♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. today's we begin with shooting in alexandria, virginia. the majority with of the house of representatives is in critical condition after a gunman opened fire at a gop congressional baseball practice on wednesday morning. watch her other people have been hospitalized. -- four other people have been hospitalized. the shooter was killed after a shootout with the d.c. capitol police. ae president responded after

statement from the white house, characterizing it as a very, very, very, brutal assault, and pledging his support to the families. pres. trump: he is a patriot, and he is a fighter. he will record or from this assault, and steve, i want you to know, that you have the prayers not only of the entire city behind you, but of the entire nation, and frankly, the entire world. to a reportturn from cbs evening news with scott pelley. >> the third ranking republican in the house is in critical condition tonight after a had shaken this great capital. but it has also left the capital it has been ahan very long time. [gunfire] >> the gunman opened fire this

morning on republican members of the house and senate at a ball in alexandria, virginia. for were practicing tomorrow night's charity game to be played against a team of democrats. todd rokita book, including the four-year-old -- the 40-year-old congressman, were shot. four people were hospitalized, suffered minor injuries to read we have extensive coverage from a team of correspondence and first world reporter chip reid in alexandria. after 7:00 a.m., batting practice was wrapping up when the first shots rang out. bystanders video capture the sound of bullets tearing through the air. congressman sprinted to the dugout, where they said they felt like sitting ducks.

today i experienced the carnage of actual gun shots being fired firsthand. it was horrific. it became a shootout between the shooter and police. manager of the team was there with his 10-year-old son, jack, and took cover under in your by suv. >> dozens, if not hundreds of shots fired. it was scary. >> congressman rodney davis was taking batting practice with the shots began. noise, and theud large piece of metal, and the ng i heard was run, he has got it done. gunmen -- >> the gunmen never got the field. republican member steve scalise was at second base, and shot first. schooley's drags himself across the field, leaving a trail -- se draggedscali

himself across the field, leaving a trail of blood. >> we tried to stop the bleeding there. staff member for progress in roger williams, and matt mika, who used to work on the hill but now is a lobbyist for tyson foods. two police officers, members scalise's's -- steve security team, were shot as well. congressman williams, who injured his ankle during the shooting, said without the special forces, there could have been a massacre. >> it could have easily been 25 deaths are more today, but officers writer and bailey prevented that, and my family and i will be forever grateful. >> congressman jeff duncan left before the shooting began, but he says he believes he encountered the government -- govern -- gunmen as he was leaving. >> he asked if it was a

republican team or a democrat team, i said they were republican, he said thanks and turned around. >> later, others still had their uniforms on, trying to process how to move on. >> will we have to member is this. the american people are great people, and we have great values. represent people every day. >> and all, four people were shot by the assailant. congressman scott leases in critical condition after surgery. lobbyist matt mika is also in critical condition after being shot twice in the chest. officer greiner's was shot in the ankle, and is in good condition and has been released, and members of the house and decided to not give in to fear, the annual congressional baseball game will be held as scheduled tomorrow. >> chip reid at the scene of the

assault said there was rare unity on capitol hill. >> a show of force of the capital today, long security lines, and armed patrols guarding a shaken congress. --hsler cannot let them win >> we cannot let them win. us is anack on one of attack on all of us. [applause] this attack wounded a very well-known member. >> he is still not here yet. >> as house majority whip, steve scalise is responsible for counting votes and changing minds, or roll reserve for those with the power of persuasion. >> i have never seen him in a bad mood. goalies, most rank-and-file members do not have a security detail.

this woman got a menacing enough today -- one down, 216 to go. another man who threatened another congresswoman will be released this week -- arrange this week. i said, when this man was arrested, making threats against me, threats of violence and act of violence are not so far apart. some members asked if they could use campaign funds to pay for more protection. others say they are not sure this is the answer. >> at the end of the day, i like that i can drive to the grocery store and talk to women and men in the produce department about what is going on. >> many lawmakers think they need to turn the microscope on the cells -- on themselves, and turning down the rhetoric that has divided the nation >> we need your number that we are first americans. >> joining us now from

