♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: eli broad is one of the world's most prominent philanthropists. "the new yorker" called him the -- of los angeles. the broad opened in september of 2015 as the downtown showcase for his contemporary art collection. it is the fourth contemporary art museum he has conceived and brought to fruition. next month will mark the 10th anniversary of the stem cell research centers funded by the broad foundation. he and his wife have also invested nearly $600 million in public education. i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. eli: it's good to be back.

.harlie: thank you your is what is interesting. -- here is what is interesting. we will talk about education. that is very much a part of the portfolio. here you are with these twin passions, many passions, the twin passions. science on one hand and arts on the other. eli: and education in between. charlie: is there a connection for you between the two, or this is just where your heart is? eli: that is where our heart is. there's no direct connection. i think you are very complementary, we feel very good about what we have done in scientific and medical research, starting with the institute partnering with m.i.t. it has become quite large with 2500 people. they are doing great things. charlie: what are they doing that is great? eli: lots of things, including finding the cause of certain schizophrenia, for example. charlie: right.

finding a genetic connection? eli: they are indeed. and what they are doing in cancer research and many other areas. charlie: cutting edge of science, is what it is. eli: it is indeed. and it has been for 14 years. charlie: what was the instinct to do it? eli: i have no background in science or medicine, but one of our sons has crohn's disease. david baltimore, on our board, said you've got to give a grant to eric lander, who is decoding genomes for the government, because he has a gene related to crohn's. so we gave him some money. then one day, 15 years ago we , are in cambridge, massachusetts. i said eric i want to see your , lab. we are blown away with computers and robotics going 24 hours a day with all these young, bright people from harvard medical

school and m.i.t. so excited, they don't want to go home. i said eric, when are you going to be done decoding the human genome? he said april 2012. and then what do you want to do? -- 2002. charlie: right. he said, i want to start in institute with everything we have learned and give it a clinical application. he said, i need a hundred million dollars. i said, i hope you get it. he didn't. i said, we will put up $100 million and harvard and m.i.t. will do likewise. so it is the first time we got both universities. and since then we have made large investments. charlie: that is $300 million, went out and found the other $500 million. eli: and since then, we were in there for $700 million. charlie: explain how it works. they are doing hard research and then they make the research available? eli: it's all free.

it is all on the internet. and, they reinvented how you conduct science, getting people out of their labs, creating platforms, whether it is computer scientists, mathematicians, engineers, physicists chemists. , then we have the 4 stem cell centers, which we funded. three i should say. charlie: you don't hear as much , maybe it is just my ears that do not hear as much, where stem cell is. the focus has been so much in terms of artificial intelligence and gene editing. stem cell, i assume, is going straightforward ahead. and figuring out how they can use it. eli: it is. well, for example there was something called baby bubbles. charlie: right. eli: they figured out how to solve that problem, doing a lot of things, stem cells, everything from geriatric

problems to so many things i can't describe. charlie: let me ask you do you , think the government is doing enough for science? eli: no, no. --fact, in real dollars their budget has really gone down about 21% real dollars a -- the last 5 or 6 years. charlie: science and education and health, and all the research we have done, is what has made a -- made us strong. eli: absolutely. and we should continue to make those investments. they have really paid off in spades. charlie: what happened? just become part of the budget battles? eli: part of budget battles. and hopefully they won't make any more cuts. hopefully they will augment what nih gets, and nci, national

cancer institute. charlie: you are a businessman who did really well. eli: i did. [laughter] charlie: and, what was the incentive to give back? where did that come from? eli: i've always felt an obligation to give back. the country has been very good to me. i'm the son of lithuanian immigrants who did very well in homebuilding and retirement savings. 16 years ago, we sold our last company and i said, i want to spend all my time giving back. so we created a foundation which is in science, medical research, education reform, and the arts. and we feel great about all of that. charlie: it is like bill gates. bill gates did an amazing thing, he founded microsoft. and created a revolution with intel. he had the software, the

