♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: president trump marks his 100th day in office on saturday. despite an ambitious agenda, he will not be celebrating legislative victories. he does have a confirmation for supreme court justice. the next vote on his health care plan has been pushed off to avoid another government shutdown. joining me is maggie haberman of the "new york times" and cnn. i want to start with this about you. this is what dylan byers wrote in a cnn profile of you. "there may be no reporter trump respects and fears more than haberman. he returns to her to share his

thinking and participate in interviews." that was the buzzfeed editor in chief ben smith. maggie: i don't know the president would agree with his opening description. and i don't want to speak for him. i think two things are true. i have known him for a long time. i covered him at politico and the "new york post." longevity matters with him and the familiar matters with him. i also don't think anyone should make any mistake. if i didn't have the phrase the "new york times" attached to my name, i am not sure i would be speaking to him as frequently. he is fascinated by "the new york times," and i understand

why. charlie: what is that about? he has said in front of audiences, "i love the 'new york times.'" the next words out of his mouth are, "the failing 'new york times.'" maggie: he came to our offices on 40th street and 8th avenue after being elected. we were the first major interview he did. he came to us. we did not go to him. that was the subject of some debate. that meeting was scrapped and then put back on. as is often the case with trump, there was negotiation up until the last second. he grew up in new york. he grew up in the outer boroughs. he still sees himself that way. he plopped himself down in this giant gold tower he built 30 years ago and still never felt he has gotten the respect he believes he deserves. he has always seen himself as this kid from queens clawing his way up the ladder. for him, "the times" looms very large. charlie: in addition to that there is somebody always

, questioning whether he is worth this or that. maggie: and how he made it. and did he come to this on his own. how much of this was given to him by his father versus how much he managed to create as a business unto himself and as a brand unto himself. this question of legitimacy exists throughout his career. charlie: where does this win-win-win thing come from? maggie: it comes from his dad. he has two mentors. one is fred trump, his father, who taught him never give up, always win. and roy cohn, who taught him always be on offense and that all press is good press. to be clear, i don't think donald trump believes all press is good press although i have heard him say a lot. -- say it a lot. i think he believes press is incredibly important. charlie: but winning is what matters to him. maggie: selling something as a

win whether you won or not. the thing that is fascinating about him is it is very difficult as a president, to be clear. you're not going to have agreement on a shared set of facts with this president sometimes. we saw this a lot during the campaign. he will present numbers that are just not true about crowd size or the effects of his policies or when something took place. and when you challenge him on it, he will say that is what i read somewhere or someone sent me that. it is never his own domain. he does not own it. he does not take proprietary feel for it. a win is what he decides it is. that is his challenge now. how do i tell the public a 100-day presidency where his poll numbers and personal approval rating has been around 40%, where he has historic

unfavorability, where he has been stymied by a congress where his party has the majority, in both houses, how do i sell that as victory? charlie: you pointed this out. he sells it as this is an artificial landmark, artificial standard. the next thing he does is everything he can to make himself look good by the judgment of abstaining. -- of that standard. maggie: he is a smart man. this is something he gets dinged for. i don't think a series of interviews he gave this past week necessarily served him well. he gave a bunch of 100-day interviews where he said things that candidly made my jaw drop that i will get to later. i think he is aware it is an important marker. he is also very numbers fixed. he is a visual learner, that is the term you hear about kids.