washington, congressman chuck feinstein. i am pleased to have him here to take us to the scene of this tragedy that took place around 7:00 a.m., a few minutes after 7:00 in traverse, virginia -- alexandria, virginia. i do this was difficult seeing colleagues shot and being there. set for us losing it into this event and what it means, and why -- ony people can vote both parties were coming there to play this game? >> for over 100 years, democrats and republicans have played an annual baseball game for charity . when i came to congress seven years ago, i found out that my party, the republican party, had a baseball team and there was an annual game. every year, i have gone out to do that. it is tremendous, there is bipartisan support for the game,

baseball is america's great game and it raises a lot of money for charity. members on both sides of the aisle take this seriously, folks like myself will go out and practice every day for about a month and a half, and the big game is set for tomorrow and will go on as planned. i think that is very important. charlie: as it was said by someone this morning, it is important for democracy to say that we will continue no matter what. right.are absolutely we cannot let the bad guys win. there are too many bad guys in this country and this world, but the american people are great people, we are good people with when somethingnd happens the magnitude of what happens today, charlie, it was horrific. to be there, almost being killed, almost being shot, was horrible. but we cannot let the bad guys win. baseball is something that brings americans together, and let's hope that out of this horrible tragedy, our country

can come together, because we really do need to come together. charlie: give me the timeline as to what happened when you first heard gunshots. >> we were close to the conclusion of our practice, and so i go out and stretch in the outfield. i go to the left field to do my push-ups and stretches, and as i was walking in i did not realize, because i did not see that the shooter was actually on that side of the field. i feel so fortunate because i could have been an easy first shot for him. as i got in and walked and approached the batting cage, close to home plate and on the third base side, i heard one large boom, a large crack. i did not realize at that time that that was a gunshot. it was loud, there was no sense of alarm at that point in time until about 10 seconds later, when the shooter opened up with alee a -- with literally barrage of gunfire.

there were probably 50 or 60 shots. there was chaos on the field. groundright down to the until i made a --, about a daasshor's -- a made a about a minute or so later and jumped in the dugout on the first base side. charlie: where was the shooter? understand,inally he was on the third base side of the infield, outside the fence. as i understood on later accounts, he made a move towards the other side of the field, where the capitol police engaged him, our collateral -- capitol police observes that a great job and two of them were hurt unfortunately, severely. with schooley was shot, some others were shot. -- whip scalise went down, some others were shot.

charlie: did you see him go down? >> i did not, i saw him on the field attempting to move. charlie: hopefully trying to crawl out of the range of the gunfire, i assume. >> congressman scalise is a dear friend, we practice among threat -- practice almost every day. they got he was there, because that is the only reason we have protection, was the security detail in the capitol police. if we had not had the net that day, we would have seen a lot more injured and dead people that day on the field. charlie: and they are called heroes because they only had handguns, i assume, and took fire as they took down the gunmen. >> absolutely they did. when i finally made it to the dugout, the fire from the gunmen was continuing and i heard return prior -- fire from the capitol police, and it was nice to know that something was being done to deter the gunmen, -- gun

in, because everybody's mind the dugout, including some children, was that the shooter might actually attempts to come into the dugout. that was the case it would have been a disaster, because nobody was armed in the dugout. charlie: this is the 154th mass shooting. >> yes. charlie: that is extraordinary. how do we stop this? well, i think we have to realize that unfortunately, there are some people in america who are bad people, whether it is their ideology, compelled by radical islam or in this case, this gentleman looks like he was , sadly, hate of republicans. we have to dress this in this country, the root cause. there are bad people with bad ideas, but we cannot let the bad guys win. they will choose a knife, a long, sometimes the gun, but i made a result today and talked

to a lot of people inside and outside the media today, and the american people are great people without ending set of values. we go to work, we play by the rules, we want our children to be safe and prosper, and we are a great nation. we need to resolve to beat the figure out a way to win. i do not want the bad guys to win. that is why i think the game will go on, and i will be there. part of me is still concerned, i am still a little bit shook up, but both teams, republicans and democrats, are going to go out tomorrow charlie is americans -- tomorrow, charlie, as americans, and that is an important decision. -- message. charlie: they will be there is a show of strength for those who will be playing. absolutely. this will be a tremendous outpouring of support.

