♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: we begin this evening with a continued search for answers in las vegas. here is the cbs evening news. >> investigations are no closer to understanding what allowed stephen paddock to create some of the carnage. he placed cameras outside his room and investigators believed he may have had an accomplice. >> stephen paddock is a man who spent decades acquiring weapons and ammo and living a secret life, much of which will never be fully understood.

>> everybody go. [gunfire] >> this new video obtained by the review journal shows the harrowing journey -- moments of the attack. police pinpointed a more exact timeline. at 10:05, he fired the first shots from the mandalay bay. then he fired once than 200 rounds through the door of his room, wounding a security guard in the leg. that, he fired no more bullets into the music festival. he may have had more in mind.

>> he suggest after he saw the security guard -- was there any evidence he plan to survive as an escape? >> yes. i can't tell you. >> at 11:20, please shoot and explosives to get through his store. some of his shots also hit the aviation fuel tanks on the edge of the airports. investigators are trying to determine whether those are stray bullets or he intended the tanks. absolutely he bogeyman. the bogeyman. >> this guy used tremendous tactics. who helped him train him to use those weapons as he did? ♪ charlie: puerto rico continues to reel in the aftermath of hurricane maria. half the population does not have access to drinking water. the power grid remains down. cbs news correspondent david has been reporting from the hardest hit areas of the island. here is a look at some of his reporting.

puerto ricoents of waded through the mess hurricane maria left behind. flooding is widespread and electricity as nonexistent. police and volunteers are working to rescue people trapped by maria's storm surge. they helped this man and his stock yet to dry land. >> they are talking to people and asking them what the situation is in their home. >> across the islands, streets that don't look like rivers are covered in power lines. 155-mile-per-hour already-weak an power grid. ittting puert rico,

dominica. the dominican republic so winds and rain when the storm passed the island today as a category three. brea is moving toward turks and caicos. president trump from that approved a disaster federation for puerto rico. with so many communities cut off, the full extent of the damage is not yet known. charlie: i am pleased to have david at this table. welcome. you have covered a lot of stories, where do you put this one? is withou know what this one? it got worse after that report. it has gotten worse. i have never covered a national disaster where the emergency was endless. fifteen days out and it is still

an emergency. charlie: is that because of the severity because puerto rico was not prepared for this kind of thing? or because the rescue effort has been little and slow? david: everything the government said we got we need from the federal government. mored to the mayor, what to move?ed extrad, i need helicopters and buses. they didn't have the bus cars because they couldn't get there, their homes were badly damaged that they had to stay behind with her family. they could not move the supplies. they were paralyzed by this hurricane. do you know how long some places could be without power? up to a year. charlie: i think i said this with you on the air. there is a woman in my apartment -- there is a man in my apartment who was just able to talk to his mother today. he couldn't reach her.

there must be thousands like that. david: i know people who got a plane and drove to the house because that's the only way they could check on their mother and father. puerto rico filed for bankruptcy this year. the power grid, they will have to replace it. if anything, the governor says this could be what puerto rico needed. they couldn't get the money before the storm so now they will have to happen. there are still places with no running water. people were drinking water for -- from a stream and bathing in it. 15 days.ks are taking why is that?

are the well, you reporter. david: we asked the governor we never got a straight answer. i said why do you keep asking for help. you said you were able to get through to every municipality. he said we think the food will go to a distribution area in the middle of town but people do not know it is there and we cannot reach them because there is no phone communication. he said we will use megaphones and i will encourage the mayors to go around on a megaphone telling people where to go. if we cannot turn around and do it you will use a helicopter with an intercom is sent to do -- system to do it. charlie: president trump came and it was not what they had expected. this is a report on his visit to puerto rico earlier this week. here it is. pres. trump: there is a lot of love in this room. david: they were greeted by a friendly audience and one of the fastest areas to recover from the hurricane. the president handing out supplies, tossing paper towels into the crowd.

