>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: eli brody is one of the world's most prominent philanthropists. "the new yorker" called him the -- of los angeles. september ofed in a downtown showcase for his contemporary art collection. it is the fourth contemporary art museum he has conceived and brought to fruition. will mark the 10th anniversary of the stem cell research roadrs funded by the foundation. he and his wife have invested nearly $600 million in public

education. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. guest: it's good to be back. will talk about education. here you are with these twin passions, many passions, the twin passions. science on one hand and arts on the other. guest: an education in between. charlie: is there a connection for you between the two, or this is just where your heart is? that is where our heart is. there's no direct connection. i think you are very complementary trading we feel very good about what we have done in scientific and medical research, starting with the brodie institute partners with m.i.t. it has become quite large with 2500 people. they are doing great things. charlie: what are they doing that is great? includings of things, finding the cause of certain schizophrenia, for example.

charlie: is there a connection? guest: indeed. and what they are doing in cancer research and many other areas. charlie: cutting edge of science, is what it is. guest: it is indeed. and it has been for 14 years. charlie: what was the instinct to do it? guest: i have no background in science or medicine, but one of our sons has crohn's disease. david baltimore, on our board, said you've got to give a grant because he has a gene related to crohn's. so we gave him some money. 15 years ago, we are in cambridge, massachusetts. said, i want to see your lab.

we are blown away with computers and robotics going 24 hours a day with all these young, bright people from harvard medical school and m.i.t. said, i want to see your lab. so excited, they don't want to go home. i said, when are you going to be done decoding the human genome? he said tom april 2012. and then what do you want to do? he said, i went to institute all we've learned and give it a clinical application. he said, i need a hundred million dollars. i said, i hope you get it. so excited, they don't want to he didn't. i said, we will put up $100 million of harvard and anti--- and harvard and m.i.t. will do likewise. the first time we got both universities. and since then we have made large investments. charlie: that is $300 million, went out and found the other $500 million. explain how it works. they are doing hard research and

then they make the research available? guest: it's all free. reinvented how you conduct science, getting people creatingeir labs, platforms, whether it is computer scientist, mathematicians, engineers businesses. then we have the stem cell center, which we funded. muchie: you don't hear as where stem cell is. the focus has been so much in terms of artificial intelligence and gene editing. stem cell i assume is going straightforward ahead. example thereorstem cell i was something called baby bubbles. they figured out how to solve that problem, doing a lot of things, stem cells, everything

som geriatric problems to many things i can't describe. charlie: do you think the government is doing enough for science? guest: no. their budgetrs -- is really gone down about 21% real dollars a last 5 or 6 years. charlie: science and education and health, and all the research we have done, is what has made a strong. guest: absolutely. and we should continue to make those investments. charlie: what happened? just become part of the budget battles? guest: part of budget battles. and hopefully they won't make any more cuts. hopefully they will augment what nih gets, and nci, national

cancer institute. charlie: you are a businessman who did really well. what was the incentive to give back? guest: i've always felt an obligation to give back. has been very good to me. i'm the son of lithuanian immigrants who did very well in homebuilding and retirement savings. 16 years ago, we sold our last company and i said, i want to spend all my time giving back. whichcreated a foundation is in science, medical research, education reform, and the arts. and we feel great about all of that. charlie: bill gates did an amazing thing, he founded microsoft.

he had the software, the processes and all of that made possible. but you don't even think about them anymore because of that remark, that microsofthe thing e did. you think about it in terms of global health and education. the same is true of you. not so much about home building or retirement savings. you think about art museums and scientific centers and someone trying to rally people to figure out how to make america's educational process and system work. i have a great admiration for bill gates and the gates foundation, what they are doing, world health. we work together on education reform and other things. things: one of the you've always said -- was your book entitled "be unreasonable"? guest: "the artist being unreasonable." it was a quote by george bernard shaw who said the reasonable man or woman adopts -- a debt since

self to the world. the unreasonable person doesn't. all progress comes from unreasonable people. you defy convention, being unreasonable. it's one thing to be that way in business. it's another to do that in philanthropy and science and art. how have you been able to do that in these new fields, demanding different solutions? in the broad institute and stem saul centers there were things that didn't exist. we had three rules. if it's going to happen anyway, we don't get involved. we say, is it going to make a difference 20 years from now. makere a people that can it really happen. our foundation is different from others. 95% of what we do our things we thought about doing rather than waiting for people to come up with grant requests.