i don't know he is a visual learner but he likes numbers, charts, and television. charlie: he likes listening to things rather than reading things. maggie: he likes to take things in through his ears. he likes to see a picture. that is how he absorbs. he knows the media in d.c. is obsessed with the 100-day marker. it is not an appropriate metric but it is still one that gets used. it started with f.d.r. and has worn out its utility, but it is still basically the benchmark by which you can sort of do a concurrent with other presidents. charlie: does he know if the facts are wrong that he is lying? maggie: i don't want to profess to be in his head. when i have interviewed him, there are times when it seems clear to me he knows what he has just said is not true. and then there are other times where i am not sure he knows. for instance, he did this in an

interview with someone recently who was not me. he will sometimes change the number of something he has just described. the 59 tomahawk missiles that were dropped in syria became 79 in the next sentence. i was on the phone with him in 2011. they all blur together now. it might have been 2015. he increased his worth from one sentence to the next. i don't even knew that he knew he was doing it. there were other times you call him of something and he will -- on it, he will acknowledge it is not quite right. it depends on the moment. the challenge with him is you are never going to know which is which. for instance, take what happened this past week with nafta and him claiming he was on the brink of withdrawing the u.s. from nafta. nevermind that he cannot

summarily do that. but suddenly at the last minute, he was pulled back by canada and mexico rushing at him and cabinet secretaries. we are never going to know how much of that was him really being there or maybe it was just brinkmanship. charlie: he also talks about things as if he is always the greatest. everything is the best, the greatest. that comes out of his book in one instance. maggie: "art of the deal" it is in there. charlie: so it is just a strategy for him. maggie: i think that's right. it's a tactic. i think he is a very unusual combination of incredibly confident and incredibly insecure. charlie: i know a lot of people like that. maggie: everything is heightened with him. it is not that it is unusual. bill clinton had that, too. there are elements of this presidency stylistically that i think the closest recent analog is bill clinton in terms of seeking constant outside input.

charlie: i have had some say other than clinton, he is the best political animal they've ever seen. maggie: he is remarkable in being able to make people feel like he is speaking just to them. charlie: a conversation in the room rather than a speech. maggie: people felt like when he was tweeting the last several years, he really came through like he was speaking just to them. he says enormously controversial things. his words have helped foment a lot of anger and hate. he has said and done things for which he has refused to apologize. he did not create the political divide but he has exacerbated and show no impulse to reach across the aisle. what gets missed in all the description of that is how one on one or in his rallies he can be very charming, funny. he is very quick.

that is why he does so well. charlie: and he's very interested in you. maggie: he is very interested in engaging in the details of your life. he will usually retain some of them. not always. but he is very good, for someone home and that the doesn't roll empathy does- not come naturally and i do , think he has struggled with this, he does seem to be focused on whoever he is focused on. part of what is fascinating for people about that is he is a celebrity. they know him as a celebrity. it feels like the sun is shining on you. this is the description i have had people give to me at rallies. that is a huge asset. charlie: how long has he wanted to be president? maggie: i think since before he wrote "the art of the deal." [laughter] that year -- charlie: bush 41, we now know he had someone go talk to him about being the vice presidential running mate. maggie: there is a belief he has been interested in the

presidency far longer than 1987, 1988. that is the first time it is clear publicly he was doing anything that looked political in that regard. it is funny. to understand him, people do need to read "the art of the deal." i don't want to sound like a promo for. it is really all there. the first person that ever said that to me was newt gingrich. i had read the book. newt gingrich read his books as a way to understand him. it was effective. trump is very much warn of a -- born of a certain moment in new york city, the 1980's and 1990's. he is this almost strange nationalized amalgamation of ed koch and rudy giuliani. these two very, very hyper engaged, hyper social, different types of governing styles, mayors. ed koch was the "how my doing" mayor. trump does a version of that. charlie: he admires general mattis a lot.

somehow, the military, those people who have done well and seemed like winners, he is very attracted to and seems to give them a capacity to influence him, even to make decisions on the spot. maggie: i think that is the part that has been a relief to people. if you look at the wins this president has had in the first 100 days, there are not many that you can point to as protein as opposed to carbs. i would put many executive orders in the cards category. carbs category. charlie: that's a nice way to put it. maggie: in addition to getting the supreme court justice through, although they had to change the senate rules, he has empowered tillerson, mattis -- mcmaster and kelly to a much greater degree than people thought he would. and he has allowed himself to be influenced by them. the concern was -- trump is not just admiring of the military.

