♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin tonight with president trump's condemnation of hate groups, including white supremacists and neo-nazis in remarks from the white house. his comments, followed bipartisan criticism he did not specifically denounce extremists in violence from a rally in charlottesville, virginia. president trump as i said on : saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence. it has no place in america. we must love each other, show

affection for each other, and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry, and violence. we must rediscover the bonds of love and loyalty that bring us together as americans. racism is evil. those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the kkk, neo-nazis, and white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. charlie: one woman was killed and 19 were injured after a car rammed into a crowd of protesters. the justice department is opening a civil rights investigation. the fallout from the controversy over the president's comments over charlottesville has led to renewed speculation about the future of steve bannon, one of the president's chief political advisers. joining me is major garrett. looking at this from the white

house perspective, what will be the fallout, if any, to the status of people who work as principal advisers to the president? major garrett: let's talk about steve bannon. he's in the biggest jeopardy he's ever been in in the history of the trump white house. his stock has risen and fallen, but that has been true of a lot of senior officials, who have held on and on back into the game, as steve bannon was conspicuously a couple months ago. i am told by those who watch the white house from the outside, advisers. and those within the white house itself that steve bannon has , fallen out of favor. part of it is due to the arrival of the chief of staff, john kelly, who promised the president upon his arrival that he would bring order and discipline to the white house. one of the aspects of that would be to do whatever he could to eliminate the crossfire that goes on within the west wing, the rivalries and the fighting and backbiting.

for a lot of reasons, steve bannon of late has been blamed either for leaking or carrying out efforts to undermine other significant officials within this white house. most conspicuously, the national security advisor, h.r. mcmaster. i'm told upon his arrival, chief of staff kelly wanted to strengthen the position of h.r. mcmaster as the national security adviser, and in so doing, it is quite clear to me that steve bannon's stock has fallen. one well-placed white house source told me that bannon could be gone as soon as the end of this week. i have covered a lot of palace intrigue with this white house, and i must tell you, nothing is definitive until the president decides. but the arrow for steve bannon has never been lower, and his longevity in the white house never been more in question. charlie: but what's interesting

about what you said he may be , fired sooner than what we imagine, if the idea that he's being fired because of his opposition to h.r. mcmaster rather than his support for breitbart, or his support of a -- of certain populist positions that helped the president get elected. major garrett: they come together in a small sense. those that are part of the breitbart news atmosphere, if you will, or echo chamber, have been among those working most aggressively in public and against the interest of h.r. mcmaster. trying to undermine them. today, john mccain, who does not drive a lot of policy at the trump white house, but is still a significant voice, says the attacks on h.r. mcmaster have to stop. they were interpreted as a way of john mccain saying mcmaster is probably safer, and the source of those attacks, which everyone in the white house

believes were set in motion by steve bannon, is much more vulnerable. that was mccain positioning himself against something he thinks may happen the , strengthening of mcmaster and the weakening or possible dismissal of steve bannon. charlie: who supports steve bannon in the white house? major garrett: inside the white house it is hard to know. , the president has a long-standing personal relationship with steve bannon and they have shared a general sense of political ideology around national economic messages. that is something the president has always prided himself on, that bannon understood things the way he did. the president said that i had those ideas first, i was the originalist. nevertheless, they are simpatico ideologically. the biggest backer of steve bannon and the one who may be more influential than anyone else in the white house would be the mercer family, a significant donor to republican causes generally, and a significant donor to president trump, and recently made a very large

contribution to a super pac going after republicans who have been critical of president trump, specifically or less than enthusiastic about the trump agenda overall. they could play as big a role outside the white house as anyone inside the building. charlie: if the president fires steve bannon, knowing people have supported them in the past -- what is the risk to the president if he is outside and in a position to criticize the president? major garrett: it is the same question raised about reince priebus. would he do more harm on the outside than he did working on behalf of the agenda? the same questions have always been raised about steve bannon. would it be better to have him in or out? if the president does make this decision, it will reflect not only his understanding of what will make a functional white house run, but far more than that, general kelly's