and we feel good about what we are doing in the arts, especially a new museum which has had over one million visitors since opening september 2015. charlie: let me talk about education. charter schools, how are they doing? guest: you are doing great. some are doing better than others. it's a constant battle. we love what's happening with success academy in new york city , a number of others. we are very supportive of quality charter schools. charlie: there are good charter schools and not so good charter schools. guest: correct. we give money to organizations close --ure that they the california charter cool association, national association of charter schools

-- you've got to get rid of the bad charter schools. charlie: what's wrong with american education? it is resistant to change . i have yet to meet a scientist who wants to maintain the status quo. they want to do in education, whether it's a or teachers union. want to change anything. they're fearful of change. charlie: because change means also there job? guest: it means loss of security, whether seniority, tenure, and the like. it is not easy to fix education. here is bill gates and warren buffett at this table on friday night. what could make us -- >> there's a lot of strengths we the way over decades,

we do research, our universities , the way that people take risks, and that's why our technology companies are still so strong, our biotech companies are still so strong. thatducation system is one we need to go back and look at. and that is one huge force of inequity, because you get a great education, the outcomes are pretty good. your experience is harder than you imagined. the u.s. education system, the dropout rate has , so that's bitand that is great, but the overall reading, scores, math scores, and the inequality hasn't budged much in the last 10 years. one of the goals of our foundation is to, working with partners, change that. and so far it's proven to be one of the tougher ones.

we still believe it is super important and they are promising if we look at individual schools, we see great things. we still believe it is achievable. charlie: you are a renaissance man in art in los angeles. what did you do and how did you do it and what did you find and why was it hard? .> i've always been innovative i've always had a thirst for knowledge. and i love what we are doing. charlie: but that doesn't get you there. you have to be willing to fight the fight. guest: fight the fight. charlie: find good people. eric lander, the head of broad institute, and many others. charlie: jeff koons is a favorite artist of yours. guest: we are fortunate to have been collecting jeff koons for

20-some years. and others. and others we met early on in the early 1980's whose work we could not afford today. charlie: i guess you could afford it. [laughter] what is the status? has it become a foremost center of art innovation? guest: i think it is a center of contemporary art. we had great art schools, ucla, cal arts, usc. we've had great artists in los angeles. there was a time you could not make it unless you were an artist in new york. that has changed now. that a leg cand a tough place to rally civic

and philanthropic support -- l.a. can be a tough place to rally civic and philanthropic support. guest: that is true. so, it's tough. charlie: but you've got some fantastic collectors out there. i raisedr mayor and $200 million to get walt disney concert hall built. there's a lot of good things happening. on grand avenue we now have an arts high school which we did not have 10, 15 years ago. we have a great new cathedral. we have the museum of contemporary art, which i was chairman of in 1979. all on the same street. grand avenue. science, art, education. it's a rather significant and important agenda to have. eli broad.

back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: the coming warren buffett is a new documentary. the film gives an inside look at the life of one of the richest men and biggest philanthropists in the world. it features never before released home videos, personal photographs, and interviews with and friends.ly

here is the trailer for "the coming warren buffett." the markets down this morning. buffett is the only person who from scratch built a company in the top 10 of fortune 500. >> i find it enjoyable. two turning points in my life. one when i came out of the womb. >> warren is smarter than you even know. >> i was a lopsided person and she put me together. >> the largest gift ever given, completely amazing. >> investment problems. they are easy. it is the human problems that

are the toughest. charlie: joining me now is the director of the film. welcome. >> thank you, charlie. charlie: how did this come about? you have made brilliant documentaries about sad subjects. guest: many of them are people who are no longer alive. it was a great pleasure to have a subject who is not only alive, but very alive. peter buffett, a friend of mine, i asked if it was a good time and heren in his life, thought he was a very reflective mood these days. he recommended i write him a letter. he put it on his desk and i got a a week back saying, let's do it. very exciting. charlie: tell me who it is the you have profiled here. in warren buffett. guest: i'm not a financial person. i went into this to try to figure out who the little boy was who became the man, and the

