♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." bernie sanders is here. from vermonttor and then he announced his candidacy from -- for president of the united states. sanders went on to receive more than 13 million votes across the country winning 22 states. his campaign struck a powerful court. the donald trump stymieing,

party has been called into question. it outlines his vision for this country's future. i am pleased to have him back at this table. this?en did you break i wrote it over a three-month frantic period. i started after the democratic convention and just worked very hard for three months. it is a couple of things. it talks about the issues that you raised. entirebout taking on the establishment. us media with did not take seriously.

it talks about being on the campaign trail to some court the coalitions that we put together and we struck a real nerve. every primary and caucus that we engaged in, we won the overwhelming report. people under 40 years of age ideasells me that the that we brought forth art for the future of america. he talks about why. ideas that wehow do we get them invol? and to answers some fundamental questions that we don't talk about. for the last 40 years, the country has been in decline.

we've seen a massive shift to the top. how often do we discuss it. why are we the major country on earth not spending it on health care. what is he going to do about the planetary crisis of climate change. so what the second half of the that this is how we go forward. this is a blue print for an america and not just for a few. we leave the world and transform our system. it is two parts. it is a transcription. of the issues talked about. you met with hillary clinton before the dnc.

you believe she believed in what you did for the most part. bernie: what happened after the primary was over, set down together. making public colleges and universities tuition free. she had different approach. she came together with me. that is 80% of the population. she also came in agreement with me of a major program to expand community health centers. i am a believer in the single-payer program but we to get major expansion. thought it was far far superior to mr. trump. you wouldn't have done that if she was essentially close to where you were. argue -- argued that no

one cf. she understands that big money destroying united is our political system. she certainly understands the seriousness of this of global warming so her positions were strong and i was happy to campaign for her. there for youhe on terms of wall street? it means you never will know. one of the interesting moments , het now is donald trump said i am going to be a strong defender of the working class. you don't hear most democrats saying they will defend the working class.

think he recognizes at some point in the waning moments of the campaign that this was a call he had to make and try to reach out. he used language that many democrats don't so what we are is to sayo and my job you talked about the premises facing the working class. we want to raise the minimum wage. mr. trump, are you with us? ourant to rebuild infrastructure. it is easy for many to beat up on muslims and mexicans. or a little girl. very easy to beat up. take on corporate .merica

that is your challenge? are you surprised that he won? bernie: i wasn't shocked that i was surprised. charlie: what is he went? bernie: with the media does not understand is that there are tens of millions of people were not racist or sexist, they are hurting. you make 30 or $40,000 a year. just one simple thing. you are 60 years of age. you will be retiring in a few years. if you are 50% of older american

workers, do you know how much money you have in the bank? what do you think? you are scared to death. you are getting sick. nowou're middle-aged right and you have health insurance but you can't afford prescription drugs you are scared to death. that is a reality that the establishment. that is what millions of people are experiencing every day. question is why did they vote for donald trump? to the he spoke passion working class. bernie: i'm against everything. is i think he is an entertainer. i never believed it for a moment

but i hope he proves me wrong. he is nobody's fool. america, some of the didific things he said and was horrible. will you recognize that you can disrupt the millions of lives. while he. this writer. they have a birth certificate. do you think he did it for political reasons? bernie: i'm not his psychoanalyst. i don't know. racist and it got him all lot of attention. was just simply a gimmick for him to gain some record mission among extreme

right wing people. you have not's open to hillary clinton. minutes.t takes five bernie: he will. -- we will. hillary clinton and i are not intimate. is thatmore important in the last week of this campaign i was in 12 states giving 21 rallies speaking to 20,000 people. i played my role. i think it was important for hillary clinton to be elected but i want to get back. why did trump win? it is nothing to do with my relationship with hillary clinton. trump one because millions of people are hurting and many

people are not talking. charlie: they're saying going .round -- around that bernie: wait a minute. senator. i spent my entire life. have a privilege. you are in washington and you are recognized. i said that i am a united states senator. is a sense point rhetoricsed his own and in terms of her own analysis she said that they were on a roll that they were marching to victory and they were suddenly stopped by the comey announcement that he

was reopening the investigation. bernie: i think the comey investigation was inappropriate. .t could've made the difference she may well be right. forsett could've. let's not forget she got more votes than altra. byseveral states she won half. there is a deeper question. the deeper question is you can always go back and talk about this event that happened. the deeper question is how did we lose? who does not believe in the reality of climate change and to have attacked.

