>> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: welcome to our broadcast. tonight, we spend the hour with a man who has already left his own unique mark on the face and history of new york city. if donald trump is not in the news, he may be in the gossip columns with his latest .elationship less than two years ago, the news was that the trump empire was in trouble, and some were quick to announce the king has lost his ground. prove them wrong and is currently writing his third book, "the art of the comeback." i am pleased to have him.

here is trump, the heart of the deal, and here he is surviving at the top. here is casino journal saying, "gaming's greatest comeback." is "new york" magazine out this week, fighting back, trump scrambles off the campus. bill clinton after the new hampshire primary went out front and had a press conference, and he said, even though he came in second, the comeback kid. look at what happened to bill clinton. if you can translate that to you, where would it be? where would it take you? what would be the equivalent of reaching the white house for you? mr. trump: i think just doing what i am doing. i have had a great street after the last year. the economy is in a deplorable condition. the politicians destroyed the economy in 1986.

. really got very lucky when i built the taj mahal, which everyone would said -- which everyone said would be his downfall, it turned out to be one of the best deals i have ever made. it made over $40 million a month . no casino in history has made anywhere near that. all three of my casinos were rated four stars. it has been an incredible period of six or seven months for me, and it has been gratifying. the comeback stories and everything else, i probably care less about that than i would have three or four euros ago, but it has been a good experience for me. mr. trump: how are you different from three or four years ago? i may like toeday lose everything for a period of time to see who is loyal and who is not. i found out a lot. charlie: did you find out?

.r. trump: you can't guess it you would think some people would be loyal no matter what, and it turns out they are not. you can't predict it. it's very difficult. charlie: what hurt the most? mr. trump: it is a different scene. you have a situation where you have everything going perfectly, and then you wake up at the world is coming to an end, from the standpoint of the economy. i have had a lot of luck. i have had a lot of good friends, and overall i have done really well with it. charlie: help me understand what it is to be you, and what happened. some people have not been able to come back, some developers in canada and the united states who had a magnificent reputation for quality and for the deal are still in bankruptcy, in fact. how hot did it get for you? what was it like for you before the crash, and how loaded again for you when things -- how low

did it get for you when things were starting to go bad, and people were counting you out? mr. trump: i never thought i was that far from bankruptcy, but a lot of people were giving me a hard time, and i think overall, charlie, it was an experience that i don't think i want to go through again, i have to tell you. you know what it is like. you are in a position where -- i think that if you had to do it again, i'm not sure you could. i went through a period of two years that was truly tough. charlie: in what way? mr. trump: you have parents, people that adore you, people that, for 15 years, nothing went wrong, and all of a sudden the world seems to be coming to an end. it was sort of an incredible experience to me. charlie: did you have to go to your father and say, bail me out, help me get through this crisis one more time? mr. trump: my father would not

have been in the position to bail me out, but he certainly helped. a federalister who is judge, and she is very, very strong. i never knew as to loyalty whether or not she would be there. she was there in spades. the incredible thing is you can't really tell who is going to be there and who is not. i would have bet my life on certain people. i would have said, politically speaking, that somebody you know, andrew stein, would have been there, and he was not. charlie: was not there for what? mr. trump: for 15 years, i supported andrew stein. i never asked him for a thing. until the very end when everyone else was on board, andrew was not there. i was surprised. ultimately, he was there, but it should not have been so

difficult. charlie: one of the things they you have you is that within you vindictiveness about that, and you are not going to forget that, and part of the trump style is that at some point you will try to get stein back. mr. trump: i don't know if i will get steinback. i am disappointed in other people, not disappointed in some. one guy would call me every day -- charlie: what did he say? mr. trump: keep fighting, keep fighting. he is phenomenal, a great leader. his parent company has done tremendously well. but alan has been a loyal friend, and i have had a lot of other loyal friends. i think i am going to go into this in the third book. i do one book, a bestseller, another book, it's a bestseller. frankly, i think this will be the best book because i believe

