♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: maria sharapova is here. she is a five-time grand slam tennis champion. she is one of the world's most recognizable athletes. she has been ranked number one on five different occasions through her career. in 2016, she was suspended in -- suspended from competition for two years after testing positive for a banned substance. the sentence was consequently shortened to 15 months after the court found she bore no significant fault and did not intend to cheat. she writes about that ordeal and her personal journey to the top of the tennis world in a book she titles, "unstoppable: my life so far."

i am pleased to have maria sharapova back at this table. welcome. maria: thank you. good to be back. charlie: i saw you a year ago, a very different time. maria: a very different time. i remember this table and this setting. it was my first interview. charlie: what has happened that you look to as indicative of where your future is? maria: the first step of being back, back on the court, back playing, has been incredible. it is what i wanted when i was at this table. it is what i looked forward to, that competition that i missed so much of playing the game that i have been doing since i was a young girl. getting that back in april was extremely special. i certainly have had my ups and downs with injuries since that, and having that memorable u.s. open a couple of weeks ago. charlie: why was it memorable? maria: memorable for a few reasons. one, because i had not played at the u.s. open for a few years because of the suspension and because of previous injuries.

and it was the first grand slam back after 19 months. there was just something more in the air. there is just something, there is a sense of excitement. there is nothing like going out and playing a primetime match at the u.s. open. charlie: and you beat the number two seed. maria: the number two seed. i came home to the hotel room after that match and felt happy. it was a really good feeling. a really good feeling to have. the next day, i did not get much sleep. it was a late-night match. after the press, after the treatment and everything you do, after the recovery, you go to bed at 2:00 or 3:00. i did not want to sleep. i was so happy. charlie: then what happened? maria: i ended up going out in the fourth round. [laughter] charlie: what happened to the game there? maria: what happened to the game, it was a physical match. and in the end, i just did not have enough. you know, i didn't play smart. i felt like usually in those situations i find myself playing

with instinct, but i did not feel like i had enough match play to really feel that way. i really was not smart in certain situations and that was costly. charlie: did you get upset when you were not granted a wildcard to play? maria: at the french? charlie: yeah. maria: i was sad. i would not say upset. i understood the situation. charlie: it was your first tournament back. maria: it would have been my first grand slam back. i understood the circumstance and i knew it was a tough decision. therefore, i could not be upset about it. i think i was sad because i wanted to be there and because the tournament is so special. when you are a two-time champion at that event and it is the tournament you want to come back at as a grand slam, it was disappointing but i understood it. charlie: can you say now to me, look, i had a tough time, i had to face a difficult issue. i had to be away from tennis, and now i am back, i just beat the number two seed at the u.s. open. i feel good about my health.

i feel good about my game. i feel good about my future. i am 30 years old. maria: i feel like this is a life lesson. [laughter] charlie: a what? maria: a life lesson. charlie: you do. maria: it is, very much so. i have overcome a lot in the last couple of years. we talked about it in depth last time i was here. it was a difficult time. it brought out a lot of emotions and a lot of uncertainties. i faced it head on. i am on the other side of it. charlie: that is my question -- are you on the other side? maria: i am. i feel like i am. i feel that i have moved on. just being out on the court takes away everything else that goes on around me because it is just me and what i have to do. charlie: are you happiest on the court? maria: yeah. i love it there. i really do. charlie: when you look ahead, is there any part of your game that still need sharpening?

maria: yeah, a lot of things i can take from the open. breakpoint opportunities, conversions. serving smarter. not giving them free points. being a little bit more consistent. i thought i moved pretty well after not playing a long time, so that was a positive. the body has been struggling a little since i came back. but overall, i am pretty happy with the future. charlie: thinking about young women and young men just getting into tennis -- nobody was as young as you were when you went away to a tennis academy between seven and nine years old. away from home, away from russia, to florida. maria: right. charlie: but looking at the experience you have had since then, tell us how important your footwork is how important is the , way you move on the court to becoming a first-rate player? maria: it proved to be very important. charlie: you're 6'2". maria: i am 6'2".

that is already difficult as it is, to move. but movement is a huge part of tennis. so many quick steps. now you see so many players sliding on the courts, on hard courts. on the clay courts, i slide here and there. but on the hard courts, i barely do that, if not at all. but you see a lot of players doing that. it has become quicker, it has become faster. some of the surfaces such as the grass court, the game has slowed down. the grass that was many years ago, it relies more on being in the point, getting yourself in the point than the serve and return you really counted on a lot. you still do, but not as much as in 2004 when i won it. charlie: who is the most important influence on your tennis today? maria: a lot of people. i think everyone -- as i grew older, you realize in every stage of your career you need different influences and different people. what you needed as a teenager from a coach is very different to what you need today. charlie: how is that?