understanding of what it means to have a functioning, well-operating white house. if that's what president trump values more than anything else, he will give kelly this latitude to try to create not only a white house that works, but that communicates more directly, is more effective legislatively, and can get into the politics. since he came in with historically low approval ratings, president trump's politics have been about subtraction. his base and support has shrunk. even his most aggressive supporters are more ambivalent than they were when the presidency began. lots of people who are willing give this president a chance have gotten off the trump train. part of the mission of the new chief of staff is to make the white house more functional but also more politically successful. charlie: if this is happening in the white house as we speak, how fierce is he fighting back to keep his job?

major: that's a good question, charlie. i don't have insider tactical hour-by-hour on this, but i do know steve bannon is a survivor. reince priebus was a survivor for a long time. much longer than people expected. reince priebus's shelf life here started to diminish in early february. he lasted much, much longer than that. as i said before with all the , palace intrigue, there are ways to realign alliances. there are ways to get back in favor with the president. there are ways to remind him of allegiances to the past that may be relevant now. a lot of this will boil down to whatever it is steve bannon can bring to the table on his behalf against those he has clashed with on the economic team, the national security team, and what is the overall advice and how seriously is this taken from general kelly to the president

of the united states? charlie: and finally i have this question, who influenced, if anyone, for the president, that informed or influenced his original instinct to the tragedy in charlottesville? major: this is part and parcel of candidate trump's approach to this issue and as president. he doesn't like to wade into the deep specifics about any root causes of right-wing, archconservative either rhetoric or violence. he never has. he has always kept those issues, if he could do it, at arms length. those who defend the president would say because he doesn't , want to get into the underlying details and brand one group completely outside the mainstream, and have to adjudicate some other time. he wants to speak broadly about being against violence and all forms of bigotry and all forms of organized hatred. not getting into whether that is

on the right or left side of the political spectrum. there are those within the president's own set of advisors and the president himself who believe there are nefarious groups that are less than hospitable on the left and sometimes resort to violence. the president doesn't like to adjudicate that. that's what he tells himself. but clearly, the politics of this registered in ways that were first identified and publicly given voice by his daughter. that was the first sign to all of us that this was moving in another direction. when ivanka put out her tweet denouncing right-wing white supremacist groups, you knew over time it would move to the president. it had to go to the vice president, traveling overseas, then the attorney general, then the president. that evolution began with his daughter ivanka, often times a weathervane as to whether the president can handle sensitivity of issues he would just as soon keep at arms length. charlie: major garrett from the cbs white house correspondents,

thank you. we will be right back. stay with us. ♪ charlie: we continue our look

at the violence in charlottesville this weekend with the consideration of its broader implications about race in this country. joining me now from nashville, tennessee is historian jon meacham, and here in new york, reverend al sharpton, founder

and president of the national action network. let me begin with how you saw, as a fellow southerner, how you saw the action in charlottesville, a town that both of us have admired because of its tradition and its education, and the university of virginia. jon: absolutely. it was a tragic example of the perennial american tradition of hate and alienation. i think it has been reported that these groups have started finding blue dots, these blue cities in red states, so that the drama is more pronounced. it's an old tactic. i think they have tragically taken it perhaps from dr. king. i think it was a critical point to take the right place during the movement.

birmingham was a strategic choice because of bull connor. where we are living in right now, 2017, a moment in which the president of the united states cannot find it in his heart or his mind -- one would hope he would find in both races ideally -- to condemn what is evidently the darkest part of the american psyche. i think that until we grapple with that, then we are going to have a continually frustrating conversation about these issues. charlie: are you suggesting he can't find in his heart because he's a racist, or he can't find it in his heart because he's blinded by political strategy? jon: i think the best thing you can say about the president's reaction on saturday is that it was morally ambiguous. that's the best thing you can say. he governs to his base. that's clearly part of his