processes and all of that made possible. but you don't even think about him anymore because of that remarkable microsoft thing he did. you think about him in terms of global health and education. the same is true of you. not so much about home building or retirement savings. you think about art museums and scientific centers and someone trying to rally people to figure out how to make america's educational process and system work. eli: you know i have a great , admiration for bill gates and the gates foundation, what they are doing in world health. we work together on education reform and other things. charlie: one of the things you've always said -- was your book entitled "be unreasonable"? eli: the art of being unreasonable. charlie: what did he mean by that -- you mean by that? eli: it is a quote by george

bernard shaw who said the reasonable man or woman adopts -- a debt since self to the world. the unreasonable person doesn't. all progress comes from unreasonable people. charlie: you defy convention, being unreasonable. all of that, it is one thing to be that way in business. it's another to do that in philanthropy and science and art. how have you been able to do that in these new fields, demanding different solutions? well, in the broad institute and stem cell centers there were things that didn't , exist. we had three rules. if it's going to happen anyway, we don't get involved. we say, is it going to make a difference 20 years from now. and thirdly, are there people that can make it really happened. our foundation is different from others. 95% of what we do our things we -- are things that we thought about doing, rather than waiting for people to come up with grant requests. charlie: 95%.

eli: exactly. and we feel good about what we are doing in the arts, especially a new museum which has had over one million visitors since opening september 2015. charlie: i want to come to the art. let's talk about education for a minute. charter schools, how are they doing? eli: charter schools are doing great. some are doing better than others. charlie: with the support of government officials, some do not. eli: it's a constant battle. we love what's happening with success academy in new york city, a number of others. and we are big supporters of quality charter schools. charlie: there are good charter schools and not so good charter schools. eli: correct. we give money to organizations to make sure that they close -- close the bad charter schools. like california charter cool associationchool

national association of charter , schools -- you've got to get rid of the bad charter schools. charlie: what's wrong with american education? eli: what is wrong is it is resistant to change. scientist to meet a who wants to maintain the status quo. but that is all they want to do in education whether it's a , bureaucracy or teachers union. they don't want to change anything. they're fearful of change. charlie: because change means also their job? eli: it means loss of security, whether seniority, tenure, and the like. charlie: everybody knows, it is not easy to fix education. here is bill gates and warren buffett at this table on friday night. charlie: what could make us -- >> there's a lot of strengths we built up over decades, the way we do research, our universities, the way that people take risks, and that's

why our technology companies are still so strong, our biotech companies are still so strong. so, the education system is one that we need to go back and look at. and that is one huge force of -- source of inequity, because you get a great education, the outcomes are pretty good. charlie: your experience is telling you that it is harder than you imagined. >> improving the u.s. education system, yes. the dropout rate has gone down a bit, so that's great, but the overall reading scores math , scores, and the inequality hasn't budged much in the last 10 years. one of the goals of our foundation is to, working with partners, change that. and so far it's proven to be one of the tougher ones. we still believe it is super

important and they are promising if we look at individual schools, we see great things. we still believe it is achievable. charlie: you are a renaissance man in art in los angeles. what did you do and how did you do it and what did you find and why was it hard? bill: -- eli: i've always been innovative. i've always had a thirst for knowledge. and i love what we are doing. in all three areas. charlie: but that doesn't get you there. you have to do a lot more. you have to be willing to fight the fight. eli: fight the fight. charlie: find good people. eli: we have the best people. whether it is the director of our museum, who has been with me for 20 some odd years. eric lander, the head of broad institute, and many others. charlie: jeff koons is a favorite artist of yours. to: we are very fortunate have been collecting jeff koons for 20-some years.