there's almost a fetishistic thing about generals. charlie: figures of authority. he said the same thing about putin, people like that. maggie: there was a real note of concern and an understandable one during the campaign. he was continuing to praise authoritarians. we have never seen this in a modern-day nominee. maggie: charlie: it back to all kinds of articles about fascism. maggie: correct. our system is not used to this. the concern was, does somebody who has such a predilection for making the military big and seem grand and strength and these characteristics, what does that mean about how he will govern? it has not really meant that much. he has so far, in foreign policy, governed as a traditional republican. charlie: because he chose people who reflected that point of view. and those who did not work on

-- were gone soon. maggie: flynn was gone ostensibly because he lied to the vice president. charlie: at the same time, he had an attitude about the military because he had been fired. maggie: correct. he had played to the -- flynn played to what were considered to be trump's worst instincts. that having been said, trump and other advisors in the west wing had long ago began to lose faith in flynn well before the transcript issue and line to the -- lying to the vice president. charlie: why did they lose faith? maggie: they felt he was erratic. they felt he was controlling. it was some of the same reasons obama's advisors complained about him. there was an incident with flynn's son where he became a problem and had to be fired. the president does not like firing people, despite the "you

are fired," tagline. the president does not like absorbing negative press because of other people. charlie: don't bring your rain on to me. maggie: correct. regardless of whether he brings his reign on to other people, he does not want their rain on him. flynn used up a couple of his lives by the time he was done. charlie: here's what intrigues me about him. he is constantly reaching out by phone and personal conversation, whatever the means, to ask people, what do you think of this or that, what should i do? that is married with what he sees on television and how what he sees on television informs him. those are his primary means of absorbing information and intelligence. i am asking that. maggie: it is true. i'm trying to process and add to what you said. what you said is correct. one of the things that was challenging for his national security briefers early on was getting him to absorb.

getting him first to the room and then the table and opening the book. he requested a change where the presentations would have lots of charts and graphs. that's what he prefers. he likes the visual piece. charlie: probably part of his real estate. maggie: he sees -- robert costa had a great line that trump is television. there's something to that. it all flows through him. he sees things in terms of how it will play on a medium. for him, the quickest way to absorb something is almost sort of like the sheen or residue it leaves. he prefers television and conversation. he does deserve some credit for this. it is not as if he went off half cocked with syria. people can agree or disagree with what he did. the feeling was it was untenable for whomever was president at that point.

you can have a conversation about obama's syria policy, but that will not do much for the future. charlie: in this case, so many people around the world said somebody do something. maggie: correct. charlie: because this is a crime against humanity. maggie: it is funny. the president took two different positions about syrian refugees in 2015. at one point, he said in an interview with bill o'reilly on fox that it was an unbelievable humanitarian crisis and you had to let syrian refugees into the united states. he had a pretty quick reversal within days or weeks where he sat, "actually, i didn't mean that." charlie: because he feared somebody would come in and do something terrible on our shores. maggie: and the risk of political danger in taking that position.

in a crowded primary, you had to hang on to your base. the way to influence him, to the point about visuals, what he does respond to is if you tell him numbers, that tends not to move him the same way, although i think anybody is moved by 400,000 deaths in the civil war. but he is moved by images. the way to move him people have centimeter peter lee, is showing -- said to me repeatedly, is showing him something. the images of these refugees, particularly the young children, particularly people in the migrant crisis with children, i think he was responding to that. and then he changed. the question is, does he come back to that? charlie: a little bit of ronald reagan. maggie: that's exactly right. there are similarities. there are many differences. reagan had been a governor. go ahead. charlie: he had four specific goals. he understood how to keep the focus on three or four things.

