♪ from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin tonight with iran. friday morning, the trump administration announced a new sanctions against iran. it comes from a response to a new ballistic firing earlier in the week. individuals with relations to the revolutionary guard. joining me, my guests. i begin first with david sanger.

david, why are they doing this? will it be successful and what will achieve? charlie, they are doing this because they want to set a new tone and they want to set it right away. general flynn, michael flynn, the national security advisor. he issued a statement in which he said the old method of watching a missile firing and then gathering the united nations general assembly or security council together to issue a pronouncement against were over.those days that that was an effective. so, he announced a series of , quite friendly, looked a fair bit like the kind of sanctions the obama administration -- quite frankly, looked a fair bit like the kind of sanctions the obama administration and now -- announced a year ago. they revealed a little bit more about what they knew about suppliers the a rainy and --

had anrs the iranians signaling to them, we know where you live and we are in a new era now we can make your life a little more reasonable. the question is, what do they do after this? sanctions are within the 40-yard lines for how you deal with an .dversary like iran do they intercept shipping? do they take more aggressive's actions in the gulf? do they step up the pressure in a way the iranians would react? all the critics pounce on the idea it does nothing about iranian behavior. and here comes this new administration talking about iranian behavior right away and linking it to the iran deal, but , byspecifically

talking about missiles. how will he run react? the obama administration made it run uncomfortable with their engagement and overtures, and i think the trump administration is unpredictable for them. iran has always liked to isw that external pressure not going to modify their behavior. they are not going to give in as a result to pressure. is key about the geopolitical context now is that under obama, the united states managed to assemble a pretty robust international coalition to isolate iran financially, politically, and force iran into a nuclear compromise. i think iran probably senses now with president trump in and a president in

tehran who was thought to be a moderate, a foreign minister is thought to be reasonable, it's going to be much tougher for washington to assemble this broad international coalition against iran. especially when you look at the context of the middle east, a region which is unraveling. a lot of the countries around the world, especially china, , see it ron as a force foree iran as a stability and an active agent against the morn of various force, which is isis. i think iran probably feels they obviously have to watch the first weeks of the trump administration carefully, but what happened when the united states managed to isolate the world against iran, i think it

will be more difficult this time around. davide: exactly -- explained to me about the missiles and what they violated. and what is the purpose of doing it? david: the purpose of doing the missile testing is to show we are still here and for the iranian revolutionary guard corps and others who have built their reputation inside iran by opposition to the united states, nuclearhat despite the deal, they are trying to muscle their way through the region. i think the very good question that karim raises here is due that no one sense is going to join the united states and standing up to them here? partly because a lot of countries in the region have missiles, so i'm iselle violation seems to be -- so a

assile violation seems to be concern, but concern around the margins. secondly, i think they did a very good job watering down the united nations resolution on passed justt was days after the nuclear accord. you may remove or this was negotiated in july 2015, right after the nuclear accord was sealed, by john kerry and his iranian counterpart. -- john kerry pro counterpart was pleased that it merely called on iran to show restraint and not to have a missile designed to carry a nuclear weapon. this was not designed to carry a nuclear weapon. obviously it could be modified to do so in the future. they are arguing there is no

basis for sanctions at all, and just an hour or two ago, we iranians announced that they will launch counter sanctions against american individuals and companies. those will not amount to much, but in iran, i think this could be significant helping the hardliners once again have their favorite adversary in the fore. they announced that they were putting in iran on notice. philip gordon said by issuing a warning soap precise -- so precise, he is setting the united states up for either an embarrassing retreat or a risky confrontation. are either of those likely? karim? i do think we, are in the early stages of an escalation that could culminate

into a military conflict, either between the united states and iran.r israel and the issue here is iran argues that any new sanctions are a violation, and abrogation of the nuclear deal, and they have said on several occasions if the u.s. violates its end of the deal, may constitute its nuclear program. what we saw in the nuclear deal and historically, the few instances in which iran has backed down under pressure is when it is faced against significant, multilateral pressure. the trump administration, so ability shown limited to work well with allies. that the appears administration, which doesn't really have a coherent foreign

