♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." bernie sanders is here. he was a senator from vermont with low name recognition when he announced his candidacy for president of the united states. that was in may 2015. very little money, little political organization. he took on hillary clinton in the primary. sanders went on to receive more than 13 million votes across the country winning 22 states. , his campaign struck a powerful chord with many young voters and is credited with inspiring a new

wave of political activism. the party has been called into question in the wake of donald trump's win. his book outlines his vision for this country's future. i am pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. when did you write this? did you keep a diary? bernie: i wrote it over a three-month frantic period. working 12 hours, 13 hours every day. i started it after the democratic convention. i just worked hard for three months. it is a couple of things. the first half of the book talks about the issues that you raised. talks about taking on the entire political establishment, the clinton organization, the media that did not take us seriously. also wall street and corporate

america. it talks about being on the campaign joe, the kind of support and coalitions that we put together. among young people and working people, we struck a real nerve. in virtually every primary and caucus that we engaged in, we won the overwhelming report. people under 40 years of age. which tells me that the ideas we brought forth are the ideas for the future of america. why.book is about working people and young people -- how do we get them involved? the second book -- it's the second part of the book is what we need to do a lot about, to answer some fundamental questions we don't talk about. for the last 40 years, the middle class in this country has been in decline. during that period we have seen

a massive shift of income from the middle class to the top 1/10th of 1%. why are we the only major country not to have paid family and medical leave? what are we going to do about the planetary crisis about climate change? the second half of the book says, these of the crises that we face. in my view, this is how we go forward. this is a blueprint that in america that works robust, not just a few. it is how we transform our energy system and not allow us to be divided up. it is two parts. it is a campaign joe, and it is a prescription for going forward. issues youose are talked about. you met with hillary clinton before the convention.

insaid she mostly believed what you did. bernie: what happened after the primary was over, set down together. i had proposed making public colleges and universities tuition free. she had a different approach. it was a strong approach. she came together with me and said, let's make the lectures -- public colleges and universities tuition free for 80% of the population. that is a pretty big deal. she also came in agreement with me of a major program to expand community health centers. i am a believer in the medicare for all single-payer program, but we to get major expansion. but if through after issue, it was far far superior to mr. trump. charlie: you wouldn't have done that if she was essentially close to where you were. bernie: we can argue.

certainly not on every issue -- on every issue she understands that big-money and citizens united is our political system. she was in favor of overturning citizens united. she certainly understands the seriousness of global warming. on many issues, her positions were strong. i was happy to campaign for her. charlie: once she with you in terms of wall street? bernie: you would have to ask her. charlie: that means she doesn't. bernie: we just never know. one of the interesting moments right now is donald trump, he said i am going to be a strong defender of the working class. how often do you hear the term used? you don't hear most democrats say we are going to defend the working-class -- mi right on that? -- am i right on that?

charlie: you are saying that he recognized in the waning moments of the campaign that this was a call he had to make? bernie: he used language that many democrats don't. what we are going to do, and my job as a u.s. senator and that many few months i had -- the many few months ahead -- you're talking about how people are working for longer wages,, this is our plan. we want to raise the minimum wage. mr. trump, are you with us? we want to rebuild our infrastructure. are you with us? it is easy for mr. trump and his friends, not all, to beat up on muslims and mexicans. someone who makes eight dollars an hour, or someone with no power, or a little girl wearing a cowl. very easy to beat up. can you take on corporate america. were corporate -- where

corporations don't they a nickel in texas? -- -- don't pay a nickel in taxes? charlie: are you surprised that he won? bernie: i wasn't shocked that i charlie: why did he win? bernie: i will tell you why. with the establishment doesn't understand is that there are tens of thousands of people who are not racists, they are hurting. charlie, you make $40,000 a year, you are a single dad. how do you afford $15,000 a year for child care? you are 60 years of age. charlie: four you get housing, food-- bernie: exactly. just one simple thing -- childcare. you are 60 years of age, retiring in a few years. charlie: if you have a job. bernie: you were not going to have a job. if you are 50% of older american

