♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin this evening with our continuing coverage of james comey's firing. in an interview with lester holt, donald trump said he would've fired james comey, despite recommendations. it contradicts the statement regarding comey's abrupt. -- abrupt termination. andrew mccaig rejected claims that comey lost the support of a rank-and-file fbi agents. >> is it accurate that the rank and file no longer supported director comey? >> no, sir.

that is not accurate. charlie: the administration's credibility has been called into question from the several misleading accounts. joining me now from washington is bob costa from "the washington post." i am pleased him back on the program. bob, one broad question, what damage do you think this is doing to donald trump, if any? bob: it is doing damage to him on several fronts. within the white house, it has caused some tumult. the staff, in some respects, felt unprepared for this. the president made a personal decision with the attorney general and white house counsel. more broadly, the party on capitol hill -- i'm just walked over from the capital, and they feel like they were given a curveball this week by this decision. they were not ready to talk to the president's decision or defend him in an articulate way. it gives disruption to his entire agenda as he tries to pursue health care and taxes. now, all anyone is talking about

in washington is russia and former director comey. charlie: why do they think he did it? bob: he did it because, based on my reporting and those of my colleagues, it was the culmination of frustration, seething at times, anger about comey. the president told lester holt today he called the director to ask him if he was being investigated, whether the president was under scrutiny. even at a dinner, charlie, where director comey was asking to stay on as director of the fbi, so the president was engaged in the idea that this russia investigation and interference was going on. he was also very -- i am told, by top people in the white house, he wanted the fbi to go after the leaks within the federal government. there was resistance from the fbi to take direction from the white house. charlie: there is also the

suspicion that he did it in the end, because he was tired of this investigation called the russian probe. he has called it simply, nothing there. bob: he is very unhappy with this ongoing probe. charlie: is it because he fears something, or he thinks they are somehow out to get him without reason? bob: when he talks to his associates, he uses the latter explanation for his anger. i have been reporting in recent weeks about how he watches television all day and is monitoring what is on the cable networks, and he sees russia probe. when comey went to capitol hill last week and talked about how the russian interference investigation was going, i am told the president, in essence, became. as. -- in essence, became furious. he thought comey was strange and talking too much about russia. this is a president that wants badly to move on from the russian issue and russian ties perhaps to his campaign during last year's election. but the federal government has

not been willing to move on and that led to this clash over the weekend. charlie: what is your impression of the senate intelligence committee investigation? bob: so far, it has yielded little. senator burr has been careful in some of the language he uses publicly to make sure he keeps his credibility. we have seen house intelligence committee chairman devin nunes, a trump ally, struggle. he has struggled to keep his committee going. he had to recuse himself from the russia investigations because of his behavior and ties to the white house. yet, the senate -- mark warner in virginia, the ranking member of senate intel committee and burr, the north carolina republican -- they have a strong, working relationship, but there is some concern about how far to lean in. democrats want a special prosecutor. charlie: the suspicion always is, once you give a special prosecutor power, president clinton found this out, you never know how wide the investigation is going to become.

on the other hand, if you want to eliminate all suspicion, you should try to create a body of investigation that will be credible and have some sense of finality to the investigation. bob: the unending nature of a special prosecutor looms over the white house's thinking. you have to remember, the core of what drove this was the president's desire to move on from the russian investigation, to get the russian probes off of his plate and presidency. that is what led to comey really getting out there. it has been tapered over by the white house. their explanation was that the deputy attorney general, rob rosenstein, because of his memorandum, was the reason for the ouster. but it was the president himself fuming about russia that led to comey's dismissal. charlie: what is rod rosenstein saying now? bob: he is the most intriguing figure in all of this. he gets called to the white

house on monday with attorney general sessions. based off our investigation, he had been reviewing comey's leadership. he said comey had not been doing a good job in his opinion. the president tells them he wants that in writing, he wants a memorandum. by tuesday, he moves quickly to fire comey after receiving that text. rosenstein feels, he was used by the white house. he was reviewing the fbi, but the president had made a decision before he confided with rosenstein on monday. rosenstein remains deputy ag. we are told he was very unhappy with how this all played out and the white house pinned this on him. charlie: did he meet today with the chair and cochair of the senate intelligence committee? bob: he is going to keep getting