his record on women is beyond unspeakable. attacking african americans and latinos and muslims. how did we lose a race like that? that goes much deeper. that speaks to where the democratic party is today. what is the democratic party? it concerns me a lot. they're out raising money from wealthy people. in this day of an age, money is very important. you can't just spend your entire life raising money. what donald trump was doing was holding rallies. he was going into rural areas where candidates previously did not go. like wisconsin. he was out there rallying people and that is what a serious candidate has to do. that is what she can do

because she was raising money. she was not on the phone, she was at hundreds and hundreds of fundraisers. it's not just her. i really tell you here is a press release. that senator is going to mississippi. never saw that before. i know that because i went to mississippi and people said wow i never saw a non-republican coming. be. a shock that would and they talk to people other than going to fundraisers. a revolution and we need to transform it. need to make it eight working past party. -- a working-class party. charlie: they need a revolution.

the policy proposals coming from you and her and other democrats are one thing. it seems to me you are saying you have to show people who are hurting that you hear that anywhere listening and you recognize that they are up against insurmountable odds. let's put it out on the table. are we better off today? we were. massive under -- unemployment. another reality. the media has no clue. people are working to or three jobs. people are scared to death and they are working. there's thing hair went to school and i am $50,000 in debt.

charlie: everyone has understood in their head that we have a problem here. that was not a new idea. the difference was. the point i have raised earlier was that they were not communicating back. .hey understood it i can write a speech. we are going to fight for everyday americans. that is rhetoric. what does that mean? the american people are asking themselves how does it happen that every major financial institution has paid billions of

dollars in funds for a late -- illegal activity and no ceo has been prosecuted. this is a crop system. hasn't happened that billionaires are able to buy elections. say that,efore you you just said that we have eight years of the democratic administration and a democrat was appointed to be ahead of the justice department. you can answer the question as well as i can. that is the point. people say we're better off today but i think there is still a whole lot of things where this administration has not been as strong as it should be. you have mr. cheong coming along and saying hey you are hurting. charlie: will a president to be

able to dismantle president obama's legacy? bernie: i'm not worried about the legacy. what donald trump has said and is not an original idea. is largelycan party funded by the koch brothers. the koch brothers believe. charlie: they believe in reforming criminal justice. they want to eliminate those programs. they want to eliminate public education in america. this is an extreme right-wing group. they now have an enormous influence. charlie: they didn't and weren't

supportive of donald trump. bernie: they will be happy with him. charlie: here is this idea. him literally but not seriously and the people who supported him took him seriously but not literally meaning they get him on pass on some of these things because they believed in the end he really would change. trump brand the most unconventional campaign in the history of america. guynow he is a very smart and he has done some ugly things . terrible things said about mexican-americans. his record on women is a beyond belief. does as a president we will have to wait and see. he has raised some issues on the point of the middle last.

about the pharmaceutical industry. charlie the way i if he is going to go forward and thinks he's going to throw millions of latinos out of this country, if you think c is going to be a racist or sexist. we in the process of movement is going to fight him. you think you can stop them? bernie: the deportation of whoral million immigrants he says have a criminal record. bernie: what does that mean? did they jaywalk. i don't know what that means. i think yes.

