♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: two days after a vehicle attack in lower manhattan killed eight people and injured others, details are emerging about the history and possible motives of the suspect. sayfullo saipov came to the united states from uzbekistan in 2010. he told authorities that he carried out the attack for "isis." he had been planning the attack for up to one year. federal authorities charged saipov with the terrorism. president trump twice tweeted that saipov should get the death penalty. joining me now is a journalist

who covers national security and terrorism for the washington post. and joining me here is a special correspondent for the daily beast. what do we know now that we did not know yesterday? >> i don't know if there is anything dramatic we know. you have a picture of the man, a computer chose him. he worked for a hotel in uzbekistan. he wins. whether he wanted to do and do not come everyone said, you won the lottery. he comes and stays with some people in ohio and has an idea that she was a bookkeeper and a hotel back home and thought he might do it here, but he doesn't speak english. so the guy he was staying with was driving trucks, so he

started writing trucks. you can see this guy kind of solitary driving all over the united states in his truck, going back to his family. he gets married, has two daughters, then his wife becomes pregnant with a third child. that means that whole time that she is pregnant he is coming home and he is planning something, while the son is coming into being. the son is born. that does not change anything. daddy is collecting videos of isis beheadings, tortures, and murders on cell phone. one of the things i noted about where he was living in new jersey, one of the toys up front was a little fire engine. he comes to the city of new york and you look at a fire engine and you think of the fdny, and

that makes you think of 9/11. yesterday there was a truck from 1010, the world trade center fire house firehouse, driving down the path this guy took washing away the blood. there was a police helicopter above it. i think there has been nothing we learned about him that we didn't kind of know the minute you heard it happened, another lone loser, a guy who pick stuff up from isis. we are talking about the isis playbook. and even talked about you should throw leaflets. this guy thought that was two pieces of paper. he did everything except for the end where he is supposed to martyr himself. he had fake guns and could not get to his knives and does not martyr himself.

now you have the president of the united states saying he should be executed. maybe that's not going to break this guy's heart. >> this is the case we are hearing about radicalization after he was here in the united states. yesterday in the papers, we are talking about 90 videos, 38 images recovered from his cell phone and other places. >> and what he has described according to court documents is he watched these videos a lot. they both encouraged and probably got him more accustomed to the notion of taking lives in hurting people because the videos he is watching are obviously pretty gruesome. it seems like he was using the videos and other things to psych himself up. that is the description we are getting from folks working the case.

it is as mike said, and incredibly sad thing, but also very predictable in the sense that he had a flash bang of about a year. we were told that in recent weeks have he had been driving rental trucks. michael: now he is driving an uber, probably not too happy. what does he do? he scouts that route. this guy is driving along the west side highway on manhattan, people walking, biking, jogging, and living their lives along the water with the statue of liberty off to the right and the freedom tower rising there, it is just a beautiful thing. and he is thinking what he is going to do to kill people.

radicalization -- i don't know if that is the right word. when you get down to it it is not religion. it is people working out their own personal pathologies working out something. i think of the men who flew the first plane into the world trade center who went to his father and said he done it and the father's reactions that he could not have done that. he is too weak. osama bin laden was his father's 53rd kid, but his mommy's one and only boy. you can see certain pathologies at work. they latch onto that stuff. he has a whole phone, two phones, of this stuff. two phones of these kind of twisted ways he can fill everything inside himself. he is not just a guy driving some truck doing this for a country called america. he has power.

he is connected into something big. it wasn't a mistake for him to leave home. i think ultimately he wanted to prove he did win the lottery. i am a winner. i did win something. because i am with isis. he talked to the cops about hanging and isis flag in his hospital room. i mean, that is a guy who is nuts. that is not a guy who is radicalized. that is a guy who became nuts, i think. >> combine the pathology with almost the manual, written and published in june this year, almost terror by numbers, and he follows the checklist. devlin: sure. as terrorism has evolved since 9/11, 9/11 compared to this was complex and sophisticated. this is literally find of big, heavy vehicle and find some veterans and bicyclists and plow them down. there is a

