john: i'm john heilemann. i'm mark halperin. and "with all due respect" to net romney who is reportedly having dinner with donald trump, would you consider secretary of steak? ♪ of novemberaccused monday. more fallout from fidel castro's on the campus of ohio state university this morning. we start the week with three unsolved mysteries. lady's get to the green recount, but first of the riddle of kellyanne conway and an ongoing secretary of state thriilla.

it took a few interesting twists. for some time it appeared that choicesd narrowed his to former gotham city mayor rudy giuliani and to mitt romney, the former republican presidential nominee, and in the past a d j.ferous critic of donald j trump. but his chances were said to diminished. also push back against trump reporters and a brazen series of rebukes from transition adviser kellyanne conway sparked a classic sunday morning tv frenzy. >> this seems like a pretty bitter internal battle going on in the transition team over the nation. diplomat decision. >> for more new york city mayor julie -- rudy giuliani is a top contender.

>> mitt romney potentially next secretary of state, rudy giuliani also thought to be a contender as well. >> the people closest to him throughout some of the toughest times and that campaign you do not like the idea of mitt romney on principle and greatly prefer rudy giuliani. >> kellyanne conway's comments, where they sanctioned or is trump angry with her? -- angry with her? >> she is risking a lot. what if she chooses -- what if he chooses mitt romney. just but everyone is saying how dare she speak out of turn permission? my thought is, how refreshing. >> this guy through you under the bus at every turn. e senses that with mitt romney you could have a secretary of state presiding over a rogue agency. is not saying mitt

romney is going to be secretary of state. this is just saying kellyanne conway hurt herself going rogue at the worst possible time. >> why do we think she is going rogue? why don't we think she is channeling donald trump, her boss, who has soured on mitt romney? [laughter] mark: all right, one of the non-romney contenders went to trump tower. how did it go general petraeus? around, showed us the variety of the challenges and some opportunities as well. great conversation. we will see where it goes from here. tomorrow, the next president of these united states will sit down with tennessee's bob worker, also thought to be under consideration. and then he will have another meeting with mitt romney, reportedly over a tuesday night dinner.

and we will talk about kellyanne conway's curious comments from the week and no moment, but john, more broadly, where do you think trump is headed? john: i have this feeling that the goldilocksis candidate here. i think trump wants to reward want to, but does not spark that degree of criticism. i think the romney thing, i think he is toying with romney, playing peekaboo with a baby. is someone petraeus he has respected and admired for a long time. i think that is the direction we could be headed. is about a petraeus guy in a charmer. i think the vetting issues is something that he wants to avoid. i do not think the senate republicans will harshly that too many people, but petraeus may end up with the short stick sibley because of the vetting issue. i still think kelly or romney are the two best choices.

no one wanted to talk about where the stands. everyone says, this is trump's pick. i do believe giuliani will get it. corker is an interesting pick. he has more relations, but trump has the image -- john: bob corker is a very smart guy, but he does not cut that figure. petraeus though does. romney clearly does. trump has said that. he looks like a secretary of state. petraeus -- i know there are vetting issues. it is true. but i think it is more than just the republican senate. at it is also that a lot of republicans in the senate are on record wasng they think petraeus wrongly treated, he was cast aside in a way that was not commensurate with the crimes, that hillary clinton did much worse things in terms of handling classified material -- mark: i will say this. the mystery here, which i tried

to get at the bottom of this and i failed, is where is mike pence on this? mike pence was bullish on rummy. there were other people who tried to get a romney rally going. have at that they will long meeting says to me that i think trump is still interested. but where is mike pence on this? all feels like part of the reason -- my gut, and i'm just doing this on got, too low. i have asked everyone in the world and cannot get a straight answer. i think this is one where trump feels he owns this pick. mark: we are way over. one more strike against petraeus . that is some indication trump thinks having a retired military as head of the national security council and secretary of state is a retired general too far. john: that would be a reasonable thought in my view. we talked about kellyanne conway already. in theght the hell

