♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> good evening. i am john hockenberry filling in for charlie rose. we begin overseas with the sinking -- shrinking caliphate known as isis. iraqi forces have taken all but the question -- western city of mosul. in syria, hundreds of u.s. marines and their artillery are joining local forces in preparation for an assault on the isis capital. is it safe to hope this is the beginning of the end of isis? with me is michael weiss, a

columnist for the daily beast and co-author of "isis: inside the army of terror." the book has been updated and reprinted. i'm pleased to welcome him to the program. >> it seems like mosul is still in transition. >> part of the ambition is to prevent isis from reconstituting itself or fortifying the city. most of the guys are fleeing mosul because it is a spent force and they will lose the city in a matter of weeks. the goal is to squeeze both ends of the balloon at the same time. racka i fear will be a more difficult fight rate only because it is the de facto capital of their caliphate. but the forces are ready to retake it. they will not be welcomed in as liberators. the organization, whether the umbrella group, the syrian democratic scientists the best forces, they are large list level -- largely kurdish.

the sunni arabs that are part of the umbrella are kept down. they are not meant to exert lyrical will for a reason which is the kurds are building their own state in northern syria and doing so with the backing of american firepower and jets overhead. the deployment of this military force, a couple of hundred marines will be fighting isis and waging indirect fire to "charlie rose." --raqqa. but really they are more there to keep the peace between two u.s.-backed organizations on the ground. >> the kurds and sunnis. >> you have operation euphrates shield which the turks mounted several months ago to fight isis. they have cleared out territory in northern aleppo and the headquarters of isis' foreign intelligence wing.

but really, the turks intervened to stop the kurds from building their safe let. the kurdish military force mounting this campaign is essentially a syrian offshoot of the kurdistan workers party. they have been at war with turkey for 40 years. the turks see them as a graver threat than isis in the long-term. there are so many inherent contradictions. it is almost embarrassing to say. american military forces are being deployed to keep two american allies from going to war with each other more than they are to help wage the fight against isis. >> is that because the u.s. deems important the u.s. be there to be this military mediator or have the turks demanded this as a condition of being part of this coalition or supporting this coalition? >> the turks wanted to go into raqqa themselves.

they wanted to lead a garrison of mostly sunni arab rebels. a lot of these people have been peeled off from the free syrian army. a lot have been trained by the pentagon under the program which ended in calamity several months ago. now the turks have been blocked by the syrian democratic forces which have taken the area. american forces have been redeployed to hold the turks at bay. gan's ambition is being undercut by the pentagon. according to everything reported umpthe last several weeks, tri l is doing obama's policy on steroids. rely on the democratic forces and do not wait to build up sunni arab military forces to march into raqqa. i and others who study this week that is brought with complications.

you do not use a minority to liberate a majority. it is middle east 101. iraqisson the rockies -- have learned from their mistakes is the force they have been using to march into mosul, these are not the shia militias. groups trained up by the iranian revolutionary guard corps, for instance. mostly these are elite counterterrorism units professionalized military divisions of the iraqi army that consist of sunni, shia, christian, and other minority groups. these guys are not going in to help iran plant its flag. they do not see this as a continuation of the iran/iraq war. that is working in mosul. in syria, any accounting for the

demographic and sectarian tensions in that country seems to have gone out the window. right now we are saying let's get the job done quickly. the kurds are very good at fighting isis. they are a reliable proxy. we will worry about the political aftermath later. my problem is militarily you can defeat organizations like isis. we did that in 2010 when it was known as al qaeda in iraq. it is what comes next you have to worry about. >> let's think about what comes next. there are two pieces of that. aware one, are americans the u.s. is now involved in statelets run by the kurds? one in a rock and no one presumably in syria in some form. when we were talking about fighting isis, i recall distinctly no boots on the ground. you are talking about hundreds of marines potentially facing isis troops.