and is coupled with these emotional outbursts on twitter against not only countries like iran, but also american allies, i do think we get into a very dangerous as dilatory -- dangerous escalation, and israel's threshold for taking action against iran is lower than threshold. whereas the obama administration always prevented them from taking military action against iran, trump has so far been very indulgence of prime minister netanyahu. it may be whether the united states decides to take military action down the road or whether the u.s. would be willing to provide israel a green light to do so, we are certainly not there yet, but i think we have to seriously think about the risks of such an escalation. that theys it clear

cannot have the same impact they have had previously, that the sanctions will not, cannot, will not have the same force that the previous sanctions did? and therefore are doomed to fail? view, if younly my look at the sanctions, they are pretty narrow. they are against individual companies and individuals. the sanctions that brought iran to the table in the nuclear deal prevented it ron from banking around the world, prevented iran from delivering oil imports around the world, and so, it had a broad effect on the iranian economy. the sanctions will not. attitude,hat is the and how significant is it in the overall concept of trump foreign policy, the attitude towards iran and islamic -- what they call radical islam and terrorism? if they see this clash of civilizations coming, is that a

principal part of how trump and his colleagues, the president and his colleagues in the national security arena, see the world shaping up? karuim? it may berlie, difficult to talk about a trump doctrine, but we can talk about abandoned doctrine, steve bannon doctrine. certainly if you look at his riding, his media interviews in the past, he does believe the threat of islamic radicalism is the greatest threat the united states currently faces, as communism was during the cold war. i think one of the mistakes, the strategic mistake they are making is gratuitously alienating people in the muslim world and islamic world, and in particular in iran. as you recall, this executive order that was passed last week. it turned away thousands of are legitimate visa holders, iranian

green card holders. there's a very prominent iranian the unitedmmunity in states that is thriving and they have close ties with people in the iran. in the past u.s. administrations, including the bush administration, the george w. bush administration, they always tried to distinguish between the irani and regime -- the iranian regime and the iranian people, who are thought to be the most pro-american, modern population in today's middle east. i think the trip administration is making a strategic mistake by lumping both the people and the regimes of the middle east, of the islamic world into one category, and i do fear they are going to strengthen islamic radicalism rather than reduce it. charlie: david, i would love to have you comment on this. is idea that most of what

conceived to be isil and other aspects, al qaeda, is mostly sunni muslim, rather than shia, theh is the iranians, and iranian spokesman give this rejoinder, saying it is a shame that the u.s. government rather than thanking the arena nation for their fight against terrorism keeps adopting unwise policies that are helping radical groups. the irani and some said that they are opposed to isil and other sunni groups. david: i think you've got to contradictions in trump foreign policy so far. number one, while mr. trump talks a lot about terrorism, and most of that, of course, is sunni-based, he tweets and occasionally comments on iran's influence in iraq and, of course, its role in syria.

on the other hand, by talking about cooperating with the russians in syria, he is implicitly talking about having to cooperate with iran, which is always leave working with the russians pretty closely. there's a second contradiction, and i think it goes back to your karim, andstion to karim, that is in the interviews we did with then-candidate trump last year, there was none of the clash of civilizations discussion. there was no talk about the united states battling for influence in the middle east or battlingnians theinfluence in asia with chinese. that is bannon. the trump doctrine has been much more we will pull back behind our borders and strike back if anyone strikes to us. no one has sorted out that contradiction in this white house. it is early yet. we don't know whether the forces

of confrontation represented by mr. bannon or the forces of let's call missed down and try to manage it, which we assumed to be the argument that rex will make as secretary of state, that jim mattis as secretary of defense will make, we don't know which one of those will win. charlie: david, i know you have another appointment. thank you for being with us. david: great to be with you, charlie. im, one last question for you. when you look at this in terms of iran versus its own struggle for influence in the region, does it have any impact on that contest? karim: absolutely. i think what the trump administration is keen on doing is resetting relations with america's traditional allies in the middle east, namely israel and saudi arabia, which means confronting iran and iran's proxies in the region, whether