political strategy. and his base includes people -- not entirely -- but includes people like david duke, who said this weekend, we voted for trump to take our country back. that is what david duke says. and a president, before he was the president, couldn't find it again in his heart or mind to dissociate himself from that kind of vitriol. rev. sharpton: i think he is right. when you look at the fact that many of those that were in this hate rally had on trump cap's, had on caps saying "make america great," it was incumbent upon this president and not only to announce it immediately, but also say, "don't use my name, don't identify me with this." i remember when bob dole told

hate groups, "i don't want your support." the exit sign is for you. this president, during the campaign, would not announce david duke for days, acting like he didn't hear the question. he has never taken them on. it took 48 hours after a young lady was killed for him to denounce these people that engaged in terrorism by name. he denounced the ceo of merck for leaving the economic council in less than an hour. 48 hours, and a young american woman is dead by a self-described white supremacist hate group -- it is frightening to many americans, and an awakening call to others. many of us have been saying all

along the hate hasn't gone anywhere, it just moved to the margins. it has now been emboldened. charlie: america has changed in many ways. where hasn't it changed? rev. sharpton: america has made many strides. you look at the social fabric. in one generation, my mother, she could not vote in her own home town until the age of she 39. lived to see her son being able to run for president. she lived to see an african-american president. we should never underestimate that. and the price paid. we see ceos of major corporations, things that are astonishing, that my mother and grandparents would never have imagined, but we still see the same economic gap. we are still doubly unemployed to whites. we still have about 25% to 40%, when you measure education, from the basics in educational opportunity, and health care disparities.

the life of the majority of african-americans is still at the same percentage points different in major ways that you would count and try to record the data, as it was many years ago. it is just that because society has moved up, it may look different, but the gap is still there. i think we have not been honest about that. in the euphoria of the election of president obama, you hear people who are supposedly invented -- intelligent say we are in a post-racial america. we never were. we were able to achieve these things despite racism and hate.

it is not because it disappeared, but because others persevered, black and white. i think many of us are now beginning to see again, because you don't have to hopeful picture of a president obama who was inclusive, and others. even george bush -- charlie, i have dealt with the last three presidents. i marched on bill clinton about welfare reform bills. but none of them would not not address something as blatant as what we saw this weekend and take two days to do it. charlie: and when he does, is it too little too late? rev. sharpton: it is too little too late, and woefully inadequate. he did not address that it was domestic terrorism. he did not address these people that associate themselves with him. he had a responsibility to do that. when we have had marches and situations that people said

things that were vile, we had to deal with it. he had more of an obligation to do it as the president. charlie: why didn't he? rev. sharpton: the easy way out is to call him a name, but that would be easy for me and easy for him. what i will say is that he has shown a real tendency to be a person that will use racism, that will use dog whistling, and will play to bigotry. those of us who have known him in new york, he did that. the only race issue i have ever known him to stand up for -- he comes from queens, right next to howard beach. i have never heard him address the country all the way until now. the only race related case was when he took out advertisements

that he paid for in new york city calling for the death of five young black and latino boys accused of a despicable act of central park rape. they were found innocent. he still said after the dna was proven, that they were guilty. his only dialogue was to go against young black and latino young men that were found to be innocent, and he still wouldn't change. charlie: jon, do you think we'll look back on it as a moment of change? do you think all that has happened in terms of the reaction of this -- i have had people come up to me and say that this will be an inflection point. jon: i hope so. i'm skeptical, because i think it is part of a tragic pattern. i think it begins in our native region, in the aftermath of mathematics, where you had the founding of the klan of christmas eve of 1865. not quite eight months after general lee surrendered to general grant. you have the beginning of white resistance. the fires of hate burn brightest when there are moments of economic and social stress. reconstruction was that kind of moment.

