this is "charlie rose." >> we begin this evening with jon the daily show. we discussed with more than that she was quick to give his post election analysis we just went . through an election. jon: what? charlie: your reaction to this election?

jon: surprise -- it all ties together. charlie: fear? jon: here's what i would honestly say. i don't believe we are a fundamentally different country today than we were two weeks ago. the same country, with all its grace and flaws and volatility and insecurity and strength and resilience exists today as existed two weeks ago. the same country that elected donald trump elected barack obama. i feel badly for the people for whom this election will mean more uncertainty and insecurity. but i also feel like this fight has never been easy and the ultimate irony of this election is, the cynical strategy of the

republicans, which is, our position is government doesn't work -- but they are not draining the swamp. mcconnell and ryan, those guys are the swamp. what they decided to do was, i'm going to make sure government doesn't work and use its lack of working as evidence of it. donald trump is a reaction not just to democrats, to republicans. he's not a republican. he's a repudiation of republicans but they will reap the benefit of his victory. in all of their cynicism, i will guarantee you, republicans are going to come to jesus about the power of government. one of the things that struck me about this election was, nobody asked donald trump what makes america great. that was the part -- charlie: he wants to make america great again. nobody said to him, what is it that makes america great?

what is it we are not doing now? jon: what are the metrics? it seems like, from listening to him, the metrics are that it is a competition. i think what many would say is what makes us great is, america is an anomaly in the world. there are a lot of people, and i think his candidacy has animated that thought, that a multiethnic democracy, a multicultural democracy, is impossible. and that is what america, by its founding, and constitutionally, is. charlie: and is becoming more and more, year by year. but do you think it is healthy that we have this now, this battle, this real sense of finding out who we are? and whether we have gone off track in some way? jon: absolutely. i would rather have this conversation openly and honestly than in dog whistles. somebody was saying there might be an anti-semite working in the

white house. i was like, have you listened to the nixon tapes? forget about advising the president. the president. have you read lbj? do you know our history? we also have to caution ourselves to the complexity of that history. i thought donald trump disqualified himself at numerous points. but there is now this idea that anyone who voted for him has to be defined by the worst of his rhetoric. there are guys that i love, that i respect, that i think have incredible qualities, who are not afraid of mexicans and muslims and blacks. they are afraid of their insurance premiums. in the liberal community you , hate this idea of creating people as a monolith. don't look at muslims as a monolith. they are individuals and it would be ignorance. but everybody who voted for trump is a monolith, is a racist. that hypocrisy is also real in our country.

this is the fight that we wage against ourselves and each other. america is not natural. natural is tribal. we are fighting thousands of years of human behavior and history to create something. is exceptional about america. this ain't easy. it is an incredible thing. >> so nice to hear from him, charlie, about this. charlie: he's very reflective. he does not miss being at comedy central, but he has a lot to say. >> i like it. i like how he, rather than dismissing trump for those who voted for him, tried to explain and understand why they voted for him, and not paint them as a monolith. charlie: all these things people talk about in terms of muslims and that, they are worried about insurance premiums. >> it shows how people jump to

conclusions. jon stewart is basically saying, calm down. america is going to be ok. charlie: but he also talks about "the daily show" and all that went on in 16 years. .t's a interesting man >> he doesn't miss it? charlie: i believe he's moved to another stage. jon stewart on cbs this morning. tomorrow night, more of that interview, talking about the election and the full interview next week on "charlie rose." ♪

the helm and charlie: tom ford is here, the

celebrated fashion designer who just directed his second film. it is called "nocturnal animals." it stars amy adams and jake jill of all. it tells the story of susan, who received a manuscript written by her estranged husband. "the hollywood reporter" calls it a melodrama with crime and suspense. here's a look at the trailer. >> do you feel like your life would turn into something you never intended? >> i'm worried about you. >> are you sleeping? >> do you remember the last time we talked? you know me. [car horn] ♪