that is syria, yemen, iraqi, lebanon, and elsewhere. so, among the countries in the world which are quite pleased by the trump administration are the gulf arab countries like saudi arabia and the uae. undereel that, whereas obama, he was evenhanded toward iran, the trump administration who america's real allies in the region are. the chances of really reaching a resolution in a place like syria are made infinitely smaller if you don't have any quiet operation from iran, because iran is the chief backer of push al-assad.ad -- bashar i don't think it bodes well for regional security to take a more antagonistic posture towards iran. that said, the obama administration tried hard for

eight years to have a more corporative relationship with iran, and that was not tremendously successful either. striking that right balance is very difficult, and ultimately, a lot of these conflicts are conflicts that simply have to be managed and contained and not really resolvable. im, think so much for joining us. karim: thank you. charlie: we will be right back. ♪

charlie: james baldwin was one of the most celebrated documentary of between a century. uses not your negro" baldwin's writings. it is called a mesmerizing cinematic experience. "i am not your negro" was nominated for an oscar. here is the film's trailer. >> when a black man says give me liberty or give me death, he is judged a criminal and treated like one and every thing possible is done to make an example so there will be no more like him. inthe story of the negro america is the story of america.

it is not a pretty story. ♪ >> it's really not the question. and ignorance. you don't know what is happening on the other side of the world. >> in america -- >> i was free only in battle. never free to rest. anye need to take action, kind of action, by whatever means necessary. to kill us allng off. [gunfire] ♪ >> there are days when you wonder what your role is in this country and what your future is in it? pessimist because i am black. the white population of this ,ountry has got to ask itself

why is it necessary -- [indiscernible] and you will find out why. charlie: i am pleased to have director ralpoul peck at this country for the first time. welcome. i did this begin? i readit began when james baldwin for the first time. suddenly i had an author through which i could understand where i was, who i was, and it gave me an explanation to a lot of things that i was seeing, could not put a name on them. and since that time, i read all

of baldwin, and he has been a constant presence in my life. 10 years ago, i decided to make the film, because i felt world around me was changing. afterw we got lazy, and the end of the civil rights avement, you know -- we have monument, black history month, martin luther king day, as if everything was now perfect, and the new generation started to come out. and i felt it was time that the words of james baldwin had to come back on the front line. charlie: had there been no major film about him? raoul: there was one film, which was more of a biography. i did not want to make a biographic film. i wanted to find a way to put the words themselves, and to put

baltimore himself, face to the audience, that we could he confronted with his words, like many in his generation were when he was the great spokesman that he was at the time. charlie: how did james baldwin become james baldwin? long story, it's a but i think he was a man who hisys knew how to use private, most intimate experience and link to his incredible knowledge -- self-taught knowledge -- and use it to translate in his riding. -- in his writing. and that is why he always ring very truthful. make a: you decided to documentary. you got samuel jackson to do the narration. give me a sense of the kind of film you felt like you had to make. in fact, when i started the research, when i started to come back to all of

these books i have read throughout my life, i did not know exactly what film, what the film was going to be. i play around with a narrative approach and then with a mixed form. it took me four years to really then come up on those pages, about this book that he never wrote with the title "remember this house." me those pages were given to by james baldwin's younger sister, who was running the estate. for the filmmaker to discover the notes to a manuscript, and the manuscript for the book was never written, and so it was like a mystery book. and then i got my angle. it means i was going to look throughout baldwin's work, body of work, and find that unwritten book, and that was the whole idea of the film. charlie: find the unwritten book

and make it a film. raoul: exactly. charlie: baldwin said, "not everything that is faced can be changed, but nothing can be changed until it is faced." raoul: absolutely. absolutely. that is something that unfortunately -- the kind of separation we have in this country is touch that each one of us can live through his whole life without having to see the others. you know? we have -- if you live in manhattan, you can live your daily life without being confronted with what is happening in the rest of the country. in particular, the last 30 years -- charlie: we're beginning to realize some parts of the country see other parts with a very different view. exactly. exactly. we are confronted with this, true. baldwin tries to confront us with this reality and give us