workers, do you know how much you have in the bank? what do you think? they are scared to death. if you are middle-aged, you have a couple kids, and you have health insurance, but you have very high deductibles and copayments and you can't afford to instruction drunks. you are scared. drugs.rd prescription that is what millions of people are experiencing everything. you are a worker. you worked in a factory with pride. charlie: soon as, why did they vote for hillary -- why did they vote for? donald trump? bernie: he spoke with passion. going to fight for the working-class. claim against washington." ii happen to think he is a good

entertainer. going to fight for the working-class. claim against i never believed him for a moment. that we can's fool, recognize. really looking at america understands that some of the river things that he said during the campaign and things that he has done in his life, like leaving the birther -- leading the birther movement, was a horrible thing to do. will you recognize that you can 't disrupt the millions of lives of people? he did the you think birther thing for political reasons? bernie: i am not his psychoanalyst. i don't know. clearly it was nothing less than a racist effort, which got him a lot of attention with certain types of people. clearly itat best, it was simplk for him to games of recognition

among extreme right-wing people. charlie: what surprises me is that you have not talked to hillary clinton since the debate. 5 minutes-- it takes to talk to her. for her to call you. bernie: we will is is that before the day is over. charlie: before this day is over. bernie: hillary clinton and i -- charlie: you are not intimate, i understand. bernie: what is important is that in the last week of this campaign, i was in 12 states giving 21 rallies speaking to 21,000 people before the election. i think i played my role. i thought it was important that hillary clinton the elected. but you asked me a question, why did trump win? it has nothing to do with my relationship with hillary clinton. trump won because millions of people are hurting, and very few

folks are talking to their pain. charlie: there is a saying going around that for the establishment elite -- and you are a number of the elite. the most exclusive club. bernie: wait a minute. of course i am a u.s. senator.is that my entire life working for working people. charlie: could you have a privilege as a human being being in washington and being recognized. bernie: i accept-- charlie:working for working you, but at the same time -- be an elite, but at same time realize your position. used hisis, when he own rhetoric to appeal to them. in terms of her own analysis of the election, she says they were on a roll, that they were marching to victory, and they were suddenly stopped by the comey announcement that he was reopening the investigation.

bernie: i think the comey investigation was inappropriate. i think it hurt hillary clinton. it could've made the difference. she may well be right. charlie: it could have made the margin of difference? bernie: yes. let's not forget she got more votes than mr. trump. in several states, she lost by less than half. there is a deeper question. thinking about this or that tactic -- the deeper question is, how did we lose? theought in -- i broaden didcratic party here, how we lose to someone who proposes to throw 20 million americans off of health insurance, who does not believe in the reality his recordchange --

on women is unspeakable. attacking latinos and muslims. how did we lose a race like that? that speaks to where the democratic party is today. what is the democratic party? it concerns me very much. we had a lot of democrats -- do you know what they do most of their lives? they are out raising their money for wealthy people. as a result of citizens united, money is important. you can't just spend your entire life raising money. what donald trump was doing was holding rallies. he was going into rural areas where candidates previously did not go. in many ways, i did that myself. charlie: like wisconsin. bernie: i am much or how you run a campaign for president and not go to wisconsin. he was out rallying people. that is what a serious candidate has got to do. charlie: that is what she can do

because she was raising money. that is the point you are raising. bernie: she was not on the phone, she was at hundreds and hundreds of fundraiser. it is not just her. if i were to tell you, gee, here is a press release or a leading democrat is going to mississippi to speak to one of the poorest states in the country. can you think of any time? i can tell you because i want to mississippi and they said gee, i never saw a non republican coming to mississippi to talk to working people. imagine talking to people other than fundraisers. we need a democratic revolution. we need to make it a grassroots working-class party. charlie: you wrote an op-ed that made this point. we need a revolution because the problems he proposals coming

from you, from her, from other democrats are one thing. it seems to me you are saying you have to show people who are hurting that you hear them, that you are listening. that you recognize that they are up against insurmountable odds. bernie: that is right. let's put it out on the table. are we better off today than we were eight years ago when obama became president? the answer is, you have to be partisan to not admit that we were. yes, we are better off. but there is another reality you just touched on. and if the media has no clue about it all. people are working two or three jobs. people are scared to death and they are working. college graduates that are waiting tables. they said, i went to school and i am $50,000 in debt.

