♪ >> from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: katy tour is here, a correspondent for abc news and an anchor for msnbc. she spent more than 500 days on the presidential campaign trail. she covered the candidacy of donald trump. along the way, the future president often singled her out for criticism. her new memoir documents that experience. i am pleased to have her back at this table. welcome. it is great to have you here. you have not seen the president since the election? katy: not in person since the

election -- or the inauguration, i should say. charlie: tell me what people are saying about you today? katy: there are questions about what exactly is going on inside the white house. what does the president to every day -- do every day? is he fully invested as the day-to-day operations of governing as he needs to be? why is he getting so distracted by cable news still? also, has he lost a step? dave sherman wrote a report in vanity fair about this and essentially said what i have been hearing from my sources within the trump orbit. there seems to be something different about him today then during the campaign. 1% read the book and -- one

person read the book and asked do you think something has changed? charlie: summary asked you that -- somebody asked you that? because you new him during the campaign. do you think he lost something? katy: i think he has always been a combative person. during the campaign, he reveled in going to these rallies and hearing the roar of the crowd. that would combat some of what he felt to the negativity coming from the media. now, he does not have those rallies to feed off of any longer. now, within his mind and the white house, it feels like a daily onslaught of negative headlines.

the issue is many of them are of his own making because he responds and only furthers and deepens any given controversy. katy: you saw the power of those rallies, and you are one of the reporters who thought he would win and it was because what you saw at those rallies. you saw what people would do to see donald trump. katy: they really connected with him. they really thought he was someone who would fight for them as opposed to all the politicians in washington who seemed to say one thing on the campaign trail and do another after they were elected. donald trump was willing to a anything. he wasn't -- donald trump was willing to say anything. he wasn't trying to win votes with empty promises. not even that, they do not hold him accountable for what he said he would do. if he went to washington and

decided to reverse course on any number of issues, i would argue many of his supporters would stay with him because ultimately, what they wanted more was the man and not the policies. one quick anecdote. he does not have many policies beyond we will build a wall and have extreme vetting or the muslim ban or we will lower tax rates. charlie: you have the iran deal. katy: yeah. i was speaking to one man outside a rally in ohio and asked why he liked donald trump. the man said he will build a law. i said what if he doesn't. his response was, it is ok, i trust his judgment. charlie: didn't he say i could shoot somebody on 5th avenue -- katy: and i still have my supporters. that is how they felt about him. they were rabidly enthusiastic about donald trump. some would show it was not just the folks who went to the rally and the like they were unleashed in this space and can unleash their demons and can yell as loud as they could. they were free to be as crude as donald was being from the stage.

it was people outside of the rallies, as well. abel who would not necessarily advertise they were supporters. wouldn't go around with a make america great again hacks. -- hat. any of them we would talk to admit that they really like him and i don't think it is an easy thing to admit to my friends or neighbors. the polling, i would argue, wasn't as accurate as it normally would have been because people were going to say one thing and then they got into the voting booth all alone in that booth, and my producer and i imagine that a lot of folks would pull the lever for trump. charlie: one thing happening to you was being a foreign correspondent and coming back to new york and all of a sudden how would you like to follow donald trump? katy: i have moved to london, it is a big world and that is a dream job.

you get to travel everywhere. dream job. dream job. the only job that i ever truly wanted. the only job that i said i would allowed to take me out of new york city or even los angeles. charlie: did you come here for a visit? katy: i came here for a visit, i walked into the newsroom, you have to remind your bosses you were alive because overseas and can get slow. nbc dropped donald trump. the miss universe pageant was dropped. they said we need to cover the story. who is around? some of you said katy, she is just standing around. and i got the job. charlie: your book is about the craziest election in american history.

why was it crazy? katy: he said things nobody else would be able to say in that position because he allowed other people to say things that they would never normally say. there were no rules for this campaign. there were no boundaries. there was no taboo. there was no line that donald trump was not willing to cross. charlie: he was doing something right, obviously, because he won. beyond the fact he had his own constituency. david brooks wrote this about him. "it has to be admitted that he was elected to do exactly what he was elected to do. he never showed any interest in politics during the campaign. he was elected to shed the american culture and give a voice to those who felt voiceless and that. culture -- that culture."