the beginning of the institution of jim crow into the 1890's. the klan put 50,000 people into the capital because of anti-catholicism, anti-semitism, etc. you had the cold war anxieties, the isolationism of charles lindbergh, you had the birchers of the early 1960's, you had the antigovernment sentiment of the mid-1990's when those innocent people, including the children in the day care center, died when timothy mcveigh bombed the oklahoma city federal building. you have these moments when some part of the white population feels alienated and dispossessed. the reality of 2017, the changing demography, the

changing idea that information age brains matter more than bronze age, that's part of the reason donald trump is president. only 19% of people trust the federal government. we are about $70,000 off the median income for a family of four to have a middle-class life. those are the number that produce this. on the racial question, with all respect and affection to my friend reverend sharpton, it is not a dog whistle if everybody can hear it. i think that's where we are right now. rev. sharpton: i think he's right, i think everyone did hear it. a lot of people in the media were acting as if they didn't understand what they were hearing. i think that when you have people feeling alienated, and you have a candidate that blames the other, that started his political career by raising

birtherism, that the president is unlike us, he goes from there over to mexicans, then to islamophobia with muslims, it is them, it is not your fault. when globalization, automation has cost a lot more jobs than immigration, but the president did not put a plan in. he did not run on that. this kind of comforting people with bigotry is dangerous. i would hope it is in this period, but we don't know what -- we do not know that it is. i have in my own career wrestled with dealing openly, and say, no, i will not deal with those elements or violence. i'm not saying anything that a lot of public figures have not had to struggle with. he knows better. everyone of us knows better. when you are around extremist,

you need to say, i am going to part company. he knows better. he ought to stand up for the good of his country. and his own legacy. do i expect him to? no. but i would love for him to do that. charlie: you say he doesn't stand up because of his political ambition, or because he is at heart a racist? rev. sharpton: i don't know. i don't know the reason. i know the actual behavior. i don't want to psychoanalyze him. but i can say i know what i see. what i see whatever the motive, , the results are the same. charlie: jon, is this also simply the fact that after slavery we never healed all of the impact of slavery? jon: it's the american dilemma. there are two original sins in american life. there is native american removal and african-american slavery.

slavery is wrapped up in the fabric of the country. read the constitution. when jefferson wrote that all men were created equal, he had a very narrow understanding of what the definition of "men" was. the story of the country, the beauty of the country, however tragic or bloody or slow, we have, in fact, tried to become a more perfect union. it is not a perfectible journey. it is not something we will achieve on this set of paradise, but we have always become stronger the wider we opened our arms. it is easy to say these are fringe groups on the margin and that the press are overreacting but i disagree. , you have these moments where the extremes, the hate, the people giving nazi salutes, after we spent so much blood and treasure trying to liberate the world from that form of tyranny, that is an extreme

manifestation. but it is an extreme manifestation of an underlying reality. the underlying reality is there is an enormous unease in the country. it is easier to point your finger and say that an immigrant is responsible, or a black person is responsible, and it's not me. i would recommend everybody to read richard hofstadter's essay. it is called the paranoid style in american politics. it was a lecture in 1963. it was a cover story in october 1964. it won't take long. you can see from the bavarian illuminati of the 1790's, to the birchers, onto charlottesville this week, you have these moments where the dispossessed want to blame someone else. the difference we have now is that the president himself is one of the people doing the pointing.

charlie: does it matter -- you mentioned thomas jefferson, thomas jefferson had slaves. rev. sharpton: slaves, and children with the slaves. it does matter. charlie: should they take down the jefferson memorial? rev. sharpton: i think that people need to understand when people that were enslaved and robbed of even the right to marry, and had forced sex with slave masters, that this is personal to us. my great-grandfather was a slave in south carolina owned by the family that ended up, strom thurmond was one of them. this is personal. this is not some kind of removed discussion. our families were victims. charlie: therefore, everybody associated with slavery in terms of any public monument to them?