the first isis casualty in a u.s. uniform is going to be big news. and big propaganda news for isis. aboutecall the debate whether to going to syria, a state department spokesperson said we do not want to send 18-year-old to damascus. instead, where sending 18-year-olds to raqqa. this will always be a game of mission group. the idea america to reduce its footprint or obliterate its footprint in the middle east, i thought this was a fantasy. one of the options i have put father -- forward in a recent article is america's big mistake in iraq was not only military withdrawal in a fashion it happened but political disengagement in the country. we washed our hands. we said you are a sovereign power. you deal with the mess. go to the green zone and parlay

with him yourself. in syria, it is a much more rangers state of affairs because the united states has intervened. iran has intervened to such an extent they have built up militias and proxy armies that are running thes security profile for assad. assad's army does not exist. even the russians said there were only about 6000 combat ready forces the holding to the syrian arab army. now it is gangsters, proxies, and some russians. america in the business of building a russian protectorate in eastern syria while helping the pkk establish a state in northern syria while also essentially leaving assad the 35% of terrain he controls which he considers to be a victory in this war? he will never be completely in control of syria. the country is balkanized.

what is america's in game and what are we doing to protect the bellwether constituency? that is not only sunni arabs but tribesmen who occupy eastern syria and western and central iraq. it pays to think of this not in terms of two nation-states. a sieve and has been for several decades. you will not see a cohesive, integrated state of syria come out of the ashes of what is left of isis. >> either isis is done and it means nothing were isis is not done. which would you pick? >> isis is not done. they have been planning for this. the dearly departed spokesman was the administrator of all of syria. in his last communicate in may it was year, he said -- implicit in his message, we are going to lose our state.

what we have to do is return to the desert where we reconstitute ourselves and built up our forces and marshaled resources after the8-11 time sunni awakening in iraq and the so-called surge drove us out of that country. they are planning to do that again. if america says you have lost mosul, fallujah, ramadi, now you lost raqqa, we are out of here. guess what? isis 2.0. it may not look exactly the same as it does now. i can tell you i am noticing a transformation i never thought i would have noticed with an organization like this. when it was founded as al qaeda in iraq, it was led by foreign fighters. over time, it underwent an iraqization taken over by former members of hussein's

organization. council14, half of the of isis consisted of former saddamists we knocked out of power. those guys are largely dead. now what i am seeing is europeans and central asians, particularly those who speak russian, rising to the fore in the organization. >> he may defeat isis but something else will replace it. >> and redouble their efforts to strike the west in the west. they want europeans because they speak the language, they come from the societies, and they understand the strengths and weaknesses of the societies. they know what a soft target is like. they have transgressed through airports in paris and brussels and berlin. you will see that phenomenon happen. as they lose their caliphate, they will branch out. they are already doing this.

they had a province in libya. one in afghanistan and russia. this is not where they exercise control. but they are still a going concern in terms of international jihadism. people are still lining up to join them. we are finding what looked to be a stray dog -- stray dog attacks are in fact agents of isis being run by someone sitting in raqqa. they are just being run remotely through the internet and being linked up with other people cultivated and recruited. >> what comes next does not look very pretty. michael weiss, thanks so much. ♪

♪ growers in california and alabama may be worried about the shortage of undocumented immigrants to work airfields. but one group stands to been a fit, the private prison industry. the department of homeland security has been asked by the white house to find 80,000 beds for detainees. that would double its current capacity. as tensions go up, so do the prison industry's profits. here to discuss the what the

aggressive new policies mean is the professor that has the research clinic at northwestern university's institute. welcome to the show. let's talk about what we can expect from the aggressive policies from the trump administration. >> i think what we will see is a uptickto the raids and in detentions and arrests and deportations that go back to the bush administration years. right now, detentions were going down since 2012. and now, there will be an uptick. john: i think people are prepared for detentions. but what is not widely known is the infrastructure for dealing with a number of people involved here is on a scale that i do not think many americans are aware of. give us a sense of where people go when they are detained, how long they stay.

in this sounds to me like a shadow prison system. >> that is what has been put in place since the early 2000's. it goes back to a law passed under the clinton administration increasedhe law that the possibility for people to be deported who have been in the country for a long time and took away a lot of discretion from immigration judges as well as the ability to appeal decisions. what we have seen is an increase in detentions from around 50,000 year95 to 475,000 people a who are detained under the obama administration in 2012. to accommodate that increase in detention and deportation, there has been a big upswing in private -- the private prison industry which has played a very active role in lobbying to accommodate those kinds of ends. in 2010, congress passed a law requiring the government maintain a on average no fewer

than 34,000 beds a day in order to keep people in custody under immigration laws. there is no comparable law requiring people to be locked up absent any particular penalty in the penal system. this is a law that was lobbied for aggressively by the prison industry and is still on the books today. it is outrageous. it is not anything that would be consistent even with conservative values, which would tend to want to limit government. is -- it ising that the basis for the kinds of policies that will be allowing the expansion of the attention industry going forward. john: let's take it apart. let's look at the question of the relationship with the press and industry. is there an incentive for private prison is to take detainees because they get some sort of reimbursement from the government and that