>> my ex-husband used to call me a nocturnal animal. >> i didn't know you had an ex-husband. >> recently he sent me this book that he's written. it is violent but it is sad and he dedicated it to me. >> did you love him? >> i did something horrible to him. ♪ >> what are we going to do? >> it is a question of how serious you are about seeing justice done. >> don't do this. you will regret it. >> i really wanted to be this person that you thought i was. >> you are crazy. >> he will never find out. >> when you love someone, you

have to be careful with it. you might never get it again. >> it is fun to kill people. we should try it sometime. >> nobody gets away with what you did. nobody. charlie: i would go see that. tom: i hope you do, charlie. charlie: this is your second film, seven years after the one you last talked about at this table. why seven years? tom: i have no idea. where does life go? to a big extent, it is finding something that speaks to you. making a film takes three years. i also opened 100 stores. i had a son. life just slips away.

charlie: there are those who always want to ask this question. have you become so enamored of filmmaking that that's going to consume your life, more than fashion? tom: no. they satisfy very different creative needs for me. fashion moves very quickly. i love it. you are constantly churning out new things. film, it takes a while to get a film made. while i was editing this in my london design studio, i would edit for four or five hours, go back for a fitting, go back and edit, back for a fitting, and that collection i created, that is one of my favorite collections because i was so excited. i was so happy. i was so energized. they are very different things. i am a commercial fashion designer. i design clothes to sell. it is artistic, but not

necessarily for me art. there are fashion designers who are true artists. filmmaking, for me, is the most expressive, personal, the closest thing to art that i create. necessarily for charlie: and it lives much longer than fashion. tom: it lives forever. you can watch a film from the 1930's. you are immediately pulled in you are crying with these people. they are dead. the screenwriter is dead. the actors are dead. it is the most permanent art form that we have. charlie: this is only your second film and you are having some really nice things said about you, even comparisons to hitchcock in terms of some of the style. how did you get good? tom: flattering. i think the important thing for me always in life, and for everyone, is to have a vision. first of all i'm not young. i'm 55 years old. even though it is my second film

-- come on. a lot of people's second film, they are in their 20's. i'm an adult, i guess i have to finally say. you hopefully bring that with you. i felt very confident that i could make my first film. making my first film made me feel confident that i could make this, which is a much more complex thing. i wrote the screenplay and directed, produced it. it's much more complex. charlie: you wrote the screenplay based on what? tom: based on a wonderful book called "tony and susan" written wright in 1993. it was reprinted in the in 2011, in america after that. i loved it. i wasn't sure how i was going to adopt it. i made quite a few changes. charlie: you changed her character. she is no longer a schoolteacher. she has a gallery. he is no longer a doctor. he is a businessman.

tom: sometimes things that work as prose don't necessarily work visually, cinematically. a 400-page book can't necessarily be condensed into two hours. i believe in taking things that speak to you. the thing that spoke to me is, it is about finding people in your life that you love and not letting them go. i'm a very loyal person. i've been with the same person for 30 years. in our culture today, we not only throw things away, we throw people away. i took that central theme and layered some autobiography on it. i think you need to write about what you know and express what it is that you feel. charlie: the other thing they talk about always in the first film, and in this film, is the idea of the style that they see on the screen. it is the work of a stylist, of someone who is trying -- [laughter]

tom: go ahead, finish your sentence. charlie: you don't like it? tom: no, because style has to serve substance. charlie they do say it. : you read that in almost every review. tom: you do. luckily i have to say, mostly really wonderful reviews. the one or two that have not been so wonderful said it looks like a perfume commercial, too stylish. for me, style serves the story. if it doesn't serve the story, it is meaningless. charlie: style is in your blood, isn't it? tom: it is. charlie: you have a sense of the way things should look. tom: yes, but as it serves the story. amy adams' character, she lives in a very lacquered, highly polished, and empty world, so it is highly stylized. but, it is part of the character. charlie: what part of you is in her?

