♪ from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." evening. i'm filling in for charlie rose. while the country remains divided on the new administration, we can all agree that president donald trump is like no other before him. many of us laypeople keep up with the news daily, but it becomes increasingly difficult to separate fact from spin and parse out what his policies really mean for the country and world at large. joining me to discuss the impact of donald's presidency are maggie haberman of "the new york times" and cnn, keith oberman, and republican strategist ed

rollins. i am pleased to have them at this table. what do we think? what's happening? what happened in the last 4 1/2 minutes? seconds would be a better way to put it. since we enter the studio we've had one adviser to the president go on television and say his national security adviser is safe, and i've heard from others saying that might not be so. i am pleased to have them at this table. you can take that instance of uncertainty and apply it to almost anything in this presidency, because you have a divided cap constantly. that is how trump manages straight you see this play out, and it's almost any matter, staffing choices big and small, matters of national security, matters of how they are going to lay out there week on policy. it's very, very hard to keep up with. >> i feel like he runs the country like he ran "the apprentice." the premise of "the apprentice" was two teams, then he would

have his cue -- two kids follow around the team straight he would say, evocative, how did meatloaf do? now he is saying ivanka,, how did north korea do? maggie: it's unusual. what we had happened today were these pictures emerge from the weekend at mar-a-lago, who there wasa guest who joined who taking pictures of the president sitting at a patio dining table. i've been to mar-a-lago. it's very open air. he usually is right there with a bunch of guests. he is there, someone has an iphone flashlight on and they are going over documents after this north korea missile test in the middle of the dining area. it is sort of shocking to see. this was a problem when he said, i have nothing to do with my business. this is a privately owned company by his business. >> isn't there supposed to be someone with him who says, let's talk about this in the other room? how come that doesn't happen? he doesn't have the kind of

relationship with anybody who can basically say, mr. present, you do exactly that. when you come into the game, traditionally, you have been through a process. you have a governor or senator or congressman, and you have a team around you who knows you. everyone of those people that are principles here were not there three or four months ago. they have all become celebrities, "time" magazine covers, "snl," but they were not national figures in the middle of the year. when i was in reagan's white house, we had 20 or 30 people who had been in the same positions in the nixon or foreign white house. -- ford white house. this is a brand-new game. i don't think with the possible exception of bannon, he doesn't see anybody as a peer. at the end of the day if there's no peer, he's not used to having somebody say, come over here and we will do it this way. so you have this scenario that maggie pointed out, in

which -- they are understaffed, clearly, and as ed pointed out in terms of experience -- those who are there are just jockeying for position while the world sort of operates itself without united states interference. the administration has been dedicated to these broad, large scale domestic policies which they had tried to affect with the muslim ban and the ice raids which began over the weekend. where we fit in a world that is not waiting for donald trump to make up his mind about these other things goes to hell in a handbasket, at least theoretically. the focus of the administration seems to be who's going to be that principle just described, who's going to be the adult that he listens to. so even the half focus on the rest of the world is itself divided in half again. it's madness. >> the other thing i find

amazing, he elected to a 4-year term. we are now in our 22nd day. you are all exhausted, i'm exhausted. the staff has to be buried. he's had venerable heads of state. he has all these initiatives he's trying, supreme court justices, and it all gets lost in the cycle. supreme courtnted justice should have been the story of the week. here's one of the most important things i promise to the campaign, unanimous among conservatives, the support for him, and by the weekend you are talking about immigration issues. maggie: he's undermining himself. the opposition to him is also scattered and it's pretty diffused. democrats are fairly leaderless right now. he does something like nominated judge gorsuch, which gave him a fair amount of credibility, that he finds no way to sustain it

because he undermines himself every couple of days. he doesn't have anybody he considers an adult who is able to say to him, do this. >> he never has his entire life, really. maggie: he's had people who were willing to push back on him to an extent. there are two things at play here. as though he has languished the critics and they ought to be praising him and he doesn't understand why they are not. we are being honest, this is not somebody who thought he would win. he did not spend a whole lot of time thinking about what he would do with the presidency, and i think he doesn't fully understand what it means yet. >> it's a lot of work. in the white house and the one thing people don't talk about, it's a massive amount of work. we would always hear about obama being up for hours, reading in d briefing books. today they were talking about how when they brief him, it's one page, bullet points with a lot of graphics. you, knowingcern