de-technologicalization of this whole thing. isis says use a rock, a car, anything you have, and that will be enough. you can call them pathological, broken people, people who have some serious problems. for them, that is enough. >> you mentioned it a couple of times, that lottery and the visa program. the president yesterday during his press conference when out of the way to say this individual, he was a reference for a number of other people. what do we know about that? michael: that stuff is dangerous because you say this guy came in on this plane with this guy, went to this wedding. that's like going to a mafia wedding and you think this guy was seen coming in here and

later went to dinner with this guy, so i think that stuff is a little dangerous. i don't think this guy was a cell or something. some people in the mosque noticed he was getting a little extreme. the more reasonable people told him he ought to cool it. i'm sure other people noticed, past remarks or something like that. this guys plot consisted of going to home depot, taking the $19.95, putting down a deposit, leaves his car, and then go and does it. >> what about this idea that has the actual caliphate get smaller and smaller and faces more intense military pressure in that part of the world that the virtual caliphate seems to grow

rapidly. devlin: i think there is a lot of truth to that. the virtual caliphate, the notion that the ideas can be infectious is true. you don't really need a coherent state to make that happen. as far as the points of contact and the 23 other individuals, if it helps you understand, he was listed as a point of contact for 23 other people who came or wonder to come from uzbekistan to america. that is not the same thing as sponsoring someone. he can't sponsor someone the on his wife and children, so there has been a lot of misinformation about what that 23 people point of contact thing means come and frankly it does not mean a time, however in the course of the last year or two,, the fbi was interested in a friend of his

and that is how he came on the radar. what that says to me is they were not focused on him. they were focused on someone else. the uzbek community is such a small community in this country that a lot of them know each other and use each other as references or have two degrees of separation. we are being cautioned by sources to not read too much into these things because it is a small and insular immigrant community. michael: governor cuomo said there is no evidence to suggest a wider plot or wider scheme. >> governor cuomo said there is no evidence to suggest a wider plot or wider scheme. michael: they're plot is that if we put all this stuff out, a recipe out -- they put out a recipe for a pressure cooker bomb. ok we will not do the pressure

cooker's more with christmas tree lights. we will do the trucks. that is a plot. someone set something in motion figuring something else will do it. that is a plot. it is a very large plot in a sense. the individual involved is not necessarily involved with other people, but it is a scheme, and for them it works. if you walk down where this latest thing happen and look at the freedom tower and look at the memorial polls and see the names of all the people murder that day, then you say to yourself, what do we do about the names of these people who got murdered on halloween? where do we put that in our national history? that wasn't pearl harbor day. it was smaller, but not small to each one of those families and it certainly seems it will continue on.

the way you can combat hijacked airplanes is tsa everywhere and search everybody and go through underwear and do all that. what are you going to have to vet everybody at home depot? >> there was back-and-forth about whether this individual should be sent to court on a tried in civilian courts. a lot of that came from the president himself. devlin: the justice department and the fbi are plowing forward. to the extent they can, they have been tuning out that white house running commentary going on at the same time. one of the oddities of this whole thing has been first the president says he should be sent to gitmo, and then overnight has a change of heart and says

definitely keep him in new york and try him there. the whole time that is going on, the prosecutors and fbi are doing their case and the two things are not speaking to each other in any meaningful way. as much as the president seems to be all over the map as far as the policy issues go, this straight line of the doj and fbi seems to be clear at this point, that they are preparing for what could be a death penalty case, and that so far does not seem to be affected by anything coming out of washington or the white house. >> what about trying to find a jury that doesn't know what the president think should be done? michael: most juries would probably not pay any attention to what this president says. we are in the city of new york. i think it was a great victory to have this guy ever. charged as a murderer, not -- this guy at the -- appear,

charged as a murderer. i think it is a victory. there comes that moment when the judge comes in, all rise. this guy will rise one way or another. the preceding goes and he's going to get a fair trial. the jurors, in any city, jurors work at doing their duty. this one of the great things of america, i think. i'll response will be the right response. i would rather see him in manhattan criminal court personally. i would rather have him in rikers island with some people to introduce him what to do. i think it was a victory.

the worst thing that could happen would be to send this guy to gitmo as an enemy combatant. all those years, 16 years after he murdered thousands of people in downtown manhattan, he is down there dying his beard with kool-aid. >> thank you both. >> thank you. >> thank you. ♪