is that all this country has to offer? charlie: everyone has understood in their head that we have a problem here. that was not a new idea. the difference was, and i am , they simplyying did not indicate that. they understood it-- there is understanding and understanding. i can write a speech saying, we are going to fight for everyday americans. does that mean that i really-- charlie: that is the way the votes are too. bernie: how does rhetoric. what does that mean? the american people are asking themselves how does it happen that every major financial institution has paid billions of dollars of fines for illegal

activity. no ceo has been prosecuted. people are saying that this is the correct system. -- is a corrupt system. charlie: before you say that, you just said that we have eight years of the democratic administration and a democrat was pointed to be the leader of the justice department. bernie: yep. you can answer the question as well as i can. that is the point. people say we're better off today under obama then we were at the end of bush's campaign. thank you president obama for doing a lot of good things. but i still think there are a lot of things where this administration has not been as strong as it should be. you have mr. trump coming along and saying, you're hurting your factories. trump beingl mr.

able to dismantle president obama's legacy? bernie: i'm not worried about the legacy. i am worried about the reality, how it impacts millions of people. what donald trump has said and this is not an original idea. this is what republicans believe. the republican party is largely funded by the koch brothers. do you know what the koch brothers belief? you should have them up here sometime. charlie: they believe in reforming criminal justice. bernie: i will tell you else what they want to believe. they want to limit social security and medicare. they want to eliminate public education in america. this is an extreme right-wing group that spends hundreds of millions of dollars to elect republicans. they now have an enormous influence over the republican party. charlie: they were not supportive of donald trump. bernie: oh, i think they will be just fine.

you are right that they put money into senate and house races. i think they will be very happy with what mr. trump does. charlie: here is an idea that is getting some prominence, that the elites took him literally, but not seriously. and the people who supported him, took him seriously, but not literally. meaning, they gave him a pass to be disruptive, whether they believed in the end she would really change. bernie: this is what i know. mr. trump ran the most unconventional campaign in the history of america. we know that he is a very smart guy. he has done some ugly things in birther race in the movement, terrible things said about mexican-americans. his record on women isbeyond belief. what he does as a president we will have to wait and see. on the other hands, he has raised some issues about the

decline of the middle class, about wall street, about the pharmaceutical industry, so all -- i am not here to predict what mr. trump will do. if he's going to go forward, and this appointment of mr. bannon is a bad sign -- if he thinks he's going to throw millions of latinos out of this country, if you think he is going to be a racist or sexist. we in the progressive movement are going to fight him tooth and nail/ charlie: can you stop him? can you stop the deportation of several million immigrants who he says have a criminal record? bernie: i don't know whether -- what that means. does that mean that they jaywalked? were this -- were they speeding on an interstate?

i believe this so passionately. i'll have to tell you. this country, for hundreds of years, their people that have been fighting against how we treated native americans, i retreated african-americans, how we treated women, i retreated asian-americans -- the asian exclusion act -- the italians and jews did everyone else. we have been fighting over and over again to reach what martin luther king told us, that we should judge people based on the character, not the color of their skin or where they came from. there are millions of people who say, we are not going back. mr. trump, you and your friends and not going to divide this country up. i think he is a smart guy. he is a strange man, but a very smart man. i hope that he understands that if he tries to divide us up by race or country of origin, there will be a massive