pres. trump: we are going to help you out. have a good time. it is great to see you. david: the president and the first lady got a look at the destruction by helicopter. they did not visit the harder-hit areas of the island where there is no running water or power, forcing people to drink and bathe with stream water. he seemed to downplay the devastation of maria compared to that of hurricane katrina. pres. trump: if you look at a real catastrophe like katrina and you look at the tremendous hundreds of people that died, you can be very proud of all of your people, all of our people working together. david: mr. trump appeared to criticize the u.s. territory for their more than $70 billion debt. pres. trump: i hate to tell you but you will have thrown our budget out of whack because we spent a lot of money on puerto

rico. david: later, he seemed to suggest the debts may be forgiven. pres. trump: they a lot of money -- owe a lot of money to our friends on wall street and we will have to wait that out. david: not long after the president-elect, the governor on the island said that the decibel -- -death toll has risen. the other causes range from anxiety, heart attack, suicide, and lack of oxygen. when then ran out power ran out. cbs news, san juan, puerto rico. charlie: you have become so identified with the story. a friend of mine said david is so into this story. if he ever comes to new york i

love to meet him. you have become an internet sensation as well. what does this do in terms of the way people look at you down there? do they think you, mr. reporter, must have answers for us? david: i think it was the only place they were getting answers. it started with this. i will never forget going to the airport and they were 900 to 1000 people laid out. no power, no ac, it was dark, no one had food and water. there were kids were stripped naked by their parents sleeping in their own sweat while their mothers and fathers fanned them with cardboard. i asked if they saw it and they said they saw my report and sent supplies there. i told them it was still happening.

i get a lot of questions as to how our journalists should go and how far in the story you should be. i did not hand out food and water when i was relentless in pursuing answers to question the people deserved. i did not go there with an agenda. i had never been to puerto rico. i hardly know any puerto rican people. but those are some of the most patient people in the face of a natural disaster. charlie: back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ "mindhunter" is a new

netflix series. the series is set in the late 1970's and depicts the emerging behavioral science unit within the fbi. jonathan groff plays an fbi agent who travels the country. here's a look at the trailer. [video clip] >> it is not easy butchering people. physically and mentally i don't think people realize. there are a lot more like me. >> do you think so? >> 40 years ago, your fbi is down johnnting dillinger. now, we have extreme violence between strangers. >> we teach fbi techniques to cops. >> do you mind if i bother you for a minute? >> she was found cuffed and attached to the bed. >> we should be using every resource we can.

>> are criminals born or are they formed? >> psychopaths think there was nothing wrong with them so they are virtually impossible to study. yet you have found a way in near--perfect laboratory conditions. >> hello, ladies. >> that is what this makes it so exciting. >> it is not our job to commiserate with these people. >> they cannot like everything we do. talking to serial killers. >> it will bite you in the ass. >> you are developing a pattern of behavior here. i can't help you. >> you have to get in the dirt with the pigs. >> how do we get ahead of crazy if we do not know how crazy

thinks? [end video clip] charlie: joining me are the executive producer and two stars. we're witnessing an extraordinary thing happening, a horrific thing happening. the questions they are asking are the questions your guys -- your characters based on real-life people -- are asking. what makes people do this? if anybody has an interesting -- anybody has an interest in true crime, it is always that. a thing you cannot quite

touch or get at. charlie: is the insanity or not? >> there is always a huge thing against the insanity plea with someone argues so carefully not to get caught. charlie: there's a difference between right and wrong. >> exactly. always, if someone has gone through the motions and fantasize for long enough, they have worked out all the little problems. is there an insanity defense there? probably not. what yourased on what woulders play, you think of the guy in las vegas? would you bes asking. you cannot talk to him. he shot himself.