those things? >> there's a lot that concerns me. i'm an american and i know what's going on. he's a very unique president. >> can you do it that way? my sense is -- one of the reasons -- the potential is there, if he gets the thing focused on 3 or 4 big decisions a day. decisions are made in the cabinet. he doesn't have his cabinet in place yet. the decisions come in, they are reasons -- the potential is there, if he gets the thing focused on 3 orstaffed out, youe ability to make a decision, you sit down and listen to the arguments and make the decision. but if you can't make decisions and you basically are rushed -- my argument at this point in time would be, whoever is scheduling him as overscheduling him. there is too much activity going on. it's -- too.e: netanyahu this week >> these are heavy duty things you should be prepared for, you should have 48 hours. people come in and talk to you. if you don't like to read, which

apparently he doesn't, you have people come in and talk to you. and then he so overreacts to the media. the media is not his enemy. are hiscrats opposition. the media are someone who will tell a story, and it will be their story. one, theystart on day are the bad guys, because they are not the bad guys. he may not like what they always write, but at the end of the day the key thing here is, if she's going to write a story, my job is to make sure that my pet of the story is in there and nothing she writes is incorrect. maggie: this is where i think his staff is not serving him well, in the sense that his staff knows this is how he is. they know he's going to lose his cool over certain types of stories. sean spicer goes out and he goes to the podium and barks at the press in the briefing room and acts as though this is trump tower. you need to have some wink and spicer andare sean

say to the reporters, if you are calling them off the record or injecting humor into this, don't carry the exact same message as the president because you are not really advancing him in that way. they are all basically the talk shows, every west wing official who goes on any show, they are performing for an audience as one now, and it's just trump and that is not what we have seen, and previous -- in previous white houses. >> that seems to be his point, to have everyone rattled. i had an agent wants and he asked for 10 times more money than i deserved and i said, you will get 40% more money. it seems this is how he thinks you deal with the world, you try to scare everybody and end up somewhere else. i don't know that every country understands the approach. >> they don't know what they are doing with the television show that is running the country. your point is exactly right and it explains everything, including ed's point, about, we have time in human history.

we have time because otherwise everything would happen at once. who is the president apparently working in his 60 minute format of a tv show. you put all these things together. 're going to the board room to please this man and he cannot separate the idea of the presidency from the role he had thehis television show, and one i imagine, maybe this would get through. if there was something to say to him, you know the ratings on your television show in that overt declined steadily the course down to the point at the end where you were the 85th or 86 most popular show, you need to have somebody come in and rework the format. there has to be some way to get through. as historically fascinating as living in this moment is, you can also say, you know the cuban missile crisis in 1962 was historically fascinating. i would not have wanted to be more than three years old during the cuban missile crisis.

i don't want to live through this. we have to steer him either out of the office, or out of this way of running the office. these are the two choices we have is a country at this point. >> why is the russian hacking story and the michael flynn story important? maggie: the russian hacking story is important because this is a foreign agent that has been an adversary that has had in an impact of some kind on the election. i'm not going to say it was determinative. trump talked about wikileaks from the podium every day. the obama white house was uncertain how to handle this. it was an open question about what trump would do with these sanctions, if michael flynn was indeed telling a russian counterpart, just wait until we are in office. that is deeply problematic. that on its own is problematic. then you have flynn, who appears

to have acknowledged that he misled the vice president, and possibly the president. he has apologized to the vice president, who went out and defended him. >> why is he making that call? doesn't he have to be making that call because donald trump tells him to make that call? doesn't he go off on his own and tell russia? >> flynn has been a freelancer for a period of time. knewof the reason, if we like putin, like the rest of us have felt about putin, putin is a bad guy who committed that acts, and you place putin with khomeini and say, i really love khomeini and like goodhave relationships with him -- but putin is a dangerous man, isrybody knows he basically playing lots of games with the world -- and so the fact that trump was to love this guy i think bothers a lot of people.

