♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: the washington post dictated -- reported that president trump dictated a statement between his son and a russian lawyer that claimed the meeting had primarily been a russian adoption program subject. this was later shown to be misleading. joining us is philip rucker, the white house bureau chief and analyst for msnbc news. phil, tell me for those who did not read the story, who did not get their daily briefing from

the washington post, how the story has developed. we are talking about the meeting donald trump jr. had with the russian lawyer back in the summer of 2016. the news of that meeting broken the new york times a few weeks ago at the beginning of july. and the story that we detailed in the post yesterday is that president trump personally overruled the advice of his attorneys and his advisers to dictate a statement that would be issued in the name of his run to mislead the public. to intentionally conceal key facts about that meeting in an attempt to spin the story in a sort of less damaging way. that is a new revelation. charlie: is it illegal or otherwise to do that? mr. rucker: no. it is not illegal to deceive the public. it is not illegal to lie to a newspaper. it raises problems because it

happens in the context of robert investigation. the president trying to take an action to influence the public statement of his son in the midst of this investigation. one of the things that mueller is looking into his potential obstruction of justice. some of the president's advisers are concerned that this incident of him crafting the statement himself will draw the interest of the special counsel. charlie: i think the president's spokesperson said that he was sibley doing what any father would do for his son. right, but that's not any father is the president of the united states under investigation for potential obstruction of justice. we are dealing with a criminal investigation here. the rules start to change a little bit. that's why people have lawyers and publicist that can do this work for him. donald trump is increasingly acting like his own lawyer, publicist, and strategist to

shape and manage the russia story from a pr perspective without being sensitive to the legal mr. rucker: ramifications. mr. rucker:his lawyers advised -- to the legal ramifications. charlie: his lawyers advised him not to do this, correct? mr. rucker: they advised him to get as much information as quickly as possible and make it a one-day story. it they knew this would be a damaging story and the information would eventually come out. the information we are talking about is that the meeting was a russianorder for lawyer to provide some negative information about hillary clinton obtained by the russians as part of their effort to help donald trump in the campaign. his advisers knew this would come out eventually so they encouraged a more transparent course of action. the president thought it would be best to talk about the adoptions. to seek a meeting was all about

adoptions and try to cover it up. charlie: do we know what the president knew about the meeting at the time he was writing this statement? mr. rucker: that's a good question the answer is, not totally sure. we don't know if president trump read the email chain before he dictated the statement. i do know from the reporting of my colleagues that the president was fully aware that the meeting was more than just about the adoption issue. and he was intentionally deceptive and misleading and concealing of key information when he put together that statement for his son. charlie: the president of the united states knew when he put together that statement that he was deceptive, misleading, and what else? mr. rucker: and not providing the complete picture. this was a strategic pr move by the president. and charlie, it's keeping with the way he's behaved over many years including in his business life where he likes to manage these things himself.

he had a history of calling the new york tabloids himself, even posing as his own spokesman under a false name. this is totally behavior in keeping with donald trump's past. it's just highly unusual for a president of the u.s. to act this way and overrule the advice of his advisers. charlie: it's his own hubris that allowed him to not follow the advice in this case. what are the implications other than the mueller investigation today? the only other implication would be the president's credibility. it's another example of him misleading the public. there's a long history of falsehoods that he's uttered as president and certainly as a presidential candidate running for the office. it muddies the water. the president's attorney was on meet the press shortly after the statement came out and said

emphatically that president thep had nothing to do with crafting of that statement. it is possible the attorneys did not know about the president's involvement at the time of that interview and learned about it after the fact. but the discovery, the reporting we have had in the washington post exposes all of those talking points as not really -- not true, frankly. thelie: remind me what subject head was for these emails. i wouldn't want to misquote the subject head but it has something to do with clinton and russia. and the email enticing don junior to arrange this meeting. the promise of information that would be incriminating about hillary clinton. campaign dirt, if you will, that was uncovered by the russians as part of their effort to shake the election in trump's favor. they were going to present it to donald trump junior. assume that's why

jared kushner agreed to the meeting? mr. rucker: trump jr. arranged the meeting and invited jared kushner and amana fort -- and manafort to attend. wasintained the meeting adoption issues but the pretext of the meeting was extensively to provide incriminating information. charlie: what can we say about day two of the chief of staff john kelly? mr. rucker: he made it clear that there is a new sheriff in town and made it clear by getting rid of anthony scaramucci. there is a sense of new order and structure and rigor inside the west wing. i think kelly is making all the staff report to him and cutting off this breezy free flow access , instilling discipline around the president.