mega-billionaire. most of the films we work on kind of beginning childhood to try to fake -- fine close that tell you -- clothes that tell you about how they became who became. my feeling -- warren is famous for keeping became. emotion out of everything. but he's a hugely emotional guy, and emotional just beneath the surface. you've experienced that. you ask them questions that were hard for him answer and we have experienced the same kind of pushed back from him. he was willing to open up to a large degree and willing to have his children and sister open up even more. he very much wanted answer and e experienced the same kind of us to get the other side of the story from family and friends. there were certain areas that he could not go to, so he said speak to my sister, doris. he wanted the story to get out. charlie: he's thinking of doris

when he writes his letter to the stockholders, which makes it human and personable. guest: yes. when he's looking after his stockholder's money, it's as if it's his family. he's thinking of doris, that first group of investors he represented. i think his genius is a mind that can work so fast and retain it was aand makes logic and common sense that just doesn't usually get mixed together. his son howie says he's a computer and the hard drive never fills up. he's more than that. he's a very sensitive man who then interprets that data in a way most people can't. go ahead and order when you're ready. >> i will have a sausage mcmuffin with egg and cheese.

tha'ts it. thank you. 261, 295,wife, i say or 317. she puts that amount on a little -- in a little cup here and that determines which of 3 breakfasts i get. camera.re on candid >> i see you. hello. >> if i'm not feeling so prosperous, i might go with a 261. i put them together and pour m yself a coke. hi, how are you? cheesea bacon, egg, and biscuit. the market is down this morning. .pass up the 317 and go with 295. charlie: who has had influence with him -- on him? guest: two people -- he's

influenced by all his family and friends, and has a close network of friends. i think the two people who most influenced him were first his father, and then his first wife suzie. his father, he hangs his father's picture and portrait in his office. the lessons about principles and morals and ethics that his hiser taught him as a boy, father is still around. he lives with his father in mind. it's not like his father is from his past. charlie: his father was a congressman. guest: brought the family to warren'sn against will. warren is a very difficult years growing up in washington as a teenager, ran away and did not do well in school. and was very awkward around his peers. he was an awkward little boy, and he describes it as being lopsided socially.

so the second person who came was his life, his wife, someone who is just the opposite of warren. she wasn't cerebral. she had a giant heart. her heart poened up -- opened up warren in a way no one else had. she taught him to be a well-rounded human being who could identify and talk and be comfortable around people. the end of the film that he never would have been as successful as he has if it were for susie, that she was part of his success. charlie: he told me his life was a mess until the met her. i want to see some of these clips. i applied to harvard business school. they told me i was to get interviewed in a place in her chicago. i got there. they interviewed me for about 10 minutes.

he said, forget it. you are not going to harvard. so now i'm thinking, what do i tell my dad? it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. later that summer, i was looking for a catalog, and the catalog had the names of people that were teaching. and one with graham -- one was graham. i wrote them a letter in mid august and i said, dear professor, i thought you guys were dead. but now that i found out your alive and teaching at columbia, i would really like to come. and he admitted me. it just shows, you never can tell. charlie: do you think harvard regrets that? guest: to this day. [laughter] it was the perfect place for him. he learned value investing from graham and it ben

took him a long way and shaped berkshire hathaway until charlie mondor came into the picture. instead of buying good companies at great prices, he switched to great companies at good prices. graham and it took him a long way andand thatg around. graham was the third person who had huge influence on him in terms of the basic principles he still applied, on the modifications you suggested. guest: in a funny way, he was another father figure to him. he was very close personally. charlie: tis is warren's children talking about him as a father. i would not describe my childhood is normal, but who knows what normal is. people often think that warren buffett was this famous rich guy.