>> it should,, though, shouldn't it? >> it should. the reality is if it doesn't, we have a lot to learn to get into a fight with the canadians and mexicans and australians who have been our friends and allies, and people who have not been our friends and allies to try to have a -- with, is absurd. maggie: there has been an effort to try to suggest that trump is somehow influenced by russia. we don't know why he is saying this stuff. he has"playboy" where he said tf raising authoritarians. in 1990 he gave an interview to the chinese it handled well the tiananmen square massacre. >> it feels like he had a really tough dad, and now he loves these brutal people. he wants to be putin, in some way. except in one way, i don't think

he will ever ride a horse with his shirt off. maggie: the picture of his father is the only picture he has in the oval office. he has it right on the credenza, right behind the resolute desk he sits at. there is some psychology there. >> the hero question, they asked the president if he had a hero, he began to extol his father, and then paused and went, he sold houses and build houses in queens and the bronx. he had to separate himself from his father as if that were not good enough. if you're going to try to cycle out, analyze this president -- i hope you have a long time, and a whole team to work on it, because this is the most complex president. >> if you have several hundred million dollars, massive tax breaks, when you take this job -- and you don't really need it -- and you are an older man, what is the reason why this --

inis one of the biggest jobs the world. you get to travel the world, it's fascinating. you don't have to worry about making money. he's going to have very prestigious, and his obituary won't read he was chairman of exxon mobil, it will read secretary of state. maggie: i don't think -- i wouldn't take any of these jobs. and if it with tillerson, think you see it with kelly, you do see people who feel a sense of patriotism, and they see this is a president who has no government experience surrounded by a tiny team that is essentially divided, he only trusts his family, if that, and they feel like they want to try to steer the ship. the cabinet is not fully in place yet. to be fair, we don't know how much authority they will have because he saw kelly gets steamrolled to some extent, anyway, on immigration and tillerson on the immigration order. you've seen trump overruled

tillerson on who he wanted as his number two at the state department. you saw something similar with matters. -- mattis. you have people who went in with a real sense of duty and honor, and i think they are being a bit frustrated. ♪ you have people who went in with a real sense of

host: and what about the fact

that his family is so involved in the administration, so when they say his closest confidant is ivanka, what does that mean to you? >> it would mean a lot more to me if they were here in new york, because then he would listen to them. when you are there every day, it's like his son-in-law. son-in-law, who he has great confidence in, said i'm coming down friday, let's have lunch and i will give you my opinion, as opposed to being in every meeting in which he looks like a young man among not so young men, and i think to a certain extent -- a president is entitled to whoever he wants to advise him, and he can go outside the administration, be inside the administration. i hope there's more people. the problem at this point in time if you don't have clear-cut lines of authority. you have a bunch of type a personalities, typical of a white house. when i was the white house political director, i could go say, it'sanytime, and

politics straight president sometimes would push back and say, you did not come here to do this for politics. fighting,are people pushing, shoving, trying to get through all. cap weinberger said to me one the he said, the next time president asks me about politics, you can give him an answer on defense. you need very clear lines of authority, and this administration, no clear lines of authority. maggie: an important point, if ivanka was here in new york -- this is a president who's always selling. not as president, but in life donald trump has been about closing the deal. the times he has been most interested in talking to me is what he thought he was trying -- going to sell me on some version of himself. i remember his quick story about this, one of his aides called me in may of 2015 and said, he will declare on june 16 and we want you to write about it. i said, no. i'm not doing this again. i did this with him in 2011.