tom: she's a woman who is struggling with materialism. she's really a victim of her own insecurity. she's fallen back into believing what our culture tells you, which is if you have this and you do that, you will be happy. that may sound strange from someone who has a voice in contemporary culture, but maybe because i'm so immersed in these things, this materialism, it resonates with me in a different way. she realizes that she is actually neglected her soul, her first love, her true love, spirituality, and she's struggling with that. charlie: the idea of the hitchcockian element of this, where did that come from? were you looking for a property that could scare the hell out of us? tom: i love film noir, hitchcock, cupric, polanski, and so many directors who have directed film noirs, and it was

one of the things that attracted me to a book. this book is sent to her by her first husband. she hasn't spoken to him in 19 years. she starts to read it and it is a really violent tale. what he's saying to her is, this is how you made me feel. this is how visceral and painful it was when you ripped our family apart. so we as an audience have to feel that fear, that upset, that anger. so i loved the idea that one could communicate their feelings in such a sharp way through a piece of art. charlie: is this film in part about masculinity? tom: there is definitely part of it that is masculinity. jake plays two characters. he plays tony in the inner novel and the real-life character in the outer novel, edward. in both cases, both tony and

susan are from texas, and he's not the typical masculine guy. he's not great at football. he's not great with a gun. yet, it in the end he has a , different kind of strength. he has the strength to believe in himself, to persevere. he ultimately triumphs. of course i can relate to that. i grew up in texas. i wasn't great with a football. i was the sensitive guy who wanted to sit and paint. i was teased and tortured for it. in the end, i persevered. charlie: how did it affect you? tom: those kinds of things, when you are a kid, become such a part of everything. charlie: why does susan li him? tom: susan leaves him because he's a writer, she's been programmed by her family. they don't like him. they believe she should marry someone wealthy who can take care of her. she's quite insecure. she wants to be an artist but

she's nervous about it. she falls back on her upbringing. she abandons him for someone she things can provide her with all these things she thinks are going to make her happy. charlie: but he leaves a hole in her. tom: absolutely. hers the great love of life. by reading it, she falls in love with him all over again. charlie: what does she do? tom: we can't tell that. it would give away the ending of the film. charlie: she's trying to recapture, isn't she? tom: she is. at the end of the film, she is transformed. she has broken with her past life that has made her so unhappy. charlie: this is susan talking to her coworkers about her ex-husband. >> you didn't see him again, did you? >> no. you know me. i never sleep. my ex-husband used to call me a nocturnal animal. >> what ex-husband? since when? >> a couple of years, in

graduate school. i've been thinking about him a lot lately and recently he sent me this book that he's written. it is violent and sad and he titled it "nocturnal animals" and he dedicated it to me. >> did you love him? >> yeah, i loved him. he was a writer, and i didn't have faith in him. i panicked and i did something horrible to him, something unforgivable. >> you left him? >> i left him. i left him in a brutal way. charlie: what was the more difficult part about this film, the elder novel and inner novel? tom: it was very complex. there are three worlds, the elder story, the inner novel, and flashbacks. they all spiral into one story. i have an incredible cast with quite a few actors. just the size of it, the scope,

the complexity of the script, the number of cast members and locations, it was a much bigger film than a single man. charlie: you give her a life that seems awfully enchanting and interesting and fulfilling. on the other hand, that is part of the commentary you make. she has all this stuff and she's not quite happy and she remembers something she did terrible things to and she wants him back. you make her life a bit glamorous. tom: when you see it on film, it is hollow and empty, and even the way i shot it, the way the colors are de-saturated, it is shiny and glossy, but soulless. charlie: is there anything about your life that is hollow? do you feel some of this? tom: i have been through this. and how, and where?

