>> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. charlie: we begin this evening with politics. the new york times reports this evening that president trump asked former fbi director james comey in february to terminate the investigation of michael flynn. the white house has denied any wrongdoing. the president technologist and defended the position as his absolute right in a series of tweets early tuesday morning. the news has intensified criticism of the trump administration's alleged ties to

russia that dates back. jann wenner -- katy tur has covered donald trump since the beginning. charlie: this is the first time you have been back since i was away for a while. katy: and since the election. charlie: i don't know where to start. katy: it has been really quiet. charlie: david brooks had a call today that said the world is led by a child. we have the story coming up, the trump askedaying him to end the investigation. you got the classified information that was released in conversation, that is a controversy. where is it all going? how do you comprehend this? katy: it is hard to say where it is all going.

but take this. we were calling it seven days in may, but i think now we have updated it to call it eight days in may. charlie: which is famous. katy: one week ago yesterday sally yates was testifying in front of congress, on tuesday, donald trump fired fbi director comey. we are told he did so at the request of the deputy attorney general. on wednesday he met with russian officials in the oval office. charlie: that is where a line of photographers came in. katy: just the russian photographers were allowed in. there was a report saying they were duped. the russians were not telling them this was a media outlet. nbc news has the exclusive interview in which he tells lester holt that i was always going to fire comey and yes i was thinking about russia when i was considering doing that. not that he took the recommendation of the deputy ag. charlie: i wanted to ask you this and you will probably know.

he said that, yes, i was thinking about russia, did he mean, i knew by doing this it would create a flurry of criticism of me about russia? katy: i don't know what he thought he was doing at that time. it is hard to buy that he knew it would create a flurry of criticism and that is why he did it. i'm not so sure. that is a generous reading of it. charlie: if he meant to say, i knew everyone would know what i'm doing and therefore, i id technology and what i d because of the russian investigation. katy: from what i have seen and inferred from him, and the conversations i have had with people that have known him for years, he is somebody that wants appear as if he is in control at all times, that he is the one

making the decisions. he also has a tendency, and you can see this in interviews, to go on tangents and be freewheeling. that is the sort of thing that gets them into hot water over and over again, but it is also the thing that enabled him to rise politically. that is why his supporters like him so much. he was not practiced. he said things that were inappropriate and controversial. he didn't back down from anything. charlie: he would take on any power, including china. katy: exactly. it worked for him during the election, obviously. he won. you can argue it has worked for him so far because what have the real consequences meant to the controversies? as far as republican saying, we are not going to stand by this. charlie: mitch mcconnell has said, i wish there was less drama out there because none maybe we could get on with the process of legislating. katy: republicans want to get

their agenda done. when i talked to folks on capitol hill, they say they are happy they have a republican president in power because it will enable them to get the things they want to get done done. they also point to judge neil gorsuch as a victory of this, and the federal judges donald trump will end up appointing. these are the reasons they are sticking behind the president. it's becoming increasingly hard to do so given the political pressure out there and given how right has this create. you hear mitch mcconnell asking for less drama, but at the same time, they are not making real steps to disassociate themselves from this president by and large . you have to point to what a number of republican said on the campaign trail in a hate to always look back, but that is -- the past is our best guide. republicans, including paul ryan, and this is part of the reason donald trump won as well, cap saying over and over again

that hillary clinton was careless of classified information. they took that from james comey. they said because of that, she should not be allowed to have access to classified information. is one of the reasons why they thought she was not fit for office. they are on the record saying this. they are on the record tweeting this. twitter is an amazing thing. you can find everybody's tweet and see what they said. and now, given the circumstances. he admitted to doing it this morning. what do the republicans do going forward? do they stand by previous statements, or prove it is partisan politics? charlie: it is also interesting, his staff and donald trump i looking at the same events and coming up with different interpretations of it. generally people have an admiration of the community they work in.