he didn't actually run. i had lunch with him. he was sitting here, his campaign manager was sitting here. and he was trying to sell me on the idea that he really was going to do this, and he was clearly getting frustrated that i wasn't biting. i obviously was wrong, clearly should have written about it, that i had a good reason not to. i think it's the same thing with tillerson. the reason he was interested in tillerson, it was someone who wasn't interested in him for a long time, someone higher than he was. if his daughter wasn't here, if his son-in-law -- if they were here, he would be reaching out to get the input. this is something that has played out with him repeatedly in his life. >> i think the three young adults who are his advisers, his kids, are smart kids. maggie: and they are. >> i think they give him the best counsel they can, with limited experience relative to government or what have you. my concern at this point in

time, you slow this thing down a little bit and you basically say, the stupid 100-day thing out of fdr was a different time, different environment. the idea that you have to get everything done in 30 days -- it wasn't a 30 day term, it's a four-year term. to have an infrastructure plan, a tax plan. the idea that i'm raising the expectation to get it all done right now, at the same time he's fighting over the election, they stole new hampshire from a, which is all absurd. >> what does that mean? andrew sullivan was writing about how he thinks we should be concerned about his lack of stability. you've done some commentary about this. when somebody says there are 3 million illegal votes and is no evidence of that, and is a lot of misinformation coming from them or lies coming from him, what do we make of that -- is that a strategy? is it delusional? what is that? >> we can hunt for the meaning

behind it. we can psychoanalyze him for 1000 years. what's right in front of us is the pattern that it represents to something important. if the president wants to believe there were 3 million illegal voters bussed for massachusetts to cost kelly ayotte her seat in the senate, fine. it doesn't really have any meaning except as template. then somebody could say to him, look, the real problem in asia is not north korea. we can deal with north korea. it is south korea. we have to come down hard on the south koreans because they have a corrupt government, or whatever the argument is, or the australians are behind all this trouble. what happens when he believes something as farcical and fabricated as that, something of importance? that's why it's relevant as a warning to real-life issues. >> each time he says something that's not true -- do you think when they are having meetings at they know it's,

not true and they are basically setting the table for more voter suppression, or setting the table for more mass incarceration? they know it's not true and they are basically setting theit feels like it's at feels very planned. you say fake news is really in times and a certain amount of the population believes nothing. >> i don't think there's a plan. the truth of the matter, i work for nixon, reagan, ford. reagan spent 30 years developing a philosophy. he started off as an fdr liberal. by the time he became president, he had a philosophy. he had positions adopted from people like kemp. he knew the strong national defense was very important trade he had an agenda when he got there, and he got most of it accomplished. i don't see an agenda there. basically keep the illegals out, protect the country, make america great again. and so my sense is he went out and sold a bunch of guys and some women who didn't live up to not middletations,

class and they thought they were going to be and can't take care of their kids and america is not what they trumped it would be, sold them that something was wrong. this always a tough time getting a third term. was not as, she strong candidate. i think at this point in time, he needs to say, i'm going to just these are for five things i will get done this year. if i make the business economy better, if i get corporate taxes 15% and don't do anything else, that will stimulate the economy. if i can change dodd-frank, i'm going to fix the economy. fixing obamacare is a massive problem. >> dodd-frank, doesn't that put us at risk of having the same problems as 2008. >> i don't think so. the problem with dodd-frank is it has become a bureaucracy for accountants and lawyers and costs an enormous amount of money.

you have to make banks lend money again and whatever that takes is what we have to do. someone said to me -- why does the stock market keep going up? he said, if you can borrow money at 1%, you can make money too. but nobody gets to borrow morning -- money at 1%. you have to stimulate small business. they need to be able to have the ability to get money, have better planning, lower taxes, and business taxes. >> how do you feel about the potential gutting of the consumer protection bureau? this is something that elizabeth it savedrked on, and the people hundreds of millions of dollars from getting ripped off by the banks, and it seems like it's a giant target. what is your opinion about the intention to do that? maggie: i think there's a big gap between either when he says