what i saw first and foremost day in and day out was consistency. every day we would hear the garage door close in the house. like clockwork, my dad would come in the door. i'm home. we would all eat dinner together , which i think surprises a lot of people. me toad used to rock sleep at night and sing "over the rainbow." i have this insanely sentimental attachment to that song. i've always had a close relationship with him. he's a very interesting man because of how funny he is. you saw a little bit of that at the business school. his humor is so quick and so well-timed. i think his timing is immaculate.

if people don't pick up the jokes, he will move on and you will realize what you missed later on. susie, who mentioned that he sung "over the rainbow" to her, i called her and said, did he ever sing that song, did he ever record that song? she said once he went to a karaoke studio and recorded it. she dug through all her things and found the original cassette and sent it to us. over the closing credits there is warren buffett singing "over the rainbow" to susie. has been buying significant positions in major companies and watching them grow. it's been a remarkable track record. guest: it's incredible. the lesson i think for all of us out of that is patience. not many of us can pick like warren picks because he has a

mind that -- he takes the risk out because he knows what he's going after. we all can learn from the fact that he's patient, and you don't have to trade things all the time. you can sit on something for a long time. you don't have to make many decisions in life to make a lot of money. charlie: there's also this, the sense of his judgment. remarkable sense of being able to -- and to know what he knows and what he doesn't know. for a long time didn't invest in technology companies. guest: he calls it his circle of competence. he shows a graphic of himself .tanding at a baseball plate ted williams had a box where if the pitch came through a hecific spot on that box, would know whether he would hit a home run or a pot. what is coming

across that plate and he makes the analogy that he doesn't have to swing. there all day. he waits month after month, year after year and when he's ready to swing at something, he swings . charlie: he's gotten to the place where it has to be a huge asset for him to buy. guest: there are many fewer opportunities than there used to be. i think a little bit of that part of the fun of it has gone out. it's not as fun as it used to be for him because there aren't the opportunities for him. charlie: it's also for me a perfect example of someone whose brand name, whose sense of doing business attracts people to him. a number of these people he invested in bot that company. they initiated the call. they wrote him letters. when i asked him to do this film, i wrote him a letter.

i wrote it on old-fashioned letterhead because i thought warren would respond to that. i've seen letters that came into him him -- from prospective companies to buy. and he judges the character of the person proposing it, he judges the character of the managers, and he gives managers of these companies a lot of room to move and do what they need to do, but he trusts them. unless you violate that trust, warren has your back. charlie: i said, what is it you do? he said, allocate capital. guest: he's exactly right. charlie: what's amazing too is he recruited these young people and many more who are out there, how we chose them, how he picks the people around him. that it tookims him a long time to learn human behavior because he was awkward as a young boy.

and he understood numbers that he did not understand people. and yet today, as bill gates , hislater in the film sense of taking something an understanding what they can do and what they can't do is beyond anything anyone else can do. he says, he's the best judge of people i know. that has come a huge, long way understanding what they can do and what they can't dofrom beine with people early on. charlie: it was perfect for him to meet bill gates. bill being who he is -- tell the story of how they met. guest: bill's mother wanted him to meet warren. bill was at microsoft, very busy, did not want to spend time away for microsoft and had no interest, and thought it was like -- as bill says, there's no value added here. they helicoptered out and

met one another and hit it off so big that they become best friends and he's on the board now. he's almost -- i asked bill gates if warren was like a father figure to him. he said yes, in a way. helicoptered out and met one another and hita father. at the end of the interview -- we do not use that piece in the film. at the end of the interview, his wife turned to me and said, that's the first time i've heard him say that. charlie: i've never heard him say that too and i've asked about the relationship a lot. bill often would say, of course, i have a father. they quickly coupled it with and a best friend. charlie: it seems like a unique relationship. he made the assessment that what you love doing and was best at was making money, finding companies, building companies, making investments, allocating capital. what bill had become very good at -- guest: a perfect

friendship-partnership. in that first meeting, bill's father asked him to play a game and say what word comes to mind that makes you both as successful as you are? they both said the word focus. they are so focused on what they do. warren is so focused on making money. bill is focused on giving it away. it is fortunate and it just works. what do you want people having away from, with, watched this hbo documentary? guest: what i came away, having deal of time in omaha, what i came away with was feeling refreshed that someone like warren, a billionaire with all the power he wants at his fingertips, with all the money he could ever make, is a decent human being. i think he's a lesson in decency and humanity and democracy.