political world when she took the meat cleaver to romney, saying trump is betraying his backers by even considering is on be former massachusetts governor. the president-elect was furious, according to some sources, furious, with conway for going public with her criticisms. there are theories galore about what conway was doing when she took out the meat cleaver and why she was doing it. what is your take question mark -- what is your take? mark: what is interesting on the sunday shows -- he did on twitter and then walked to back. donald trump is someone who can be furious one moment perfectly happy. john: sometimes the same moment. mark: also true, there are long knives out for kellyanne conway. and though she says it is of her own choosing, she does not have a job yet in this enterprise. donald trump really likes kellyanne conway. and kellyanne conway is not

stupid. i just don't have the answer to whether trump had any idea she was when to say what she said, authorized it, suggested, whatever. i can tell you this. she does not feel any less confident about her place in trump world today than yesterday. she might be seeing the long knives, but she is not less confident. john: i will really a firm one fact. kellyanne conway has driven me crazy on the show because she is hard to get any straight answer out of. she spends like crazy. she will not address a direct question. mark: not like a sean spicer or jason miller. john: but not a dummy. a very smart woman. the second thing that is manifestly true, we saw through the entirety of the campaign -- donald trump chaos. he thrives on chaos. he likes chaos. he likes to hit people against each other. [bell rings] her,'t know the authorized but it would not surprise me. even if he is. it's with her, he sort of likes

what is going on right now. mark: and my point about john spicer and jason miller -- john: a cheap shot. just say it. it's a cheap shot. mark: worse for the empire. [laughter] all right, we have a series of trump tweets and about 6 million books -- 6 million bucks. pulled, green party felt for aill stein recount in wisconsin, citing computer scientist concerns with voting machines that have somehow been hacked. there is no real evidence to back that claim, but she successfully raised more than $6 million so far for recounts, and took steps to initiating a similar recount in pennsylvania today with a plan to do the same in michigan later this week. three states whose results, if somehow overturned, would give hillary clinton the presidency. over the weekend, clinton's

elias, wrote a post on medium -- some sort of website -- saying the campaign will assist now that the efforts are under way to ensure that the process proceeds in a matter -- in a manner that is fair to all sides. donald trump lashed out on twitter to jill stein and clinton, and then he turned it up, spreading out fully on the steps to -- unsubstantiated claims of election fraud by tweeting this -- "i would have won the popular vote if you did at the millions of people who voted illegally." he also tweeted "serious voter fraud in new hampshire, virginia, california. why is it the media reporting on this?" what are clinton and trump up to with jill stein's recount effort? john: when donald trump 20 that thing about the landslide and how he would have won the tweeted, two i

lies for the price of one. this has been persistent with donald trump since the moment he entered this race. he lies all the time. sometimes he tells small life. sometimes he tells big life. he is the president-elect. it was bad enough when he was a candidate going around trying to undermine be legitimately of the system, but to claim without any evidence whatsoever that millions of illegal people voted passing thatand in he won the electoral college by 306ndslide when he got electoral votes, which is not a landslide by any means -- why? there is no purpose. it is just bad. it is -- it portends badly for the future. it's bad for him. it's that america. it's that for the children. it's bad for everybody. i hope he did this without asking anybody. i would hope if he asked before he tweeted they would say, don't do that. it is no longer proper.

it was improper before, but as you said, we are in different days -- to tweet something unsubstantiated, no evidence -- john: the president-elect. the president-elect. mark: the thing that hillary clinton for a lawyer wrote on the web was very nuanced and reasoned. it says we do not expect to overturn the results. yada, yada, yada. doing this,ump are democrats would be up in arms. what is the point? they should just say, we see no evidence anything was wrong. we are staying out of it and we are hoping for the success of the president-elect. john: that is all he said. mark: he said they would protect the paint. he put their imprint on it. he said -- john: trump would never -- mark: i agree. john: he would be totally unreasonable. he would say we do not expect to achieve this outcome. mark: in a world where reason

pervades, great. go on medium.net, whatever it is, read that thing. all right, would we come back, we talk about the mixed reactions to the death of fidel castro. we will also talk about what donald trump and others are saying about the dead communist leader right after this quick break. ♪