or what he does with executive orders, which if we are being honest, his press releases on steroids, and what actually happens. i think he is at risk of getting fromur point, a bit afield what got him elected. he literally said jobs and the economy a million times in every speech, and that really resonated with people. his first week in or what he does with executive orders, which if office -- his first few days in office were focused on trade, and renegotiating. they were focused on things that voters who might be concerned about the gutting of the elizabeth warren's main achievement in this regard would be affected by an care about. so i think that might halt this. the thing we haven't talked about is how he has stopped the white house and his cabinet with photographs, and that is completely at odds with what he ran on. that has not gotten that much attention because there is so much focus on everything else, but that is a real risk to him too. heno one will notice when

runs for reelection that there are so minute people from goldman sachs inside the administration? selle: he's not trying to anybody. he really isn't trying to steamroll. but what they did throughout the he did send out a million different tweaks, comments, controversies. it would take up so much dust that nothing really stuck. he did send out a million different tweaks, comments, controversies. i think there is a part of him that believes it will matter. he did something that i've literally never seen any elected official do, which has openly said, the day he was sworn in he started talking about 2020. i've never seen that. they all are always running for reelection. and so that was really striking. we didn't think about it. march of 1983 when reagan asked me to run his reelection campaign, and prior to that, what about midterm elections, house seats and what have you. the moment you start focusing on yourself, is how senators will walk all over you.

the real fights that are coming is, there's no spending restraint whatsoever. every single thing they are talking about is gigantic. you have republicans who don't want to spend more without tax cuts, offsetting that. all the stuff is going to cost gigantic sums of money and unless you start focusing on some of that, he will have a real battle. maggie: he hasn't done a budget yet. >> you say the focus on himself, that's the danger of being in that office, but that's him. his focus is him. how honors do we have a government if we have somebody who's more focused on himself and perhaps the rest of the citizenry combined? --what i want to do with him i know all the presidents. i said, the president who knew more about presidencies than any president prior was bill clinton. you do need to know about the constitution, you need to know the role of the judicial system.

you do need to know the role -- if you once to get bogged down with justices and appeals courts and what have you -- >> do you think we should be nervous right now, or is this blown out of proportion? and mya trump supporter, concerns, having been around a -- it's notd not like i want that. i just want what's good for the country. have a 21-year-old daughter and i want the country to be good and effective. the next 4 years will be important. what i want him to do is some healing. we are so partisan lee split, and the ugliness out there among everybody -- we go to a dinner party in new york and you fight with people. impeached in six months. others say, as they conversation we all have. they are sitting there, saying, analyzing who they will be 4 years from now as opposed to saying, thank you, lord, for giving me 4 years. i want to rebuild the infrastructure, i want to get

people back to work, i want people to feel good about themselves. and what to put our place in the world to where our military is equipped. we need some real clear planning, and i don't see any of that. >> why doesn't he make any gesture to all the people who voted for hillary, so there's almost 3 million people who voted for her more than him. an advantageot see to saying, i'm going to do something about student loans, about all this debt, all these hundreds of thousands or millions of kids have? why is there no gesture? maggie: this is not going to be a sufficient explanation, but it is what i think it is. in this way, he's very much not a politician. he genuinely does not see the political advantage to doing certain things. he's viewing this, for lack of a better term, as a personal wound. these people do not vote for me, i'm angry they did not vote for

me, i have to invalidate this in some way. he's just not pass that. i don't know when he will get past that. he is working hard. he's overwhelmed in a lot of ways by what the presidency is. i think he has, for whatever reason -- i think in some ways the path was easier for him, the campaign was easier, there was a tactical reason for continuing to talk about his crowds, but also an emotional reason to talk about his crowds. this is perhaps a kinder way of saying what you were saying. he doesn't see it, he doesn't see that other people either want to be reached out to buy their president. he believes and a lot of his is arters believe that he more exaggerated version of what president obama did in terms of partisan politics. a lot of people don't share that view, but i've heard it great i don't know that he won't get there, but i think he is a ways from it. >> thank you all for being here. thank you, charlie, for letting

you sit here. it was a great honor. didn't dishonor the table. thank you, everybody. ♪ table.

is arash" -- "nashville" new series. here is a look at the trailer.