katy: i thought about that in the book and who was a trump voter and how they might have been feeling. people who feel like they are screaming in a crowded room full of other people wearing earphones. their builds were spiking but their paychecks were not. people whose food is full of chemicals, whose medicine cabinets are full of pills. the feeling that america had passed them by. they go into their local main street and the shots are boarded up. they are big box stores instead of mom-and-pop. there are not young families in the neighborhood. the jobs had moved away. charlie: david also said this. what is troubling to me is those who are the target of his assault, the establishment, and have no clue about what is going on. then, they feel the most

righteous. they are actually losing and in the most peril. then he goes on to explain why. it is essentially true. there's a sense of the terms of the establishment bewilderment about donald trump. katy: i think that is right. i think if you pick up this book and you read it, you will have a better understanding of -- i think it is easy to forget what happened at the campaign. it is easy to whitewash it in your brain and say it was just nothing but a political anomaly and can never happen again. and how dare donald trump come in and do things we cannot expect a president to do. go back and read and get the day-to-day of what happened. charlie: you suggest arts of the deal where he says i understand and feed people's fantasies. katy: absolutely. truthful hyperbole. someone said he gives people a razzle-dazzle. he is good at convincing you that he is special, that he is

unique, and that he is the one who can do something that no one else can. he stood up on a podium and said, i alone can fix it. people bought into that because they bought into the idea of who donald trump was. the dealmaker, this unparalleled businessman, this savant when it comes to success. part of the reason they bought into that is because his stint on the apprentice. charlie: tell me how that followed. because he was a salesman? katy: because he was a salesman. he presented himself on the show at the ultimate is this man. -- businessman. he knew who would do well in any given job. they would say to me, he is going to hire the right people. how do you know? because i thought i'm doing on the apprentice. he did a very good job holding the mythology around donald trump your he has always done

this, charlie. you have known this for decades. he did this in the 80's and the 90's in new york with the tabloids. he. he felt. he would call up reporters and tell them -- she would sell them. he would call up the reporters and tell them donald trump cannot lose. katy: do you -- charlie: do you believe that? katy: i think they are one in the same. i think he believes what he is saying. charlie: see you think they thought that he would when -- do you think the reporters thought he would win? katy: no. they didn't. kellyanne conway was blaming the rnc and the gop for nuts of orting trump. their internal polls did not have him winning. they were blaming the rnc and the gop far off -- four donald trump's win. this enthusiasm has got to show up and is not being captured correctly by the polls. charlie: it was a core belief. katy: i think he went on and off

about whether or not he would when. toward -- win. toward the end, i think he thought definitely he would not win because that is when you saw him go out and talk about the conspiracy theories with the big banks and hillary clinton, with the liberals in the media and other shady -- charlie: he wanted to eliminate the idea that we process the results of he didn't like them. katie yes. : but he was that he himself up or he didn't win there was fraud. charlie: did he win the election or did she lose it? katy: i think there is a combination. i think you need a lot more distance from it. for as much as people liked donald trump, people hated hillary clinton. charlie: is the combination of his core supporters, he has had more than that -- so the

political question for me is the more than that. are they still with him? katy: that is a really good question. there are polls that indicate that could be breaking here and there. the people who helped her nose and decided they wanted to vote for him because they did not like hillary clinton or thought she might be under federal investigation. that is what we should be watching out for. i think it is very dependent on who the democrats put up for 2020. charlie: there is speculation. somebody quoted -- i'm not sure if he said it but quoted that there was a 30% chance he would not survive his first term. were people speculating on that? top of the 25th amendment -- katy: when i asked folks in the world about what they think of donald trump, will he remain throughout this term, the question is generally i don't know. all options are in the air.