i believe this so passionately. i'll have to tell you. , there have been people fighting on how we treated native americans and how we treated asian americans and the exclusion act. how we discriminated against italians and the jews. martin luther king said that we should judge people on their character. that is the vision that we have and there are millions of people who say we are not going back. you and your friends and not going to divide this country up. i think he is a smart guy. thate that he understands if he tries to divide us up there will be a massive

backlash. kim saying that climate change is a hoax. it is a great threat to this planet and it is going to transform our energy system. and speaks to the future here is what i worry about. they say the united states -- i have seven grandchildren. trump will mr. listen. it may be an indication that he is taking this seriously

and that somehow the awesome power of the white house has a sobering effect. trump: i think the donald is certainly an unusual type. i think he is a smart guy. and many ways you have to say that he ran a brilliant campaign. thatie: three with those oh him a chance? the question is not to allow that. it is whether to wait and see what he is going to do. i don't think the majority. let's be clear. we have racism and sexism in this country. i think they are a minority. there are a lot of people who disliked aim that lot of what he said. charlie: no one had done

anything before. bernie: they are hurting. charlie: hazlett is the democratic party? -- how split. bernie: i speak about it every day. it is split. let's look at it another way. today the republican party soon control the white house, the senate, the house, two thirds of the statehouses in this country. the democratic party has lost eight or 900 seats in state legislatures around the country. charlie: why? any objective and analysis of whatever the democrats are doing is not working. that we can agree on. that is number one. and i don't mean this in a crazy way. the democratic party has become

a member of the elite. people as i am are going to fight for women's rights. but when all that you're sitting at a cocktail party raising money for people can contribute $30,000 apiece, other people staying up nights saw his job go to china. what you need to do is change the focus and say that we need your help. you are the minority. we need to stop -- start reaching out to the 99%. that is what the book is about. charlie: the book is our revolution. thank you for coming. bernie: thank you very much. back in a moment stay with us. ♪

charlie: leslie stahl is here. colleague andime friend. she sat down with donald trump. they discussed his plans to fulfill his campaign promise to make america great again. the world and you look at how various places are

taking advantage of our country. very proudly. it is going to be america first. that is what he ran on. he is kind of walking a tightrope. he wants to be true to what he said that he is adjusting. it is the beginning of the negotiations. charlie: he knew. what he says is his opening bid. impression onthat a holistic issues. some he is pretty firm about. ofdidn't give any kind indication on a shift on that. charlie: you may have a chance to appoint a number of judges.

we have two liberal judges that are over 80. someone toint replace anthony kennedy as a swing voter. and garland is not going to be there. that is three or four right there. that could change the course. leslie: that was a huge issue on the campaign for both sides. it is not as if the country didn't understand. charlie: you interviewed him during the campaign. that very day i interviewed him when he named mike pence. he told us then that he would give us the first interview as president-elect. we had giant numbers. what surprised you? you haven't talked to him before. there was no sense. there were zero

restrictions and no discussions. sometimes someone will call and say what are your areas. there was none of that. and people were asking me what was his demeanor. everyone saw the same thing i man who had the weight of what he was getting into. everything else. and no one cans understand. i think it was a cold shower who

went in with obama who laid out some of the difficulties and how things come. maybe there is a personal issue. there is economic and it is coming at the president constantly. charlie: he actually said to you that he had done some big things. business now is peanuts compared to this. he is going to be the leader of the free world. it is an enormous responsibility. there is no question he is feeling it. charlie: clearly wants to find the best people. leslie: obviously. who is doing a balancing act when he has mr. bannon and reince priebus together because they represent two different

ideologies. when reagan appointed jim baker. republicanervative and the three of them had been worked wonderfully together. it is a model that reagan liked i had heard that this was something donald trump liked in his organization. he liked people who don't agree with each other and they don't mind a squabble it out. he comes into this presidency having said his things. let's go through some of the promises you made and tell us if you are going to do what you said or change it in any way. are you really going to build a

wall? >> yes. would you accept offense? >> and very good at this. what about the pledge to deport millions of undocumented immigrants? >> what we are going to do is get the people that are criminal , gang members, drug dealers. we have a lot of these people. we are getting them out of our or we are going to incarcerate. we are getting them out of the country. after the border is secured, we're going to make a or we are going to incarcerate. determination on the people you are talking about. butare terrific people we're going to make a determination. before we make it, it is important that we secure the border.