he believes that every life has equal value. it's not the money. the money is secondary to what the man deal of time in omaha, what i came away with was feeling represents, and i think that goes back to his father's early teaching and susie's democratic, more liberal, more compassionate tendencies that were picked up on. charlie: i would only add to that integrity. a great sense of integrity. you don't planer the sidelines, you play near the center of the field. guest: in the film we do the salmon story. -- solomon story. when solomon got into trouble he took over as chairman. and testified in front of the senate committee. he said, if you lose a shred of reputation, you are finished. as long as you make mistakes, that's no problem. if you lose a shred of reputation -- it's all about integrity. said, you can spend

a lifetime building your reputation and lose it in one second. congratulations to you. the film is called "becoming warren buffett, a remarkable human being." the film is calledstay with us. ♪back in a moment.

i've spent my life planting a size-six, non-slip shoe into that door. on this side, i want my customers to relax and enjoy themselves. but these days it's phones before forks. they want wifi out here. but behind that door, i need a private connection for my business.

wifi pro from comcast business. public wifi for your customers. private wifi for your business. strong and secure. good for a door. and a network. comcast business. built for security. built for business. charlie: george washington used his farewell address to the nation as a warning to future

generations. he cautioned against many threats that still lingered today, including hyper partisanship, excessive debt, and foreign wars. his speech was more widely printed in the declaration of independence. yet today it is largely forgotten. the editor-in-chief of "the daily beast" is here. his book offers a nation of this historic address and considers its relevance today. welcome. guest: thank you, charlie. charlie: why this message? it is the most strikingly relevant artifact from the founding era. it's a memo from the first founding father to future generations and has direct applicability to what we are dealing with today. charlie: who wrote it? guest: washington was the author in terms of the the most strikiy relevant artifact from the founding era. it's a memo ideas straight he assembled the greatest team of ghost riders in history. james madison worked on the first draft of the end of the first term.

alexander hamilton to get on in the second term. the ideas are all washington's. charlie: tell me about the relationship between hamilton and george washington. guest: it's fascinating. it's rooted in the revolutionary war, when hamilton is a young officer who hamilton to get on n the second term. the ideas are all washington's. is in charge of this correspondence. over that period, they form a mind meld about the philosophy of the new republic they wish to enact, and really influenced by the fact that the continental congress was so weak and ineffectual and they were so chronically short of money at all times, but it did reinforce -- that it did reinforce the need for a strong, centralized, energetic government, and the need for fiscal discipline and responsibility, that fiscal an order could kill an army in war and kill a country in peace. charlie: you quote thomas jefferson on george washington. the moderation and virtue of a single character probably prevented this revolution from being closed.

as most others have been, by subversion of liberty it was intended to establish. charlie: that is the key quote. moderation and virtue. two qualities we perhaps under appreciate today in our elected leaders. a reminder that every great revolution up to that point, built on the promise of a great democratic republic, has been subverted by its leaders. a reminder that every great revolution up to thaton and on,e idealistic attempts to create a democratic republic that were toppled by their own excesses, usually by the leader of the army forming a new tyranny. the in washington's times, key fight is with the french revolution. it begins with this attempt to echo what we have done. jefferson and madison were eveny enthralled with it after he revealed itself to be a monstrous tyranny for lopping off heads. charlie: every president since washington -- have they offered

a farewell address? guest: almost everyone. simplyten they were letters to congress. what washington did was unique on two levels. he never gave the speech out loud trade was published in a newspaper, the "american daily advertiser." he wanted to offer an open letter to the american people, rather than treating to the monarch vehicle model of a king addressing the parliament. he did not just do it as a valedictory lapse. he wrote it as a warning rooted in his understanding of history up to that point in his own lessons in his life about how democratic republics die. he focused on these key warnings, hyper partisanship, excessive debt, and foreign wars. hyper partisanship, when the founders warned about narrow partisan factions hijacking a democracy, they warned about that not only because of special interest, but that over the time it leads to dysfunctional