i would be surprised if donald trump walked away from this willingly, just as i thought it was inconceivable that he would have walked away from the campaign lately when the access hollywood tape broke, when everyone's telling him to. i do not think he wants to be seen -- charlie: everybody but steve bannon. katy: yeah. i do not think he wants to be seen as a loser or a quitter. i do not know if steve bannon was trying to fire a shot over the bow that says, listen, get on board with me. get on board with who i think you should have in place in 2018 because if the democrats win the house you will be impeached. charlie: how did you go back to the campaign when you are signaled out? would you holler through the crowd -- when he would holler through the crowd there is little katy tur in the back. katie: you waive it off, you shake it off. i remember thinking what is the point of this. charlie: what was the point of

it? katy i was the first : corresponded to cover the campaign full-time. i was the first person from a mainstream media outlet, from nbc news of all outlets, to say we think you are a serious political candidate. you are a player. you have a chance. he would see me on rallies for months on and before anyone else with -- for months on end before anyone else would show up. i was the only thing he recognized in the crowd because other orders were not on that beat full-time. he would often come back and talk to reporters after a rally and i would get my questions answered all the time. when he needed a media foil to represent the lying scum press he would call out, he knew i would be out there and he can safely say katy tur, she is back there, and everyone would be able to turn around and find me. there were times when it felt

uncomfortable and threatening. certainly the muslim ban day in south carolina. charlie: what happened that day? katy: december 7, 2015. a couple from san bernardino went up and shot an office party. president obama gave a speech on terrorism and donald trump comes out and announces he wants a muslim ban. he is saying the obama administration is not vetting people properly. they are letting terrorists come in and their muslim neighbors are hiding them for you. they are out to get you in your lives are at risk. the majority of republican voters most feared being the victims of a terrorist attack. donald trump with a medium is implicit because they are not reporting it and telling you the obama administration is not

being -- is being lax with the borders. and in this room of people who are waiting for donald trump to officially announce he does not want muslims to come into the country, this bruma people where we cannot -- this room of people who could not take it was a bad idea, he's -- he starts going after the press. he says, little katy, she is back there. the whole room, thousands of people, turn around and yell at me at once. stand on their chairs to booing. they start pointing and calling me names. it was threatening. charlie: you are feeling what? fear? katy: in the moment, i thought to myself smile and wave. , so i smiled and waved. if they are intimidating you and think you are scared, it is worse. i did a live shot, another live shot, and there were stragglers that were waiting behind the

press pad. my phone is blowing up with frantic messages from my mother hoping that i am safe. messages from my bosses hoping the same thing and from fellow journalist on -- journalists on twitter coming to my defense. i finished my life shot and we thought it was a good idea to get out of there. a trump ever finds me -- staffer finds me and says these guys are going to walk you out and it was two secret service agents. charlie: you wanted the answer to why doesn't he tell the truth. why do you think he doesn't tell the truth? katy: the truth is not in his favor. charlie: in any way? so when he lies he doesn't know he is lying? katy: i don't know how after all the time we corrected him that he can say america is the highest tax nation in the world.

he is corrected in the moment and then he says things again. i'm obviously not in his mind, but he has been corrected publicly a lot for a lot of the things he says, and he still says them. charlie: does he have self-doubt at all? katy: it doesn't seem like he does. charlie: who has the capacity to say no to him today? katy: that is a good question. i think his kids have the capacity to say that. charlie: do you think they do say it? katy: i don't know. i am not in those rooms. tom barrett said that he will say no to him. charlie: i think he will. i have known them for a while. katy: there are a few people in his orbit that have been there long enough to know how to relate to him on an honest level.

i think he had a longtime buddy, he is no longer with him in the white house. charlie: there is a theory that has been expressed that general kelly, who now has access to him, has done a disfavor to him because the president said people can come in and talk to him. that it buoyed his spirit to be able to have that lose connection to people without a formal structure, without developing a gatekeeper for him. katy: the thing i can add about who can say no to him. what i noticed most about donald trump's world and those who are close to him and have a relationship with him is he inspires a lot of devotion. charlie: inspires or demands? katy: maybe both. when you ask a lot of the people that he is close with what do you think of when he does this, or do you think he is actually fit to be president, do you

think he cares enough about policy, the answer i would give even in private is he is a wonderful man and he cares about this country and he will be great for this country. that was an almost unfailing answer from everyone and his world. i don't hope it is the demand or inspiration, but they feel that way. charlie: thank you for coming. katy: thanks for having me. ♪