it's unclear if he will be able to discipline the president himself. but advisers and aids are getting in line at the moment to try to give kelly a chance to make things right. charlie: including the family. mr. rucker: including the family as far as i know. it locked a trump saying she was pleased to be working alongside him. it's very different than working for him. the structure has her and jared kushner reporting to the chief of staff. but they will have their own unique individual access to the president. we know aboutdo the understanding between the president and general kelly? that's a goodker: question. neither has spoken in public about what agreements they reached. i do know that president trump recognizes things are not going great right now.

focusing on the economy. he wants to get tax cuts through. in congress, he's said no major legislative achievement. he's expecting kelly will come in and in still more order, more discipline, and create more tangible achievements the president can call in. -- call a win. charlie: any idea who will succeed scaramucci? mr. rucker: it's a great question. there are a number of people in the mix for that. as theicer resigned press secretary a little over a week ago. at the whiterking house. i think he's functioning, to some degree, as communications director at the moment. ultimately, they will need a permanent replacement and i'm not sure who they will be hiring for that. to say for it fair all intents and purposes, they have moved on from health care

for the time being and are focused on tax reform? mr. rucker: i think that's right. the president may comment and tweet about health care. but there is no active negotiation underway white -- right now. the white house concedes privately that health care is not going anywhere right now. mitch mcconnell is very eager to get going on taxes and other issues. to turn the page on the health care situation. i mentioned a vanity fair article about the editor of the new york times and the editor of the washington post. explain to me the competition that exists today with this story. it's a 24/7 competition between both of our numberms, and between a of other competitors that are doing great journalism out there. i'm friends with people at new york times. i respect and admire their work.

but we are competing for investigative exclusives and ultimately, it's good for the public. we are all trying to find truth and bring light to what happening in washington and around the country. charlie: is it an overstatement to say this is the story of a lifetime? mr. rucker: i think that's an understatement. i've never experienced a story quite like this one. thanks foril rucker, joining us. we will be right back. stay with us. ♪

♪ indecent is the new play from paul a vogel, the tony award winner for best direction and best lighting tells the true story of a controversial 1923 broadway debut of "god of vengeance." and the actors that risk their careers to perform it. indecent is, above all, indecent, in the most complete sense of the word. it is informative and brimming with good faith. want to telltory i you about a play. a play that changed my life. ♪ knownof all the boys i've ♪ [singing]

♪ charlie: joining me now is director rebecca taichman, 10 time tony award-winning producer . and in the interest of full disclosure, she and her husband are supporters of this program of which i am very proud of. this is about a play written way back in 1923. "gods of vengeance." paula vogel read the play had liked it very much. rebecca directed the play.

that and they come to you. how did you end up producing? at theent where i saw it vineyard theatre in new york and it was a relationship i had with paula for many years. 20 years ago, i produced how i learned to draw. they would say, come and see this play. i think it has the sensibilities you are attracted to. the process of my loving the play and then figuring out how to move it to broadway was that it was the most exciting for me because i love the play very much. been -- hadula had never produced on broadway. i felt it would be important on so many levels. charlie: did you call paul and

say, i want to talk to you about this play? play,appened upon this "god of vengeance." i was sort of gob smacked by it. family of sanity trial from the transcript of the 1923 production. the night it opened, they were all tossed in jail. i attended to create a piece that interwoven the transcript of the trial. was very work, but it clear that it was a very important story to tell and i was in -- i was determined to be caretaker of this memory.

fast forward a decade trying to find the right home, the right partner. the audacity to really, it's an incredible way to look at this swath of american and jewish history through the eyes of one piece of art. and sort of articulate this period in time. ultimately, i think the story of the play is one that kind of