democracy and frustration on the part of citizens that it opens the doors to a demagogue. therefore, fdr never gave a farewell address. guest: that's right. but the ones who did largely take that lesson from washington about a warning. that becomes the new tradition. the most famous other farewell address -- eisenhower. the military industrial complex. eisenhower explicitly inspired the washington's farewell address. there are memos passed around by his speechwriter saying, these are the models we need to look at. that key warning was one of the gifts that washington gave us, a parting morning from a friend address to friends and fellow citizens. it's a powerful thing that president obama tried to continue. charlie: this is president obama's farewell address in chicago on january 10 in which he references george washington's farewell address. obama: in his own

farewell address, george washington wrote that self-government is the underpinning of our safety, prosperity, and liberty. but, from different causes and from different in his own farewell address, george washington wrote that self-government is the quarters, much pains will be taken to weaken in your minds the conviction of this truth. to preserve this that we should reject the first dawning of every attempt to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to the sacred ties that make us one. [applause] america, we weaken those ties we allow our political

dialogue to become so corrosive, people of good we allow our poll dialogue to become so corrosive, people of good character aren't even willing to enter into public service. americans with only disagree -- whom we disagree are not only seen as misguided, but malevolent. we weaken those ties when we define some of us is more american than others. when we write off the whole system as inevitably corrupt. and when we sit back and blame withouters we elect examining our own role in electing them. it falls to each of us to be those anxious, jealous guardians of our democracies. embrace the joyous tasks we've been given, to continually try

to improve this great nation of ours. -- for all rall our be those anxious, jealous guardians of ourour differences, we sharee pastime, the most important office in the democracy, citizen . me what you up for think is farewell address was saying in terms of what he said about democracy. in conversations with me and others, isaying in terms of whad about democracy. in him, you so strongly believe that the country has the strongest military, strongest economy, strongest technology, strongest university. what could go wrong? and he always says, our politics. he'smilitary, incorporated intoe rings he thinks threaten our politics, which has to do with hacking and fake news and those kinds of things. charlie: the effect that obama's

threats was warnings to democracy underlines one of the commonalities. democracy is not a given. success is not preordained. this is an idealistic push back about centuries of cynicism about people's capacity to self govern. what washington and obama share is two things in particular. one, they both recognize in their farewell addresses that the ultimate backstop in democracy is rigorous citizenship or there is no substitute in self-government. there is a passionate attachment to the idea and ideal of national unity. all differences aside, washington also kept emphasizing that the national character which had not yet been created, he was consciously creating, that he warned against regional political parties. he said those could be dangerous because he saw the beginnings of a civil war. people were warning if he

asigned after his first term he wanted to, it could lead to a civil war. he said, let's focus on what unites us straight what president obama and george washington both said in their farewell address is our independence as a nation is inseparable from our interdependence as a as he wanted to, it could lead to a civil war. he said, let's focus people. that is a profound message and not everyone is always on the side of that. charlie: meaning, we are all in this together? guest: we are all in this together. what barack obama was warning about in that excerptcharlie: mn this together? is there will be conniving dividers to try to divide fellow americans against each other sometimes, pretending to represent real interests. washington called those folks pretend patriots. very often they were representing other nations. that is where there is a remarkable residence. washington's farewell address has been mischaracterized for a long time as being an argument for isolationism. he was making the case for a foreign policy of independence. he did not want america to become a satellite of another nation. he wanted us to have enough time

to grow in strength, economic and military. what he really was concerned about, he saw it with the french in his own administration trying to undermine his own government trade he saw it in the case of ancient republics. nations which try to infiltrate and influence to mystic politics to undermine sovereignty. when i was writing the book that seems like a distant concern. but dealing with the reality of russian hacking and trying to influence our election outcome -- vladimir putin did not come up with that playbook on his own. it is centuries old. reminds us that there are larger arcs and we have to learn them. charlie: -- were awashington knew we civilization and civilizations did not inevitably tend upward. that is our responsibility. charlie: does the relationship with jefferson?