traditionally, we get 15,000-20,000 people at the game, and we are hoping for about 50,000. we raised over $60,000 -- six and a thousand dollars -- $600,000 for a d.c. charity. it is bringing america together, and it is still in process. i will go out tomorrow and play my best and do my best. i am slightly injured, but that is the furthest thing from my mind. charlie: you were injured when you through your self into the dugout? >> that is correct. sadly, there was blood everywhere, so my hands, blood -- hands, arms, it needs all got banged up -- and knees. bang up need -- and knees got banged up. charlie: there was a deflection of many of the question because they wanted to get all the facts. we later learned that the --ailant, the government had the gun man had died at the hospital.

but we do not know whether he was out to kill republicans or democrats, or what his motive was, do we? >> i can only tell you what i know. i spoke with my go man -- good friend congress and jeff duncan, who -- congressman jeff duncan, who left the practice earlier than i did. he asked who was practicing out here today, are these republicans? the answer was in the affirmative. it is common for people to come out and watch us play. it has been very safe, so that is an innocuous question most of the time. aese are -- sadly, it was person who had a vendetta against republicans, and he attempted and did carry it out. charlie: and we know from later events and senator sanders said he was a volunteer in some way in the campaign, although nobody remembers him, he was a volunteer in bernie sanders'

think yound i posted that on his facebook. >> i think you have an ideology of hatred and eddie not want to blame anyone other than the shooter, but i think it is a very important sign that the rhetoric in this country sometimes gets so volatile and file on both sides -- file -- vile on both sides, and this gentleman clearly has problems that is deranged in some way to do this to conduct an act of violence like that. i sincerely hope that most americans will realize that despite the differences that we nation,our great members on both sides of the aisle love this country, and i am a conservative republican who represents my district, a very conservative districts, very well, but charlie, not a lot of americans -- not all of america thinks the way i do or my district does.

what we need to come together and unified together, and we cannot let the bad guys win. today, a bad guy did some terrible things to some members and innocent people. let's hope we can curb this in the future. charlie: can you tell us what you know about the condition of congressman sculley's? -- scalise? >> he is a great baseball player, and gets out there every day. he has had two surgeries, he is on the mend, and we are all hoping and praying for a rapid and full recovery. also, there was another gentleman shot in the chest. inaw another staffer shot the leg. we are hoping and praying there will be a full recovery made by all of those who were wounded and injured. charlie: and the two capital people, the officers of the district of columbia capitol police? outstanding heroes.

my heart and thanks go out and all the america should thank those two capitol police officers. not only were they wounded keeping us safe, they heard this gunman at a time when no one else was president to do that. we were sitting ducks, unarmed, and the courage and damage -- carnage and damage would have been a lot worse. but it was for those police officers, who not only did their job, but did their job and enacted and heroism in the fact that they were severely injured and wounded in this attack. charlie: thank you for taking time to come visit us today. >> it is a pleasure, and i thank you sir.

♪ charlie: sam elliott is here, and we are really pleased about that. his baritone drawl and handlebar mustache have become synonymous with american films. he is taken on many committee that comedic role in sitcoms and starred in many indie flicks. his new film is called "the hero." it is called a love letter not only to sam, but to a dying breed of actor in hollywood. here is the trailer. >> lone star barbecue sauce, the perfect partner for your chicken. >> that was great, can you do one more? >> lone star barbecue sauce.

♪ >> have you ever heard of the western appreciation guild? they would like to give you a lifetime achievement award. >> anything else? a job after -- offer, a script? >> nope. >> dad, what are you doing here? >> i have to get back. >> you seem a little lost. >> i did one film i was proud of and it was four -- 40 years ago. lee, charlotte, charlotte, lee. >> i like to figure people out. >> what you figure out about me? >> i'm such a huge fan. >> i love your mustache. >> it loves you too. popularf the most actors of the 1970's, mr. we

jason. -- lee jason. ♪ >> how old are you? >> how old are you? >> 71. >>♪ why do you need to know how old i am? >> this thing seems a little weird. >> if this is bothering you, i will go. i want to get past this. i want to get past this. >> you can't just decide when to fix things. >> give me a chance to try. ♪ >> i wanted a warm heart for so many years. ♪ >> coffee?