, speakingfor courage out in times of hatred. and in times of real sort of againstnd creating art all odds. increasing and they keep telling their story over and over and over again. at a timeo new york of a time of enormous immigration reform. a real cut down of immigrants in the u.s.. it was a pretty audacious move. i think the play calls out for a reminder to love. charlie: homophobia, misogyny, censorship, art, fear. [laughter] what? that in

an hour and a half? ms. roth: what that's exactly wt is such a pertinent play today. those are the subjects we speak about at this table. homophobia, religious persecution, love, the freedom to love who you choose to love. those are subjects we care deeply about. charlie: one historical point. what happened at the trial? was it reversed? ms. roth: eventually. mr. topol: around europe, new

york, he comes to america. he is our way into the story. audience's way of understanding the turbulent journey of the play. charlie: i saw singing and dancing. ms. taichman: i'm so glad you picked up on that. i would say it is a truly unique form. i had never seen anything like this. it was an amazing thing to create and develop. it has an enormous amount of music and dance. -- what we profound

consider street theater. melange.ix, a real it propels us through time. 1907.rt in it is somewhat the zurich that propels us all the way through. what is it about looking at a property you may want to produce? ms. roth: i look at a story that resonates with me personally and hope that it will resonate for others. i look for a story that will enlighten people and maybe give us a different view of the world. i'm a very cautious person in my real life. somehow, in theater, i'm just not afraid to take risks. not afraid to try something that is exciting, different, or shake things up a little bit. i feel it is almost my mission, change minds about

the world as they see it and open their minds, open their eyes. and have them think about things that are tough to take, maybe. things against their grain, and say, ah, there's another way to see this. charlie: how did she put so much in a small amount of time? 94 minutes? i think the play moves in this sort of extraordinary and exquisite way. apollo is able to create tremendous complication and depth. because she has created this character, the stage manager whose heart we really track through the play as well as the playwright. and the love story between these two girls. we are holding on very deeply to people we care about. story kind of swirls around them.

it is communicated with tremendous dexterity and depth. it is sort of like life. 10 minutes later, you blink and it is suddenly 25 years later. did you say that he did not want to produce for a while? i think he realized that it was inflammatory. it was very divisive within the jewish community. after all this happened, from when he wrote it to win it was produced all over the world, in the yiddish theater, and when it moved uptown, at that point, he realized because of it getting shut down that there had to be something about it that was very inflammatory.

ms. taichman: it's really after the holocaust where they were approached by a young theater company asking for the rights. at one timerote it and the times have changed on me. i don't want to produced anymore. he had written this as this wild young man in 1907. the world had radically changed. and i think you felt very protective. and it felt like exactly the wrong time to put this play on. the play was silent for many decades. and suddenly, it had a resurgence in the late 90's, rediscovered. it was after the holocaust where he decided he just didn't feel it was the right thing. charlie: did you love it? ms. taichman: it took my breath

away. how is this young man writing this gorgeous love story between young women? it's like romeo and juliet in the rain. there is a brothel upstairs and downstairs. it is still inherently theatrical. i was totally turned on by it. as a way to appear through history, it was also incredible, an incredible piece of art on many levels. charlie: why did you call paul? thetaichman: paul was perfect person. in so many ways. mr. topol: you have to tell the story about when she was in college. she was the one that suggested it in college. mr. topol: one of her drama teachers suggested that she read the play. this was however many years ago. -- could this man, you know

have such insight into this love? ms. roth: so it's a love letter to theater. and paula,rebecca rich, the entire company, and speaking for myself, it is a love letter to theater. what theater is about and it's also about the moral courage. ms. taichman: the passion to not give up through all these circumstances through the years. they were a group of actors that believed in what they were doing. you can picture the last scene of the play in your mind and the way you need it to and. that carries you through. extended the play and got some enthusiasm about it. it has a closing date? ms. roth: this sunday. we have six weeks of extra joy and it has been miraculous, in fact. we had posted a closing notice which killed me to do because i

