announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: these men and women lived important lives. they enriched our culture through their art and enterprise. they appeared over the last way five years of this program and we take a moment this evening to appreciate them. guest: they catapulted me into a status i don't think i would have achieved if i continue doing r&b or pop. charlie: you would just have been known as a jazz artist. natalie: or r&b artist. now i'm singing with placido

domingo and getting offers from all over the world to perform for royalty and getting invited to social event. people wanted to meet and look in the face and it's like i got this whole new audience of people who did not know anything about it. charlie: how much of it was the album and what you did with the duet? natalie: i think 90% of it was this album. t's like it reawakened something and a lot of people that that this music was gone. they would have to pull out their old records if they wanted to hear it again. they were certainly not going into the record stores anymore because this kind of music was not selling. between radio and musicians that

were performing, so many of them said thank you, we've -- you have given us work again. >> i close my book out with this and i tell the story, the last page of the book -- i had gone down to the courthouse to be sworn into the d.c. bar. i wanted to be a member of the d.c. bar and when i went to the metal detector of the courthouse, the court houses are almost like the airports now with all of the equipment. when i went through that thing, i set it off and i set it off and this big african-american man about six foot three or 6'4" was looking at me and he had a scanner in his hand. i thought he wanted me to spread eagle so he could scan me because i set the metal detector off. he looked at me and said senator bumpers? i said yes. he said i cried when you said you weren't going to run no more.

i said that may be the kindest, most gratifying thing anyone has ever said to me. he stood there for a full 10 seconds and said would you give me a big hug? i said i would be delighted to give you a big hug and we embraced for about five seconds and i went my way and i wanted to say to my father, you were right. that one experience made it all orthwhile. guest: when i conduct in these different places, people always say french orchestras have their own style, chinese orchestras have their own style, i don't believe that. i try to change their style to vietnamese style. when i finished in beijing after 11 reversals, you would not have confused this orchestra with the vienna philharmonic, but you

would have thought maybe it was an austrian orchestra. i believe mahler has his own language. his music is so emotional and i don't think you can get a great performance if you simply follow all these endless details. you must bring your self to t. although i'm credited with coming the closest, i'm sure i know it at her than anyone else, i spent 20 years studying the score. i still feel at the end of the day i conducted idiosyncratic performances that people will hear monday night. >> markets go up, markets go down. i think there's too much emphasis on the scandal driving the market down. there are other factors including a potential terrorist

attack. the fact the economy does not appear to be growing as fast as we thought. there are regional factors in terms of the weather and the like. it is a fact that people are concerned about it. half the households in this country own equities. people follow the market and many people trade online. that is all a positive thing but most people are staying with the market. the individual investor, despite all the bad news is staying in the market and that's the important part to recognize. guest: don't look at my personality. my personality is not important. you compose, you write, these people, i can accept that easily. i have a vision which is necessary if you want to do music or anything. to give your vision of hings.

if people don't agree with your visions, that is their right. i never objected to that. i was in -- i was never a: this from this point of view. then you are not obliged to go with it, but i can give my opinion. hat's all. guest: when the worst was over, i felt it was extremely ecessary that those who died from mental illness in my family, my brother died as a street person. my mother died by her own hand. i thought they should be eulogized, that they should not be forgotten, and their illness

should be put to some use. charlie: and you dedicated it to your father? elizabeth: yes i did. charlie: why? elizabeth: he was an incredible survivor. he managed to become a very successful lawyer and work in sports and love music and love art and to live his life almost n spite of it all. though he's a very opinionated man, he nonetheless breathed life, forced the breath of life into me. therefore, i survive. when i graduated from barnard college, my burning ambitions was to never be a lawyer. or a judge. charlie: you wanted to be a reporter. judith: i thought it would be a acre and shaper of world opinion. i look a long time for jobs and cannot find one. i think i traveled the whole eastern coast to find a job as a reporter and i finally did take

a job in desperation with a little newspaper in union city, new jersey as a social reporter. i always describe myself as a failed journalist because i went to law school only to get on the news side of the newspaper. but being in law school was lots of fun. charlie: what is the difference today in terms of a young woman going to law school and the time you entered law school how many years ago -- i went to law school as well, duke law school. i think we had 5, 6, seven women in my class. maybe the same for you. today, i guess it's 50% or more. judith: iron or law school 35 years ago and i believe i was one of about 10 women at the time. i started in the evening division because i was hanging on to that dream of being a great reporter and moved slowly to the ambition to be a lawyer. we were few women in those years and very many men. today, the numbers are close to