>> nobody lives to be in their 60's and suddenly wakes up one day and decide to commit mass murder without any kind of warning signs. without any previous criminal behavior of any kind. i would be trying to figure out what were the things that led him to that point. charlie: which brings me to this subject. what was the approach -- i do not want to say empathy -- but what is the approach that make you say what is this guy doing where is he coming from? a young agent believes there is a better way to figure this out. jonathan: i think on the show we are trying to see if we can fake empathy in order to understand the impossible to understand i think along the way we glean information and the show takes place in the late 70's when all of this information and the idea of doing this was very new and they acquire systems of labeling and compartmentalizing the different kinds of killers. and i think ultimately, part of the reason people are so fascinated with serial killers endlessly is because you can ask as many questions as you want to and i don't know we will ever get an answer. charlie: nor do you know if they even know.

>> right. charlie: you, sir? apologizing in advance. you?is it about [laughter] >> nobody sent me the remake of breakfast at tiffany's. charlie: they didn't want you to do that over? >> i don't know. i can only fall back on my -- i cannot apologize enough. charlie: we can fall back on things you have done before and say something there -- and say there is something within you and ask, where does aberration come from. >> when we were doing the rounds at quantico in trying to indoctrinate ourselves and look at what they had to offer, you

round the corner under the library and there is a life-size fiberglass rendering hannibal lecter. obviously, john doe from seven, those movies came out around the same time and they were both sort of in the mold of serial killer is why the coyote super genius. as i was talking to the woman who was giving us a tour, she was asking if this show would be like silence of the lambs. and i said, no, i want to take that back and not talk about the exper -- expert who -- you know, to me these are very sad. grown up under awful circumstances.

this is not to overstate how much empathy or sympathy we should have for them. it is simply a fact. we have seen so much in this literary conceit and there is a fine line that separates the hunters from the hunted. i really thought it was time to take that back and make it the reason we are fascinated with them is because we are nothing like them. they are unfathomable. we literally cannot see -- charlie: having looked at a number of them, do they share any common -- david: of course. there is a lots of commonality. the show is a series of conversations. charlie: somebody bought a book and is based on a book written by former fbi -- david: exactly. the king of the profilers from the fbi. charlie: tell me about the dynamic of the two characters. that is part of the dynamic. david: there are the guys were the characters are based on. one is not with us any longer and the other was a creative

consultant on our show. once we got into trying to divide the mythology with who was the first person to say x, it got extremely complicated. joe penn hall, the creator and the head writer of the show, he decided i need to be able to divide this legwork as i needed in order to be able to dramatize it. because we will never be able to review he was the one who said i will call this guy this and this other guy this. then i am going to make a crazy quilt of whatever sort of behavioral impetus i need. charlie: when he comes talking about these ideas, your character is what? you look at it with skepticism or kind of convincing? experience,my you've got to convince me.

holt: when we meet the character i play, he is in a failing marriage and has an adopted son and that has created a lot of problems in his marriage. he is not someone interested in the bureaucracy at quantico or the politics and the brown nosing that he would need to do in order to get a promotion. he teaches road school. he travels around the country and he teaches the latest fbi investigative techniques to local cops. in a sense, he is running away. i think of him as kind of floundering. he has forgotten why it was important that he be an fbi agent. what happens when holden, jonathan's character comes into my life, is his youth and intelligence revitalize the innocence and make me remember what it was that i loved. charlie: what is it that you

have other than youth and enthusiasm? [laughter] charlie: is it a new idea? what has made you different? jonathan: one of the things that is interesting about the show is when you meet holden in the first episode, he is a little lost. the very first scene in the show he is in a hostage negotiation situation and a guy shoots himself in the face and he goes to the fbi and he says i did everything by the book and somebody died and i am really confused and perhaps we are going about this in the wrong way. i think it is symbolic. hoover was running the bad up intounning the fbi there wasnd

a sort of black and white vision of what crime was. go get the bad guys and we succeeded. the error of the 70's was coming into the fbi to little bit and holding meet this girl who is getting -- and holden meets this girl who is getting her phd and studying sociology and he gets his mind blown. he gets a sense of meaning on how to work in the fbi. he gets stuck with this guy teaching behavioral science out of school all over the country. through a strange set of circumstances he finds himself sitting across the room from ed kemper, who we now know is a serial killer. charlie: here is the scene. clip] >> is more of a research thing. >> research? >> a series of interviews. chatting with individuals, like yourself. >> we're just talking. i don't get to go someplace, do a bunch of tests? holden: no tests. just right here. >> why? holden: i believe it could be useful. >> talking about what? holden: i don't know.