tom it was probably 10 years ago : when i left gucci. i might have come on your show that time. it was an early midlife crisis. i'm glad i got it over with. someone said midlife is when you get to the top of the ladder only to find you had the ladder against the wrong wall. some of us think we want something, you get there, and you realize -- i've had the fortune to have gotten to the top. charlie: what did you do, realize, i've got to build something on my own? tom: spirituality. charlie: what did you do spiritually? tom: meditate. tao de ching is my bible. i keep the next in my bed. i read simple sentences that make you understand our place in the universe. growing up in texas and new mexico, the older i get, the more i find connection in the

more i find connection in the emptiness of that space. i hope that i live long enough so the last 10 years of my life can be spent like georgia o'keeffe, wondering the desert can be spent like georgia o'keeffe, wondering the desert with my dog, feeling connected to the universe. contemporary culture can be entertaining. a lot of us are addicted to it. at the same time, it can distract us from life, our place in the universe, why we are here, and connections to people. charlie: who was with georgia o'keeffe in the desert? tom: well, she had a very young friend called juan hamilton, who i believe was 27. [laughter] charlie: so where are you now? are you at a point -- you've got meditation, spirituality, a second film, a wonderful son, a husband, a great relationship for 40 years -- 30. tom: don't age me too much, charlie. [laughter] charlie: don't age me too much,

charlie: you've got the fashion business. so where is the drive going to come from to top this? tom: i think speaking. if you are addicted to communicating and storytelling, that is fun. what i do is so much fun. all i want is to have as many more years of it as i can possibly have. i am so lucky and i love what i do. i would like to make a movie every three or four years. hopefully not seven. i would like to continue designing clothes. i'm happy with my life. charlie: is it a hollow business? you said there are fashion designers who are true artists. i'm perhaps cynical to be a true artist. i had a run from but i've moved 1994-2004, into a different phase. i'm very innovative now. i think perhaps that is more innovative than the clothes i make. you said that in september. tom: it is true. you get to give your taste to the world once. that's it. i gave my taste to the world in the 1990's. my taste is not going to change. i think all designers who have a

strong point of view are that way. i am in the stage of being perhaps less innovative in terms of fashion because i gave the world my taste. hopefully i'm still exciting people and they are still shopping in my stores. now i find the fashion business really interesting because it is changing. innovative in that i was one of the first to show a see now, you could buy it literally as it came down the runway, and the way we market clothes, sell clothes, design clothes is , interesting. charlie: how will you fund the next film? tom: i need to get a little space from this. i finished working on it in august. i've been promoting it ever since. promoting a film can be quite exhausting. i don't know how actors do it. when we are finished promoting this i need a few months to , relax and say, ok, this is

what i want to say now. i have a very politically incorrect film i've written which is satirical and i thought perhaps was too satirical for now, but given what is going on in the world maybe not. maybe not satirical enough. i don't know. charlie: here is what i don't understand about you. you say you are preoccupied with death, that you think about it all the time. tom: i'm glad you asked that. that has been a little bit misinterpreted in the press. i'm glad i get to clarify that. charlie: this is the place to clarify. tom: what i mean by that is i've always had a clock built in and i've always been very aware that my time on this planet is limited, that your time is limited, that the time of a puppy is limited, that a beautiful flower is only going to last so long. those are the things that keep me in the present, make me enjoy the state of things that they are. it is true, every single day i think one day less.

but that means, enjoy this day. drink it in. look at it. feel it. touch it. it makes it more precious. charlie: not that you are worried about death constantly, you are allowing death to inevitably come, so live for this day. tom: exactly. charlie: let me ask you one more thing. you've got this tie -- i haven't seen one of those in a long time. tom: i've been wearing it for years. it is one of the few style affectations that a man can have. cufflinks, a tie in. charlie: and black is a good color. tom: black suits me. the important thing in life is what you feel comfortable with. charlie: this is a uniform for you. tom: absolutely. i have two suits and four shirts. that is all i need. charlie: good luck on the film. tom: thank you, charlie. ♪

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charlie: casey affleck is here. he stars in "manchester by the sea," he plays an isolated janitor forced to return to his hometown to become the guardian of his teenaged nephew. here is the trailer.