h.r. mcmasters said there was no disclosure and of source or methods. and then donald trump comes along and says, well, it is my theto share things with russians because i'm trying to enlist them in the fight against terrorism and especially isis. charlie: it was a bit of a red herring yesterday went h.r. mcmasters was talking about sources and methods because that is not what "the washington post" article laid out. donald trump said this morning, this is something the president is allowed to do. he can deem what is classified or he can unclassified things any moment if he feels it is in the national interest. he wants a better relationship with russia. he wants them to work with us to eradicate isis. -- this question was asked her in the briefings of h.r. mcmaster and of sean spicer on his off camera briefings.

was this something donald trump prepared to say? did they go to the appropriate channels to alert them to this? or was this something they decided spur of the moment to share with the russians? the white house, including h.r. mcmaster's, dodged the question. katy: michael morell said, what should his staff have done? he said it is the job of the national security advisor to make sure the president knows what is the protocol and what they can say and what they cannot say. that is what you expect from a national security adviser, to fully inform the president of something very sensitive and you can't refer to it. katy: but what we keep hearing is that donald trump -- listen, he's not a normal president. a's not going to do things normal way. there is reporting out there that suggests instead of full, multipage briefings he just

wants one page with bullet points. and in conversations i have had with those that know him very well, they have said the same thing. he is not somebody that pays attention to the details of things. eh'he's a headline reader. he is a topline reader. he won't get into the weeds on something. policy is not a strong suit for him. we saw that with the health care debate. he said he understood health care within a matter of days so quickly, but in interviews, it seemed to -- that did not seem to be true. he seems to not understand the nitty-gritty of what was out there. charlie: which came out in the interview. katy: and the same thing for intelligence. charlie: how big is the story? the comey memo story. o says donald trump asked him to end the investigation. katy: i think it is a big deal.

the existence of that letter and one line in particular, which is, "i hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting flynn go." this is what donald trump asked director comey. he has a history of creating these paper trails. there is now reporting that there are more paper trails that are classified and they have to do i with conversations he would have at the president. charlie: to write a memo? katy: he would leave the meeting and go to his office, presumably, and write down exactly what happened. the article says he did that because he was worried that certain conversations could come up later and he wanted to have a definitive log of what happened. he is someone who was meticulous about notetaking during his time at the fbi. and there's got to be some of these memos that, potentially, the public can see.

if they are not classified. the issue is, and what is happening right now, there are so many anonymous sources. and richard burr from the senate intelligence committee, the chair, came out and said, this is concerning, but i do want to see someone go on the record. these things have to be attached to a name. charlie: is james comey going to testify on record? katy: that is a good question. from what we have, it seems he will want to get his story out, but it isn't clear in what venue and at what time. charlie: a hearing more -- katy: if it will be an open hearing or a classified hearing. or a closed hearing. i think the public is itching for someone to come out and say, listen, i am going to go on the record with this, with what happened. until this happens, the republicans have that in their firepower.

and frankly, so does donald trump and the administration, to say these are all anonymous sources that are out to get me. charlie: do the democrats have any real leverage when they say they will vote on a fbi director until they see some action? katy: in terms of numbers, no. they don't have the majority control in the senate right now. the republicans do and they can vote on a partyline for an fbi director. the question is, will they have an appetite to make it partisan? or do they want to make sure the director is someone that both the democrats and republicans agree on to make sure the american public knows that they are above politics. that they are fair and impartial and adhering to the law, not any political party. from what we can gather, the republicans want to do something like that. they want someone from within the fbi. someone who is a judge. somebody who does not have an in front of the name. again, it remains to be seen who donald trump nominates and how that process plays out. charlie: let me turn to foreign policy.

first, there is north korea. a big challenge to this president right now. north korea just had another they put- a large one on a rocket. it sort of had the same kind of wouldla that an icbm have, suggesting this was a successful firing of a medium-range missile. katy: yeah. charlie: trump says, the president says, he has a very good relationship with the chinese. the chinese are doing more, that he has promised he will do less in terms of demands about trade if they help him on north korea. are they doing it? is he being successful at that? katy: that is a good question. north korea certainly feels emboldened at the moment from their savior. you can tell by the number of tests they have been doing. north korea, according to