rev. sharpton: when you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds, you are asking me to subsidize the insult to my family. charlie: and thomas jefferson had slaves. rev. sharpton: i would repeat that the public should not be paying to uphold somebody with that background. you have private museums and other things you may want to do, but that's not even issue. we are talking about here and open display of bigotry announced and over and over again, and then followed up by not just violence, but terrorism, and the president won't even speak to it. on august 28, 1963, dr. king's speech, he said there and talked about lincoln's promise. this year, two weeks from monday, we are bringing white, black, muslim clergy to stand

there and proclaim their dream, and think about how martin luther king was dreaming, when we were still in the back of the bus. we went all the way to barack obama. now two weeks before we recognize that day, we see charlottesville and a president who has laryngitis for two days on that issue -- some of us will stand up. charlie: the attorney general announced today there would be a rigorous investigation. at cbs this morning, i asked if this was the highest priority, and can you ensure you will get to the bottom of this? he said yes. the attorney general is an associate of the president you are criticizing. rev. sharpton: he is an associate of the president, that we will see what he does, but if

he's the same attorney general that we met with that told us he was going to withdraw from the voting rights lawsuit in texas that we consider biased, and the same attorney general that wanted to stop the consent decree in baltimore that had already been agreed to by the justice department, the same attorney general is talking about reversing affirmative action. if we are not jumping up and down, applauding the attorney general, it is because of the positions. we will wait and see. charlie: the president faces lots of challenges. north korea is a national security challenge. is this a national challenge? jon: i think it is a challenge and an ongoing one, because it goes to the moral credibility of the person behind the desk in the oval office. franklin roosevelt said the presidency is preeminently a place of moral leadership. we have to be a leader as a country and global community where we believe what the president says. where you have some innate confidence that things are in fairly good hands. i think for a lot of people, that level of confidence started low, and it has gotten to be almost nonexistent.

i think it is an exacerbating moment. it is yet another example of a place where the president had an opportunity, tragically, because there is a woman who is dead and two state troopers who are dead because of this attempt to put neo-nazism back to the front of the american imagination -- because of that, there are people who are dead. this is a moment where a president could have spoken beyond the 34% or 36% of the people who approve of his job. charlie: do you think the president will last four years? rev. sharpton: i don't know if he will. i think we are very, very close to seeing a president implode. implode in the sense -- politically implode, in the sense that losing the confidence

of many americans that not only can he be moral, but decent. the president that responds quickly to everything couldn't find his voice when a young woman died, an obvious victimization of a terrorist act? a lot of people are saying it is not only moral, it is just decency. how do you not respond to that? how do you not pick up the phone and call her family and say americans are with you? how do you have to be pushed into saying the most basic and even then, most removed from any personal kind of identity with what the situation could have been, even indirectly, or encouraged by your actions? i don't know how you do that and maintain the confidence of the american public, including many of them that voted for you. charlie: thank you for coming, al sharpton. thank you, jon meacham. we will be back.

stay with us. ♪ ♪

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xfinity. the future of awesome. charlie: greg fischer is here, the democratic mayor of louisville, kentucky. he has tried to transform the city into an urban laboratory for innovators. his mantra is create jobs, improve education, and make louisville a more compassionate city. on his watch louisville has

, added 63,000 jobs, thousands of businesses, and hotels. his belief that data and technology have improved people's lives has brought to the city projects like google fiber and smart apartments. for his efforts, politico has called mayor fischer the most innovative mayor in america. i am pleased to have him at the table. welcome. how have you done it, -- then we will talk about charlottesville, but all that i suggested, did this come from your background as an entrepreneur? why you? why louisville? mayor fischer: combine the head with the heart, and great things happen. that is great -- that is what great businesses do, as well. they set a big vision and then you guide your city through wonderful values. our values are lifelong learning, health and compassion. you put all that together and make sure you have a strong

economic development strategy focused on the strength in your city. and you reach out to everybody in the city. the issue of the day is everybody has to feel like they are along for the economic positive ride. pull all that together and work 22 hours a day, and it can happen. hear what lot of us you said and ask what does he , mean by compassion? mayor fischer: what this has been one of the most interesting journeys we had. the notion was, the values i mentioned, learning, health, but i was looking for a third value that connoted we are all into this together. that is where compassion came from. compassion we define as respect for each and every one of our citizens so their human potential is flourishing. people shining like the sun, that metaphor. we are all born with love and kindness, compassion, but leaders don't talk about it.