50% and in some law schools, more than 50%. i think the situation is quite different in law school and quite different in entry positions in the legal profession. i'm not sure they are that different in the upper reaches of the profession. david: i think my idea is a synthesis. the way you can draw several strands together and create a new thing. i think what i do is more of a creative thing in that way. i think it's fine to draw from opera or the visual arts, from the underground, from mainstream, just produce a new blend which is probably a more complete way of describing the way that we live and creating a sense of a cultural spin by

amalgamating all these different threads. that's it, isn't it? that's what it's all about. charlie: one thing people have said about you as you keep an eye on what is new. david: i can't take my eyes off it. i've got an incredible appetite for what we do and how we do it and how we express it. ever since i was a kid, i always want to know what's out there. guest: molière and shakespeare only wrote about life. the curiousness and the strangeness that we all share. for what reason, we don't know. molière dealt in obsession, eople, obsessive people.

i think what it says in another way is new york and indeed the united states, our country, just as i told you, i've lived here or 35 years. the most disgraceful aspect of our culture is there is no national theater. it is heartbreaking for some be like me because i would be there all the time. there's not a company like the royal shakespeare company was a british national theater. can you tell me why? charlie: i was going to ask you. guest: it's because the people in washington are apathetic. to the soul of this country. that is what it is to do with. theater is to do with -- you know, it's food for the soul.

these classical players, it's why they are classical players. it means something and have meant something to generations ever since they were written. it's not because people were forced to learn them in schools. it is because they are dense with meaning to our lives. guest: there's a lot of pressure to have a public image. one of the great things about being an actor is that it is actual peril to lose touch with he child within. charlie: you have to be in touch with everything to be a great actor. that's the genius of the best, they are in touch with their feelings, emotions and experiences. guest: and things you don't even know about. very much your innocence. charlie: is that a learned thing? guest: i think it's both.

i'm a great believer in training for actors and so, if you are fortunate enough to have great teachers and i was, there is a painful process where they take you apart before putting you back together again and i was very nervous about training because i thought it was just a sausage factory and they would turn me out like everyone lse. the acquisition of something called technique is really something there to serve your imagination and get rid of your bad habits which get in the way of making your own, unique imaginative response to a text connect to the audience. guest: people collect hings.

it is essential because if you have a wide ranging, omnivorous curiosity, you have to have what you might call a network and it is important if you want to group them around you that you do so. you can't do one by one. you have to have more than 355 days on the calendar. it all sounds absurd. ou have to have a childish interest in trying to converge and bring people together, bringing you together with somebody he might not think would be of interest to you. yet you might suddenly find you

have made a new friend. it is casting. it's like someone else's passion for baseball or tennis. charlie: that's it -- you say the idea of interesting conversation with people who have something to say is your sports and your entertainment. george: precisely. i love the idea of having different people from different countries together, finding the familiarity, study the way they speak and study the genealogy, where did they learn to speak that way? is that sort of thing that's so interesting.

esther scalia: the constitution is a legal text. that's why it is discussed in this book on interpreting legal texts. nothing in the document says the supreme court will be the last word on what it means, at least in normal times. the reason we have become the last word is set forth in marbury versus madison. this is a legal text. judges always have to treat the situation where legal texts contradict one another more the

contradiction is between two statutes, says john marshall, the more recent statute prevails. but where the conflict is between a statute and super statute, the constitution must prevail. that is our approach to the onstitution, the same as our approach to statutes. you start with the text, it is lawyers work, not politicians work. it's not the economists work. it is the work of interpreting and giving the fairest reading to a text. without which, democracy does not work. the only way you can have democracy in an extensive nation is through written laws.