>> yes, folders. charlie: it is great to have you here. elliott: thank you, charlie. charlie: so what is he about? >> he is an over the hill actor who has been gone for a long time, and makes his living as a voiceover actor at this point. he is known for one film that market, and western he has paid the price along the way. he has lost his connection to his family, he and his wife are separated, divorced, his daughter is on the outs with him, he no longer works and smokes to watch -- smokes too much marijuana and drinks too counterd gets a diagnosis at the top of the movie, and spent -- cancer diagnosis at the top of the

movie, and spends the bulk of the film going over the mess he has made of it. do you feel like this parallels you? yes, it really does in some way. there are four exceptions. i am still happily married after 33 years, we have been together for 39 years. -- aughter charlie: where did you meet? mr. elliott: we met on the set of a film called "the legacy." charlie: i also don't have cancer, -- mr. elliott: i also don't have cancer, i love my daughter, and i don't smoke a lot of dope. charlie: you are on netflix, you are in a lot of places. like i said, i have no idea.

paper trail,the now. it is peaks and values, and i have had a wonderful career. it has been over 29 years now, and to still be added doing something i love -- at it doing something i loved as a kid is pretty amazing. charlie: your father, when you told him he wanted -- you wanted to be an actor he did not think that was the right thing to do. mr. elliott: no, he said that was the only way -- that i cannot make a living that way in a small town. i think you would be tickled right now. he died at a young age. mr. elliott: -- charlie: and you and a hollywood? mr. elliott: i did, in spite of my young age. charlie: and what about your voice? mr. elliott: it is distinctive. that is the end of it. my mom to be missing a cherub choir -- took me to saying in a -- sing in a cherub choir when i

was five years old. i grew up singing solos, was in bands, and in terms of development, there is a key to it. i had some advice when i was looking for an agent, one of the earlier agents i had an encounter with encourage me to death with encourage me to go -- with encouraged me to go back and say in the construction business, but then i had some diction lessons and learned how to speak. my mom and her very close. -- unlike mymy dad dad, lived to be a week shy of 97. she encouraged me to pursue my dream, you know, and was always encouraging. i will never quit.

i grew up with a rich family, my , was a solid-lived man's man. thatd a group of peers were all men's men that were all men's men network in the fish and wildlife service. i spent a lot of my childhood men, and,ith these you know? it was a wonderful way to start. mr. elliott: and then you found -- charlie: and then you found a good woman. mr. elliott: i did. and she is in the film. she did us a favor of coming to play the small role of my ex-wife, very strange for both of us on some levels. but it is always a joy to work with her. charlie: tell us how the film was created, because brett and you are traveling around together. on elliott: we were working a film called "the see of my my dreams,"sea of

and were traveling a lot. he is a very katie boy from brooklyn, and could do whatever he wanted to. charlie: and he was writing it all down? mr. elliott: he was writing it all down in there. they came up with this script, and it is the high point of my career mr. elliott: it is the high point of my career and it has been almost 49 years. that i feelnough like i went off on a high note. charlie: why is it a high note? mr. elliott: i think it is a combination of the story, an opportunity to do things i have never done. i have never played an actor before, and i think the commonality of me and this ,haracter come in between that script,script, mark's

it was the ideal situation. charlie: this is the best time of your life. how do you enjoy it? simply let it wash over you? mr. elliott: as catherine reminded me as i left the house in malibu to come east to do this leg of the fresh to her, she said to keep it in perspective. i think that is pretty wise and sage advice. i am just trying to enjoy it and keep in mind that i'm doing what i wanted to do as a child. charlie: how lucky we are. those of us who get to do what we wanted to. the film. mr. elliott: yeah, and in some way, one might look at it as a frivolous pursuit, in light of but irld we are in today, just look at it as the entertainment is less.

and that is one of the other things that keeps me balance. beis a wonderful thing to able to have someone. i am on every page of it and every scene of it. it is an opportunity for people shedme in, have a chuckle, a tear, and walked out for filled. charlie: is part of this being the leading man? mr. elliott: i have been the leading man before. i have more often than the character actor, and a much prefer being the character actor. charlie: why do you prefer the character actor? less of at: it feels responsibility. maybe i have not thought like i was truly up for it were up to it. charlie: i don't think that. mr. elliott: i don't think that