intelligence officials i spoke to in the lead up to the election and in the transition, was going to be, and this is what president obama told trump as well, the north korea was going to be his biggest problem and they needed to watch out for it. is donald trump being successful? charlie: that he is doing what everybody said you had to do, which is to go through the chinese. katy: they have taken out -- there have been some op-eds in their newspapers, essentially state-run newspapers, that have called on the north koreans to alm down, or called on de-escalation of tensions. the south koreans want to try out diplomacy with the new president they just elected, something akin to the sunshine policy. in terms of trumpeting successful with foreign policy in north korea, i think that is hard to determine for anybody at

the moment. charlie: and he is a little bit different. he says, i probably should sit down with this guy. he seems like he is a smart boy. katy: a smart cookie. the north koreans have said that jong un is open to sitting down with donald trump. charlie: that he is now off to saudi arabia, his very first up, where there will be a lot of other heads of other muslim countries there. and there will be perhaps, some big stories coming out of that. believesd the saudi's they have the makings of a very good relationship with donald trump. what might come out of this? katy: donald trump has a relationship previous with saudi arabia. property deals. he is a known quantity to them in some respect. listen, this is supposed to be according to the administration.

a tour that is going to foster, or try to foster a better relationship between the world's three top religions, andstianity, islam, judaism. after saudi arabia, he is going to israel. that is potentially problematic now. reports from nbc news have confirmed. israel was the source of the intel that he shared with the russians. so there will be tensions, no doubt, from that. charlie: have the israelis a knowledge to came from them? and have they said anything so far, other than that sources have been quoted? katy: we have not heard directly from the netanyahu government. the relationship between the united states and israel will continue on successfully as it has, that is paraphrasing it. that there is no question that will add to some tensions between this white house and the

israelis, especially given the january reports that there would be concerns about sharing information with donald trump. it is a hard time to go on this trip. this was those to be a reset of some sort to make donald trump look more presidential, to make him appear larger on an international stage. he had tried to deny people from these countries, these muslim countries, to come to the united states. katy: exactly. charlie: what is the most interesting assessment of him that you have said or read that captures the man? katy: that is a really hard question. somebody whohe's -- it is harder to deny, or easier to argue now, that he is somebody who believes in his his own ability,

to get things done. charlie: his triumphs, experience. katy: exactly. he does not need to do the things that everybody else needs to do. prepare. have advisers that he listens to. follow the rules. he campaigned again on hillary clinton not following the rules, but it seems now he does not believe he needs to follow the rules from all of this reporting that comes up day in and day out. some extent, he has not had to follow the rules. charlie: and now at 2:00 p.m. every day you are on msnbc everyday with your own show. katy: i am. charlie: how is that going? katy: it is going well. it is nice to be on the other side of the table, asking the questions. i enjoying it a lot. and in theory, i should be getting a lot more sleep. i'm not. charlie: you are writing a book called "unbelievable." the title coming from every day

of that campaign, i assume? katy: pretty much. it is detailing what it was like to be on the campaign trail and how wild, and at times, how unbelievable it was. a lot of the stories we were not able to tell, and the stories that did not seem relevant at the time now have a lot of relevance. what was the campaign like behind the scenes? what was donald trump like behind the scenes. what was the media like behind-the-scenes? what were the rallies like? charlie: if you are in the media today, you can go nowhere and were somebody will not come up to you if they see you and ask about donald trump. about the presidency, the country, and what is going to happen to the country. katy: that is the only conversation i have been having for two years. for coming.nk you always good to see you. katy: thank you, charlie. charlie: katy tur, nbc news. back in a moment, stay with us. ♪

charlie: in 1967, a 21-year-old jann wenner launched a rock 'n roll newspaper and he called it "rolling stone." as magazine would become iconic as the musicians, pop stars and world leaders that covered. the magazine became a destination for leading talent of the day, attracting annie leibovitz and richard avedon.