i know much more now than i knew for the other two. i have learned about hardship, something i really did not know. i went to the best school, did great. everything goes smooth, you get out of school, you make a lot of money, every deal works out. it was like a series of -- charlie: did you think you were invincible at that time? mr. trump: i never thought i was invincible, because i have seen too much. but i had a 15 year run that was virtually unprecedented. all of a sudden, 1990 hit. i remember there was an article, "welcome to the 1990's, donald." the economy w crashing, the banks were crashing, and everything was crashing. i learned a lot about myself and other people. charlie: what did you learn about yourself? mr. trump: i think i learned for real that i am a pretty tough

guy, because it really takes a tough guy -- it takes the brains and it takes this -- but it also takes toughness area to go through a period of turmoil where everything seems -- it takes toughness. to go through a period of turmoil where everything -- what greenberg said is that trump went from owning 100% of nothing to 50% of something making money. fair? mr. trump: i think that's what he said, and he said i am making a lot of money. charlie: that's right, he did say that. mr. trump: what turns out is the casinos have turned out to be tremendous. real estate in new york is starting to come back on a very slow basis. i think it is going to take a long time, but the casinos in particular have been fantastic. it has just worked out for me. it has not worked out for a lot of other people.

i think a lot of that has to do with inner strength, and that's what i will be writing back -- writing about. it also has to do with the loyalties of other people. maybe how to treat people so they are loyal. charlie: did split the family? did it cause division between you and your brother? mr. trump: i was a little disappointed in my brother. i thought he would fight harder than he did. in my the opposite sister, a really phenomenal lady, just tremendous. my other sister, likewise, was tremendous. my parents have always been what i expect them to be. one of my attorneys said always count on your mother. never appreciated my mother is much, but she was really fantastic. charlie: as was also said, you came out in defense of mike tyson. your mother said, enough, donald, shut up.

mr. trump: that is the first time my mother got angry. my mother was so crazy when i came out in defense of mike tyson. -- she'she reason tough, but she's quality. charlie: but she said what? mr. trump: she did not like the fact that i was defending iron mike, but i watched what happened with mike tyson. i watched how badly he was represented by an attorney that was charging $5 million against a local attorney, the best within 100 miles that the state hired, who just ate the other man's lunch. i watched the way he did it, and i heard about a girl who, late in the evening, knocked on his door, was taken in, was raped, perhaps, perhaps not. i don't know. i think he was badly represented . i did say, number one, she knocks late in the night, number two, she was dancing in a beauty

contest happily at 8:00 in the morning, and now mike tyson is in jail for cointreau or five or six years. i had a really problem with that case. i had a real problem with honking. don king.en to -- charlie: it is established that he raped her in the hotel. mr. trump: i don't know that it happened. as i said, if he did not testify, he would have been exonerated. mike was a revenge a horrible witness from what i understand. i am not surprised. i would say generally speaking, you don't put mike on as a witness. to get five or six years, there were too many circumstances. again, she was in a beauty contest and dancing with a beautiful smile on her face at 8:00 in the morning. charlie: but the jury had a

chance to hear her and test her credibility, and also faced questions. this is the same man that represented john he clean and others and had an extraordinary reputation. mr. trump: i have been with mike . people really take advantage of this man. i think this is one of those examples. i know we have a system of juries and a system where if you are found guilty, you are guilty, but somebody like me who maybe has a more independent say, hey, mike tyson, in my opinion, should really be given another break. charlie: do you think he will fight again, and he you believe he will ever be a heavyweight champ again? mr. trump: i believe he will fight again. i don't know if he will be a heavyweight champ again. in the prison he is in, they don't allow boxing. came back from the years he was off. man.rump: ali was a unique

i think tyson could come back. charlie: do you think hollifield will loose? mr. trump: i don't know, but i think the next champion will be lennox lewis. , second round, this gentleman went 18 or 20 rounds. charlie: that was his claim to fame, that he survived being in the ring. mr. trump: clinics it could be the first -- in the next could ennox could be- l the first real thing since mike. charlie: are you an athlete? mr. trump: scratch golfer. charlie: person into her 73 on good courses? par 72 or 73 on good courses? mr. trump: on good courses. golf can help you through a period. during the adversity period. thetrump: i would go out on