if you do not give those written laws the meaning they were understood to have, and they were documented more informally by the people to whom they were promulgated, democracy does not ork. guest: i was trained by 15 years of dealing with the foreign affairs of my country entering the very difficult negotiations with the israelis, we concluded the peace treaty in camp david. i was attracted by the job because at the end of the cold war and the possibility to do something through this organization, the first year, i was very optimistic because i was lucky to have a summit meeting in january of 1992 and asked me to prepare a paper on

peacemaking. it was a success. he second year, i discovered a fatigue to have member state and the excitement was flagging and they were less interested in peacekeeping operations and less interesting -- they don't want to get involved in peacekeeping operations all over the world. the setback in somalia can be one of the reasons. the setback in the formal -- the former yugoslavia. but the simple explanation is fatigue. charlie: how do you overcome that? guest: this is what you are trying to do. that we will be confronted by global problems and for the time being, there's only one form that can help the international committee to solve the global problems. i say a problem cannot be solved by one or two countries.

you need the international community, but they need the international community. guest: very few people realize, bill dwyer, the sports editor of the l.a. times, these to have a separate chairmanship for the doubles. very few people read at an and they decided when open tennis came to put them together as the u.s. open and emulate wimbledon but it has never worked. i got my start on pbs as you. and people loved it. they saw -- the action is faster and there is more to it. older people come up to me and

say why can't we see doubles on television anymore? i say because they can -- the commercial networks are convinced no one likes them. charlie: and i don't like to play doubles. guest: you are not a thinking man's tennis player. guest: i like critics to say that, but usually you don't hear your mother say that. in this book, you wrote santini as a powerhouse. he had his strength, he had his brutality, but i ruled because i knew had to make that house hum and work. charlie: she did not live to see

wt prince of tides" published. guest: she would not have liked that particular portrait of the mother. there is no question about it. when she asked me if i was writing it, i said i wasn't. guest: being a former ceo in the business, you say what does it mean to chase, to morgan, to merrill, to goldman, goldman being strange interested partnerships and what does it mean to the other insurance companies? in the present world, if one big guy does it, the other folks are quick to follow. the second reaction is, god, i hate this. why do i hate it? the first reason i hate it is because the depersonalization of

everything i've always lived with -- it used to be that your money was something private and you talked to your broker discreetly. your banker. nobody knew your bank balances. the transaction was a written check going to the bank. dealing with the telephone company when the phone goes own. uest: late 97, the writer of the story, and in 97, i became a grandfather for the first time, so i had an audience for the story. i started thinking about time magazine and is time magazine the only thing i'm going to leave for my grandchildren? i can do a bit better. at least i thought i could do a bit better. charlie: you had not told it before because?

guest: i have been on your show a number of times. you want to talk about technology, intel, the industry. i'd did not want to talk about circumstances like this. the two subjects have nothing to do with each other. everybody has a past and a legacy. mine is including wars and the ike. i didn't want to dwhruse any more than i want to use the story today to publicize. guest: i started as a writer, i started right out of college and am at heart a writer. began acting in the mid-80's, i'm sort of a late bloomer when

it comes to acting and i'm still finding my feet, so to say. it is a technical acting term. finding my feet. i think i would like to try directing. i directed some episodes and that's a real challenge for me, but i love actors. i would like to try that and i'd don't know where i will ultimately end up. guest: for all of human history, the wealthiest person has owned land, gold and oil. for the last 100 years, it has been oil. what made them wealthy was natural resources. starting with john d rockefeller and ended up with the sultan of brunei, the wealthiest person has always been associated with oil. hen in 1997, it is bill gates. he doesn't own any land, oil or gold. charlie: he had a monopoly on operating system. uest: right.