build up the military, reduce the debt, etc. maggie: he came in with a map of what he wanted to do. so did bill clinton. bill clinton was more centrist and not ideological to the way trump came in. i never had a clear sense of what trump wants to do other than sticking broadly to the themes he has been speaking about for 30 years. trade or other countries ripping us off. charlie: that is what amazes me. two questions. did he come to some of these views because it was for him a route to the white house? he had been a democrat. he had been all over the political map. he endorsed people that the republicans would find an announcement. anathema. how much of this has he believed for a long time? i think china is one example. maggie: china is only one example of that. more broadly, that nato members are not paying their fair share. i heard him talk about it. charlie: he said about south

korea yesterday. maggie: he did not quite say it the way he did in campaign interviews. he did have that general concept of the u.s. is everyone's policeman. i think he felt that way broadly for a long time. it is easy to make that statement. it does not mean anything unless you are explaining what your theory of the case is and what regions in think need to be think need to be built up, and whether you believe in intervention. the problem with trump is during the campaign, he has the speaking style, and this is where he gets himself into trouble, although he has been doing less so -- and some of it is by design and not accident -- he has this swirl around the drain speaking style where he ends up with every bit around the bowl. at any different point in the interview we did with him about foreign policy during the campaign, you could have come away thinking he was

interventionist or isolationist if you just took the quotes on their own and out of context because they were contradictory. i think he has this sort of set of impulses, almost like an id. it is not well-defined and you don't know what it means. i don't think he knows what it means other than a feeling. charlie: he also seems to believe, as other politicians have, if you just put me in the room by myself with xi jinping -- maggie: exactly right. there is a level of hubris, which to be fair to him, president obama was accused of the same thing. he would be the person to get a middle east peace deal were no one else could. this president has said something similar. it does not work that way. i was very struck this week. i mentioned before about a jaw-dropping quote. it would seem banal but is

striking for a president, especially in the first 100 days, where he talked about how hard this is. really striking. much more work than his old job. a, because he never comes close dmitting vulnerability or frailty. that was striking. there was an aspect to it like he is at least acknowledging that this is tougher than he believed. the question is what he does with it. i can understand why people would find it surprising for a president to say. charlie: they all say there is nothing that prepares you for this job. when they get there, they will say the toughest problems rise to the oval office. everything else is settled before it gets to the president. maggie: he is not great at tuning out the ancillary noise. that is part of the problem. i think that is all true. the problem is other presidents, modern presidents, have been

much more mindful of the impact of their words when they are in the office. he continues to seem most like this minor leaguer who got called up and is still figuring out exactly how this works. charlie: is he learning on the job? maggie: i think so. charlie: he has to if used changing positions. -- if he is changing positions. you assume he changes positions because of new facts and intelligence. maggie: i think there has been a change. i think it is subtle. i think it is sometimes two steps forward and one step back. over one step forward and two steps back. you cannot underestimate the degree to which that tweet we talked about earlier believing trump tower was bugged, that tweet was a dangerous experience for him because the government ground to a halt for three weeks trying to reverse engineer justification for that tweet. there are other issues -- charlie: going in search of something, some semblance of justification. maggie: correct. if not exactly what he said,

something close. said this is what i meant. , that disappeared because syria happened. syria happened the evening of that interview susan rice gave to andrea mitchell where she said that he did not leak anything and it was not true. although she did acknowledge some unmasking, although she said this is part of the job and nothing nefarious had been done. there is a bigger debate i think is important and significant about the way in which intelligence is used. that is part of what the whole edward snowden debate has been about for several years, but that can be -- can't be justification for obscuring an investigation into whether there was collusion between russian officials trying to influence the 2016 election and the trump campaign. to be clear, there has not been proof of anything. but that is what this was all about. i think the president finally

came to realize -- just based on my reporting, i'm not speculating here -- i am told he came to relate he had bitten off more than he could chew. charlie: when did he realize that? maggie: right before syria. and after syria, he has been a bit more sober. he has seemed less frustrated, less aggravated. i think he is very lonely in the white house. charlie: that is what my next question was. what is 24 hours in donald trump's life like? when does he go to bed? who is there around the white house? they have all gone home. does he -- his wife is not there most of the time. she is in new york. maggie: they speak every day. she is a very influential presence even in absentia. charlie: explain that. most people don't know that.