golf course, sometimes i would go out with friends, and we would play, and you don't really think about the problems of the world and the problems of everything. one of the things, frankly, i was doing so well and it was all so easy that i take it easy, and all of a sudden i started relying on other people. i said, listen, you went to the wharton school of finance, you are a genius, you take care of this. and i stopped, and i got rid of people, and since then things have been fantastic. charlie: 1992, the best year of your life? mr. trump: i think it could be one of the best years of my life, because it all came together financially speaking. ♪

thesee: i read all numbers, and this is not investigated journalism. we have the resources and manpower during a nightly show to do with someone would take six months doing on a piece about you. you know $5 million? mr. trump: at one point, i think i am close to $5 million. they passed the tax law which was stupidity. charlie: a lot of people supported that. bill bradley and a lot of people , the tax reform act that of all time.

mr. trump: i like bill bradley. but i have to tell you, he destroyed the home building industry in the united states. charlie: the tax reform of 1986 did? mr. trump: absolutely. incentive was taken out of the real estate industry. when the values went down -- and they plummeted, they absolutely plummeted -- billions of dollars worth halfate is now the billions of dollars. charlie: the crisis came about because a lot of savings and loan splendid money to developers that were bad loans that should have never been made. mr. trump: that's true, but a lot of that was exacerbated. a lot of loans that could have been good loans were made into bad loans because of the 1986 tax law change. what that dude is all of a sudden you have resolution

trust, and you pay billions and billions. $5 billion inve taxes, we are now paying trillions of dollars. charlie: ron perlman the other day made a billion dollars or something. mr. trump: he is a good man. i hope you didn't make a lot of money -- hope he did make a lot of money. but the government passed a stupid law. charlie: here is the other side, people with great youepreneurial gifts like did there gets extended too far. when the economy goes up and goes down, if you get yourself extended too far and you have a huge debt service, push comes to shove, and you find yourself in a very -- between a rock and a hard place. it is that, extending yourself too far, that causes so many

people to come to reality. mr. trump: i am not going to take blame for that. i think everyone takes blame for that. the only people who don't get in trouble are the people who don't do anything. when i built the taj mahal, they said it was a billion-dollar building, how could it possibly be successful? it turned out to be successful. riverside south will be a tremendous success. charlie: let's stop at riverside south. arguments, you faced huge opposition on the part of the planning. you turned it around, and most of the people give you the credit for turning it around. what was it, 9-0? mr. trump: a 12-0 vote. andlie: how did you do it, did you make so many confessions in doing it, that it is no longer economically viable? mr. trump: today, nothing is viable.

you could have the greatest piece of land in the best location in new york, and nothing is viable. when i did the grand hyatt hotel ? a lot of people said, donald, you are crazy, and i was crazy, but i did it. charlie: would it have been successful without the zoning and the abatement? mr. trump: no, it would not. charlie: so you got concessions. mr. trump: absolutely, and now we are asking for certain things to make riverside south successful. we have tremendous popularity. charlie: but they are supporting it because of the concessions you made. the question remains, can you deliver? mr. trump: the bottom line is, the market comes back, you deliver. the bottom line -- the market does not come back, you don't deliver. zoning foring to get a piece of land that is unsound, employing no people, sitting there, rotting, rat infested, and if i get the zoning, the

city desperately needs the job. if the economy turns around and incentives are put back into real estate on the federal basis -- there have been hits on everything. when i did trump tower, people said i was crazy. it was too big, too expensive, everything, but it turned out to be probably the most successful condominium development ever in this country. it was the most successful development ever built in this country on a condominium basis. two years before i started construction, people thought i was crazy to do it. it really worked out to be fantastic. you can say the taj mahal, trump plaza. so many of the jobs i do at the time imd remember supposed to be not good, and they turn out to be tremendous. who makes the decision, you are the bankers? are you going to parcel those projects off? mr. trump: the city is lucky to