maria: i think when you're young, you need a little more discipline. get your mind in the right direction. charlie: is it what they call in loco parentis, in place of parent? maria: it might be. i always thought, i have matured and realized if it is not you who wants it, no one else will for you. charlie: parents cannot give you that. you have to want it. maria: you have to want it. they can want it as much as they want. charlie: why you? and back to this, "my life so far," what was it inside of you that made you want it? was it that you loved it? you talk about it was not just winning for you. you wanted to defeat. [laughter] charlie: it is a killer instinct i think, or some variation of that. maria: as part of the process of writing this book, i started by looking at all of the journals i have been writing since i was a young girl.

a lot of them were just these repetitive words of, that i am going to do well, i'm going to defeat this player, i'm going to play well, i'm going to concentrate, i'm going to focus. and i was probably eight or nine years old when i was writing these words. no one told me to keep a journal. no one told me what to say. it was sort of this self-esteem confidence i put on paper and in my mind. i never shared it with anyone else. so, i think it was -- i know i got an incredible opportunity. i think i realized it. even though my parents did not necessarily put pressure on me, i wanted to deliver for them. charlie: what is interesting is you suggest you were not the quickest. maria: no. i am still not. [laughter] charlie: not the fastest. but you have stamina, or you have had stamina. maria: right.

charlie: the capacity to come out it stroke after stroke. and thehe repetition habit you create with repetition. like when my mother was making me memorize these lines from russian poets and pushkin. and i was too young to really understand what they meant. it for her, it was like a lesson that this is hard for you and you might not know its meaning. but the fact that you are, in your mind, reworking these lines and phrases and paragraphs and memorizing them, i developed a sense of discipline that will ultimately take you to the court when you have to hit 500 balls at a time. charlie: you also gave tribute to nelson mandela for this idea, that it is not so much -- what is more important in life is the capacity to get up when you fall because you will inevitably fall. maria: that is the quote i start with in the book. i had that in my mind when i was writing the book. i love reading. i know when you open a book, there is either a quote or passage or a dedication. i thought every page of the book

would be important. i remember exactly where i contributed to each page. charlie: how much does the attention, all of the sort of recognition, all of the time you spend on branding and the companies you have, how much time does that take away from the betterment of your tennis game? maria: i wouldn't say it takes away. i think it gives me a chance to step back and do things that are different to what i do. when you are in your world, which for me is an athlete's world, a tennis player's world, you are so in this bubble. you are always around the same people, your team. and you rarely get out of it. it is great in so many ways because your focus and determination goes on to this one thing and this one path. but i do think it is important to branch out. and things that you want to work on and things that you want to be a part of, and i want to

grow. charlie: you're not going to play tennis all your life. maria: no. and i started when i was so young. i know that will always be the best thing i know how to do. but that should not limit me from wanting to grow in other areas of my life. charlie: you went to sochi after chernobyl. you said if that had not happened, your life would have been different. how would it have been? maria: i think my parents would would still continue living in belarus, which was a very poor country. i certainly would not be playing tennis. and i would not be living in the united states. so i would say very different. charlie: part of this book is serena, who just had a baby. maria: yes. charlie: characterize the competition. because i am not sure what the latest is, but one point it was 19-2 in favor of serena. does she have your game better than anybody? does she have your number better than anybody? or is she simply that good? she is the best? maria: definitely.

i think it is both of those things. definitely. charlie: she has your game in part. by that, i mean she knows how to win against you. maria: yes. and there are many things that she does better than i do. charlie: tick them off. what do you do better than she? maria: what do i do better? i think a lot of that is intangibles. i think she hits harder than i do even though i am an , aggressive player. she serves better than i do. there are a lot of things, yeah. charlie: how much of the game for you is mental? maria: the game of tennis, a lot of it is mental. charlie: when we say that, what do we mean? the will to win? maria: the mental aspects are things you are not able to write down. the mental aspect of being in the situation when it is a tie-break in the third set, those are not things your coach can teach you.