money goes into their revenue stream? >> right. in order to keep people locked up, ice develops a lot of contracts. about 65% of the people in custody right now are in custody with firms that are privately owned. the balance are in wings of county jails that are rented out by ice. john: this could be in any community. there could be an ice detention center down the street and you might not know it because it is part of an existing prison system or a wholly new facility. how would you know? >> there is actually some really good data available through a website run at syracuse university. if people want to find out where the facilities are, that would be a good place to look. they have a number of different interfaces for law enforcement data from the government. one of them has information on

immigration detention facilities, including the private facilities, as well as the places that are kind of optical that might be in a local neighborhood. they might be in an office park even and not have a sign or u.s. flag. many of those are also listed on that website. john: this is not to increase awareness because we consider these people dangerous. it is the case that most, the vast majority have committed no crime. they are just on their way out of the country and in a kind of suspended detention that could be fairly open-ended depending on the speed of the government's detention hearings and the like. >> right. to be clear about this, many of the people being held are challenging their deportation orders. they get an order that says ice believes you are not in the country lawfully. and they are allowed in many contexts an opportunity to contest that charge in immigration court.

the people being held in ice custody are not being held because they have been convicted of any particular immigration crime or any other crime. they are being held because they are challenging a civil order to deport them. they are administrative detainees. they are not there because they have been convicted of a crime. they are being held because they are a flight risk or there may be some factors in the record that would suggest they are a danger to the community. factoradditional risk is construed as bed space availability. those are three factors ice offices way when they are trying to decide whether to keep someone locked up or allow them to be free while appealing. many people detained have their orders terminated or have other discretionary release. they are actually not deported. there is a range of different kinds of outcomes. it is also important to point

out thousands of people being held in these facilities are u.s. citizens. these people are completely unlawfully detained and held under horrible conditions. john: let me stop you on that one. they are u.s. citizens because they are caught in a dragnet inadvertently? what would the reason a large number of american citizens would be in this particular system? >> these are typically young men of color coming out of the prison system or some other encounter with law enforcement. their claims of u.s. citizenship are disbelieved. evidence consistent with deported them is treated as accurate and evidence inconsistent with supporting porting them is treated as fraudulent on their part. this happens in immigration courts where judges will discredit evidence of u.s. citizenship. john: people will say the respondent see -- the respondent see a people in came in does not concern me a lot.

they took the risk. they are in this situation. terriblyd i be outraged by this, even if it is at this scale? >> i think there are a couple of ways to think about this question. one is about the magnitude of the response to what is a civil infraction. many of the people being locked up are here on visa overstays and so forth, and they have committed no -- they violated no criminal laws. the second question does have to do with the serious question that this country is coming to terms with now. and that has to do with our deportation laws and our borders. i think we are any moment now that reminds me perhaps of when in the 1850's in the context of their being legal slavery in the south. in 1850, congress passed the fugitive slave act. that allowed the slave catchers

to go to the north and required communities they are to return escaped slaves to the south. communities in the north than in the past may not have been so amiable about slavery suddenly had to deal with this question in their communities. this seems very resident to me about what is happening now. the sanctuary cities and state attorney generals and so forth who are pushing back against the ramped up enforcement of deportation laws. again, i think you're right. i think people especially on the left in progressive communities need to think seriously about their relationship to these laws. are we going to maintain this posture of saying, we want an exception here, here is a nice family, here is a good immigrant family? or are people going to start looking at the long-term consequences of these laws and saying having these facilities all over the country keeping people locked up instead of allowing them to work, removing

people from their families and jobs and so forth, there's something really problematic about that and maybe we want to think more seriously about what it would look like to have open borders, especially in north america, to have something more like the european union. i know this sounds like a reach at this point. but if you think about two analogies that might be worth considering. one is that for most of the history of the world, slavery was something that was normal and challenging it even in the 19th century seemed strange. secondly, even movement within a country in the 15th and 16th century was not something allowed. in england until the 17th century and even early 18th century, if you were caught outside the parish of your birth without a pass, you could be whipped. your ear would be seared. if you were caught a third time, he would be executed. one of the penalties was being transported to the plantations, the colonies in america.

in that timeframe, people thought if you allowed free movement, that would be this terrible thing. you would end up with all of the poor people flooding london. flash forward to the 21st century, nobody would think it is a plausible solution or even a problem to say we want to limit the movement from people in mississippi to new york because there are a lot more poor people in mississippi. i know this is a lot to take in. but the system we have right now is really inconsistent with any ands of liberal values conservativism with a little c. i think this is something people might want to consider as we contemplate the alternative, which is this ramped up enforcement of the deportation laws and the massive expansion of the prison industry. john: professor, thanks for illuniating us on that. >> thank you so much.