guest: contentious. they were best described as frenemies. charlie: they were both men of virginia. guest: washington was in physical and psychic pain at the time he wrote his farewell address. onlyngton is our first and independent president. the constitution doesn't mention political parties. talentedhis two most surrogate sons in the cabinet at war with each other in very personal terms, not just political, hamilton and jefferson, while scheming to create separate political parties and jefferson doing so with medicine, who had been his closest aide, not from a thing -- nothing that washington tried to reunite the band of brothers who wrote the federalist papers for this address. when he realized jefferson and madison were scheming to undermine his administration, had traveled to get a newspaper editor to come to philadelphia

to form a partisan newspaper to attack the administration in very personal terms against washington, while on the state department payroll, that is a degree of duplicity mind-boggling even today. that results in a deep falling out between washington and jefferson, whereas his relationship with hamilton remains strong. hamilton remained loyal. it is partly because their politics ended up being so close. most of the attention in terms of provisions about standson -- where does he today, and is it more because of what he wrote early on than what he did later on? the louisiana purchase is pretty strong. viously, he's among the most romantic of our founding fathers because of the declaration. that stands tall on its own. what is ironic is the phrase

most people have said -- associate with washington's farewell address, and tangling alliances. that phrase does not appear in the farewell address. fighting toothr and nail with washington over partisan politics and policy for a decade, when he takes the oath of office defeating john adams, washington's vice president, his inaugural address is a full throated embrace of washingtonians. he becomes a born-again washingtonian. he re-articulates all the phrases washington tried to lay out. very often you say it doesn't matter where you stand. the office historically change the man more than the man changes the office. it's a fascinating arc. charlie: this is a book about speeches. what is fascinating to me, john kennedy talked about winston churchill mobilizing the english language and sending it to battle. what's interesting is how single speeches can make such a

difference in your political rise. david cameron made one great speech and got elected prime minister. barack obama had won his position in chicago as a state legislator on the iraqi war, but he had one great speech that catapulted him. barack obama hadbill clinton d't happen. speeches can make a difference. do we treasure them today? guest: not enough. there's a drift towards 140 characters and pithy quotes. i think great speeches to the sample of david cameron and barack obama can still matter. having inspiration that has durable wisdom behind it. charlie: michelle obama, in arms of speeches she made at democratic convention, could have been politically changing for her, should she want to be a

political candidate. guest: for her. wisdom is perhaps something we don't value enough. charlie: moderation is a foundation -- guest: for effective governance in a democracy. intended to be renewable resources, which is why we can rediscover them when they are nearly applicable. there's that great song, one last time. all of a sudden, the speech which had been largely forgotten is all of a sudden on people's ipads and car radios. that is one of the ways we do what we need to do, which is make the old stories new again. great speeches can do that. they draw on deeper themes and hold us to a higher standard. we do need to venerate them. we do need to seek them out. they remind us of our best selves, and we need that in a democracy. charlie: it's interesting about donald trump in that campaign.

if there was one thing that reflected his campaign, it was rallies. it was one thing that gave him inspiration and gave him strength of that, gave him energy and inspiration. and, it was something that i think he fed on. there weren't really speeches. it was simply a conversation. a conversation with that audience of people, same conversation every time. he's continuing that. guest: his inaugural address was not a conversation between generations. he once had to tell that she described it as a performance. i think that is one of the lines oureed to be wary of in politics, when our politicians start performing, when they start appealing to the lowest common denominator, not appealing to our better a ngels. one of the twisted scenes out of this book, 1939 there was a nazi rally in madison square garden. they had a 30 foot banner of

george washington surrounded by swastikas. the keynote speech was an attempt to re-appropriate the farewell address. this and completely twisted. talk about pretend patriotism. that's an example of when people try to misuse the iconography of american politics. donald trump inspired a lot of people -- guest: it was a conversation more than a speech. charlie: it was not a speech. guest: he does not do addresses in that way. you have to give him credit for taking advantage of a new medium. fdr mastered adiradio. people will credit donald trump for using social media. but there's a lot that's lost. conversation, a deeper responsibility. the responsibility of self-governance is nothing we can dig into. that is one of the core messengers the founders tried to set. charlie: thank you for coming. the book is called "washington's farewell, the founding fathers

warning to future generations." more than that. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

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