♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: president trump faces increased criticism for his failure to condemn neo-nazis and white supremacist groups in the wake of this weekend's violence in charlottesville, virginia. here is his initial reaction on saturday. pres. trump: we continue to condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of bigotry, hatred, and violence on many sides. on many sides. charlie: on monday the president did attack racist, white supremacists, and neo-nazis. pres. trump: racism is criminal, that commitnd those

violence and its names are violent thugs am including the kkk, neo-nazis, white supremacist, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans. charlie: finally today, and an angry confrontation with a reporter, the president went back to the point that there was blame for the violence on both sides. pres. trump: when you say alt-right, define it for me? you define it, go ahead. >> john mccain defined them as thyssenkrupp -- pres. trump: what about the alt left that came charging at the -- as you say, the alt-right -- do they have any semblance of guilt? let me ask you this -- what about the fact they came charging with clubs in their hands, do they have any problem? i think they do. wait a minute. that was a horrible, horrible day.

i am not finished, fake news. that was a horrible day. i will tell you something. i watched this much more closely than you people watched it. and you had a group on one side that was bad and you had a group on the other side that was also very violent and nobody wants to say it, but i will say it right now. you had a group on the other side of that came charging in without a permit and they were very, very violent. >> [indiscernible] >> >> do you think that the -- what you call the alt left is the same as neo-nazis? pres. trump: all of those people -- excuse me -- i have condemned neo-nazis, i have condemned many different groups, but not all of those people were neo-nazis, not all of those people were white supremacist by any stretch.

those people were also there because they wanted to protest the taking down of a statue of robert e lee. excuse me. you take a look at some of the groups and you see -- and you know if you were honest reporters, which in many cases you are not, but many of those people were there to protest the taking down at the statue of robert e lee. this week it is robert e lee, i noticed that stonewall jackson is coming down. i wonder is it george washington next week and thomas jefferson the week after? you have to ask yourself, where does it stop? excuse me. theya look and i before, were there to protest the taking down the statue of robert ely. infrastructure question, go head. >> does the statue of robert e lee stay up? pres. trump: i would say that is up to the local town, community, or the federal government depending on where it is located. >> do think things have gotten

worse or better since you took office? pres. trump: i think they have gotten better -- things have been frayed for a long time, but you can ask president obama about that because he made speeches about it. i believe the fact that i have brought in -- it will be soon, millions of jobs. companies are moving back into our country, i think that will have a tremendous positive impact on race relations. we have companies coming back into our country, foxconn in wisconsin just announced. i have many countries i say -- i say pouring back into the country. i think that will have a huge positive impact on race relations. people want great jobs with good pay. when they have that, you watch how race relations will be. i will tell you, we are spending a lot of money on the inner cities. we are doing far more than anybody has done with respect to the inner cities.

it is a priority. >> are you putting the what you calling the alt left and what -- the white supremacist on the same moral plane? pres. trump: i'm not putting anybody on a moral plane. what i'm saying is this -- you had a group on one side and you had a group of the other and they came at each other with clubs and it was a horrible thing to watch, but there was another side. there was a group on this side, you can call them the left -- you just called them the left, that came violently attacking the other group. you can say what you want, but that is the way it is. >> you said there was hatred and violence -- pres. trump: i think there is blame on both sides. look at both sides, i think there is blame on both sides. i have no doubt about it and you don't have any doubt about it either. and if you reported it accurately, you would say it.