your behavior i guess. if you want to, that is. i mean, we do not have to talk about anything at all if you do not want to. >> why are you so tense? hmmm? you are tense. right now. holden: no, i am not tense. [laughter] charlie: hold that thought. take a look at this. this is holt's character talking to jonathan about the same inquiry. here it is. [video clip] >> he's telling you what he guessed you want to hear. >> why would you want to hear that?

>> because you are you. you told him about your university education, girlfriend, and character and he tailored it. you feel the need to tell him about your girlfriend? >> to get him talking. >> don't encourage him. do not give him anything. he is your subject. the objective. >> i have to trust my instinct on this. >> there is that word again. suddenly you have all of these instincts. >> it has been a process. >> i need you to understand that whatever you think, there is a distinct possibility that he is manipulating you. ♪ video clip] charlie: ok, so let us talk about this scene. how many takes? holt: we did two or three. charlie: how many did you do?

jonathan: that scene was a perfect example of an kemper because we did it over multiple days. there is a lot of comedy built into that or a potential for a lot of comedy built into this wide-eyed, innocent agent across the table from this giant who is so dangerous. we're were doing it over and over again and that line where i -- where he says "why are you so tense" and i am not tense. david says, what if you do nothing. this is like the middle of the second day.

to me it changed the whole energy of that moment. moreeated something realistic. thing iaway the actor was trying to do. that is one of the millions of reasons why he is david but that is one of them. holt: i was in david's first movie alien ii and i also have a role -- alient iii and i all -- alien iii and i also have a role in fight club. charlie: you said he felt like you graduated in a way. holt: that is absolutely correct. i said this before in interviews. for me to have a privilege of having to play a character -- one of the wonderful things about television is you get to explore a character in much greater detail than you would in a two-hour movie or three-our play. you have more real estate and can find yourself in many different circumstances. david: that is a really

important thing because we had cast jonathan and it was incredibly important to me that i don't have the wet blanket, that i don't have the guy who is just going -- i am not interested in this. or i'm done. know, i needed to have an actor who could be jonathan 20 years later, who could be the guy -- it has taken it out of him. he's hitting his head against a wall. do that, weto enormous actor who has sensitivity. holt as many times

as i have, i kept wishing i had a part for him that had more. that had string theory attached to other ideas. to be able to offer some any somebody something where you can say we can be doing this five years from now, are you ready to dig? charlie: did you see this as a television series rather than a film? david: yes. you can ask a lot of an audience, but two hours and 45 minutes with no closure. get a babysitter, find parking, wait in line, since and have people with their phones in your peripheral vision, and concentrate for two hours and 45 minutes is asking a lot. i also think this is conversations. charlie: we love conversations, don't we? david: of course. i am eternally -- it is very difficult when you are an executive producer. you have to find other directors because you cannot direct the whole thing. 10 hours is too much.

there's too many -- so, in finding the other directors that we found, there are certain people where you give them an 11 page scene that takes place at a table not unlike this and say there is this movement and the first two pages and night event and then it moves over, they say, well can someone crash something? can someone jump through a window? it is terrifying. the guys we found some from documentaries and another one was a writer who had worked on a show i made a film about a hijacking that some of the most riveting scenes in it that were just people talking into a speakerphone. charlie: when i created this program, i said our conceit is we believed that people of -- love conversation and that

they will want to see it if it is real, engaging, passionate. and you don't need a fancy set, you don't need anything. you just need two people or more that are engaged by ideas. david: there are acts and movements and the way that people move their agenda and try to understand and look for clarification. that stuff can be as interesting as people running through the streets showing their badges. charlie: did you want him because he was so great in king george, iii? is that why you wanted him? david: i haven't seen that. i met jonathan when we were casting the social network. he came in and he was amazing and riveting. the one thing

jonathan doesn't have access to that i have to have if he has to have a little reality --a little and you cannot even fake it. charlie: great to see you again. congratulations. ♪

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delivers consistent network performance and speed across all your locations. fast connections everywhere. that's how you outmaneuver. ♪ charlie: we are living in the midst of a podcast boom with the rise of mobile. more people are consuming content in transit. podcasts benefit from the power of audio, the most intimate form of media.

