lily: the results of the ceo of blackrock who came out and talked about it. jeff: you started introducing more folks to it, which leads to

the question of i do not want to get too far ahead -- but it leads to the question of regulation. much of space and financial services being involved -- not just banks and financial services being involved, but the government being involved. paul: there are a couple of moving parts there. one, you have people working on bitcoin it else and that project -- itself and that project. initially, a lot of them were antigovernment, and i regulation. it was designed as a hacker projects that wanted to get around the system. create a network or you do not need the middlemen. distances came in and then we can build a business on this. we want legitimacy, we will need to be regulated. they started reaching out to the regulators.

the last four or five years, you have a dynamic where one group is adamantly anti-regulation and the other group that says we want to bring this into the mainstream. we think this has value for people in their everyday lives, let us build regulations around this. and then have every regulator on the planet at the point where you have to figure out what this is for the economy and how to address it. jeff: explain this to me. jamie dimon was critical but said he believed the block chain technology is legitimate. what is that? paul: that is another hour. [laughter] the concepts behind bitcoin, behind the software, have probably come to become block chain technology. 's set of ideas that is essentially taking, creating a network where anything that can be digitized to be traded between two people directly. i have an asset i want to give you, let us say a mortgage deed.

give can take it and digitize it, stick it in a transaction on this software program, send it over to you. that gets timestamped in the network. it is like sending an email. instead of sending any moment an email back and forth, you're sending something that has value. block chaineally a is. bitcoin is this open source, permissionless network that anyone can control. jeff: because this was verified publicly? paul: yes. what happens is every computer on the network has a copy of this letter and every transaction gets updated on every ledger at the same time so he can be verified. the process makes it transparent.

that is what makes the banks unnecessary. previously, you would need a third-party tracking those transactions. lily: in the original white paper they talked about proof versus trust. the system we have now is based on trust. you trust a bank to keep your stuff secure. this is based on truth because you have computers that verify transactions. jeff: and it could be a mortgage or it can be a cup of coffee. catherine: yes. people say they cannot see the cup of coffee. we have with where people can conceptualize it.

people saidn day?mail would be free one i had trouble understanding that back in the day. today we have a voice over ip. with this is is money over ip. the transition of money over ip will be free again like the analogy there. the distinction, block chain bitcoin -- in silicon valley, we heard that we like this block chain but do not like bitcoin. we were saying in terms of the bitcoin block chain, you cannot have that unless you build it out and incentivize the minors with the bitcoin. bitcoin.ners with the you cannot separate them unless in jamie's case wants a wild garden trusted network. so it is called permissioned. the bitcoin block chain is permissionless. jeff: you are saying it is too

vulnerable to hacking. it already comes to the volatility to be sure but those who criticize it say it is dangerous? catherine: this is the same criticism we heard about the cloud when it first came out. everyone said that could be hacked. that is true. anything can be hacked. the cloud was an open sourced system. when you have a lot of i was watching the system and a lot of people's livelihood and businesses dependent on it, you have a lot of people watching it. you are seeing what a hack start. the news travels really fast and it stops. we think the permissionless walk-ins are very robust and secure relative to the permissions ones. >> i don't think the argument is if it is vulnerable to hacking

or phising scams. everything is. you look at all the hacks that have happened. look at equifax recently. the systems we have built up over the past few decades are extremely vulnerable to hacking. hacking is not the real argument against bitcoin. the real argument is that it is a system that authorities cannot control. they do not control the money in it, who is using it, and what they are doing it for. jamie dimon doesn't want that because it cuts into his business. regulators need to figure out is that something we can have at least enough control over that it is not going to destroy the economy, that it is not going to government.

can we accept some type of darknet transactions? bitcoin is somewhat anonymous as a currency. cash is a completely anonymous currency. there's a lot to be figured out. catherine: not just money, it is the technology. you have three forces coming together. the regulators want to impede the technology. they do not want to be accused of preventing the next internet. they are stepping lightly and we are even seeing very recently, within the last week, groups beginning to agree on bitcoin versus other crypto assets. some should be regulated by the sec and some should be regulated by the commodities exchange. the other thing that we see going on is fear on the part of regulators in the developed world.