called back, charlie. everyone wants to hear, what did rosenstein say to the president on monday? what is he working on in terms of his investigation with comey's leadership? what was the nature of his conversation with jeff sessions, who was supposedly supposed to recuse himself from the russia investigation at the justice department, but was involved in the discussions about comey. everyone wants to know what rosenstein is thinking, and what he said and the president said. charlie: what is the next step in this story? bob: congress, but congress is controlled by republicans. the extent to which they do anything will be closely watched by democrats and president trump. if there will not be a special prosecutor, then how hard will chairman burr push in the senate? what else will be done by leader mcconnell and speaker ryan to delve more into the decision to fire director comey? the president keeps saying comey failed in his leadership of the fbi. the russian probes continue and how they are handled will be closely monitored.

charlie: thank you, bob. great to see you. bob: thank you. charlie: bob costa from washington. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: admiral william mcraven is here. he served as a navy seal for almost four decades. as a four-star admiral, his final command was of special operations. he is now chancellor of the

university of texas. his new book is called "make your bed: little things that can change your life...and maybe the world." i'm pleased to have admiral mcraven here. great to have you back. it is such a great story. you are going to write a commencement speech, and we have two things we want to do. we want to say something that comes from our hearts, and we do not want to say what everybody else has said. take it from there. adm. mcraven: i had been writing the speech for a couple weeks prior to the day i was scheduled to give it which was may 17. and the week before -- it was wednesday of the week before, and i could not make the speech work. i had a theme, and it was kind of coming together and then it stopped. i could not finish the theme. i had a little bit of writer's block. i remember turning to my wife and i said, "i cannot finish this thing." she said, "why don't you write about something you know?" the only thing i know is being a

navy seal for the last 35 years. she said, "write about that." the problem is, i am about to step onto university campus in uniform. i do not know what the students want to hear about what it took to be a navy seals and the lessons i learned. she kept saying write about something you know. i started thursday and wrote the speech. i wrote it up until the hour i gave it. it seemed to have come together. charlie: you started with these 10 things, 10 lessons. were they 20 that you boiled down to 10? adm. mcraven: no, i had in mind -- i wanted to frame it to about 20 minutes because i knew that was the expectation at the commencement speech. i had 10 clear lessons in mind. i probably could have gone to 11 or 12, but 10 seemed to fit. charlie: did you show them to her before you went? adm. mcraven: i never show my speeches before i give them, it is a superstition of mine.

i don't let anybody read it, and i don't let anybody here it. -- hear it. i wait until i deliver it until hearing the remarks. charlie: and how many have read that speech? it went viral. adm. mcraven: i understand about 25 million people. the fact of the matter is, the lessons are simple. as i said at the beginning of the speech, it does not make a difference whether you spend a day in uniform. it does not matter your color, ethnicity, orientation. these are basic lessons. don't quit, be our best in your darkest moment. do not back down from bullies. these are lessons all of us can use in life. of course, i put them in the context of going through seal training. but in fact, it really did not matter whether you would ever be a seal, these are lessons for life. charlie: you start with making your own bed. why is that important to start? adm. mcraven: when i was young, my mother was a texas school teacher, and my father was an

air force officer. interestingly enough, it was my mother who made sure every morning i got up and made my bed. lots of parents tell kids to make their bed. i am not sure i understood the importance of it. when we got to seal training, it was required every morning. we would have a uniform inspection and a bed inspection. i am not sure i understood at the time why that was important. i had come to seal training to learn how to be a battle hardened seal and the first thing we were doing every morning was having our bed inspected. the lesson became clear as i went through seal training and frankly, through the navy. it is about one, doing the first task of the day and doing it right. if you can do the first task of the day and get that then, then that will encourage you to do another task and another. the other piece of this, the seal instructors wanted to make sure you did it exactly right. there were standards. you had to have hospital corners, 45 degrees, the pillow at the front of the bed had to be exactly right. the extra blanket had to be folded exactly right. their point was, if you cannot do the little things right, if

you cannot make your bed right, how will you ever run a seal mission correctly? so, it was about doing something that was good to do in the morning that started your day off right, and making sure you do the little things right. charlie: and you said -- if you want to change the world, start by making your bed. the second was, you cannot go it alone. adm. mcraven: in seal training, you learn very quickly that -- i do not care if you are the strongest guy, the best runner, at the end of the day, we are called the seal teams for a reason. there is a recognition that if you are going to be successful, you have to work as a team. from day one of seal training, you get a little rubber boat, a raft. an inflatable boat, an ibs. it takes seven men to carry it. the officer is at the very back, the helmsman.

