>> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charlie: we begin this evening with politics. the new york times reports this evening that president trump asked former fbi director james in february to terminate the investigation of michael flynn. the white house has denied any wrongdoing. the president technologist and defended the position as his absolute right in a series of tweets early tuesday morning.

the news has intensified criticism of the trump administration's alleged ties to russia that dates back. the 2 p.m. news show on msnbc, i am pleased as always to have her back at this table. the first time you have been back since i was away for a while. katy: since the election. charlie: i don't know where to start. brooks had a call today that said the world is led by a child. says trump asks him to influence an investigation. you've got the classified information. katy: it is hard to say where it is all going.

we were calling it seven days in may but we must call it eight days in may. on tuesday, donald trump fires fbi director comey and we're told he did so at the request. he meets with russian officials in the oval office. there was reported later that they were duped by the russians and the russians were not telling them this was a media outlet. nbc news has the exclusive interview in which he tells alwaysholt that i was going to fire comey and yes i was thinking about russia when i was considering doing that. not that he took the recommendation of the deputy ag. charlie: i will ask this and you

probably know. i think, when he said that. create a whole flurry of criticism of me about russia. i don't know what he thought he was doing at the time. it is hard to buy that he knew it would create a flurry of criticism and that is why he did it. i'm not so sure. that is a generous reading of it. charlie: if he meant to say, everyone would know i know what i'm doing and i make knowledge acknowledge that i did it because of the russian investigation. katy: from what i have seen and infer from him, and the conversations i have had with people that have known him for somebody that wants to be in control at all times.

he also has a tendency in interviews that he can go on tangents in the freewheeling. it is why his supporters liked him so much. he wasn't practiced and he said things that were inappropriate and controversial. he didn't back down from anything. charlie: he would take on any power, including china. katy: it worked for him during the election and you can argue it has worked for him so far. what have the real consequences been to the various controversies? we republican's saying that are not going to stand by this. charlie: why do we have all this distraction like mitch mcconnell. republicans really just want to get therir agenda done.

it will enable them to get the things that they want to do done. and they point to judge neil gorsuch as a real victory of theirs. they willderal judges end up appointing. it's becoming increasingly hard to stand by him given the political pressure out there and how much drama this white house creates. they are not making real steps to disassociate themselves or distance themselves from this president by and large. i hate to always look back, but the past is our best guide. paul ryan, including they kept saying over and over that hillary clinton was careless with classified

information. they took that from james comey. they should not be allowed to classified to information. it's one of the reasons why they thought she wasn't fit for office. tweet, find everybody's and what about the time he said this? and now, given the circumstances . a given that he has done the same thing and admitted to doing it on twitter this morning -- that is an argument that can be made. what do the republicans do going forward? do they stand by their previous statements are that it is just partisan politics. his staff and donald , the different interpretations of it. having a community

they work in. h.r. mcmaster's said there were no methods. comes along and says, it is my job to share things with the russians because -- trying to enlist them in the fight against terrorism and isis. red: it is somewhat of a herring when mcmasters was talking about sources and methods because that is not what the washington post article laid out. listen, this is something the president is allowed to do and he can deem what is classified or he can unclassified things at it moment if it feels like is in the national interest. he wants a better relationship with russia. he wants them to work with us in order to eradicate isis. this question was asked during the briefings of h.r. mcmaster and of sean spicer a little bit later today.

was this something that donald trump was prepared to say? did they go through the appropriate intelligence channels to alert them to this? or was this something he decided spur of the moment to share with the russians? the white house, including h.r. mcmaster' dodged that question. charlie: what should have staff had done in terms of something the jobs? he said, is of the national security adviser to make sure the president knows what is the protocol. what they can sand what they cannot say. that is what you expect from a national security adviser, to fully inform the president of something very sensitive and you can't refer to it. katy: we keep hearing that donald trump is not a normal president. instead of full briefings, multipage briefings, he wants

one page with bullet points. of those thatons know him very well, they say the same thing. he's not somebody that pays attention to the details of things, to the minutia of things. headline reader. he won't get into the weeds on something. policy is not a strong suit for him. he said that he understood health care within a matter of days so quickly. did notnterviews, it seem to be true. he seemed to not understand the nitty-gritty of what was out there. the same thing goes for what we are seeing with intelligence. charlie: how big is this story? comey memo -- this is tomorrow morning's papers. trop asked him to end the flynn investigation. katy: nbc news is able to verify

