♪ >> this is charlie rose. charlie rose is on assignment. we bring you his interview with ruth gator that preventer ginsburg. >> that was a easy job. this is the way women are, this is the way women are. this whole mentality that happens is that the men where the bread winners. the home.s just

the laws were arranged that way. that is how we wanted to break down. the idea was that people should be free. that they should be able to and as their own talents far as their hard work could take them. with these artificial barriers. ♪ street.me to the 92nd there are a lot of things we want to fill in with her biographical data. she was appointed by president clinton and served there when she came to the court with a extinguished career as a professor as a appeals court judge. as well as a litigator. she was a great trial lawyer. she has distinguished herself.

not trial. she was a teacher also. begin by talking. i'm know you cannot talk specifics of cases. you has said this session of court which begins on the first monday in october is going to be a moment this year. ruth: yes. charie: why is that. why coming before the court in a learned tot has respect the court so much, probably more so than the other two branches of government i may say. [applause] >> that is because we know how to disagree without being disagreeable. [applause] >> that is the quality of the

court and not of the country right now. >> you are going to tackle redistricting. think why bother voting? if this is a republican district or if this is a democratic district my vote does that count. none of this is for democracy. >> what else is coming up this year. has gottenase that the most attention is the bakers case. grexit is about a wedding. colorado who refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple. would sell them a ordinary cake and cookies. i would not create a wedding

cake for them because that would involve expression. i am kind of a artist. weddingake a cake for a i am creating. it is a clash between antidiscrimination on one hand and the colorado commission on human rights. that the andte business and sell cakes to people you cannot distinguish like that. of religious freedom. >> when did you fall in love with the law? did i? >> yes q have with your life in the laundry you married a lawyer. when i married my husband neither of us were lawyers. say it is when i was a

student at cornell. my first idea was to become a high school teacher. that was a job where women were welcome. the 50's they were bad times for the united states. huge red scare and the country. >> mccarthyism. >> yes, i work for constitutional law. it was pointed out to make that the senate investigating community -- committee were and quizzingople them about their association at the height of the depression in the 30's. there were lawyers standing up for these people and explain to the members of the congressional that our constitution

had the first amendment. they say people have the right and write as they believe. as big brother tells them. it is the right way. we also have the fifth amendment that protects us against self-incrimination. being a the idea that lawyer was a pretty nifty thing. >> and turned out well for you. >> you until law school and you went to harvard. >> my degree is from columbia. >> we are going to get there. when he went to columbia and then harvard and then you move back to new york and finished at columbia.

you took courses at columbia. later you wanted to get your degree from harvard. they wanted to give you even later the law school because the dean is now one of your fellow justices. you turned it down. you did not want a honorary degree from the law school and you wanted a honorary degree trump the university itself. very safe request with that. when he became dean of the harvard law school he called and said we love you. would love for you to have a muscle degree. my husband said to hold out for a honorary degree from the university. year 2011. in the

that was the year after he died. >> it was a fabulous marriage. >> yes. because he did the cooking. was thee beginning he weekend cook. i was never permitted to cook for company. then my daughter who is in the audience tonight when she was in his cooking was so much better than mine. why should he be just the weekend and company cook. so i was phased out of the kitchen. since 1980i have not made a meal.

>> and 37 years. what happened after he died in 2010 by daughter who was responsible for facing me out of the kitchen comes periodically to spend all day cooking. then put the individual dinners in my freezer. you have said to me before but you are considered with respect to women's rights as a marshall for feminism. [applause] anybody who knows about the history of the legal battles believes that. you have been very reticent of that comparison. >> yesterday it is not a apt comparison. sayever i did -- i should

we copied their good marshals technique. not asking the court to take a giant step. thurgood marshall would state that say to course separate but equal was not before the house today. he says they are on equal. in this case it was so he could say now we can see the enforced separation never be equal. we took that measuredsay approah of building step-by-step and copying that from him. when thurgood marshall came to a southern town to defend someone he did not know if he would be a light at the end of the day. -- a light at the end of the day. you have called herself a approach is feminist litigator.

>> a flaming feminist litigator. >> when they say that to you like it? >> might family as have i knew where that came from? i said yes i have heard of the notorious the ig. we have one very important thing in common. we were both born and bred in brooklyn, new york. [applause] you know something about him? >> yes, he died young. >> you also have a new book coming out. is it your trainer or you? >> it is called the rgb workout. >> what is your workout habit.