you take it with you everywhere you go. you run to chow with it. you run over the dunes with it when you are doing soft sands runs. the point that they make is, if everybody does not pull together, if everybody does not help get that boat where it needs to go, then i don't care how good you are, you are not going to get there. the importance of having people help you paddle was enforced every day. of course, it is about life. the fact of the matter is, i do not care how tough you are, most people cannot make it through life on their own. it is good to have friends and people that love you. charlie: you start with making the bed. secondly, you can't go it alone. you need someone to help you go paddle. the third is the size of your heart. adm. mcraven: the interesting thing about seal training, when you start off, there is someone they picked to be the most likely to succeed. the guy that will be the honor man.

the team picks him, the class does. the class is new, and they find the biggest, toughest guy that looks the most like a seal. he invariably is picked to be the honor man, and almost invariably, he is the first person that falls out. you find that the little guy you never expected ends up being the best guy there. training -- we divided into boat crews. these were based on size. the big guys were in one boat crew and the little guys in another. we called them the munchkin crew. based on the wizard of oz. the fellas in that boat crew was an unusual mix, we had an indian-american, greek-american, french-american. they were all about 5'5", and they turned out to be some of the best swimmers, best runners, some of the best guys in the obstacle course. you learn very quickly that it

is about the size of your heart. tommy norris, the first time i met him, i was actually a senior in college. i went out to visit basic seal training. as i was waiting around to meet a lieutenant who would talk to me about basic seal training, out of the corner of my eye, i saw what i thought was going to be a young, teenaged guy. i saw him from a distance. he was smaller than i was and thin. i kept watching him out of the corner of my eye. he was looking at these pictures that we have hanging in the seal training compound. there were pictures from guys in vietnam, and i remember thinking to myself, "does this guy think he can make it through seal training?" small stature, wiry, thin. i thought, "wow, this guy is -- he is fooling himself if he thinks he will make it through seal training." at some point, i get invited to

the lieutenant's office. he does look like the poster child for a seal. doug looks past the doorway and says, "hey, bill, let me introduce you to somebody." he yells out into the hall, " "tommy, come in here a minute." tommy norris walks in and, of course, he was one of the last medal of honor recipients from vietnam. he was by far and away the toughest seal in the history of the seals at that time. it was a lesson for me to realize. you have to be careful about appearances. tommy norris went on to be on the fbi hostage rescue team, and an incredibly tough, tough guy. but not the biggest guy. charlie: didn't he received the medal of honor? adm. mcraven: you may recall, there was an old movie, an air force lieutenant colonel whose plane got shot down over

it non-. -- over vietnam. he had parachuted out. lieutenant norris went behind enemy lines to find him. eventually, managed to pick him up and had to fight his way back to friendly lines. this day after day of trying to find this downed lieutenant colonel, finding his way back, rescued the lieutenant colonel and for that, he received the medal of honor. charlie: the next is, life is not fun. life is not fair, drive on. adm. mcraven: this is about what we refer to as a sugar cookie in the seal training. the sugar cookie is when an instructor arbitrarily -- and this is an important point -- arbitrarily says, i do not like

your looks. hit the surf. you whirl around in the sand and you are covered from head to toe in sand and you are wet and sandy and you spend the rest of the day kind of wet and sandy with sand in your armpits and legs. it is the arbitrariness that always frustrated people. sometimes guys looked perfect in their uniform and their brass and shoes were perfectly polished and they expected they would be rewarded for the great effort. every once in a while an instructor would say hit the surf and become a sugar cookie. charlie: life is not fair. adm. mcraven: and that is the point of the lesson. look, sometimes -- i do not care how hard you try, how good you can be. is not fair, and you have to get over it. charlie: let me just point to this number. in your class, only 33 graduated. there were 150 students that started with you. what is the difference between

those who ring the bell and those who pass the finish line? what is the difference? adm. mcraven: i had a young man who was graduating from the university of texas last year. he was a decathlete. he was getting ready to go to seal training. nationally ranked decathlete. he wanted to come talk to me about the secrets of making it through seal training. i had him over for lunch, and he sits across from me, incredibly sharp young man. he says, "well admiral, obviously i would like to know, what is the secret to making you -- making it through seal training?" do i need to spend more time running? i said, "no, you look like you are in pretty good shape." well how about swimming? no, you look like a decathlete, . you look like you will be able

