♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: "live by night" is the new film from ben affleck. it is based on the best-selling book by dennis lehane. it follows outlaw joe coghlan as he travels from the boston underground to the rum running world of teva, florida. joining me is ben affleck. the film also stars christmas sena, chris cooper, and sienna miller. i'm pleased to have all of them at the table. i'll start with the director, and star, and producer. -- to give want this this a feeling of a classic. what does that mean?

then: -- ben: i wanted to feel like the kind of epic holiday movie that was a blockbuster when that was about scope and sweep and scale and customs and stats and transporting you, an audience member somewhere, stories, harkening back to the warners gangster movies of the 30's and 1940's. angels with dirty faces, white heat, those movies. i wanted to make sort of a love letter to that era of hollywood. charlie: a tough challenge. ben: yeah, it was hard. charlie: you start with good actors. good script, good book. john said directing is 90% casting. there's a lot of truth in that. i got really lucky in that my first choice people showed up to do the movie. so it was -- otherwise it would have been an impossible task. charlie: hard to adapt? then: --

ben: yeah, it was small. the book was long and really rich and nuanced. there are some things that were modular, but then you lost a thematic piece. trying to keep all the things that were interesting and complicated. and still have a movie that respected the audience's time. charlie: let me ask everybody to tell me about the character they played in the time we have. first, who is joe? >> joe is a son of a police, -- police a policed captain very disillusioned by , what he saw. it transformed him into a guy who wasn't going to follow anybody else's orders. charlie: the son of a police superintendent. ben: yes. >> exactly. >> >> i play emma gould, an irish immigrant, daughter of a pimp, murderous uncle, wrong side of the tracks, gangsters. they -- a pretty compelling character. charlie: and her relationship

to? >> she is just trying to survive on the arm of a few monsters. got as close as she was able. to falling in love with ben's character, joe. >> i play the chief of police in tampa, sort of keep an eye on joe. may want to cut out a little section for their business. i show them their parameters and give it blind eye to it. charlie: so you will allow them to go only so far. >> exactly. >> i'm his daughter in the film. she lived in florida and wants to go to hollywood to become a star. but doesn't quite make it there. she experiences a dark time and when she comes home, she's born again and becomes an evangelist preacher and starts preaching against alcohol and drugs and gambling, during the prohibition.

>> i play joe's right hand man. very loyal friend and brother. charlie: and bodyguard, impart. >> sure, if you can believe that. 40 pounds heavier. charlie: you bulked up for this? i did. the character in the book was very round, and so being next to him i decided the only way to be the heavy was to gain weight. charlie: joe comes back, and decides he's going this direction. at the same time, he doesn't feel that he is of that world. >> he tries to maintain his own independent compass. he wants to have his own sort of moral universe. he ultimately finds out we don't have that luxury. charlie: he wants to have his own, but he can't make choices like that. >> ultimately there is a price

to be paid for the things we do. charlie: is this the way you would like to write? right to work? you find a piece of property, you are going to star in it. i assume it is part of the price you would have to pay to get it going. >> in this case, i love the part. it was a really great, gangsterng, fun, pulpy leading role. when you are going to direct a movie, you do so much work you , do so much research, it is so all-encompassing that it felt like i might as well act in it. charlie: you said this was one of the fun experiences for you. >> it was spectacular filming this movie. the cast, principally, and the crew were amazing. charlie: how was it some experiences can be as he

described this? does it come from one person setting the vision or does it come from -- what? >> i think it comes from the top. his sets are very relaxed, calm, inviting -- you are allowed to play. charlie: trust was probably a keyword. >> yeah. there is so much trust in him and all the people he brings around. unfortunately you are dying to leave. charlie: you develop some idea of repentance in your character. yes? >> yeah. well, he has to deal with these boys, and there is compromise there, and then my daughter takes this trip, as she mentions, and everything turns upside down. irving figures

realizes how she has been mishandled and it drives him crazy. crazy. he cannot handle it. then she gets into the religion, and i get into it with her. charlie: your character tells joe he doesn't plan to see old age. >> i think, you know, my character for me represents the night in live by night. he's committed to the night. he loves being a gangster. he says he will live this way and die this way. it was a great character to play. it is amazing on the page, so much there, so much fun. charlie: -- does hover over this the idea of the american dream? >> yeah i think extra stories , are classic american ambition stories. what their ambitions are for our

criminal empires, but it makes for great metaphor and a lot of fun, and certainly makes for great drama. charlie: why do they go from boston to tampa? >> tampa was where a lot of rum and molasses was brought in from the island. it was a great port of entry for getting rum and molasses up to boston. the connections they make in boston, a move down and try and take over and continue to compete with other interested parties to sell rum. clip whereis is a ben and sienna plan their ill-fated escape from boston. >> where will we go? >> somewhere warm. thought danny was in california. i don't know much about honest work i got a tell you. >> we go where we want to go.