those are not -- you begin playing by instinct. a lot of tennis and sports are run by numbers. there are facts and statistics and game plans. you know where they are most likely going to serve based on their patterns. but when you get to that situation, you rely on your mind, your reaction, your experience. and that is all mental. those are not numbers. because i always have this debate with my coach because he is very much a numbers guy as well. he pulls out the tablet and shows me all the statistics. tennis is very much about numbers. and i say, there are a lot of things if you measure me against other players, if you take me to the gym and tell me to use these weights or do these squats and the sprints and take me on the treadmill for this length i will , not win against anyone. but i can go on the court and beat them. so if you measure me against those numbers, you would think i have no chance. charlie: what is the difference?

maria: that i have this will and that i have this ability to know that it is not just about power. it is not just about strength. it is not just about endurance. charlie: the mind and the will to win and the ferociousness of your mental attitude. maria: also knowing it is not about perfection. it is not always about being great. that is something i say in the book. there is only a handful of times in my career where i felt like i finished the match and it was flawless, like everything happened according to plan and i hit the patterns and i knew exactly what i wanted to do. but so many times, i came off the court and felt like i played terrible. i made a lot of mistakes. but what did i do to end up being on the winning end of things? and that is what you -- those are the matches that give me confidence. charlie: you should read -- and i am plugging the book because i read it and think it said

something really incredible about him, tom brady. the quarterback of the patriots has a new book out. called "pb12" i think. maria: is it a diet book? charlie: it is more than a diet book. it is an exercise book, but it is also an attitude book. attitude book. basically, the sense he was not the top draft pick. he never started in college or in the pros when he was expected to be the starting quarterback. he worked his way up. he was never the fastest. he never had the strongest arm. he had none of those things. he worked on all of those things. maria: you have to. charlie: he started out simply knowing he had to overcome differences in people who were more athletically gifted, had certainly been described as having more potential than he did at the time, but he is now probably the greatest quarterback perhaps ever to play in the national football league because of the same thing you are talking about. maria: i agree. charlie: and the capacity to

learn and the capacity to be disciplined. maria: and to want to. i think it is a choice that we want to learn. it is not like it just happens. charlie: nobody is forcing you to learn. maria: yeah. i think that is what makes those athletes great, is they choose to want to get up in the morning and learn and get better and accept their weaknesses. one of the shifts i had in my career was realizing what those were in order for me to improve on them, in order to get me better. charlie: you won wimbledon when you were 18. maria: 17. charlie: 17. [laughter] charlie: 17, grand slam, wimbledon. how many years ago that was? you are now 30. that was 13 years ago. has it worked out the way you wanted it to work out? and if not, how do you hold yourself responsible? maria: i think as a young girl, i never -- i knew that wimbledon and the u.s. open, that was the top of the top and that is where i saw myself and where i wanted

to do really well. i wanted to hold those trophies. i wanted those championships. but what i really wanted, i wanted to get through the day and i wanted to feel like everything in that day, i did the best i could. and something in my mind -- and i also believe it is the discipline i learned from an early age. you put a string of those days together, and you will get there. and so i never had, like, i never set a plan for myself. and i don't think -- that is not the way i do things. charlie: if someone asked you at that time when you were 17 and you won wimbledon, what is the most important in your life, i guess you would say winning tennis tournaments. if i ask you at 30, what is the most important thing in your life, what would you say? maria: people. relationships. charlie: relationships? maria: relationships with people. valuable. really understanding -- charlie: are you good at that? maria: i can always improve on that.

charlie: looking ahead, what is possible? maria: many things. [laughter] charlie: what are you hopeful about, other than better relationships? [laughter] maria: i am getting better. i don't know. charlie: grand slam wins. maria: yeah, those are definitely there. the commitment. i hope for continued commitment from myself, the effort. charlie: does it get harder because there are more choices now? maria: no. i have had a lot of choices in my career. i've had to make a lot of choices. i have always chosen to be an athlete. that is what has given me the biggest satisfaction and something i know the best because i have done it for so long. charlie: and you do the best. i once asked ted williams, why baseball? he said because i did it well. early on, people said you are

good. i wanted to be better. and the more they said i was better, i wanted to be even better. people like doing things they are good at. one of the great early things we all should probably achieve is to find something we have great natural instincts and skills for. maria: it is not easy though. i was fortunate that my parents helped me with that. that someone like martina navratilova was able to see a talent in me when i was only five years old. or the fact my father was able to pave the way for me and find the right people for me that guided me literally to the stage of center court at wimbledon. charlie: "unstoppable: my life so far," maria sharapova. and there she is. right there. how old were you, seven? maria: seven, that was in florida. at the academy, i believe court number three. my dad cut my hair there, and it looks awful. [laughter] charlie: much success. come back to see me anytime.