>> [indiscernible] pres. trump: excuse me. it had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. you had people in that group -- excuse me. i saw the same pictures as you did. you had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down -- to them -- a very important statue to the renaming of a park from robert e lee do another name. washington was a slave owner, was george washington as slave owner? will george washington lose his status? are we going to take down statues to george washington? how about thomas jefferson? what you think about thomas jefferson, do you like him? are we going to take down his statues? because he was a major slave owner. now we are going to take down

his statue. you know what? it is fine. you are changing history, you're changing culture. you had people, i'm not talking about the neo-nazis or white nationalists, because they should the condemned totally. but you had many other people in that group other than neo-nazis and white nationalists and the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. in the other group you had fine people, but you also had trouble makers. you see them come with black outfits, helmets, baseball bats. you had a lot of bad people in the other group, too. charlie: many suggest that steve bannon, the president's chief strategist is partly responsible for the response. as a former editor of breitbart news, then it has attract attention for his ideological ties to members of the far right. now some are calling for his ousting. joining me now is joshua green. he wrote about this in his recent book "devil's bargain,"

and he is also a senior national correspondent for bloomberg businessweek and political analyst for cnn. i am pleased to have him back on this program. let's begin with what you are hearing as to the future of steve bannon. joshua: for the last few days it has been clear from leaks that dan and was on thin ice and particularly for two reasons, number when he has been feuding with mcmaster, john kelly wants to bring order to the white house. there have been a lot of discussion about the fact that it looked like bannon was on thin ice because of that. then of course there is the publicity bannon has gotten from my book, which "the new york times" reported. the fact that trump hats reacted so viscerally to the criticism over his response to the charlottesville riot i think

shows that he is disinclined to fire steve bannon and is still and hisg to him speaking about it in a manner steve bannon would speak about it. it doesn't seem to be somebody on the verge of pushing out his chief strategist. charlie: does he need steve bannon? joshua: i don't know if he does or not, but i think bannon and trump have a kind of connection. i think trump understands that bannon is someone who viscerally understands him and understands his politics and able to channel this nationalist populist worldview that trump and bannon used together to get trump to the white house. having said that, trump has come under an awful lot of criticism for taking steve bannon's advice in the wake of the charlottesville violence in refusing to call out the right racists white , supremacists, and neo-nazis.

that was a tactic that worked during the presidential campaign when hillary put pressure on this violenceunce and he didn't. it did not work at all in this instance, because here we could see on our own television sets the violence that was happening and the lives lost as a result. charlie: can you tell us if you know the role bannon played in shaping the president's response to charlottesville? joshua: i know based on my reporting and others have reported, steve bannon was not in bedminster with trump, trump solicited his advice on how to respond. i don't know what was said in those conversations, but what trump said in his initial response, blaming many sides and refusing to specify the alt-right as being operable for -- as being culpable for the violence and his latest press conference where he angrily

returned to that position, both are positions that steve bannon would take on this issue, not only because he believed that the alt-right is an important part of trumps political base, but because he characteristically does not like to bend to the demands of the mainstream media and democratic party, and even the republican establishment, all of which have been telling trump you must condemn these people, you must specify that they are responsible and no one else. charlie: the president seems to adhere to what he said today. you had a group on one side that was bad and a group on the other side that was also very violent, nobody wants to say it, but i will say it right now. the for statement monday on saturday was a fine statement, but you don't make a statement until you know the facts. joshua: i think this is trump's way of obfuscating and deflecting blame.

this is a tried and true trump tactic that he has used again and again. he will say something vague that implies there is more there. we need to stop immigration of muslims from foreign countries until we figure out what is going on. we need to withhold judgment about charlottesville until we know all of the facts, i don't think it means there are facts we don't know, but it is trump's way of avoiding having to specifically apologize. one thing we know about trump is that he is loathe to apologize for or condemn any supporters. and that is especially problematic in a case like this one where those supporters are racist. charlie: how many of them are racist and how much of them are neo-nazis and white supremacists? joshua: i don't think you can poll this clearly, and i strongly suspect that the subset of trump supporters who are veryl racists and nazis is

small, however bannon believes they are a critical part of the trump's core support, because they are the truest believers, they are the people that come to breitbart news, show up to his rallies, active on social media. we know that trump is aware of them, because he often retweets them. even though he is routinely condemned for this and sometimes has to back off. i think that trump himself believes that condemning these people is capitulating to his political opponents. he refused to do it last august when hillary clinton gave a speech and called on trump to fire steve bannon and distance himself from the alt-right. he wouldn't do it then. he is obviously loathe to do it now in the wake of charlottesville. and having been forced into a couple days ago now we can see in this press conference, he has essentially returned to his original position.