the existence of that letter. particular, "i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go." this is what trump asked of director comey. he has a history of creating paper trails. they are reporting more paper trails that are classified and having to do with conversations he had with the president. the thing about it -- charlie: to write a memo? katy: he would leave the meeting and go to his office, presumably, and write down exactly what happened. the article says he did that because he was worried that certain conversations could come up later and he wanted to have a happened. log of what he is someone who was meticulous during his time at the fbi. and there's got to be some of these memos that, potentially,

the public can see. what is happening right now is there are so many anonymous sources. and richard burr from the senate intelligence committee, they came out and said that this is all concerning. but i do want to see someone go on the record. these things have to be attached to a name. charlie: can comey testify on the record? katy: it's a good question. yes, he will want to get his story out but it is unclear in what venue and at what time. charlie: a hearing more -- katy: if it will be an open hearing or a classified hearing. or a closed hearing. i think the public is itching for someone to come out and say, listen, i've got to go on the .ecord with this until this happens, the republicans have it in their firepower.

these are all anonymous sources that are out to get me. the democrats have any real leverage when they say they will not vote on a net ei director until they see some action? katy: in terms of numbers, no. they don't have the majority right now.the senate but the question is, will they have an appetite to make it partisan? or do they want to make sure the director is someone that both the democrats and republicans agree on to make sure the american public knows that they are above politics. from what we can gather, the republicans want to do something like that. they want someone from within the fbi. someone who is a judge. again, it remains to be seen who donald trump nominates and how that process plays out. charlie: let me turn to foreign

policy. a challenge to the president right now -- north korea just had another missile. a large one that they put on the rocket. suggesting that this was a successful firing of a medium-range missile. he, theys that president says, he has a very good relationship with the chinese. thathinese are doing more, he will do less in terms of demands about trade if they will help him on north korea. are they doing it? is he successful at that? that's a good question. north korea feels emboldened that the moment from their behavior. you can tell by the number of test they have been doing. north korea, according to

intelligence officials in the , this iso the election what president obama told trump as well. the north korea would be his biggest problem. is donald trump being successful? they have taken out -- there have been some op-ed in their onspapers that have called the north koreans to deescalate tensions. the south koreans want to try out diplomacy as well. they want to try something akin to the sunshine policy. but the policy in north korea is

hard to determine for anybody at the moment. charlie: it's a little bit different. i probably should sit down with this guy. what did he say? katy: smart cookie. charlie: the north koreans have said that kim jong-un is interested in sitting down with donald trump. the administration says there are conditions. saudi arabia. his very first stop will be saudi arabia where there will be other muslim countries there. and there will be some big stories coming out of that. it is said the saudi's believe that they have the makings of a very good relationship with donald trump. what might come out of this? katy: donald trump has a relationship previous with saudi arabia. he is a known quantity to them in some respect. this is supposed to be according to the administration.

it will try to foster a better relationship between the world's three top religions. christianity, islam, in judaism. arabia, he's going to israel and that is potentially problematic now. reports from nbc news have confirmed -- the source of the intel that he shared with the russians. so there will be tensions, no doubt, from that. >> the israelis it knowledge that it came from them? the israelis have acknowledged that it came from them? katy: we have not heard directly from the netanyahu government. the relationship between the united states and israel is going to continue on as successfully as it has. paraphrasing it. that there is no question that will add to some tensions

between this white house and the israelis, especially given the january reports that there would be concerns on sharing information with donald trump. reset ofpposed to be a some sort to make donald trump look more presidential. to make him appear larger on an international stage. charlie: trying to deny people from these countries to come. most interesting thing you have read that you think captures that? katy: that is a really hard question. that --he is somebody it is easier to argue now that he is somebody that believes in his own unique vision.