"vanity fair"of "when guestses, are compelling and the conversation covers a complete drum kits, the hands of a clock disappear and i feel like i have enjoyed a secondhand human experience." our guests today -- alex bloomberg is the cofounder and ceo of gimlet media. polishing minutes vice president of on-demand content. creator and cohost of radio lab and more perfect. i am pleased to have them all. let me begin with this. explain to me the rise of podcasts. how did this thing come into being and rise into such popularity so fast? was it filling a need or creating a need?

>> i don't know. i hope so. maybe more the first than the second. i am a public radio refugee and i still live in the world of public radio. for me, it feels like we're making a show for 10 years and suddenly the podcast app, you could carry on the phone, and it blew up. it was baked into smartphones and i think that really launched things. now we have companies that are making it feels like the world is expanding. charlie: everybody i know was thinking about it. >> it is a very easy barrier for entry, so it feels very accessible for people in the same way that blogging was 10 years ago. it is a way for people to get right at you, right in your ear, nothing between the two of you. it is what they say. it is very intimate, and it is a very close touch point. people a platform

withcan't necessarily have a book or tv show. i think that has contributed a bit. charlie: what do the most successful ones have? >> they have intimacy and people you want to hang out with. people you want in your ear or your head. there is no closer you can be to someone. i have been in podcasting since 2005, shortly after it started. we found when you put together a group of people the audience feels connected with, then they feel like they are sitting at a table with them. they were having dinner, going out for drinks, listening to their friends talk about something. they responded in that way as though they joined the club or went to a dinner party. charlie: it makes me think i've been doing a podcast always 25 years. [laughter] television is not a program, it's a podcast.

>> i think there are a couple reasons people listen. one is the companionship where they are your friends. also, people like to be told a story. a lot of the best podcasts are the ones where you can sit down and it feels like a transformation. i think a big thing is people learn things. a lot of the best ones combine all three. they like you guys, they hang out with you, they're learning stuff, and being told a story. when you can do all three, you're doing something really special. >> i make a show called radio lab and a spinoff called more perfect. it is as alex said. alex started on this american life a million years ago and for me that was the model. i am sorry that i did not -- i am sorry. i did not mean to dig at you there. [laughter] years.odcast

the idea is to tell these really gripping, personal stories that we do to some moments of wonder or where you can think about the world differently and you are changed. every story to have that kind of transformation moments and that is what we try to do. radio lab does it about all kinds of things. "more perfect" deals with the supreme court. what is the conflict and what is this country where these arguments come in front of a court speaks to who we are right now? charlie: has this been an opportunity for women? >> speaking as the woman, i can say yes. absolutely. [laughter] incredible.been there was research that couple years ago about how few women there were hosting podcast on the top itunes tarts. i think it was 20% in 2013. it has been dominated by men like many things. the number has gone up slightly to about 33%. at wnyc, it is a big part of our goal, our mission to get women's voices out there. i think podcasting can be an agent for change. in that sense, it feels like a feminist medium. i think it is because it is a

platform to people you had jessica williams on your show recently. her podcast is something we developed and that is our show. it is a platform for women, women of color, people who would otherwise not get the millions and millions of people listening to them that they wouldn't without the podcast. we get people writing in all the time. for one thing, they get people saying they want to join wnyc. people also say i have never heard myself represented before. i am hearing my stories in a way i never have before. it is very powerful, and we have a women's podcasting festival coming up in a couple weeks and we get women from all over the world to come in learn from each other and develop skills and be mentored.

charlie: is it becoming remunerative? >> it is. yes. paula: you can make billions. join us. [laughter] >> i will if you are making billions. [laughter] >> part of our company is to sell ads, and podcasts at the -- podcast ads are the highest cpm, that means cost per thousand listeners. sometimes there are two times or three times higher than super bowl ad rates. the audience is much smaller than the super bowl, but the numbers themselves per listener are higher. charlie: the payment per listener are higher than the super bowl? yes, they are.