i think that shows two things, he is not listening. trump is not listening to politicians, not listening to business leaders. instead, i think he is experiencing this viscerally through the lens of cable news and is responding with real anger to the criticism he has gotten over the past few days. charlie: clearly he is not listening to his daughter, either? joshua: no, but that is nothing new. while she often tries to send off the rough edges or steer him in a more moderate direction, trump doesn't seem to listen all that often. he didn't do it on the paris accord. he didn't do it when it came to his desire to ban transgender soldiers in the military. he certainly didn't do it in response to the charlottesville violence. i don't know what effect it has on the president.

charlie: is it political opportunism or racism, or is there no difference in this case? joshua: i would choose a third option. i would say this is who trump really is. he responds viscerally to this criticism. i don't know that he is a racist, although, the fact that he is so unwilling to criticize racists, when he is so eager to criticize other people certainly makes you wonder. his response to this crisis is not dissimilar to his response to other political attacks that don't involve issues of race. that is a truculent and unwillingness to admit he has made an error or accept criticism. he just want do it. i think on an issue like charlottesville where race and identity are at the center of

the debate, that tendency trump has becomes heightened in a way that is very ugly and morally upsetting. and apparently members of his own family. charlie: there is also a fight with h.r. mcmaster. breitbart wouldn't be doing it without the acquiescence and urging and knowledge of steve bannon, john kelly stepped into that, it is reported. so, if you have h.r. mcmaster and moderate people who feel strongly about him in the military like mattis and others, and you have john kelly feeling this is not healthy, what he needs to do to straighten up the white house, that is powerful people aligned against steve bannon. joshua: it is. i think if bannon is fired it will be great -- it will be because of his feud with mcmaster. it has been going on for months and has become especially public over the last couple of weeks.

it has now been written on the "the wall street journal" editorial page. in return breitbart news has been extraordinarily critical of h.r. mcmaster's. kelly wanted to tamp down here and the message he has sent to trump's senior team is that this needs to stop, people need to stay in their lanes. mcmaster is the guy that kelly is empowering on foreign policy as is appropriate and his role on the national security council. if bannon will accept those structures, if he will report to kelly and slowdown these attacks in the media -- if he is able to, then i think he will be able to survive. but if bannon goes ahead -- if these attacks continue, it may get to the point where kelly can prevail upon trump and say if you have a connection to this guy as your friend, it is harming your presidency and it is time to fire him. charlie: how do we know how well

the president is listening to john kelly? joshua: there's not a lot of public evidence he is listening to kelly. he was supposed to clamp down on things, run a tighter ship, and instead we have had twitter explosions from trump, him almost unhinged at press conferences. there are so many stories and crises clashing at once. i would say kelly's tenure is off to a rocky start. however, he is still conducting staff review, still trying to get things in order. he has said he's not going to try to curb trump's behavior or take away his twitter account. i don't know how much affect he can have on trump if he will leave aside those two critical areas. i think we need to give them a few more weeks to the if things can settle down. and if trump can get beyond charlottesville, which he was supposed to be attempting to do

today with a press conference on infrastructure, which was going to be the next thing. instead we saw he wants to return to the fight about charlottesville. i don't think that is something you can blame on steve bannon or an advisor. this is donald trump and nobody seems to be able to control donald trump. charlie: we always come back to that point, don't we? josh: we sure do. until that can change, and i am not sure that ever well, i think we will continue through the trumpian cycles of purge. charlie: thank you. "the devil's bargain." we will be right back. stay with us. ♪

charlie: katrina adams is here, she is chairman ceo and president of the united states tennis association. its mission is to promote and develop the growth of tennis throughout the country. this includes identifying and nurturing top u.s. talent to compete on the global stage. usda also owns and operates the u.s. open. the two-week tournament begins very soon on august 28th. all eyes will be on roger federer, the 36-year-old seeking a major title after winning both the australian open and wimbledon tournament. i am pleased to have katrina adams at the table for the first time, welcome. katrina: thank you. charlie: are you the first to serve as ceo for two terms? katrina: i am.