that should be the number one job of a leader, whether elected or a business leader. us as individual leaders to call out the best in people. for some reason, we don't do that. it calls into notion of, what is power? too often in america we say power is money and strength. how about power being compassion and joy and the ability to bring out the best in people? when you do that around the plan, you can build a great city, state, country. charlie: speaking of the country, tell me your reaction to first the events in charlottesville, and then the president's first reaction? mayor fischer: obviously, part of the media we were talking about is that you see everything in real time. your brain's processing this and saying, what is really going on in our country? swift condemnation should come out for any of this racism. charlie: it should be instinctive. mayor fischer: that's a layup. it should be easy. these are moral moments for us.

we saw a moral moment from my colleague mitch landrieu, when he talked about the removal of statues in new orleans. he rose to the occasion. -- she rose to the occasion. rising to the occasion doesn't have a party label. it comes from the heart. a leader goes -- when there's issues, if there's a crisis, you go to it and address the issue straight on. charlie: but it didn't happen. do you think this was simply looking at his political base, or part of his political base? i'm talking about the first instinct. do you think somebody was in there lobbying, saying you have to be balanced and careful, because the people who got you elected will take offense? mayor fischer: your advisors are there to advise. they are not there to decide. you go where your heart and head tells you to go. and then you let the chips fall where they if you can't be may. authentic, if you can't be the person you are, what good is it holding office?

these offices are honors to hold. if you ever forget that, you ought to leave. our job is to lift people up, provide aspiration for people to be better than they can be. that is the job of us to lead, to make our cities, state country a better place. , we do that together. charlie: did the president, in a sense, by what he said today, go a long way in clearing the record? mayor fischer: you see people attacking it on both sides. the good news is we all learned. you come back and say, maybe i should have been more forceful. let me say this today. certainly, people wanted to hear that on day one. it is good we heard it today, so let's move forward on the mission together. i don't watch the lips, i watch the actions. that is really what is critical. that is how people judge us. charlie: what should the president show us by action? mayor fischer: you can do a lot of things.

you can go to the scene. you can use more words. you can stand with different partners, a diverse group of partners. the reality is our country is , extraordinarily diverse. that is not going to change. the people who want to harken back to a day gone by -- translation, white men running everything -- those days are gone. what we should do as a country is say, this diversity, this ralism,ittle -- this plu is a strength. embrace it. too many people feel like they are losing something with this evolution. charlie: that it's a zero-sum game. mayor fischer: so much of it is caught up in this bigger picture, the rapidly changing global world, fueled by a technology that has outpaced people's ability to compete. you have heard the concern from urban areas for generations, maybe centuries. you saw that in the riots in our streets, post-ferguson. it doesn't make sense for people to tear down their cities, but when they are so frustrated and

see no hope, that's what happens -- happens. we saw that in the last presidential election, stereotypically from rural areas. they have the same thing in common. they want a connection to a hopeful, positive future. charlie: and they think that what is not giving that to them? technology? that technology is stealing their jobs? mayor fischer: it's also about nativism and populism. charlie: what do you mean? mayor fischer: somebody pointing to the other. the other is taking it from them. think about the division. they don't look like me. they may not worship the same religion, so they are a problem. you don't build a great team that way. you speak the truth. charlie: can you build a successful political campaign that way? mayor fischer: i don't believe you can for the long-term. the question is the long-term. the long-term to me is the creation of more opportunity for everybody in our country to benefit. the long-term is speaking truth to people so they can adjust families's and their

lives so they can prosper in the 21st century. sometimes truth is hard. people don't want to hear it. part of the job of any leader is to tell the truth and provide resources, provide training, whatever it is so someone can reorient themselves and their family to a positive future. charlie: why is this country having such a hard time dealing with race? mayor fischer: we have never really addressed it, head-on. you go back to president abraham lincoln and the actions he took, that's what a leader does. but then the white meritocracy tried to unravel that again. we have seen these waves of movement in civil rights and progress, then carrying it back again by the established order. you are seeing attempts at doing that right now. charlie: we had the commission a long time ago. mayor fischer: here we are again. what i have found in my job, my job has made me more socially progressive on one hand, and much more appreciative of law enforcement on the other hand.

