>> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. i am jeff floor, filling in for charlie rose. news out of the united kingdom. it prime minister theresa may declared that she would call an early general election on june 8. the move reflects an apparent effort to give the prime minister more flexibility in pending negotiations to exit the or brexit.ion it is also a sudden reversal from the previous position that the country needed time to ensure stability with the issue it is facing.

the house of commons will vote whether to approve the election. the editor-in-chief of bloomberg. columnist ands. commentator for the financial times. welcome, both of you, to the latest chapter in the soap opera that is brexit. let me start with you. how surprising is this? >> it is quite surprising. this is the best kept secret in british politics. if it had been david cameron or tony blair, it would have been leaked out. it would have been hard to keep . secret theresa may is a different kind of character. it is not surprising in another sense.

she had her hone mandate. she did campaign for remain. she was probably where many or out people in the eu of it. out of the eu with heads and hearts. mandate and her own increases the slim conservative majority. if she can claim her own authority to pursue brexit negotiations her own way. it gives her independent standing. in that sense, it is not a surprise. but it was a brilliantly kept secret. jeff: fundamentally, which is why she's doing this. >> there is a strong element of self-interest. she will characterize this on behalf of the country and the country needs to back some

version of brexit but she is doing it with that in mind. she has a slim majority. the thing that is unclear as if she ends up with a bigger tory majority which is what we all think will happen. we could all be wrong. , itming that does happen should be good for her. to get things through parliament easier, it means your chances of keeping them all in order. and the underlying problem of this is the tories and europe. the tories have the same sort of approach to europe as the republican party here does for abortion. isy think that main danger being selected by the local party. it than being beaten by the labour party. jeff: as you say, what we have expected to happen hasn't always happened.

edeven people as clever as and me have gotten it complete we wrong. >> if we talk about june and the opposite of what you mentioned might happen to does happen, what position does that put theresa may in? is in a position where she doesn't have much. she has a tiny majority and tiny keeps on to a majority. she wants to play with the timing of it. in continental europe, the other side of the big negotiation of brexit is you have the french election. you've got the parliamentary election. merkel's election. she has this period declared at the start of the process. for the next few months, nothing has been happening. she hopes to replenish the political supplies.

the conservatives do have a significant amount of support in the polls today. is there a sense that has continued to surge? that is not clear. there is one party in britain, the liberal democrats, that unambiguously want a second .eferendum to reverse brexit and that is what they will campaign on. tony blair is a labor prime minister and has indicated today that he will probably campaign with the liberal democratic party. pulls --entioned, lls shery 20 point lead. were wrong elections quite a lot lately. not just brexit where the narrow -- more agree justly, the last general

election in which labor was shown as being that and neck with the conservatives. and labor was absolutely obliterated on the day. it is a very volatile picture. john mentioned france. jean-luc, the far left french leader that can be compared possibly to jeremy corbyn, the shambolic labour party leader. or fourowhere three weeks ago. pulling single digits. he has surged up to strong double-digit digits out of the blue. that's in the space of three or four weeks. got six weeks between now and the british general election. and a lot can happen in this kind of volatile environment. i wouldn't bank on the theresa may massively increasing her majority scenario. john: what she wants, she wants flexibility.

to say, trust me. i'm the person that will oversee the brexit thing. at this precise moment, she wants to say as little as possible other than "trust me." pledgestarts making like brexit will guarantee the following things, and they don't appear, she is setting up a massive headache for herself later. the opposition is so useless that she can get that mandate through now. ,f she gets pushed gradually she will have this very hard-core pre-brexit group in the party saying that we mustn't allow x. weshouldn't pay money when go. it gives her very little wiggle room. it is likely she will come back from brussels with a bad deal for britain. she will probably say, that's the best i can get. it will not be an easy sell. jeff: this is the hard exit versus the soft, the more