♪

>> good evening. i'm katie couric, killing in -- filling in for charlie rose. foundation has launched a global campaign ambition.race here is a look at the public service announcement of the campaign. >> i am ambitious. i will not hide it. >> we embrace ambition.

>> women are made to be ambitious. risks, not live in fear. longer will ambition in a woman be seen as negative. >> help more women run for office. >> transform society -- >> no judgment. >> take the pledge. >> embrace ambition. >> will you? we are excited on the tory burch program. before we talk about this and credible campaign, that was very exciting. i felt empowered just watching it. i want to ask you how you embrace ambition or did not when you were younger because, in preparing for this interview, i read about how you got into fashion, and it seems to me that you set your sights on a career in fashion after graduating from the university of pennsylvania

with a degree in art history. you came to new york and things kind of fell into place. can you tell us about the early days of your career? tory: i think i was raised in a family that i did not know gender would have anything to do with it. i grew up with three brothers and my parents really taught us that we can do anything if we worked hard, so that was the general feeling. studied artnn and history. i got a job sorted randomly in fashion. i sent a resume to an interesting designer who looked like rasputin. he said i could start but i had to start the week after i graduate from penn. that is how i got into fashion. it was a bit by chance. my mother were his clothing. it went from there. re his clothing. it went from there. katie: he started out in pr and marketing? right, his office was so

small. it was me, his partner, and him, learning a little bit about everything. it was a minimalist space. mats on the floor. vodka would start at 10:00 a.m. it was a very crazy beginning to my career. katie: what did you learn in that first job that provided the foundation for you as you moved up into the business? about thearned a lot industry and how colorful the industry was. you always have people coming and going and i was -- i would pretend he was not there. he did not particularly love women. he was trying to cut my hair on the time and make me not wear makeup, but his clothing was incredible. celebrities.s it was always minimalist. just beautiful fabric. katie: how did you develop your ascetic? tory: 2004. endeavor, that a huge

i mean, how did you say, i'm going to name the brand after myself and i'm going to build an empire? tory: a couple things. i had no design experience and i had never run a business. i was a stay-at-home mom for four years. the job i had left was a very tough decision. ofad offered to be president a brand from spain and i found out i was pregnant with my third son. i knew i could not do both jobs well so i became a stay-at-home mom and it was during that time that i knew i wanted a career, but i had no idea what it was, so i researched starting a school and then starting a company at the same time, and it really was working on the idea of beautifully made clothing that did not cost a fortune was the beginning. katie: starting a school? was: i had twins and i thinking it was really hard to

get children into schools and there's a need for incredible schools and i was interested in education, but it sort of did not go anywhere. katie: do you ever wonder what your life would have looked like if you had focused on education rather than fashion? so manyfeel like i had different ideas, none of which came to fruition and i was so tired of hearing myself talk about that, so i decided to start working on this company, the idea of this. it was called jack's in the 60's, and it was great looking clothing that were hard to find and it was about not spending a fortune, and that was where it started. rest of history, as they say, because i think you have done pretty well for yourself. tory: part of the business plan from day one was to start a foundation and that is something that has always been a driving force for me, and i think, when you ask where i got my style, i was a complete tomboy growing up, but my parents were very glamorous and still are, and i

was surrounded by my mom and dad. he should have been a designer. my mom, too. every family dinner, she would have beautiful flowers and the way she just took care and she was into every detail, i really learned from them. tory: -- katie: i katie: read a sweet story from your dad passed away. a lighter with charms on it, one of your most special possessions and you made it into a locker orm access -- locket necklace. tory: he was the sweetest man. i would never know who would be -- who i would be coming home to, and they would come for a couple days and stay six months. they were always taking from highs-people in. hampshire, hotel new robin hood. we have this crazy childhood, and it was fun, but always about family and love. expandedur brand has