♪ memorial services began in the vana today following the death of cuban leader dell castro, who -- in havana today following the death of cuban leader fidel castro, who died at the age of 90.

president obama and vice president biden will not be in attendance to the funeral. was panned for not making mention of the violence under castro's rule. donald trump issued a scathing statement about the "little theator" and tweeted about economy. he said "fidel castro is dead!" and that was it. that was actually true. and then he said, if cuba is willing to make a better deal for the american people in the cuban american people -- is unwilling to make a better deal for the mayor people in the cuban american people, i will terminate deal. how do you think the president elect is handling this? mark: not horribly. he is leaving as options open. he is playing not just to the base of the republican party -- or some of it because the public and party is divided -- but he

is playing with the instinct for the style he is going to have. but it shows that on this issue in a range of others he will have a ton of running room or it how much, with a big domestic agenda, how much do they want to shake the world up by going on offense? everybody talking about he will be tested by china or isis, whatever. there is some thought in the trump camp on cuba, iran, other areas -- go big early, shake the world up. ,ohn: there is no good reason from the standpoint of a free-market republican or a liberal democrat, to go back and undo what has been done with respect to normalizing relations with cuba. we took a long time to get there. this is not an obama left wing thing. countless people, countless business people, fortune 500 ceo's, was three people, free market economists have been arguing for it as the best way to normalize the economy -- mark: not the base of the

republican party. i agree with you. [bell rings] on theet's try to rule merits. i want to say rule on the merits. we will be right back to talk with two reporters on donald trump's transition and the aide everyone is profiling, steve bannon. right after this. ♪

♪ welcome back. joining us from capitol hill, abc news correspondent kelly o'donnell, those tracking the transition. we're talking four or five numbers -- names for several

state. one of them, bob corker, who was considered for the running mate for a time. why is he on a list with all of these other very impressive people? the moment he is the seniormost foreign policy kind of responsible person on capitol hill in that he is the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee. that is a post which really hasn't you talked to a lot of ministerial level officials from all over the world. he is constantly thinking of issues that are the same portfolio as secretary of state. so, he has got that. in his former life, he was a real estate investor, so he can speak trump in that way, as a businessman, and he's a traditional republican among in sortrly to come out of quiet supportive donald trump. he is not waving the flag so much, but he cited things he thought were positive in trump, policies, and back to those. that gives trump and his menu of someone from the

traditional mold who has a portfolio that would work. john kerry, our current secretary of state, was really sleepy head of the foreign relations committee. it gives you an idea of that was previously head of the foreign relations committee. it gives you an idea of that portfolio for the trump administration. john: we are also bringing in to o'donnell, matt, who has recently done a piece on steve bannon. run in a crowd that has known steve bannon for a long time, and one of the things coming out of these profiles is the notion that some of the more controversial things he has espoused and provided a platform for he may not actually believe. tell us what your piece tells us about that question and what your reporting has revealed. of his talked to many

classmates at harvard business school, where he went for two years. almost universally, people did not hear the type of rhetoric that is often associated with him now. there was no anti-somatic lane which, racist language. the conclusion many of his classmates draw is he found the market place where there is a segment of our society that is interested in that type of rhetoric. that,art provides some of and bannon has used his skills at harvard business school to foret toward some of that breitbart. but bannon himself, a lot of these people believe, does not believe those things that are promoted on the website he has been running. concernlly, there was on capitol hill when bannon was named. people seem more comfortable with reince priebus. are they getting more comfortable with the notion of being on team bannon?