anymore. charlie: you know you are up to it. mr. elliott: i know after this job that i am up to it. charlie: doing this and what you believe you achieved here, it confirms her confidence that you can do anything. mr. elliott: i have more confidence now as an actor than i ever had. it doesn't mean i don't get nervous. we shoot this in front of a live audience. charlie: is it because you worry about your lines? mr. elliott: more that can anything. -- that than anything. charlie: that never gets easier, does it? mr. elliott: not for me. charlie: you have tricks? mr. elliott: nope. i just practice and keep listening to it and hope it sits at some point. charlie: just keep doing it and doing it and doing it. so, there is a point -- i am not an actor, -- mr. elliott: i have seen you

act. [laughter] charlie: and you know why i said i am not an actor. mr. elliott: no, you played yourself. charlie: indeed. mr. elliott: that is not an easy thing to do. charlie: george clooney said "you have done the best charlie rose i had ever seen." mr. elliott: ben johnson told me i -- he may not be a very good actor, but nobody can played ben johnson like i can. i have always kept that in mind. charlie: here is what is interesting about you. everyone knows -- if you say sam elliott, they know what that means. laconic,voice, integrity, all of those things. mr. elliott: you are very kind to say that. it is not true that everybody knows by any stretch. but i would like to think those are true. i know i am very laconic.

i would like to think i have got plenty of integrity. charlie: everybody in hollywood everyone in hollywood knows that if they say "give me a sam elliott," they know what that is. mr. elliott: i am being glib about it. i guess it is great to be a type, you know? i was typed as a westerner for a long, long time, and i used to bristle at that, but i have made peace with it and i realize that if it were not for that, i probably would not have the career i have and i would not be playing this lead guy who is known for his western, probably. charlie: what is your one movie? mr. elliott: this one. this one. this is the time. i have a number of favorite films that are dear to my heart, and the thing that makes films

by favorite or not is primarily the people that i work with along the way during the production. i have never had one that i was able to do and work with the people that i worked with. charlie: a lot of people say to me that one of the things i most like about acting is a film creates a community. there can be fiction in a community. you get to know some people because you are working together for a month, six weeks. mr. elliott: like gypsies. and when it is over, it is over. charlie: when we look back over is life we have been talking about, you don't have, you know, this driving regret

about anything? or mr. opportunity -- or missed opportunity? mr. elliott: should have, would have, could have is easy for all of us, but i don't know how i could be sitting here talking to charlie rose and wish that i had done something different. [laughter] mr. elliott: i have had a blessed career and i have been very fortunate to do some things i am proud of and things that have touched people, you know? charlie: for me, in a very different life, people will come up to you, not because there is -- they know you because you were on sunscreen somewhere, but they say "you have made a difference for me in some way. you have helped me learn. you have given me some joy. you helped me understand." mr. elliott: you honored by profession. soldiers. charlie: exactly. mr. elliott: it is a wonderful

thing to be able to do. charlie: i am so happy for you. mr. elliott: thank you so much. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

feature is alatest profile of james mattis. infirst met general mattis

2003 when he was covering iraq for the new york times to the article was published on the heels of president trump's request of a $54 billion increase in defense spending. i am pleased to have my guest back at the table. welcome. where have you been? writing about james mattis? guest: yes. i followed him around for a while on a couple of trips that you made to europe. he went to brussels, the headquarters in nato, lithuania to kind of reassure the people in the baltics about the american commitment. charlie: you just said he is a quote machine? [laughter] mr. elliott: it makes my job easier. charlie: "on your young soldiers -- "on your young shoulders rest of the hopes of mankind. the hunter, not the hunted. the polite, be professional, but always have a plan to kill everyone you meet." is that why he is called mad

dog? mr. elliott: funny about that nickname. i don't think he much cares for it. charlie: evidently, he doesn't. mr. elliott: i asked everybody "where did it come from?" nobody knew. i think it is a misnomer. it does not really fit him, frankly. he does have this colorful reputation, and his language sometimes is extraordinary and know, he, but he, you is a marine on one hand, very, very aggressive. on the other hand, he is a very thoughtful, well read student of history. charlie: i kind of solid. mr. elliott: yeah. what makes really interesting are both those things, the interplay of those two sides of him. charlie: what is his relationship with president trump? mr. elliott: i think it is really good. my sense is that the president has said to mattis and the generals, or more generally, "you guys know what you are doing, go do it."