♪ >> we leave you tonight with an interview charlie taped earlier this month with annie leibowitz. her latest collection is called andy leibowitz portrait. charlie: tell me how, look at this, and he leibowitz portraits 2005-2016. why this book now? >> i have done over the years books that are works that are accumulated over time. i had a book in 1990 then did a book in 2005, 1990-2005. those were the years i was with susan sontag. it must've been three months before the election and i was

working on a show that was going to be at this brand-new incredible, this kind of brand-new museum of the world. my work from 1970-1983, which was with rolling stone magazine, over a thousand photographs. i saw so many images that repeated, history repeating. i was thinking of all the work -- it was august -- i was thinking of all the work i had accumulated since 2005 and i thought, you know, i should try to do an edit of my work now that would include the updating of the women's project and the series on artists, and would end with hillary clinton in the white house. that would be my ending. charlie: that was your plan.

annie: that was my plan. hillary and the white house was going to be a beginning. i put all the work together. it was actually fairly simple to do that because there was so much work from 2005. charlie: and then we had an election. annie: then we had an election. i was like everyone else, i was in shock. i actually i guess a week or so later -- i mean, i was very lucky because i happen to be with gloria steinem, the women's show was opening here in new york, and she was so incredible. i was very lucky to be with someone who had been through so much pain, seen so many things go wrong and sort of has come out of them. we were sort of walking around like lost sheep, not knowing what had happened, it was pathetic.

so i actually told them i did not want to do the book. charlie: even though you had put a lot of work into it. annie: yes, yes, but i did not have my ending. i love my books because they tell a story of the time. it is a collection. it's what i don't get to do working for the magazines. the magazines are wonderful. but the books tell these stories, so -- charlie: the store you wanted to tell was not there. >> it wasn't there. i floundered. they said, come on, you can do it. i think the book falls apart towards the end. i think in the last 20-30 pages you can feel not knowing where to go or what to do.

i have was throwing everything in there. i shot kate mckinnon, throw her in. i shot opera, threw her in. we had to pick ourselves up. i tried to photograph people who were doing good things. charlie: one of the things you wrote is, i guess you could say they were years when the culture was shifting in ways -- annie: we didn't. we didn't. charlie: from 2005-2016. annie: i think when i think about this period it is such a beautiful period because it was the obama years and he was such an elegant man, and mrs. obama, but my job is not just politics as you know. it is to look over all.

we were thrown topsy-turvy. look at the photographs at the beginning of the book of trump. he is an amusing pop-culture character that became the president, then you have this great woman who should've been the president of united states. charlie: it still be wonders people, doesn't it? annie: you and i have been alive for long time. we know we will write ourselves. we just feel this. i feel the women's march, which was really a march of humanity

where everybody came out. i go home at night have dinner with my kids. i go over to the tv set. i have the choice of am i going to see what trump did today or am i going to watch vietnam, which is incredible. charlie: a series by ken burns. annie: a brilliant series. hillary clinton i watch tonight? it is just that i have to believe, i believe in us as people and i know we will -- and gloria steinem said this, that we are a movement, not one person. charlie: and america is an idea too, as bono said. america is an idea in the country in 200 years has gone

here and here. but you have been a witness to all of that annie: annie:. it has been -- to all that. annie: it has been a privilege, and i feel responsible. i will continue. i do think it is not about one picture or two pictures. it is a movie, a film. charlie: you and i have been doing a similar thing. annie: i thought that too. i think it is interesting you took yourself out of the studio. charlie: yeah. annie: it is not dis-similar to go on location and out in the field to see what's going on out in the field. charlie: we are telling the story of our time to the people of our time. you have said given enough time that you can find the essence of

a person. annie: let me move in and i promise you we will find your soul within a few weeks. we will definitely have your soul. we don't have that amount of time. i don't expect that from people i photograph. those really beautiful, incredible, soulful pictures are few and far between, but you can still document fairly well. charlie: you said the photographer's life is really close to who you are. that is your signature. annie: photographers life, it is interesting you bring that up, because it was so important to me when i did it. when i discovered this story of knowing susan and my children being born and my father dying, there was nothing that would stop me from working on that collection of material. the final work seemed relevant to me.