they said, i was given the room and the range to kick ass, and very few places will give you that. joining me now is the man behind "rolling stone," jann wenner. he is also the head of rolling stone's parent group wenner media. i am pleased to have them both at this table to mark this occasion. 50 years. journey it has been through american culture and politics and personalities. that way back then, what were you thinking? >> i was just a rock 'n roll fan, a rock 'n roll crazy kid. i wanted to have something to do with the music. i saw how much life it was giving me and how much joy and pleasure. i quickly found out i was not going to be in a band. what i kind of knew how to do

with journalism. i worked on a college newspaper and a high school was paper. it seems the way in. there was not a good magazine or outlet at the time about rock 'n roll, and what it had become under the beatles, the stones, and dylan. it had a social purpose, as well as high-quality music. it was not just a phenomenon for teenage girls. we started taking music on its own terms and are of what the musicians were intending and started covering it. we were kind of like evangelists early on. we should carry what the musicians what to say and what to communicate to their audience, and to each other. charlie: like the bible. >> and a destination. they respected us from the beginning and gave us interviews. started the way we changing. it started as a newspaper because that is all we could afford to print. along the way it became more

successful. we brought down the size and finally changed the paper quality. and somewhere along the line, we added stapes. charlie: you are then wife was working with you at that time. >> yes. charlie: how many people? four, five? >> maybe five or six people. they did not get paid. we had a person who came up to a year later and said, i have to get paid. time jobt a part at the zoo and i can do both. we made a deal and he got $25 a week. now we have 700 employees, competitive salaries. charlie: this is a clip. the is richard abbott on family album he did. you will like this march through history. during the 1976 election, it marked the start of the relationship with "rolling stone."

it is one margaret artist who found a connection -- it is one more great artist who found a connection with "rolling stone." >> this was done for rolling stone magazine in 1976. there is a whole series of photographs. tell me what this portrait tour is about. there is george bush in 1976. it was then i guess, the cia director. portrait, i have many choices. to be completely subjective, balance subjectivity with objectivity, or be completely objective. this was an election year. the assignment was to do the power elite of this country. that means there are bankers. there are union heads. everyone from cesar chavez to meaning. two tip it cheaply in any

direction, it is very dangerous. i have no feelings about these people. i have no deep feelings about politicians. charlie: what are you trying to reveal? back this case, i pulled and showed whatever they wanted to show show. >> i find it interesting that in 1976, really when we were less than 10 years old that we would have the audacity to decide we would define the american establishment. we would be the arbiter of it. that's ballsy. charlie: those pictures, too, are great. george bush, and the range of other people. gus, we will get to you in a moment. were you born yet? [laughter] charlie: the writing, did it have from the beginning, a style to it?

jann: we let people write their own style. we never try to force a style on them. when i say that we did not have a style, we insisted upon accurate reporting, good writing and that the articles be about something and you learn something from them. and then you can operate within that range. that suited us very well. we had a number of styles. charlie: you said you learned what writing and reporting could be and it began to shape my vision for the magazine. roll tape. mrs. tom wolf -- this is tom wolf talking about new journalism. >> new trail is not complicated. it is technical. you use the devices of fiction. it is a scene by scene construction, from one scene to another.

extensive use of dialogue. dialogue is the most readable thing in prose. another is the notation of status details, that is, what people wear, what their furniture is like, how they treat superiors and inferiors. everything that shows how they might stand in life. i think we are all conscious of this. charlie: so, you have an observant eye for that? >> i think so. it is so important. this is the most controversial thing in the so-called new journalism. the use of what henry james called point of view. and that is the inside of someone's head. not your own as a writer. sceneeone's head, in that you are presenting, if you can possibly do it. in order to do that, you have to have interviewed your subject extensively.

you have to believe that that subject is telling you the truth. charlie: all of this became incorporated into the mindset of the magazine. jann: we had these curious ways of american culture. he was one of the greatest writers of his times, and the work he did was just brilliant. it tells the story of the society that he lived in. i was delighted to work with him. charlie: and then hunter thompson came along. jann: hunter was so generous. just an amazing personality and fun to be with. again, a great reporter. a stylist, a writer, a man on the mission to tell the truth. and a great writer about himself.

he was always his best main character. we love and remember all the crazy stuff he did. and going to a place. hunter, doing this thing or that thing. charlie: what about you? all, you became part of the scene in terms of the culture of rock and roll. gus: well, you know, you have to be on the same to do the job oft i do, and be aware everything going on, and be aware of lots of people and going lots of places, and it's fun. amazing access to all kinds of people and events in situation and concerts. charlie: i am going to show you some covers and we will come back. stone" onis "rolling november 9, 1967. lennonhat would be john

in "how i won the war." that johnerical lennon would be our first cover. charlie: the original office, san francisco, there you are. jann: that was my first office. that table has a relationship to this table. i have told the story, and you have -- i went to a party, and there was this table that had moved to new york, and i like the table, not knowing what it's meeting was to him, and i said, open ro khanna by your table," and you said -- "can i buy your table," and you said no. with you and nick jagger and london in 1969. -- mick jagger in london in