i think president trump used the "authorization." what has happened is president obama during the course of eight years took a lot of authority away from the generals, away from the pentagon into the white house. you want to do that alone strike, we will fight after you want to do the airstrike, come to us. president trump is pushing that authority back down, and secretary mattis is pushing it to his generals in the field, so that is why you have seen a real uptick in activity, and strikes, special forces raids, that kind of thing. mr. filkins: generals in the field have more authority due to that -- authority to do that. charlie: when did you first meet him? mr. filkins: a new member it very well. it was 2003, during the invasion your general mattis was the head of the first marine division, so he was the head of 25,000 troops. he was a two star general, maybe

one star. i was driving in a rental car through iraq, trying to find my way to baghdad, and i happened to be there with the marines one day when this helicopter came down and general mattis got off and i remember he had apparently been gone and a helmet. even then, on the marines were whispering and saying "there is general mattis." if you remember that time, the entire plan of the invasion was speed. go fast. that is what mattis was doing, essentially, going around to his commanders and saying "go, get to baghdad as fast as possible." i am not sure, in retrospect, it was not his strategy. i am not sure that was the wisest thing. charlie: what was his strategy? mr. filkins: to go as fast as possible. he was essentially ordered to do that by secretary rumsfeld and

the bush administration. take the iraqi regime down. which they did. and of course, you know, chaos. charlie: he is interesting because he seemed to be prepared to say exactly what he thinks, even if it is not what his box set -- his boss says or even believe. mr. filkins: when you go back and look at the career of general mattis, it is 40 years in the military. you know,it is just, one after the other, these extraordinary things. you read something he said to people and you are like " wow, people in public life don't talk way." he is standing up and addressing a graduating class at the naval academy and saying "your job is to go out and kill people, and keep killing them until they give up." the midshipmen are all cheering, but who says that?

charlie: he has more integrity in his little finger than almost anyone in washington, it is said by michelle, a woman who was a possible secretary of defense if hillary clinton had won. so she knows generals. mr. filkins: i think what is interesting about michelle is that she is a democrat, a deputy secretary of defense for president obama. charlie: serving under -- mr. filkins: and nonetheless, mattis reached out to her and said "i would like you to be my deputy." she thought very hard about it and i guess she explained to me that she did not sleep for several days felt sick to her stomach. i think she respects him immensely. i think her dilemma as she spelled it out is that she likes secretary mattis, but was unsure

with working in the trump administration. she said she was interviewed by three people, none of whom had any experience in foreign policy, and one of their first questions was "what would it take for you to resign?" and forthack secretary matus she could not do it. that is one of the biggest problems that secretary matus has had. jobshing like 57 political , appointee jobs in the pentagon, he has only phil two of them. charlie: it is not just defense. mr. filkins: i spoke to a number of people who all said the same thing. but ie secretary mattis, cannot work for president trump." charlie: he wants victory, he wants to kick ass. we are getting this profile of a guy who is tough. very aggressive, wants to win. does not want anything to get in the way. mr. filkins: yes, i think it

raises inevitably this question which i try to discuss in my piece, which is where is that going? aggressiveness to what end? and i think when you look at -- we are at war in five countries in the middle east and all of them are kind of the same in a sense that you have -- charlie: iraq, afghanistan, yemen -- mr. filkins: somalia, syria. they are all kind of the same in the sense of these weak states and you have all these, essentially, nongovernment groups that are challenging the state or fighting in some other way. and how do you and those conflicts? m?w do you end the that is the conundrum that the obama administration faced, that the bush administration faced. no one has been able to sufficiently answer that. charlie: maybe you are speaking

to that in that answer. what you say to people who say there are too many generals around? mr. filkins: it is a good point. i think the danger -- charlie: national security adviser. mr. filkins: i think that the danger is that the foreign policy of the united states is ,elying excessively on force the use of force, and violence, and not enough on diplomacy. charlie: and other tools. mr. filkins: ultimately, wars do or if you annihilate your opponent or reach a political settlement to we are not going to annihilate our opponents. you cannot kill them all. they are being born every day, so you have got to reach an agreement that is satisfactory to them so they go home, and no one has been able to figure it out. charlie: why did he take the job? mr. filkins: that one is real simple.