and others. whether it is cindy sherman, and others we met early on in the early 1980's whose work we could not afford today. [laughter] i guess you could afford it. what is the status? has it become a foremost center of art innovation? eli: i think it is a center of contemporary art. charlie: exactly. eli: we had great art schools, whether it's ucla, cal arts, usc. art center college. we've had great artists in los angeles. there was a time you could not make it unless you were an artist in new york. that has changed now. charlie: michael, who you know well, did a profile in the new york times and he said that los angeles can be a tough place to rally civic and philanthropic

support. eli: that is true. so, it's tough. it is not like the older cities like boston or san francisco. charlie: but you've got some fantastic collectors out there. eli: grand avenue for example. our mayor and i raised $200 million to get walt disney concert hall built. and there's a lot of good things happening. on grand avenue we now have an arts high school which we did not have 10, 15 years ago. we have a great new cathedral. we have the museum of contemporary art, which i was chairman of in 1979. charlie: this is all on the same avenue. eli: all on the same street. grand avenue. charlie: thank you for coming. eli: good to be here. charlie: science, art, education. it's a rather significant and important agenda to have. eli broad. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: "becoming warren buffett" is a new documentary. the film gives an inside look at the life of one of the richest men and biggest philanthropists in the world. it features never before released home videos, personal photographs, and interviews with warren's family and friends. here is the trailer for "becoming warren buffett."

>> i will have a sausage mcmuffin with egg and cheese. >> the markets down this morning. i think i will pass of the 317. >> warren buffett is the only person who from scratch built a company in the top 10 of fortune 500. >> i was always playing around with numbers. i find it enjoyable. there were two turning points in my life. one when i came out of the womb. >> warren is smarter than you even know. >> i was a lopsided person and she put me together. >> i thought i would have money and then she would on pile the money into a foundation. 95% of everything i make will go to others. >> the largest gift ever given, completely amazing. >> investment problems. they are easy. it is the human problems that are the toughest. ♪ charlie: joining me now is the

director of the film, peter kunhardt. i am pleased to have him at this table. welcome. peter: thank you, charlie. charlie: how did this come about? you have made brilliant documentaries about sad subjects. peter: many of them are people who are no longer alive. so it was a great pleasure to have a subject who is not only alive, but very alive. peter buffett, a friend of mine, i asked him if it was a good time for warren in his life, and he thought he was a very reflective mood these days. he recommended i write him a letter. he put it on his desk and i got a letter a week back saying let's do it. , very exciting. charlie: tell me who it is the -- that you have profiles here. in warren buffett. peter: i'm not a financial person. i went into this to try to figure out who the little boy was who became the man, and the mega-billionaire.

and most of the films we work on kind of begin there, they begin in childhood to try to find you howues that tell they became who they became. warren is famous for keeping emotion out of everything. but he's a hugely emotional guy, and emotional just beneath the surface. you've experienced that. i have watched you ask him questions that were hard for him to answer and we experienced the same kind of pushed back from him. he was willing to open up to a large degree and willing to have his children and sister open up even more. he very much wanted us to get the other side of the story from family and friends. charlie: more of the human story. peter: that is right. there were certain areas that he could not go to, so he said speak to my sister, doris. he wanted the story to get out. he just could not be the one to convey it to -- convey it.

charlie: he's thinking of doris when he writes his letter to the stockholders, which makes it human and personable. peter: yes. when he's looking after his stockholder's money, it's as if it's his family. as you say, he is thinking of doris, that first group of investors he represented. charlie: what is his genius? peter: i think his genius is a mind that can work so fast and retain so much, and makes it was -- and mix it with a logic and common sense that just doesn't usually get mixed together. his son howie says he's a computer and the hard drive never fills up. but he is more than that. he's a very sensitive man who then interprets that data in a way most people can't. >> good morning. thank you for choosing mcdonald's. go ahead and order when you're ready. >> i will have a sausage mcmuffin with egg and cheese. >> anything else?