>> is it every day or every other day. >> twice a week. >> it started in 1999. of my bout with cancer. i had massive surgery. then i had nine months of chemotherapy. six weeks of daily radiation. that trying time my husband said you have to do something to build you up. i asked around town and a federal district court judge great trainer. he has trained a lot of the district court judges. that was bryant johnson who has been with me since 1999. we meet twice a week from 7:00

a.m. until 8:00 it a.m. and he has brought me up front a relatively easy beginning to the push-ups and the planks. [applause] >> adam said to me you are probably the most outspoken member of the court. do you enjoy that as well? you are out there and sometimes pulling back when you feel like you may have gone too far. adam's label.pute i would say with my good friend antonin scalia up was more outspoken. >> tell us about the friendship? you had a different look in

terms of the constitution. >> yes. >> the friendship transcended in other case. you have told me before what a lawsuit was for you when he died. >> there will be a book of his speeches out in october. it was put together by his sons. i wrote the introduction. well, i love him because he was a very funny guy. were on thewhen we circuit court he would say be soing and it would

i had to avoid bursting out laughing. i had to pinch myself to stop. we were separated right several seats he would pass notes to me. >> what you think of your new colleague justice gorsuch? he is very affable. , i firsty bright i can'tred him although say i recall him in particular. he was on the court of appeals for the d.c. circuit. when imember him from succeeded barbara white. neil to be his clerk.

byron was no longer sitting on the court he shared neil with justice kennedy. that was my first meeting with him. together from england where we did a paper together for that. ♪

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careers look back at the not only with the justices you when youn but also look back what is the most important majority opinion? me whichs like asking child i love the most. you feel strongly that some have been enormous a significant? >> yes. >> i would say the majority opinion in the virginia military institute case. to bmi -- vmiwent to celebrate the anniversary of that decision. it was a joy to see how well it had worked out. they are various different proud of that. there are those who want to be it was aengineers.

they have women on the faculty now. on the board of directors. in general what the staff told me is how much in a better place . >> since you have been a fighter in the trenches for women's rights, measure how far we have come and how far we have to go. , we arear we have come just about over the gender barriers in the law. in the decade -- that was the women areo get how and how men are. the whole separate spheres mentality that ran alter the law that the man was the bread

winner and if a woman at work she was the home. arranged that way. that is what we wanted to break down. the idea that people should be free. to be able to develop their own talents. as far as that could take them and not be held back by artificial barriers. that is how it was in the 60's. there were no women lease or fire fighters. the states have rules that women could network at nights. you were a server you get the best tips at night not in the afternoon there was so many distinctions that made no sense

for how people live today. say in the beginning of the 70's it was a closed door. these stores are close to women. >> now the doors are open. if they are shot they are violating title vii or principal discrimination in employment law. remains is the unconscious bias. >> what is that? existsimply sexism that without people knowing it? that they exercise a kind of unconscious discrimination.

>> it is not deliberate. it was a very good illustration. it is from the late 70's. at&t and not promoting women to so themanagement jobs in women did very well. at least as well as the men up which waslast test called a total person test. what was the total person test western market it was the would have aho conversation like we are having one. faced interviewer somebody who looked like him there was a certain comfort level. he felt at ease. if he was confronting somebody of a different gender or of a different race he would be a little and easy to he does not

quite know who this person is. strange and uncomfortable. last step women would drop a disproportionately. it was not because the interviewer deliberately engaged in discrimination. >> epic the best illustration of that unconscious bias is what happened to symphony orchestras across america when i was growing up i never saw a woman in the orchestra except for the heart player. a critic for the new york times

who was very distinguished swore he could tell the difference between a woman and a man play the violin or playing the piano. let's doeople decided a test. was quite full him. test heed the blindfold was all mixed up. the would say a man was a woman then somebody came up with the brilliant idea of dropping a curtain at the audition so that people who are doing the judging with that simple device they dropped a curtain and women began to show up in numbers. no longer one at a time or periodically to play.

once say something the answer to a western was not women on the supreme court? >> i was asked if you have three, when will there be enough? >> you said nine. [applause] what do we need? what do we need to break down the remaining unconscious barriers? >> and think for one thing the mark women there are that will enter these fields >> see you believe your life when they write about you that you are still on the court and you have these momentous questions that you would be one of the

nine justices that any and no matter what you do it will be your lifelong battle for feminism. that it has defined your life is will put you and that what we will most appreciate about your life. not a decision you have contributed to but a lifelong commitment. >> i hope so. thank of the tremendous fortune i had. alive and a lawyer in the 70's when it became possible. up until 1970 it was hopeless to and the turning point of gender discrimination case we knew it would be the turning point case. we put on the brief the name of two women.

these were the women who would say the same things we would say at a time when society was not repaired to listen. was to putmissions women on was to put women on juries in every state. young people today -- >> were not serving on juries? >> they were not serving. she was way ahead of her time. both with respect to racist immigration and gender discrimination >> what you think of a woman as president westmark >> we came pretty close. >> you think sexism played a role in the campaign. >> do i think so? >> i have no doubt.