>> my wife slept with somebody else. i caught her today. >> who is this? --?is my hand towel on your >> oh, boy. go write some jokes. >> i've literally never done anything without her. >> i have a plan. i will be a comedian. >> that's the stupidest thing i've ever heard. somebody trying to shake me from my corner. there's no good way to tell people you haven't seen "the wire." >> i'm going through a divorce straight i'm floating around. there is laundry downstairs. you will want to do that right away. >> hey, good morning, little fella. get on up here. >> standing on the corner, eating street food. set tonight at a

club in manhattan. >> following the dream, grinding it out. i'm happy to be with you guys. >> what's wrong with you? >> get over here. >> you want me to come on your podcast? >> i did not drink, i do not smoke, i did not have sex. low or is thise the high? ♪ >> i was trying to free you. >> let's do it. >> i'm doing ok, actually. >> celebrate. >> that's enough. is that a weird laugh? host: all right, with me right now is the creator and star, p holmes, andete costar, the great artie lange.

easy e. >>easy e. >> is not the guy you want to be. >> the first time someone on "charlie rosewinter hat. >> it's another step towards giving up completely. >> i always say the only time i noticed it is when i'm on "charlie rose" is wearing a ." there are cameras behind you. they see it. "stern"e, it was -- the show was believable. -- unbelievable. the handsomest panel that has been on "charlie rose" in a while. so, the new show, which premieres the very 19 on hbo, after "girls" -- pete, tell us about it.

pete: you and i got together, and we are excited about doing a show that is about being bad at comedy. we notice there were a lot of shows, obviously. this is a show that shows the secrets of what it's like starting. you saw the trailer, handing out flyers, sometimes you have to pay to go on. this is what you do for 5, 10 years. you are still finding your voice. ofis those origin stories really interest me. when i pitch you the show, you would have gotten back into seeing it yourself. it was very fortuitous for me. >> you were vulnerable, and i pounced. >> a lot of the show is also about spirituality and religion. why is that? >> i grew up religious. i was the kind of kid that if a grownup told me something, i believe them. i went to church. sinkery hook, line, and

got very deep into the evangelical scene. in real life i got married when i was 22. i could barely drink at my own wedding. to the first person i ever dated, first person i had ever slept with. >> i said slept with. >> that's pretty graphic for this hour. >> the only woman i took as a lover. [laughter] after six years of marriage, she left me for a small italian man named rocco. >> you always mention his name. >> this is a funny joke to me. i think the sense of humor of the universe is very funny, and the fact that i'm am this soft, gentle, golden retriever, stood up man, and she's with a muscular guy, tough guy -- i really liked him, actually. i thought he was a sweet guy. .his was not a revenge piece

>> i'm sorry, we have a lawsuit. >> the show is about someone who is religious entering the world of comedy in new york and encountering peole. -- people. your religion? >> i grew up roman catholic. i mother was into religion, my father was not. we would get up there. go to church for your mom, but there's nothing up there. he was a real articulate guy with stuff like that. i failed typing in 1981, in the eighth grade. charles impression the entire class, and that's where i failed. my father, was of legendary wisdom, said typing, that's for broad's. -- broads. [laughter] part of technology to me is falling behind in text.

you actually say yes to the wrong question. i don't want -- i don't hate your mother. whereeep doing this thing if i mad at someone and trying to complain to someone else, i write the emailed to the person i'm mad at. i'm so mad, i'm just like -- jeff. and then i send it to jeff. jeff is like, was this meant for me? then you have to act like it was. changes the whole dynamic of communicating. it's crazy. >> so, what do you think your role in the show is? >> i think changes the whole dyc of communicating. it's crazy. >> -- chris pete -- pe i got to tell -- you. about thes before charisma you have, you can't be born with this. i do want to help you.

and i have done this with other comics, and other comics did it with me. you bomb, and i see you bomb. it is really an emotional thing, which i relate to. is, i see him and i sort of engage with him at first. and then he grows on me. my role is, in a weird, perverted way to help this kid and show him the ropes a little bit. don't step on these landmines, in a rated r, edgy kind of way. >> it looks like he's trying to save your soul or save you in some way. >> eventually, you can see that's where this is going, and people have tried to. >> how do people do when they try? >> they succeed for a little while. and eventually they have to go to work. but i feel warmth from you, john.