>> it is because the advertising is very intimate. often the hosts are the want to -- the ones talking about and want to talk about the products. charlie: it gives credibility to the product. >> and a lot of podcasts, there is a clear line when it isn't bad, but a lot of times the hosts are delivering the ad. we will also take a story-based approach to the ad. it is the way it humanizing brands. they're very effective. charlie: what changes are underway now that it has growth and traction with the american public? how is it changing and evolving? offering more voices? >> i think we're at the beginning of the next golden age of audio. if you think about audio in the old days before television, people sat around their radios. if you think about how much talent came out of the radio. you have orson welles, lucille ball, everybody.

kind ofaround and radio froze in place. now with on-demand, you have this flourish that is happening. you talked about fiction. i think fiction will be huge. i think you guys launched some fiction shows. we watched a show called homecoming that has done very well. paula: a lot of people multitask, too, so that is another reason why it is great. walking --rking out, gardeninghe dishes, -- >> you don't need your eyes. that is the great advantages of audio. you can do other things and see other things. >> it is one of the things you can do with your phone while it is still in your pocket. charlie: does it take an audience away from other mediums? >> i do not know. i do not have the data to back this up, but i feel like radio lab is a show in a podcast. i think we're mostly a podcast, and i think they are mostly different products. charlie: so you think they can coexist? >> i think so. we live to lives very literally. what is on the radio and a

podcast is very different. paula: we see a lot of sunday night listening and that is a very big tv nights. i still think we are competing with tv. we are competing for people. time.ople's free period. >> i think of this thing as existing in a pretty separate sphere. there is the listening time when you are working out or on the subway, and there is a time where you can look at a screen. which are mostly -- i don't know. its ownpodcasting is

separate enclave. paula: i think when people get gripped by a podcast, it could take over and replace some of the other things they were doing. certainly reading. certainly reading. book publishers, i don't know. beware. i feel you are saying. you will not be watching television while you are commuting, but you do make decisions about how to spend your leisure time. charlie: is there a ranking? podcasts.e top 5 >> i think that is being disputed. [laughter] >> everyone seems to be measuring it differently. for a while, we would check the itunes rank and then that did not make any sense anymore because you cannot quite tell why number one is number one. >> it is not stand volume. >> there is an algorithm. >> i do not know who is the most -- certainly, i put this american life. >> and their spinoff serial and s-town are all three very large. >> radio lab and then npr is

probably, in terms of sheer reach, they probably have the most. >> we have a show on revisionist history which is also pretty big. there are essentially two kinds of broadcasts. time-shifted and original podcasting. you do one of each. i think when people are getting used to having things on demand, like they have a dvr, and they want to get off of the network schedule and watch it on their own time should i think when podcasts get more popular, people will get used to timeshifting and that could spell some trouble for radio. i'm sorry to say. it might be a generational thing. it is too fun to figure on schedule.