backlash. thirdly what concerns me, she did not talk much -- the media did not talk much about this. trump campaigned by saying that climate change is a hoax. i have been on compass minerals, let me tell you that climate change is no hoax. we have to move away from fossil fuel. that speaks not only to the future of this country, but the whole world. i worry that if the rest of the world -- russia, china, india, germany, see that the united states doesn't believe in the morality of, change they will say, why the hell are we changing? i hope that mr. trump has the brains to listen to the scientific community. charlie: do you have any indication based on what he has said? is seriouslyhe thinking that the awesome power

of the white house has a sobering effect. bernie: let me say it again. i think donald trump in his own way is certainly an unusual type, but think he is a smart guy. in many ways, you have to say that he ran a brilliant campaign. nobody thought that he could win. charlie: do you agree with those that say we all it to him -- we owe it to him to give him a chance? bernie: i will not give them a chance in terms of racist and sexist policies. charlie: the question is not whether he will allow it, but it is whether to wait and see what he is going to do. bernie: i don't think the majority -- let's be clear. we have racism and sexism in this country. i think they are a minority. there are a lot of people who ho just like ap w lot of what he said, but felt he could do something to improve their economic condition. charlie: no one had done anything before.

and they are hurting. bernie: they are hurting. charlie: how split is the democratic party? you wrote about the notion that the democratic party has to change. bernie: i wrote about it in the book and i speak about it every day. it is split. let's look at it another way. today the republican party will soon control the white house, the senate, the house, two thirds of the statehouses in this country. in the last eight years the , democratic party has lost eight or 900 seats in state legislatures around the country. charlie: why? bernie: any objective analysis of whatever the democrats are doing ain't working very well. that we can agree on. that is number one. i don't mean this in a condemning way.

the democratic party has become a member of the liberal elite. people as i am are going to fight for women's rights. i believe all that. i have a 100% voting record on all of those issues. but when you're sitting at a cocktail party raising money for people can contribute $30,000 apiece to your pac, others stay up late worrying about the worker in wisconsin who saw his job go to china. what you need to do is change the focus and say to those wealthy people, we need your help, but you are the minority. we are going to start reaching out to the 98-99%, many of whom are really hurting. that is what the book is about. charlie: the book is "our revolution." thank you very much for coming. bernie: thank you very much. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

i charlie: leslie stahl is here. she has been a correspondent on 60 minutes for 25 years. -- she sat down with donald trump. they discussed his plans to fulfill his campaign promise to make america great again. >> when you look at the world

and how various places are taking advantage of our country, i say it very probably, it will be america first. i am pleased to introduce leslie stahl. that is what he ran on, making america first. leslie: that is what he ran on. he is kind of walking a tightrope. he wants to be true to what he said that he is adjusting. it is the beginning of the negotiations. here is my opening bid, come back at me. charlie: he knew it. he says come do not pay attention to what he says is his opening bid. he used that very phrase. leslie: i have that impression. but some, he is still pretty firm about. give any he did not kind of indication of a shift on that. what is interesting, he may have a chance to appoint a number of judges, two liberal

judges over 80.

call and say, what are your areas? i'm sure you have some of that. he walked in, had no idea what kind of an interview, what the issues would be. everyone thought the same thing i saw, which was a man having the enormity of what he was getting into hitting him as you are watching him. and everything else. all these issues, filling the government with 4000 people. it is overwhelming. charlie: were you surprised by it? no person can understand it until they are given that responsibility. i think it was a cold

shower when he went in with obama who laid out some of the difficulties and how things come. you're dodging different domestic issues, may a personal issue with someone on your staff . there is foreign, economic, and it is coming of the president constantly, every day, basically 24/7. wasaid his business now peanuts compared to this. he is right. he is going to be the leader of the free world. it is an enormous responsibility. there is no question he is feeling it. no question. charlie: clearly wants to find the best people. leslie: obviously. i think he is doing a balancing act when he has mr. bannon and reince priebus together because they represent two different ideologies.