accommodations from the eu being given. stand two months away or less from this election. we are 10 months removed from brexit. the ramifications are still going on. , it in the halcyon days looks like the tories were very secure and karen was likely to get the referendum and push forward. politics have become incredibly volatile. jeff: one word for it. the polls are volatile as well. if you are forecasting timewise removed. are 10 months if there is an expectation that this is going to be a hard or soft exit here, how hard is britain looking at? got to be two's years to negotiate the actual divorce agreement. that is the article 50 triggered in march. but in terms of negotiating a substantial trade deal with

europe that includes all the thorny questions about freedom of movement, of peoples. if the court of justice has a role. it could take many years beyond the next election. in terms of john's point, she wants to give away as little as possible in this campaign. she is refusing to debate jeremy corbyn. it won't be any tv debates. she doesn't want to open her mouth. corbyn is held in very low regard. the best thing to do is just avoid it. she might get away with no debates but if she gets dragged into a debate or narrowly , she has the majority to guarantee things to her back to benches about what she wouldn't say. there is a narrative building up in british politics,

particularly among the right-wing press. the conservative party that says, basically, no deal on brexit is better than a bad deal. convincing, but it means britain would immediately have to jump back to operating with wto rules. they are making the point that in two.nd is divided if we end up with a barrier between one half and the other, it will be very difficult if there is no kind of free trade deal to cover how people get ards or forwards. she has taken the position that she can come back stronger to be able to do these things. everything else is a bit of risk. jeff: i appreciate both of your time. ♪

jeff: we turn to a battle waged in arkansas over the death healthy. the u.s. bring court rejected request by the arkansas attorney general to carry out the first debate planned executions by the end of the month. he decision comes after a week of last-minute appeals, state and federal debates over the lethal injection drugs, and continued questions about the ethics of capital punishment.

hundreds of anti-death penalty advocates converged on the rock on friday to: governor asa hutchinson to held the planned executions. the stock of lethal injection drugs expire. joining us are damien a coles, a member of the so-called west memphis three. he spent 18 years in prison on death row after being wrongly convicted of murder. he was released in 2011. lori davis again correspondence and is now anti-death penalty. partnerd is a founding of a law firm and spent a lot of time on this issue. i am pleased to welcome all of them to this table. thank you for being here. damien, i want to start with you. 18 years on death row. it you know all of the men currently scheduled for execution right now. when this came up, you went to little rock last week.

when this all first crop to back up again, what were your thoughts? >> i was horrified. we got a call from the woman that runs the arkansas coalition and told lori that they were having a gathering there to protest the executions. they asked if i would come there. my first thought was no. it was a nightmare for me. i was thinking it would probably traumaticond most thing to ever happen to me in my life to have to return back there to where people tried to kill me. second after actually being sent to death row. the more i thought about it, i couldn't sleep at night because i can't just sit here and not try to dond and anything while they are killing these guys. even after i made the decision, i would go back and forth. i would tell myself have got to do this. i would regret it for the rest of my life if i don't do this. then i would wake up having

panic attacks and feeling like i was having a heart attack. i would tell her i can't go. until maybe the very last minute and i knew this was something i had to do. it was trying and horrific. jeff: it was the first sort of substantial visit where you had to talk to folks and maybe see some of the folks you hadn't seen in so long. damien: absolutely. this was the thing that kept going through my mind. these people tried to murder me for something i didn't do. they knew i didn't do this. after dna testing came out, i sat for two years while they tried to keep from admitting they made a mistake. more thanle were willing to murder me and not lose a night's sleep over it. what if they do something else? what if they try to send me back again?