charlie: for all the reasons you have talked about and we have written about. annie: i came out of a photographer's life, and as the years went on, i realized i wanted to work on my portrait work and i felt i let my family, my children, susan -- it was too vulnerable. i don't have a regret about it. i think it is very strong work. susan said that photography interferes too much with experience, and i think that she could be right. she could be right after all. i wonder what she would say today about what is going on with our iphones.

charlie: was there something missing from the photographer's life that you thought should have been in their? annie: no, but the thing about being a photographer is that photography is the experience. that is what is interesting. charlie: photography is the experience rather than the photograph? annie: well, i knew when i was younger that all i wanted out of an experience was a photograph. i did not want anything else. yes. so i don't think susan was wrong. unless you are a photographer -- charlie: going from artist to athlete to landscapes to whatever, is or something that unites them in your mind? annie: i do like to admire people and like to make points and like to tell stories.

i think in pilgrimage i had the opportunity -- i keep thinking of the picture that pops up is the storeroom in yonkers, which by the way a lot of the material which by the way a lot of the material was put in the basement and destroyed and sandy. charlie: when the water rose it went there? annie: yeah. those photographs, the trunks and everything, they are kind of history now. i always wanted to photograph martha graham and never had the opportunity to do it. i found the remnants of martha graham and that storeroom. i walked in and everything was like that and i took that photograph. her life in those trunks, you know. ♪

♪ charlie: do you think of yourself as much journalists as you think of yourself as much photographer? for every bit of you as photographer, you are also artist, journalist, storyteller.

annie: i have been doing this for over 45 years. photography is broad and big and has many possibilities. it was interesting to look at the work from 1970-1980 because i just photographed everything i saw. everything i saw -- it was where i was. i always had a camera with me all the time and was taking photographs all the time. it is kind of a tour de force that work from that time, 20, 21, out there with the energy and strength to shoot like that. in the 1980's, after rolling stone, i went to vanity fair and tina brown was running vanity fair and trying to pull it up and bring it back and have it survive. i started, i had already started before i left rolling stone doing portraits, but the journalism hasn't left. the journalism is there. i understand journalism, but i left journalism behind because i

felt strongly that i was going to have a voice in my photographs. i felt that you are not supposed to do that with journalism. you are supposed to stay objective. i then sort of said i am going to be a portrait photographer because it is ok to have a point of view in the photograph, but journalism is definitely there. when things happen so fast, that is journalism. i think when you have a little more time to think about it, it can become something else. charlie: it becomes art too. annie: the cover of the book is supposed to be biblical. charlie: this cover? biblical? annie: yes, because it started off i wanted to work on a series -- charlie: you mean the stories of

the bible? annie: yes, and then it turned into -- she was probably the last person in the world you would want to be eve. charlie: when you see that photograph, what do you say? annie: i am impressed with her as a performance artist. charlie: i am too. annie: what saves it is that you turn it over, that is james franco. charlie: yes. annie: adam and eve, but it is a little bit off, just a little bit off, i hope. charlie: have you been influenced by the great editors you have worked with? annie: i have been so lucky.

my life and my work started off like jan winter. he built rolling stone from scratch, hunter thompson, tom wolfe, gonzo journalism. we were out there. going from the on to tina brown -- jan to tina brown, who had her own quirky way of looking at things and was fascinated with the culture. charlie: how do they influence you? annie: she turn the magazine around.

-- turned the magazine around. to work with grade and, then anna wintour who understands popular culture -- charlie: how did they define you? how are they part of the definition of an illegal wits? annie: after 13 years of rolling stone, it was hard for anybody to tell me what to do. charlie: i think it's been hard for anybody to tell you what to do for a long time. annie: they understood. they were smart enough to let me go and find my way. charlie: and you were tough enough to be able to do it? annie: i love my work. every now and then something like caitlyn jenner, that is having the courage to run caitlyn jenner on the cover. he does not come to the shoot and we don't talk about what it will be.

charlie: what was his contribution? annie: that he has the wherewithal to run something like caitlyn jenner. charlie: and i would say he has the confidence to trust you. tina brown said to me that the definition of a good editor is being able to recognize a great writer. that is it. a photographer is a great writer working with a camera rather than a pen. annie: she gave me the o.j. simpson story and i was like, oh, my god. i remember watching it on the news thinking i'm so glad i am not there, then i get a call from tina and she says go out and shoot this. charlie: just go shoot it? annie: yeah, no wintel shoe. i had a hard time getting into the courtroom.