sleep by day. got a job in lawrence on saturday. free to leave. charlie: what this am a representative joe? >> he just falls completely in love with her and it is a love he senses is dangerous, impulsive. without any cognitive -- >> she is the love of his life in a sense? >> she represents that kind of love, crazy, headstrong, without regards for consequences. they get in -- each other in trouble. charlie: your character wears white a lot. >> pretty much only wears white. charlie: signifying purity? >> i think purity, and you see

one time she wears black, but after everything she's gone through, she becomes addicted to heroin. i have track marks, and i think that she -- charlie: dad must love that. >> definitely not. wayshe, in an interesting she's kind of a circus animal , because she is a performer. part of her performance is that she wears white. that's her thing. charlie: here's a clip in which chris welcomes joe, ben to tampa. here it is. >> how you doing? look at you. >> sorry about your father. >> thank you. listen, i thought it was a straight bamboozle. then, i thought if anyone can charm the devil, it smiled partner. look at this. would you look at this?

here after you. ,i work for you now. reach under the seat and you'll find a friend. charlie: love it. so for all the conflict with gangsters, this becomes your competition, doesn't it? >> yes. part of the morality story, he's competing for the souls of the people. you know, and its about -- it's complicated and interesting and i wanted her character to really have -- to be making a very salient point, not to hold up the prohibitionist as a caricature because we decided it was to end prohibition, but to look at the public health issue that alcohol was. it was viewed as a crisis and it was a serious attempt to get rid of it. charlie: to legalize morality. >> exactly.

and it was an interesting thing that happened. hallbody who drank out the went overnight from being -- alcohol went overnight from being law-abiding american to being a criminal. it made criminality all of a sudden -- a look different in the american psyche. it changed our relationship to what our laws were. charlie: it made people like al capone very rich. >> once you make something illegal, you create an illegal market, as we see in the drug trade today. countless millions of dollars being made by criminals selling drugs. charlie: what is the most difficult thing about directing and starring in a film at the same time? time. >> its always time. you always wish you had more time. the way to do it right is to hire really good actors so you have everybody doing great performances and they are kind of creating the scene and the world and you can just step into it as an actor and forget your directing the movie and immerse yourself in whatever the scene is, whatever the day is, the work is. the directing stuff comes to

mind enough. you need to give yourself a chance to relax and be an actor. and not rush that. charlie: you work with then when he is not directing. >> that is when we first got to spend time together. charlie: was he more focused as an actor then, when he wasn't directing? >> i don't think so. he was very focused, and what chris mentioned, this is very professional, very calm, comfortable set. that doesn't happen all the time. charlie: it always comes from who's in charge. >> it always comes in charge and we realized the load that ben has taken. preproduction, the shoot, post -- charlie: and being producer too. i like to make everything easy as i can for him. charlie: would you like to do it?

>> i've been asked. i'd like to find something i'm crazy about. something like this could take three years out of your life. charlie: you are the owner, the quarterback, the coach. >> yeah. charlie: all of that. >> to continue on that you never , see him directing what you are in the scene with him. amazing, magic trick. when you are in a scene with him, you are with joe. >> i don't like to say action and cut and stuff. i like to give that voice to somebody else so it feels like i am a part of the group of actors. i also think something that happens, i don't even like saying action, i don't like that whole idea that now we will start acting and pretending. now it's playtime. i try to have a thinner membrane between being themselves and telling the story. charlie: sienna, would you direct? >> one day maybe.