that was what i was wrestling with in an attempt to return to the state. jeff: i want to talk about your back story and what happened to you starting in the early 90's in a moment. at first, i want to talk about what is happening right now and what you were there to talk about on friday. davis scheduled the subject of discussion right now. davis very well. tell me about him. damien: i knew don for the entire time i was in prison. he got there before i did. prison, you don't really develop friendships the way you do in the outside world. the best thing you can hope for is establish an understanding with someone that, no matter out forpens, we look each other. were times i honestly do not think i would have survived in prison. i would not be sitting here if

not for him looking out for me. for other people that are pro-death penalty, these guys are stories they read in the newspaper and things they saw on television. these are flesh and blood people i live with for almost 20 years. jeff: we should mention don davis admits his guilt. a terrible thing he did. if they would have executed him the day after, he would have felt like it was a just execution. he killed a woman in the process of a home invasion. the family of the victim is upset right now. they want this to happen. further frustrated by delays. what do you say to that? damien: i understand your pain. i don't want to downplay any sort of trauma or anything else you are going through. i understand it completely. that desire for vengeance. keep in mind i had people tried

to murder me. i would like to see them held accountable. i would like to see them held responsible for what they did. i don't believe death is ever the answer to anything. you also have to keep in mind that the system is run by human beings. human beings are fallible and make mistakes. when you cast a net this wide and you start executing this many people, a conveyor belt of death, you will catch innocent people in that that. innocent people will die along with the guilty ones. i don't think executing is ever going to ease anyone's pain. tof: david, i want to talk you about the death penalty. the number of executions has been down. asa hutchinson says he has to do this now or wants to do this now because the stock of the drug that they use is going to run out. why is it running out? why is the governor doing it at this time? fewer and fewer companies

want to be participating in the death process. are two important problems with the death penalty. if the state, the people, society should be putting anybody to death. clearlynd, as this illustrates, the death penalty is applied to a lot of innocent people. and there is nothing that you can think of that society can do that is more troubling and consciously putting to death and be innocent.erson

poor people, the people of color, disadvantaged people. what they face is something that ought to give everybody on about the death penalty. you about thek drug in question we are talking about? the governor says they will run out of it. drug companies don't want to be in this business. what is it intended for? lorri: it is an analgesic. the reason it exists is to calm people down so that they are in a relaxed state. extremely prohibit painful situations like when someone has a needle put into their arm. in many cases, it caused a great deal of pain on these botched executions when men are lying on a table gasping for breath. isis said that this death one of the most painful deaths because they feel as if they are burning up from the inside.

literally burning. and this drug does not prohibit that pain. problem, also, because in arkansas's case, they have closed the procedure. the general public has no knowledge of how this drug is being administered. it is an employee doing it and in many cases, not even a medical doctor. as the doctors, same drug companies, are not interested in killing people. big problem because people don't know how to administer it. it's not doing what people think it's supposed to do, prohibiting the pain. it is a problem. mind these keep in drugs were never meant to be used to kill people. it's not what they were designed for. it was designed to help people with illness, sickness, people that need surgery.

that's what they were designed for. the state tries to convey this image for the general public. it's like putting an animal to sleep. a go to sleep and it is over. there are cases where they had to give men up to 15 doses of this medicine to not amount and it still took them over two hours to die. they laid on the table gasping, forhing, and twitching hours. after receiving 15 doses of the medication. jeff: talk about where the case stands and other death penalty cases stand. david: each case is a little bit different. each case in arkansas is different. some people are claiming innocence. ame people are claiming mental -- a level of mental awareness that makes it inappropriate to put them to death. some of them are simply opposed

to the death penalty under any circumstance. each case is different. but what you see is a series of legal challenges to the death penalty. some of them proceed on the argument that any imposition of the death penalty is a cruel and unusual punishment. violative of the constitution. some proceed on the basis from a legislative standpoint. legislatures should not make the decision to put people to death. there are a hand, number of people that can oppose the death penalty right now that believe that if you had a perfect system, there are crimes that deserve the death penalty. we don't have a perfect system. we don't have an all seeing judge that can understand what the truth is.

we have imperfect to and imperfect juries. and we have imperfect lawyers. the disadvantaged, the poor, the discriminated against, they have the worst lawyers and the greatest suspicion. they are the most likely people to get put to death. jeff: right, so if the drug and medical professionals don't want to be connected to this regardless of the moral debate here. if the drug companies and the medical professionals don't want , it makeslved in this the states job increasingly more difficult.