to do this. he went through the litany of things. i said, "it is easy to make a through seal training, you just don't quit." he kind of took a deep breath and said, "i understand. but should i strengthen my upper body?" i said, "let me be clear. it is easy, you just don't quit." there will come times in training when you will be exhausted, when you will begin to doubt yourself, when the instructors will be applying pressure on you. you just have to tell yourself, "i am not going to quit." so the difference between those that make it through and those that don't is just that. that is why it does not make any difference how fast you are, how strong you are. it matters about your determination not to quit. so, when you look at life, at some point in time, life deals all of us a difficult hand. charlie: what is the biggest

surprise in your new job now as chancellor at the university of texas? adm. mcraven: the transition of the military to running the university of texas system i think went pretty smoothly. i'm used to running large organizations. you realize when running a large organization, it is all about the people. you have to respect the people. i got a very diverse population, it is 28,000 students, 100,000 employees spread across 14 different institutions. it is fabulous and fascinating. one day you're talking to a nobel laureate, and the next to a heisman trophy winner, and everything in between. i tell you what has pleasantly surprised me. the number of people that want to give to the university, to give to causes. we have a cancer clinic. there are folks from all walks of life that want to contribute to try to help cure cancer. there are folks that want to improve the quality of life for young kids in south texas in the rio grande valley. they donate not only their money, but their time and their

resources and their passion to helping these young men and women. many of them see in these young men and women themselves. we have a lot of first generation families. we have a large hispanic population. when you can see these young men and women who are the first in their family to go to college, and the first in her family to go to medical school, and you realize they have just changed the entire trajectory of their family's lineage forever. statistics show that, if you do go to college, chances are your kids will go and their kids will go. so, this is the great appeal of this particular job, having an opportunity to watch the young men and women. they are not all young men and women, but most of them are that 18-year-old to 21-year-old. they come in and change their lives. charlie: since the time you left the military and you look at the national world today through the prism of someone who understands the national security challenge, where do we stand today?

you said at this table a couple years ago, you thought we needed to have more troops in syria. adm. mcraven: i will tell you, i applaud both president obama and president trump for the trajectory we are on now in terms of the fight against isis. so it is probably a little over a year ago, maybe march of last year, president obama decided to double down on our efforts in iraq and syria in terms of increasing the number of troops on the ground, working with iraqis, working with the moderate syrians. i think you have seen the effect this has had on isis. certainly as president trump has come in, he has continued this effort and increase the number of troops on the ground. i think that strategy is working as far as isis goes. i am appreciative of both presidents for their efforts against it.

because isis is really a scourge not only for the middle east in that region, but the second and third order affects of what isis creates when you have this mass migration into europe, the potential to pressurize jordan, lebanon, and others, it is important we take care of this problem. i think we are making good progress against isis. i think the strike we conducted in syria when we determined that there was another chemical attack, i applauded those efforts. i thought it was appropriate. it was proportional. my only regret is, i think we need to continue to apply pressure in syria on the ground. when we see the syrian army beginning to threaten moderate syrians -- until you do that, until we begin to have the high ground, if you will, both the tactical, strategic, and moral high ground in syria, i do not know if we can apply pressure to the russians.

right now, we do not have many cards to play. i do think we need to come up with a strategy. when i say we, it is the great work rex tillerson and jim mattis will do in terms of advising the president to apply pressure to assad and the russians. we need to be in a place of strength in syria, and we are not there. i think his choice of jim mattis as secretary of defense was the right guy for the job. charlie: what is it about him that makes everyone say that? adm. mcraven: he is a voracious reader. he was a neighbor of mine and we are dear friends. i have the greatest respect for jim mattis. he is tactically and strategically incredibly sound in terms of understanding the battlefield and the implications of how to fight wars. he is great with the soldiers,

sailors, airmen and marines. he is kind of a general's general. he knows how to spend time with the soldiers. he knows how to make them tick. -- he knows what makes the soldiers tick. respectot only has the of the soldiers and marines, he has the respect of the senior officers. as a secretary of defense, all the commanders and senior officers that report to him. charlie: your book is called "make your bed: little things that can change your life...and maybe the world." he has had been incredible life for a young man and it continues in the good state of texas. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪ these days families want to be connected 24/7.