have the bankers. they have invested a lot. they have confidence in me, confidence in the city. otherwise, there could be a war, and that would be bad for everybody. gone withks that have me, they believe in me, and i think ultimately the decision is going to be right. say,ie: you know what they when you grow as much money as you did, they become your partners. mr. trump: that's really false, because they know a lot more money than me. trouble. charlie: are they in bankruptcy? mr. trump: they are in deep trouble. my banks now i am good, i do it the best, and they also know i am honest. charlie: but the assets are not there to get their low back. mr. trump: i am not saying i would have been easy had the

other route gone, but they had a choice, and they could have gone a different route. charlie: what is the route they would have gone? mr. trump: did could have been contentious, rather than working with me, etc., and that would have been bad for me. you can't pay it back, we will call the tune. mr. trump: they could have done that, and it would have been bad for everybody, including men. -- including them. the banksll, i find to be very underrated in terms of intelligence level, the whole thing. i have worked with banks for two years, and these guys have done a fantastic job, at least as far as my stuff is concerned. i have done great for them, they have done great for me. i believe that in six months, 12 months, i may be stronger than i was two years ago or three years ago. i would like to see an uptick in the market.

charlie: whitey you think you will be stronger, now that you have given up equity -- why do you think you will be stronger, now that you have given up equity? mr. trump: very little equity. charlie: you sold it for more money than you paid for it? mr. trump: no, i will tell you -- charlie: you sold it for more money than you paid for. mr. trump: not for less, i reduced my debt by hundreds of millions of dollars. charlie: you sold it for less than you paid for it? not, imp: no, i did probably sold it for more than i paid for it, but it is a very complex formula. if we set out with a pencil and paper, we could figure it out in maybe five years. but i got rid of a tremendous amount of debt. i got rid of a lot of personal guarantees, being personal guarantees to banks. a piece of a loan. basically, if you take the

atlantic city properties, i have up to 80% of the taj mahal. the thing is making a fortune. making a fortune, or is it generating a fortune in revenue, but as a fortune plus index and says? -- in expenses? how much of it is net cash flow? a lot of money is flowing in, but the other door, there is money going the other way. mr. trump: i think the taj could have a cash flow of $30 million or $40 million after debt. that is a great cash flow. what do i do with it? the riverside yards, other things. trump plaza, i own 100% of trump plaza. there is this misconception. i sold very little. charlie: why would greenberg from bear stearns say you used to own 100% of assets that were worth nothing? mr. trump: what happened at

atlantic city -- there is a difference, and i owned 50% of the castle. i am also i own 50%, paying much less interest, because i sold 50% to bondholders. i got reductions, so it is making a lot more money. in trump plaza's case, i own 100%, and that is turning out fantastic. there are big differences, and that's what you see in all the big casinos. aarlie: they want to see you winner, because if you are a winner, that means they are a winner. mr. trump: they don't want to see me as a winner. when things were doing good, i was on the cover, but instead of having my chin up, i had my chin down. charlie: let me stay with that image for a second. they say about you, they took your toys away, took your yacht away. mr. trump: they did not take it away, i sold it. charlie: but did the banks put

it on an allowance or not? how bad did he get you? are you embarrassed? -- how bad did it gets for you? were you embarrassed? the papers were saying, "trump in trouble," "trump, golden boy, no longer has midas touch." mr. trump: in baseball, if you get 15 runs in the first inning and you don't get more runs, you still have if teen at the end of the game. generally speaking, you are going to win that game. charlie: ask the atlanta braves. mr. trump: we have seen some examples, but anyway, and life, i was 15-0, and then i had one bad year. maybe it was my fault, but it was a lot of people's fault. charlie: but you take some responsibility. mr. trump: absolutely. that i have to tell you, and a lot of smart people are in deep trouble right now, and i am not.