the ability to kind of try to understand especially as a white , man, what minorities go through every day in the country, you have to try. when i have talked about issues about privilege, for instance, and the privilege you have coming from a great family, the privilege coming from a white in our country some caucasians , recoil from that. they will say, i worked hard for everything i have. that is true. but you have not been walking around looking different your whole life. so there's no question it is harder for a person of color. you can succeed, but it's harder than the same person who might be white. charlie: so what does society owe to the fact that it is more difficult -- is it affirmative action, or what? mayor fischer: having a lens or equity and access, so you can see the same opportunities. take, for instance, when kids go to kindergarten.

an advantaged family's child will be three years ahead of a disadvantaged family's child. by disadvantaged i mean lack of access or opportunity. second come regardless of color. there are more low income white people than black people in our country. our collective job, if you believe we are all interconnected, is to make sure all those kids have as many resources that they can so they show up about the same. when i tell people will you , agree with me morally, and if not, from an economic development perspective that we need a trained workforce? if i can't get you on those, will you agree with me from a public safety standpoint? we need a safe society. ultimately, i think riots are bad for business. you want peace in a village where everyone is moving forward. charlie: when you look at a kid going to kindergarten, and if he or she is behind when they

start, they simply fall behind. mayor fischer: that's right. american society today is willing to invest in those people afterwards with incarceration and all types of social services. we need to redesign our system so we are investing on the front end, so they show up ready to learn and ready to be a productive citizen. when you take a look at the big work we have to do countrywide, we have to redesign the education system, housing system. our immigration system. we are getting the results that our education system is designed to produce. it wasn't designed maliciously, but it was designed in age where agricultural and manufacturing were at the top when there were traditional families. now we have nontraditional families. don't you think we should redesign the system? if it were a business, we would be out of business. the role -- the results we are getting in terms of disparities today and lack of opportunities, it suggests the system is broken and needs to be changed.

which means we need a functioning washington, d.c. charlie: what would you do to fix it? mayor fischer: there are practical aspects to it. over 10 million people in the country right now are not here with legal documents. it is impractical to ship all of them back. we have to deal with that reality. we do have to make sure borders are secure. we all agree. but we have an issue right now. face that reality. then also look at what helps the country. we are an aging country without immigrants. we are not a growing country without immigrants. we are not as entrepreneurial without immigrants. my wife's parents fled the civil war in greece after world war ii. third grade education, six grade education. in one generation, a phd, m.d. don't we want those people in our country? we should be embracing that. charlie: i assume the primary

thing is education. mayor fischer: education is a great leveler. going back to my in-laws, they never bought an automobile so they could put every dollar they had into the kids education. charlie: public transportation and education lifted them up. mayor fischer: that's right. then they worked hard. those opportunities are there. charlie: the president constantly talks about jobs. are we creating jobs? the economy is moving up in growth, gdp growth is up. job numbers are good. what is happening to the economy in louisville? mayor fischer: we have had great success. we have 30,000 open jobs right now. if anyone wants to move to louisville, we have plenty. the economy is growing faster than the ability to fill the jobs and train for the jobs as well. it's a nice place to live. good quality of life. some would say the best quality.