maria: thank you very much. thanks for having me. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ charlie: and now about tough mudder. the extreme obstacle course racing industry has quickly become a $250 million business. leading the pack is will dean, he is the founder and ceo of tough mudder. with obstacles like electroshock

therapy, tough mudder claims to be probably the toughest event on the planet. here is a look at tough mudder. [begin video clip] will: take advantage of this moment. this course today is about taking on your fear. that is what all of these challenges are. and when you cross that finish line, if you did this right, you will have that feeling. will: this is something bigger than me. this is bigger than i normally do. being outdoors, i get to run, i get to climb, i get to jump. i get to do everything. >> it is a teambuilding activity. it is all about having fun and getting close as a group. >> my first one, i was really scared. they really got me through it. >> i cannot imagine a greater group of people. >> this is definitely out of the i would choose to go do on a normal saturday in my life. >> it is awesome. i would not have been able to make it through the whole thing without these guys next to me.

>> you are the baddest of the bad. if you can finish tough mudder. why not try it out? [end video clip] charlie: dean's new book gives readers an inside look at the early beginnings of his company and what it takes to grow a successful business. it is called "it takes a tribe: building the tough mudder movement." i am pleased to have him here at this table for the first time. welcome. how did tough mudder start? will: it started in all places at a triathlon where my wetsuit jammed and i turned to the guy next to me in this race -- neither of us were in danger of winning it -- and said, will you pull on the zipper? the guy was so focused on his time he said no. i wondered if i could create an event that is less selfish and more about the team. i was a harvard mba getting my degree. i entered the harvard business school competition, business plan competition. one of my professors said this

is a terrible idea. no one will come and do it. we had our first event in 2010. we now have 3 million people doing the event worldwide. charlie: describe the event we just saw. will: let me tell you what it is not. it is not a race. it is a challenge. it is about teamwork and camaraderie. the main event is 10 miles, military style, that tests you mentally and physically. andre starting with a 5-k the world's toughest is a 24-hour nonstop tough mudder that takes place in the nevada desert. charlie: but what is it about then? will: it is all about team. it is all about community. it is all about bringing people together. we live in this age where more and more of us are connected by social media. we look at each other's lives online. but we spend less time interacting with people and being part of a team. tough mudder is a challenge you can be proud of. charlie: i would've thought that harvard business professors would understand how team is important for successful

business enterprises. if this builds team, it would seem to me they would in fact endorse it right away. will: they probably think there is the strange englishman who knows nothing about putting on events, which i understand. they are probably worried about the liability part. charlie: so they are looking at it as a business proposition? will: i think with many things, at the time, conventional wisdom was that races have to be races. there has to be a winner and everyone has to be timed and ranked and judged. the idea that you would do something just for the hell of it was alien. charlie: does it matter if you finish? will: most people get through it. some people do not come up with the vast majority do. what does not matter is your course time. some people take all day to get through it. charlie: finishing brings a certain amount of pride in the sense that i have been able to do it. will: correct. i think people are proud. one of the things i am most proud of are the people who write to me and say i was getting bullied at work and went into work on monday with my orange headband on full of confidence and i told my boss, , you don't get to speak to me that way anymore, i am a tough mudder. it gives people confidence. they do something that

challenges themselves and they take it to other parts of their lives. charlie: why do they do it? for that reason? will: i think people want to push themselves. i think that is innate in all human beings. they want to try things and be part of something bigger than themselves. if you see a tough mudder running in hyde park or central park in new york, and they are wearing the shirt and so are you, you will probably high-five them. this idea that you are part of something bigger than yourself. 20,000 people have the logo tattooed on them. i think that says something about the tribe. charlie: can they get that at the end of the track when they finish? will: they can get it at the end of the event. many of them go away feeling good and go to the local shop and get a tattoo and send a picture because they are proud of it. charlie: where do you want to go with this? will: we started in the core events business and are now moving into the training space. we have tough mudder boot camps which are expanding across the u.s. we bring the community into the gym environment. the idea of team training. we are also doing a lot in the media space. we have several different broadcast deals around the world and we are of course growing our