makes you wonder why you continue to pursue it. and how often it is being pursued right now. >> it not being pursued now as much as it has in the past. part for those reasons and the doubts about the efficacy and morality and the fairness of the death penalty. there are a number of people on and as a right now, society, keeping them there in this kind of limbo is not the right thing to do either. decisions as a society, what kind of society we are going to be. part of that is facing up to the reality. whatever the theoretical desirability would be in a have itsystem, we won't and we probably can't have it. under those circumstances, people have to re-examine how many innocent people we are

prepared to put to death in order to get vengeance on certain guilty ones. take me back to west memphis, arkansas. the grisly murder of three young boys. best of friends. how to theed? authorities turn their attention to you? what happened next? in 1993, the year i was arrested, i lived in a very small town called west memphis, arkansas. an extremely conservative, fundamentalist, hard-core christian. i really did not fit in in this neighborhood. they considered me suspicious because of the way i looked in the first place. that is what they used as evidence against me. i listened to heavy metal music and i had books by stephen king. i dressed in black.

these things, in their mind, proved i was a satanist. it would've taken a satanist to commit these crimes in their minds. in 1993, they could not do the same sort of dna testing they can do now. when they can finally do the dna testing, they found that not only did the dna not match me or the other two men they had convicted of it, it matched one of the victim's family members. three eyewitnesses saw the same person matched within an hour of the time they were murdered. these people were never even talked to even though they lived right there in very close proximity. in essence, what happened was, the police picked up a mentally handicapped child who was 17 years old. he operated along the

intellectual level of an eight to 10-year-old. and over 12 to 14 hours, they tortured and battered a confession out of this guy. he could not get the details of the crime scene right, but they didn't care. the only thing that mattered was that they got him to say yes, he did it. and he implicated me and the other two men. even after the dna came to light, people in society have this idea because of the shows they watched on tv that you have is over.e person -- it that is not necessarily true. .hat is 50% of the battle they will still kill you and sweep it under the rug unless the outside world is paying attention. the is the other 50% of battle. getting people to notice what is going on. jeff: the odd kid in school. we are looking for something,

for a reason to do something like this to you. damien: one of the police, as soon as they found the body, it was in a very wooded area submerged in water. one of the police later said that he said as soon as they found the bodies, it looks like damien echols finally did it. because you listened to metallica, did not act like everybody else in town. damien: i read stephen king novels. ever since i was really young, i really loved western issa terraces him, ceremonial magic. anything that is not fundamentally christian is automatically satanic to them. it put a bull's-eye on my back. jeff: they said these were called killings. the timet was during in the late 80's and early 90's were you have this thing going on that is now called satanic panic. you had people all over this

country sitting in prison because you had huge shows like geraldo rivera and oprah winfrey that were doing shows on this topic. thousands of human sacrifices were taking place across the country every year. they had no evidence to support this. nobodies were ever found. it was still accepted as gospel. not only in arkansas at that time but throughout the country. jeff: tell me more about your time in prison. i know it damaged your eyesight badly which is why you are wearing the shades. ?here did you spend your time you began writing a book at some point. this affected you in different ways. talk about that a little bit. damien: it affects you on a bunch of levels. i was in prison for almost 20

years. the last eight years was in solitary confinement 14 hours a day. i did not see sunlight for almost a decade which is what started destroying my vision. i had a list of health problems when i got out because there's almost no medical care, no dental care. they will not spend time and energy taking care of someone they plan on killing. i had a long road just trying to get my health back to normal. the thing that i think helped me kept me from helped losing my sanity, you have to find some thing to focus on other than the prison. or you will go insane. does things were meditation, energy work, and lorri. i had a zen master that would come back and forth from japan to the prison. i received ordination in the tradition of japanese buddhism.