love this place of dearly. fiscallyren't being responsible because word-of-mouth is wonderful but people were not telling other people quickly enough. and everyone that got to see the play at that point adored it. we just weren't getting close to our numbers. that is the business of theater. charlie: the joy is when the both of them come together. ms. taichman: and that can happen. this, it was a regret that i couldn't live with. you know this. i would come to the theater and i was in tears because we had posted the closing notice. the rule is you have to post a notice at a certain time. if you change her mind, you had to take it down by a certain time. passed before we

were meant to close and i just pulled down the closing notice. i just did. and i felt that i couldn't not do that. i saw the audience once we announced they were closing. the house was full every night. people were standing on their feet and walking out of the theater going, i can't believe this play is closing. and neither could i. od of time thati i felt i could continue, take the risk, and not have a regret in my life. on the night we were supposed to close, go out and say to the audience we are not closing and would they please tell their friends? and power them to tell their friends to come see this show. we had no tickets sold that week because we were going into the fourth of july holiday which is traditionally a pretty lousy time for theater.

nevermind. he went out and spoke brilliantly. they stood up and cheered. week, we had done better than we had done in our entire run before. we went from zero to $300,000 in a week. it was something like a miracle. mr. topol: it was a little bit like the story -- rebecca had said to me, we thought we weren't going to go anymore. then this miracle happens. the joy, the beauty, the power of the play. you have to run see this thing. you have to see this. all of a sudden, we are doing show after show. charlie: that is what theater does at its best.

roll tape. this is one click we want to show you. >> my name is level. you can call me lou. i am the stage manager tonight. you can usually find me backstage. we have a story to tell you about a play. a play that changed my life. every night, we tell this story. but somehow, i can never remember the end. no matter. i can remember how it begins. moment.tarts with this remember this. ♪ [singing]

charlie: there you go. what do you like most about the directing process? ms. roth: the collaboration. that you choose because you don't like to work solitary. offbecause you feed so much the energy, inspiration, ideas, and talent of so many people. it felt like theater was always in my vocabulary. and when i discovered the potential of having a real point of view, articulating that through that piece of theater and collaborating with a huge family. i am sort of blessed to figure that out. charlie: the collaboration and joy of figuring it out. ms. taichman: sometimes it is

fiscal, too. well.th: you listen you are open to ideas. the designers enjoy the process. while this is 94 years of history, it is also very modern. the appeal to modern audiences is simply because it deals with a theme. confront them today with politics and culture. partly that, and it's a love story that never goes out of style. love is love is love. it is magnificently acted. if you come to the theater to see a good play that's well done, you can be satisfied on that level because it is just beautiful. charlie: congratulations to all of you. much success. it ends on august 6. so you have this week to go to the theater.

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or a little internet machine? [ phone ringing ] hi mom. it makes you wonder... shouldn't we get our phones and internet from the same company? that's why xfinity mobile comes with your internet. you get up to 5 lines of talk and text at no extra cost. [ laughing ] so all you pay for is data. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. call or go to xfinitymobile.com introducing xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. you're searching for something. whoooo. like the perfect deal...

...on the perfect hotel. so wouldn't it be perfect if... ....there was a single site... ...where you could find the... ...right hotel for you at the best price? there is. because tripadvisor now compares... ...prices from over 200 booking... ...sites ...to save you up to 30%... ...on the hotel you want. trust this bird's words. tripadvisor. the latest reviews. the lowest prices. charlie: jeanne moreau, the actress, died on monday at her home in paris. she was 89. she made over 130 movies in a career that spanned seven decades. orson welles once called her the greatest actress in the world. stage began her career on in france.

she captured attention in the late 1950's when she starred in two films. but she remains best known for her role as catherine in francois truffaut's landmark film about a love triangle set against the backdrop of world war i and would become a defining work of the french new wave. it is considered one of the greatest movies ever made. eau jon lester's by taking roles with leading directors. her final appearance on screen was in 2012 at age 84. richard brody of the new yorker once said of her, "jeanne moreau was once a queen of intellect. an idea and an idea of culture that enriched experience, progress, and looked ardently at the times." jeanne moreau visited this table several times over the years. one of the great pleasures is

the opportunity not only to talk to, but to get to know remarkable people. jeanne moreau is one of them. whether at dinner in paris are at this table in new york. so full,alented, spirited, and delightful. she was one-of-a-kind. here's a look at her and the conversations we have done over the years. [singing in french] ♪ charlie: why did you become an actor? ms. moreau: i had to. i had to. i would lie if i said i did it by reaction. i did not like the lives of grown-ups. --etimes the lives of gromis grown-ups did not make sense to me.