>> that is it. thank you. i tell my wife as i am shaving in the morning i say 261, 295, , or 317. she puts that amount on a little -- in a little cup here and that determines which of 3 breakfasts i get. >> ok. >> how are you doing? >> great. you are on candid camera. >> i see you. hello. >> if i'm not feeling so prosperous, i might go with a 261. that is to sausage patties and i put them together and pour myself a coke. hi, how are you? >> good. >> 317 is a bacon, egg, and cheese biscuit. but the market is down this morning, so i think i will pass up the 317 and go with 295. charlie: who has had influence on him? peter: you know, i think that the two people -- he is

influenced by all his family and friends, and has a close network of friends. but i think the two people who most influenced him were first his father, and then his first wife suzie. charlie: right. peter: his father, he hangs his father's picture and portrait in his office. he sits at his father's desk. the lessons about principles and morals and ethics that his father taught him as a boy, his father is still around. he lives with his father in mind. it's not like his father is from his past. he is very much a part of his present. charlie: his father was a congressman. peter: brought the family to washington against warren's will. and he had a very difficult years growing up in washington as a teenager, ran away and did not do well in school. and was very awkward around his peers. he just he was an awkward little , boy, and he describes it as being lopsided socially. so the second person who came

into his life, his wife, was someone who is just the opposite of warren. she wasn't cerebral. she was -- she had a giant heart. and her heart opened up warren in a way no one else had. she taught him to be a well-rounded human being who could identify and talk and be comfortable around people. he says at the end of the film that he never would have been as successful as he was, if it were not for susie, that she was part of his success. charlie: he told me his life was a mess until the met her. i want to see some of these clips. some of them have never been seen before. >> when i got out of nebraska, i applied to harvard business school. they told me i was to get interviewed in a place near chicago. i got there. they interviewed me for about 10 minutes. and he said forget it.

, you are not going to harvard. so now i'm thinking, what do i tell my dad? this is terrible. it turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me. later that summer, i was looking for a catalog, and the catalog had the names of people that were teaching. one was graham. i had read this book by the two of them. i wrote them a letter in mid august and i said, dear i thought you, guys were dead. but now that i found out your alive and teaching at columbia, i would really like to come. and he admitted me. [laughter] >> it just shows you never can , tell. charlie: do you think harvard regrets that? peter: to this day. [laughter] peter: it was the perfect place for him. and you learned value investing from ben graham and it took him a long way and shaped berkshire hathaway until charlie mondor came into the picture.

and kind of reversed the thinking, so instead of buying good companies at great prices, he switched to great companies at good prices. and that turned everything around. charlie: it did have a significant effect. ben graham was the third person who had huge influence on him in terms of the basic principles he still applied, on the modifications you suggested. peter: and i think in a funny way, he was another father figure to him. he used to come to his house and watch movies and hang out with the family. he was very close personally. charlie: this is warren's children talking about him as a father. >> i would not describe my childhood as normal but who , knows what normal is. people often think that warren buffett was this famous rich guy. he was not famous and he was not rich when we were growing up. what i saw first and foremost day in and day out was consistency.

every day we would hear the garage door close in the house. and then like clockwork, my dad would come in the door. i'm home. we would all eat dinner together, which i think surprises a lot of people. >> my dad used to rock me to sleep at night and sing "over the rainbow." i have this insanely sentimental attachment to that song. i've always had a close relationship with him. ♪ charlie: he is also a very interesting man because of how funny he is. is a sense of humor is probably not known as well by those people who have not been in contact with him. you saw a little bit of that at the business school. peter: that is right. his humor is so quick and so well-timed. i think his timing is immaculate. if people don't pick up the jokes, he will move on and you

will realize what you missed later on. susie, who mentioned that he sung "over the rainbow" to her, i called her and said, did he ever sing that song, did he ever record that song? she said once he went to a karaoke studio and recorded it. she dug through all her things and found the original cassette and sent it to us. so the closing credits are warren buffett singing "over the rainbow" to susie. very funny and touching at the same time. charlie: he has been brilliant in buying significant positions in major companies and watching them grow. whether it is american express or coca-cola. he has a remarkable track record. peter: it's incredible. the lesson i think for all of us out of that is patience. not many of us can pick like warren picks because he has a mind that -- he takes the risk

out of it because he knows what he's going after. we all can learn from the fact that he's patient, and you don't have to trade things all the time. you can sit on something for a long time. you don't have to make many decisions in life to make a lot of money. that was a big lesson that i took from it. charlie: there is a sense of his judgment. a remarkable sense of being able to -- and to send no -- and to know what he knows and what he doesn't know. for a long time didn't invest in technology companies. because he says he did not understand it. peter: he calls it his circle of competence. he shows a graphic of himself standing at a baseball plate. and ted williams had a box where if the pitch came through a specific spot on that box, he would know whether he would hit a home run or a pot. warren knows exactly what is