his own ability to get things done. that he doesn't need to do the things are buddy else needs to do. prepare. have advisers that he listens to. he campaigned again on hillary clinton not following the rules but it seems that he doesn't believe he needs to follow the rules from all of the reporting that comes in day in and day out. and to some extent, he hasn't had to follow the rules. you are on msnbc with your own show. how is that going for you? on thet is nice to be other side of the table and asking the questions. and being able to do my own reporting. i am enjoying it a lot and inferior, i should be getting more sleep. i'm not. and you are writing a

book called "unbelievable. a title coming from every day of that campaign, i assume? >> detailing what it was like to be on the campaign trail. and how wild and unbelievable it was. a lot of the stories we were not able to tell and those that did not seem relevant at the time. what was donald trump like behind-the-scenes? what was the media like behind-the-scenes? what were the rallies like? visibilityt have any in which someone is going to come up to you. the presidency, the country, what going to happen. katy: that is the only conversation i'm going to have. it is a conversation i've been having for two years. nbc news.,

back in a moment, stay with us. ♪

charlie: in 1967, jann wnenner called -- music group rolling stone. the magazine also became a destination for the talent of the day, attracting many.

they said, i was given the room and the range to kick ass. very few places will give you that. nner, he is also the head of rolling stone's parent a group wenner media. and gus wenner. of rolling stone. what an amazing book and what an amazing journey it has been politics and personalities. way back when, what were you thinking? and howted to have fun much i enjoyed. found out i was going to be in a band. what i kind of knew how to do was journalism.

i worked on a newspaper in high school. magazine or a good any kind about lead at the time about rock 'n roll and what had become known, about something. it had a social purpose and it wasn't just a phenomenon for teenage girls. we started taking music on its own terms, respectful of what the musicians are intending. we were like evangelists early on. what musicians wanted to communicate to their audience and to each other. and the destination. and they respect us and gave amazing interviews. way, it was always could afford to print.

to bring it down in size and finally change the paper quality. so i think that's when it became the magazine. ben white was working with you at that time. how many people? jann: may be five or six people. all volunteers. i did not pay. we didn't hire the first full-time person until your later and he said to me, you've got to pay me. i've got a part-time job at the zoo and i can't do both. we made a deal and he got $25 a week. we have 700 employees, competitive salaries. this is richard talking about the family album reports he did. you will like this march through history. during the 1976 election, it marked the start of the

relationship with rolling stone. one more great artist. this was done for rolling stone magazine in 1976. whole series of photographs. tell me what this is about. there's george bush. 1976. the acting director. what was this about? portrait, i have many choices. to be completely subjective, balance subjectivity with objectivity, or complete the interview. means there are bankers. there are union heads. everyone sees this. anyip it cheaply in

direction, it is very dangerous. i have no deep feelings about politicians. case, i pulled back and whatever they wanted to show, i showed. >> in 1976, when we were less than 10 years old, that we would have the audacity to defy the american establishment. that is ballsy. pictures of a great george bush and a range of other people. gus, i will get to you in a moment. [laughter] the writing, did it have, from the beginning, a style? or did it come with people like that?

people write their own style. insisted upon accurate reporting, good writing. the articles can be about something. you can operate within that range. to a number of wonderful writers. charlie: roll tape. this is talking about new journalism. >> it is technical. it is a scene by scene construction, from one scene to another.

extensive dialogue. it is the most readable thing in prose. notation, whate people wear, what their furniture is like. how do they treat superiors or inferiors? keenie: so you have a that?nd observant eye on >> a think so. the use of what henry james called point of view. and that is the inside of someone's head. that scene you are presenting, that you can possibly do it. that, you have to have interviewed your subject extensively.

you have to believe that that subject is telling you the truth. >> this gets incorporated into the mindset of the magazine. curious waysthis of american culture. writers and the work he did is just brilliant. it was a story that he lived in. i was delighted to work with him. hunter was so generous. personality and fun to be with. reporter.reat and telling the truth. and a great writer about himself.

we love and her member that. all the crazy stuff he did. place.to a doing this thing or that thing. charlie: what about you? you became part of the scene in terms of the culture of rock and roll. gus: well, you know, you have to be on the scene. be aware of what going on. we went lots of places. and it's fun. amazing access to all kinds of , events, and situations. charlie: we will come back to gus and others. november 9, 1967. there it is. jann: that would be john lennon. and a little movie called "how i won the war.