they are stepping lightly. jeff: what you say to investors when they are looking at volatility? 1000 or so this year all the way up to 6000 and a span of nine or 10 months? not the first very dramatic swing up or down that has happened. you don't think that will end anytime soon? catherine: we size day. out of this market right now. a captured a lot of people's imaginations. we will go through heights -- hypes and then shake out. it is being battle tested almost every day. china banning it, russia banning it. these are all tests that bitcoin

has gone through and they did it came right back. market.in a bull lily: it is so resilient, at least in the last year or so. you now have bitcoin and bitcoin cash. people were scared before this happens and the prices dropped but then it bounced right back up. china banned the initial coin offering, then it went right back up. paul: until the point is that some -- assuming it gets -- jeff: -- any time soon. paul: that process will go on for a long time. yes, it is extremely volatile, but there are people like that kind of volatility. they are called traders. a lot of wall street traders are interested in this now because they can make money trading it.

people who have been doing this for a long time our total keyboard cowboys. they love this thing. they stay up all night and trade it and they do not care if it goes up or down. they are looking to make money off of it. part of bitcoin's attraction is it is volatile. there is still a small group of people trading and they are true believer tight and a lot of people are buying and holding it because they think is going to a $50,000 price. think thats i really trade. is a one-way to some extent, they think there

is something going on with the company. it is not like that yet. catherine: we found a way to measure it. if you do it on a 12 month moving average basis, it had come down quite significantly. we compare it to twitter's stock price. it dipped below that and dipped below gold and volatility last year before this next run up. volatility compared to where was an 2000 11, 2012, 2013 has come up quite -- jeff: what is the difference between buying and mining? lily: buying a cryptocurrency is literally paying money to have a digital coin. mining is a process -- i liked it think about it is people sitting around in their basement around the computer. they're looking at transactions

digitally timestamp the and make sure there is no double spending happening. if you have cement counterfeit a dollar, they can spend and two places. jeff: talk to me about what is associated with bitcoin currencies. >> there is only one way we can gain exposure is a registered investment company to bitcoin. it is only bitcoin we can access. that is through an over-the-counter security. we are just rating and the -- just trading in the stock market echoes over-the-counter. lily: the fees have changed over time for bitcoin. one complaint is what people call the scaling debate. basically, people are concerned that bitcoin transactions are getting too expensive and slow, and that is actually why bitcoin

split in two. the two rival camps could not come into agreement and there was argument about high fees and the slowness of the network. so they moved some of the transactions off one network, basically. if i am buying coffee for a couple bucks and i pay for a credit card now, mastercard and visa will take a couple percentage points and american express will take more, where is the money going? obviously, the money is going to starbucks or whoever you buy the coffee from. who else is taking -- paul: you were talking about the fees.

with the coin was designed, -- when bitcoin was designed, there was a fee. there was always a fee. it goes to the miners. this is a process transactions. it is the design of the network. in the early days, the transactions were so small that it didn't matter. that fee, a voluntary fee that i would offer the miner --you did not have to offer them anything because there is a strain on capacity. this year because there were more transactions, you are getting bottlenecks. what people were doing was offering higher fees to get their transactions put to the front of the line. jeff: some countries are embracing and some are banning it. including china. paul: china seems very anti-bitcoin. south korea, north korea. although north korea might be stealing it. south korea is starting to embrace it. in switzerland, they are pro-actually the u.k. is interested in it.

the u.s. is pretty positive for on it. if you talk to government types, they see there could be some value their and something they want to help build out. see value there and something they want to build out. every country is trying to come to grips with it. catherine: howard. that is why china did it. they were trying to get capital out and control that. the regulators are thinking about monetary policy. they are thinking about capital movements. the technology, they have to do a double take because they are saying if we ban this, we are banning this potential engine of integration -- innovation like where the internet was in the 1990's. do we want to do that? no. especially in the developed world.