washe time i got out, i doing eight hours of meditation a day. as crazy as it sounds, i wouldn't even think about the walls around me. booksthinking about the we were reading together or the conversations we were having when we were allowed to see each other once a week. or the 15 minute phone call we had that morning. it created a world i was able to live in that gave me enough of a buffer zone from the prison. it did not completely and absolutely break me inside the way it would have others. ,nd it came close, many times to absolutely destroying me. even when i got out, people think that you going to be happy and excited you are out of risen. you are on a certain level. but you are also completely crippled. when i walked out of prison after almost 20 years, the last time i had seen a computer was 1986. and it was a glorified typewriter for rich people.

it wasn't connected to the internet. that sort of thing. i went from almost a decade of solitary confinement tthe streets of manhattan literally overnight. everyone uses computers, everyone uses atm machines and debit card readers. things that i had no idea how to use. for me, it was almost like being an alien dropped off in a completely new world and expected to find my way without any instruction, any help, anything. it devastated me to the point that i needed someone with me 24 hours a day, seven days a week. almost like i was an invalid. i can barely remember my first year out of prison because i was so psychologically devastated. it destroyed something in me. in prison, i was a voracious reader. i would read five books a week. i could no longer read. i would try to read the same page over and over and could not retain what i was reading when i

got to the bottom of the page. i could not watch movies or television. i would introduce myself to the same person to were three times even if i had dinner with them than i previously. .t destroyed me i am only starting to become even remotely normal. it remotely feeling like myself again in the last year. jeff: it can be easy for you to hear him say things like that. lorri: it's not. i mean, it was devastating. when he got out, i did not know what i was doing. there is no handbook on how to help someone who has severe ptsd. i really didn't know what i was doing and i fell like i failed him so many times. we were traveling for the first two years constantly because he had a book. we had a documentary we felt

compelled to get the story out. that is one of the things i have come to realize. there are so many people in this world dealing with extreme trauma. those of us that don't know how to deal with it, it's just -- it is extraordinarily difficult. it is sad to see someone suffering. someone you love. it you can't reach them. started going to therapy. it has helped immensely. would have never been able to go down to arkansas any sooner than this. situation, ifthe you can call it good timing. point finally got to the that he had the strength to do this. is one thing talking about this issue on a macro level and dealing with some of the bigger stories. but there is also the personal

part of this. issue is that every single person on death row is an individual. every single person on death row has a story. a human story. some of them, we know, are innocent. we don't know which ones. we can prove which ones. dna is helping. all dna really does is show us how many mistakes we have made in the past. and everybody there has some story to tell. of the problems is we too often look at the death penalty in an abstract way. we don't look at it as something that applies to an individual. think about vengeance. we think about justice. we think about a life for a life. we make ourselves not think about it. if what we are doing is doing it

to an individual. we are doing it to a person. with parents, children, a spouse. a life, hopes and dreams. just like us. some of them are just like us because they are innocent just like us. argument andte's governor hutchinson's argument is that we have an obligation to the family. in particular, the most immediate case. he at knowledge to his guilt. he was convicted. vengeance wants their . so we have to do it for them. i think governor hutchinson is in a very difficult place. he is the governor. he has the laws to enforce. he has somebody that is an admitted murderer that under the law, is to be sentenced to death. the problem is not what governor hutchinson is doing. the problem is the law.

choices are particularly complicated when you deal with someone you know is guilty. on the other hand, there are extenuating circumstances. the difference between the crime that committed the and the person that exist right now. the person in that position is in a complicated and difficult decision. i don't criticize him. i sympathize with what he's going through. jeff: you said the state of arkansas is salivating. in your words. to carry out the executions. did you get the sense when you went back there that the government was surprised at the