>> if you could take one guy to an island with you, if it was between me and your father, who would it be? >> my daddy. >> i think you are wrong about that. ♪ >> i don't understand. i cannot be the guardian. >> i think the idea is that you would relocate. >> relocate to here? >> it was my impression that you spent a long time here. >> no one can appreciate what you have been through. if you really feel like you cannot take this on, it is your right. >> whatever you decide, you can always stay with us.

>> do you want to be his guardian? >> hello? >> i want to call and say i'm sorry. >> strictly basement business. i am working on it. >> you do not want to be my guardian? that is fine with me. all my friends are here. i have two girlfriends and i am in band. ♪ >> i said a lot of terrible things to you. my heart was broken. >> you don't understand. >> ♪ i am coming home

>> what do you want me to do? i will just sit here until you calm down. >> will you please just go away? charlie: this is remarkable, congratulations. you feel strong about the film, your performance, the performance of others there. how did it happen? casey: i knew kenneth because i auditioned -- i was in a play of his in london and i got to know him very well. he wrote it and he was there every day and he was -- it was an incredible experience. a very bright guy about many things. very smart about acting, theater, storytelling. i maintained a friendship with

him for 20 years and i have done several other little theater things for him. at one point, matt wanted to direct a movie and asked kenny to write one for him. kenny wrote a script and matt decided he was not going to direct it and also that he would not be in it. kenny asked me to do it. i read it. he sent it to me and i started reading it when i hung up the phone and i laughed and i cried and i knew it was a beautiful piece of writing and i called him right back and said, of course. i would have said of course if you would have sent me nothing because i have that much respect for him. i said, ok, great, when do we start shooting? he said, not so fast, i am not sure we can raise the money. it is usually pretty tricky, especially with movies like

this. it is drama, a small movie. they said, this is really a $2 million movie. i said, i think we can find what we need to make the movie. i cannot believe when there is a script this good that no one will make it. i called up someone who i had been involved in another movie with and i said, would you please send the script to this person and her name is kimberly stewart and she was looking to make movies and she agreed to do the movie and she spent about $6 million or $7 million on it, which was needed to make the movie kenny wanted to make. we made it independently.

she paid for the whole thing by herself. amazon saw it at sundance. it has been a dream relationship. they supported the movie and never asked for changes and they found a way to get this little movie out into the world. there is enough attention on it. it is up to the movie to perform. charlie: it is more than that. you saw the things people are saying about this. masterpiece is not something you throw around. casey: some people do. charlie: why? what is it about the film that you think is so compelling? casey: a movie is made by so many people. they are all doing their jobs. even sometimes we start with a

first-rate script and even if you have a first-rate script and a supertalented experienced director, you do not know what you will end up with and that is the nature of making movies. everybody has to contribute in such a way that it all amounts to something. it is a mystery. maybe there are other people with more experience who say, this is how it gets done. from the moment i read it, i was confused about why it works so well. it does not follow a formula in the telling of the story and it does not have the kinds of moments in it you would expect from a movie like this to have. you might expect these two characters who are forced together who have both suffered some loss to save one another in

a very predictable way and to have some cathartic moment that results in both of them moving on to happier place in life. it does not have that, totally. it's a unique movie in that way. it works because a combination of all of the little elements, all of the things that everyone contributes. charlie: you play a guy who is emotionally closed off. casey: i am playing a guy -- i never thought of him that way. i thought of him as somebody who had such strong feelings inside of him that he had to bottle them up or else he would just fall apart. he suffered the loss in his life that was so great, the kind of thing most people would not want to survive.