you're seeing a careful analysis. i one person believes it is going to be extremely disruptive and she came out saying so a few weeks ago. because she gains credibility by calling a spade and spain, i think a lot of people set up and notice. ♪

♪ jeff: an accomplished writer and editor in the series final and a lifelong fan of the chicago cubs is here. his new book tells the story of the team from its founding to its triumph at the world series. a lens memoir, reporting, history and baseball feel itchy to explore the long-held question, why can't the cubs win. i am least to have rich cohen back at this table. life is great. you can die in peace. the cubs did win. rich: the road trip ended so we are searching for meaning a little bit. jeff: you still want to win this year. rich: more than anything. people ask me why i am a cubs fan. i don't know. it was given to me when i was a kid but it becomes so intense you try -- jeff: the doctors are good.

-- the dodgers are good. rich: i am happy living in the past. jeff: honestly, how long does it last? was it as satisfying as he thought it would be? rich: it was disorienting because the cut had not won in 108 years. disorienting because had not won in 108 years. losing was so regular and happens in such weird ways that we turned it into a kind of religion.

i thought being a cubs fan made you kind of better because they were kind of like buddhists. you have given up on the idea of ambition. you are just enjoying the game. when you wore the cubs hat, you told the world my kingdom is not of this world. we won and i think the red sox and went through the same thing. the identity changes and you realize your children grow up in a strange world where they think the cubs are a great baseball team. jeff: was it early banks who said it was never a curse but a fear? rich: i think in one of the last interviews with sports illustrated, the points were the curse became serious was 1969 where they had an incredibly great team up by seven games in september and they collapsed. i asked what is the curse. he said it is not voodoo, it is fear. when you have never one in your team has number one and you -- -- when you have never won and you get into high-pressure games in the season you do not know how to win and you choke. the owner of the cuts that to me the reason he thought they did not win was because you build a baseball team to win over a 162 game season and you get into the

playoffs and it is a crapshoot. to increase your odds, you have to go back multiple years and they never competed in the playoffs since the early 1900s. also, this is their third straight appearance in the nlcs. they had a chance to be there at the end. jeff: it is a fear among the players, the ownership, the fans. it is pervasive. rich: i think it is almost like a psychosis. one moment that was hard for me was the bartman game where the fan reached for the ball and the cubs fell apart. the world series and the fans at wrigley, whom i love dearly, instead of taking out their anger at the players, in the field they turned to bartman, the fan. it is like something is happening to you and you'd don't know what you did to deserve it. jeff: i am a bills fan. i'm waiting to get over that hump. how did the cubs come to be, and it certainly wasn't the same way back then than it is now.

rich: i am not really a sportswriter. it is american history shot down in a way you can understand it. i am saying if you tell the story of the cuts correctly, you are telling the story of america in a fun house mirror. baseball came out of the civil know it.way, as we in cincinnati, they put together a team full of ringers. that was the red sox. red stockings.re tether another team

of ringers. they were called the white stockings. they beat the red stockings. the real source of the curse is their first great captain created the color line in baseball. they had a famous double-play combination. games. they were like the yankees became in the 1940's. they dominated. jeff: how did they go from that seem to falling off the end? good upll they stayed through world war i. the world series,

but would lose. corporate thing. corporate culture. they won 700 games in eight seasons. they went to the world series but would lose. it was a corporate thing. sports is not necessarily make sense as a business unless you love the sport and want to win. william wrigley wanted to win. his son really didn't care about baseball. when asked about his favorite

