. i am thinking about having a drink with you, because in truth, i am having such a great the minutia.t in if i hear a note the wrong, that is when i come back to earth. otherwise i become that thing -- charlie: and that's the performance. jon: it's fantastic. it's spiritual. charlie: and you are at one with the audience? jon: absolutely. but on another plane. charlie: why is it your band in the rock 'n roll hall of fame? jon: you know, charlie, the truth is, we have met all of the requisites, and if you really want to be brutally honest, some of us have friends in the business, and some of us have friends that are not such good

friends and there are people who are envious and jealous and i've had a couple of falling outs with him of those people and they are going to hold it over my head. look, statistics speak alone. the music has spoken for generations. i won't get in while these guys are there. it's ok. charlie: you can outlive them? well, rock 'n roll was founded on rebellion and i would rather have the integrity of knowing -- charlie: who are these people do? are they musicians? jon: no, but they are in charge of the voting, the secret little ballots. but the truth of the matter, none of our memorabilia is in there. i have taken it all out and i had a falling out with them, with the people there. more than one. charlie: what did they do? to: just enough to get me say that, because i'm not a

reactionary, i really don't behave like that. have our legacy and in my body of work was enough that, you know, you got under my skin and i had to say what i had to say. i don't regret it. you used to make an album which had a beginning, middle, and an end. jon: that's right. charlie: what is the status today? jon: you return to everything is every thing that is old is new again. it will never return to the heyday. charlie: the heyday was what? the 1980's, the early 1990's when you could sell records. this was the gold mine of the business. charlie: what killed it? jon: in my opinion, going to the well one to many times, asking the consumer to keep buying the record in the formats that came

out. we all needed the realtor real to give us the cassette, the eight track, the cd. but all i'm saying is the art form should have been presented as a whole. and if this art form was presented with a beginning, middle, and it is, i don't care how you distribute it. at if you broke it up and you say, jonny, it's about quantity -- no, no, no, it's about quality. track seven is what inspires the next generation to write the next single. i was chastised for it. i stand on my principles. a book without the middle chapter does not tell you the whole story, and the arts are interdependent. are you a songwriter happens to perform or a performer who happens to write songs? very goodnk i'm a performer, but my joy comes from songwriting. at songwriting second,ecording

performing third. i do enjoy the interaction with an audience, but i'm not an applause junkie. i know those who are. i don't live for that. riding a song to me -- righting a song to me is the closest thing to immortality. if you are blessed with a song that has been on a chart for a long time, that is going to outlive anything else i do. what did you think about dylan and the nobel prize? amen. i posted a picture right away. congratulations to the master. charlie: songwriting can be poetry, poetry can be -- jon: think what he did for history. he is a literary genius, and he put it in a manner that the young kids and the old people could understand him a you know? and it spoke to many generations for over 50 years. charlie: was he an influence? jon: most definitely.

i can tell you a great story about my influence on the "desire" record. you would have to go with your parents to the state car ourection station, which in community was located near the state prison, and beyond that "all was ruben"hurricane carter. and listen"desire," to a man named hurricane in that place and had to sit there for hours on end after having seen "scared straight," that was magic on top of magic. this was talking about a man written by a man and telling a story. yeah, he was a huge influence. charlie: what else? who else? jon: a singer-songwriter foremost -- i'm lucky to have been from a place where i love the singer-songwriter, but i also love the performer. of everything.e

we are a product of our environment. , thee -- it was the stones beatles. and, you know, sure. had thee of my era, original ben halen, the original journey not broken not, perhaps we would not be as big as we become. charlie: it created an opportunity for you. jon: sure. charlie: how would you characterize your band when you started? jon: just a rock band. charlie: just a rock band? jon: sure, we did not want to be pigeonholed. if i have the regrets, it is calling an album "new jersey," because no one compared us to anyone in new jersey before then. there's a bigger horizon. charlie: is there any place you don't tour? jon: i have been to most places.

manager said we would pay to use the toilet and use our own change, and he was right. charlie: that's how much you want to play. but you would rather be on the stage and in the studio? jon: no, no, not necessarily. no, the opposite. i like to write the song. it comes to life and you go out and share. charlie: but it comes to life with an audience -- jon: it's a second life. charlie: when you are on stage, after you have recorded and performed it, that is when you say, here, it's yours. it's yours. you determine what the lyric means to you, and it takes on a different life. hearing it come to life, hearing the band count 1, 2, 3, 4, that is when the note is worth something. that to me is worth something. charlie: is this a dark album? jon: no, i don't think so. where did you --

charlie: where did you get the photograph? jon: from a magazine. i was thumbing through a magazine in a guy took that picture just before the internet, before photoshop. that spoke volumes to me. it was really about the band. i saw that picture and i said, here is an old house, deep rooted, lots of history, but it's in disarray. it just spoke to me, and right away, i started saying these four walls have a story to tell. charlie: you say that you have a lot to say and nothing to prove. so. yeah, i think i certainly earned my place in this business. in this business, in this business. charlie: where do you think your places? jon: well, were very active -- charlie: with the great rock 'n roll bands? jon: no, no, i would never be that brazen. no, no. try to sell again

anything else. when you hear a bon jovi record, that sounds like a bon jovi language -- out bon jovi record. is the goal. you get to a place where you say i want to select the bon jovi record, and that is where we are. whatie: can you describe it sounds like, or do you just know? jon: sure. big, optimistic, powerful choruses that are timeless and classic and can reach a lot of people from different walks of life. it comes the night now i've got a right now with the lights out here come the lights out will have the last round ♪ charlie: is there a theme? jon: yes. integrity and rebirth. charlie: rebirth? jon: yes, most of italy. there are couple of things that happen to me. there was a member change in the