a lot of really smart people are dead, gone, buried. charlie: why are they dead, gone, buried, and you are alive, well, and -- mr. trump: before i explain that, you have 15 great years, one bad year, and people judge you by that last thing. you are only as good as your last thing, and that's it. you take a guy like terry 50mes, that man had great years, and then he married leona . i feel so sorry for harry. find a new woman if you can. marries leona, and all of a sudden he has a couple of bad years. they don't say the score is 50-2. harry is a major failure, and that is a shame. i had 15 great, then i had the

one bad year, one and a half real bad years. it was a struggle. it was surviving at the top. it was not easy, and it was not pleasant. charlie: did you ever think you would lose? did you ever lose confidence? mr. trump: no. not once. and the reason is i had to go back and do it myself. i built what i built myself, and i did it by working long hours, working hard, and working smart. i waswas a point where making so much, so fast, and it was so easy that i almost got bored. it is really -- charlie: i can believe you here saying, in a way, this was good, because it gave me a chance to test myself, it put me back and made me hungry again because everything was at stake and therefore i have to pay attention. mr. trump: i think i will look at it in the future as being good.

when it was happening, i had no choice. i will give you an example, riverside south. i have had riverside south for five years. i went through a secession of executives that were in charge. a year-and-a-half ago, i took it over myself. as you say, i got a 12-0 vote. i did it myself. largely by myself, with a group of people, but i really spearheaded something that turned out to be a great thing. i really went back to work and really did things myself, and i think that is why i survived, and maybe, who knows. charlie: let me point out a couple of other things. you lost three key executives. .nd friends and that you went through some executives after that and finally put your lawyer in charge. mr. trump: he has done a great job. .harlie: you had a divorce fair to say people were laughing

at you about this divorce. we were amused, but at the same time people said enough of this. you are feeding the columnists, too. mr. trump: i was not feeding. it was not a feed, it was a frenzy. they were feeding themselves. they were making up stories. i called one of the top people in one of the new york tablets and said, look, this is ridiculous and did not happen. he said, i know it did not happen, but it is selling papers like crazy. i think the 28 days in a row, you talk about woody allen, this is the biggest of the big, crazy, out-of-control, and i guess it had all the elements of a soap opera. charlie: didn't bring any satisfaction to you that during this adversity, you were able to get out of the marriage at a time where you were able to give up a lot less money than you would have had another time? mr. trump: there are a lot of

people who said i did this purposely. charlie: but there are those who say you used that adversity -- people were saying you had better make your deal now. mr. trump: i was truly happy to pay even on the -- ivana what i paid her. tubes andone down the it did up with nothing, she and the children would always be taken care of. at the time, don't forget i was being sued for $2 billion at one point, by her, and i was going to be nasty, and frankly, had i not had a glitch, i would probably not be on this program right now. i would be a divorce court. charlie: if you had not bottomed out and put some pressure on her -- mr. trump: it was not a question of pressure. there was a point where she probably felt i was not going to make it. charlie: but were you telling her differently? mr. trump: i was not telling her

anything. all she had to do is read "the wall street journal." they were making dire predictions about me, but i guess i got more print than anyone else. i not beened is, had involved in a glitch, i don't believe that we would be here right now. i would be studying for tomorrow's examination before a trial. charlie: he would get out in lawsuit. wouldump: i think ivana have gone out further than she did. the stories were getting so bad that she thought, i had better take what i am entitled to, and she ended up taking $2 million plus this and that, probably a package of $20 million or $25 million. i think she was smart in doing it. her lawyers were horrible. she could have gotten a lot more money at an earlier stage.

i offered more money and she ended up getting. ivana decided to hire these characters that were just looking for fame and fortune for themselves, in my opinion, and they did a bad job. my folks did a great job for me. i have a wonderful lawyer who did a great job for me. in the end, i seven by it, because i would have preferred the addition -- the original deal. ♪ with x1 you get the best of the oscars.