maggie: people confuse her disinterest in the limelight with shyness. she is not shy. she's just not interested. she has been a model. she's had a career. she has been mrs. trump. she has been in magazines. it's not interesting to her. charlie: if you are beautiful, she knows your beautiful. maggie: she is self-assured. she is focused on raising their son. i think that is her life. what she does do is talk to him about staff moves. she does talk to him about she is seeing television coverage play out or what is appearing in newspapers or feedback from friends. she often asks him to be more careful with twitter. this has been an ongoing theme. she has even acknowledged that publicly. in terms of his day, he usually starts out watching many hours of morning television. and 6:00.00 to be clear, this is just based on what we are told.

he watches it for a while. he watches in the residence. he eventually comes down to the oval office. he comes to the oval office around 9:00, between 9:00 and 10:00 unless there is an earlier meeting. there was an effort early on to put earlier meetings on his calendar to keep him off twitter and cable. the problem is he would watch something on cable and talk back to the television on twitter. the way you would have someone write an angry letter to a newspaper if they weren't the president. in this case, it is the president. he would come down and do oval office events. his oval office is incredibly freewheeling. his setup is -- just to demonstrate, this is the resolute desk. he has four chairs ringed around his desk like at trump tower. he did that early on. he has one picture behind him. that is his father, fred trump. he does not have other pictures around.

andrew jackson is somewhere. he is around. he peeks in on tv throughout the day. he generally tries to catch sean spicer's press briefings. charlie: which millions of americans do as well. [laughter] maggie: i was going to say it , has become must-see tv. and then there are phone calls and meetings. usually he is done around 6:00 or 7:30. they have been trying to schedule dinners in the residence because that will eat up a fair amount of time, so he is not alone. his son-in-law and daughter are his two closest advisors, but they also have three young kids so there is a limit. jared kushner is said to be there until 8:00 or 9:00 at night. trump is usually alone in the residence for a couple of hours at night. he has stopped doing the late-night tweeting. again i'm not trying to grade on , a curve.

charlie: i have heard he is constantly on the phone. maggie: he is on the phone. he still has the old cellphone. sometimes he will still see a call on it. he tries to use a secure line. i believe he uses the old android for tweeting basically. he still talks to a lot of old friends. this is why you cannot ever be a gatekeeper for this man because you will never be able to control everything. charlie: is he curious? maggie: he is not an intellectually curious man in the sense he does not really read books. he does not know history particularly deeply. you constantly hear him say things like, who knew that health care could be this hard? most people knew health care could be this hard, certainly people who worked on it. charlie: bill clinton. maggie: barack obama, hillary clinton. but he is curious about a

discrete set of topics and issues. charlie: it is great to have you here. maggie: thank you for having me. charlie:

♪ charlie: sheila nevins is here.

she is the ceo of hbo documentary films. she started in 1979. since then, she has overseen a revolution in television documentaries, bringing to life such projects as taxicab confessions, when the levies broke, and the jinx. on her watch, hbo documentary films have garnered 65 primetime emmy awards, and 26 academy awards. here is a look at her it work from cbs sunday morning. , awe sat in on a session documentary. it is the reading of the constitution, the declaration of independence, and the bill of rights. >> is it true that year basic criterion is not boring, is that number one? >> absolutely. >> i am not bored yet. >> she is the patron saint of

documentaries. all filmmakers go to sheila first. that is the holy grail. how do you feel about having a narrator? i feel that would be a bad idea. >> is she really as tough as i have heard she is? >> she is honest. >> you will hear from sheila or a critic. i rather hear it in the edit room. charlie: nevins has a new book out "you do not look your age and other fairytales." it is an exposé, or an obituary. welcome. it has been a while. why did you decide to write this and what is this? sheila: it is sort of a sly memoir. in other words, there are imaginary characters in it, and there is sheila in it.