1969. jann: we were announcing the partnership and we wanted to publish when we were still in england. an ambitious, naive, and wonderful thing to do. charlie: gus, you were born when? gus: 1990. charlie: how long have you wanted to work for rolling stone? gus: probably as long as i've been working for a long time. i had other plans. charlie: what happened? gus: after i graduated school, i had some time. i wanted to work there to learn something, with no intentions of it turning into anything more. i think we discussed that, and you echoed the same sentiment. it was an incredible nine months. i was planning to stop working, and my dad took me out to lunch and asked me if i would run the website. charlie: what was this, 19 --

gus: this was about 2013. ago.ie: four years gus: yeah. charlie: and what is your role now? gus: i run the digital gus: i run the digital operations of the business, and i oversee marketing across the company. ♪

charlie: where are you in terms of the 50th anniversary? gus: me personally? i am doing three things. i am enjoying continuing editing the magazine and being a part of that, and all the excitement that comes with it. particularly in times like now. secondly, i'm working with gus to look at new things for us to do, outside of using the brand and what we do, our skills. to look at the other mediums available for us, we are very excited about that. helpingdly, i'm kind of gus -- he's helping me. ou're teaching him and he's teaching you. >> yes. charlie: when will he take over? >> sometime in the near future,

we will look at the transition. charlie: that is pretty exciting. i think it would be wonderful to have a son who you thought might y, to come qualifie > early and learn and have some sense of being able -- this is what your mother and i have started with, and we are handing it over to you. you had better take good care of it, because it is our legacy. jann: i always thought gus was capable of it, but i did not know if he would take time to learn it. that he was just a natural. i do want to sit here and talk about how wonderful he is, but for me, working with my son, what a reward. charlie: what is the heart and

soul of "rolling stone" today? gus: it's not so different from what the heart and soul of "rolling stone" when founded was. i think it's about embracing a worldview that was told through 'n roll music, and all the an -- through rock 'n roll music, and all the things that come along with it. charlie: is it a view that is a companion to rock and roll, or does it come from rock and roll? gus: i think both, really. rock and roll promoted the view. i think it is about freedom, independence, and stepping to the establishment. and a lot has changed in the last 50 years, and we have changed quite a bit in the last 50 years. but i think that at our core is the music and what it means and what it represents to young people. charlie: how have you changed

?ver the course of the magazine jann: i have gotten crinklier, and i have gotten wiser and more patient. but my fundamental commitment to music is remaining the same. rolling stone has been a mission to me. it started with the mission of promoting music, what it was about, and what it stood for, and it has evolved over that period of time with a growing professionalism and with music itself. having a full-time voice and a national conversation. talking to presidents, talking about the issues. charlie: you went down yourself and did an interview with barack obama. n: clinton and others, candidates. charlie: and you are qualified? jann: i am a good interviewer, charlie. i recommend a good interviewer. there is that place in the conversation. it is meaningful to me. charlie: and in terms of

national politics. jann: but also the culture. the culture should always be changing. it is designed to evolve and be contemporary. so we're always on the leading edge of that. and through the coverage of culture, you learn so much about what society is about. more so than what you actually learn from the politics. charlie: culture is a part of the continuity of society. jann: and you read what that society is thinking and doing. and who defines that culture? great artists. charlie: that's right. do you have any musical talent? jann: minor. i can sing along with records really well. i used to play the guitar with gus, but he outpaced me at that. he plays the guitar really well. charlie: did you think you could

be a musician? gus: at one time. i thought that i was better at business been singing, eventually. >> i would say, i would feel really guilty to take that away from him. but he was so good at something and a real natural skill and talent for managing people and running things and being a leader. i said gus, do you really want to live the lifestyle of a musician? i hear them say i'm so tired of the road, i'm just going to come back and do studio stuff. you wanted to make sure. when you thought he might be interested, you wanted to make damn sure. you wanted to load it up as much as you could. jann: i wanted to make sure he could do it and that he was comfortable with it and that he was right for it. i never asked him something he did not feel like doing. charlie: does james have a role?