coming across that plate. he makes the analogy that he doesn't have to swing. he waits month after month, and when he deserted his wing and something, he swings. it gets to the point where he has to be a huge asset for him to buy. peter: 90 fewer opportunities than there used to be. of it hasof the fun gone. there aren't the opportunities for him. purple: for me it is a -- it is a perfect example of who's doing business attracts people to him. a number of these people who he is invested in by his company. peter: they wrote him letters. when i asked him to do this film, i wrote him a letter on

old-fashioned letterhead. respondt warren would to that. i saw letters coming in from prospective companies to buy, and he judges the character of the person proposing it to him. he judges the character of the managers. he gives managers of these companies a lot of religion, but he trusts -- a lot of room to move, but he trusts them. charlie: they send the money to omaha, and i interest it. people andd these how he sticks the people around him, his sense of talent. >> he claims it takes him a long time to learn human behavior because he was awkward as a

young point. he understood numbers but not people. as bill gates says later in the film, his sense of picking people and what they can and anythingis beyond anyone else can do. that has come in a huge way from being unable to communicate with people early on. charlie: it was perfect for him to meet bill gates because bill tells the story of how they met. peter: bill's mother wanted to did not want to spend time away from microsoft and has no interest in investing. as phil says, there is no value -- bill says, there is no value added here. they hit it off so big they have become best friends. he is ont he board now.

i asked bill gate if warren was like a father figure to him. he said yes, in a way he is a father figure and friend. at the end of the interview, his wife turned to me and said that was the first time i heard him say that. iarlie: bill would often say, have a father, and he died. peter: he quickly coupled it with, and a best friend. charlie: it seems like it is a unique relationship. he made the assessment. what you love doing and what he was best that was making money. allocating capital. what bill had become good at was giving it away. peter: a perfect partnership. in that first meeting, bill's

father asks them to play again minday, what word comes to that brought you to be as successful as you are? they both said focus. -- itlly is a fortunate just works. charlie: he even has bill to claim -- to play bridge. [laughter] what do you want people to come away with having watched this hbo documentary? peter: having spent a great deal of time in omaha, i came away feeling refreshed that someone like warren, a billionaire with all of the power that he wants at his fingertips, with all the money he could ever make, is a decent human being. he is a lesson in decency and humanity and democracy.

he believes every life has equal value. the money is secondary to what the men represents. that goes back to his early teaching, and susie's democratic more liberal compassionate tendencies that warren picked up on. charlie: he has a great sense of integrity. that you don't play on the sidelines, you play in the center of the field. peter: in the film, we do the solomon story. everyone was surprised when he bought into solomon. he took over as chairman and testified in front of the senate committee. he said, if you lose a shred of reputation, you are finished. as long as you make mistakes, that is ok. it is all about integrity. charlie: you said you could lose it in one second.

congratulations. becoming is called " warren buffet." a remarkable human being. stay with us. ♪

charlie: george washington used his farewell address as a warning to future generations, a caution against many threats

that linger today, including hyper partisanship, debt and foreign wars. his speech was famous for about 150 years and more famous than the declaration of independence. today it is largely forgotten. john avalon's book "washington's farewell" offers an explanation of this historic address and explains its relevance today. why this speech? strikinglyost relevant artifacts from the founding era. it is a memo from the first founding father to future generations and has direct applicability to today. charlie: who wrote it? john: washington was the main author of the ideas. but he assembled the greatest team of ghost writers. james madison worked on the first turn, alexander hamilton on the last turn. the idea -- the words are all