i can't imagine it right now. charlie: some people say they can create characters in films they would like to see or be in. >> that would be closer. reading material and trying to develop it. i really think that's how you get great roles as a woman. and directing, i feel like i would love to one day. how did then influence your character in this film? i first met ben when i was 15, a couple years ago. and i did not think i was going to get the part because the way it was written, i just looked at her as older. of ben and i spoke and one the best qualities of hers is she is so childlike. we talked about that, that she is still a little girl and she has gone through so much. loretta is very nostalgic about her childhood. and so to keep the little girl thread throughout, that is what

we talked about. but also, most of my scenes were with ben, it was nice to have that support because he would create such an environment where you want to give, you want to create. charlie: take a look at this. >> let me apologize. we got off on the wrong foot here. i am just here to ask you if you would be amenable to omitting the casino issue from your sermon and in exchange, we are going to bring business here that will create jobs and reduce the sinfulness that comes with poverty and idle hands. we would be willing to contribute to the church, we would be willing to build a few churches. >> if god rewrites the bible to cast gambling as virtuous, i will refrain from speaking against it. but until then, we don't get to pick our sins, mr. coughlan. charlie: she's a standup woman, isn't she? [laughter]

>> a very formidable character. charlie: there's a sense of, i know what i'm doing here, sir. >> this scene feels like he's going to come in and operate. and it becomes very clear that is not going to happen. charlie: you don't seem afraid. >> no. charlie: one more clip here. this is him asking for help again, from the police chief. >> i need id, chief. >> i expect you would feel that way. >> you know what happens if you don't help me? >> no, i don't. >> more bodies are going to pile up. more articles about slaughter are going to get written. chief's going to get pushed out. >> you too. >> maybe. >> difference is, you get pushed out, someone does it with a bullet to the back of your ear. charlie: you have also worked with ben when he was directing before. >> yeah, in argo.

charlie: is he getting better? >> he's been great from the beginning. charlie: how do you explain it? you really came out of the box good. >> thank you very much. i got lucky with my first movie as well as the other ones. we have a great cast and really good material, that is so much of the battle. the first movie, i took a very simple approach to, i thought if boston at get oxen -- have the characters have the right accents and hit the right a few keynotes in the story. dennis had created a very powerful ethical moral dilemma in that movie. you are as good as the material and people you are working with. this is the best cast and crew i have worked with of any of the four movies, any of the movies i have done. charlie: it was the cinematographer? >> bob richardson, who's been nominated 10 times for oscars.

charlie: what is the relationship between a cinematographer and director? >> ideally, one of real collaboration. it's like all complicated relationships. it can be thorny, it can be dysfunctional. it's almost like a marriage. it has to be taking care of and nurtured like that. you have to be collaborative and you have to be open, and you can't be too prickly. charlie: will you and a sense -- in a sense look for , properties continually and in the meantime, there's not something you want to direct, you will just continue to act? >> that's the idea. keep auditioning. hoping i can get -- [laughter] i do a lot of auditioning as a director, so i feel like i am in auditions all the time. it always gives me affinity for actors and what actors go through. for every role in every movie you see, there's 20 people that memorize the lines and flog themselves all night and came up

with a whole take on it. i just want to hire everybody. charlie: i was just interviewing al pacino. we were talking about memorizing. he said he doesn't, he waits for a while. he doesn't try to memorize a whole script, but he lets it sort of come to him as he's getting inside the character. >> over the years i think i've kind of changed what i'm doing now with scripts is trying to keep away from making judgments and just read it time and time again, and let things soak in. and then, it's truly intuitive when i feel the time, now is the time to memorize and i will do -- buth, all before memorization, it is an essential

thing. i know when it's time. charlie: is it a muscle that gets better with experience? >> she told me, well, go ahead. >> i normally always memorize the night before only. charlie: that scene? >> yeah, all the scenes i have to do, all of the scenes i need to memorize. in this movie i looked in the , sermons, in one particular scene it's three pages long. that kind of threw me off. how am i going to i love , memorizing the night before. it's fresh and i don't have to analyze the words too much. kind of just on your toes. for this one, i have to -- it was a couple weeks ahead of time. i was very nervous about it, and when i was on that stage i felt

like i was in a play. i've never done a play. i've never had theater, but it felt like a very theatrical moment. we didn't rehearse it. ben asked if i wanted to say it. i said no let's just do it. , charlie: do you like rehearsal before a film? >> i love it. i love doing theater, and that's probably my favorite part of the job, the 6 weeks you get investigating and getting forensic on text. and i think that the muscle of doing that means i do find it easier to learn lines because of that experience. but rehearsing, i love. charlie: much success, my friend. >> thank you very love doing the show. charlie: thank you so much. great to have you here. "live by night" opens in limited releases christmas day and the nationwide january 13. ♪

♪ charlie: "hidden figures" tells the true story of three women in the 1960's working at nasa. they are part of a small group of mathematicians and engineers that were referred to as colored computers. their calculations have launched the first americans into space. here is the trailer for the film. >> you're going to end up unemployed in this pile of junk.

