♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: siddhartha mukherjee is here. he is an assistant professor of medicine at columbia and a cancer physician and researcher. he is also a very good writer, a pulitzer prize-winning author. his latest book comes out in paperback this month. he writes about the future of automated medicine in a new piece for "new yorker" magazine. it is called "the algorithm will see you now." i'm pleased to have him back at this table. welcome. siddhartha: thank you. charlie: with some sense of paternity, tell me how this piece came about. siddhartha: this piece came

about because it is a conference you organized every fall. i was talking at this conference to sebastian thrun, who works on ai. he told me i have been working on this thing in ai and medicine. my ears perked up. we were at the conference. i said, "what are you doing?" he began to describe an early version of this. it certainly had not been published in "nature" as it eventually was. it instantly caught my attention. what if we could use these powerful technologies, deep learning paradigms, to start doing diagnosis? what would happen to radiology? what will happen to doctors when we engage powerful computers to aid in diagnosis?

that is the birth of the piece. charlie: it began with a "what if?" what did you discover? siddhartha: one of the questions raised almost immediately for me was, you know, once we enter this space, where do we start? -- where do we stop and where do we start? as the conversation proceeded that afternoon at this conference that you organized, it became clear to me the ambitions of these diagnostic technologies was wider than i imagined. for instance, sebastian talked about a mirror that would photograph you every day. using these technologies, map every growing mole on your body or sitting in a bathtub, you would have a scan performed at granular detail. and it could figure out what was growing and not growing. charlie: if there was a malignant cell, it could see it grow?

siddhartha: that's the ambition. it raised a series of questions. number one, could this be accurate? how accurately could you train a machine to recognize a melanoma and distinguish melanoma from a benign skin lesion? that was my question. the second question is very important. what if you over-diagnose? what if you were sitting in this bathtub or in this hall of mirrors constantly being surveyed, big data is watching you? when we start intervening on cancers we would not otherwise intervene on? maybe those cancers are harmless. as an oncologist, for me, it raises the whole question of diagnosis. where are we going with diagnosis? are we going to over-diagnose? are we going to start invading in the body in a way we had not expected to because as machines

learn, they will keep telling us? charlie: help me understand the difference. i have always believed all knowledge is good. the more you knew, the better you were. you're saying if the more you know causes you to take too many tests? siddhartha: that is exactly right. let me turn it back to you say all knowledge is not good in medicine. there are things you do not need to know about. charlie: that's one thing so you , do not need to know about it. i'm not talking about need. what harm does it do? siddhartha: harm might be overdiagnosis can cause severe harm. you can cut off pieces of the body. you can biopsy them. there are economic costs. there are consequential costs. you might be chasing cancers we now know from autopsies that many people will die of cancers that are incidental. in other words a person dies in , an automobile accident. you do an autopsy and find all these cancers in their body. many are incidental. they will not die of these cancers.

imagine if the machine was tell it found cancer, but it may not be able to tell you is that cancer will metastasize and become aggressive? you have the possibility of entering into this hall of mirrors. that is where we have to think about diagnosis very clearly. the paper that tipped me off is the study in "nature," which is, can you teach a machine to learn to distinguish a benign skin lesion from a melanoma? what is amazing about it is it seems that you can. you don't need to give it rules. that is what is astonishing about it. in medicine, there are two ways we learn. i about this in the article. one way is giving facts. this fact is true. melanomas have these characteristics. if you see these characteristics, asymmetric, the

diameter is big, and the color. those are rules. that is rule-based learning. but if you really think about how doctors diagnose, doctors often make a transition from rule-based learning to pattern-based learning. we begin to pick up patterns. we begin to figure out that we cannot tell you exactly, but that looks like melanoma and that does not. that looks like cancer and that is not look like cancer. this patient looks like he or she has significant part in -- heart disease. this patient looks like she doesn't. what i found amazing about these learning algorithms is that the rhythm is in do not give them rules. they figure it out. charlie: that is one part of ai. you learn by the experience of going from here to there. siddhartha: absolutely. it is the knowing how.