people don't realize anda dispelled 2 million people don't remember that. i'm not sure if there are 2 million criminals. talk about the family. he has talked about the family all along. we know that his sons and daughters have and surrogates for him on the campaign trail and he is very close to the rocket shot. i got the impression that this is who he trusts. he raised them not to sit back and just enjoy the money. he raised them to work. he raised them. them but really trust them in their judgment and

they are not going to be in .ashington still in the transition. i got the impression he will not be in the administration but i also have the impression that he will be in touch with the family. what he said to us is that there is no ethical and legal restriction. legally there is no forcing him to do that. charlie: people don't understand how difficult it was to do what you did. sure if they're going to say something unexpected.

especially when he was adjusting. i knew for example that we had something different. i had to move on because that was established. .f you stuck with what he said charlie: he says he is against it. leslie: he didn't say that. pro-lifehat he is several times and i am going to appoint pro-life judge. he never said i want to overturn it but it is implied. leslie: stevens overturned, it would go back to the states. women will be able to get abortions.

is that they can go to another state. charlie: you talk about the protest. how did he respond to that? i asked him a lot about the racial threats that are happening now. and he blamesg on the press for so much. he says that the press whipped up the protesters and that there were professional protesters. that the press is responsible. really all the way through he was not bitter to anybody. he said lovely things about the president and hillary. nice person, very lovely on the phone.

he withheld the decision on to whether he would. leslie: i think hillary will in fact not want to because he doesn't need that. i don't want to hurt them, he said. the bitterness that remains is to the mainstream media. it is intense. that play out?ll leslie: i fear. he says that he used social media and was able to reach people in the way people want to be communicated with jose. that is why he won and didn't need to spend nearly the amount of money that hillary clinton did. it was hard to argue.

he said he picked 100,000 just this morning. he's not wrong by the way. moses is the way we're going to be communicating. business him talking about the protest. when i demonstrate a catchy and there are signs out there, don't you say to yourself. worry.ve to do i have to tell them not to be afraid. i would tell them to be afraid. i have been saying it. don't be afraid. we are to bring our country back. certainly don't be afraid.

you have to be given a little time. peopleary had one and my were protesting everyone would say that's a terrible thing. it would've been a much different attitude. there is a double standard here. you think he owes the selection to in his own mind? leslie: himself. charlie: he was independent operator. leslie: he campaigned the way he and he wanted to keep the collection -- connection going with the crowd. he didn't listen to people telling him to read the teleprompter and tone it down. we have to give him a lot of credit. we have to agree with him on this. any sense of who he

might appoint? i have a feeling the administration will be half establishment and have seriously conservative or all caps right. he's going to try to keep that balance going. just when you think everyone is coming from one side. charlie: dutch word he's giving power to be all right. that have be people reflected the worst instincts. leslie: i didn't ask him about the racial tones and the effect on schoolchildren and things like that. he basically told me it's an exaggeration. it's not happening that much. charlie: the rank this on the types of conversations.

leslie: he answered every question in full. it was not a candidate and pointed or cursed talking kind of interview at all. and isee him thinking really appreciated it as a mainstream reporter. i think he really wanted to be reassuring. he understood this was a moment seriousas deliberately and somber and thoughtful. way heery smart in the and signaled guns that i'm going to make some changes.

but hes a balance there is letting us know that there will be bumps. it is a high wire for him. leslie salt from 60 minutes. back in a moment. ♪

charlie: moore returned to costa -- for more on the truck

campaign, we turn to bob costa. what do you make of the demeanor you saw on 60 minutes? >> i think leslie stahl nailed it. this is trump responding to the moment. also adjusting to the moment. it is not that he didn't expect to win, it is the gravity of the presidency is finally settling on his shoulders especially of that meeting. charlie: how did that go? coming outenthused of that meeting. it went much longer than he would have thought but the scope of running the federal government is not something he has waded into. has thought about it in broad strokes but not in the kind of granular detail. it was not of confrontational meeting but it was confrontational. he had to grapple with the president on facets of the

affordable care act. obama didn't ask for them to stay but he made a case for what he has done. they talked about foreign policy clearly. that is the big? hovering over the president-elect. how is he going to handle it. he is now going to be facing deep secrets. a security apparatus beyond what donald trump has dealt with. when you look at domestic policy he is ready. somewhat conservative on many fronts but foreign policy is where he has shown some non-in for -- interventionist stinks. -- instincts. charlie: during the campaign, a lot of people from the security establishment chose not to support him. >> that is correct.