our responsibility back. because what he means by that is, you know, we are all responsible. where ever we stand in that , and only we, the people, can change it if we except to face it. charlie: he wanted to be an observer, a witness, rather than a participant? raoul: he was both. in order to be a witness, you have to be where it is happening. but he was torn between the sort of peaceful atmosphere that a write and theo incredible activity that you have when you're on the field. he was always torn between those two moments. but he felt that he had to be where it was happening in order to report about it. in order to understand what was going on. to sit to great lengths

down with those young boys and girls who were going in the schools, spending the whole day alone inside those schools. with the whiteme teacher and try to understand what was going through his head. and he gave us that in the form of a beautiful essay. in those what he knew how to do because he could understand the very core of this country. because he went through and he tells you the story through human experience. devicet an intellectual or intellectual discourse. it's always about human beings and emotions. charlie: take a look at this. this is james baldwin talking about the effect of segregation in the united states from the film. baldwin: the white man

has rarely if ever came to my kitchen. we were segregated from the schoolhouse door. therefore, he doesn't know. he really does not know what it was like for me in my house. he does not know how negros live. and it comes as a great surprise to the kennedy brothers and every body else in the country. mostertain, again, like white americans i encounter, there is no -- nothing against negros. that's really not the question. the question is really after the enablers, which is the price we pay for segregation. that's what segregation means be reviewed on know what is happening on the other side of the wall because you don't want to know. without realizing it, the great black hole of the great what father. i was not a racist, or so i thought.

are using that example, him, in the tape or film, and just his words. you are not using commentary, other people talking about james baldwin. well, that was the project from the start. i do not want to have any talking heads, as we call it, explaining or interpreting baldwin. i wanted to have baldwin's words, because in this film, only baldwin's words. there is not a single line that i wrote. charlie: and the reason is? raoul: to have that experience with having baldwin raw. to be in the audience front of the words, in front of this man's face, who is so personal, so intimate. i wanted to share this experience that i had throughout my life. the qualityt was

about his voice and his life that made him so penetrating to those who knew him? it was anhink incredible humanism, because he loved human beings, whether you were black or white. he wanted to have a direct contact with you. he did not ask you about your color first. he wanted to know what you have in your belly or your guts, who ,re you, so he was always open in his traveling, abroad. he spent time in france, but he also spent a lot of time in turkey. would findn-american in turkey -- but he had great friends there. charlie: did it give you a perspective on him? me,l: yes, it did help because i left haiti when i was eight. work in congo,to and changing from your birthplace to another country or

even another continent gives you a very different perspective to when you look back home or when you look back to a country like the usa, which i also came, you know, when i was 12, and i went to school here for a year. it gives you the distance that you need, you know, to really see what is important and what -- less important, and i have a lot of american friends who actually understood what being an american is once they were a broad, the, sadly, even somebody like old when, when he went to france, he was not black first. he was first an american, then black. --it gives you, as you said also, it takes away a lot of the daily pressure that you can have in your daily confrontation or

your, you know, the attention that you have to have every minute when you are living between harlem and the village, as he did. charlie: here is another clip in which he is talking about white america and the negro miss. plays]clip >> the truth is, this country does not know what to do with the black population, like the final solution. >> negroes have never been what white americans wanted them to be. that was a myth. we were trying to keep alive. we were trying to survive. no happiness in this place. ♪

,ne of the most terrible things i am an american. my school really was the streets of new york city. george washington and john wayne. , and you arehild theed by what you see and choices you have to make and what you discover it means to be black in new york. [video clip ends] he was 65 467. he had cancer, and he died in his house in the south of france. charlie: what would he have said was his primary contribution? know. i do not i think it is a man that was never satisfied. a lot always writing on of different things, you know,