the machine, maybe, we don't know exactly how the brain works, but perhaps by adjusting weights and balances along these categories. i give the example in the piece about a child learning this is a dog and that is a wolf. the question is, how does a child know that is a dog and that is a wolf? the child knows by using 100 categories of dog and 100 pictures of a wolf and beginning to make their own judgments about what characterizes a dog and wolf. we don't say to a child, here are the rules for dog, and those are the rules for wolf. we say here is an example of a dog. here is an example of a wolf. you figure out the difference. charlie: that is exactly what happens. it offers the most far-reaching, some will say, because you are

actually allowing the machine to learn. you are not just feeding it a huge amount of data. >> right. you are feeding it a huge amount of data. you are not feeding it rules. that is the crucial difference. the machine figures out, the algorithm figures out, how to adjust its own weight and balances and arguably capture -- and ultimately capture those categories with a great degree of accuracy. this is what astonished me. going back to that conversation i had with the ai groups. i began to see the real results. the machine outperformed seasoned dermatologists. jeffrey hinton, considered the father of a certain kind of deep learning, thinks these machines will outperform radiologists.

and then add to that genetic diagnosis. the idea we can look at genes and figure out this is truly a cancer that will likely metastasize. we have really begun to enter a powerful diagnostic era. charlie: it will be able to determine early on whether a gene has the possibility? siddhartha: it will be able to determine whether a pathological lesion, melanoma, has the possibility to metastasize rapidly. it's very significant in prostate cancer. prostate cancer is a great example. some prostate cancers will never be aggressive. they will be indolent. other prostate cancers can be extremely aggressive, metastasizing bones and causing terrible disease. it would be astonishing if a combination of deep learning,

plus genetic technology, plus real doctors one would hope, would somehow be able to tell patients how to distinguish between one and the other. charlie: my impression is some of this is being used in the case of radiologists already. siddhartha: yes. charlie: a kind of ai is being used. siddhartha: the kind of ai being used so far, i went back through , trying to investigate this, i sat in on some demonstrations. in real clinical use, it is hard to call them intelligent. they are artificial, but not intelligent. charlie: what is it that they have? speed? siddhartha: speed, they have mechanisms to spot you an area. for instance, in mammography, they can guide you. what they cannot do, and i make an important distinction, that machine, first generation tools,

when they catch -- even if it is 4000 images, it is not smarter than the one seeing zero images because it is rule-based. the important distinction is the new machines are not told any rules. they figure out the rules for themselves. that is what is important. we are not telling them what to think. they are thinking, if you can call it thinking, by themselves. that is what is astonishing. charlie: what does the algorithm teach them? siddhartha: as far as i understand it, it allows them -- if you give the machine category one and two, the algorithm spots features in category one and two.

it extracts those features from the categories and begins to build a mechanism to distinguish category one and two. it extracts the features. what is amazing about it -- here is what is amazing. this took me totally by surprise. it cannot tell you -- it is not easy for you to go back and query the machine and say, what are those features? you can do that to a human being. you can go back to a dermatologist and ask her or him, what are the features that you were picking up? they will give you some answers. they may be right or wrong but they can give you answers. it is very difficult to do for the machine. the machine knows but cannot tell you. that is what is amazing. it is a black box. charlie: where is this going? are we now going to go to any doctor and he or she is going to

be in partnership with whatever the latest developments are in artificial intelligence? and therefore, it becomes their partner in diagnosis. siddhartha: most people think more than that. most people think it will be a partner in diagnosis and a partner in treatment. in a discipline which is extremely information rich and pattern rich and where the costs of making mistakes are very high, medicine, most people think we will begin to use computers as our extended arms. it will be an entirely symbiotic relationship. gene sequencing and other technology, we will become symbionts with these types of technologies. it is not just going to be relegated to diagnosis. it will move right through. charlie: when i tell you this, you will tell me it has no

relevance at all. but i'm constantly amazed how the accumulation of use amounts -- huge amounts of data is serving every end. there is a story in "the new york times" today or yesterday about how golfers are now able to accumulate data like never before in terms of understanding what they are doing wrong and how to play the game better. siddhartha: that is absolutely correct. i want to take you towards the end of piece where i raise the question about big data. big data in this case is absolutely necessary to teach these algorithms how to distinguish between the categories. if you feed it 2000 examples of melanoma and 2000 examples of non-villanova, it will keep learning. what big data is not very good at, and might get better at soon, is it cannot help us answer why.