but that's not enough. i really had to. that's it. i'm sure that once you are given , aething, if you have a gift piece of land, you have to take care of it. charlie: cultivate it. ms. moreau: we were talking about -- charlie: stay with this. the gift is what? to do what? [laughter] what? basically. ms. moreau: it's to choose to , and forgetlf life, the trueve meaning of life, inside an invented and imagination.

a character, ok? and it is, for me, to accept any provocativenknown reactions. without trying to understand them. the work is not in a construction in the mind. you have to know about the design of the director. but then it goes out of control. of all the characters

you have played, who are truest to you? ms. moreau: none. charlie: nine? one? ms. moreau: no. charlie: not one? how about this one? ms. moreau: no. over 100 films and you can't find a character. ms. moreau: i'm not an actress to look at my navel and find out who i am. let me find uim and i'm going to give that to the public. i would never allow myself to do a thing like that. no. when you are very young, you burn this. is you, you. it is me, me. my ego. . have to kick me out

these people watching. great question. and then there's the third stage. then you let things go through you. it's not you. you discover human nature. it's like i'm a traveler. not on the surface of the earth, sometimes, but deep, deep inside human beings. . discover the ambiguity i accept the darkness and the light. i accept anything. dig toto go inside and find. gold. we use the word "work." so that people don't think we are just idle. [laughter]

you know what i mean? charlie: but his work different for you than for picasso? different for you then for anyone who does what they do? actors,au: actresses, in general, they are very modest. charlie: very modest? [laughter] you think? ms. moreau: yes. big egos, but very modest. charlie: explain that to me. big egos and modesty. i don't get it. ms. moreau: humility and pride. pride andgo is the modesty is the humility. ms. moreau: when you talk about is disgusting. ego. but it is beautiful. you have to have it just to face the world. and you have to have belief in yourself.

life, you're going to portray people that are born in the mind of somebody else. charlie: and you go give life to it on cinema. ms. moreau: yeah. you have to do something crazy somewhere. that's what actors and artists are about. we are not just acting. we feed ourselves through everything that happens around us. to feed herself with everything. charlie: you take from everywhere. ms. moreau: we don't take. we are given. charlie: you receive. you look at art and it influences you. you have conversations, you see things. you read, you talk. ms. moreau: i'm amazed sometimes. i'm not only an actress, i'm a woman. people have conversations with me and they think that i will

enjoy only conversations about cinema. and it bores me to death. charlie: conversations about cinema? ms. moreau: when we talk together, it's different. --now they do that because charlie: actors are one-dimensional. ms. moreau: exactly. but it's not true. some actors know a lot about economy, architecture, about -- i don't know, how to grow oak trees. [speaking french] i work a lot. charlie: you constantly work. ms. moreau: these films are not distributed as they were. there is one i've made that has been bought by sony that is in next june, i

think. and another french film i made is going to be shown next fall. i work a lot. said that thence greatest success you had was your ability to "live without any protection." what did you mean by that? without a safety net? without security? mean,reau: yes, well -- i a marriage doesn't suit me. charlie: why not? ms. moreau: i don't know. i've never lived on anybody's money. i've always been responsible for my family, my close friends. i did not follow the usual path, you know. my -- to stay close to

what is called image. charlie: your images rebellious, independence. to use an american cliche, you marched to your own drummer. ms. moreau: that's it. charlie: that's true. ms. moreau: i'm the drummer and the drum -- charlie: the drummer and the drum major. instinctively, i have chosen to start a new one. charlie: to constantly rejuvenate, take risks. and you probably could have had more start them if you had chosen to -- ms. moreau: my stardom is of a special sort. charlie: what special sort? i'm a side. charlie: meaning what? to moreau: i don't belong any group. i don't know how to explain that.