is of the things you see john bolton. he comes from the george w. bush white house. if you are a television general or analyst, you are part of the conversation right now on trump tower. the most important thing that has happened our conversations with former president george w. bush and mitt romney. that could try and guide him through and recommend him some names. charlie: general slant-in is -- flynn's hyatt. he might be the national security advisor. list.at the top of the flynn is someone who is wearing. he clashed with the many people

when he was in the obama administration. he has been at donald trump's during the campaign. if you are not close to him, it is tough to see how you don't have a top post. charlie: has the future of chris , the first person to endorse him during the primaries , has its dissented? has diminished. the new jersey governor was supposed to be a top player but there has been a slew of sorts and this has gone underreported. we are trying to flesh it out but all the christie people who are forming this transition, they have been elbowed out by jeff sessions and his allies. you're seeing the establishment

republicans are now being replaced by some more popular -- populist conservatives. that is an important change to watch. charlie: sessions might need an important cabinet level job. it is going to be giuliani and sessions who have been at donald trump side from the very beginning and are seen as too confidants. postcan have any cabinet big sunlight. those two certainly are seen at trump tower. charlie: what are the implications of the job that steve bannon has? >> it is the job at the white house. an equal partner. he is the chief strategist. but he isrthy title the heart and soul of the president-elect's campaign and presidency. previous is someone who can

connect him with capital hill. he knows mitch mcconnell and has a feel for the party that it is bannon who brought nigel farage and brexit over to meet with donald trump. it is bannon who sees trump as a global populist figure who can change the way not only democracy works but as being more populist and nationalist and not along that. charlie: what does that mean in terms of specifics. >> you have to pay close attention to trade. you don't feature -- congressional leaders itching to do anything entree. ist bannon and trouble do renegotiate trade deals around the world from the executive branch. that is going to be the first populist mark and the other thing is immigration. jeff sessions and steve bannon

are the two advocates for andting legal limit gratian getting rid of illegal immigration. charlie: the statute of liberty will have less meaning in a trap administration. -- if you study jeff sessions and steve bannon's career, they have been part of this world that has gotten little attention but is consumed with the idea of limiting immigration levels. that is a priority for them. charlie: was a priority on the campaign. help us understand what else i'd be a part of that. what they want to see donald trump two. with bannon, pay attention to anddisruption he brings even with republicans in

congress. he is someone who is a master at and he hasheater brought down a house speaker in john boehner. he put immense pressure on the house leadership. he is also -- has elected a president of the united states. he helped plot the trip to mexico. he is someone who had the idea of putting all the accusers in a room before a debate. he is a political theater strategist and someone who knows that his power in his view. charlie: there are those who have said that the idea of being campaigne was a clear strategy by donald trump and others and it was essential to victory they believe. yes.

it is how he thinks about politics. if they can disrupt on social media and have everyone talking about tweets and different personality battles, they think the political class is distracted and not focused as much as what is happening on policy and immigration and corporate taxes. they don't want all the attention on certain policies. donald trump sees chaos as a way to navigate power rather than just chaos. to see ado you expect huge battle between the trump presidency and the national media? >> it is already shaping up. for example, the conversations is pretty combative on all sides. kellyanne conway was speaking to reporters on monday and said the

coverage has been abysmal. she doesn't like it. controversialany headlines and things that have aligned anti-semitic watch groups. he is a controversial figure to be sure. that sets the tone of the administration. they are outsiders and don't have many relationships in this town. been a greathave guide for us. i think you and look for to talking to you soon. >> thank you, charlie. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

mark: i am mark halperin. john: and i'm john heilemann. ben carson, you had one job. john: on the show tonight, conflict about trump's conflicts of interest. the state of his paper secretary of state. first, more transitions for trump's transition team. mike rogers abruptly resigned, removing an establishment national security voice and prompting the liberations about how trump will build his cabinet. he called his work a privilege