fortuitousncredibly thing. john lennon would be our first cover. office, the original there you are. jann: that was my first office. table, it has a relationship to this table. john had been moved to new york, and i like the table, not can i buy your table and you said, i will get back to you. next day andthe said no, you can't. that i know where you can get one. this is just with you and mick jagger. we were announcing the

partnership and we wanted to publish when we were still in england. an ambitious, naive, and wonderful thing to do. how long have you wanted to work for rolling stone? gus: probably as long as i've been working for a long time. charlie: what happened? gus: after i graduated school, i had some time. and i wanted to work there and learn something. with no intentions of it turning into anything more. we discussed it and you echoed the same sentiment. it was an incredible nine months . i was planning to stop working and my dad took me out to lunch and asked me if i would run the website. with this 19?

gus: this was about 2013. and what is your role now? gus: i run the digital operations of the business and i oversee marketing across the company. ♪

charlie: where are you in terms of the 50th anniversary? gus: personally? i am doing three things. i enjoy being part of the magazine and all the excitement that comes with it. secondly, i'm working with gus to look at new things for us to do. outside of using the brand and what we do, our skills. we are very excited about that. and gus is helping me. sometime in the near future, we will look at the transition.

charlie: that is pretty exciting. i think it would be wonderful to have a son that you thought might qualify. the come early and to learn. -- some sense of being able this is what your mother and i have started with and we are handing it over to you. jann: i always thought gus was capable of it, but i did not know if you would have time to learn it. that he was just a natural. i do want to sit here and talk about how wonderful he is, but is what arking reward. what is the heart and

soul of rolling stone today? gus: it's not so different from what the heart and soul of rolling stone was when it was founded. i think it's about embracing a worldview that was told through rock 'n roll music. and all the things that come along with it. is it a view that is a companion to rock and roll or does it come from rock and roll? gus: i think both, really. rock and roll promoted the view. independence, stepping to the establishment. and a lot has changed in the last 50 years and we have changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. , the music and what it means. what it represents to young people.

jann: i have gotten wiser and more patient. but my fundamental commitment to music is remaining the same. rolling stone has been a mission to me. it has evolved over that time with a growing professionalism and with music itself. having a full-time voice and a national conversation. talking to presidents, talking about the issues. clinton, others, and candidates. i am a good interviewer, charlie. i recommend a good interviewer. there is that place in the conversation. it is meaningful to me. and in terms of

national politics. and the culture. the culture should always be changing. it is designed to evolve and be contemporary. so we're always on the leading edge of that. and through the coverage, you learn so much about what society is about. >> the culture is part of the continuity. jann: and you read what that society is thinking and doing. and who defines that culture? charlie: do you have any musical talent? jann: minor. i can sing along with records really well. and gus outpaces me at that. he plays the guitar really well. charlie: did you think you could be a musician? gus: at one time, i thought that

but i'm better at business. i would say, i would feel really guilty to take that away from him. but he was so good at something and a real natural skill and talent for managing people and running things. do you really want to live the lifestyle? charlie: i'm tired of the road. i can come back and do studio stuff. you wanted to make sure. you wanted to make damn sure. load it up as much as you could? jann: i wanted to major he could do it and that he was comfortable with it and he could -- he was right for it. i never asked him something he did not feel like doing.

charlie: where would it go? because we live in a different world of which he's in charge of? it presents new opportunities, new challenges? gus: it absolutely presents new opportunities. the brand now exists as a magazine, but it also has a readership of close to 30 million online. more than 20 million across social media. we have more platforms than we can imagine to tell stories on. it's a very exciting prospect. our future is very much figuring out how we tell the same quality of stories but in new mediums and on different platforms. does rock 'n roll have the same impact today? jann: yes and no. charlie: there is hip-hop and

rap. .ann: i include hip-hop and rap i define rock 'n roll very broadly. .nd it can be just as impactful we saw a kind of perfect storm , theving the beatles stones, all working together at the same time and bouncing off each other. paris when you had a picasso and everyone working together. charlie: that time leading up to world war ii. gus: a and creative area. you have the older people still performing at their peak. on the road. you have enough generation.

extraordinary performance. charlie: and there it was, paul mccartney. jann: the young people are so obsessed with it. gus: we started an entire division of rolling stone called rolling stone country and we have offices in nashville.