[applause] decisive wasit was had she been a manner which he had one that election? quick service so many things that may have been decided. not one of the major factors. find hopeful is remembering back to my earliest years on the court when the women in the senate and the women at the court in those days it was sandra day o'connor and me. every year we would have dinner together. the women in the senate would hold a dinner one year and women in the court the next year. there were six women in the senate. now we have seen that number grow, not nearly enough. it is quite the dinner. more women that are out

there doing things -- the more people see that women are not all alike. we come in all different shapes. placesbe in two that they were not there before is a hopeful sign. meet what you worry about when you think about our country today. stay ine that we will tune with our most basic values. >> you are that we are not? >> the united states has always between eight field

for liberty and for security. other countries have faith that there waster than did justiceise former chief of the supreme court of israel give our enemyld no greater gift than if we allow our concern for security to so --rwhelm us that we become we become to resemble our enemy. >> to become a close society. uswe surrender what makes proud and what makes us free. >> we build walls, we tried to keep people out.

something you would see. think about two when people of japanese ancestry were taken from their homes and put into detention camps. for no reason other than fear. back very early in the history of our country. the alien and sedition act. i think it was the adams administration. now areasking you right you generally worried in the interest of security that we maybe trampling on individual liberties? >> am i worried? yes. by theso encouraged number of people especially young people who do not want this to happen.

themselvespressing in our position. earlier in our conversation about the 50's reminding of our most basic values of freedom and if we reallyer that than we are indistinguishable. >> you sit there on the supreme court and with the constitution our values are the same for this country. >> you have this on ballot for america, there is a line and it that the right to speak my mind is america. diversity of our country. this is brought home to me in

off ins when i was sweden for four months. my first subway ride when i came back to new york. i looked at the people in the car and they were from every race and every region of the able somehow we have been yet one in our attachment to freedom and win i grew up i remembered that. is a country that all of us at support have a origin someplace else you so

cometh there is not any other country that has that. where people came in seeking well-being --mic >> freedom from economic or secure should. >> that is what the land of liberty is. it is a land that welcomes people. who were living under the conditions of oppression. >> you are going to have to consider -- where the travel ban is right now. backey have sent it because they have changed the travel ban and added new areas. andhat we did, the travel that we have had had expired it is no longer the law. issued to have both

sides file reads on the questions whether this case is now dead there is a new travel dan different from the one that was before it did we have taken and we arecalendar loving the parties l us what they think of about if the case is still alive or if that is over. that ban is no longer in effect. quickly do not know yet? >> it will go back to the court. >> he will get the parties you on whether the case will happen based on those emissions we will reach a decision. ♪ what did we do before phones?

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>> one of the interesting things , if you have not been to washington and to be able to go to the supreme court and look at the chiefstatue of justice and the great hall. you can go and you can watch the justices and attorneys argue a case. there are a lot of impressions on the court. you have said to me before there are a lot of things the court

agrees on. the number of things where they had these constitutional debates on is only one small part. do where onot to justices agreed. >> only half of the decisions were unanimous. under 10 when we were divided 5-3. that is when we only had a justices. is usually a disagreement runs about 20% in a typical term. >> how did that core change when sandra day o'connor left? >> it was a enormous change. >> explained about that. >> in the simplest way to put it

when she left every decision that came out as that term where term where i was one of four if she had remained i would have been one of five. her retirement was a major change. swingause she was a justice? >> you was and she was comfortable and that position. some people are indecisive. she was not. are you. >> when we divide 5-4. >> against you huge power doesn't it? exit is a awesome responsibility. atyou made a surprise speech

a jewish new year service. forng the services washington. you said you believe being --ish help you emphasize empathize which is a great being jewish how you empathize with other minority groups. explain. outsiderf you are a cordonedoup that was ghettos or was in constant fear about what they may do. mes was brought home to product being a child during world war ii. if you come from a history of

oppression and minority status then you will be empathetic to others. who are outsiders. >> you are now the longest serving member of the court. >> yes. [applause] people have been asking me now for some time because for my next birthday i will be 85. >> all right. [applause] may we say a healthy 85. [applause] i guess when i turned 70 when are you going to step down? brandies wase appointed when he was the same age as i was.