it doesn't help us understand the patterns behind the patterns. that is where human beings still have -- charlie: is it likely to change? siddhartha: that is a big question. i gave you the example of a child who distinguishes between a dog and cat or wolf. but then a child or children, we, perform additional functions. we also question why a dog is different from a cat. we open our own black boxes. we say, what makes a dog different from a cat? i give the example of a baseball player who knows exactly where the ball will land because he or she has thrown the ball one million times. if you say land it there, they will land it exactly there. but that person may not know newton's laws. they don't know why the ball is landing at that spot.

physicalir mental and algorithm, they have become absolute expert at landing the ball at the spot. the question i raised is as we depend more and more on the baseball player model of landing the ball, will we start losing physicist? will we lose the person who takes a step back and say, the reason the ball landed there is because of the hidden law behind it? charlie: and the reason that's important is so you can therefore apply that physics to another area. siddhartha: absolutely. it's the reason in medicine you can apply that fundamental knowledge to figuring out how you direct the immune system against the melanoma you just spotted. why does the heart behave in this way? how can we make new medicine? there is a seduction of big data. there are certainly deep solutions that come out of big data. at the end of the piece, i raise a question about the seduction

of big data. online, you can find a piece. it is called "ai versus md." it is a bit of a provocative joke. in the end, it will be ai plus md. we will fuse. there's a sense in the medical community that there might be not only the problem of overdiagnosis but the possibility we will lose the kind of way of thinking if we become very reliant on these devices. on the other hand, there are obviously great benefits. imagine being able to diagnose melanoma with a great degree of accuracy, or some other cancer. charlie: where time is significant. siddhartha: time is significant, and time costs money. ♪

♪ charlie: the eighth annual dvf awards took place this month. launched in 2010 by the family foundation, the awards honor women committed to improving the lives of other women. recipients also granted $50,000 for the nonprofit work. after jane goodall received the year's lifetime leadership award, the renowned conservationist founded the jane goodall institute in 1977 who helped protect chimpanzees and

promote environmental sustainability. joining me now is diane von furstenberg and dr. jane goodall. i am pleased to have both of them at this table. tell me why you created this. actually, i've always been -- actually, i've always been inspired by these incredible women who have the strength to fight and the courage to survive. and after that, the leadership to inspire. my children, my son said you should do a prize, something you can give exposure to people and also the foundation can give them money. and if you do it for years, it will last after you. charlie: sounded like a good idea. diane: it sounded like a good idea. i was very shy about how to go about it. peanut started the first

women in the world conference, tina started the women in the first world conference, eight years ago we started on the second night of women of the world conference. it happens at the u.n. it is kind of intimate. at first, i was very shy. but it has been amazing. and i was able to honor these women who have done extraordinary work, who are completely unknown, and given them exposure and sometimes -- a lot of them became cnn heroes and more and more. it is like a family. i keep up with them and i know them. it is a beautiful thing. and of course, the lifetime award has gone to people like hillary clinton and gloria steinem and oprah. and now, jane goodall, who i am so excited to meet and be able to speak to. charlie: you have not met her before? diane: no. charlie: my goodness. diane: we met here at this

table. charlie: how you feel on receiving this? not the first award for you. dr. goodall: no, but it is a great honor. i think everything like this is helping me to get out a message to people which i think is tremendously important at this time when we are doing so much to harm the planet, when there is so much discrimination, when there is so much to try and put right. charlie: so much of a lack of understanding of how precarious it is. dr. goodall: it is really precarious. climate change, if you deny climate change, there's something very strange. you know, the fact we have had an impact on the warming of the planet is pretty conclusive from all the scientific reports. charlie: you have brought some friends with you. charliedr. goodall: yes. people know about carbon dioxide and burning fossil fuel adding

to greenhouse gases. so too with heavy meat eating. when you cut the forests down , which releases co2, it changes plant protein to animal protein. in addition, there are billions of animals cooped up in tiny spaces. they all need to be fed. food goes in one end and gas comes out the other. methane is an even more vicious greenhouse gas. charlie: what does the institute do? dr. goodall: we try to make the world a better place. we started off with the conservation of chimpanzees and the forests as well as studying them. it hit me one day flying over the little national park where we still do research. it was once part of a forest. when i looked down, it was a tiny little oasis surrounded by