he is a patriotic american, so when the president of the united states calls you, you salute and say yes. charlie: yes sir. mr. filkins: he was certainly careful. charlie: the other thing you do is make clear to the president you are serving that this is who .ou get, so let us understand i am not going to do what i do not believe in, toe the line for you if i do not think it is the right thing for america. mr. filkins: he made a very clear. he was asked if he got an illegal order, he said "i would be efficient on the columbia river within a couple of days." [laughter] charlie: he uses such great and simple language. history is clear. nations with a strong ally -- with strong allies tried, and those withou -- nations with strong allies thrive, and those without them whither. mr. filkins: that is a very subtle or rebuke of his boss.

president trump, who declared during the campaign that nato successfulmost military alliance in history is obsolete. maybe we will not come to the defense of our european partners. and that, a think, if you speak to people like michelle, that this is the hope of mattis, that he will act as a brake on president trump's impulses. what he has today is bipartisan support in terms of people who speak out, and they ,ay they have great confidence even though they may be questioning the trump administration in one way or the other, including the white house. they do have great confidence in general mcmasters and general mattis. i. filkins: i think that -- iarted this story thinking -- started with that assumption, which is, you know, secretary mattis is kind of the anti-trump, right?

he is sober, well read, very measured, experienced. he has seen war. and i will act as a kind of counterweight to the kind of, you know, chaos in the white house and trump's impulses. i am not sure that is quite -- i think that is true to a certain extent, but not before story, because i think that what president trump has done -- he has given secretary mattis a lot of authority to carry out military strike on his own or at the discretion of his generals. that is a slightly different picture. trump has turned to mattis and said "you do it. do what you need to do." secretary mattis is a marine, so, you know, that is a green light for him to go after the bad guys. described his philosophy by adapting and added attributed to the roman general cordelius, "no better

enemy." in me, you have no better friend and no worse enemy." mr. filkins: it sums up general mattis' experience in iraq, where he served to bring tours -- served two tours. inwas an erratic time 2003-2004. mattis is pretty clear on this point, which is that we are not going to win just by killing everybody. killing all the bad guys. it is not how we are going to get out of this thing. we have to make friends. that is the only way you can win a fight like this. i think he was very clear about that in a way a lot of the generals were not, frankly. charlie: he said, "you are well-off if you have read these writings and if you have studied northern ireland and the efforts and in south africa

following their civil war as you are if you have read sherman." and obviously -- mr. filkins: obviously. [laughter] mr. filkins: think about that. he was talking in an interview he gave -- charlie: how could this be? this is a guy who understands classics. mr. filkins: that is the thing. charlie: and sherman, which was to destroy everything. mr. filkins: burn everything. he was giving an interview to a historian,n official and he was talking about counterinsurgency. there he is, quoting, you know, angela ashes, south africa, desmond tutu. that is what is so interesting about him because he is so well read, and everybody that i talked to who knew him say "i wish you could see his library." charlie: more books than any

general that ever served in america. [laughter] mr. filkins: yes. this is a deeply educated secretary. charlie: having been with the guy, having listened to his quotes, having had many conversations with him, what influence is he going to have? mr. filkins: a lot. i mean, a lot. berlie: how will america different because he is our secretary of defense? mr. filkins: he is very aggressive. ll, he is a general. i think he reaches for his gun, and i think that is -- if you talk to people around him, they will say "what we are doing is reestablishing the american deterrent." if you mess with us, you're going to pay a price. in their criticism of president obama, they would say basically, he was too soft with our enemies

and thereby encouraged our enemies like russia, like north korea. know, if youyou look at the horizon, it is the craziest international environment we have ever seen. it is the middle east, north korea, russia, eastern europe. where is it going to blow up next? ishink the real concern here not the much mattis, but it is mattis by himself, without a state department that is very vigorous or a secretary of state and is very vigorous, without diplomacy, without politics. is that how you run a foreign policy? charlie: thank you, dexter. dexter filkins from new york magazine. thank you. see you next time. ♪

setor: a renewed caps off wall street down for a third day. gold weakening as traders assess the fed more hawkish tone. anchor: mark carney holds rates. 5-3 on theirit decision. betty: the bank of japan, and eventual end to bond buying. what is that going to happen? anchor: the pressure is building on anbang