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♪ charlie: chris stapleton is here. the grammy award-winning singer-songwriter has been called countries outlaw. he uses a studio that houses the greats such as elvis presley and dolly parton. in his call from a room volume one, rolling stone calls the album equal parts otis redding and waylon jennings. here is him performing in our studio. [indiscernible]

anytime we ever talked [indiscernible] we go where we go [indiscernible] we go to work we go to church [indiscernible] all my tears and cried. home like this ♪ say the word we will call it quits baby, you can go you can stay

i will love you, anyway ♪ it has been a long time since i have felt anything inside these walls you don't feel that all ♪ i used to cry and stay up at night and wonder what went wrong it has been hard, a heart can only do that for so long

♪ we can just go on like this say the word, will call it quits baby, you can go where you can stay i won't love you either way ♪ we can just go on like this

say the word, we'll call it quits baby, you can go or you can stay i won't love you either way ♪ charlie: i am pleased to have chris stapleton at the table for the first time. welcome. charlie: thank you. country's raining outlaw. charlie: a comparison to waylon jennings, not bad. chris: i will take it.

charlie: what do you think when they say country's reigning outlaw? chris: i think it is just a reference to the music. i am not much of an outlaw. charlie: but what about the music? i certainly always have a tip of the hat and have in my mind waylon and willie and merle haggard and that era of music is a lot of my favorite things. there were things they were doing right -- not that there is a right and wrong. but the things that i prefer. charlie: what were they doing? chris: being themselves and doing what feels good to them versus trying to be what someone else was doing. charlie: when did the music thing happened for you? chris: i always played music and sang in church with my brother. my dad liked to play the radio a lot. my mom would sing in the house.

i had an uncle who plays guitar and sang. it was always there. adon't necessarily come from musical family. it's not like we were touring, nobody got out and played. charlie: you are not singing in the choir. chris: no, not really. at some point i kind of fell into it, maybe for a lack of wanting to do anything else. or it found me. charlie: was it to sing or right -- write? chris: to write initially, when i really got serious about it. when i found out you could get a job, that someone would pay you money to sit in a room and write songs for other people, that sounds like a great job in the world. charlie: it worked out pretty well. chris: i was really lucky and had a lot of things lineup for me early. charlie: adele, you wrote a song she covered?

chris: i did. she got it off of a record that i made with a bluegrass band. i had never met her. charlie: what amazes me is they all say you have the greatest voice around today. it is not even about the songwriting skills, which are clear, but the voice. chris: i don't know about all that. there are a lot of great singers and great voices. but, you know, hopefully i have something that is recognizable and will possibly hold up over time. charlie: 2 million albums says something. chris: it says we sold 2 million albums. charlie: 2 million people are willing to pay to hear you sing, that is when it said. when you are writing songs, tell me about that process. chris: it can be different on any given day. if it is just me alone, i am sitting with a guitar and

strumming and humming something and seeing where that leads. i could hear a conversation out walking somewhere and get a title or something somebody says may stick something else in my brain or sometimes it just falls out of the sky and into your lap. charlie: i know how you feel about this and i am not trying to push you -- but for whatever reason, people see you as a route back to waylon and others. you mentioned willie. that somehow you are today an entry back to what made them -- chris: i don't know about in entry back but i would not mind being viewed as a bridge. somewhere in between. charlie: your spoken of in the same breath. chris: i'm not going to put myself in any kind of sentence with those guys that yeah, i

think it is important for me, personally, to always have a tip of the hat to those guys are also, you know, old r&b singers. ray charles, aretha franklin. i like all kinds of music. i hope some of that shows up. charlie: what happened at the 2015 cma awards? chris: a lot. eight minutes that can -- charlie: change your life. chris: yes. ♪ >> ♪ tennessee whiskey you are as sweet, so very wise ♪

charlie: did you know it at the moment? chris: i knew we would have a fun time playing music because we had spent two days rehearsing. charlie: it was the two of you coming together. chris: it was a collaboration in the truest sense. he is a remarkable, singular talent as far as musical people go. if you're going to do something with him, it is going to be something good. charlie: because his talent is so special. chris: he elevates. he can elevate things. he is a great, positive energy and a great performer. he is not very old but he is a veteran performer. there are things he brings to a stage that not many people can. charlie: travelers sold at how many? 2 million? originally, i am told, that you