>> you're welcome to walk for 16 miles. or sit on the back of a bus. ♪ >> you have identification on you? >> nasa, sir. >> i had no idea they hired -- >> there are quite a few women working in the space program. >> the least they could do is give you all an escort. >> that is a god-ordained miracle. >> in 14 days, astronauts will be here for training. it's never been done before. the launch of the russian spy satellite, the president is demanding an immediate response. >> she can handle any numbers you put in front of her. without her were not going anywhere. >> that's john glenn. >> what do you guys do for nasa? >> calculate velocity. >> i have the right to see fine

in any color. >> would you wish to be an engineer? >> i wouldn't have to. i would already be one. >> get it, girl. >> i don't know if i can keep up in that room. >> just make that pencil move is fast is your mind does. >> you've been gone for 300 hours. >> felt like it to me too. >> the launch is in three weeks. >> there is no protocol for women attending. >> there is no protocol for a man circling the work -- birth, either. >> every time we have a chance to get ahead, they moved the finish line. >> you, sir, are the boss. you just have to act like one. sir. >> we have liftoff. >> we don't get there together, we don't get their at all. >> flight of our lives, people. >> my hands are ready.

we can do the work. >> more than 50 million americans watching. >> that's a real fireball. getting real hot in there. charlie: last year president , obama awarded kathryn johnson the presidential medal of freedom. i'm pleased to welcome this day the film's stars. also joining us, kevin costner, and the director. he's coming here for the first time and i am pleased to have him. congratulations. >> thank you. charlie: did you know this story, kevin? >> i didn't. charlie: i didn't either. how did you discover it? >> i didn't know it. it started with a book proposal by a writer whose father was a research scientist at nasa. she grew up at barbecues and events with kathryn johnson and vaugn and mary

jackson. she asked her dad, who are these women? they work at nasa, they are mathematicians. it sparked her. she started digging in, researching and writing, and that's how it all started. charlie: was it hard to get this greenlighted? or not? >> strangely not at all. charlie: it's an american story. >> yeah, and the moment everyone read this book proposal and script and heard the story, they became infected with the idea that it had to be told, and it had to be told right now. especially with the way we were going politically at the time, and still are. charlie: this is the early 1960's. >> no, now. charlie: oh, now. >> everyone wanted to be a part of this when you told them the story. charlie: questions existing today between african-american communities and other communities in terms of police, and all of that. kathryn johnson. >> yes. charlie: tell me about her. >> the closest i've ever come to a living superhero.

it's a different feeling, if not the feeling of meeting a you celebrity. i never really get starstruck, because i'm an entertainer. but it was a different kind of starstruck. this woman changed the course of history for america. this was formal. i was in her house and i'm sitting there talking to this superhero. note it was amazing. charlie: how did she feel about a film being made about her? >> she seemed excited. you will it's almost like she was like, why do you want to tell my story? she doesn't see herself as a hero. she just saw herself going to work every day. i don't think she ever saw will herself going to nasa to change the world. create she was just excited -- charlie: confident in who she was and her abilities. absolutely, but not knowing she would even begin in that opportunity to change the course of history. she just knew, i get to work in the field i have all these degrees in and i don't have to be a teacher. charlie: who do you play? >> miss mary jackson,

the african-american female first engineer at nasa. she is my hero as well. all these women are my heroes. what she was able to accomplish had not been done before. she was on the course of being a colored computer, but she had the mind of an engineer. during this era of the 1950's, women were not even allowed to vote. and as minorities, we were not allowed to attend certain classes because of the color of our skin. she fought, she petitioned, and she won. she made history. not just for herself, but everyone around her. everything she did was for the community. she was not going to be a woman who would sit back idly and allow discrimination to face her because of her race or gender, two things she could not change and two things she would never

change because she was proud to be an african-american woman. >> i played dorothy von. dorothy can be credited as the mother of the women who code movement. she was acting supervisor of the african-american computers, but she didn't have the title, and she was instrumental in figuring out the idea and then figuring out how to program it, and she taught the other women to program it. she knew their jobs had become obsolete once that computer was up. charlie: that's an important role for her. she was a visionary. she was able to look to mile down the road and know they would no longer need computers, they would need computer programmers. she taught herself, literally, then taught all the other women. charlie: what do you think this film says? >> what do i think it said?