charlie: one is for the party and the other is antiestablishment. leslie: i remember when reagan appointed jim baker. a very conservative republican and the three of them had been worked wonderfully together. it is a model that reagan liked and i had heard that this was something donald trump liked in his organization. he liked people who don't agree with each other and they don't mind a squabble it out. maybe the best decision will bubble up to him. charlie: he comes into this presidency having said some controversial things and you asked him about most of them. here is immigration. leslie: let's go through some of the promises you made and tell us if you are going to do what you said or change it in any way. are you really going to build a wall? >> yes.

leslie: they are talking about offense and a republican congress. would you accept a fence? ex in certain areas i would, but in other areas of wall is more appropriate. i'm very good at construction. there could be some fencing. leslie: what about the pledge to deport millions of undocumented immigrants? >> what we are going to do is get the people that are criminal, with criminal records gang members, drug dealers. , we have a lot of these people. probably 2 million or we are 3 million. getting them out of our country or we are going to incarcerate. we are getting them out of the country. after the border is secured, and after everything is normalized we will make a determination on the people you're talking about who are terrific people, terrific people, but we are going to make a determination. before we make it, it is important that we secure the border. leslie: people don't realize

mr. obama expelled almost 2 million, so people do not remember that. i'm not sure if there are 2 million criminals. i do not know if there is even a small percentage. charlie: talk about the family. he has talked about the family all along. we know that his sons and daughters have been surrogates for him on the campaign trail and he is very close to ivanka trump. leslie: i got the impression that this is who he trusts. this is it. charlie: blood is thicker. leslie: he raised them not to sit back and just enjoy the money. he raised them to work and be responsible and have families and raise them. he relies on them but really trust them in a judgment.

and they are not going to be in washington. charlie: his son-in-law? a rather prominent role in the campaign. leslie: still in the transition. i got the impression he will not be in the administration but i also have the impression that he will be in touch with the family. he is not going to not continue to trust him. he will be running the business if he allows it to stand. leslie: what he said to us is that there is no ethical and legal restriction against him having his family run the business. legally, there is no one forcing him to do that. charlie: people don't understand how difficult it is to do what you did. there are a lot of things you could say in an open-ended conversation, but you have to make sure you are balanced. they will say if something unexpected which will

eat up your time, as well. leslie: especially when he was adjusting from what he said on the campaign trail. i knew for example on deportation, we had something different. i had to move on because that was established. said, iuck with what he pushed a little on the abortion -- roe v wade. charlie: he said he was against it? leslie: he didn't say that. he said that he is pro-life several times and i am going to a point of pro-life judge. he never said i want to overturn it but it is implied. charlie: didn't he say he would like it to return to the state? and you have to those who lived in those states. leslie: if it's overturned, it would go back to the states. i said, women will not be able to get abortions? he said they can go to another

state because the state will make those decisions. charlie: you spoke to the moment of protests at trump tower and other cities. how did he respond to that? leslie: i asked him a lot about the racial threats that are happening now. hate talk going on and he blames the press for so much. he says that the press whipped up the protesters and that there were professional protesters. that the press is responsible. for creating a false impression of him. really all the way through he was not bitter to anybody. he said lovely things about the president and hillary. about bill clinton. nice person, very lovely on the phone. i do not want to hurt them. charlie: but he withheld the

decision as to whether he would -- leslie: fairly. it was hanging by a thread. charlie: you think he will in fact want to see her prosecuted? leslie: i think he will not too. he said i don't want to hurt them, he said. the bitterness that remains is toward the mainstream media. it is intense. charlie: how will that play out? leslie: i fear for the mainstream media of which i am apart, and you, too. he explicitly says that he used social media and was able to reach people in the way people want to be communicated with today. that is why he won and didn't need to spend nearly the amount of money that hillary clinton did. it was hard to argue.