you have too much success. it's a fun role-play, to be in the world of comedy, shoot at .he seller in those locations his character would try to help me, and you have already in the show. i think everyone in the show that is getting it is giving it. you see right from the beginning, he cares about comedy and making jokes way more than he does -- his wife actually abandoned first. you see that. helping me, but i'm helping him. you're cheating, we are helping. >> my character thought about that deeply. you justify her behavior because you cheated on her with comedy, and i can't even see that. >> the show is the result of a

lot of therapy, and trying to ofte a fictionalized version something that happened to you that was negative from the other persons perspective. we really wanted lawrence character to be sympathetic and understandable. when i watch it -- she's right. >> she's amazing. we are both lithuanian. >> a lot of the fun of the show is comedians hanging out with comedians, helping each other out. when you got divorced, comedians let you crash other places. what was that like for you real? >> in real life, when my wife told me she was leaving, the first person i called was nick kroll, john mullaney helped me get an office that had a coach in it that i would sleep on all the time. flew me out to the set

of a movie. when we talk about comedians, their backstabbing and we are all just out for ourselves -- that flew me out to the set can be true, i suppose. but there is this unlikely canopy that we represent on the show that i think is a real thing. put me up in a hotel, hung out with me every day. in a really dire time. >> i am front stabbing. [laughter] i've broken the ice. >> we have you, we have a towel on the show. guys, you think you have a certain association with them, and there really is a certain association with them, and there really is a beautiful heart to the community. my talk to somebody and find out they are a comedian, i instantly bond with him. >> you mentioned david cell. he's become my best friend. when you are best friends with somebody, you do see that warmer side and he's the only person -- i got pancreatitis a couple years ago and canceled a couple gigs. i got some moneys. gig, daveceled the

got worried about money and he came to the hospital with a check. i had done something similar to that. he said, we are flying. thank you so much. it shows respect to a few people. i can tell he's nervous around you, a little bit. i like that. [laughter] i like seeing that in him. >> you said the first comedian you saw when you went to the comedy cellar the first time was david tell. -- dave attell. >> he did a joke i was hoping was not an average joke you have to tell to be a comedian. goody in it. -- ioke was -- john denver was in sam goody the other day. a blank cassette cost $2.50.

a lot of people left at the $2.30. there's another great joke. managers to the because i was like, this guy is considered good, right? the greatest, limit i can give dave, -- complement i can give dave, i want to say i'm best friends with the greatest come dian. >> that camaraderie, especially with someone you respect, it think is funny to you and -- being a comedian, that's the biggest privilege. >> who are your favorite comedians of all time, of the ones you've been able to hang out with in your life? >> long time would be richard pryor. that the cliche. it's hard to beat him. i do think chris rock is the best comedian ever. is a combination of longevity and unique delivery and brilliant jokes and stories.

that first richard pryor said i talk about, it is him making tragedy comedy, and that is what has become of me. waslast tv show we ever did the norm show. i'm on the call sheet. i saved it, because he checked out about a year later. his people let him come out. he was cripple like this. he does a cold open. george carlin -- people i met, dave attell, brian regan, norma donald -- not just because i'm friends with him. before i met norm -- his delivery is unique, and i love it. >> a lot of comedy is taking pain and turning it into joy. that's what the show really is about. >> we are on the "charlie rose" show -- it's a love story to suffering. it's how something you never would have asked for is actually the mobilizing factor that gets

you where you want to go. >> do you think people who watch "charlie rose" will say, i want to what's the show because it talks about a mobilizing factor? -- watch this show because it talks about a mobilizing factor? >> that the universal story. it's a very funny show. one of the things i like, because of the comedians, it's always believable that we would be making jokes. people are always being very funny. there is something underneath. you and i were excited about the idea of a religious guy, sweet parts of his soul will be maintained and what will it be like when he starts playing with fire and different types of lifestyles? that is something people relate to. no matter what you are trying to do in your life, you can watch a guy go through a journey and go, oh, he had the suffering, now he's kicked out of the village and he's got to go back and change and adapt. i hope that is why people watch. >> in your career, you have done the same thing. your last special you did was all about your issues, your issues with addiction.