completely bare hills. more people than the land could support, too poor to buy food from elsewhere. that is when it hit me. unless we improve the lives of the people, unless we do something about this crippling poverty where you have to cut the trees down to grow food or make money with charcoal, conservation simply will not work. we have to work with the local people and have them as our partners. charlie: how successful have you been? dr. goodall: we started with 12 villages around the national park. we are now in 52. the trees have come back. no more bare hills. we started the program in six other african countries in and around chimpanzee habitats. charlie: is this your proudest achievement? dr. goodall: i think that the achievement i am most excited about, that is one, but two, our youth program. because what is the point of

working to save the environment or anything else if the next generation will not be better stewards than we have been? what began with 12 high school students in tanzania is now in 98 countries. kindergarten through university. we have about 1500 active groups. it is changing attitudes. in china, everybody i met last time said of course we care about the environment. we were in your institute program in primary school. it is certainly changing attitudes in many other countries around the world. charlie: there are lots of articles now because of what is happening in terms of opposition to paris and other things. people point to china as taking the lead. dr. goodall: china announced it will take the lead. they are up at the top with solar. they want to do clean, green energy. charlie: and when? dr. goodall: they are doing it now. they are already ahead in solar energy. the silly thing is solar energy and all these other, wind and

tide, can provide hundreds of thousands of jobs. and it is sustainable. charlie: the technology is getting better. dr. goodall: better and better. it is already cheaper. charlie: than fossil fuel? dr. goodall: yes. governments keep supporting fossil fuel because of the money and corruption. the fact we have developed into a society -- charlie: cheap is always the vulnerability of fossil fuel. the launch forward was to make it cheaper. dr. goodall: which means destroying the environment. charlie: i'm talking about alternative fuels, alternative sources. when you can make the sun and wind and other alternative sources cheaper than fossil fuel, then you will win the game. dr. goodall: yes. and we could easily if subsidies went to the clean, green energy rather than fossil fuel industry. charlie: i'm also interested, too, companies like exxon mobil announced it is supporting when it came down the president

during the campaign was opposed to the paris agreement, exxon mobil announced they were in support of it. dr. goodall: yes, because they could see the writing on the wall. charlie: you have given up running your company. you have a c.e.o. who runs it for you? diane: no. i hired a chief creative officer. a wonderful, talented english man, scottish actually. and he is great. he has a lot of talent. he is young. he is excited. so, i have -- i really am supporting him to take over and bring it to the next whatever to focus on my third act. charlie: what is the third act? diane: my third act is to try to use -- when you get to be successful a little bit, you can pay your bills and you have a voice. i think it is imperative, it is

a privilege and duty to use your voice for people who have no voice or to connect with people with a voice in order to communicate and let those voices out so that we weave into a fabric of impact and compassion and results. charlie: are you in the midst of that third act now? diane: what do you mean? i hope i am at the beginning. [laughter] charlie: it didn't happen yesterday. this is the eighth year of these awards. diane: that's true. i want to spend more time in mentoring. you were talking about young people. it is so important to inspire young people. one of the other girls winning the award tomorrow, she has an organization. what she is doing is she is putting civics classes into

national schools. >> i want to spend more time in mentoring. you were talking about young people. it is so important to inspire young people. one of the other girls winning the award tomorrow, she has an organization. what she is doing is she is putting civics classes into national schools. that is so important, so important. and right now, actually, we have an opportunity because people are very confused on what is happening. it is very scary what is happening. we have an opportunity and window to let everybody say, ok, each one of us has a little bit of power. each one of us can affect somebody else. i know that you feel that way. everyone of us make an impact on the planet every day. charlie: together we have a huge impact. >> i truly believe only when head and heart work in harmony -- the trouble is, we are going to far with the head. meaning that we are making decisions based on how does this affect me? now, the next shareholders meeting, the next political campaign. rather than, what about the next generation? charlie: how far are we in terms

of the empowerment of women? >> we have certainly moved further than we were 50 years ago. we have a long way to go in some countries. it is getting better. charlie: you get the chance to appreciate is sort of the global impact of women and at the same time, the global struggle of women. >> it is incredible. my mother always told me i was lucky to be a woman. my mother was very much like that. when she referred to men, she always said "les pauvres." charlie: she said what? >> it means be nice to them. charlie: pat them on the head. nice boy, nice boy. >> that is the way i was raised. in fashion, to be a woman was