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charlie: there is also said, in this piece, that you love the limelight, and that you seek in the public, and the public's adulation is something, that the mirror of that is somehow important, confirming, true? mr. trump: i don't think so. i think i loved it at one point. i think i have gotten used to it. it is great for my business. the fact is, my casinos are up more than any casinos in the united states. we are up to number 1, 2, and three in increases in atlantic city, number 1, 2, and three every month. charlie: but at the same time, the most profitable.

you are saying they are up in revenue. you're not necessarily saying they are the most profitable. the trump taj mahal has the greatest gross operating margin of any casino in atlantic city, by far. it has the biggest gross, but the largest gross operating profit in atlantic city. i will say this, when people thought i was going down, they sort of deserted me. this is not the way it should be. charlie: tell me who deserted you. mr. trump: i am talking about customers, not local friends, this, that. when the casino customers, even the condominium -- when they thought i was going down for the camp, they thought i did not deserve it. now that they see i am back, i will tell you, one of the things that my casino is up so much more is that -- charlie: are you saying that therefore it makes sense to

promote this notion? look at this picture. you like this. is it good for you to promote that because it says "donald is back emco and all this stuff about scrambles off the cabinet -- "donald is back," and all this stuff about scrambles, it is good business. mr. trump: you are a fantastic guy, and you did this down in new orleans. here we are doing an interview. charlie: a heck of an interview it is. mr. trump: i hope you get good ratings. anything for you, charlie. it happens to be great for business. the fact that it is coming back -- and it would be nice if it were the other way. charlie: but apart from all that,, on, ego. .r. trump: i have an ego i have never met a successful person that did not have an ego. charlie: mother teresa had an ego. mr. trump: absolutely. charlie: nevertheless, you love

the limelight. you love, beyond the business, you like it. the fact that there are security guys ahead of you and behind you, and there is this adulation, and women want to be with you, and wherever you go there are flashbulbs in all this kind of thing. you like it. mr. trump: i don't mind it. i used to like it more. i still like it. i probably would miss it if it were not here. charlie: but you have grown accustomed to it as part of your -- mr. trump: maybe. but i also think it is great for business. it is great for the casino business, the condominium business. report that trump apartments in new york sell for more on a square foot basis than any apartments in new york, by far. it's not even close. a lot of that is all of this nonsense. charlie: let's talk about people you might say sorry to.

one is that guy in philadelphia a few days say you got fired. remember the guy? mr. trump: he did great, and now he is my biggest champion. charlie: but you got him fired. mr. trump: i can't help that i got him fired. charlie: did they fire him because of a call from you? mr. trump: i have no idea. charlie: but one man may have lost a job because you -- toughump: because he is a guy, a savvy guy, he is a stock analyst, and how he is my greatest champion. charlie: what is his name? .r. trump: marvin he was a great critic of may, and now he is saying this is the most brilliant -- charlie: did you do him a favor by getting them fired? mr. trump: i think in the long run, he is doing better charlie: . charlie: but don't you regret that? mr. trump: no, because that is life. charlie: no regrets, then?

mr. trump: if i had to do it again, what i have done things differently? yes. charlie: what would you have done differently? mr. trump: instead of stopping at the sale, i would have sold some other things. i think i would have treated people differently. i think that some of the people that were most loyal to me are people that i did not think would be. some of the people least loyal to me, i think i would have treated them differently. i would have treated different groups differently. i would have wiped the floor with guys who were not loyal. i love getting even with people. charlie: you love getting even with people. mr. trump: absolutely. you don't believe me? i know you well enough. i think you do. charlie: but you are going to get even with some people? mr. trump: if given the opportunity, i will get even with some people that were disloyal to me. charlie: but how do you define disloyalty? mr. trump: they did not come to my aid.

charlie: do they turn your back on you? mr. trump: they did small things that would not have helped. charlie: give me one example. mr. trump: i have one man who was on the board of a company i was selling, and it was a tremendous sale. it ended up going through, but it was ae things was great thing for me, but i had to clear the board. i only put him on that board because i was doing him a favor. he got some money by being a board member, etc. when it came time to remove this slate, everyone said i'm leaving. everyone left, except this one particular person, who said, i don't want to leave. when i heard about it, i went nuts, and i blasted him, and all of a sudden he left. i consider that a great act of disloyalty. he did leave.