and how is he going to carry on? he tries to kill himself at one page, but then decides to live and he lives in such a way that he does not have to think about his past. he is doing that because -- he is a very responsible person and he wants to take care of his brother, who is sick. his brother passes away. and then he has to take care of his nephew, who has no one to take care of him. you know, i think -- there are many scenes in this movie where i felt like it was almost too difficult to contain the emotion because the nature of the part. the film has a lot of restraint and kenny shows great restraint in a way that he shot it and in our conversations about how to portray the character, it was clear he wanted the character to be a very emotional person dealing with an emotional -- with a lot of sadness and grief

and overwhelming at different moments but always to keep a very tight lid on it and let it only out in a few moments in the movie to show what is inside the pot. that might be one of the reasons why it is so emotional watching it. i was surprised at the amount of people i would hear crying in the theater. nobody really wants to cry audibly in a movie theater. you know if that is happening, it means it is a real emotional experience for them. i guess it worked. charlie: of course it did. in terms of the response. it is a bit about grief, a film

about grief, a film about change, a film about what else? a film about being a substitute parent. casey: it's about responsibility and -- i am a parent. i have two boys and i do not think i would have understood the movie if i did not have kids and i know that is a big part of it. it is also about, you know, about -- it is the kind of thing that it is hard to say succinctly what it is about. my favorite pieces are like that. shame and grief and loss and responsibility and love and how all of those things are mixed together and our best memories are mixed in together with our most painful memories.

the movie is told in such a way that it jumps back-and-forth between two periods. all of his memories and what is happening at the present. it is jumbled up together, all of this pain and joy. charlie: and the reconciliation with his wife. casey: he has come back to this small town to take care of his nephew and he has not seen his ex-wife in many years and they both went through a terrible tragedy together and he is terrified of running into her. it is one of the reasons he does not want to be her. he does not want to return to manchester by the sea because of these difficult memories. he is terrified of having to run into her, although he loves her

very much, and he does not want to hurt her and he does not want to be reminded of all of the things that happened to him. >> i do not have anything big to say. i know you have been around. >> to get patrick settled in. >> it seems like he has done pretty good considering. >> i think he is. >> i guess you don't know this, but i kept in touch -- >> i know. >> i didn't know. can we have lunch? >> us? you and me? charlie: a great performance, remarkable performance. casey: he is a very talented young man and he has been working for a while.

since he was a little kid. he is no johnny-come-lately. he is experienced, talented, his father was a director, and he has been around movie sets and he is 17 and his mom was there the whole time and she was lovely and he was completely handling the situation on his own. charlie: your brother is an actor and a producer and the director. do you wish for those kinds of roles as well? casey: sometimes. as an actor, you get to a point where you realize, for most actors, if you want to get really good parts, you have to make them up yourself. you try to start writing, getting books and plays. controlling those properties and turn them in to movies.

so they will not be made by those 20 people who are more popular actors than you are. mostly for the purposes of being able to do better stuff. i directed a movie with a good friend of mine, joaquin phoenix, it was a mockumentary. it was a great time, very unconventional. it got some very good reviews and a whole lot of very bad reviews. a lot of people did not like it. i was happy with it. charlie: do you look at this role, and you read it and when you were there on a set, do you say -- yes! this is why i'm an actor.

this is the kind of thing that makes me feel whole. casey: yes, i do. when i read it, i thought, this is what i want to do as an actor. these are kinds -- these are the kind of roles you wait for. it's complicated. a big part of an actor's job is to show up on set with the appropriate feelings. what the character is supposed to have. someone else has written all of the words you are going to say. someone else has decided where the light will be in the room. your job is to understand what you are saying and what you are feeling. when i read that, i thought, this is an opportunity to play a lot of different things and to do it in a style that i really like which is naturalistic. it does not tell you in every moment exactly what he is feeling.

the character is very terse. he speaks to people -- he is curt and there is a chance to feel all of the silences and these one-word answers with a lot of feeling. as a supplement, as a way of saying, this is also what is happening inside, which you cannot write on the page. and to work with someone like kenny, who is just one of my favorites. charlie: you watch them over and over and over again. looking for different meanings, looking for different nuances? casey: all of that. sometimes just watching and seeing what happens.