reaction that this god? not just around the country but around the world? they are mildly surprised. i think it made them even more determined, it seems like. i barely got any sleep last night because i was up until midnight watching the back-and-forth battle of whether they were going to execute don davis are not. surprised and a little uncomfortable with the scrutiny they are getting. but it hasn't lessened their bloodlust. they are pushing as hard as they can to see people killed. keep in mind that we are talking about -- this is a story that has a lot of new wants to it. -- nuance to it. talking about an individual as opposed to an abstract concept. he has been in prison for 25 years. this is not the same man sentenced to these crimes. he wrote a letter where he said the state can't kill the person

that committed those crimes because i executed the person that committed those crimes myself. we were talking together and this man breaks down crying. it was like watching somebody's soul crack open. he had been telling me every single day that it had eaten him alive. it's all he can think about. this was a man that new remorse to his soul. not remorse because he felt bad about what was happening to him. , soul eatingincere remorse for what he had done and could never take back. again, it is not an abstract concept. these are real people they are putting to death. ♪

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switch to comcast business. with high-speed internet up to 10 gigabits per second. you wouldn't pick a slow race car. then why settle for slow internet? comcast business. built for speed. built for business. jeff: you came to know a number of celebrities to the course of your case who were instrumental in keeping your case in the spotlight. you stay in touch with them. at johnny depp, eddie vedder, people that might be familiar with a lot of them. i wonder, as you try to keep this in the spotlight, i wonder you you have learned as spent time with them. peter jackson as well. you made the movie with the filmmaker. from them anded

what lessons you learned trying to navigate keeping the case in the public eye? damien: i guess what i've as the, as abstract sound, how to be a better person. people that had nothing to gain by supporting me. talking about people who already, by most standards, are wealthy. people that were famous and stretching their neck out for me with nothing to gain. it made me see the value in doing that for other people. , iit wasn't for johnny depp honestly do not think i would've been able to go back to arkansas. i was too terrified and horrified. are getting ready to kill these guys in arkansas, guys that i've known for 20 years. some are innocent. some are mentally ill. would you please go down there

with meac co he wrote back immediately -- with me? he wrote back immediately and said you throw the ball and i will catch it. he went out there and he spoke. he asked the government of arkansas, please don't kill these people. that was my stance, too. when i went down to say to the government is that we completely lost faith in you for everything. we don't even expect basic necessities like health care. the only thing i'm asking you is to stop killing people. johnny was willing to stand with me. i don't think i could have done it otherwise. ofp in mind that a lot people do to television shows and movies, things of that nature, they think dna testing is a given. if there is dna, it will be tested. that is not true. had to pay every single penny to get this dna testing done.

we had to pay over $200,000 because the state would cover none of it. they were going to kill me and never tested dna. i was poor white trash from a trailer park. if it wasn't for people like johnny, eddie, peter jackson, henry rollins, natalie main -- people don't have money. they may very well die even though there is dna testing. and they also likely don't understand the law. youthere a moment where were going to be executed because your lawyers didn't realize they had to file a stay? damien: my original execution date was may 5 of 1994. i got closer to that because i had really an effective public defenders that didn't realize they had to file a motion and ask for a stay of my execution. i thought it would be given automatically. i got closer than i should have

because i had completely ineffective attorneys. david: what you need is anyone of 50,000 lawyers that somebody -- it's not just the lawyers. it's having the money to do the testing. do the investigation. find the witnesses. if someone is means is in that position, if they have the money . and they have the money to hire a good lawyer. , a groupody who's poor that is discriminated against.

they have the resources -- they don't have the resources to defend themselves. that is one of the problems with capital punishment. it is applied in such a discriminatory way. if you are poor, african-american, you are much more likely to be put to death then if you are a rich white person. even if you do exactly the same thing. and that is something that ought to trouble even people who theoretically favor the death penalty. are doing is we putting innocent people to death. based on wealth and status and race, that determines who gets the death penalty. somethingen, you took called the -- can you tell me exactly what this means?