i do not know, it is things they never talked about. it is hard to be a woman that is getting older, that is working. it is hard to have once been sassy and very pretty and to suddenly see everything disappearing. it is hard, the images of aging and women are so incredibly destructive to keeping it going. charlie: you wanted to write it because these were things you cared about and worried about? sheila: yes, and i was so afraid of age. i knew women that could talk about anything, affairs, kids' ailments, but not about how old they were. charlie: ok, listen to this. here are some of the people who steinem,you, gloria leslie stahl -- you think they care about it, too? or are some of them willing to age gracefully and live with it?

sheila: i think every single one of these women, maybe diane is an exception, some sort of european cha-cha she carries with her, i think everyone of them is deeply concerned with losing what they have because they are aging. that is what faceless botox, , what we all fall for. i have a line in the book, a me, "youn who says to look young and that," she could makes the sale. horrifying. charlie: in order to make sure like you feel. they are saying go. sheila: they are saying go because it is true. it is hard to be truthful about certain things. it is easy to fib, but i decided not to fib anymore. i mean i am simply old, but i'm not stupid. i am not senile, walking with a walker. charlie: and the spirit you have is the same as when you walked

into hbo all those years ago , except you have more power and money. sheila: i have more money. have as much power. i'm still a woman, you know. i am much more efficient about ideas than i used to be. i used to stay up all night about one word, thinking it had to be changed, i had to change it, when was it too late or too early to call the producer? why haven't i told them before hand? now i can sleep. i do not agonize as much. charlie: beyond aging, beyond death, there is one story called a giant named tourette. talk about the story. sheila: a cry. my son has tourette's. it is hard enough being a mother in the workplace. it is impossible if you have a sick child. because you are afraid, at least in my generation, i was afraid to do anything that women would

do. i was afraid to say i have to leave to take my son to the doctor. i was afraid to say i'm traveling somewhere to find new medication. i was afraid to say i can't be here because of -- it was impossible to be a woman and a mother in the workplace because you wanted to play an equal game. and guys don't say, i am going am home to take my kid to the doctor. have you ever heard a man say that in the workplace? charlie: no. sheila: my son is 37 years old, so i'm talking about the culture of 30 years ago. you did not daresay that. a man did not daresay that the first of all, there were not that many men in the workplace. charlie: what makes you cry about david, your son, having tourette syndrome? is it the fact about you or

about him? sheila: that is a good question. maybe a little bit of both if i really truthful. am angry because i had to care for him so much of the time. and sound, because he was bullied and life was so difficult for him. charlie: you felt the pain he suffered because of it? ,heila: no, i did not feel pain but i felt painful on his behalf. charlie: there is another story about advised women in a male dominated workplace. sheila: it is an anonymous story that has nothing to do with me. charlie: is it in the book or not? in the book. therefore we can talk about it. sheila: you are tough. charlie: a list of rules written by a former ceo vice president. what are the rules? sheila: laugh at jokes that are not funny. charlie: please your bosses.

please your bosses. sheila: say, i never thought of that, even though you had thought of it before. never say you are taking your kid to a doctor. always say you have an appointment outside the office. never be a mother, never be a woman. be a guy. charlie: you write in a poem , mentorentor not come u you ask. is a story -- did you have a mentor? my mentor was revenge, does that sound horrible? because i'm such a suite pea? charlie: you wanted to get revenge? against people that had denied you? sheila: one person. charlie: you spent a lifetime on getting even? sheila: no, i should experience. but i was rejected when i was in yale. at yale i majored in directing

at the drama school. i was in a mood court thing at yale law school. i fell madly in love with a harvard law student that was there. madly, madly. i think that happens once. charlie: i would like to think it happens more than once. sheila: so i went to this young man's house and i had to meet his mother. she was a very blue blood person. i was not. i was the daughter of a postal clerk and a communist mother. she said to me clearly, aren't there any interesting jewish men for you at the law school here? and i never saw him again. and she has really been a mentor in many ways. the pain motivated me to show her i could do it. isn't that odd? the think i need a psychiatrist? charlie: no.