guest: the idea of a different kind of order allows us in a different way to represent, to give you that seamlessness and that idea you are bringing urban ife into the interior. charlie: has this profession for you been worth the struggle? guest: i think so. t's not finished though. i enjoy doing what i did. i know is difficult but i did not see it at the time as a struggle. i also really believe it's ossible, so there's always a goal and eventually you will get

it done. guest: this is how i tell it. he was not sent to me to interrogate. another friend of ours had sent him to meet terry hayden and they were going to matchup and he came to me and when she saw im, she was reading actors for the play that we were going to do. "this property is condemned." she remembered seeing him in the play and thought he was terrific. she let all the young kids go, the boys, the juveniles. she said eli wallach is going to play the boy. i said would one is eli wallach. she said the gentleman at the uniform.

and i said don't you think he's too old? and she said he's a brilliant actor and when you learn to act as well as he does, you can give me advice or something to that effect. that is the way we met. charlie: after you got together, was it magic? guest: yes. guest: at the border, there's no computer. this time, they check me out i computer. i was escorted by the secret police in china in a small vehicle made by audi. all this secret police have a mobile phone made by motorola. you have to see two different ways. one is that they make trade a benefit.

it benefits the common people. people are talking about capitalism thriving and we're finally beating socialism and china will turn and bring the human rights issue back. in this moment, i don't want to argue about this kind of political idea. most of the profit benefits into the government. that is why today china has the money to buy the equipment and knowledge to advance their missile system. charlie: most of the advantage goes to strengthen the government and enlarge its power? guest: it is true. guest: coming in, there is a

different political structure. you have to be more lyrically astute from the beginning. i'm not saying that is right or wrong. i think it is wrong in some instances, but that is what is required. you have to focus far more on making sure you touch all the bases all the time, the media -- anything that can occur in los angeles can be on the local news by 5:00 and national and international news by mid-night or the next morning. things that never hit the international wires and other big cities are international news in l.a.. we probably hear and see new york three or four times a week. people can barely have a day where there's not an la-based story no matter where they are. guest: trivia question --

michael jordan came in and the second got in and the first week he was terrific. he only tied for the m.v.p.. charlie: they get the chance to measure themselves and the chance for college coaches to look at them and then they get a chance to learn something. howard: teaching was at another level. it started when bob and i came in the second year of the camp and came as our head coach. he said we are putting in stations this week. we are putting in stations, there are going to be eight stations, eight different skills and we did it. we had not done it before. passing, one-on-one moves, movement without the ball, defense. the teaching set the camp apart from everyone else and rob knight is totally responsible for that.

charlie: he's a good teacher? howard: an unbelievable teacher and a great leader. guest: one of the privileges of this office is you can from time to time go off and do something that absolutely intrigues you. and they believe there are people who are interested as well. i would not go off and do slovakian stained-glass windows. charlie: let's assume you did. could you get on the air? guest: i think i could. guest: when you sit down to write those first sentences,

it's a miracle. did i really think of that? as you get in, you learn to depend on that and trusted and go with your instincts. as daniel has pointed out, the characters assume a life of their own and you find you can't make them do something they don't want to do. while you are writing, your head is full of all these people. charlie: if i read this book, will i know something about you? guest: every character in some way or another is me. it definitely modeled on myself. a venture capitalist would never fall into the trap he falls in. ♪

guest: i read the newspaper every single day. charlie: for how many years? barbara: from 1868 to 1877 everyday. i love to research. i love it.

charlie: what do you love about it? barbara: i say it is my breakfast at tiffany's. you open these old diaries and the last line says burn this as soon as read. it's giving you this wonderful present. guest: everyone is focusing on what we regard as peripheral issues. if you want to strengthen family life in america, i say that's a good idea. you don't do that by working away at pornography and homosexuality. what you do is give important functions back to the family. that strengthens family. there are hundreds of thousands of americans who do homeschooling.