charlie: it's american -- it's an american story. >> you're dealing with the civil rights movement, with women in the workplace, and you top it off with race inside. so, it's important to point out that while this is a good story, i never think that a good story makes a good movie. i think a good script does. there's an art form that comes in in distilling this down against those big backdrops, how personal can you make it. people will always react to the big boom in movies, but they will be moved by the interpersonal things, tucking the children into bed or letting them absolutely believe they can be whatever they want, and then go to work and be put down on a daily basis. so, what do i think? i think this is a movie that some people will be changed by it. not everybody. it doesn't always happen that way. i think young people, may be

young girls will be really empowered. i can do that i can be that. , when movies are working at their best, that is kind of what they are doing. what does it say? american movies are alive and it says thatamerican movies are alive and well, we can make stories about this, and we can move people. charlie: there was some sense, some people have been talking about, this was a year in which african americans play prominent roles, coming after all the things that were said at the academy. have you heard that, do you sense that? >> what's wonderful is that we know this isn't a reactionary project. it was actually in the work before, and i met two years ago on it, when it was still a first consideration. -- first iteration. i'm excited about the fact that there are movies starring people of color. i'm also excited about seeing

jeff patel doing something different. i'm excited. i'm excited. >> i think we are excited, as an african-american woman, excited to hear more diverse stories. inclusion is important, and including these women who have gone far too long without being celebrated in a way that we all have felt they needed to be celebrated is important. we think about other films, "lion" and "moonlight." it's about making sure that we have -- we account for so many nuanced and layered characters. they are on screen and they can see themselves. and we all feel a part of the american experience. charlie: this was your second film. what was the challenge for you? >> i think the biggest challenge when i got the script and book proposal, being a white man and white director, i didn't know -- it is scary to think, what do i have to offer this?

i really didn't understand why i made the movie. i had not told octavia this. i do not understand why i made a movie, other than i was blown away by the story and felt like i had to pay reverence to these women. then i was sitting in an airport at heathrow and we are traveling for a screening. we are in the first-class lounge. octavia, i will go get something for a friend of mine. i leave and i go get something and i come back, and octavia and her makeup artist had not been served yet, had not been served a cup of coffee yet. and i didn't get it. and i walked up to them and they were sitting there with this look on their face. and the server came right up to me. >> immediately. >> and i said to myself, that's why i made the movie. that's why this movie is important.

>> this movie speaks to the everyday racism and slights and sexism we experience every day and that we dole out every day and think nothing of. charlie: and this is london in heathrow airport. >> i will never go there again. [laughter] >> truthfully, you can feel the changes in the world. it's very pervasive in all of these cultures. i think this is a great time to have movies like this. >> they bring people together. >> to remind people what made america great in the first place. everybody putting their brilliant minds together, whether it was that nobody cared -- exactly. ♪

>> what is the status on that computer? >> she's right behind you, mr. harrison. >> can she handle analytic geometry? >> absolutely. and she speaks. >> yes, sir, i do. >> which one? >> both geometry and speaking. , >> ruth, get me a -- can you find me the frame for this data? >> the algorithm?

yes, sir. i prefer it over euclidean coordinates. [laughter] charlie: i love that clip. did you change this character at all? >> i wasn't going to do the movie at first. i was in complete support of, the movie, i thought it was beautiful and the movie was about to go and the call came in that ted would like me to play the role, and i just didn't feel like i understood the role. it was schizophrenic. i've used that word before, and we got on the phone and, i knew there wasn't a lot of time to do a big dance here. i said, it's a little schizophrenic, and i was quiet. i just defended the director and i just defended the writer. my career has depended on great writing great i was quick to say, i think the movie is great, but i don't see how i fit. what came back to me was that we couldn't get the rights to that character, so it became a combination of three different men.