, you know, a novel, essays , short stories. he was a multitasked person. on the same table, there was always a file on which he was anding, and he would leave come back, and sometimes he would mix two manuscripts and go into a different direction. in fact, in my research, because i was looking for a specific phrase, and i could find that same phrase differently in another document but that was better for the film, for the dialogue of the film, so i would use it, so i learned to see how his constructions were died and over a long period of time. a lot of writers work like that. they always reused a lot of , and i worked to find the

right place to put it. who were his close friends in the white literary community? knew most of them, like truman capote, but others, like marlon brando was a good friend, and he knew them when they were not famous, and marlon used to visit baldwin and just crashed in his bedroom for two days because he wanted to be away from the hollywood circus, so he had great friends, black in the artists. a lot of musicians, and there was, by the way, a great sense of solidarity among black artists and musicians. they knew each other. he had been a great elder for someone like simone and maya angelou.

he felt responsibility for them. even the younger, more radical leadership, people like davis. inwrote a beautiful essay prison, and some of the leadership in the black panthers were somehow critical of him, but he kept close to them. like the elder, the older brother that he was. he raised money for them. he visited them in prison, so he had a role, and many other people like harry belafonte, they were very careful and protective of the younger generation. charlie: do you see something of his voice in -- yes, he is a young writer and very promising, and i think he is -- i would call him a son ,f baldwin, like toni morrison as well. they always say how baldwin was

important for her to become a i think, webaldwin, do not understand an off of how baldwin is one of the greatest american writers of this century -- we do not understand enough how baldwin is one of the greatest american writers of this century. at a time when nobody else would writing a novel about a mixed gay couple. that was unprecedented. well,a black author, as many,as -- so he opened many doors, and he changed the life of many, many young men and women, both white and black, and not only in this country but elsewhere, and he changed my life, as well. thank you for being here. raoul: thank you. charlie: "i am not your negro"

is nominated for best documentary feature. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

♪ is one ofarry benson the most acclaimed photographers of his time. he has covered such iconic moments as the beatles arrival in the united states, the assassination of robert f. kennedy, and the funeral of dr. martin luther king, junior. has also photographed

every single president since jfk and has been one of the most sought after photographer for decades. his remarkable career. .ere is the trailer of the film >> i love harry benson. about halfm probably a month from being in love with -- benson.n peary >> i think it is rare that you know in a moment that a moment is going to be legendary. >> there is also a hairy's range andarry's range versatility. >> people think the beatles. the images of the beatles, the intimacy. >> benson was there with the

ultimate subject, the media centricity. >> what he is attracted to. tohe allowed harry photograph him for days. take a look at the picture. at ease, andople you can see that in his work. >> some great photographers, i'd like to think, had a camera all of the time, and they just got to photograph it. >> i think that is true. >> i photograph what i see, and what i see should inform. >> the first shot i saw was harry's shot. x you realize this is something that you have to document. >> you realize this is something that you have to document. >> he loves to photograph people.

>> the green handkerchief. >> he is the guy you would try to be. has a special sense of compassion for the people he is photographing. get the joke about life, and i think he finds that in his objects so often. -- his subjects so often. >> you can talk about that forever. i am pleased to have harry benson and the codirector at the table, both. so how have you done it? harry: i am old. if that makes a difference, but look at that, look at that. you have been there, and you captured the image. i would like to go over

again and do the same things. but why you? why photography? outy: photography was a way , and if you keep taking a good photograph, you eventually become heavyweight champion of the world. meaning if you work on a newspaper, you know right away that you failed, or you won the day. but is there one secret, one fundamental thing about the way you did it? harry: first in, last out. charlie: really? harry: yes, photograph what you see. charlie: what is the answer to that question "why harry?"?

knows how to get into a situation, and he knows how to charm people, but underneath that charm is a manipulation that is really a law in. charlie: to get them to relax? yes, and there are secrets to it. he will say he got to the second floor of the white house residence because he was in a suit, and every other photographer, they look like custodians, and he was able to .ide in he has a handkerchief. he is a seasoned charmer. charlie: you took my photograph. harry: i did. a few times. that is remarkable, because like michael jackson, when everyone took a photograph of him in the 1980's, he wanted to have a photograph by harry.