sponsorship business. we started as an events company. we are becoming a sports media and entertainment company. but we are also becoming a global tribe. charlie: the book title is "it takes a tribe." what does that mean? will: i believe the reason we have been successful is we have this mission. the mission underpinning everything is creating this community based on the values of teamwork, camaraderie, and overcoming obstacles. one of the central lessons, whether you want to become an entrepreneur or not is this idea , that great companies have a purpose above and beyond just making money. they serve to do something. at tough mudder, i don't pretend we are curing cancer. but we are getting people off the couch leading healthier, active lives. charlie: where else might it go? will: we are doing the gyms. we are now doing a little tv. some of the events are competitive, but the vast majority is about the storytelling, the everyday heroes that come to our events. we are expanding internationally into asia. we are in 10 countries, soon to

be 20 countries. you add in the media, the new event concepts, we have the 5k, a half, the full, the toughest, and the world's toughest. we have events business, the media business, and the training. charlie: how much of this came from ideas you learned as a counterterrorism officer in the british services? will: what came from that is the value of teamwork and camaraderie, not letting other people fail. the idea that for you to succeed, others also have to succeed. anything we achieve is based on team. i think that was very, very central to the five years i spent charlie: thank you for coming. will dean, founder and c.e.o. of tough mudder. the book is called "it takes a tribe," his story of building the tough mudder movement. stay with us. back in a moment. ♪

♪ charlie: do you accept no responsabilities for the failures of this administration? >> i did not say that, i didn't say that at all. when you say failures, it is eight months in. give me a failure. obamacare didn't start for the first 18 months. by the way if cassidy graham , goes through, he may have it cause i revealed and replaced in

the first nine months of his administration. you are holding him to an unfair standard. let's go back to what he's done on the economy. in the economy, it is 3% growth. unemployment is at an all-time low. and by the way, donald trump has to keep telling people that because the mainstream media will not report it. why not? because it is donald trump being successful. they are not out there to defeat him. they are out there to destroy him. look what he did on daca the other day. ok i don't agree with the , decision, but understand how he struggled with it. i understand how he is giving the possibility of legislation and he even said last night in a tweet, he would rethink it. trust me, the guys on the far right and conservative side are not happy with this. all night last night, all cnn snbc, all mainstream media wants to do is to destroy donald trump. charlie: can i remind you -- steve: there is nothing he can do to make the people happy. charlie: can i remind you, a good catholic, that cardinal dolan is opposed to what is happening with doc ayako --

daca? steve: the catholic church has been terrible about this. officials have been terrible about this. by the way -- you know why. unable to come to grips with the problems of the church, they need illegal aliens. they need illegal aliens to fill the churches. that is what the entire catholic bishops are condemning. they have an economic interest, an economic interest in unlimited immigration, unlimited illegal immigration. charlie: that's quite something to say about your church. steve: as much as i respect cardinal nolan and the bishops on doctrine, this is not doctrine. this is not doctrine at all. i totally respect the pope and i totally respect the catholic bishops and cardinals on doctrine. this is not about doctrine. this is about the sovereignty of a nation. in that regard, i am just another guy with an opinion. charlie: you have a media image. i'm more interested in how you think about yourself. you said a lot of things. people think of you as a

barbarian. think of you as almost a leninist. tell me how you see steve bannon , because you think of yourself as a historical character with historical opportunity. steve: no, phil rucker said it best in "the washington post." he said bannon is the only person in donald trump's inner circle that thinks donald trump is truly a global historical -- global, revolutionary figure. historical. i have been very blessed in this process to work in this campaign and work as one of the senior advisers in the white house, figure. he is a guy if he sees through the program that he laid out, he will truly be one of the greatest presidents in history.

charlie: and you have, yourself said, with respect to china that , if in fact i can wage effective economic warfare against the chinese, 100 years from now we might very well see the triumph of western thought. steve: i said something very different. i said in 100 years -- this is what i said -- they are going to -- back at this time ?harlie: about you steve: no and the only thing , they are going to remember us about, about who was in the government, about this generation, the one thing they will remember that will be historically important is how we engaged the chinese in this great struggle for who is going to be a hegemonic power. by the way i absolutely believe , that. the long sweep of history -- by the way you can't understand , brexit for 2016 until you understand the context of that. the contextual framework of that was china.

china is the exporting of , chinese deflation and chinese overcapacity that destroyed the middle and heartland of england and the midland and upper midwest of the united states. that is the context. by the way, it is going to drive 2018, 2020. it is going to be at the forefront of our discussion. the 301, this action president trump is taking to try and actually revert their forced technology transfers to take away our innovation from silicon valley, that is what is going to be looked at as the single biggest shot, and that is going to reverse the economic warfare china has had on us. it will begin the reversal, but i think it is going to take many decades to work this through, but i will tell you one thing. i've got a pretty good track record of being able to see over the next hill. the situation with china, our relationship with china, how we balance that relationship will drive politics for the next couple cycles. charlie: politics?