band, richie sambora left the band when he shows into the last tour. i had a temporary falling out with my label after being the biggest selling artist on the label, but we came to terms and figured out a future. i was distraught -- charlie: you stayed with the label? jon: yeah, with my label. the place i called home for all those years. once again, i was at a crossroad. and the answer was in the pen. after three years i have some thing to say. differents this because richie is not part of this question mark jon: it's different because the personality is different, but it certainly was going to go on. bon jovi's sound is here, but the lyrics -- not even the lyrics. we were 50/50 if we wrote a song together. charlie: how do you cowrite a song? jon: me or you come in with an

idea for a title. i've got an idea for you go back and forth. these sound better than those. the bmi, oftentimes the guitar. yeah, it's very symbol. absolutely the same. charlie: would use at their alone or with somebody there? the songs i of wrote by myself on this record and some with john shanks. charlie: produced by john shanks. mixed by michael brower. jon: yeah, and new york guy. they mix, yeah, he was wonderful. charlie: the opening lines of the title track to say "these four walls have a story to tell, these doors are off the hinges." what do these lines mean? jon: here is the history and

everyone is good to have their viewpoint of what has happened on this ride, on this roller coaster. it as the song goes on, says, this heart, the soul, this house is not for sale. in my integrity was called into question. did richie have a fight with you? was this about money? no, no, no. charlie: what was it about? things to deale with, and that's for him to discuss at some time, some place in his life and he is decided not to do this anymore at this level. and it's unfortunate. but i promise you, on your show and i have said publicly for years and it was never disputed, there was never a fight. he just didn't show up. there's a show that night. my phone rang. charlie: saying? jon: guess what? oh, no. charlie: did you expect it? jon: no. charlie: 20,000 people waiting. had to play that

night, so the singer had to play a lot more it's our, and we pulled it off. and i called the guy to replace he was in rehab, and i said, you remember last time? i need you again. there is a plane on the way. do you still have the courts? he was wonderful. charlie: and he could just fill right in. jon: yeah, the last, prior when richie was in rehab, you know, you can't stop a tour. there's people counting on you. there's families coming on you. there's a record company counting on you. charlie: one of the interesting things about you, you do have a sense of business. jon: true. are.ie: you really you think about owning an nfl team. you count on your friends some of the most successful as his people around. you enjoy their company. you know their language. jon: well, i'm not ready five years old -- my point is,, but

people are paying money for us to show up, and we have to show up. jon: that is most of philly the truth, but that commitment to the people who work for you and their families -- the record company, the promoter, whoever worked so hard to buy a ticket -- your legacy. all of these things matter. the cliché of 1970 and coming up the way i watched led zeppelin, was fun from afar or fun when i was 20, but you've got to go to work, you know? it doesn't ring true anymore. charlie: it's hard to keep a band together? jon: it is. charlie: you develop different ideas. jon: it's a family, and is very difficult when you have marriages and kids and life goes on. charlie: the story i hear, and you would know more about this, nick and keith, they are always in conflict or -- mick and keith, they are always in conflict or competition. i don't know who wants to go on tour, but they get it together.

and they do. the pleasurehave of knowing those gentlemen. i got to tell you, i would love to sit in a room with mick jagger. [laughter] charlie: what was that conversation be about? [laughter] charlie: what would you want to know? the first question -- when in god's name are you going to quit, so at least i know where the end zone is? let me start this conversation light. know are me a day so i the end zone is. how do they do that? how does he keep it together? question myhout rock 'n roll band idols. without -- yes, without question. charlie: because of longevity? jon: longevity and the catalog of music, their performance ability, how he kept it together. it is a band. they are not a solo artist.

they are a band. charlie: they really are. jon: eyes straddle the line between the two. charlie: with very distinct personalities. jon: they are the rolling stones. charlie: do you look at yourself in the mirror sometime and think, you are one lucky -- jon: oh, absolutely. charlie: you get to use all of your brain and your soul and your heart in order to do that, in order to go out there and make sure people say to you, bring it on, this is what i want? to doeah, and you have the same as those tom brady and your producer. you have to do it. you have to go to work. was i got tobout do what i wanted to do. as a little boy, that is all i wanted to do. by the time i was 16, 17 years old, this was it.

there was no plan b. fortunately i was going up you could do those things and i did not have any other responsibilities. by 21, i got a record deal. the sweat was off the brow. my folks did not have to say, you know, we don't have to support you. jon: and --charlie: and you have build houses for people. that is what the foundation has done. and in significant numbers. jon: thank you. charlie: you are very wealthy man. you want to buy an nfl team. you are in pursuit of an nfl team. how close has it come? jon: we were on the doorstep. we had the wherewithal to do that. charlie: with your own funds or -- jon: funds with partners. we are talking substantial numbers here, but we really did to by the very badly buffalo bills. it didn't work out for me. charlie: will it work out? do you see another opportunity?

jon: there's always another opportunity. nfllie: once you get on the for a list, i assume you stay on the list. jon: well, i don't know. we'll find out. charlie: you know owners, too. jon: most definitely. yeah. yes and no. they don't -- a team is for sale. they don't know. charlie: they can control -- another was words, whoever has the top dollar gets it? then why did you get the bills? jon: we didn't have the chance to bid. it was a sealed bid, and we were outbid. and god bless the guy who got it. good for him. ♪

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