charlie: and the first player as well? katrina: that is correct. charlie: did you play tennis as a young person? katrina: absolutely. i didn't know that professional tennis was a possibility, but i loved the sport. charlie: i assume you would have been going to any other sport too. you had great hand eye coordination and the stuff that makes a great athlete. katrina: i had two older brothers. i was introduced to a lot of sports. when i picked up tennis having been an athlete at a young age, it needed easy to pick up the sport. charlie: what did it mean to see arthur win wimbledon? it was the first time i picked up a rocket in 1975. i didn't understand the sport or the dynamics of it more the significance was of winning wimbledon, but i do know a 12 inchm play on

black-and-white television, i said wow, you get to do this on television? it wasn't until later i understood what i had witnessed. charlie: we talk about usta and developing talent. how do you do that? we have seen waves of american talent, strong one decade but not so much in other decades. katrina: i think we have had strength throughout the sport overtime. it is about how the players really i don't. developing is providing opportunities. what we are doing with our program and providing the opportunity for these kids to learn the sport with kid size equipment, smaller rackets, smaller courts so they can really understand the movement and strokes at an early age, they can develop that much quicker. if i had that opportunity at that age, i might have had a better forehand than i did. it is about making sure we have the proper programs for them that are available, that are

accessible to everyone in every community. charlie: how about participation of african-americans in tennis? katrina: we have had a big spike in that over the years, particularly with venus and serena in there ascension. you had kids that wanted to be like them. it is like any major athlete -- like michael jordan and basketball. everyone wanted to be like mike. we had the little african-american girls who wanted to be like venus or serena, but it transcended to any person of color. that is how we were able to get a lot of our african-american players, both male and female. when you look at the professional rankings right now, you see not only been us and serena, but also taylor townsend, sasha vickery, vicki duval, the list goes on. you can really see how these players that started the sport

because of venus or serena, how it has played off. charlie: what about latinos? katrina: we haven't had as much success in that area, it is one of my major initiatives, bringing tennis to the hispanic communities, and understanding how to communicate with different cultures in those communities. to really make it a platform of opportunity for cultures that really haven't gone toward tennis. they play a lot of soccer, baseball, and other sports, but we are making it more accessible. we had a 12% growth in our hispanic numbers and after our first year of making a major push it. we have a young man doing really well right now. to see what he is doing, hopefully he is inspiring -- charlie: to get young kids to think about being him? katrina: absolutely. and a woman of cuban descent, it is an understanding that you have role models out there you can look up to and have them

going out to do clinics and whatever they can to make sure the kids get involved. charlie: is the use of drugs for performance enhancement a big issue? katrina: we haven't really had that in our sport. when you talk about the kids getting stronger and bigger, it is really about being lean and fast. that has not been something that is there when you look at football for instance. you have kids that are trying to get so bulky and using those performance-enhancing drugs, but it has not been that big of an issue that we have seen with our kids. charlie: how would you describe they handled maria sharapova? katrina: she came out and admitted it. charlie: the tests were positive. katrina: yes, the tests were positive. she took full responsibility for it. she served out her term. it was something that was legal to turned out to be not legal. it was not something that was on the ban list forever, and it is something that has been dealt