easy, and i never was like in a job that i competed with men, you know, on an equal base, and so on, so i never felt sad to them, but today, i do. today i feel like in so many ways, we have gone back. you know. >> one of the native american tribes says we see our people as an eagle, and one wing's mail and one wing is female, and we only achieve true potential when the two wings are equal and that i really like. charlie: tell me what your ambitions are now. dr. goodall: my ambition is to grow this youth program because involving young people. they choose projects to make the world better for people, animals, and the environment, but running through it is the theme of, you know, we need peace and harmony. we need to learn in peace and harmony between people of different nations, different

cultures, different religions, between us and the natural world, so it is very much creating a family of young people growing up and sharing the same values, and it began in 1991. there are a lot of people in leadership positions and i meeting them and they all say it changed us to be part of that program. >> repeat the name so people know of the program. dr. goodall: roots and shoots. you think of the big tree, starts as a seed. the little roots and the little chute, seems very weak, but those roots can push aside rocks and that shoot to reach the sun can break through brick walls, so we think of all the problems, environmental and social, as roots and shoots, hundreds and thousands. charlie: one of the great things in your life, the circumstances that created this mission with

respect to chimpanzees, the connection between you and chimpanzees. dr. goodall: the important thing there was really when i first began, it was thought that the difference between us humans and the rest of the animal kingdom was one of kind, and we were totally separate, totally unique, and totally superior. the chimpanzees are so like us biologically, i discovered, behaviorally, that science began to change the way it was thinking, and today, it is accepted by most that we are part of and not separated from this amazing, wonderful, and exciting -- charlie: long chain of human evolution? dr. goodall: yes. guest: is it true that it is only the humans that are not necessary to the chain? dr. goodall: i don't know about that. i never heard that said, but maybe the rest of the world

would do better without us. that is for sure. >> we actually have no function other than memory. dr. goodall: one of my reasons to hope is the resilience of nature and the indomitable human spirit, the people who tackle the impossible and succeed because they will not give up or get others to follow them. you know, the thing is, every single one of us has this indomitable spirit. we have just got to find ways to allow people to grow it, get out there. charlie: you are singing my song. let me tell you that. she knows from a long friendship. guest: no, i do not believe in the evilness at all. we have to believe. dr. goodall: it is not evil. it is lack of education and often, lack of awareness, lack of understanding, lack of confidence. when young people understand and we empower them to take action, roots and shoots is all about working out what you can do about something you care about, nothing i tell you to care about, something you care about. guest: you can change so much.

dr. goodall: you roll up your sleeves, get out together, and do it. it is empowering. charlie: great to see it. dr. goodall: thank you, charlie. it is good to see you again. ♪

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he is often also seen on concert stages and in the theater here in new york. what you may not know is that after production wrapped on the fifth and sixth season of homeland, he traveled to the refugee route to help with the ongoing humanitarian crisis there. this year, he and his wife catherine visit refugee camps in in lesbos and serbia. shortly after they escape their native syria. here is a look at their reunion. ♪ >> how long have you been here? >> two days. >> when do you plan to get on the boat to go to athens? >> we are waiting for someone to help us. we have a small bag with all our money in it. >> how are you?

good to see you. hello. hi. how are you? how are you? >> he said the first period in seven or eight months, it was difficult here, but now, it is getting better. >> just the gift of your example, of your courage, of your determination to care for your children and give them a better life. i saw death behind me and life ahead of me, and i go. >> [speaking in a foreign language] >> even in our country, it is difficult to have a similar

stable life, an apartment, and even to have human rights, but here, he feels like it is human. >> thank you. >> we just went back there a few days ago. we went back and we went to serbia, to camps in serbia, and we saw so many families just like yours that are looking to have this beautiful home and a new life, and to see you have this is so wonderful. and the whole world should make sure that every family has this. charlie: i am pleased to have mandy patinkin back at this table to talk about this issue. just talk about what we just saw. >> such a beautiful family.

they got off the boat in lesbos, they lost everything in the water, and they were stranded. i was able to help them get on the ferry and get to the train to go on the route and come to germany and have this beautiful home. their boys are in school. i said, is this the school? i love that her name is "safe." they said no it is not a school. it is an old age home. i said to her, because in germany, they would let you study german for two years, the grown-ups, before they require you to get a job. here, it is a little different. he said "no, it is an old age home." he is a decorator, so he did his kitchen and make that whole house so beautiful. i said, "when you finish your school for two years and are ready to get back in the workforce, are you going to be a decorator, an architect?"