was on the court for 23 years. i expect to stay as long as him. now i am about two years past that. now my answer is i will remain in this job as long as i can do it full steam. >> we hope for a long time. [applause] you are 84, 85. another justice is 79 years old. donald trump may have the chance, may -- you just keep up

that exercise. [laughter] also usingbreyer is my workout. >> the future of the country is in his hands. you go out and buy that book. as long as you feel if you are doing this job that president clinton asked you to do and he appointed you you will be right there on that supreme court. >> like justice john paul stevens to step down when he was 90. >> you have five years at least. that will take you through another presidential election. [applause] swift and getting out since he step down. he has published two books and is well on his way to completing

his third. >> i am with you. retirement is a awful word. justice souter who has left the court and is still a life has said the first year is like walking into a tidal wave you -- did you feel like that? of notd the advantage being in a federal court but the courthouse. >> it was the breeding ground for a supreme court justice. and i werescalia from that area. >> all throughout history it has been a important place. >> it is the one court of appeals that has a nationwide drop it after the civil war

lincoln disbanded what was the districtt of appeals of columbia circuit. they were allt confederate sympathizers. the court ofhould appeals and the nations capital have a bunch of southerners? it should be drawn from across the country. the d.c. circuit is the one circuit where a nominee can come from any place. the other circuits, the regional circuits, from that area. >> do you take great pride and the decisions on gay marriage and equality? >> do i take great pride? it is the court doing the job

that the constitution decided. [applause] i am asking?hat this is something you believed in. the issues presented by the case spoke to your own philosophy of the individual. >> the case would never have every day people did not begin to care. i think change came about because gay people who were once in the closet afraid to say who they were came out of the closet and said this is who i am and i am proud of it. around and who was it? they were our neighbors, our was not this it

relay that has played racial discrimination where people live in a area that is segregated. that did not exist. once people were willing to say this is who i am and i am proud of that. if that had not happened we never would have seen this. since the court is never the vanguard of change he will have to change. aptitudes -- editors have to change. rehnquist justice made a woman his assistant when they were open about it she became part of court functions. that was a signal. things were really changing. attitudes were changing and the country. to --n you look forward

what brings you great satisfaction be on the law? beyond sitting on the court and beyond sitting on with family. you have made the statement was in once but you have had the great pleasure of being married to a man and being of a conviction yourself that you could have a great job and have a great family. have great children. you did not have to make the sacrifice for any of those things. >> i am very sad when i hear people say to climb to the top of the tree as a legal professional you have to relinquish home and family life. with sandra day o'connor she had three sons. i have two children.

it should not be any -- it should not be any less possible for a woman that a man. takes a sympathetic partner. thinkss a partner who what you do is as important as what he does. he was extraordinary in that way. he had complete confidence in himself that he thought if i want to spend my life with her she has to be pretty terrific. [laughter] >> it was a pretty good tackler to wasn't it? >> the best in america. [laughter] [applause] he is the supreme chef. he has the best selling book in the supreme court get shot. --n he died

>> is the supreme chef what it is called? >> yesterday and it is a collection of recipes. he was very popular with the supreme court. they met quarterly for lunch. they rotated catering responsibilities. he was always the number one pick to be the caterer. >> it just goes on and on. [laughter] i have been to her office. when you are given a honorary degree at columbia was a columbia? on his knees?ying was that a columbia? tell the story. list out of

harvard. gave yous the one they because you had refused to be given a degree from the law school and insisted it had to be the entire university. the university capitulated and give you a honorary degree and among that the old there. >> she was supposed to give me the degree i should have gotten. one i spent two years at harvard four. >> they arrange us in alphabetical order. i had no idea that he was going to get up that he was going to get up and serenade me. and there is this wonderful picture.

that a woman and ecstasy. to be so close to that magnificent -- ginsburg: an [laughter] it was like the electric current. >> and electric current that rafter your body. oh my goodness? he probably felt the same thing i assume. that is what we call magic. >> it was a magical moment. said to your husband i betray no secret and reporting this. i have no secret without him i

would not have gained a seat on the supreme court. you said that. >> yes. to live thatable life. he was remarkable. in the 1950's i went to cornell university at a 4-1 ratio. it was a favorite school for parents of daughters because you could not find your man at cornell you are hopeless. [laughter] >> we are just getting warmed up. >> i have never met a boy who cared that i had a brain. that is not what they were interested in.

loved -- >> at first sight? >> not exactly. [laughter] it is a gift to have a long and great marriage. >> 56 years. >> he died in 2010? yes, he really cheated death because he had cancer when he was a young man during loss goal. >> after having done this so long with great pride of having come here to this auditorium it is with great pride that i come here this evening as we celebrate one of our own. a new yorker who has made us all proud. these run me and thinking --tice ruth gator josh

justice ruth bader ginsburg. [applause] ♪ what did we do before phones?

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yvyvonne: summon :00 a.m. here n hong kong. we are live from bloomberg's asian headquarters. i am yvonne man. welcome to "daybreak asia." stocks are an excerpt on the final day of a strong quarter. the msci asian-pacific index down for the six day in a row. oil also on the retreat, after bouncing into bull market territory earlier. betty: from bloomberg's global headquarters i am betty liu in new york, where it is just after 7:00 p.m. thursday. governorof england hits back at brexit critics. mark carney says he will co t