with. everyone is moving forward. charlie: what do you see as your biggest challenge? katrina: my biggest challenge is to get kids in the sport, but also keep them in the sport. there are so many opportunities with other sports, with what technology is providing, we have so many couch potatoes now because they are dealing with their tablets and phones. as long as we can make the sport exciting and engaging, we started a new net generation that will be premiering this series at the u.s. open, hopefully we can get a lot more kids excited about being in the sport, let them know it is fun and engaging, let them know that our professional players are behind it and promoting it. that is really where we are, is making sure we can get players in the game and keeping them for a long time. charlie: how much difference to you think it made in terms of

serena and vanessa -- between the two williams sisters, how much difference did it make that they had a father that was as obsessed with the game as they were? katrina: everybody has their own past. we all have obsessive parents in the game. it depends on what their approach is. it is good anytime you have a parent that is supporting their child and they are dream. so, what works for the williams sisters may not work for someone else. we embrace any parent that wants to be in the sport and have their kids in the sport. we want to make sure that the child is protected, if you will, are and making sure they have you the right guidance and support behind them so they are a support behind them so they are not overworked. so they can stay in the sport forever. charlie: you start very early playing tennis even at the competitive level? katrina: we have 10 and under,

tennis, that is true. but we have taken the ranking out of it so ranking is not an issue. a lot of times when youths are gunning to be number one, they start to cut corners and not really focus on developing. they are only focusing on a ranking. and that is something we try to promote throughout our game, particularly throughout the usta development, making sure the parents and players and coaches understand that the development part is the most important part. the rankings will come, the success will come. if you focus on winning too soon, you will miss out on being the best player you can be. charlie: do you continue to play? katrina: i do continue to play. i do not play as much as i used to. my knees are not holding up as much as i would like to but , hopefully i'll get those taking care of and be as active as i used to be. charlie: what is the difference between a player who reaches

between 50 and 100 versus a player who is between one and five? what is it that those at the top have that though that are competitive and talented and successful, don't have? katrina: i can speak from experience on both sides, a little bit. andly reached 67 in singles was not able to crack the top 50 or above. i thought i had the ability to be top 20, top 10, but i didn't make it. i was top eight in doubles. i understand what it means to be a top 10 player on that side and your focus and your commitment. i would say champions are born, there is something innate, inside. charlie: is it hard, is it something in their physical structure? pete sampras said there was something about his shoulder, the great server that he was, something about the muscular structure of his shoulder.

katrina: i think the physical part can be taught. charlie: certainly hand eye coordination. katrina: right. you can have the best forehand, backhand, great serve, but if you can't but it together mentally and emotionally then , you can't get past a certain threshold. charlie: my guess is that the mental edge kicks in when you get to the top 10 in terms of being able to -- because you have all of the equipment necessary to be a great player, but there is something about the mental edge, the will to win the separates one. katrina: you still have to get to 10, so you still have to have the will to win throughout your entire career to progress from 100 to 60 to 20 to 10. and once you get into that 10 number as you mentioned, it really is -- it becomes mental and self belief, and understanding what works for

you. it is not just on the court, it is off the court. you really have to make sure you are feeling good about yourself, you're doing everything properly that can make you feel nothing but a clean thought while you're out there on the court and executing what you have trained on. that is very difficult to do in this sport. charlie: when you were number eight in doubles and 67 in singles, did you have a full-time trainer? did you have a full-time trainer, coach, nutritionist -- katrina: no. charlie: psychological instructor? katrina: no. i didn't really have access. i did have a coach, i had a trainer i worked with occasionally, but i could not afford to have all of those year-round like top players are today. charlie: and traveling -- katrina: there is something that separates the level of player based on what you can afford, as well. charlie: if you could do your

career over what would you do , differently? katrina: that is a very good question, charlie. i enjoyed my career. i enjoy doing what i did. i was very involved off the court, on the board of the players association for the wta and i was on the board of the wta tour. i was involved and wanted to make a difference and give back and make our sport better. from a professional level i was very act is. therefore, my focus was not just solely on me physically and mentally and preparation, because i was also focusing on the political side of the game, which obviously has worked out well, putting me in the position i am in today with the usta. i will say that i probably would have trained a little differently. i would have loved to have had a full-time fitness trainer to make sure i was in the best possible shape. i did go to college so i came out with what they call the