longer.t charlie: where would it go? does it continue to do what it does, or do you believe that because we live in a different world which is in charge of, it presents new opportunities, new challenges? gus: it absolutely presents new opportunities. the brand now exists as a magazine, but it also has a readership of close to 30 million online. more than 20 million across social media. we have more platforms than we can imagine to tell stories on. that's a very exciting prospect. our future is very much in figuring out how we tell the same quality of stories, but in new mediums and on different platforms. charlie: does rock 'n roll have the same impact today? jann: yes and no.

hi charlie: there is hip-hop and rap. rap: i include hip-hop and in rock 'n roll. i do find it very broadly. and it can be just as impactful. we saw a kind of perfect storm of having the beatles, the stones, all working together at the same time and bouncing off each other. each one trying to top the other. it was like a period in paris when you have picasso and everyone working together. charlie: the period leading up to world war ii. gus: a and creative area. jann: the same with all these musicians. and i think it has evolved just fine. you have powerful people today, older people still performing at their peak, still on the road, still making albums.

you had another generation after that, bruce springsteen and bono. extraordinary performance. so connected with their times. i was in omaha last weekend at a big convention center, and they were looking at what was coming up, and there it was, paul mccartney, coming up in omaha for a concert. jann: he is doing great shows all around the world now. his audience is also young people area they are just so obsessed. -- young people. they are just so obsessed. gus: we started an entire division of rolling stone called rolling stone country and we have offices in nashville. and hip-hop in atlanta. the thing is, although the record business itself is not doing well, because it has moved

,n to other platforms like that music is more widespread, more available than ever, and interesting to more people around the world ever. it crosses generations, it crosses generational musicians, and it has more impact in a way than ever. charlie: it does cross borders. it is transnational. i want to show a couple of slides. image six is springsteen. august 1973. look at this. cover of "rolling stone." there he is, the boss, in new jersey. jann: shout out to bruce. one of the most compelling and interesting guys. one of the greatest performers in the world with a social consciousness. to see his show, it's like a

rock 'n roll evangelical bible gospel -- inspiring beyond believe. charlie: i don't know if anybody tops this. i have never known a performer give more than bruce springsteen, and for a longer time on stage. he's exhausted, you're exhausted, and you walk away and say -- jann: it was the greatest time of my life. he's one of the people i love the best. charlie: and he wrote a fantastic book, i really interesting book. take a look at this. septemberage seven, 27, 1977, the cover of "rolling stone," attributed to elvis. i'm not sure why you chose that photograph. >> it's not our photograph, it was just letting around. it's him at his golden peak in that image.

he had a whole office within five days after he got here. he died. we scrambled, get this issue out on the deadline. charlie: i am of your generation and you are of my generation. when he was young, the handsomest man that ever lived. there was this great sense of a white man who adapted black music. jann: and the voice. one of the best ever. charlie: this is bono. with the glasses. jann: my man. charlie: getting ready to start another tour. jann: he is playing the joshua tree. the "rolling stone" review is fantastic. i plan to see it. this was the interview i did with him. we spent three days together in mexico.

and gus came with me on that trip. we sat around and talked for three days. .ono was a talker a good soul, family friend, a remarkable guy. charlie: a couple and then we will come back to the story. image nine is janet jackson. that's a very nice cover. jann: her record company president made an appointment with me, walked up one day, and said, we have this idea for a "rolling stone" cover. he handed me that picture. he said, you will hand -- you will run that picture. i said, yes we will area -- yes we will. charlie: just like that. and good for you, making the decision. image 10. tupac. gus: an amazing cover. first of all, what a beautiful man and person and poet. but very iconic, i think.