-- yeah, no one tells you. i had a hard time getting into the courtroom, getting into the pool, and in the pool turned me down. it turned out this judge was a fan of my work and said this is my courtroom, she can come in. i just photographed shapiro, who was trying to work out something with oj, and all the rest is -- charlie: here is the point. at what point did you shooting at, at what point did you become a star so that the judge, the idea of having an illegal wits take the picture. annie: i talk about this story because it is a turning point. it is kind of thankless to be

well known and do what i do on some level, and sometimes it works to your advantage. that is the advantage in that particular story. in fact, it did help. you were in hollywood. you were in l.a. it helped and all those little things sort of mattered. it does not matter in the long run. what matters is your work, what you do, how you do it. it is perplexing to me to be well known about what i do, but i also have a theory because i worked for over 20 years in a vacuum. i did not really know people knew my work. the first book i put out was

1970-1990, and in 1990, people knew who i was. charlie: these were the rolling stone years? annie: yes, including rolling stone and the beginning of vanity fair. you know me. charlie: i do. annie: the last time i saw you, i said i am really nervous doing this. charlie: we have something to do here. annie: so i now i have children and it doesn't matter to me that i can present myself, present the work, and present what we do, what i do. and that really matters to me. i was so proud of this traveling global women's show that went around last year.

charlie: because? annie: for my three daughters. charlie: because you wanted them to know how much their mother was appreciated and how much the value of her work was celebrated? annie: no, because we want to do good things. in the long run, we won to do things -- want to do things that matter, because why bother otherwise. why bother otherwise? charlie: why bother, you know. when did you get to that? was it the kids? annie: when i was young, i was very brash. charlie: you were born brash? annie: i don't think so. charlie, i was not born brash. i was actually so naive, not stupid, but i was bright eyes and i could not believe everything that i was walking into. charlie: you mean when you began with rolling stone? annie: i went on tour with the rolling stones. i hung onto my camera for dear life.

charlie: really? because it was your security blanket? annie: no, it scared the hell out of me. i took my tennis racket thinking we will stay in good hotels. i was so naive. charlie: but you got caught up in the lifestyle too? annie: i did get caught up in the lifestyle. charlie: did it almost ended for you? annie: it was bigger than me. i was basically stupid. charlie: when did you realize

you were over your head? annie: i wasn't really, you know, -- i think after i got off the rolling stone tour in 1975, it took me a while to get off the tour, but i always knew i wanted to get off. it is not attractive. charlie: you were not addicted to the lifestyle? annie: no, it was, you know, when you take photographs and you don't have a life. basically you are taking photographs all the time and you go from assignment to assignment, having a life is so important. building a life, i did not know how to build a life and had to work on that. charlie: what started that? susan? annie: i was determined to come

and know, when i met susan i was -- to, and you know, when i met susan i was in several relationships. susan called back and i was like, ok. i was like, well, there's a couple of things going on there. she was very, and i kind of thought about this relationship with susan and thought, oh, god. this means i will have to be good. this will be about my work. charlie: because she would not have it any other way? annie: that's right. that's right. she is tough. charlie: she set a bar? annie: she definitely set a bar. she did not have to do much to set a bar. she was the bar. she was in extorting a woman -- an extraordinary woman. if we miss her right now because she could talk about this time.

charlie: she could define this time? annie: i don't hear anything like that. charlie: did you have anybody that was a role model for you? was there somebody? annie: i love photography and admire photography. robert frank, breson, helmut newton, the list goes on. sally mann, i love sally mann. i love photography. i feel like i am an encyclopedia inside of this photography. it is so great to have it in your head. when i was photographing the queen and said i am thinking about cecil beaton, and she said you really have to find your own way.