significantly since you expanded the company. how many stores you have now? tory: we have about 200 globally, about 89 in the u.s.. katie: and you started athletic wear? my daughter told me what is called. tory: we call it tory sports. coming and going. katie: when did you start that company? tory: a year-and-a-half ago. it is going well. it is really exciting. we are keeping it separate from the main brand. exciting. we are really starting to build it. ofie: this is a trend a lot plans are doing this kind of clothing, which is comfortable. you can go from the gym to the office at times, right? tory: i think it started as a trend, but it is here to stay. it is a shift in the way women undressing, and we have been working on it for maybe

seven years and i had forgotten how hard a start up is. it is excruciating. we finally got it going. the idea is to marry real function and fashion, and how do you think about the elegance of sport? and that is exciting. i started thinking of the royal it isaum's, so it has -- exciting. we have running, yoga, coming and going. katie: i want to get to your incredible philanthropic work in a moment. as you expand the brand, how do you make sure that you are not expanding to quickly or into many arenas? i think we have seen some designers in the past kind of everywhere, and helps to measure at -- and who helps you measure that? tory: i think now more than ever, there is a philosophy of less is more.

i think department stores used to be in charge and other customer is in charge. i think we could be three times the size right now if we wanted to be, but it would not be a healthy company. i personally have been so careful about growth. even though we had the great projector he -- great trajectory, we don't want to be everywhere. we want to be in the right places and very careful. i think a lot of people open to many stores, get to promotional and when we do that, and we have done promotions, we have pulled back into the can really hurt your company. 13ie: the company is now years old. how has it evolves and what were the most important lessons you have learned? tory: they have been so many. first of all, on some level, i never imagined being on a journey like this, so to feel so privileged to work with the amazing team that i have worked with to build it is extraordinary, but it has evolved where i have learned a lot about design and how to be a ceo, and i think each one, i have learned on the job.

it is patience, that is something i have learned. i have always had a bit of it, but my parents told me that i have to buckle my seatbelt, thicken my skin, and i think that was good advice. katie: what is the biggest mistake you made along the way? tory: i don't know if i can say it on tv. there is many. there's so many. instinct is good. if you really believe in your it is important to follow it. if you have a unique point of view. and when i have not gone with my instinct is when we have gone wrong, and i think the great thing is, with our company, and any great company, you have to be flexible and when you make a mistake, reacts quickly, get out of the mistake, and i keep thinking of grace under pressure. katie: let us talk about embracing ambition, which is such a great campaign, in my opinion, because you are right. i think society and women themselves feel fairly

ambivalent about the word "ambition." how did you come up with it, why did you come up with it? tory: it started with the first article that was written on our wepany and a friend said shied away from the word ambition. she was 100% right. i started to think about that a lot. when men are vicious, it is celebrated and win women are ambitious, it -- when women are ambitious, it seems crass or unattractive. women internalize that, i did it myself. we need to get rid of it. it is a very harmful stereotype. katie: did you find, in talking to other women, that they felt the same way? that they shied away from the term as well? iry: i think every woman spoke with headset at some point in their life that they understood what i mean. you know, i was interviewed by a man yesterday and he's like -- i said, "of course it does."

it is rampant, in fact. if you think about how few jobs that there are over women as ceo's, -- katie: actually, the number has declined. he was interesting for me to read that in 2014-2013, there were 24 women ceo's. in 2016, 21. tory: of fortune 500 companies? katie: yeah, that number has declined. disheartening. tory: i think of a woman wants it is hard, and you have to make those choices, there should be equal rights to do that, and that is sort of, when you think of the word feminism, i think it is misused. feminism is about equal rights. it is not about just liking men. men have to be part of the conversation. it is a human right. it is not a favor. it should be a given. katie: women's rights are human rights. tory: it should be a given. equality for women. it is half the population. katie: i think there is a lot of

subtle sexism in the workplace that really cannot necessarily, you cannot go to hr about it, but it is almost more insidious than blatant sexism, do you agree? tory: i think there is both. i have definitely experienced both. there is definitely that augments club in tally. club mentality. i was told never to say social responsibility in the same sentence. i thought that was so interesting. now, when he think of millennials, that is what they look foremost, that is so important. katie: i want to talk about feminism and where you think we are today. we saw the women's march following this election. it was a day without women this week. where do you think the women's movement is right now? do you think it has been reenergized and younger women