freshman 15 or a little bit more. i had to learn how to get in better shape over time. it took time away from me early on. let's look at the u.s. open coming up on august 28. how do you get prepared? how does the venue get prepared? katrina: we are in those stages right now. it is hectic. we are rebuilding louis armstrong stadium. we have had to shut down the construction of the rebuilding of the new louis armstrong stadium and kind of dress it up for the public to come in. but we have had to build a temporary louis armstrong stadium in what we call parking lot b. that will be an exciting adventure for us, something new this year, but the remainder of the facility is done. the biggest thing was putting the roof over the stadium and

opening up our new grandstand court area. it is really about cleaning up the construction site. from a lot of teamwork every department of our staff in understanding every sector of the u.s. open is covered. charlie: one of the great things about the u.s. open, and i have been to wimbledon and the french open, not the australian open. i have watched a lot of tennis being played. open, in the early stages of the tournament, you can walk around and be this close to a great player in the early stages of a game. it is wonderful to be able to have that kind of exposure to greatness. katrina: it is exciting. that is the part i call the u.s. open. it is great to be at the stadium and filled energy and excitement and watching the top players, but the first 10 days we have 16 other match courts going on. your top players will also be

out there. to be able to walk around and feel the excitement and energy from all of the players and watching the coaches and being as close as we are, i really call that the u.s. open. it is a true experience, a true fan experience. there are so many things going on, entertainment-wise, social media outlets, etc. when we have people come out the , majority of people are buying ground passes. our stadium seats 23,000 people. charlie: they just walk around and -- katrina: exactly. there is access to every court but the stadium. that is the best ticket you can have, go out there and be in the food court and be up close and personal. charlie: in terms of players, on the women and men's side what , is the number of people that qualify for the u.s. open? katrina: we have 128 main draw players on both the men and women. the final 16 spots are provided to the qualifiers and/or

wildcards. charlie: you can be a wildcard and have a shot. katrina: yes, you can. one was a wildcard after having a child and won the tournament. charlie: what are the rankings on the women's side this year? katrina: it is fluctuating. pliskova,ina halep, not in that order. we have a venus williams in the top nine. 15 women in the top 100. they should be a good year for the americans. charlie: on the men's side? nadal will take over the number one ranking after cincinnati. andy murray pulled out. rafa will be our number one

rogerand the number two, number three. djokovic not playing? katrina: no. was injured as well. he had a knee injury. the topfour from the men, that four from thetop men, that is why it escapes me. charlie: will roger be in the stands as a new art fan? katrina: roger has always been a new yorker player. i think a lot of people will be rooting for him. he is going for his 20th grand slam title at the u.s. open. a lot of milestones will be celebrated. if he happens to win, to celebrate his 20th grand slam title, it is something that has not been done. charlie: at 36. katrina: correct.

he is remarkable, such a class act. so charming and charismatic. a great ambassador. a great athlete. congratulations, it is nice to have you here. best wishes for a great tournament. stay with us. ♪ ♪

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-- netflix comedy series by tina fey and robert carlock. it is about an optimistic woman that finds newfound freedom in new york city after being kept captive in a bunk by a cold leader for 15 years. they say it is making horrible things funny, suggests that surviving could be more than just living on, it could be a kind of freedom, too. the third season premiered at this last may and was nominated for five emmy awards including outstanding comedy series. here is a look. >> hey, titus. do want to take a free career test? >> no thanks. i took one of those in high school and it told me to become a mannequin. >> that would be a good job for you. you get so still when you are angry. are you angry right now? >> yes, i am angry right now. a man going saw into apartment with another man. he is cheating on me.