steve: absolutely. american politics. charlie cole: because of the impact of the economy -- charlie: because of the impact of the economy? steve: absolutely. you see it in bernie sanders and sharrod brown already. when the factories went to china, there is a direct correlation of opioid addiction among the former factory workers. if you go today -- charlie: so therefore they turned to drugs is what you are saying. steve: they had no room and you can't flip burgers in a burger king for too long. charlie: so the chinese factories left and -- steve: because they have no jobs. the unemployment is there. you cannot set up something for your children and your grandchildren. charlie: how do you want to be perceived, you, today? you have a media image. steve: the media is pretty accurate. i'm a street fighter. that's what i am. charlie: you're more than that. steve: i think i'm a street

fighter. breitbart is fights that matter, #war. we are prepared, we like to get it on, we like to engage people we like to fight. ,i am a fighter, and by the way i think that's why donald trump , and i get along so much. donald trump is a fighter. great counterpunch or great , counterpuncher. he will not stop. he's relentless. because he's a fighter. he's a fighter. he's a fighter for the american workers. they understood that. i was honored to be at his side. by the way, i'm going to be his wing man outside for the entire time. charlie: so you will not be attacking donald trump. steve: no our purpose is to , support donald trump. charlie: so you are not enemies: -- enemies? stew: to make sure his enemies know there is no free shot -- after the charlottesville situation, i told general kelly i was the only guy that came out and tried to defend him. i'm the only guy who said he is talking about something at a higher level. where does this all go? does it end in taking down the washington monument?

does it end in taking down -- charlie: i will tell you where many people suggest it should have gone. it should have gone in terms of denouncing, specifically, from the very beginning neo-nazis and , white supremacists and people of that political view, the should have gone there because those are the people that americans in world war ii went to fight against. he should have instantly denounced them. and you didn't at first instinct. in fact, you seemed to be doubling down in terms of moral equivalency. steve: i think he does see an equivalent. by the way, with antifa, which has come out as a domestic terrorist organization they were , there to pick a fight. by the way, what he was trying to say is that people who support the monuments staying there peacefully and oppose that, that is the normal course of the first amendment. he's talking about the neo-nazis and neo-confederates and the way areo, by the

, absolutely awful. there's no room in american society for that. there's a fault on both sides. he was talking about antifa, who are also anarchists. they were there looking for a fight. but he took it to a higher level the next day, and i thought it was very powerful. and by the way, the american people support him. 62% of people said they agree that the monuments on to be a local thing. 88% of the republican party. all donald trump is saying is, where does it end? visit and with taking down the washington monument? mount rushmore? taking churchill's bust out of the oval office? -- and im, my problem told general kelly this -- when you side with a man, you side with him. i was proud to come out and try to defend president trump in the media that day. charlie: no exceptions in terms of siding with someone? steve: you can tell him hey, you might do it a better way, but if you are going to break with him, resign. the stuff that was leaked out

that week by the white house was unacceptable. if you find it unacceptable, you should resign. charlie: who are you talking about? steve i'm talking obviously : about gary cohen and some other people. if you don't like what he is doing and don't agree with it, you have an obligation to resign. charlie: so gary cohen should have resigned. steve: absolutely. i haven't talked to gary. it's what the media said he was so upset about, that he leaked to the media. charlie: why do you think he was upset? steve: i think he was upset because he thought the president was hard on him. [indiscernible] steve: i'm not saying you can't be upset about it. he can't come to a different conclusion about it. charlie: are you upset about 80? steve i was of the opinion that : you can condemn both the racists and the neo-nazis because they are getting a free ride off of donald trump. hang on they are getting a free , ride because it is a small group, a vicious group. they add no value and all they do is show up, and the mainstream media makes them up as some huge part of donald trump's coalition. he has condemned these people from day one. they are not part of our

coalition -- charlie: david duke. steve: david duke shows up for every media opportunity because -- charlie: but the media does not make david duke say what he says, that he applauded what the president did. that's what david duke did. steve: the president has condemned david duke and what he stands for consistently. charlie: and so do you. steve: absolutely. i come from the south. my dad would tell stories about the klan tarring and feathering priests. that was back in the 1930's. anyone who was raised in the south in that era who is catholic understands they are a hate group. i'm am so proud of the south and how far it has come racially. the klan and these haters have no part in the south and in american society. here's what is happening. you have these morons, richard spencer and these clowns on the racial thing and the anti-semitic thing, and the left media actually gives them a platform. it is ridiculous. it is ridiculous.