were prepared simply to cut the album and go on tour. chris: that was my request of the label and their request of me was let us find some other ways to market things. let's look at this and we will approach it that way, and that is what we did. we didn't have a lead up single or anything like that. and it wasrecord out traveler at the time. it came out the same week. dates and that's how i knew how to do it. >> [indiscernible] >> ♪ showed my heart behind the pocket of my shirt i just keep roaming i travel ♪ chris: that is what made the most sense to me. charlie: that was the most logical path to follow. chris: that is the easiest path for me.

you play a show, you sent people home and they play it for somebody else and they bring them back to the show. that is the easiest math for me. charlie: they buy the album that -- at the show? chris: that is a very independent notion. it comes from bluegrass. that was my plan. then other things happened along the way that were fortunate. charlie: this is volume one, volume two comes out later. tell me about the creation of the album. chris: i knew we would have to make an album at some point. we set aside some time, we set aside a couple of months and went back into the rca room and recorded traveler and kind of camped out. charlie: a pretty important room. chris: a very important room. there are not a lot of them. these kind of historic studios have been torn down where great,

important recordings have been made. so to get to feel the ghosts in the walls, that inform and elevate what you do in those rooms. it is important to get the feel. charlie: a communion with those people. chris: a communion, absolutely, and you feel a responsibility in -- responsibility to it, when you're in there. i think that really can push you a long of it. charlie: i read about all of the conflicts in nashville, about pop and country and all that, you seem to say, "i am making music." chris: yes. i don't like sushi, i don't try to get other people to not eat sushi. charlie: why don't you like sushi? chris: i just don't. i never have. my wife loves it, it is not for me. i grew up landlocked. we didn't have many sushi joints

in kentucky. charlie: but you have no reason not to like it. chris: i don't feel ill will against people who like sushi but i don't want to keep using the metaphor. that is how a lot of the chatter around music feels to me, when one kind of music is right and another kind of music is wrong. if music make somebody feel good and they enjoy it, that is great for them. if you don't like to listen to something, turn to something else that you do like and listen to music. have fun. it is ok. it does not mean you can't be friends with someone who likes a different kind of music. that is so weird to me. charlie: i am not proud of this question but i will ask it anyway. what brings you the most pleasure, writing a good song or singing a good song? chris: that is a tough one. i am not a great judge when i get done writing something, whether it is great or not.

it is easy to get done writing a song and think it is good. i probably get more pleasure out of singing a song i know is great, whether it is mine or somebody else's. usually it is somebody else's. there is something about when you know words are right where they need to be, the melody is where it needs to be, and they fit together so well like a puzzle. charlie: you know what amazes me too, whether it is national or -- nashville or los angeles or wherever it is, new york city, is that people somehow, when they are discovered, it is like he or she is an overnight sensation. , whenst emerged overnight in fact, it was long days, long years and long rejections. chris: i know very few people

who are actually overnight -- i'm not sure that actually exists. maybe it does for somebody. charlie: it is practice, practice, practice. chris: well, you do the work. keep your head down and do the work. charlie: there is a song, keep your head down and do the work. chris: i very much feel that way. try to do the work, do the best work you can do. whatever you are doing. i think that ultimately at least is an ingredient for the opportunity to be successful. charlie: let me ask some of the songs and what comes to your head first. "broken halos." what inspired that? chris: i can tell you what inspired that my cowriter, mike henderson, was reading a keith richards biography and i think

he was speaking to friends of -- friends that he had lost to , who left thiser world before they should have. he had called them broken halos. we were talking about that one night when we were supposed to be writing songs, and it kind of became that song. now, what i really think of when you read that title is, i recorded that song on the day a guy i grew up with passed away. he died of pancreatic cancer. and that is what i think of when you say, what do i think of? i got the phone call and we recorded the song. charlie: you got the phone call and you recorded the song. you can feel the emotion in the song. chris: yes. that is what -- when you ask me, what i hear when you read that title, i go back to that phone call. i had already planned on

recording the song but, to me, i took a moment and went outside and said, this is what we are going to do. we are to record this song. charlie: "up to no good living." chris: my wife loves that song. charlie: why? chris: i don't know. [laughter] it is a bit of a -- her taste in songs is sometimes puzzling to me but i trust her without fail on things she likes because she has excellent taste in just about everything but men. [laughter] charlie: self-deprecation has taken you a long way. [laughter] charlie: what comes first, lyrics or melody? chris: once again, that can be a revolving thing. i have written songs where i would hum and strum, and i have -- i would start a sentence and start a song and write it, top to bottom.