they were laughing and touching arms. worst of all, you need to sit down for this, i know you're sitting down. mikey was wearing the date night outfit he wore on our first date. >> are you sure he is gay? >> everyone is gay, it is the 90's. >> you have to talk to mikey and give him a chance to explain. he is a good guy don't , overreact. >> i'm not overreacting. i am doing what any reasonable person would do in this situation. i will illuminate him. -- eliminate him. ellie kemper, tituss burgess, and carol kane, welcome. the idea for this was developed d.c. and somehow it ended up on -- developed for nbc and somehow it ends up on netflix, was a good move? were you concerned?

ellie: we were all relieved because we knew the show was going to be seen. you knew when netflix paid for it would be on the air. we were not sure of the air date or premiere date. we were not sure when it would actually premiere. it happened very quickly. duringly overnight tituss: i got a call literally friday night -- charlie: you won't be on nbc, but good news -- tituss: you're going to hear something in a few hours, but don't be alarmed. if going to be a good thing. whatever you say. charlie: is the challenge of this to be able to find humor in dark? yes, there are many challenges in this. first of all, i think the show is so well-written and makes our job easier. -- part of darkness

making the darkness lighter is in the writing itself so it is a , huge help. i think there is so much subject material that is borderline devastating. or not even borderline outright , devastating. the way to navigate that can be challenging. but so much as in the writing already. charlie: someone suggested it may be an argument about cynicism. ellie: yes. that is what is crazy about our show it is not cynical. has everyand she reason to be cynical. you have lost 15 years of your life. ellie: yes. i think that is what people to respond to, it's hopefulness. it is not cynical at all. charlie: what do you think the attractiveness is of the show? tituss: it is hopeless optimism. carol: that is so well put, hopeless optimism. i have never heard of that, but i love it. tituss: yes. charlie: did you read about kidnapping stories that you can have a feel for what those

people said it was like to emerge after captivity? ellie: yes. at the beginning of the show i was very worried about how this would be received and how you are treating this very delicate subject. you do not want to treat a lightly at all, of course. i think being sensitive to that and making sure it is the story of what happened after, after you emerge -- charlie: there is optimism. you used to be in a dungeon and you no longer are. ellie: yes. and i think it can be related to on a less dramatic scale for anyone. people have all had terrible things happen and need to keep going forward. you don't want to treat something like that lightly, there's nothing light about it. charlie: what do your friends say about your character? tituss: goodness. they all try to figure out what version of them i am doing. they think i am doing impersonations. they laugh, i think they are used to my shenanigans inside of

our friendships, relationships, so -- charlie: have they seen versions of the character? tituss: they have seen versions of it. charlie: you do draw from that? tituss: of course. a lot of them are my family members but they don't know , that. i would never tell them which versions they are. i think there are only a few little pockets of me. just the music and theater. charlie: define him as a character on screen. isuss: i think titus defensive, but only because he is afraid to be seen but he , wants to be seen. i think -- charlie: he wants the light but he is afraid of it. tituss: he will chase it at any

cost, but does not know what to do it when he gets it for only a brief moment. very talented but misguided, very complex individual, hard to -- play offbut a perfect her optimism? tituss: i think titus is -- i think kimmy's optimism has had a residual effect. i don't think it is something he would've chosen for himself or that her traits are something he wishes to incorporate on purpose. i think it is all because of some accidental circumstantial situation where he re-examines his own personal character and sees why her teachings are important, i think. charlie: how does lillian view these two characters? tell me who she is. carol: i am their landlady.

some people think i am a landlady of a building in harlem. but i let them slip a couple times it is actually a tugboat. we needgrateful because each other and i think that i was probably before this break here very alone and outspoken. and part of the neighborhood, but i think that -- and before titus had another roommate and i don't think i was so welcome then. now that kimmy is there, their home has become my home. i come down there and shave my legs or watch tv on the couch. tituss: in their home. carol: my home that i'm renting to them, i feel at home with them.