with the coming of the pc and communications, our daughter needs antibiotics and was able to get that at home. there's a series of functions taken out of the homes and gradually migrating back into the home. if you encourage that process, you will build a family with many important ties to the communities and you will strengthen the family. the other issues, abortion, per not free, homosexuality, these are divisive and not necessarily strengthening the family. guest: i think the thing i like so much about coaching is i get to teach on a daily basis. i get to influence and listen. no two days are ever alike. i love the fact i'm working with different individuals and personalities and i'm trying to mold them into a team.

what great rewards when you see little girls become young women. when you see them going from being shy, nonaggressive and become aggressive and gain a lot of self respect themselves. guest: what alex haley it for black americans is what he did in the biography of malcolm x.. they brought something to life they had heard about and thought about but had never really understood. he had such magnificent storytelling skills. when he traced the voyage of he did something we can understand and did something

to validate our african experience. he put feelings to it, faces to it, names to it. guest: for many years, i was afraid of having children. charlie: you do not want to bring children into a world you thought was so inhumane? guest: i have no right to impose afraid of having children. my past and make it their future. but you know how it is. you met a very special person and you link your life to hers. the child comes in now he's the center of our life. charlie: and so you found what? hope? guest: hope is something that is essential to life. the body cannot live without dreams, the soul cannot live without hope. you need hope.

guest: cambodia was very different. privately everyone acknowledged this was a country that had been taken into war by the great powers, including the united states and was being used by everybody for their larger purposes as a surrogate battlefield. there was never any sense anything could be one -- could be won. americans could with straw with fewer casualties which may have sounded good in washington but did not do much for cambodia. guest: i'm a little bit more of a glass half full kind of guy. part of the reason i believe in optimism is i was born and raised in europe.

one should remember the cold war was not just a question of moscow and washington discussing arms control with each other or think tanks and academics. it had real victims come at two generations a very brave eastern pawns in the were struggle whose freedoms were diminished. i think what one has seen over the last 10 years is a gradual process in which from the standpoint of eastern europeans, europe becomes nearly normal, quite normal because it's a weekend very impoverished country and terrible with poverty and deprivation inside the major cities. but every time i go to eastern

europe, i meet people for whom the end of the cold war is nothing but did news. -- nothing but good news. guest: i love this show,charlie. you don't have to wear pants. if people say i just lectured at columbia and i say what if we want to be everything? nobody likes a renaissance man who is 21. nobody likes a 21-year-old renaissance person. charlie: 21 is a little early. gary: i feel that's why they hire me to direct. even when i act, i just do what is written and they say maybe you can think of something and i try to help them.

filling blank paper is the hardest thing there is. charlie: it is harder than acting or directing. why is it so hard? guest: because you have no excuses. the kids are making noise -- a director won't give me a chance and they say gary hired his daughter or they have all these excuses. a guy with a pen has no excuse. guest: some of the best advice i got was to lean into the disease. the progress is inevitable. the speed will vary from patient to patient but to the extent i can plan and anticipate, getting a wheelchair fitted when you can no longer stand is next to

impossible compared to trying to do it when you can move from chair to chair and try the different chairs. silly things like that, being able to lean into the disease is very important and for me, i just embrace the purpose. my mortality. it's not a question. it becomes what am i going to do with the time i have left. that was the quickest thing that happened -- a quick, personal discussion with what do i want to do with the time i have left and how do i want to use it. you don't have the opportunity to plan that way and for me, it has made a difference. guest: i was covering the white house when the iran-contra affair broke and from a strange juxtaposition of events, three of the key figures of the national security council staff -- i did not know them. they were not buddies and they were not even particular good sources.