inducted -- we inducted him into the rock 'n roll hall of fame this year. snoop dogg did the introduction. it was an eloquent introduction emphasizing how important he was. charlie: image 12. you fell in love with him, didn't you? jann: who couldn't? not since jack kennedy have we as a president as stylish, young at heart, as eloquent, as at ease with himself, so hip, so inspiring. not only your heart went out, but your belief in the possibility of change for the future. there was hope he ran on. he made mistakes on the job, but he never lost that sense of ease or his devotion to the country. than funny,ss

witty, and a pleasure. charlie: image 13. hunter s thompson. whenever he would go to aspen she would call and say, you've got to come out here. jann: and you would head out. what time did you leave? charlie: i liked him, because he gave so many great conversations at this table. jann: witty, smart, a real southern gentleman. i had a great time being with him. charlie: 50 years, that was "rolling stone." ann: the saddest time of my life, when he died. i think he had the right to do and the right decision. but it was just a very sad time. charlie: because of illness. jann: he was ill and knew he was not going to get better. i was afraid he would end up in

some kind of home, institutionalized. he would not be able to live that way. he wrote a suicide note. "no more fun." charlie: it has not always been a garden of roses. you had a story that led to a lawsuit. university of virginia. with good intent, to do a story about it. jann: we decided that rape on campus is a big problem in this country and needed a closer look. we spent nine months investigating title ix, what was being done. how to report rape. and the difficulty of handling it on campus. the underlying story was fine. nobody ever question that -- questioned that. but, unfortunately, the case we used is the opening illustration and ithorrors of rape, turned out to be given to us by someone who made it up. and in our effort to bend over backwards to victims of rape, we

were less than challenging. charlie: it took responsibility. ann: and it turned out to be an untrue story, and we paid the price. we got the bad publicity. the lawsuit was settled amicably. charlie: people questioned your credibility. because we't think, had 50 years of doing that kind of story. on that story, yes but the tale of this one person, which we got wrong. charlie: and it hurt some people. jann: it hurt people. it was a wholly unpleasant episode. but i don't think it undercut our credibility. ofhave had 50 years first-class journalism that has been bulletproof on every kind of controversial subject you can imagine. this is one of those things that happens in life. you have to just live with it and go through it. charlie: obviously the lowest

point for you in your career. jann: probably, yeah. what would be second? jann: i don't think we've had a problem like that. charlie: you had some acquisitions. jann: we started men's journal. we owned us weekly. build that huge's fish -- built that huge weekly celebrity magazine. you are like a serial entrepreneur, aren't you? >> no, but i have publishing magazines in my blood. charlie: do they have a future? jann: magazines? they do. it is changing. digital is transforming so many parts of the economy, parts of the media. something about giving something away free over the internet is appealing to people. it's got a good aspects and bad aspects. we are navigating that like everyone else. the commitment is to the quality

level in the integrity of what we do, and we will maintain that. and as gus said, we have 30 million people a month going to the website. we are building big audiences. we are making revenues. we are just in transition. charlie: so, gus, you are working for the old man now. gus: yes. charlie: you get a sense of his passion for culture and politics and this magazine. magazines are having a rough go. you take up a lot of magazines and they are thinner than you could have ever imagined them. the digital age is upon us. but what is he? what does he represent to you, other than a father? gus: first of all, it has been the great pleasure of my life to work so closely with him on a also a great pleasure

of my life to work with him on a professional level. just purely learning from him, watching him think, his instincts. and passion. i have flipped through that book or watched the documentary coming up on hbo. it is awe-inspiring. charlie: you said my dad's skill as an editor, and he used that skill to capture the hearts and minds of a generation. i wish i had the gifts he has in that regard, but i don't. my focus is far more on what we can do as the business. those of us that of been alive through the 50 years of rolling stone, it is been a reflection of our culture, and we owe a debt of gratitude to jann wenner. putting together a magazine that we loved, and in some cases became a friend. thank you. congratulations. jann: from somebody i admire

very much, that is great to hear. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

>> you are watching "bloomberg technology." president trump launched out at his critics today during an address of u.s. coast guard officers. of 2017 to the class "fight, fight, fight" when facing challenges in adversity. he says no politician in history has been treated more unfairly than he has. a white house senior official tells bloomberg that president trump has decided not to immediately move the u.s. embassy in israel to jerusalem. .rump had promised such a move the s