♪ charlie: dr. gates, jr. is here. he is one of the most respected african-american scholars. this season pages big names. -- features many boldfaced names, like scarlett johansson, larry david, and bernie sanders. here is a look. >> we match your dna against anybody who has been in my series. if you have long identical stretches, that means your cousins. >> i have some cousins? >> yes. >> i hope it is a good athlete. what the hell! you are kidding. oh my god. that is unbelievable! is it true? >> it is true. >> that is so funny. that is really funny. that is amazing. ok, cousin bernie. >> they talk about larry david

and they say he does a better bernie sanders than i do. [laughter] charlie: i'm glad to have you back. dr. gates, jr.: nice to be back. charlie: bernie sanders and larry david are cousins. you never know what is hiding in your genome. this is the fourth season. dr. gates, jr.: remember, it started in 2005. it was called african american lives and i wanted to do a 21st century version of alex haley's roots. i wanted to get a prominent african-americans and trace their family history back to the abyss of slavery. that is when the roots with -- the records disappear. i would trace the middle passage through dna and find out what ethnic group they were from, and

africa, like they claimed they did. i got oprah winfrey, chris tucker, quincy jones. it was an experiment and a big hit. pbs asked me to do a sequel and we called it african-american lives 2. we did morgan freeman. my angela -- maya angelou. god bless her soul. charlie: the idea with their lives would be more interesting to people? dr. gates, jr.: viewers, real people who to do and want to look over the shoulder -- charlie: they want to know about people and their families. dr. gates, jr.: right. here is when the brands changed. i get a letter, charlie, i started getting all these letters from people. i got a letter from a russian-jewish woman who says i've always admired your career and your stance on multicultural diversity. after watching two seasons of african-american life i decided you're a big, fat racist because

you only do black people. [laughter] my focus is african-american studies. that's my day job. i have studied that since i was 26 years old. yell, cornell, duke. i had to ask friends and pbs, can i expand the brand? we decided we would do that. why wouldn't we showed the fabulous experience with everybody? we did a show called faces of america. it was a four-hour experiment. i know how difficult black people, but how you pick what -- white people? they come in kinds, right? and then what about asian people? muslims? catholics? i did what nolo with you. two -- noah would do. two of each. it was marvelously received and i was asked to do a weekly series. 50,000 years ago, all of your ancestors no matter what you

look like today were wandering around our wandering out of east africa and that is a fact. we're over 99.9% -- it is a fact that bill clinton loves to quote -- that we are 99.9% identical. but in the name of the tiny little genomic difference, people have killed people, waged wars, enslaved people. so i'm often asked why i do the , series and the real reason is to deconstruct the received notions of race and biological difference. to show that no matter what the law was, prohibiting -- shall we say --co-mingling, everybody was sleeping with everybody else. sometimes it was in the case of

ups -- of slavery. rape. not consensual. but other times was. one of the most interesting things i've learned from this series, we have each of our guest test of three dna companies. the recent african-american descent, of them, none have ever been tested by us and i think very few by any of these dna companies. percent sub-saharan african. the average african-american is 21% european. isn't that amazing? charlie: how did that happen? dr. gates jr.: because of slavery. charlie: transporting them to places in europe and the united the newdr. gates jr.: world, specifically. more specifically, the united states. every african-american eye test, i say, do you have any native american ancestry? it's one of the great myths of

american genealogy and almost have native american ancestry. the only people we tested who had a high percentage, you would be amazed. valerie jarrett did. oprah did. and chris tucker >> because of the mapping of the human genome? then you analyze it, what does that tell you? males are why dna, your mitochondrial dna which you , inherited from your mother, and stuff from the last 500 years since the time of columbus of native american ancestry european ancestry, sub-saharan , ancestry, and asian ancestry. and there could be 30 subdivisions. charlie: that's all well and good, but i want to know who was my great, great, great, great

grandfather and who he married. dr. gates: that is the first part of the series, which is your genealogy and your family tree. the funny thing, i only realized when we were filming the first person in 2005 when i thought that african americans would be moved more emotionally by discovering their african origins. i only discovered when the first guest broke down and cried when they saw the slave ancestors. what people really bond to emotionally was when they ask exactly what you said. where was my great great great grandfather? what were they fleeing? happy people do not migrate, so what were they doing? charlie: how many were farmers? am i royal? oh, i am sure i was royal. [laughter] dr. gates: we are going to find out.