hamiltons, but the ideas are all washington's. charlie: tell us about the relationship between hamilton and washington. the period, they form a mind meld about the philosophy of the new republic they wish to interact. influenced by the fact that the continental congress was so chronically short of money that is reinforced couple key ideas they carried forward. the need for a strong centralized energetic government and the need for fiscal responsibility. if fiscal affairs were not in order, it could kill a country at war and in peace. charlie: you quote thomas jefferson "the moderation of a single character preventer this revolution from being closed, as others have been by subversion

of the liberty it was intended to establish." john: that is the key quote, moderation and virtue. 2 qualities we underappreciated in our elected leaders. every great revolution built on the promise of a great democratic republic had been subverted by his leaders, whether it was oliver cromwell in the english civil war. we see these idealistic attempts to create a republic coupled by their own excesses, usually by the leader of the army for me and you kind of tyranny. attempt to echo what we have done. --icine is controlled for madison is enthralled. charlie: every president sense offered a farewell address? yes, taking the

assassinations off of the top. they were letters to congress. what washington did was unique. in a newspaper, he never gave it out loud. he wanted an open letter to the american people rather than retreating to the monarchy called model of the king addressing parliament. she did not do it as a victory lap -- look at all these things i accomplished. he did it as a warning, about how democratic republics die. he focused on hyper partisanship, excessive debt, and foreign wars.and the founders partisanshipper hijacking a democracy. over time, it leads to a dysfunctional democracy and such frustration that it opens the doors to a demagogue.

charlie: fascinating when you said about assassinations preventing farewell addresses. so does dying in office. fdr never gave a farewell address. john: but the ones who did take the lesson from washington about a warning. the other famous warning is from eisenhower about the military-industrial complex. he writes it inspired about washington's address. they shared a lot in common. that key warning was one of the gifts that washington gave us, a person warning from - a person warning from a friend. charlie: this is from president obama's farewell address in which he references george washington's farewell address. pr in his ownes. obama: -- pres.

that --ashington wrote from different causes into different quarters, much pains will be taken to we can in your minds to conviction of this truth. so we have to preserve this truth with jealous anxiety that we reject the first dawning of any attempt to to alienate any portion of our country from the rest, or to enfeeble the sacred ties that make us one." [applause] pres. obama: we we can those ties when we allow our political dialogue to become so corrosive when people are of good character not even willing to enter the public, so corase with

rancor where americans with whom we disagree are seen as not just misguided, but malevolent. ties when wese define some as more american than others. when we write off the whole system is inevitably corrupt. [applause] and when we sent back and blames the leaders we elect without examining our own role in electing them. [applause] it falls to each of us to be those anxious, jealous guardians of our democracy. embrace the joyous task we have been given to continually try to improve this great nation of

ours. because for all of our outward cultureces, we in fact share the same -- we share the same office and democracy. me what you up for think his farewell address was saying, in terms of democracy and progress of democracy. in conversations with me, i have said to him, you so strongly believe that this country has the strongest military in technology and universities, what could go wrong? he said politics. means gridlock and a range of things. he" rates that into what he incorporates that into what he thinks threatens our democracy, packing and all those -- hacking. john: that underscores one of

the commonalities, this discussion between presidents and generations. democracy is not a given. the success is not preordained. this is an idealistic push back about cynicism about people's capacity to self govern. washington and obama share 2 things in particular. one, they both recognize in their farewell addresses that the ultimate backstop to democracy is a great citizenship -- vigorous citizenship. there is a testament to the idea of national unity. emphasizes that the national character, which hadn't yet been created, he warned against regional political parties. he said those could be dangerous. lead tohought it could a civil war.

people thought, let's focus on what unites us, not what divides us. understood both passionately is that our independence as a nation is separate from our interdependence as a people. not everyone is always on the side of that. meaning we are all in this together. what barack obama was warning in that excerpt is that there will be dividers who try and divide americans against each other, sometimes presenting -- sometimes pretending to represent real interests. washington called them fake patriots. that is where there is a remarkable resonance. washington's farewell address has been mischaracterized as an argument for isolationism. was making the case for a foreign policy of independence. he doesn't want america to become another satellite nation. he wanted us to have enough time

to grow in strength. --t he was concerned about in the case of ancient republics in greece and rome, foreign nations would try to infiltrate domestic politics to infiltrate sovereignty. when i was writing the book, that seemed like a distant concerned. --distant concern. vladimir putin did not come up with the playbook on his own. that is centuries old. it provides a perspective on our own problems. we relies there are larger arcs. charlie: that history will be repeated. john: that is right. washington knew that we were a civilization, and civilizations did not tend upwards.