this is made up to be much bigger than they are. these are a marginal people that have no impact in our movement. economic nationalism is the one unifying element because it is stopping the elites in this country from is this a rating the black working-class and scerating the black working-class and hispanic working-class. it is economic nationalism that binds us together. it is making this country economically as strong as possible for its citizens. it is a uniter, not a divider. by the way, the left, all they try to do is identity politics. i say this every day, the more you play identity politics, we will win because hispanics and blacks understand that if there's jobs and careers there, and they need to take care of their families, those children and grandchildren can get into engineering schools, computer science and go to silicon valley , and work, and this country is going to be more prosperous, and that is a winner. identity politics is a loser. charlie: let me go through this. steve: boy, you got me worked up

here. charlie: i know. stay with me. this is the first television interview have done. steve: yes. ever. charlie: when you read someone that says you are an anti-semite, you have spoken about that with respect to breitbart and you. when they say you are a racist. steve: it is ridiculous. i mean in richmond, virginia i , was raised in a blue-collar middle class neighborhood. , my parents, when it started to become desegregated, all the blacks started moving to the neighborhood, all of the neighbors started running for the suburbs. we still lived in the same house we bought in 1957. it was a predominantly black neighborhood. tim kaine lives around the corner. it is a preeminently black neighborhood in the north side of richmond which is , overwhelmingly black. by the way, they are neighbors. i was a paperboy to that. i was raised and lived with black people. i am not a racist. a totally desegregated neighborhood. charlie: so why do you think people raise the question?

steve: i think they saw immediately that they were afraid of this economic nationalism, and the left had to go white supremacists, neil nationalism to try to defeat us, and they couldn't. when she came off the beach was -- white nationalism to do p defeat us, and they couldn't. clinton's very first speech when she came off the beach was nonsense. hillary clinton is not very bright. she does homework nine hours a night to get a's. you can see that in her speech. she does not have a grasp of what is important and what is not. donald trump has a grasp on what is important and what is marginally. that speech of hers is an embarrassment. breitbart, alt-right, ethno-nationalism, white supremacists. it landed flat. do you know why? charlie: because you want no ethno-nationalists? no part of any of those people?

steve: this is absurd. first off, not only is it morally wrong, it is totally of irrelevant. economic nationalism is what we were based on. we look after our own. we look after our citizens. we look after our manufacturing base and guess what? this country is going to be more greater, more united, more powerful than it has ever been. we are going to be great again. as long as you are an american citizen, you are part of this populist economic national movement. by the way that 65%, 70% of the , country. people don't get that. by the way, that is [indiscernible] >> ♪ i-d-e-a, ideas ♪ -- [indiscernible] they are trying to run the only , question before us, is it going to be left-wing or right-wing populism? that is the question that will be answered in 2020. charlie: let's talk about the worldview.

clearly this president loves military people. great confidence in general mattis, secretary of defense. respects military people because he has pushed out more authority to people in the field. points you have raised. do you worry about their influence with him at all? in terms of getting more troops overseas in different hotspots like afghanistan? somethinghink it is deeper. the team, with general mattis, kelly, dunford, the president does respect. he respects people have been in tough trials and who have had real life experience, and he respects the generals and those around him. and these guys i think give him a lot of prudent recommendations. i think it is a good team.

i think it is a really good team. i disagree with some of the policies, but it is something different. my problem is not with the individuals and what they are proposing. my problem is with this postwar rules-based international order that has a system of financial and trade relationships and the united states is the underwriter and guarantor of its security from europe all the way to the northwest pacific. we can't go on like that. here is the reason. europe -- they are not allies. it is a protectorate. up in northwest pacific, japan, south korea, we basically have a system that the united states in the south china sea to the european union to the northwest pacific. we are the ultimate guarantors and underwrite this rules-based system. the question gets to become a is -- gets to be, is it time for something different? charlie: why shouldn't a nation

as big as china with its own economy, the second largest in the world, i think the economy is the largest in the world. purchase power everything is per , capita. why shouldn't they have a big say so in the world economy? steve: i didn't say they shouldn't. i didn't say they shouldn't. i just said that we have to face the fact they are at economic war with us. forced technology transfer. if the 301 was greeted on silicon valley and wall street is finally coming, forced technology transfer -- charlie: meaning if you want to go into the chinese market, you are forced to give up some of your technology to participate. steve: all of it. that is the number one problem. and by the way it is not the , stealing of the technology. it is the forced to technology transfer.