charlie: it is the essential question for everyone. who am i? dr. gates: last year we had three million viewers a week. why? i think because we have so much anxiety about the present and therefore the future that people want to take comfort from the past. you want to anchor yourself. how did i get here? what is terra firma for me? the ultimate terra firma, ultimately to find solid ground is within your self. you are carrying dna from each of the ancestors back six generations. 30 years per generation. that is everybody in your family tree from 180 years back. you are actually carrying dna from them. you are like a walking family tree. and then when you hear the stories, and nobody -- we have done hundreds of people -- no one knows anything. i used to think it was only black people who didn't know. white people, wasps don't know, jews don't know, muslims don't know. charlie: it is the reason

children who have been adopted, even if they have loving parents, want to know. dr. gates: we have the most amazing adoption story we have ever done. it was tea leoni. her mother was adopted as an infant in texas. tea only told me this when they filmed her. they were arguing about being in the series for a year because the mother did not want to know. you cannot guarantee that we are going to find your birth mother and birth father. it is very, very difficult. we have a genealogical geneticist, the sherlock holmes of genealogy, and she specializes in adoptees. to make a long story short, i said to tea, i promised you nothing, but i warn you the best we can do is find out if your

grandmother was of irish descent or french or ashkenazi jewish. i said, please turn the page. she can page, and she melted. she is looking at a woman, obviously not her mother, but her mother is a spitting image. i said, you are looking at your biological grandma, and she wilted. charlie: can she find her biological mother? dr. gates: no, she knows her mother. we were looking for tea's mother's mother and father. we found the grandparents. we found the grandfather. then she goes off because she just fell apart, as you can imagine. then she comes back and she is still fighting back tears and she says, tell me about her. when did she die? i said, she didn't die. she's still living. and then she fell apart again. can you imagine? and then we found her mother's biological father who had passed on.

the biological father is descended from a man who was a next-door neighbor to george washington. her sixth or seventh grandfather. she had no idea. it was amazing. it is fabulous. look at when we do janet mock. what moves them the most is not knowing where they are from in africa, it is knowing the names of their enslaved ancestors and, if you're lucky, the white people, sometimes black giving them dignity and , finding out where their names come from. because the overwhelming percentage of african-americans took their names from some white person who owned their ancestors. charlie: there was a ben affleck story. a story that ben affleck did not want you to disclose, and you didn't. does that happen often? was that an isolated example of how someone comes and says, this

is embarrassing to me, whatever it might be? dr. gates: it never happened since, and people know the rules. you cannot ask for something after it is filmed to not be disclosed. charlie: to stay with the idea, are people embarrassed? it is not all heroic or romantic. it often might be someone that is in their ancestry. dr. gates: someone made a joke that my job is to make people feel better about their ancestors owning slaves. if i do your family tree in season five, if you have ancestors who owned slaves, i'm not going to make you feel bad about it. i am neutral. i am just reporting who your ancestors are. we had one person who was very proud of his japanese heritage. it turns out, he was not

japanese, his grandfather was korean and was sent to japan to be educated and adopted a japanese identity and passed for japanese. and then, during world war ii, he was engaged by the nazis. he was a dancer he has a museum , in japan. he was engaged to entertain german troops in europe. that is a very embarrassing thing. he had no idea. carly simon is a dear friends, and i would tease her about her lips. look at her lips! you have something black about you. and she would laugh. i would cajole her, and finally she agreed. my partner is a cuban historian. that is crucial to the story. we asked carly what she knows. it turns out, her grandmother's nickname was shebee.

claimed she-- she was cuban 40% black. -- shebee was cuban and 40% black. we found out that her great-great-grandparents were free people of color. they had been liberated slaves. we triangulate her dna. she was about 40% black, which means carly's mother is 20% black and carly is just under 10% black. >> 10% african. >> that is equivalent to the amount of dna you would inherit from a great-grandmother of full african ancestry. we never tested a white person as black as you. >> i can't wait to tell my sisters. [laughter] charlie: this is on at what time? dr. gates: 8:00 on tuesday night. ♪ retail.