washington -- charlie: they were both men of virginia. john: washington was in physical and psychic pain the time that he wrote his farewell address. washington is our only depend president -- independent president. talentedhis 2 most surrogate sons in the cabinet at war with each other in personal terms, hamilton and jefferson, while scheming to create separate political parties, as jefferson had done with madison. not for nothing that washington tried to reunite this band of brothers that wrote the address. when he realized that his own secretary of state and chief legislative leader had traveled to get a newspaper editor to come to philadelphia to for a partisan newspaper to attack the

administration in personal terms against washington while on the state to payment payroll, that his duplicity that is mind-boggling today. jefferson denied it at first. that results in a deep falling out, with his relationship with hamilton remains strong. it is because their politics ended up being so close. with owner has been -- where does he stand as a president today? is it more because of what he wrote early on than what he did? the louisiana purchase stands pretty strong. john: he is among the most romantic of our fathers because of the declaration.

what people associate with his address is entangling alliances. that phrase does not appear in washington's address, but jefferson's inaugural. jefferson, after fighting tooth and nail over partisan politics, when he defeats john adams, his inaugural address is a full throated embrace of washingtonian is. calculates all of the phrases washington tried to lay out. the office historically changed demand more than it changed the office. charlie: this is a book about speeches. john kennedy talked about winston churchill mobilizing the english language and sending it to battle. what is interesting is how single speeches can make such a

difference in your political rise. in britain, david cameron made a great speech and was elected prime minister. obama hadma and -- won his position on the iraqi war, but had one great speech that catapulted him. bill clinton did not have that -- he came to the process of being governor and primaries. speeches can make a difference. do we treasure them today? john: not enough. as a drift toward 140 characters and pithy quotes. i think this can still matter. it is about having inspiration with durable wisdom behind it. charlie: and michelle obama, the democratic convention, that could have been a clinical changing for her -- political changing for her had she wanted

it. charlie: we don't view strength as a foundational moderation. charlie: moderation as a foundation? john: for effective democracy. we have denigrated that. they are intended to be renewable sources, which is why we can rediscover them. when i was writing the book "halfway through," the play "hamilton" came out. this speech that had been forgotten is suddenly on everyone's radios. the goal is to make old speeches speeches new-- again. we need to seek them out. it is good for a democracy. charlie: if there was one thing that reflected donald trump's

campaign, it was rallies. one thing that gave him strength and energy end inspiration. on.as something that he fed they weren't really speeches. it was simply a conversation with that audience. the same conversation every time. and he is continuing that. john: his inaugural address was just an extension of the campaign speech. he described it as a performance. that is one of the lines that we need to be wary of in politics, when politicians start performing and appeal to the lowest common denominator, not better angels. in 1939 there was a rally in manikin square garden, 20,000 americans showed up at this nazi rally, a banner of george

washington surrounded by swastikas. the goal was to re-appropriate the address. that is an example of when people misuse the iconography of american politics. donald trump inspires a lot of people. charlie: this is the same thing over and over. john: it was not a speech. he does not do addresses in the same way. give him credit for taking advantage of a new medium. people will give credit to donald trump for using social media. it is his attention span if nothing else. there is a lot that is lost. there is a deeper responsibility. responsibility of self-governmence is something we can take for granted. that is an old story we need to make new again. charlie: the story is "washington's farewell."

thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

♪ >> the fed notes rising confidence in the u.s. economy but leaves rates on hold for now. >> market attention turns to friday's payroll numbers after janet yellen offers few rate hike ends - hike hints. >> bigger u.s. stockpiles counter other cuts elsewhere. >> in washington hits at iran for its latest missile launch. president trump is back