>> with the state of national politics what it is, you kind of cannot compete with what is happening in the day's events. i still obsessively turn on the news, because who knows what crazy thing will be on the news that day? charlie: on television or radio? feels currency of radio faster.e transactional, >> people who have tv shows like you and everybody knows them, podcasting is this medium in which they could really play in a way that they cannot and -- cannot in other, more traditional media. charlie: play meaning fun? paula: flex different creative muscles, talk to the people they are interested in, maybe they are actors and want to start having conversations with people and a lot of people who know them to hear them in a different way and the people who do not know them to kind of get to know them. it is part of the appeal of why you are seeing people do this.

charlie: this is a clip from the giant pool of money from this american life. audio only, boys and girls. audio]t >> round figures. >> you basically borrowed $540,000 from the bank and they did not check your income? >> no income verification loan. they did not call me up and say how much money. they do not do that. it is almost like you have a guy in the street and say lends me -- lend me $540,000. what do you do. got a gob.'s ok i've it seems like it if i casually and though there are a lot of

papers that get filled out and flies all over with faxes and emails. essentially, that is the process. ♪ >> would you have loaned you the money? >> i would not have loaned me the money, and no one i know would have loaned me the money. i mean, i know people who are criminals who would not know me that money, and they would break your kneecaps. i am serious. -- a person with bad credit. ♪ alex: i remember everything about exactly where i was when i had that interview. we were at a foreclosure where people were trying to figure out what was happening with their houses in the financial crisis. quick backstory, that was a big hour-long episode of this american life. adam davidson, a reporter for npr, and i, we teamed up to do this big hour-long on mortgage finance. we were trying to explain what was going on with the financial crisis. we had no idea how to do it and nothing like that had ever been

life."t "this american inspiration, we looked at lab,"ow called "radio launched by jad and robert. they have this two cohosts set up where it was really effective, because they were talking about science, these really complicated things. one person would be like what are you saying? and the other person would be like, i am saying this, and we ripped it off and made a ton of money." pool of this came out when the world was melting. what was going on.

charlie: this was 2008. >> it gave me that moment about incredible storytelling where you also learn and it takes your perspective and shakes your perspective. it was one of those moments where just for a moment it was like, "oh, that is why we are here." we since of the analyzed that moment in our culture but that was very early on. paula: i was an editor at the wall street journal. i was editing pieces -- my entire life was about the economic meltdown. i heard that. charlie: here is the other thing, it is like movies. the music accentuates the experience. [laughter] paula: that was really good. i didn't even know we were coming back in. andy: i feeling podcasting is where the films were in the 1910's. everyone is learning from each other and saying this is so great i will try it. and then you might be copying me, and everyone is learning

from each other. paula: we have an lgbtq show and we call it this american life only gayer. [laughter] >> but it is completely original, so. charlie: finally, there is this. what will change podcast over the next 10 years? it will obviously have a growth trajectory, but will it be technology, will it be what? human creativity will change it? what? >> we are in great need of better technology. it is not as easy as sitting in your car and turning on the radio. that would be my ideal. you get in your car and turn on your podcast with one button. it also still hard to find new podcasts that you like. this is called the discovery problem, and we all have thought about ways -- charlie: why is that? do you have search engines?

andy: you can go to itunes, apple podcasts, but there are 400,000 podcasts in itunes. there's a chart of most popular which is a good place to start. charlie: you can go to genre i guess. andy: it is not enough. paula: research shows the most popular way is from a friend and that has to change. >> sometimes, they say, "great. how do i listen?" you have to get a podcast player and download the thing. it is not so simple. if you can just be like, i will would be the, that best. charlie: going backwards, maybe taking something like this, a designated device like a kindle?

devicesthe original ipod.amed after the horrible name. podcast. >> one of the things we need to do is change that. charlie: do you have an idea? >> i don't. i do not know. i do think about that. radio, as a term, means something else to one generation, but i think to the young people who consume podcasts, maybe they call it the radio i hope? charlie: do you think if they consume a podcast they will say i am listening to the radio of? >> we can say we are making radio. that is what most people say. charlie: the reason being because they are both from the year? >> yes and podcast is a clunky word. charlie: whatever we call it. it seems to have a great future. >> thank you. charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." massar.l julia and i'm chatterley. we are inside magazine headquarters in new york. coming up, the mississippi lawyer taking on the opioid industry. julia: what would happen of catalonia seceded from spain? carol: and mechanics driving lamborghini into the future. all of that ahead on "bloomberg businessweek."