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charlie: "stories" is a new film from noah baumbach. it discovers a manhattan family. it has received widespread praise. here is the trailer. >> we could get the table last minute. that is why they give us this big of a table. i imagine they will send complimentary stuff, too. >> $55 for a steak. $35 for a salmon. do you get a salmon to blow you for that price? ♪

>> i didn't realize you had two sons. >> and a daughter. >> it will be ok here. >> it will be nice to spend time with dad. i didn't get a lot of time with him growing up. ♪ >> take all of the little birds and deep fry them. there are no little birds left anymore. they have eaten them all. ♪ >> you are going to meet a lot of interesting new people. ♪ >> you are on the list for the public viewing. right now, this is the private

viewing. >> she hears everything you are saying. ♪ >> i do not think i have ever seen jean run. run, run, run! ♪ [beeping] ♪ >> ow! you kicked me in the shin. charlie: joining me now is the director and three of the actors. noah baumbach is the writer and director. dustin hoffman plays the family patriarch, harold.

adam sandler is the oldest son, danny. and elizabeth marvel is the daughter, jean. i am pleased to have all of them here at this table. great to have you. tell us about this family. noah: something we always talked about in a way, dustin plays a sculptor. he is the father, harold, and it is a family where i feel like art has taken the place of religion. they all sort of look up to the artist and art as the hierarchy of what is success or fulfillment or happiness. because harold has not had the success he hoped for, the happiness has not come with it.

the story tells -- it is broken up into sections. we have the kids from his first marriage are played by adam and beth marvel. then he left their mom and married another woman. charlie: and is off in l.a. making a lot of money? noah: yes, he is. he is a business manager, but not an artist. he has another sense of accomplishment because he went another way. the movie sort of documents how these adult siblings have kind of come to contend with this figure in their life. charlie: how did you see harold? how did you inhabit this patriarch? dustin: my father had a lot of patriarchal qualities. [laughter] dustin: when we met, we started talking about our families. not for attribution.

but off the record, my father's past -- his is still alive, so we have to be judicious. charlie: you reached into your own understanding of your father and how he was? dustin: yes, this whole idea of success and failure. what constitutes success? what constitutes failure as an artist? in other words, you can fail as an artist, there's history of it, van gogh, whoever. and it has nothing to do with the depths or qualities of it. charlie: or even finance all -- or even later financial success. dustin: yes. charlie: tell me what you wanted to do here? you have these interesting actors playing the dynamics of a family. this is not a new subject for you. what happens within families seems to be your -- noah: i do not know exactly what brought me back to it except i think i am interested in also

family mythologies and how families, starting with the parents, invent a kind of mythology. either consciously or unconsciously. in this case, it is about what makes a true artist. but all families do it to some degree. as the kids grow up and they go out in their own lives, they become their own personal mythologies, which sometimes they don't even realize. i think a lot of growing up is kind of -- is almost unlearning some of this -- charlie: learning the relationship or the impact of the parent on the child? noah: yes, and unlearning what they have been taught. they almost don't realize they believe what they believe. in this case, it is about what constitutes success. is it -- adam's character is a frustrated musician who never

pursued it but was clearly talented, but was a wonderful father. because that is not valued, parenting is not valued in the family, he feels like a failure. but he has an amazing daughter. he has clearly done an incredible job. by another family's standards, he would be an incredible success. ben's character makes a lot of money and is successful as a business manager, but is not an artist. charlie: by the values he has learned, he is not successful. and what about jean? elizabeth: that is a great question. to me, it is so interesting because we were saying when you are making, you are a mole in the dirt and just in it. then you get to this point in the process where everyone is talking about it and you are looking objectively at it and you start to see all these things that are not just coming on instinct. jean is very interesting because i think she did not suffer from

the pressure of her father's gaze because she was not seen. she does not have that measuring stick enforced on her because she left and created a world for herself. it was safe and joyful in jean's land. and yet, he did do enough of a job that we all come home. we all come home for dinner, we all still love each other. that is something. that is not nothing. charlie: that is not nothing at all. did you see these actors in your mind when you were writing this or did you write the characters then look around and say -- noah: it started actually with -- ben and i had done two movies previously. i had an idea.