"no, i want to work for the elderly, to take care of the elderly. that is my dream." charlie: that says who he is. mandy: "that is what i did for my father," he said. charlie: in the same vein, mandy patinkin, everybody would like to have him on their side. why refugees? what was it about these people that caused you to -- every time you finish homeland, to take the first flight out to visit? mandy: it is my family, our ancestors. it is all of america. they were refugees. they left the pogroms in poland. you are here because your ancestors were welcome. all of america is the product of

this country welcoming most people except for native americans, which is certainly its own story and african-americans, which is a very different story, but the rest, we are here because people were kind and generous and empathetic to the suffering that our ancestors experienced and the suffering these people are experiencing all over the world. the six-year war in syria is overwhelming. you know, to be awakened by the horrible images we have all seen this past week with the gas attack, i'm grateful that people are awakened, but why isn't it just as awakening to see children washing up on the beach , who thousands have drowned in trying to get from turkey to lesbos, greece? if you are so concerned for the children, which you should well be, then we need to find legal

options for these most vulnerable among us, these refugees that are fleeing this war, trying to find sanctuary in a third country. we need to give them legal options, and we have to stop these bans. these bans create havoc on the emotional landscape of their lives. 11,000 refugees right now are waiting to come to america who have already been to the most rigorous vetting progress imaginable. the united states of america, and i have studied this, is the gold standard of vetting. it is an 18 month to two-year process. you do not even get in the door vetted unless the unhcr field that you as an individual or family can make it through this process.

only then to begin it, and then it never in spiriends. you are vetted when you get on the plane, when you get off, the year later for your green card, five years later for citizenship, and the rest of your life, so the fact of the matter is the refugee community in the united states since 1975, 3 million refugees have come here. since 9/11, 900,000. not a single terrorist incident. these are the safest people among us. and we must know that and we must encourage our leaders, our members of congress, senate, our president, all over the world to know the truth and the facts, and what i gave you are the fact. they are not dangerous. of course you can improve the vetting process. charlie: how does you inform the political process so political decisions are not made that make a more difficult, especially to come from six designated countries? mandy: it is up to the voter and the citizenship.

you have to understand the power you have to influence your congressman, senator, your president. you make calls to your representatives. you tell them that you want the foreign aid and domesticated not to be cut as the new budget proposes. that that aid, being cut will cut the opportunities for visa resettle in to america and the opportunity just to keep them alive right now in these other countries. you need to know that this is trumped up fear to get your vote. it is the oldest trick in the book. if i tell you who to be afraid of, and is vilified a people, and in this case, it is the muslim population population , a that has made a contribution over time that is monumental, and yet we have vilified them to make people terrified. if i tell you you vote for me and i'll keep you safe, i'm just

giving you the fact. they are the most vetted people . before president trump was forgurated, obama asked 110,000 refugees to becoming, and that is worldwide. that is not just syria. trump was inaugurated and they brought it down to 50,000. i asked the administration to to consider that. ofolinecharlie cole and because photographs they saw this week? mandy: because of these other photographs. i have set a number of times before president trump was, you know, a new yorker, and gone to military school, a businessman, a billionaire, a politician, and a president, he is a human being. with children, and i'm certain that that humanity, which was ignited by those photographs the

other day, if he saw or came with us to these camps and met these children that i have met and talked to and then with, his heart would be overwhelmed with compassion and empathy. it is impossible to be alive, a breathing human being and not how that happened. he had that happen to him. it is so important -- and as side talk to my colleagues at the international rescue committee, now that that door has been opened, it is necessary for diplomacy to just explode everywhere. that effort has to be redoubled over and over again. charlie: your mission is? mandy: stop the conflict, stop two the killing. bring aid and help to these people. create legal options. let the united states be a guide and teacher to the countries in europe. germany is doing far more than their share. the countries in the european union like greece are so overwhelmed economically, and they are doing the lion's share of the work.