are embracing the notion of being feminist? tory: i think it is been reenergized and i'm very hopeful. i was blown away by the women's march, but it was extraordinary to see city after city around the world really unites, and i think the important thing is not to lose that of how powerful message is, and not to make it a partisan issue. katie: with any political movement, there has to be forward momentum. as a businesswoman, and as someone who has been so successful in building a brand, what should this movement to in order -- movement do in order to become bigger and have impact? tory: i think when i speak to father's and i talk about their daughters, they want equality for their daughters, and whether they are republican or democrat, so if we start to have men be part of the conversation about

the equality of women, whether it is the quality of pay or paid issue it, or whethe whatever is, i do not think it should be about gender. it needs to be about the quality of work and women need to have equal rights, so how do we push that forward? how do we keep the conversation going? the great thing about now is people are more engaged than they have ever been. katie: i read an essay i think during the campaign about men who want to quality their daughters but not necessarily for their wives. [laughter] tory: i knew you were going to say that. that's scary. katie: i thought that was interesting and depressing. i think generationally, it is changing. you have three boys and you were loveng me earlier that day the fact that you work. they embrace your career. enthusiastically. i think for a lot of kids, our kids ages, i think having mothers who work is a very

different experience than our generation because my mom did not really have a career. she worked at lord and taylor and did some other volunteer work, but she was not a career woman. i think she would have been a great stockbroker. tory: i think she would have been a great architect, my mother. how sad that they had a bit of a , because generationally, i think it is differently. it is great to be a role model, you for your daughters, me for my boys. when i showed my boys the campaign, i had to explain to them that ambition for women is perceived as different than it is for men. tory: -- katie: it is interesting. i personally never had trouble with the word ambition. i always felt like, yes, i'm ambitious, and i'm totally happy and ok with that. tory: i think it is great. certainly, i am now, but i can

tell you, we have entrepreneurs at google who do not want to be perceived as ambitious. katie: really? that is what they want? tory: they think that men do not find it attractive, and i think that it is a stereotype, and a harmful one, and i think it is out there. katie: who want a man who does not find ambition attractive? i think those are the wrong man for powerful women to couple with, if you will, right? tory: i definitely agree. i think that, certainly, when i speak at colleges and you said your daughter is in college, and hows so impressed with ambitious the students were. when i was in college, it did not seem to be the case. go andf them did not have important careers for themselves. i think times are definitely changing, and this, we just have to support the issue and make

sure that women have equal pay. i think that is a big one. katie: women are not paid as much as men for the same job and that has been the case for years. at some point, i think most of us feel like that just has to change. a statistic the other day, and i kind of remember this, that women could not have a credit card in their own name in 1972, so we definitely have, ways. the thing i am worried about is we go backwards, and that is something that i think the women's march and this movement is so important. needs to make us move forward and not go back to the 1960's. katie: i know the trump administration has the fewest number of women in its cabinet in a long time, and i think there are those that feel it is not the most hospitable administration to women in a long time, but i think in a way, it is galvanizing those who, like you, do not want to see women's strides go back, move

backwards. tory: women offer a lot. they have a different perspective. katie: you give advice to a lot of millennials through your foundation. tell me about what you do and what your goals are, because you work with young entrepreneurs. tory: we do, but they are not all young. katie: i don't need to hear that. [laughter] tory: it is about women entrepreneurs in the united states. it is all kinds of women and that is what i love most about it. we talk a lot about confidence. i think that is a big thing that women do not have. it is hard for women to ask for a raise. i also have had that. i don't know if you have ever had that. it has been difficult for me. i'm not sure why that is. it is really being the best advocates for themselves, and i think, not in an arrogant way, but men can really are present themselves quite well and i think women need katie: to be taught that more. why is -- to be taught that more. katie: why is that?

tory: i think it is changing, but i think we need to really be there to change it more. katie: let us talk about pragmatically what you do to help these women because i'm sure some women watching this at home would love to hear your advice for those who want to start a business or do something on their own and just do not know where to start. iry: one exciting thing is told you earlier, part of the business plan of our company was to start a foundation, and i was very worried that it would ever be perceived as marketing. we did not want to talk about it for a long time. we ended up launching the foundation in 2009, and it has taken until now to really see impact and scale. i think, with a partnership with bank of america, we have now given out over $25 million in the last two years to women up to the norse in the u.s. -- to women entrepreneurs in the u.s.