charlie: try. ms. moreau: i'm not in the star system. i've been working for 45 years. i have a very special relationship with people in this business. i am very lucky. i'm 65. to work as much as i do. doors are open to me. i will direct my next film. charlie: i want to talk about that experience. any regrets? would you have done it the way you've done it? ms. moreau: i never think about the past. i don't want to sound ancient. i don't know. charlie: why directing? it gives you the opportunity for a different kind of creative expression? ms. moreau: of course. and i love actors. charlie: you understand them. ms. moreau: charlie: i do understand them.

i have worked with great people. --t do you understand charlie: what do you understand about actors and actresses? ms. moreau: i'm not frightened of them. a majority of directors are afraid of actors. are very good directors and a very different image of the film they want to make. and then come the actors. and each actor comes with its own personality. go -- oh,ctor will she doesn't do it the way i wanted. there is a different approach. a different approach to say, i want that. i want these characters to be like that. i want the film to be like that. but i leave the door open to something may be richer. issuedng new that may be

-- eschewed from the unexpected. close to actors, you know exactly when something is wrong. [indiscernible] lilly. [indiscernible] >> there won't be a wedding. there won't be a wedding. >> it is too late. something will happen at the last minute. things don't happen before they happen. >> i almost believe you.

i noticed that all the greatest directors i work with and never spoke about the film or the character on the set. charlie: on the set, they would never talk about it? they would never come over and whisper in your ear? ms. moreau: i can't remember that. charlie: of all the directors you have worked with, who were you closest to? funnily,u: very i have been close to all of them, but in a very different manner. because i met them at different moments in my life. orson and i met very early. charlie: orson welles. in 1950.u: i met him you were the youngest, you began when you were 20 or something. awe.oreau: and i was in

charlie: no intimacy? ms. moreau: we were friendly, but i felt like i was like a child with orson. he topol: he was -- charlie: was pretty young at that time. go ahead. ms. moreau: no idea. -- andn i met francois louis was five years younger than i. the relationship was different each time. one, we had a love affair that lasted three years. charlie: how did that work when he is directing you? was a good? ms. moreau: it was very good. we loved one another because of our work. and working together, we talent,ed that we had

both of us. that we were aiming towards the same -- charlie: a personal intimacy, sexual intimacy, and emotional intimacy -- does it help you as an actress? does it make a difference in your performance, do you think? we never said to one another, as if nobody knew about the relationship. when we were on set, it was totally different. i did not use that personal relationship, and he didn't either. it's difficult to explain. but when i started, it was a bit before the new ways. -- the new wave. and there was francois. welles,rked with orson you know.

wave.beyond the new i was attractive and i attracted the artist. the mavericks. i still do. if you weren't an actor, what might you have been? ms. moreau: a cook. charlie: can you cook well? ms. moreau: i am a very good cook. really. charlie: you like to have lots of people over and cook for them? is that food and erotic experience? it is spiritual andy roddick at the same time. erotic at the same time. it is something very special. charlie: do you spend hours in the kitchen? ms. moreau: i do. on fridays and saturdays. charlie: and sunday lunch? ms. moreau: no, because

everything is ready. perfect --ke me to a if i was coming to paris and you wanted to have dinner, assuming we were old friends. and you wanted to have a perfect dinner both in terms of the food and who we would want at the table. charlie: just you -- ms. moreau: just you. [laughter] [singing in french] [speaking in french] ms. moreau: life is a lesson. charlie: an ongoing lesson. ms. moreau: an ongoing lesson. and once you've gotten through the first obstacle, there's

another one afterwards. so many people to discover, so many things to do. it's very enjoyable. devotion. it is beautiful to be young. but life passes by. everybody can't kill themselves around 30. charlie: is it beautiful to be old? ms. moreau: it is. it is beautiful to be alive. stop talking about young and old. stop being afraid of death. that's the big problem. charlie: stop being afraid of the process of life. ms. moreau: of life. jeanne moreau, dead at 89. ♪

♪ betty: tesla burning cash on a model 3. the stock jumping in the after-hours. yvonne: apple almost single-handedly drags wall street higher, pushing the dow to 22,000 for the first time. betty: president trump weighs action against china for alleged violations of intellectual property. yvonne: shinzo abe shakes up his cabinet. they could create a leadership