kelly: they can find comfort in saying a president-elect should be able to choose those around him. democrats very strongly against bannon, citing all of the things you were just talking about that came out through breitbart as , whoof the bannon economy wanted to have things that would strike a marketplace where there are people who want to see those provocative ideas. democrats very uncomfortable. republicans saying things like they don't know him yet, and also looking for any strands that build him up. for example, , the republican jewish coalition, says they do not believe he is anti-semitic. that has gone a long way to bolster him. mostly it has been avoidance or tiptoeing, trying to get behind the fact that there are many other jobs to be filled and republicans on capitol hill are keeping their powder dry when it comes to steve bannon. john: i've a question for each

of you. i will start with you, kelly. petraeus david, and -- david petraeus, and whether or not -- he of easley has getting issues, but with those be problematic enough to keep him from being secretary of state or would they be easily overcome? kelly: i think there would be a lot of explaining that he made a mistake, owned up to the mistake, paid a price for the mistake, and he has a large portfolio of experience that is key to that position. you would have some republicans -- the mccain-graham coalition -- that would strongly support david petraeus in a foreign holocene wolpert it is a challenge to get around the obvious that he was convicted of a misdemeanor about revealing secrets, especially with the clinton he, and we are not sure that is entirely over.

that makes it difficult. in terms of the david petraeus most lawmakers knew in their interactions, you've got a lot of praise and respect for his service to his country and his knowledge about the issues that are really front burner for anyone in that job going forward. ohn: matt, as a "boston globe" guy, i know you have covered a lot of mitt romney and his world. is there any sense that donald trump is toying with mitt romney and about to publicly humiliate him? is not a concern in romney world. they do not want mitt romney to be swept up for something. the meeting last week, 90 minutes long, sort of gave assurances that this was something were serious than a staged meeting. than having dinner tomorrow night is an indication of seriousness, but there is still a fair amount of caution in romney world about where this may lead. there is a hope that romney is

taken seriously by the trump campaign because they believe mitt romney would be good in that role, but there is still skepticism, i think, among his supporters. viser writes for the paper of presidents or at least presidential candidates and kelly o'donnell, nbc news. up, donald trump, the transition, the recount, and oh, so much more. right after this. ♪

♪ ♪ mark: we are back, a really big shoe, with the editor of "the new york times," the king.

james bennet. going to be called that every time you come back on the show. mark: you hear from a lot of people on the left that the press must hold donald trump accountable. james: do not normalize. organizations, like yours, on the news side have, in many respects, editorial pieces, denouncing things that he dies. you used to be a working reporter. what could the press at large do more than we are doing to hold him accountable? james: this is a question i think we are asking ourselves all of the time right now. is -- you know, times of doubling down, washington, and other papers, other news organizations are, are just because there

silly questions about potential conflicts of interests and what will happen with his business interests, how that might affect foreign or domestic policy. i think there are a lot of questions we have to ask ourselves, you know? example of onen thing. if the heads of the top organizations were called in, what is one thing that people could do, news organizations, reporters, editors, producers could do to hold him accountable? james: i think more --estigative importing reporting. but what you were talking about earlier, the fact is he has his as heant megaphone, should as president-elect and then president, and he has a pattern of denying widely --epted reality, and that is we are in uncharted waters. mark: there was an incredibly

great piece over the weekend, a very long piece, where they broke it down market by market. there were tons of things in there that raised red flags, and yet, i have no sense of that inacting donald trump's life any way. james: i agree with you, and we, as journalists, need to do the best jobs that we can, which is reporting the truth, being fair, toiously, and trying understand the man in full and his interests, his side of the but it is ultimately up to the citizens in how they receive and process those messages, and, you know, the in this election. editorial boards like mind were arguing for a different outcome. we did not get the outcome we were arguing for, and i think we do have to ask ourselves hard questions about how we should be reaching people, whether we are reaching them as effectively as

we would like to be in this day and age. john: a conventional conversation. mark: totally my fault. john: backing up the something you said a moment ago. like you said, there is this great debate going on, and there was this weekend about reince priebus. so within the halls of "the new york times" at the high as levels, is there a posture on this question, should the press -- what is the posture on normalization? he is clearly not a normal president-elect. he is doing things that are breaking president every moment, right? what is a posture with respect to -- doesn't have a posture with respect of normalizing this man as president -- does it have a posture with respect to normalizing this man as president? james: what do we mean by "normalizing"?