sport he said craps. i didn't even know it was a sport. maybe if you bring your are back -- your arm back and forth you can break a sweat. he was like i don't care about the sport but i wanted bring people out so he made wrigley field. jeff: what is sensational postseason? in terms of the teams you have, you're the biggest teams and new york, chicago, houston all competing here. three of them have fantastic pedigrees. houston with what is happened with the team that is young and dynamic and exciting, i have to imagine major league baseball is pleased with what they have seen this fall. rich: not only that, i think personally baseball is ever then it has ever been. the games are maybe a little too long. i have little kids and i know you have little kids. the move away from football and where will those kids go? baseball is really athletic now. the cubs are a throwback to the dead ball era of baseball and how athletic the teams are. jeff: even with all the excitement -- and my son is huge into baseball right now, he was in the local sports store the other day and he said football stuff still outsells baseball stuff 10 to one. rich: it is hard to accept as a parent letting your can damage their brain. baseball always was america's sort of first sport. the cubs are the first pro team in america. it is so linked up to american history that there is something special about it. even the chicago bears. started by george callis because he started as the right fielder of the new york yankees, billed as the right fielder, then started the bears to distinguish

them from the cubs. so they've always been intertwined and baseball's always been sort of the first sport. jeff: what did the u.s. team do that no one has been able to do for 100 plus years? rich: what theo said to rick was are you willing to let this team get bad?

so bad he cannot have dinner out in chicago. the thing he said to me was missing was owned by the tribune company and they were airing the games. they wanted the team to seem like a plausible contender. they never let them truly fall apart like they needed to do. he also said he never would have bought the team if they won the world series. he knew in chicago if you broke the curse you would go to heaven without a stop in purgatory. he signed on to that. if you are watching the cubs in those years, they were some of the worst cubs in history. lost over 100 games. they never let the team fall apart like that. is an interesting thing. the story is power of a narrative. the cubs as the lovable losers had an effect on the mentality of the team. that is what they said. joe girardi was on the cubs then. he said look at the pictures around the locker room and pictures of guys will bring

together on the mound. there are pictures of wrigley but they're celebrating individual accomplishments. jeff: do you think there is that much psychology to it? rich: i do, especially in baseball. i think the cubs are a great team and the best team in a baseball, probably because i am a cubs fan. they have a fatal flaw where every now and then they stop hitting. i want to go yell at them to wake up. it passes from player to player and they go flat. that is why they were swept by the mets. momentum is a big deal in baseball. that is why they always fall apart right at the end of the season. every cubs fan has one team that almost killed them. in 1984, the cubs team almost died. that is why i became a bears fan. the bears were penicillin for a wounded cubs fan. they were about five or six out the way. it seemed strange that easy place could not be made.

ernien see that is what banks was talking about. rhino, larry the boa constrictor, once every four or five days, steve trout on the amount. i remember arguing with my father that bob, the center fielder, was too soon to tell, but it looks like he would be a better center fielders and joe dimaggio. i should say my father is a yankees fan. he grew up in new york. he took me to my first cubs game and after the game he made me promise not to become a cubs fan because he said that he will -- that team will ruin your life. he said he will have diminished expectations and expect all human endeavor to end in defeat. jeff: talk a little bit about your kids. rich: they are cubs fans and i did not do it intentionally.

we're watching a game and the cubs were falling apart. i looked at them and i got that feeling and i looked at them and thought, oh my god. what have i done? i am a monster. this is child abuse. to am i passing this on another generation? jeff: it is obviously easy for them now after they won. rich: they won when i was 48 result. if they won when i was 16 i taller, more and much more handsome. jeff: how is the dynamic between the cubs and the white sox? rich: the white sox and are going to hate me. i feel like from my friends, the white sox fans have resentment toward the cubs and the cubs do not care.

they are connected in all of these ways. they took the name from the cubs. the white sox will always be the team in my mind that fits in the world series in 1919. jeff: what is it like writing a book like this as an outsider, not the cubs' beat reporter? rich: my whole thing is i do not want to be outside -- inside. i want to be outside. i want to get it from the grandstand in the with the fans and get it from the guy jerking beer in the bleachers. he would broadcast from the bleachers and he would get increasingly drunk as the game went on. evolving is no way he could really see what is happening. he was 380 feet away and describing everything wrong. he got the bigger story which is what it means to be a cubs fan is in the bleachers and what you go through out there. they had no light, which meant they played all day games.