we are some little strange family unit. that is how it is going. i think we all really need each other. charlie: kimmy went to college? ellie: yeah, she went to columbia. not just any college. which is great. charlie: it is in new york. ellie: yes, and kimmy gets into columbia on a rowing scholarship, which is not an actual thing. ivy league schools do not give athletic scholarships. charlie: they do have a road teams. viewed kfellow rower immy. one of her traits is that she is impossibly strong from living in the bunker. but i like to think she was just born up certainly strong. she gets to go to columbia on a rowing scholarship, but turns out she's not as smart as we might like her to be.

i think she has some books marts -- she has some streetsmarts. she is socially smart. charlie: meaning she gets people and knows how to be from a to people? ellie: i think so, and how to navigate social situations. spoiler alert, she fails out of college. charlie: what is the impact of those 15 years on her today? ellie: i think a relentless optimism. i think she was born with an ability to persevere and this tenacity. she has seen the worst of human behavior. so i think nothing can shock her. but instead of giving up hope in her fellow man it only , reinforces it. i don't know how much of that can be taught or learned through an experience like that. i tend to believe she was born with it. and she willed herself to make it through. charlie: how does titus recover from his breakup from his

boyfriend? worst of human behavior. so i think nothing can shocktitf ago beyonce releases an album called "lemonade." which was revolutionary. and provocative and highly praised. and so, the cultural impact that had on pop culture has been long-lasting, well into season three, which premiered a year after "lemonade" properly premiered. at any rate, the creatives decided the way to exorcise broken heart would take to eliminating -- improving upon what beyonce did.

he is very crafty so he makes this wonderful costume in the likeness of what beyonce wore and goes singing and smashing everything in his path to demonstrate the gravity and the depth of the hurt. charlie: how involved are tina and robert on this? ellie: they are very involved. carol: thank goodness. charlie: are they on the phone about script and character development? carol: absolutely. not only on the phone, maybe once in a while a lunch is involved. charlie: let's talk about your character. do robert and tina fey talk together? carol: yeah. they are responsive to input,

but they also have a strong image of where you're going. they are very hands-on, on the set, thing goodness. when tina comes down on the set i just about get down on my knees and beg her for any little tip she wants to give me. charlie: you have been doing this acting thing for a while. carol: yes, darling. yes, too long. but talent is talent, nothing to do with chronological age. charlie: and you are talking to the person who created the words you're going to say. carol: yeah, we really like to stick to the script, because it is so good. once in a while one of us will get a brilliant idea, i have an idea for that line, and we will try it on one or two takes and say, forget it. they wrote it perfect, just shut up. ellie: i would say one or the other is always on set. is that fair to say?

that mug should be there, too -- dotting every i. charlie: that kind of detail? ellie: that's why they're so good. charlie: it is a fun production. tituss: it is a fun place to be. ellie: they brought so much of their crew from "30 rock." everyone has been working together for such a long time. charlie: do they capture the spirit of "30 rock"? ellie: i think it is very similar. the same genius does the music on both shows. even though they are different subject matter, similar tone, fast talking very zippy. , tituss: lots of jokes. carol: i never know what i'm saying, but people laugh and i'm grateful. but then i have to say what does that mean -- [laughter] charlie: thank you. thank you for joining us, we'll see you next time. ♪

got you outnumbered. the dinosaurs' extinction... don't listen to them. not appropriate. now i'm mashing these potatoes with my stick of butter... why don't you sit over here.

find your awesome with the xfinity stream app. included with xfinity tv. more to stream to every screen. alisa: i am alisa parenti in

washington. you are watching "bloomberg technology." congressional republicans react to president trump's comments about the violence in charlottesville. lindsey graham says the president took a step backwards by suggesting there is moral equivalency between white supremacists neo-nazis and kkk. -- members who attended the charlottesville rally. mitch mcconnell said messages of hate and bigotry are not welcome in kentucky and should not be welcome anywhere in america. president trump says he is disbanding advisory groups after ceos quit saying trump failed to condemn white supremacists.