get ust think that will very far. if what we mean is we should not except that it is normal for a president of the united states to have this many conflicts of has,est as donald trump you know, yes, yes, again, he is quite cunning about this stuff, and that is the way he articulates it, and he has got a point, by the way, that it is not the same thing as saying therefore he has no conflicts of interest that would impact on policy, so, you know, we can put a whole lot of things in a bucket and call that "normalizing the presidency," when what we are trying to do is report as aggressively as possible. john: so last night, when trump tweeted who said that he had won by a landslide, and that he had won the popular book, which was

a lie -- how to handle that? that aresserts things demonstrably untrue, and we as reporters say "that is demonstrably untrue," and then we hear back that "you guys are all biased," in some ways, it strengthens him. saying things and drawing the rebukes, his followers then say, against the trump world. in some way, do you suspect that he is playing a very cunning game by line like he does, by saying that the sky is -- a cunning game by lying like he does, by saying that the sky is red as opposed to lou -- to blue? james: i think it is deeper than that. there is this notion that is loose in the land that there is a narrative, the story you tell,

and he has his version of the fax, and you have your version of the facts, -- he has his version of the facts. like climate change. the other side continues to insist that the case has improved, and i think it is scary for the whole country. we used to talk about "spin," about a version of the truth that you were just trying to put on the best possible -- but now, we are just operating hopelessly off the field, and he never, that i know of, ever says, "oh, yes, i got that one wrong. let me go back and do it over." about whether he was lying or whether the right word -- as a factual matter -- became ace he

presidential candidate -- james: i have to give that some thought. we have said some good things about him, including the boldness of his infrastructure plan, when he threw the big number out there. no, we have. in fairness, we have given credit to him for different positions that he has taken as a candidate. ok.: james: but, in fact, the campaign is kind of able or -- is kind of a blur for me. we shall we shall see. not because he was not great, because he was. when we come back, john's inter view. you are not going to want to miss it, and if you are in washington, d.c., you can always listen on 99.1 fm on your radio

device. we will be right back. ♪

♪ ♪ this might turn out to be evergreen. the number one billboard. it might be because it is a masterful reunion record or that it is put a goal seems with perfect timing, just three days --er donald trump's election masterful reunion record or that it is because it had perfect timing. as millions of americans, especially those of color, are still coming to terms with what trump's election may mean, a tribe called quest. q-tip cametatic when

for a conversation. we started talking about his appearance after the election when dave chapelle said that he was willing to give donald trump a chance if you was willing to do the same. i asked him if he was willing to too?trump a choice, >> i guess you do not have any choice because he is the president, but it is just a lot disillusionment with him, because he has been a public figure for over 30 years. i think that the platform that he ran on is one of -- is very scary. .t is extremely polarizing it is divisive. it is not necessarily inclusive,

and it is dangerous and is one that brings about an almost absolute fear. i would want to give someone but that a chance, per se, the actuality of the situation is that he is the president, and people voted for him, although i did not vote for him. he is the incumbent, and, you know, he is my president now. i said before, this record was unusually political, unusually political for modern-day hip-hop. "saturdayou did on night live," and then off the record, i thought it was a great performance that you gave, and we immediately saw people twee new nationalour anthem. i want to put the lyrics up here. tell me what you were thinking about. just give me the open here. you becausebelieve

we the people are still here we do not need you you are killing off the good, young [beep] when we get hungry, we eat the same the chorus is all of you mexicans, you must go so all of the bad folks, you must go ♪ john: just unpack that for me. really real. we do not have much faith in our political figures, because time and time again, we've see broken promises, broken agendas, lines between different aisles of the party. we see a lot of infighting, and

then you expect us to believe that you really have our best interest? dialing back globalization. of you trying to have kind like a real -- it just seems like our interests as people are not really valued, only at election time. these things come up that are kind of pertinent and near and dear to us, so -- and we are still here. we do not need you. that line is saying that we as people have to understand our power. we have to understand that, you know, the president elect -- you know, the whole cabinet, they , and we put them in their office. our moneys pay their salaries. they are supposed to be

representing our necessities and supporting our dreams and the ideas and the principles of this country. they are not just sort of flowery, hemingway. it is a real deal, and we hold you accountable, and in the eep],ng of good, young [b that is where we are speaking to what i believe the continuation of slavery. abolished, and you thought that it goes to jim crow , and, you know, you get to the civil rights movement, obviously, and then the industrial complex, and that has been kind of like, you know, front and center over the past 20 years. good energy surrounding the reversal of that.