when he said that, i went, at least i'm not crazy. [laughter] >> and we began to talk then, and without breaking it completely down, i said, this will take work. tess says, i'm ready to do the work. i say, i've directed too, and after a 12 hour day or longer to get a phone call from a supporting actor, because that's what this part is and i was proud to be a part of it -- when you're out there directing every day to come home and get on the phone with me, because it is still not right -- u.at can taxi -- tax yo a lot of people say things to get us to do movies. but not always do they follow through, and ted did. i didn't know what part we had created until we finally saw the movie, we had worked very hard to turn it on its ear a little bit. charlie: who is he in the end? >> if you boil him down, he's what you kind of want, the cream that gets to the top and i don't

care how it happens. on the sporting field, at nasa, in the classroom. this country will survive beautifully when we understand that no advantage can be given to wealth, to race, when we open the door to ability and contribution, we can be that thing where we are headed. charlie: he had that mindset, and secondly, he saw the possibilities of these talented people. >> and it's important that he also had his own shame about maybe not paying attention. charlie: his own shame. >> there's a scene where we go breakdown the bathroom sign. everyone in the world after seeing that movie will wish they broke it down. we put something in the middle of that which was a coffee pot, which i think ended up setting up the hallway even more.

the coffee pot, the disappointment of the men in the room would not allow this young woman -- just didn't realize it was bothersome, that it was equally on me too, that i wasn't taking a look around the work spot. so the character we just want to do, we wanted to create a spencer tracy role where we stand there and deliver and let the girls do this amazing dance and have their story told. charlie: is there a common denominator in the three characters? >> their fidelity. charlie: to? >> each other, and the sisterhood, and the community. if one does great, we all do great. charlie: is there also a fidelity to science? >> absolutely. we are geeks, and we are proud of it. charlie: because science is true. >> absolutely. and numbers don't lie. charlie: how much of it is their pride in being a part of history? >> very proud.

>> it is an honor. >> just being a part of this project -- this is the most important project to date in my career. i was talking about the careers at the time, but your career? >> yes, definitely in my career. this is a missing part of history, a very important part of cinematography, piece of cinematography we need. the fact that my name is on it is like -- i could not have written a better script in my life. i could not have planned it any better. >> ted does an interesting thing at that moment, where after she becomes -- when john glenn says, i'm not going, i'm not going unless the girl does the thing -- what girl? not the black girl, not the tall girl not the white girl. , the smart girl. the really smart one. i'm not going, and what ted did beautifully is that when that happened, katherine will still be shut out of her credit. the door shuts on her once again.

john will go because catherine has done her job. it was a really beautiful moment. ted chooses, what makes the script very sophisticated. but seemingly simple the door , opens and all that comes out is the tag. you can come in. there's no words, i got you the tag. its like hurry up in those , heels. she was having to make that awful run. >> it takes a great acting. >> it takes a vision too, and the vision was not to beat people over the head with the message. it was just for them to enjoy it and get it. it will seep into your blood and veins. just watch it, you will get it. as opposed to come i get the message? charlie: skip down to the third clip here. you are telling your future husband about your work at nasa. here it is. >> the pastor mentioned you are a computer at nasa. pretty heavy stuff. >> it is.

>> they let women handle this sort of -- that's not what i mean. >> what do you mean? >> i'm just surprised something so taxing -- >> mr. johnson, if i were you i would quit talking right now. >> i mean no disrespect. >> i will have you know i was the first negro female at west virginia university graduate school. on any given day, i analyzed the barometer levels for air displacement, friction, and velocity, and compute over 10,000 calculations by hand. women do some things at nasa, mr. johnson. and it is not because they wear skirts. it's because they wear glasses. charlie: when you elected to direct this film, you were in

conversations also to direct the "spiderman" films. and you insisted on doing this. >> yeah, i had been through the spiderman process for about four months. i was thinking, i'm going to ask that story when we have more time. i'm going to wonder what that "spiderman" process is. they are great people and i was enjoying the process. and then on a friday night, and marvel was going to give us an answer to "spiderman" on monday. on friday my agent called me and said, we know you're in the middle of this "spiderman" situation and you will find out monday, but i have something to tell you about. and they tell me the story and i go, oh crap, really? send it to me. i read it that weekend. sunday night i said, i'm going to back out of "spiderman." i can't possibly do that now that i have seen this. charlie: were you contracted to

make the film at that time? >> no. i withdrew for consideration on monday morning and went full steam ahead into this. >> of that is a pretty good negotiating move. i can do the "spiderman" movie, or i can do your movie. i know there's not a lot of money, but you will have to bump it a little bit. [laughter] >> it was just one of those chances in life to do something good. >> they actually wanted me to do "spiderman." [laughter] charlie: what was the most satisfying thing about the entire experience? just putting this on screen? exploring their character? >> yes that, knowing we were going to introduce the world to a story that no one has ever heard of. this is so fresh, this is not