it was a little like angela. angela ended up in favor of riverside south. i had never asked him for anything, this is a great job. he had to do a poll in order to find out whether or not -- charlie: but how can you get even with andy stein? mr. trump: it is not a question of getting even. i can be disappointed and i was very disappointed. charlie: will you hit him back? mr. trump: time will tell, i guess. charlie: are you looking for the opportunity? mr. trump: no, i'm just really disappointed in him. i was disappointed in this one man who did not want to get off the board, and he got off after being hit on the head with a canon. on?rlie: what was the cann mr. trump: the cannon was me. charlie: what was the threat? mr. trump: a strong threat. he would have gone through a lot of hell if he did not get off. and he gets off and it was a

favor. ofwas one of the great jokes the century, but it ended up that he got off and the deal went through, but that does not mean i have to love this particular guy. i want somebody that is loyal from the beginning, not somebody who is loyal because they are afraid. i have had a lot of instances like that, and i think, again, the new book -- and i don't know why i'm not promoting a book -- why i'm promoting a book that will not come out for three or the truth is, i think the most interesting aspect of that book is the loyalty chapters. charlie: you measure loyalty in terms of euro relationships? -- your own relationships? you stuck with them, and you showed your stripes. mr. trump: i don't think i show

my stripes. but i am so loyal people -- so loyal to people, that when someone is this loyal to me, i view it as a great act of horror. charlie: who do you support for mayor? mr. trump: david dinkins has done one hell of a comeback in the last six months. you saw what happened in los angeles. people really like the man. i have watched him. he has really become a very popular guy. i have to tell you that a year and a half ago, nobody wanted to run against george bush. it took a man from arkansas for virtually one of the few people who wanted to run, because george bush was unbeatable. it looks like david dinkins could not have possibly won reelection a year ago. mr. trump: he has done a great comeback. charlie: do you support him over giuliani? mr. trump: i am not announcing who i am supporting, and i don't

think it is relevant, but i think dinkins has done a great job. i also think he is a great human being. he helps me, but he was tough, he was strong, very much for the people. but when he gave me his word that you would now support the job, i really looked up to that. charlie: there is also a guy on the scene named ross perot, a billionaire. were you once a billionaire? mr. trump: i don't know. i was projected as one. charlie: i saw at least $900 million, but did you actually have a net worth -- what did you hide yourself up to? mr. trump: maybe what i have right now. nobody knows what i'm worth. what is the taj mahal birth? i have no idea what i am worth. ?harlie: is it a trophy it is vast and unique, and people pay a premium. mr. trump: people don't buy trophies so much anymore. charlie: but did you pay too

much for that trophy? mr. trump: no, when i bought the plaza, i had a huge profit a year after, and i decided not to take that profit. charlie: who sold it to you? mr. trump: a consortium of people area i am happy with the plaza hotel -- a consortium of people. i am happy with the plaza hotel. sports, a question of how many bad shots do you have. charlie: in other words, minimize your bad shots. mr. trump: everybody is going to get in trouble. it's a question of how you get out of trouble. i think the plaza hotel will turn out to be a great deal for me. charlie: that metaphor may be correct, because in golf, if you were playing and you have to go over the water to reach the green, sometimes you don't make it over the water, and it puts you in kobe land -- bogey land.

mr. trump: that's not where i am. charlie: but are you back to par? mr. trump: i think in six months, i will be stronger than i was three years ago. charlie: that's a birdie. mr. trump: what i did, i restructured things in the early 1990's, bad times, and now it is turning out to be good. let's see what happens with the economy. charlie: ross perot had $3 billion, and he got 17% or 18% of the vote. there were times when you might wanted to run for president. mr. trump: people said that, but i never did. charlie: you did not go to new hampshire to test the water? mr. trump: i went to new hampshire because they wanted me to go to new hampshire. charlie: but you knew that your appearance would generate talks. mr. trump: it certainly generated talks, but i did not do that for that reason.