it is more interest -- jann: it is more interesting to people. it crosses generations of musicians. it has more impact. is a lot of young people. charlie: it crosses borders and is transnational. i want to show a couple of slides. image six is spring -- springsteen. august 1973. look at this. cover of rolling stone. the boss in new jersey. the next one is very interesting -- jann: shout out to bruce. one of the most compelling and interesting guys. one of the greatest performers in the world with a social consciousness. show, it's like a

rock 'n roll -- charlie: i don't know if anybody tops this. i have never known a performer give more than bruce springsteen. and for a longer time. jann: it was the greatest time of my life and he's one of the people i love the best. charlie: september of 1977, here it is. i'm not sure why he chose that photograph. him and his golden peak. the entire office within five

days after he got here. he died. they get this issue out on the deadline. generationam of your or you are of my generation. when he was young, the handsomest man that ever lived. a white mane of that adapted black music. jann: and the voice. one of the best ever. this is bono. jann: my man. charlie: getting ready to start another tour. -- thet looks like reviews and rolling stone, it was fantastic. this was the interview i did with him and we spent three days together in mexico. and gus came with me on that trip.

he set her on talked for three days. -- he was eloquent beyond belief and generous. charlie: one more and we will come back to the story. image nine is janet jackson. a very nice cover. made an appointment with me. day, and said, we have this idea for a rolling stone cover. he painted me that picture. just like that. look at that cover. charlie: and good for you, making the decision. image 10. tupac. gus: an amazing cover. first of all, what a beautiful man and person and poet.

they inducted him into the rock 'n roll hall of fame and snoop dogg did the instruction. introductionquent understanding how important he was. image 12. it you fell in love with him, didn't you? who couldn't? is stylish, eloquent, at ease with himself. not only her heart went out but .our belief and possibility on the job,istakes but he never lost that sense of ease or his devotion to the country. it, witty, and a pleasure. image 13.

hunter s thompson. you've got to come out here. he gave me so many great conversations at this table. jann: just whip smart and wit funny. had a great time. charlie: 50 years of rolling stone. that time of my life, when he died. right to doad the and the right decision. a very sad time. and ite had become ill was clear he wasn't going to get better. i was afraid he would end up in some kind of home, institutionalized.

and he would not be able to live that way. he wrote a suicide note. you had a story that led to a lawsuit. university of virginia. with good intent, to do a story about it. we decided that rape on campus is a big problem in this country and needed a closer look. we spent nine months , what wasing title ix being done. how to report rate. and the difficulty of handling it on campus. the underlying story was fine. but unfortunately, the case we used is the opening illustration and it turned out to be given to us by someone who made it up. and in our effort to bend over

words for victims of rape, we were less than challenging. and it turned out to be an untrue story and we paid the price. we got the bad publicity. the lawsuit was settled amicably. 50 years of doing these kinds of -- on that story, yes person,tale of this one which we got wrong. it hurt people. it was a whole unpleasant episode. i don't think it undercut our credibility. on every bulletproof kind of controversial subject you can imagine. this is one of those things that happens in life. it you live with it and go through it.

>> what would be second? >> i don't think we've had a problem like that. charlie: you had some acquisitions. jann: we started men's journal. weekly. us , sold that.ut >> like a serial entrepreneur. >> publishing magazines in my blood. charlie: do they have a future? jann: magazines? they do. it is changing. parts of the media. just something about giving something away free over the internet. it's got a good aspects and bad aspects. we are navigating that like everyone else. the commitment is to the quality level.

and we will maintain that. and as gus said, we have 30 million people a month going to the website. we are building big audiences. we are just in transition. >> you're working for the old man now. you get a sense of his passion for culture and politics and this magazine. magazines are having a rough go. magazines are thinner than we have ever imagined them. the digital age is upon us. but what is he? what does he represent to you? a father? greatt has been the pleasure of my life to work so closely with him on a personal ofel and the great pleasure

my life to work with him on a professional level. learning from him, watching him think, his instincts. and passion. i have flipped through that book or watched the documentary coming up on hbo. it is on spidering. you said my dad's skill is an editor and he used that skill to capture the hearts and minds of a generation. my focus is far more on what we can do as the business. those of us that of been alive to the 50 years of rolling stone, it is been a reflection of our culture and we owe a debt wenner.tude to jann in some cases, becoming a friend. from somebody i admire very much, that is great to hear.

charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

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