i was thinking about adult siblings. adam reached out to me a few years earlier and said if you ever have anything, which many actors will say and then years later you will send them something, sorry i just didn't respond. [laughter] noah: thanks, i cannot wait for you to offer me again. [laughter] charlie: i spent all his money i -- all this money i have. [laughter] noah: but adam was true to his word. ben, adam, and i had lunch a few years ago and talked about what became -- we did not know what it was. we talked about a lot of things, our lives, but all i left with

is there should be a physical fight between ben and adam at some point. charlie: you have no interest in making an action adventure thriller? [laughter] charlie: dustin as a killer. [laughter] noah: we could probably come up with something really good right now. dustin: we should do 007. noah: that was cast incorrectly. [laughter] charlie: in a sense, there is those personalities and those skills that they each had? that has seeped into your brain because you are talking about it. noah: yes, i did have adam and ben in mind. although when i first showed the script to people, the first few people all assumed the other actor was playing the other part. charlie: you thought you were playing ben's character? adam: i tell you, i read it and then i would have to go back to the beginning. he said i'm danny?

i could see myself playing ben's parts. both parts are pretty great. it was just a man's vision and i was danny. charlie: do you feel like when you play a character like danny, you are working with some muscles that you do not normally use or haven't always used? adam: yes. charlie: and you like that idea, i would assume? adam: yes. i go with i can see this i can , see somebody who can act like this. charlie: in your basketball terminology, you can drive and hit a three-pointer. [laughter] charlie: just wait and i will show you. adam: i want to be on the same team with you, charlie. charlie: because i am from north carolina and went to duke. [laughter]

charlie: he thinks everyone who went to duke plays basketball. adam: exactly. charlie: all of this is about the tension within the family, all of whom have this value code about the primacy of art and intelligence. noah: and then also, what is your role as a child? as a grown child, what is the responsibility? it might give it away, but later in the movie, harold ends up in the hospital. sort of like what happens if -- you have these complicated feelings about your parent. ben's character is actively rejecting the parent and then

suddenly you can't get angry at him. he is in this very vulnerable state. because of that, things change in the second half of the movie. and also, it is two sets of families. we have jean and danny from one mom and then matthew from the other. they all come together. they have not been together in the movie until this third section. charlie: was the beard your idea? dustin: no. nothing is my idea. [laughter] charlie: you are an actor. you do what they tell you. the first thing he said. dustin: start growing it now. [laughter] noah: i imagined harold with a beard, but also i felt i wanted to change dustin's face. i asked you if you ever had a

beard in a movie and i think you said lenny was maybe the only time and this was a different kind of beard. you said it changed how you felt about yourself, how you played the parts, having the beard. dustin: i think a lot of what you do as the director and a friend, as long as i have known you, is you do not really know consciously why you make certain decisions, which is quite wonderful. and i think after i was wearing it, particularly after i had seen it, it is his pretensions to prove that he is an artist. i think that was in your -- charlie: his pretension to prove he is an artist. dustin: yes. not consciously -- he wants everyone to know he is an artist. not consciously, but i think he wants to be known and respected in a way that he'd never has been. charlie: do you ever want to stand up and say -- adam: i have been doing it again.

i have been running around putting something together. i book shows and that way i have to go to the improv and other great clubs. just stop by and try to do stuff. charlie: do they react to the characters you played in movies? adam: usually, i get a nice response because the audience has seen some of my stuff. but i try to shut that down and try to get to the stuff i want to talk about or try out. dustin: "punch drunk love" is the first time i saw adam do non-comedy. i did not know him. i called him up and said, i do not think you are aware of what a wonderful character you do. you can do someone who is bipolar at least. i thought it is very good work. charlie: congratulations to all of you. nice to see you always. ♪ ♪

lisa: from new york city, i'm lisa abramowicz, in for jonathan ferro. with 30 minutes dedicated to fixed income, this is "bloomberg: real yield." ♪ lisa: coming up, what will be the pin that pops the bond market? perhaps it will be the central banks as ecb firms up its plans is to taper. leverage levels are creeping up all over as the imf focusing on the risk to financial stability. the largest u.s. banks report earnings and revealing a less creditworthy the american consumer. how big of a concern is that for debt markets? we s