i have no intention for running for president, and i would not have an intention of running for president. i will say this, ross perot made some monumental mistakes. and he not dropped out of the fes,tion and made the gaf if he did not have three or four bad days, he could have won. charlie: you will get political people who are smarter than you and i both and will say the same thing, that he could have been very competitive. but at the same time, whatever it is that made him generate $2 billion enabled him to do as well as he did, in part. he was very effective in debates, and that had nothing to do with how much money he had. at the same time, you have to take the good with the bad, and maybe what made him $2 million made him the way he is with the paranoia. the problemse of with politics and politicians is that you really can't have done

very much wrong, and that means you can't have done very much. i do a lot of things. most of them turn out good, but some have to turn out bad. the bad makes it more difficult. franklin roosevelt, i'm not sure he said this, but i think he wants said, i proud of all my enemies, i have earned them. which enemies are you proud of? mr. trump: i am proud of having ed koch as an enemy, because i think he is a major loser. he did not do a good job as a mayor. of buildingyears the ice skating rink, i was able to do it in four months with 1/10 of the money they spent. i just wanted to have my kids go ice skating in central park. i got tired of people sitting on onir -- i can't say asses this program -- but i got tired of people having no leadership.

instead of thanking me saying, donald, that's a great job, he went around saying, well, i think we could have done it if we did this or that. charlie: what other enemy are you proud of? mr. trump: i'm not proud of enemies. i am the kind of guy with great friends and great enemies, but i am not proud of that. charlie: is your father still an influence in your life? mr. trump: i have a wonderful i love he is somebody very much. i would say my mother and father together. charlie: in what way did they influence you differently? mr. trump: the father is very business-oriented, but a very good man. if someone came up to my father on the streets and said, i need $100, my father has the softest touch to people who are in trouble. he is a great humanitarian, and a sense, but he is a strong man. he is not cold at all. my mother is openly warm. charlie: except when it came to

mike tyson. mr. trump: it took 40 years, and she came out and said something. charlie: she made you like yourself when growing up. her love help to reinforce yourself. a magazine said about you, if donald gives you his word, he is good as gold. however, it said -- mr. trump: he said that sometimes i have a bad memory. charlie: that leaves you wide open to the fact that -- mr. trump: i have a photographic memory. charlie: exactly, can you trust what donald says because his memory may be short. mr. trump: i think you meant that jokingly. he is a great friend and a great gentleman. i think. what brings you the greatest satisfaction? is a conquering adversity, or something else? mr. trump: i used to think continued success, but i got word i it dashboard to buy it --

i got bored by it. i think i have handled things well from a business standpoint. charlie: and somebody says, this is just donald's hype. he is a giant promoter. he has not come back. it is not the great comeback he believes it is. mr. trump: all you have to do is look at the numbers. you look at the numbers, it has been a tremendous comeback. i am not saying i am as far back as i will be in six months. i am back and not in any trouble, and i am doing well in making money. money is not as important as people think it would be to a guy like me. charlie: so what is the most important thing to a guy like you? mr. trump: i think the way in which i survived the quality in which i have lived under the survival mode, the image i have per trade during the survival. thing. -- during the survival period.

up, i have to give to tell you, and you are not going to be doing interviews with them. many tough, smart killers gave up. they just gave up and said, i am not going to do it anymore. i think the way in which i survived is important. charlie: the arts of the comeback will be out in three or four months. you writing this alone? mr. trump: i have had two other writers, they were number one bestsellers. own.doing this on my it has

betty: asian stocks poised for gains. estoril your prepares to price its new 11 year bond. no guarantees, china warns investors it is backing trillions of dollars in asset management products. underlying profit doubles from a year ago. bhp's first-half profits soaring. we will get the outlook from the ceo. >>