in order think about all of that, whatever gets you through the night. sheila: what about the day? too.a: thcharlie: the day charlie: there is also this, a couple poems about your friend larry freeman. sheila: larry, the love of my life. charlie: can i read the poem? sheila: yes. charlie: this is per stanza. a documentary on larry freeman to be made. i had to know him to choose film segments of his life he was sick and in hospital i forced myself to make bedside visits this led to adoration of this gay icon who survived a liver years oft, hiv, and 80 passionate living. that is your homage. sheila: i love larry. charlie: you know what he did, what he had that i loved about him? he had no fear. sheila: none.

charlie: of embarrassment. sheila: none. none. charlie: he was prepared to say, this is what i believe in and i will do anything i can. sheila: he was prepared to say, you're not doing enough. that is a great thing to be able to say. he is a hero. he is my hero, and he is very romantic. charlie: that is good to have a hero. sheila: he is a gay icon. i have a mentor who i revenge. i have a gay icon. i have a husband, a child, a job, and i am on your show. what more could anyone want? charlie: you have done at all. tell me about today. is it today because of the explosion of hbo and original programming, and streaming and all of that, how is it different for you? or is it just better and more opportunities because there are more vehicles? sheila: i would say it is more difficult to stand out in a crowd. charlie: really? because there

is so much? sheila: there is so much product. it makes your selection of product much more specific. yourself,ve to say to will anyone watch this? am i talking to myself? there was a time when you are the only kid on the block, the best. but when there are a lot of kids on the block, you have to play a different kind of ball. i fight harder for standout projects. charlie: the biggest test is, does it bore you? sheila: yes, i hate to be boar red, don't you? charlie: of course, but i want to know if it excites me. sheila: while that is the opposite of being boring. charlie: what do you miss that you do not have? sheila: that is such a deep question. what do i miss that i do not have? sheila: you had children. you had career. you had money.

you had friends. you had respect, honor, all that. sheila: yes. time, time, more time, more time. charlie: you think time is slipping away? sheila: you know you're on the other side. you just count backward. you see a picture of someone 102 years old, you say i do not want to be that person. even if i made it to 102, i don't want to be there. time is so precious. it is a cliché that it is wasted. but i have wasted a lot of time worrying about one word, one sentence. cut that cut. you have, too? charlie: yeah. it's horrifying. it is like a metronome. tu don't hear it icking. charlie: there is nobody that is

good at what they do that does not agonize over it. they may limit the agony to a limited period of time and move on, another 25 hours might not make it that much better. but anybody who cares is always agonizing over, is this the right choice or not? sheila: that's true. charlie: making films is a series of choices. sheila: yes it is. sheila: that is what it is about. this actor, that actor, this story, that story. charlie: when i was here 15 years ago, it was the same table and chair, but we are not the same. charlie: yes. "you do not look your age and other fairytales." back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

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you wouldn't pick a slow race car. then why settle for slow internet? comcast business. built for speed. built for business. ♪ thelie: jonathan demme, oscar-winning director of films such as "the silence of the lambs," and "philadelphia," died of a heart attack. he grew up in an era of low budget features. he went on to direct quirky, thoughtful films. he found mainstream success with "silence of the lambs," in 1991. it would become one of the top grossing pictures of the year. he followed that year two years with "philadelphia," the first big-budget holiday film to portray the aids crisis.