there are things to discover in a movie that is done with care that you do not find in the first viewing or the first reading. you read something once and you read it again and if you do not find something else, it is an indication that maybe you should not do the movie. i go back to plays kenny has written and find new things. charlie: how did he help make this performance that came out of you? casey: he likes actors and he is very patient with actors and he is open to them doing things their way in bringing whatever -- their own experiences, talking to them about their life. here is a scene where a man goes to the hospital and the doctor tells him his brother has passed away.

what is your impulse about this moment? what is your instinct? how should this be played? charlie: did he ask you that? casey: he likes to help. charlie: and you find out later that he has left you with a certain responsibility. casey: first, you think, ok, who is this guy and what is he bringing from his past to the moment? he lost his children some years ago and he will react in this moment very differently. how differently? what does that do to someone? he does not want to deal with anybody's sympathy. it is a reminder. he does not -- he does not like the way -- to feel like -- he does not want to let anyone in.

he controls the situations. he drives the conversations so they do not go into an area too painful for him. charlie: this is the best thing that has ever happened to him. to give him an opportunity to recover. from what had been a devastating occurrence. casey: yes. charlie: this presented an opportunity. casey: he saw it as something he was incapable of doing. i am not capable of being a caretaker. charlie: because of what happened to me. casey: because of what happened to me, i can't do it. i have to find another way of taking care of this kid. someone else will have to do it. i cannot talk to this kid. he is stuck with it and i guess that results in a positive change for him.

charlie: what is it about acting that you like so much? is it to be able to present yourself and say, this is an interesting guy going through an interesting thing, a life altering experience? how do you get inside of it and how do you convey to an audience what it is he is going through and how they may connect to something that resonates in our life? casey: that is a lot to take on. some of it, you have to leave to chance a little bit. what i like about being an actor, part of me wants to say i have no idea and part of me wants to say, i really do not like being an actor, and part of me wants to say i love being an actor.

i think i really just like thinking about why people behave the way they do. you read a script and you say, why does he do this, why does he do that? they are very hard to articulate. people write psychological textbooks about it. you can do it with a glance and it is fun. charlie: delving into your career, people have known how good you were for a while. casey: who? where are they? can we have them on the show? charlie: surprise, surprise. bring them out, here they are. you have known you are really good. you could not be that good without knowing it. casey: i am not sure if you can be that good and know it.

i don't think -- i look at other actors and think, if i could do that, that is something else. charlie: give me an example. casey: sean penn. daniel day-lewis. marlon brando. the obvious people. cate blanchett. they have an ability to seem like other people in a realistic way, in a way that is not showy, but in a way with empathy and it lets the audience in. you understand yourself and you leave the movie or the play and you think, i really understood that person and i feel for them and you have been moved for a minute and provoked to some thought, whatever those thoughts might be, and your life overlaps

with their life. movies and drama, a bridge between people, even cultures sometimes. that is why we have been doing it since the beginning of time. charlie: congratulations. you just described what you did in this movie. casey: thank you. charlie: it is true. that is what you did in this film, and you know that. casey: i hope so. it's not always easy to watch yourself. i hope i have many years ahead of me in other roles. you get a little bit better. charlie: speaking of your brother, do you and your brother have a different idea about fame? casey: probably not. he might have a higher tolerance

for the negative aspects maybe. he can tolerate more of the stuff that comes along with it that is undesirable. and maybe a greater appreciation for the things that come along with it that are desirable. it is not something we have talked a whole lot about so i would not want to put words in his mouth. there are a lot of challenges that come along with any career that you choose. if you dabble, get outside of the bubble of hollywood, you experience life a little, you find having to deal with fame is not as hard as what other people are dealing with in the world. charlie: worried about food and shelter and illness. casey: the survival of their family.

charlie: this is a remarkable film. thank you. ♪

carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." in this week's issue, a look at the world of president-elect donald trump and who he surrounds himself with and what that means for wall street and main street. oliver: plus, the fear that has taken hold in tech town. carol: and why california says they may be better off with out trump's america. oliver: all of that head on "business week." carol: we are here with ellen pollack.