i have also had a cowriter go "i've got this lyric for the melody, i've done it both sides of the spectrum." there is no right or wrong way. sometimes the chorus comes first, sometimes the first work -- word comes first, sometimes the idea comes first, sometimes you play a melody you love and it is two hours before any words come. charlie: "death row." chris: death row was -- mike and i, we were in the steel drivers together, with a lot of bluegrass murder ballad fascinations. he is also a great bluesman. he is from the st. louis area and has very real, original blues training. that song was written as a blues song originally. iskind of -- our version

kind of a derivation from that. charlie: i want to ask you about "without your love." another mike henderson. chris: it started from the guitar riff. that is what i remember about that one. i probably sat there and play bad guitar riff and that opens up the song for several minutes. and mike sat over there thinking. sometimes we will be really quiet when we're writing songs. we will be scribbling, and we say, what have you got? somewhere out of that came the lyrics. charlie: then you honed it? chris: and chipped away at it. charlie: like a sculpture. chris: for sure. you get rid of the unnecessary things. charlie: touring is something you love? chris: i do. i enjoy playing music lives. sometimes the travel is a hard thing but that is part of it. we travel as comfortably as we

possibly can. i make the joke all the time, i play the music for free, you pay me to travel. [laughter] charlie: that is great. chris: the music is free, you pay me to travel. charlie: your ticket bought my bus, that is what you are paying me for, because i love the music. chris: absolutely. i did from any years. i would play for free or next to nothing just because i love it. charlie: you have written more than 1000 songs. chris: somewhere in the neighborhood. i don't have an exact count. charlie: do you keep all of them? chris: my publishing company keeps track of them. [laughter] as much as i can turn them in. but yeah. you mean do i have them? i don't have them on my phone or anything like that but if i wanted to hunt one down i would probably call the publishing company and say, do you have a

copy of this? i would track it down. charlie: anything you're not doing that you very much want to do? chris: in music? i have been given so many opportunities in music over my whole career but particularly in the last two or three years that i can't imagine there is anything i am not getting to do that i want to do. it is really amazing in that way. i tell my mom all the time, i literally have everything i could ever want. charlie: i literally have everything i ever wanted. chris: yes. as far as things you can hope for and want, that is a strange feeling a little bit. charlie: how old are you? chris: i am 39. charlie: and you have everything you ever wanted? chris: or ever thought about. sure. it is a strange feeling. i tell people all the time, i have to get new goals.

sometimes i remember there was a time where i was playing around in an auditorium was a gold mine. played arough that, we few in succession and i literally left that gig saying i have to get a new goal. i do not have a gig goal anymore. charlie: the thing about success is you get options. chris: for sure. you have options to do the things you want to do and hopefully make the right choices. charlie: the more you know, my impression is, the more you know the more you can see not only options and possibilities but you can see how much further you have to go. chris: yeah, i guess. charlie: i don't mean in terms of talent. once you are good, if you are good, you know how good you are. but you also know how much better you can be.

chris: i am always -- yes. i certainly have a sense of, i need to be a better player or singer. i need to be -- i always want that. i always want that. that does not go away. it is almost like there is -- if there is a lack of satisfaction, it is in wanting to do something just a little bit better. and that is ok. i think that is what drives people to make things or to, hopefully, work as hard as they can. charlie: to create. this is an amazing album. it is good to see you. chris: good to see you. charlie: come back anytime. charlie: thank you for joining us. ♪

jonathan: from new york city, i am jonathan ferro. with 30 minutes dedicated to the fixed income. this is "bloomberg real yield." ♪ jonathan: coming up, valuations remain elevated, volatility sinks. the epicenter of the reflation trade comes unstuck and china's deleveraging campaign rocks commodities. where are the investors who turned bullish? we start with a big issue. is low volatility a sign of investor complacency? >> you see that in equities, in credit, in iert