if you lived on the north shore, you can get on a train and get down there for the third inning and that was your first taste of the grown-up world. jeff: some of the dodgers' world series that they are back. thatll you know they did with the cubs, they sort f caray.ed harry ernie.eded can beto say anybody win.ous when the

when youthe lose is real aristocrat. that is how people react when they win or when they lose. when the cubs won the world series in game seven last year, i was so excited but my focus immediately went to the cleveland indians dugout to see them. that is who i identify with. jeff: the author is rich cohen. great to see you. rich: go cubs. ♪

♪ jeff: "one of us" is the new documentary from heidi ewing and rachel grady. it reflects the community in brooklyn and follows three former members who have been harassed and shunned for leaving. it will debut friday, october 20. >> i was living a double life for a little over a year. i called my mom and said hey, mom. can i talk to you? "yeah," and i said, ire you sitting down?" and said "i am not religious anymore." she said, "ok." hung up.just

againen we didn't speak for seven years. ♪ >> i looked in a mirror and saw something that is not what i want to be. i chose a different path. i don't know anything. i have to learn how people live. google? what the hell is that. i couldn't google what to google because i didn't know how to google in the first place. >> anybody who leaves will end up in jail. they never make it out there. >> a spouse who beat me, broke me. i never responded. i am breaking a religious law if i pressed charges. i cannot do it anymore. if you do not show up in court, then you lose your children. >> we can no longer retreat. >> nobody leaves the community a must they are willing to pay the price. >> 911, what is your emergency. >> there are people of the door banging at the door. >> you know these people? > my husband's family. jeff: thank you for coming. what first brought you to this subject?

>> my codirector rachel and i are new yorkers. rachel lives adjacent to this neighborhood. community. curiosity about who areidic group, identifiable by their dress

and they are often not making eye contact with us. it started with a point of curiosity. jeff: not making contact with you by design? >> yes. they do not interact with outsiders unless they absolutely must. jeff: how big is the community? >> 350,000 in new york. the majority in brooklyn. jeff: what is the reasoning? >> the community was started in eastern europe in the 1700s. in eastern europe, the community was not as insular as it is today. the vast majority of this group of hassidic jews were holocaust,d in the partly because they refused to blend in. they kept ring the clothing, they were loud and proud about their identity. the vast majority died in the holocaust. when the survivors came to the united states, they became more suspicious of outsiders. the theory is this is a

community that is traumatized by the holocaust and passes that down generation to generation. that is their reasoning. they would like to be left alone. jeff: you mentioned you followed three different people as they tried to leave this community with varying degrees of difficulty. one of them is ettie, who has seven children. this is him talking about the strict rules for children. library for any purpose. a lot of rules. so many rules. my son was in second grade. hassidich reader, all the

schools are using it. female scribble, female scribble. how are they not putting a yarmulke on this? how did he know which was which? reading and education is deprived of the community. that is how they keep their control. jeff: how old is ettie? heidi: ettie is 33. jeff: she had her first child at 18? when did the recognition come that she didn't want to be a part of the community? >> she suffered abuse by her husband. divorce.wanted was a

ettie had gone to the rabbi with no many times success. it is discouraged to go to secular courts, to call 911, to rely on secular institutions. there is the rabbis that one talks to, counseling like that. she talked to the many types of ways. she got fed up and got an order of protection. she went to the authorities. that was a breach of protocol. that was considered a betrayal. the community looked at it as a betrayal. it was a quick house of cards after that. seeing the film, she was pushed out of the community and they attempt to take her children from her. she just wanted a divorce. jeff: she no longer has her children? >> she no longer has her children. jeff: how did you get to know ettie and the others, and how do they give you this kind of access? >> there is a reason you have hassidica film about