like another jfk film. no pun intended. this is not like -- it is not a story we have heard of, and you seen it done millions of ways in theater, on the screen. this is something so new and refreshing, and that's why the world is waiting to see it. it is something that has happened, but you've never heard about it. >> especially three females as protagonists. that's rare. charlie: african-american female protagonists. as john glenn said, i want the smart one. >> we have been accustomed to seeing ourselves as being beautiful or as objects sometimes, but now we are subjects to study until the end of time. charlie: this is so great as a role model, to see something other than entertainment and sports. >> absolutely. >> for me in particular, i grew up being told, don't worry about

science and math, it is for boys. so i didn't even know this dream was available to me. who knew? if i knew that i could be great with numbers and science, maybe i would have been a rocket scientist. charlie: maybe you would have been an astronaut. >> i could have been, but i was told not to silly myself with that boy stuff. charlie: what does katherine johnson think of that? >> she being 98, she doesn't understand what all the hubbub is about. she says, i don't understand, i just did my work. charlie: whenever you talk to someone who has done something heroic, that's all they say. just doing my duty. >> some reasons you do movies, when i was reading the screenplay, things that move me, i thought, i want to be a part of the film. there's a scene janelle is in with the judge. the reason that scene is important to me is because people don't think they actually

get justice if they think it has already been predetermined. in that particular scene, she makes a very compelling sidebar discussion with him, very intimate. and the judge gets it. and you don't think he's going to get it. you don't think at that point in history he will even listen to it. but he does. i was thrilled with that man that made a difference in your character's life. so, part of the weight of me saying i'm going to do it had to do with scenes like that. that's important to me that that happened. it is important to me that dorothy, when these men could not figure out this big machine, she got down on her knees like underneath the car and finished it. there's a charm in that. and the fact that it's true makes it like -- you have this giant secret when you read a script like this, that one day it's going to be told. because i don't know anybody who

doesn't want to tell somebody about the greatest song they just heard, the greatest book they just read, or some movie that touched me. charlie: do you remember that scene? what did she say? >> i think that during that era, their brothers and sisters were being lynched, the way they even talked to white people or looked at white people. my character, mary, had to be strategic had to study and learn , her enemy. she had to figure out a way to get him to empathize with her. the judge was the first of his family to do many things. and knowing that she would be the first to be a female engineer at nasa was the connection that she felt that they would bond over, and that he would get. he would understand the obstacles that he had to go through to get to where he was, being the first and his family

to serve them a u.s. navy armed forces. once she made that connection, human to human, she won. she got justice. it was a chess game. >> these women were so smart. it was a chess game, and she won that chess game. >> emphasizing that scene, again, it seems like a story but it was a screenplay. no, we've got to do in there. and that is a nervous moment when you have to find the right words, with everything on the line. it comes out in a movie perfect, but that little girl had to be really sweating. charlie: was it good to just have him on the set, around? >> like my favorite filmmaker in the world. kevin is like the ultimate partner, and dug into the script, like i did. charlie: so he had a partner. >> i knew al harrison was going to work out.

i know his character from the first time you shake his hand. you know he will be there and do it and dig in. kevin would come to the set the day before and pre-block stuff. >> our scenes were very unwieldy. it was big, there was movement. the art of rehearsal is a lost art in our business. we show up and make it up at the moment, we show up and make it up at the moment. maybe not as good as "hamilton," where they have months to work it out. for me, if i'm not working that day, i'm saying, where is this next set? talk about that. >> they all do the same thing. >> you just -- we don't have a a lot of time in the spaces. i literally like to go and sit in the space, and feel it, and figure it out.

because you have to exist in that space on screen as if you have been there 10, 20 years. and that's hard to do. >> these women took the math with them. every day, all the time. taraji had a blackboard in her home, practice that math day in , and day out. janelle did the same. these women, they did the work just like the characters did the work. charlie: to make it more authentic. congratulations. "hidden figures" opens in select theaters december 25. it opens nationwide on thank you january 6. for joining us. see you next time. ♪ >> the world bank approved a new

loan for egypt, the second portion of free trade, creating thousands of new jobs. >> asia-pacific builds on wall street and new high. brazilians with the geopolitical event. >> stocks climb on the back of bank merger news. access worth $44 billion. >> units cancel shareholder meetings as the chairperson