it would sound pretty confusing to the layman. damien: i had never even heard of it. means, ialfred plea still haven't been exonerated. no one on death row has ever been exonerated. they still maintain that they are infallible and have up perfect record and would never kill an innocent person. that is part of the deal. an alford plea means that i am able to maintain my innocence while accepting a guilty plea. it makes no sense whatsoever. it boggles the mind that such a thing exist. it means the state can't be held accountable for what they've done. but now you have a lot of airplay and recognition. we have heard more and more stories across the country where more and more states are using this to keep from having to pay out huge sums of money. in the documentary, the main concern is that they have guys

that spend 20 years in prison .ach the financial restitution would be $20 million each. $60 million to pay out. towas his way of not having pay that. i can't sue the state. they can maintain they haven't put an innocent person on death row. life goes on. jeff: is the case technically open? damien: the minute they arrested me, the case was closed. they told me when we took this plea, the prosecutor swore to us that he would be willing to look at it. he would have an open mind and open the case. it has proved absolutely false. him,thing we have given to he has completely refused to look at. as far as he's concerned, the case is closed. damien: the initial investigation and the arrest itself, how that was all handled

, how different our cases handled today? unfortunately, there are still people like damien who are suspected for reasons independent of what they've actually done. they don't have the resources to hire a good attorney. they don't have the resources to find witnesses and get dna testing. there are people going through what damien went through. ast will be the case as long we have a justice system that depends as much as it does on the adversary system. goode got to have a lawyer. and that lawyer has to have the resources to do an investigation. these are factual, intensive cases. many of them are very good lawyers. but they don't have the resources to give the kind of

defense people are entitled to. jeff: you exhausted bank accounts. you took out personal loans. lorri: it was a nightmare and i found myself in a position that i did not know what i was doing. i'm a landscape architect by training. i'm not a lawyer. i ended up with the help of the people we've been talking about. johnny. i have to say fran walsh, peter jackson's partner came on board in 2005. that woman would make a great defense attorney. she would make a great investigator. i can't even believe she was in the middle of making king kong, the film. she is researching for an sick scientists, lawyers, and investigators. me to go through trash. i was going through trash to

find hair, picking up trash in memphis and driving to courthouses all over that region to just track down who possible suspects were. i had no idea how much. toprobably raised $6 million $7 million to get damien, jason kelly out of-- prison. i depended on people around me to give me the information i needed and we probably went through 10 lawyers. legally,ediately and the spotlight is obviously on what happens next. david: yes. and several things are happening. for example, the arkansas supreme court gave a stay of execution to one individual case. and there will be scrutiny with respect to individual cases. in addition, you have the overall issue.

does arkansas have a way of putting people to death? that is killing people constitutionally acceptable? what is the consequence of using these particular drugs? are there other drugs that will be available? those kinds of questions will have to be decided at the legislative level and at the judicial level. jeff: talk about how difficult it is for you to go back. if it comes to that, would you go back again? haven: i don't feel like i a choice. i feel like i have to. if i just sat by and did nothing while the state of arkansas put these people to death, then i would regret it for the rest of my life. it is something i would never be able to forget. not only because these are people that i knew. i know these are intellectually challenged people. i know these are mentally handicapped people. some are probably innocent. done to me, i am not comfortable being governed by a government that has awarded

itself the right to kill its own citizens. something about that is just wrong. trying to kill people to show that killing is wrong makes as much sense makes is much sense as raping someone to show that raping his long. it is illogical. the reasons people put forth are completely erroneous. there is no truth to them whatsoever. that it costs more to keep someone in prison for life. or that it is a deterrent. there are no statistics at all to show that the death penalty is a deterrent. as a matter of fact, you have crime spikes after an execution occurs. there is no reason to carry out the death penalty whatsoever other than pure vengeance. jeff: damien echols, lorri d avis, david boies, thank you for being here. ♪

♪ >> u.s. stocks on the retreat with the dow at its lowest close in two months. oil slumping on the dollar, gaining strength. >> the latest survey continues to see growth although it is described as modest moderate at best. announcing ason review of the iran nuclear deal. delaysly delay is -- their ambitions. tighter controls on live streaming apps.