hassidic jews who will talk to you. my codirector and i were secular women so we never thought we would make a film like this. we read an article about an organization called footsteps. they have been helping people transition into a more secular lifestyle. they got their membership from shipley and jealously. their address is not listed on the website. it is a private space where people were thinking of leaving comfortable. it's a them about six months to agree that we can come and hang out in their lobby and his eye footsteps with no cameras and talk to people. through those months and months of showing up in talking to people, we were able to find film.ople in our

jeff: possesses the organization that shepherds these folks through the process when they decide they may want to leave the community. >> that is right. they are pretty much the only one. jeff: what sort of threats or face?nges does footsteps >> they are despised. there looked at as a group that wants to remove people from the community. we observed neither of those things to be true. even a someone in the community find that you have been to footsteps, you are out. it is not like you telling when you have been inside until you are positive you want to leave. jeff: talk about what happened when you used some of the clips from 2011, a speech given, warning about technology and the internet as it relates to the hassidic community and what these rabbis would like to see. >> this is a massive anti-technology rally. this rally made him. about the internet. the community is very anti-technology. there are businesses in the community that can filter your cell phones, filter your computer so that you can only do searches perhaps for a local shopping.

it is very guarded. the genie is out of the bottle but the community continues to warn people of watching secular films. internet. the jeff: he said he had to google how to google. he said he did not know how to do math. what does he learn in this community growing up? >> he's a very traditional boy. he was raised in the most powerful sect. his first language was yiddish. he barely learned english. he had to learn it because it is the law. went to an all boys school where there is no premium on proper education. you come out of the community at 18, he was curious when he

learns about the big bang he said. he had no idea. furious. you have to circumscribe. that is one idea -- one reason why more people do not leave. how can you make it out here? jeff: he cut his hair. what is the reaction when that happens? >> the site girls are in identifying marker. -- the side curls are an identifying marker. loes weight oro wears pants. curls is an act

of rebellion saying i'm the no longer with you. jeff: they reacted to this? have they had a dialogue with you at all? heidi: almost all of our attempt to reach out remember the response that they are not interested in participating. if there were any people who had left the community represented in the movie, they would not speak to us. they wished us the best of luck, including the representatives out there in the community. we do have a feeling and a sense of some of the elders in the community, and one lovely gentleman does sit with him and you get a sense of the camaraderie and kinship that exists within the community. we have not had a dialogue with them. they are not in the film. they're not the selection of place. i can imagine many people will see it anyway. we were shut down. jeff: ettie says she was threatened and harmed by those who did not want her to leave. heidi: she was threatened by her husband and others. we have a series of phone calls in the film you hear. she also suffered a very

mysterious bike accident days bike was was told a not acceptable. this operating a bicycle, which is absolutely bad behavior. she was stalked. she was followed for many months and make to feel afraid and isolated and alienated her -- by her family. she lost everything after she filed for an order of protection. jeff: when the speeches like one we saw at city feels are given, get rid of the phones, get rid of everything that provides any sort of communication to the outside world, why? heidi: the community for the most part leads technology and this sort of secular information is a threat to their existence. they want people to be born, raised, get married, have children in the community to make up for the people who died. it could make people too ambitious to pursue higher education or put off having children. the idea is if you can keep it

out, you can keep the unity intact. jeff: how do they make money? hassidicobs inside the community are what? heidi: the majority of the community is at or below the poverty line. williamsburg in brooklyn is the poorest part of brooklyn. there are a handful of families that have all of the money and they share that with the rest. they pay for the weddings and funerals and charities and all sorts of things. it used to be more the garments and diamond industry. community nowic it is real estate.

a large amount of the real estate and burrell park in other parts are owned by a handful of families. they are funding a lot of the community got a lot of reliance on social services. netflix.e of us on -- thank you so much. ♪

carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." julia: we are inside the magazine's headquarters in new york. carol: an exclusive interview. julia: the company whose robots are making everything and changing the world. carol: exercise, no sit-ups required. all of that and more on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ carol: we are here with the editor-in-chief megan mu