i wanted to make a film on harry -actually, he was the subject of another film we were making, company," and he was sitting in front of us, and we were rolling camera, and you realize that this man is not a photographer but an iconic photographer, and you look over your shoulder, and there are the beatles having a pillow fight, and you think, forget tiffany. harry benson.ut and i am really happy that the first ended up in the movie. alilie: this is muhammad two of theatles, incredible celebrities -- harry: that is right. we went and did "the ed sullivan

tv, i hear this guy shouting and shouting on tv how he is the greatest, and i thought it was the idea to bring the beatles. and john lennon said, no. he is going to get beaten by the other guy, sonny. ok, go to see him. and he said he did not want to meet him. beatles,ack to the cassius clay. charlie: he had not announced his -- harry: that is right, and he announced it right after the the line down,ad do this, do that, who is the most beautiful -- he completely -- after it was over, john

fool ofaid he made a us. he made us look like monkeys. he would not talk to me. thei did not care, because following day, i was going off in jamaica to photograph the in flemming, because the james bond movies, you know, no" and all of that, and the beatles -- covered the fight. charlie: sinatra and then-wife mia farrow. this is that truman capote's famous black and white ball. harry: someone shouted at frank sinatra. really upset. --he did not like it.

frankie batman. charlie: how many times did you photographs and not tro? sinatra?u photograph harry: a few times. on the stage with me. san jose, someplace. tell me how you made the film. over the course of about three years, and we basically look at the photography and the filing cabinets, and his wife is basically the curator and caretaker of everything, and she really helped to guide us along. thousands of images that we had to comb trhrough. a great photograph can ever happen again, and those moments, those moments you believe cannot happen again, like this, that will never take place again, it is a limp and gone forever. and gonea glimpse

forever, a quote he often has, and everyone from joe namath do donald trump to coral bernstein to dan rather. trump to coral bernstein.- karl it took about three years to work on this, and what was remarkable was the and willing to talk about someone other than himself, and he has had a great goingonship with harry back 20 years or 30 years. he has photographed in more than any other photographer, and he said after the interview, "anything for harry." it is a real friendship. harry: it is not politics. believe me. charlie: i believe you. but there is also yvonne ivanka trump,

in her trump tower office. harry: there are a lot. charlie: and then this one. i am looking at the portrait of george washington. she was famous, and that trumhe reason i put ivanka p in there. atrlie: the next one, look this. jeff kennedy in a ski mask. wow. jackiei like it because can hide -- charlie: you can see the picture and know that it is her. the eyes. kennedy ixt one is fo kennedy. ethel

it was one of those things, and it was so close to dallas. a news photographer. justin: and it is a testament to harry, because he is continuing to shoot. charlie: ok, i want to get through this. the next is a woman holding a child. a kkk member. harry: that was south carolina. charlie: how did you get there? -- and heent there took me, and he told me, saying i will be leaving around 9:00, harry. i think you should leave with me, meaning it was not safe. charlie: got you. take a look at the ira. i was on maneuvers with

them. it was getting dark. and there were lights going off obviouslyd that was -- they were telling us of the patrol around. charlie: you could see the lights, people signaling. harry: people signaling. we would lie in the mud. a british patrol would come past, and afterwards, i would and a couple of ira guys would say they did not win to get into a firefight. next one is jfk in paris in 1962, and look at the eyes. this is when he went to meet -- khrushchev.

like that he kept looking at me and looking at me until i climbed up on this parapet. it was like, you know, you get a picture, you know? this, winstonly, churchill in 1960, going back to his alma mater. harry: there was a new line in the school song which went "and win aill's name shall claim for each new generation," and that was the last time he went back to his old school. charlie: very important. justin: invaluable, and he constantly says if you marry the right person, he was -- she let

him go on these assignments. there are a lot who would say was off on assignment around holidays and birthdays, and, you know, he was chasing something very singular and something he was determined to do, and he is not a renaissance man. he is a great photographer who had a 60-year career, and i hope we captured it in the 90 minutes we had, and i thank you for letting us do that. thank you. harry: thank you for letting me show the pictures on your show. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

♪ ankle: a court hearing set for tuesday on donald trump's travel ban, some saying it is new to protect americans, and scaring away foreign investors. an update on foreign reserves. toyota expects profits to shrink by a quarter this year, even before it navigate trump's border tax, and actually live for a rate hike. this is the second hour of