we need to make sure people are ready for those jobs. that is the value of lifelong learning the training so you are , always in a position to have a 21st century career. the big issue of the day is the hollowing out of middle income jobs in the country. it is reducing social mobility and hope. charlie: hollowing out means what in this case? mayor fischer: not as many. we have fewer people getting richer and a lot people getting poorer. when we had a strong middle class we saw more and more positive energy in our country. is the opposite thing is happening in emerging countries and emerging markets. they are creating a middle-class. that creation creates demand, which creates economic growth. mayor fischer: 77% of the economy is driven by retail. if we don't have people making living wages, the economy will have difficulty growing. plus, it leads to unrest, and limits people's potential to contribute.

it gets back to the value of compassion. how do we look in the country as we do in the city focusing on innovation? if your company is focused in the area you will be competitive. the goal is not just the number of jobs to produce. it is also the type of jobs. we are trying to increase median wages so people can have good living wages. charlie: you are a politician. characterize the politician in the white house. how do you look at this person? mayor fischer: first, i like to say i'm a public servant, not a politician. charlie: that's fair. [laughter] charlie: the only thing i would quarrel with is i think politics is a noble profession. people like you were very successful in business came to politics, i assume you don't need money. you come for public service. yes, there is corruption and power that leads to all kinds of

acts to get power, but it is how you handle power that determines greatness. mayor fischer: i agree. i got fed up enough as a citizen. i always told my kids, if you are complaining about something, do something about it. so they looked at me and said, are you going to run for office? charlie: mayor is the job you first ran for? mayor fischer: i ran for senate, and i didn't know what i was in for. iran a four-month campaign in came in i have always done a lot second. of public service in my community, so i ran for mayor. it is a great honor to be a mayor. to be a good mayor, you have to have the head of a chief executive officer and the heart of a social worker. everybody is on your team, whether you like it or not. charlie: but you are the closest to where the problems are. mayor fischer: that is the advantage. we go to congress as mayors and say, we are here as a partner to help. sometimes when you are in

washington, you get so removed from reality that you don't see the issues taking place. for instance, when the health care debate was going on. the amount of pain that would have been inflicted if the affordable care act was repealed was something that thes mayor of america kept hammering home in congress. remember our people, understand what you will do. think about the opioid crisis. we need more help, not less help. here's the reality from the guy that is a mayor that happens to be a business person. 18% of our gdp is on health care. what's the next country doing? germany, 10%. united kingdom, 8%. how can they cover everybody in their countries, and the people live longer at about half the amount we are spending? the answer is, we need to take a look at the system. is the difference we pay in pharmaceuticals, the difference we have been preventative health

-- there is an answer there that so often we think we cannot learn from other countries. i get that this is a big system. but people designed to these systems, people can change the systems, as well. d.c. is caught up in ideology, but over here is where the real work needs to be done. change the system so everyone can get better coverage. charlie: what will change the opioid crisis? the president declared it a national emergency. mayor fischer: i do appreciate that. it is ravaging rural areas and cities as well. the unfortunate thing is, how do you cure this one addict at a time? recovery is hard. very hard. the last thing we want to do is put this issue in the shadows. we need to remove the stigma of

-- from addiction, remove the stigma of mental illness, so we need to make sure treatment is readily available. let me tell you one thing we are doing in louisville. when somebody comes into the jail -- and the biggest users of jail in any city are people who are dual diagnosis, mental health and drug addiction. and they rotate through. when they come in, we help with treatment. we sign him up for medicaid so when they leave jail they can continue treatment, not just throw them out on the streets. you can provide housing and 24/7 counseling for about $30,000 a year. to treat a dual diagnosis patient is about $80,000 a year. not only is it morally right to help with treatment, it is also less expensive. charlie: thank you for coming. it is good to have you. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪ reporter: you are watching

"bloomberg technology." let's start with a check the first word news. president trump doubled down on his initial statements that all sides share the blame to the deadly charlottesville nationalist march this past weekend. he spoke at trump tower. president trump there is blame : on both sides. you look at both sides, i think there is blame on both sides. i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. reporter: meantime, he isn't saying what happens next with chief strategist steve bannon. the leaders of four minority house caucus groups called for his removal.