how is it to try to put that together and turn that part of your life into comedy? >> its therapeutic. to me, it brings closure to it. it's a great discovery, to have like, i can talk about this publicly and maybe get a laugh out of it. everything become self-deprecating. i think the audience -- it's a trick. let the audience think, here is a screw-up. i can feel like i'm better than this guy. that is something i go to too often, and i think it is something i got to work on. i was a heroin addiction. and i was. i use the word junkie because and that reminds you that you should not want to be that. -- indo a bit about rehab, they asked me to go trainer. he really told me once that he

thought a runner' shigh -- runner's high would be as good as heroin. it took a long time to go from what i just told you there -- riding on stage, a bit more i'm doing something so tragic and as soon as i say heroin -- we are not used to harsh words out of context. they hear the word heroin and there's nothing they can say that will come back to you. no, now you can't be funny anymore. it was a lot of hard work to get that funny, and i like that challenge and i'm proud of it. i wouldn't know how to do it any other way. i look for a tragic thing and it's not hard to find. >> we all have bad things happen to us. there is something very therapeutic about turning it into something that is funny. >> that's a great way to get over it. process it to anyway, and a lot of people do

it in 30 are with their friends, and we have the privilege of delight of other people. >> how come you weren't heroin addicts? [laughter] when -- he kept you on the straight and narrow. >> it had to do with my faith, a bit.e >> fear of hell? >> a friend of mine smoked pot in high school. friend f my head sex -- of mine bit. >> had sex in high school. it was like, hwo dare you. -- how dare you. >> if they are like, you are going to hell, i would be like -- >> you created hell in your mind. >> that's your problem. >> i think that was the problem. i think my father would want me to say he's looking up at me right now. >> you and i were talking about how it helps with, let's ride the lightning.

is nothing like fear. i'm afraid of the wrong things. i should embrace intimacy. commitment. 27 years old.v this was my dream. i said, i want to be on a sketch show as an original guy. tv was much mad bigger. it still lasted 14 years. trace everything back to mad tv. i did a lot of work. they released the best of my sketches. when i got that of 27 and i said, five years i will be 32, i can't do this. i really thought that. and i think subconsciously, 2 years out, i got arrested. maybe i really wanted that bad. don't do it.

>> that's the idea you and i were talking about, the idea that sometimes you create chaos as a way of avoiding the panic of doing something as a way of having control. >> how do you feel right now? the show is about to air. you might be the next sarah jessica parker. or the show could go away. >> it's like lighting a firework that has my daily face on it. he will either sale majestic into the sky and light it up in a beautiful way, or ricochet off a closed window and kill a rabbit. it's a very exciting time. >> a really great piece of work. both of you are hilarious in it. i'd like to thank you for being my guests on "charlie rose." >> this is a dream for me. i appreciate -- >> likewise. it's mutual. this is amazing, you kill it, i'm really excited to see people see artie come back to acting.

>> it's already good. i think the reaction is already good. >> what you brought to it is the real reason why the show works. yourshould be better in bread, i friend. you are a hero and mentor. >> i'm happy to have the chance to work with you guys because you are both so brave and honest about your lives and yourselves, and you really gave of yourselves. i think that's why this show is great, and it will be on february 19, 10:30 on hbo after "girls." also, we will be performing all of this together in los angeles on the 18th, at the regents theater for charity. we will also be at the herbs theater in san francisco, also for charity. real girl. >> real girl, which is a female empowerment program. >> thanks, everybody. >> thanks.

♪

to extendarkets set wall street's record run after janet yellen sees progress in the u.s. economy. softbank alternative management calling in a world-class platform. shows set to plunge further after a chaotic disclosure of a $6 billion write-down. china just can't kick its debt habit.