women have a harder time getting loans. that is just a fact. they pay their guns back. bad.ere loans they are dedicated to the communities. they are great investments. katie: can you give me an example because it is hard to visualize some of the women you are helping? can you give me some real-world examples? tory: there are so many. we have one who has a hot dog stand in new orleans and she is amazing. katie: diva dogs? tory: incredible. we have a woman in texas who started on food stamps. she had four children with her husband and they were down and out and she started to make granola bars, and we were able to give her a loan and now, she has a thriving company. women are really courageous. they have courage. they can get themselves out of really tough situations. we have a woman who goes on movie sets and really makes it

more green, and shows them how to do that. there is so many different kinds of business. there was an architect who now s for mastectomy victims. we had one who was in -- she had a shredding company that was in a car that she would take two offices, they would bring down the document and shred it on the spot. kinds of industries. a lot of food industries, certainly fashion, and it is really inspiring to me. katie: i bet it is. it inspire you to kind of keep going with your business so you can help more women like them? tory: certainly, it does. aside from our partnership with bank of america, we also have an education program with goldman sachs, and that is really exciting, and we also have with our foundational fellowship program, we will have 30 entrepreneurs which will we will highlight

on our website. we have to narrow it down to 10 and they each get $10,000 of a grant towards their education for their business and the winner will get $100,000 grant. katie: isn't it ironic that when you first started out, you were advised not to use social responsibility and business in the same sentence? it seems things have changed dramatically in the last five years. so many companies now, social responsibility is part and parcel of their mission. it is not about just doing well. it is about doing good. you know, i see that in company after company and it is an exciting development in business. katie: i think people are looking for more, and certainly, there is a bit of a backlash with so much stuff and people want less, but more integrity, and things that are doing good, and if we could be role models to companies that think about philanthropy or social responsibility from the beginning and not wait until they are successful 20 years out, it would be a wonderful

thing and it does not have to be financial in the beginning. just giving time off for a day. support a charity or any organization. we talked about millennial time to themes to me, i have read a lot about millennials, and they prefer experience is over -- experiences over stuff. they do not want to be burdened by a lot of possessions, so i think it is really important that this social responsibility in business,sts because they are very socially conscious, i think. things think also the that our investors did not think about, it is good for the bottom line. it makes our employees are happy. it is attracting great people to want to work that our business, but it is also great for our customers, so it is a win-win in every way. katie: obviously, you are doing a lot of good, and doing incredibly well, so when you

look at the next 10 years, and sort of what you want to accomplish, you know, how you want your business to iterate, as they say in the tech world, what do you see on the horizon? tory: everyone always told me there is an inflection point in 10 years of the business, and i never really understood what that meant until recently. we have looked at our business, we had this amazing growth, and the first 10 years was super exciting, but we restructured to look at the next 10, and i think less isout, again, more. we are editing, but really looking at every product with more integrity, but also, how do we do more good, how do we have more experiences, what is personally -- what does personalization main? -- what does personalization mean? one would everno buy online and we launched an e-commerce site. it is interesting how there is a

lot of naysayers, and people who have different opinions, but when i talked to entrepreneurs conviction you have and drive and you believe in your vision, it is so important to keep your focus. katie: i have to ask you a fashion question because, you know, i think one of your first items were the ballet flats. tory: my mother. [laughter] katie: yeah, and i think everyone knew you had got tory burch flats, and i'm curious because i have always been one of those people who, i do not like labels. i don't like purses that have labels on them. -y to me.show off th have you changed that approach in terms of screaming like, "i'm wearing tory burch!" tory: our logo was not meant to be a logo traditionally. it was meant to be more of a design element because i too am not one to wear a lot of logos,

so it became this kind of crazy thing that we loved and embraced, but over the years, we definitely pulled it back, and we love the logo, but we want to love it in a careful way. we don't want it to be all over the place even though it has done so well and we are so excited, but i totally understand where you are coming from. i wanted to also take a moment to say congratulations because you will be getting married soon. you are marrying a frenchman. tory: a frenchy. pierre. six boysand we have together. we are busy. we have a lot of children. katie: i think it is very exciting. i wish you much happiness and continued success because you are doing such great things with your success. it is wonderful how you are paying it forward. tory: thank you so much, katie.

i really appreciate it. katie: thanks, tory. ♪

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