he also was a prolific documentary maker. they included jimmy carter in "a ," a haitianins journalist, and the music group talking heads in the film "stop making sense." demme appeared on this program several times over the years, here's a look at some of those conversation. >> is a surprising that jonathan demme became a filmmaker? jonathan: yeah, i became a filmmaker through a series of flukes. so much as amovies kid. i remembered my first scene, my first encounter with a television set and being instantly hooked. i remember seeing "treasure island" and going all the time. i wanted to be a veterinarian, but i bombed out of chemistry

and ended up writing movie reviews for the college paper. charlie: here is what has been said about you. you kept a notebook from the first movie you saw all the way through college, every movie you kept a little personal review as to when you saw it, who you saw it with, what the movie was about, and whether you liked it or not. jonathan: and the star rating. you have been digging deep, haven't you? charlie: you get out and start making movie reviews. your father is a publicist, yes? jonathan: yes, in miami beach. charlie: and joe levine from industry pictures comes down and your father introduces you. you show him a review of his own film "zulu?" jonathan: he said if your son is a critic, tell him to bring them to the houseboat.

i came with my scrapbook of clippings. i had favorably reviewed "zulu," and literally with a cigar in hand he said, you can come work for me. i went into the service for a while, came out, called up, and he gave me a job. suddenly i was working in the movie business, which was ridiculous. i cannot believe i can have a job there. charlie: there was no dream to be a director? sheila: none whatsoever. jonathan: none whatsoever. and then i met roger corman. he said jonathan, you write these press releases, why not a motorcycle movie? jonathan: i teamed up with the -- joe friend jovial of viola, the greatest storyteller i ever met and we showed it to roger. he said this is really good. he said joe, you direct commercials? you directed, jonathan you can

produce it. we were 24 years old and off to california to make our motorcycle movie. charlie: one of the great geniuses that gave you guys a chance for hands-on experience. jonathan: roger is one of the most extraordinary, amazing, great guys you could come across. charlie: what makes him that? jonathan: it is the oprah winfrey thing. he has got tremendous enthusiasm and a big ego and a desire to succeed. what i love about roger, one of the many things, is he is so quotable. he would tell new directors, listen, as a director you are artist, and 60%, 75% businessman. never forget that. you have to be a businessman. people will invest in our movies and you have to repay that investment. he said as soon as you let the arty part get carried away or

, you will be out of work. charlie: when "the silence of the lambs" came our way, did you have a sense the movie would be what it did? did you know because of of performance, jody's performance, the script? jonathan: i knew it had the potential to be a splendid movie. i knew that ted had written an exceptional script from a great , great, great book. tom harris is such an extraordinary writer and i knew we had a great cast. i knew fujimoto would work his magic and everybody was going to do their thing. i was confident we were going to butture,rrific teacher, bu when you're making these things, the one things my movies have in common, i have voice been really excited by their potential as movies and the belief that if we can make a movie that excites other people as much as a potential of it excites me, maybe it will be contagious.

sometimes people ask me, what is the common link in your movies? the only common link for me is that i love the source material. i loved the source material because it has been beautifully written. whether that is the humor of "married to the mob," or the extraordinary human tapestry of "beloved," or "philadelphia," or thomas harrison's vision of america, the writing has been exceptional. when you make a movie you have to live with these things for two years, if you are a director. it is a long process and it has to continue to feed you and interest you to deliver something worthy of all that effort. charlie: you made a documentary about the talking heads? jonathan: i consider that a rock-umentary. it was a performance found. i made some documentaries.

i made one about my cousin, a castle, a big troublemaker in new york city. charlie: can you imagine not making movies? what would you do if you did not make movies? jonathan: "your. maybe even open a movie theater and show movies. but i love making films. charlie: the joy is, what? jonathan: one of the joys is getting together with a whole community of extraordinarily gifted people, and pooling your ideas and your efforts together with a collective goal of making something extremely special for people to look at. charlie: jonathan demme died at age 73. ♪

♪ alisa: i am alisa parenti in washington. we start with a check of your first word news. president trump has not ruled out a meeting with kim jong-un. he tells bloomberg news he would be honored to meet with the north korean leader under the right circumstances. the last top u.s. official to meet with the north korean leader was secretary of state madeleine albright, who met with his father. the u.n. human rights chief says that his office is "watching the u.s. very closely under president trump." the u.n. human rights high commissioner for human rights warned last year his