however, i knew of their background. i knew we shared a common background. in november of 1986, iran contra blows all over the place and right there in the heart of it are north, mcfarlane and poindexter. i said what the hell is going on here. these were not guys out of watergate comedies were not guys who tried to steal the election. these were men and viewed the highest ideals of public service, so what were they doing in the middle of it? that, in effect, set often exploration. guest: if you are going to spend 100 bucks or more to go to the theater, something should happen to you. maybe someone should be asking questions about your values or the way you think about things and maybe you should come out of the theater something having happened to you. you should be changing or

thinking about change. but if you go in the only thing you worry about is where you left the dam car, you have wasted your 100 bucks. charlie: you just answer the question i want to ask without asking. what should you get out of the theater, something that confronts you about the life your living or play sure living? edward: exactly. ideally, a play sure hold a mirror up to people and say this is the way you behave. this is the way you react to things. if you don't like what you see on stage, why don't you change? guest: i don't know? it's like where did i learn to write? where do actors learn how to act? the mechanics of directing are quite simple. those i got a feel for, i went on set doing photojournalism and took teachers and did interviews. that gave me a chance to watch

the machinery move around a little bit. the on that, it is storytelling whether the typewriter or the camera. charlie: what's the difference between the mechanics and being able to tell a story well? guest: i think of you can tell a story well, you can do it with whatever the equipment is. whether it's a typewriter or camera or the music, whether it is the editing, it's all part of the storytelling process. i like all phases of moviemaking equally. guest: the truth is it was such a great game and it's been so much fun for me to be a part of it. i think about what influenced me and what made me do some of the things you are talking about like the golf associations when

i started right here in the western pennsylvania area and played in the tournament's, the usga, the united states golf association, those people, whether you like them or dislike them, what they have done to make the game so great is part of what made me do what i wanted to do and have the opportunity to do whatever i wanted to do and play the history of the game -- those things are so important to me, that people, to talk about the galleries, the people that have inspired me to do what i did, to win and to have the pleasures i have had in my life -- my wife, my kid, what they have done and how they have helped me do what i wanted to do is so important. i am most grateful for that and i could spend the rest of my life thanking people for the contributions they have made.

guest: i am asking what took most of my time, the ending frictions among people. as prime minister, -- i'm a president, i don't have an administration, i hardly hear the word no and these people feel that you serve them, they've will respond gladly. if you ask them to volunteer, they will be surprised how many of them will volunteer for everything.

the greatest satisfaction is to discover the goodwill and trust. guest: what we've got here is to calm them entry businesses and maybe it's easiest to think about it by way of example -- two complementary businesses. without in any since damaging it, if they show should originate in disney world at one point, i think that is a synergy that helps. we have come with our disney channel, we have growth in europe, they have growth in europe. they overlap a little bit and there are other synergies there. the more we think about it, the more we are convinced there are

things we can do better because we do them together. guest: during the chicago 1968 events, a young native american was killed. that hasn't really been examined and some of us thought we would be hurt, injured, killed, put away for years. a spectrum of fears. during the trial, our lawyers told us on the first day that we should expect 10 years with good time, maybe seven, maybe five. but during the trial, you put your head down and work on the case and see what happens and you overturn it and we were successful. guest: i did not know when i was covering the boston school committee in 1978 in my first job out of college and watched the way school busing created such clashes in boston, i did not know that was going to be a thing i could track to suburban baltimore and washington and

throughout my entire career. from the point of view of black candidates and white candidates, race was always going to be the flashpoint. when it all came together, the obama campaign provided a frame for a story i have been following my whole life. guest: occasionally, i have a good idea and give it to someone else. i'm not that creative. i'm creative enough that usually i know something when i hear if it is good or bad. i am lucky enough to be attracted to very creative people in love to hang around and i think that has value because they like to be appreciated. they do things, they just do it little better than the other guys or maybe it's the people. there's a chemistry of some kind to which i have a reaction and

that's not a skill. that's just my good fortune. guest: if i can encourage other people to encourage their kids into something they want to do as i was encouraged when i was a kid, then that is great. then i can use it for that purpose. charlie: are you born with courage or can you acquire it through training? john: i think urges almost all acquired through training would be my view. you are born with a certain amount of courage and as you grow up, you grow up in a small town and get a lot of confidence in your own ability because of different things you do. that is part of it but the best way to have courage to do something is to train and train and train.

♪ >> japan leads markets higher.

the continues its gentle climb. donald trump underlying his tough line on china. his trade secretary is a longtime critic of beijing. and an investment firm of abuted in a slice dhabi. artillery brought down a g