charlie: he takes pride in the fact he has like 30 million followers. picked he said, i 100,000 just this morning. charlie: take a look at this. leslie: he's not wrong by the way. charlie: this is him talking about the protest. >> lome demonstrate against you and there are signs out there, don't you say to yourself, i guess you don't, do i have to worry? do i have to go out and assuage them? mr. trump: i would tell them not to be afraid. leslie: but that is not what you are saying. mr. trump: i have been saying it, do not be afraid. we're going to bring our country back. certainly don't be afraid. , youst had an election

have to be given a little time. people are protesting. and my people won went out protesting everyone would say that's a terrible thing. it would've been a much different attitude. there is a double standard here. herlie: who do you think owes this election to in his own mind? leslie: himself. charlie: he was independent operator more than any other candidate we have seen. leslie: he campaigned the way he wanted to and he wanted to keep the connection going with the crowd. and the wider audience he was reaching by tweeting. he didn't listen to people telling him to read the teleprompter and tone it down. we have to give him a lot of credit. we have to agree with him on this. charlie: any sense of who he might appoint?

including our own here in new york, rudy giuliani? leslie: i have a feeling the administration will be half establishment, and half seriously conservative or alt- right, or whatever that term is. he's going to try to keep that balance going. just when you think everyone is coming from one side. charlie: is he giving power and credential to alt-right? leslie: i did ask him about the racial epithets that we are beginning to hear, and about the effect on schoolchildren and things like that. me it is an told exaggeration, not happening that much and the press is blowing it up. charlie: another point, he said i will tell them to stop. how do you rank this in terms of the types of conversations you have had this political year?

leslie: way up there. he answered every question. he answer them in full. prepared, a canned, rehearsed talking point kind of interview at all. you could see him thinking. it as aally appreciated mainstream reporter that he dislikes so much. i think he really wanted to be reassuring to the american people. had a moment with this kind of audience. leslie: he was deliberately serious and somber compared to the way he had been before. and thoughtful. smart in the way he both sticks to his guns and signals, i am going to make some changes.

there is a balance there and he is trying to find the right balance. but he is letting us know that there will be bumps. it is a high wire act for him. leslie: leslie stahl from 60 minutes. ♪ charlie: for more on the trump

campaign, we turn to bob costa.

he has been covering the trump campaign from the beginning. what do you make of the demeanor of donald trump you saw on 60 minutes? >> i think leslie stahl nailed it. this is trump responding to the moment. also adjusting to the moment. it is not that he didn't expect to win, it is the gravity of the presidency is finally settling on his shoulders. especially after that meeting with president obama. charlie: how did that go in terms of the significant? >> he felt enthused coming out of that meeting. it went much longer than he would have thought but the scope of running the federal government is not something he has waded into. he has thought about the presidency in broad strokes, not in the kind of granular detail. it was not of confrontational meeting in terms of temperament, but it was confrontational in terms of reality. trump had to grapple with the president on facets of the affordable care act.

and different regulations the president has put in. obama didn't ask for them to stay but he made a case for what he has done. charlie: they talked about foreign policy clearly. >> that is the big question mark hovering over the president-elect. how is he going to handle it. he is now going to be facing deep secrets. a security apparatus beyond what donald trump has dealt with. when you look at domestic policy he is ready. somewhat conservative on many fronts but foreign policy is where he has shown some noninterventionist instincts. he is not a hawk. he has turned into a lot of different people as he tries to navigate the scene. charlie: during the campaign, a lot of people from the security establishment chose not to support him. did not necessarily support

hillary clinton but chose not to support him publicly. >> that is correct. one of the things you see is john bolton, former u.n. and bassett are hawkish comes from the george w. bush white house. if you are a television general or analyst on national security and foreign policy your part of the conversation right now on trump tower. the most important thing that they saythe most important thing that has happened in the last week with former president george w. bush and mitt romney. that could try and guide him through and recommend him some names. charlie: general flynn. he clearly is high up in terms of those close to him during the campaign. some suggested he might be the national security advisor. >> i think he is at the top of the list. seen warily because he has a combative personality.