that is going to be an incredibly difficult problem to solve because it speaks to capital markets, to fiduciary responsibility. charlie: speaking of your worldview, north korea. there has been a lot of saber rattling on both sides, the north koreans, the president. and some very stern statements by general mattis, general dunsford, secretary of defense. you have said repeatedly they are fooling themselves if they think there is a military solution. steve: the important point of what i said is that the issues between us and china, ok? summer,eginning of the we were talking about charlie: you said there is no military solution. it will kill too many people. steve: from day one, i have said the issue is between us and north korea. the open literature about the military situation in korea is

open literature. the situation is open literature. i have said the problem is china. at the beginning of the summer , i think it was memorial day when we were discussing whether or not they had an atomic bomb. now on labor day we are discussing whether they have a thermonuclear weapon, a hydrogen bomb. the complexities is not linear. charlie: so we have no military options. steve: my suggestion and recommendation is to solve the problem in korea with china. it is a client state of china. charlie: the president has tried to make is with the chinese to get them engaged. he even said he would go easy on trade if they would help with north korea, correct? steve: i think it is coming upon us in the right to make sure we have the president's back in continuing that and doubling down on those efforts. -- what isfforts going to lead -- look i am just , one guy. he's got the best advice in the these are very -- in the world.

these are very -- rex tillerson, general dunford, general mattis. you cannot have a higher quality national security team. many people have said this in the establishment. they have information that i am not privy to. i am saying i have tremendous respect for them, but i am just giving another alternative. that alternative to me is the logical alternative. the solution to korea runs through beijing. we have to engage beijing. by the way they are saying we , are doing everything they can. it is not good enough. charlie: they being the chinese. steve: we have tremendous leverage to force china. charlie: what would you do? steve: i think we have tremendous leverage on sanctions and tremendous leverage in capital markets. i think we have tremendous leverage with chinese banks, with chinese financial institutions. we have tremendous leverage. tremendous leverage. charlie: why haven't we used it? steve: you don't use it lightly. it would have an impact here in the united states in terms of capital markets.

charlie: most people think it -- if we get into a trade war with china it will have a detrimental effect on both economies. steve: i'm not advocating a trade war. i have never advocated a trade war with china. what i am advocating is that china is at economic war with us. that is on the face of it, and there are many experts to back me up. and by the way, their open source literature, unrestricted warfare, it was written by two chinese generals, and a talk about how they are going to hit with all forces of state power. and by the way their number one , thing is to avoid military confrontation with united states of america and to do it economically. charlie: because they are getting better and bigger and more powerful, so they want to avoid conflict. steve: by the way, think about one belt, one road for a second. one belt, one road is the combination of the geopolitical

series of make and are -- mc driven those that have western civilization for 200 years. saying they are not expansionist, they are geopolitically expansionist. one road shows that. charlie: let me go back to the president. you speak to him even now. what is the conversation now? steve: i don't want to speak about my conversations with the president. he deserves to have confidentiality. he is cut off from people he normally talks to, and that is way overblown. charlie: give us a sense of what it is like in the white house with donald trump. steve: it is fantastic. charlie: what is his day like? steve: his days are action packed. he starts early in the morning. this guy, he does not drink or party or anything like that he , works 20 hours a day, 18 hours a day. he is always working.

he comes down in the morning, there is a set of meetings, a set of briefings. charlie: the televisions are always on? office he in the oval , has a tv in his study but he is not watching it during the working day. not during the working day. maybe at night, but i've never seen him watch tv. when he eats lunch. every now and again. but he is a constant work. one thing people don't give him credit for is that this guy is a great listener. the way he gets briefings is by continually asking questions about the material. he remembers what you've said before. so if you are saying something different, he will cross-reference what you said before. so the meetings are a series -- i called the socratic method. i tell people when you go in there, you better be ready. be ready to defend what you are saying, because he will remember it. ♪

♪ jonathan: from new york city for our viewers worldwide, i'm jonathan ferro with 30 minutes dedicated to fixed income. this is "bloomberg real yield." ♪ jonathan: coming up, global reflation shows signs of life. chinese ppi beats estimates, u.s. price pressures grind higher. central banks react. the bank of canada delivers a surprise hike. the bank of england gives off its first in a decade. the reach for yields shows no sign of ending. austria issues its first century -- europe's first benchmark sized century bond with a yield of just 2.1%. we begin with a big issue. global reflation showing signs of a comeback. >> inflation remains well belo