i was like very disappointed because i had based the shoot on him. charlie: that's great. didn't she said for a portrait? annie: yes, that was a strange, interesting painting. it was more crown then head. that is such an important point, just to bring up the fact that she sat. she really understands who she is in that respect. if she gives herself over, she knows she is going to be interpreted in so many ways. she like that painting. if i were her -- i love lucian freud.

charlie: so i think you have said this, and i hope you have. annie: me too the way you are saying it. charlie: you welcome age and learn from age. annie: i have said that. it is not talked about enough, how interesting it is. charlie: i do too. annie: it is really exciting. doesn't mean you will necessarily take a better photograph, but you know what you are doing. it is great. i just love it. i just love it. you know when you do something -- and when you do something really, really great.

charlie: has there been any diminishment in your enthusiasm? annie: no, because i am photographing people and every time it is a different experience. there are just different aspects to every single shoot. i push myself. one of the reasons -- i have gone through 3-4 studios in new york city. i have had a glamorous, big studio. i on purpose -- because i want to go out. i want to be on location, where the person lives, have something to do with who they are, so it keeps it, it keeps it really come you know, interesting. i am into this. you also asked me about other people. all these photographers that i admire did it until they dropped one way or the other.

that is really a great example. this is a funny example, but one photographer, 88 years old, has a room in an apartment from new york, comes down from canada every month and takes portraits. i am into it, you know? i'm probably going to do it -- charlie: until you can't do it anymore. annie: yeah, hopefully. charlie: when you put this to get there, what part of it are you the proudest of? annie: i didn't expect to like it as much as i did. it was such new work. it was done so fast that usually i have more time, like 1970-1990.

it wasn't as long of a time to look at the work and really understand it. and we literally in order to get the book out, we had to put it together by the seat of our pants, the seat of my pants come and basically i was all over the place about what should go in or go out and how many pages. i wanted it to be a smaller volume because you can't pick up the book after a certain point. a photographer's life is nine pounds. i kept waiting for some people to tell me to edit it. in the long run, your attention span -- no one looks at a book page by page. they go in the middle and find a spot, but in the long run, i am, you know, it was frightening for me not to have -- not journalism, but the more reportage type work.

i wanted to be clear it wasn't the photographers of life. all the books had different styles, and this is one style throughout. i am still trying to come to terms with it myself about what it looks like and what it is. annie: when have you been the most vulnerable? charlie: the financial thing was a long time coming. i just lived from the seat of my pants and just kind of went. i would do assignments and pay for them myself. i had no regard for money, had no regard for business, thought if you are an artist -- all the stupid things where you think you are not supposed to be engaged in that. well that is completely not happening anymore. you get a good kick in your

pants -- i have said this before, but if some white horse is going to ride in and save you, i just picked it up and work hard and understood my business so much more. things are better than ever in that regard. susan's illness, i did not really understand susan's illness that well. it was a great lesson about dying. charlie: what is the lesson about dying? annie: there are good deaths and bad deaths. susan wanted to live so much. she did not want to die. i wish i had, i don't know if anyone could have helped her. she was so determined to live you could not talk to her about dying. i and not too sure that was right in the long run.

the subsequent deaths of people who matter to me, like my father, they were beautiful deaths. my father died with my mother holding him, and my mother died has a family all around, so when someone first dies that is close to you, you don't know what you are doing. everyone treats death so differently. i regret i did not know what i was doing when susan -- i thought i was doing the right thing. i thought i was helping her, getting her out to seattle for the bone marrow, you know, i was setting up people coming in and out and making sure she had everything she needed. charlie: do think you will find that kind of love ever again? annie: you are not the first person to ask me that. it throws me. charlie: i know it does.

annie: i mean, i honestly don't think too many people can put up with me quite honestly because i work so hard. i have my children. i love my children. it is full on. between that, if someone wants to jump in without come i am interested. i don't know. who knows. -- jump in, i am interested. i don't know. who knows. charlie: thank you. annie: thank you, charlie. it is so good to see you. i mean that. charlie: thank you. ♪

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♪ >> emily chang, this is the best of bloomberg technology. we'll go over all of our top interviews. coming up, representatives from google, and twitter and facebook extend offers on russian interference in the 2016 and phillip -- election. plus, what's next? facebook's -- increases security spending. enough to avoid government la