if you're not close to him it is hard to see how you have a top post. charlie: has the future of chris christie, the first person to endorse him during the primaries, has it descended? >> it has diminished. the new jersey governor was supposed to be a top player but there is been a coup of sorts and this has gone underreported. we are trying to flesh it out but all the christie people who are forming this transition, and waiting for trump they have , been elbowed out by jeff sessions, the alabama senator, and his allies like rick dearborn, the top policy advisor. you're seeing the establishment republicans are now being replaced by some more populist

conservatives. that is an important change to watch. charlie: sessions might need an important cabinet level job. >> if anyone he will be rudy giuliani, and sessions, who have been at trump's side since the beginning and are seen as true confidants. they can have any cabinet post they would like at their fingertips. a lot of discussions about who would be the best fit. those two certainly are seen at trump tower. charlie: what are the implications of the job that steve bannon has? >> it is the job at the white house. reince priebus will be the chief of staff and steve bannon is billed as an equal partner. he is the chief strategist. and senior counselor. it is a wordy title but he is the heart and soul of the president-elect's campaign and presidency.

priebus is someone who can connect him with capital hill. he knows mitch mcconnell and has a feel for the party. but it is bannon who brought nigel farage and brexit over to meet with donald trump. it is bannon who sees trump as a global populist figure who can change the way not only works, butemocracy is america's role being more populist and nationalist and not along that. charlie: what does that mean in terms of specific international policy? >> you have to pay close attention to trade. you don't see congressional leaders itching to do anything on trade. what bannon and trump will do from the outset is renegotiate trade deals around the world dealing with different you don't see congressional cous from the executive branch. that is going to be the first populist mark and the other thing also planned on the populist level is immigration. jeff sessions and steve bannon are the two advocates for

limiting illegal and legal immigration. charlie: limiting legal immigration? so the statue of liberty will have less meaning in a trump administration. >> my point is, if you study jeff sessions and steve bannon's career, they have been part of this world on the american right that has gotten little attention but is consumed with the idea of limiting legal immigration levels in the united states. that is a priority for them. you can expect it to be a priority next year. charlie: there is a priority in the campaign. help us understand as people and what they want to see donald trump do. >> with bannon, pay attention to the disruption he brings and the confrontations with the media, the foreign leaders, and even republicans in congress.

bannon is a master at political theater and he has brought down a house speaker in john boehner. through his website bright part breitbart has put immense pressure on house leadership he has elected a , president of the united states. he helped plot the trip to mexico. he is someone who had the idea of putting all the accusers of bill clinton in a room before the debate. he is a political theater strategist and someone who knows that if he can find a way for trump to consume the conversation that is power, in his view. charlie: those close to trump say the idea of being disruptive was a clear campaign strategy by donald trump and steve bannon and others that was essential to victory, they believe. >> yes. it is essential to have trump thinks of politics.

at the way trump thinks, based on my conversations with him, if they can disrupt on social media and have everyone talking about tweets and different personality battles, they think the political class is distracted and not focused as much as what is happening on policy and what is implemented on immigration, the economy, corporate taxes. they don't want all the attention on certain policies. trump sees chaos as a way to navigate power as an outsider rather than just chaos that is a bad thing. charlie: do you expect to see a huge battle between the trump presidency and the national media? >> it is already shaping up. for example, the conversations now, the stories about the trump administration are pretty combative on all sides. kellyanne conway was speaking to reporters on monday and said the coverage has been abysmal. she doesn't like it.

about steve bannon, he has published many controversial headlines and things that have alarmed anti-semitic watch groups and racial watch groups. he is a controversial figure to be sure. that is starting the tone of the administration. jimmy carter in 1976 and billy clinton in they 1992. are outsiders and don't have many relationships in this town. charlie: you have been a great guide for us for understanding this. thank you, talk to you soon. see you next time. ♪

>> taking it to the limit, senior opec leaders hold urgent meeting to bridge the divide of production cuts. rise foracific stocks the first time in four days, and the dollar slipped back as investors question the reaction to donald trump's win. >> abu dhabi may launch more financial mergers after combining national banks. >> the chairm