serbia, who is not even in the european union -- charlie: there is some political opposition, as you know. mandy: a great deal. we need to work together to help the european community improve their vetting process. germany has a decent process. they are doing their best. that process can always be made better, but don't say that american citizens are in danger. i have a dear friend who is one of the highest people in the evangelical community who says he meets his constituents in oklahoma who are weeping, grown-ups who are weeping, terrified that my head is going to be cut off. that is what they think, and it is not true. it is fake, false information. it is trumped up to make you terrified so that you get my vote. it happens their history all the time. learn that and learn the facts, and then call your representatives and say, i want these people taking care of, i want these walls to come down in the city's. i want to welcome these families to our country." as individuals, what else can

you do decide to let them know? there are 28 centers for refugee resettlement run by the irc. call one of them. invite this family to your community, to your house, your church, your synagogue, your mosque, your temple. invite them to your school. have them over for dinner. have a play date with your kids. can you imagine how they will feel when you listen to their story and listen to them? whatever the language barrier is. have some understanding how hard they are working. they are not just people who are struggling so hard. some of them are great scientists and students and doctors and lawyers and their careers have been wiped out from under them. charlie: we have pictures. i wanted to the audience to see them just to see the faces of the refugee world. what is this? mandy: that is a 10-year-old extraordinarily naturally gifted

artist who never had a single lesson in his life. i took him outside on a bench in belgrade and we did a facebook interview because i've never been on social media. my kids said, "dad, if you want , you have tord out use the internet." the videos we put to -- i said, "hopefully people will see this conversation we are having. is there something you want them to hear?" and he said, "yes, i would like them to know kindness, not just for me," he said, "but for refugees everywhere. we need kindness." from the mouth of babes. charlie: second picture. mandy: that is my wife, catherine, and i. those containers were not there one year ago. it was dirt roads and tents. it has improved because, unfortunately, that is as good a

refugee resettlement camp you might find anywhere in the world, but it needs to be put out of business. it has improved because it is no longer a transfer station. it possibly needs to be -- they may have to be there for god knows how long. so now they need funding and donations from all of these organizations. u.s. cut you can help. donate to these organizations, because they may not have to set up women's care programs, human rights programs, all the way down the list. charlie cole a continuing. charlie: continuing. mandy: that is a boy who learned impeccable english in 10 months. my wife said to him after he told us a story and he went through the woods and the jungle in the night, and i said to him, were you afraid of this journey? he said, "of animals and things in the dark, no. only of the police."

my wife gave him a journal because she said, when he finished talking, she said, "you are going to be a statesman. the way you articulate your people's journey in life, you need to write this story down, so i am going to get you a journal so you can begin writing. he said to me later in the day, "i like what your wife said to me. i'm going to do that." charlie: this one? mandy: that is a beautiful 18-year-old woman who has a three-month-old baby, and she wept speaking to my wife and myself, fought to talk to us. she taught farrad -- she is her english teacher. she found us later with the camera and said, "i want to tell my story." she said how people have violated her along her journey, but she was careful to say that there are good people here too.

in tears, she said, "all i want is an education for myself and my children." my wife and i looked at each other and we did not want to lie to her and get her false hope, so we just said to her, which we say to these people right now, "if you are here, you have a kind of strength and resistance that is something we are not even familiar with where i come from, and that strength has brought you to this moment, and i am sure you will find a way to survive this and have the life you desire, but that life life depends on the world community listening and helping these people. i went there to accumulate their stories, film them, put them down in my notes with photographs, so i could share their stories with the world so people will help. charlie: two more photographs here. mandy: these two little girls, nine and 11.

one wants to be a pediatrician and the other one wants to be a teacher, and they both said to me, we went through the iranian mountains to get to where we were going, and we had snow up to our necks. charlie: the next slide? mandy: that is abed. he called me grandpa. and then he brought us to meet his whole family. all the kids said, i want to be a doctor, i want to be a lawyer, i want to help children, i want to help people hurt in the war, and i look at my wife, there is a small video, one of the videos on our site, and i said, "you know, honey, this has been overwhelming, hearing all these stories, and listening to people, hoping we can do something by sharing their stories. i said, you know what i'm thinking. this has also been one of the great days of my life. i said, "because abed made me a grandpa." i had to come to a refugee camp

in syria to be made a grandpa. charlie: thank you, my friend, for all the people you are trying to help, too tell the story. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

alisa: i'm alisa parenti. let's start with a check of your bloomberg first word news. president trump kicked off the annual white house easter egg roll today. walking on the south lawn, reporters asked the president for his message to north korea after the failed missile test on saturday. >> any message for north korea? president trump: yes. got to behave. alisa: in europe, the top advisor to the french presidential candidate francois fillon says negotiations on the exit from the european union will likely take more than the two years estimated. the former french prime minister tells us he does not believe two years will be enough for