horrific and, out you know, executions of black men. hn: it is clear to me when i think about this record that you guys were tapped in in the little less than a year you were making it, you were tapped into a lot of the fear. you were tapped into it early. the record is part. that is what i think the record is so resonant. afraid of the incoming administration, that they are tolerant of racism? that things are going to get ugly and dad for people of color ? does that worry you, and what are you going to do about it? >> there are going to be a lot of voters who voted for trump that if he does not come through with what he ran on, that group

is going to be very irate, and --re is already a group here the antithesis of everything that he ran for who are scared, right? so you have fear. you have anger. think that is a cocktail that if it is not settled and dealt with in transparency and truth, and we do not know where you are shooting from, and you continue to stoke that flame, it is going to wind up blowing up. i think it is going to be a problem. i fear for -- me, do i fear for the people? no, because i think that people are so at the edge of their emotions that any kind of reservations they have are long gone. -- thisnk that it is

-- he andhas a lot his team have a lot on their hands, and this is going to be interesting to watch. onn: we will have more q-tip, including his thoughts on kanye west, next. ♪

♪ ♪ john: and now, we are back with part two of our conversation with q-tip of a tribe called quest. kanye west. he was maybe going to be a little bit more on the record. he has now canceled his tour. he was hospitalized for

exhaustion and went online and said he voted for tgrump. -- for trump. what do you think of that? : it is difficult. is my brother. it is difficult because i love him, and i reached out to him, and i hope we can talk, and i will probably leave it there, because i really care about that remarks ares something that require he and i having a really serious conversation. back.i went to go this record is obviously -- you a reunion and came back as a family and made this record, and now it is successful. it is made in his memory, in his honor, in some respects. wayhis like enough in some

to patron beat to him, or is there something else that you are looking for -- is this enough in some way to pay tribute to him, or is there something else that you're looking for? i am totally satisfied, but i think in a personal sense, i will always crusade for him, just because that is my boy. just ecstatic about everything and the way that it has all unfolded, you know? like i remember that night. i think i was -- i think he was a teen, another was 17 -- i , another was 17, and i just had a birthday.

so just thinking thoughts like that, you know? just in a friend sense and a brother sense. i am definitely happy that it could not have been scripted better, a poetic justice. does it sadden you that he is not around? q-tip: for sure. a part of me is sad. john: are you going to tour with the record? i don't know. people have been asking. john: we want to know. q-tip: i don't know. i don't know. know, because it is hard to really tackle that. like that is my guy. you know what i am saying? how do we approach it? it then you want to deliver

just because of the music, and you want to move that music around, and you want to share and exchange, but also what this record seems to be shaping up to mean to people and where we are at, we should may be take that, but i do not know. i am sitting here thinking. it is hard to figure out. q-tip: it is. would you come out? john: all you have to do is ask. i will give it a shot. q-tip: we're going to do a show. you are in the house. john: a microphone check. q-tip: handshake? john: i am 6'5". i have got the roughneck business. i do. .hanks to q-tip

that was great. his new record is "we got it from here," and "thank you 4 your service." we will be back. ♪

♪ with john's full interview q-tip is available, and it is on bloomberg. and girls who code. i love girls who code. we'll be back here tomorrow, channel.time, same bat sayonara. ♪

ankle: i am courtney collins, and you are watching "bloomberg technology." with david fort

tereus, a pick for secretary of state, and his name has been floated as an alternative choice amid concern of mitt romney. petreaus.s >> he basically walked us around the world, and showed us a variety of challenges that are out there and some of the opportunities, as well, so a very good conversation. we will see where it goes from here. courtney: it is official. michigan, andon the state certified's victory nearly three weeks after the election. the margin is the closest presidential race in michigan in more than 75 years. and thousands of cubans lined up to mark the start of the week long