ted, if you're doso done... complicated, so done... call now to enroll in a plan from unitedhealthcare, like aarp medicarecomplete. [sfx: mnemonic] announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. with politics and the special counsel's role in investigating the russian involvement in the last election. the focus is on paul manafort and richard gates. both pled not guilty. george papadopoulos pled guilty to lying to the fbi about his relationship with the russians.

with me is a reporter with the new york times. let's do the timeline. paul manafort joins the campaign he isngle delegates and out in august. all of this has to do with the campaign and this indictment has to do with his work in the ukraine. why is this relevant? >> before he joined the campaign, paul manafort was working abroad at the intersection of business and politics and would export american-style campaign consulting to the ukraine and do business with oligarchs in the ukraine and russia and he had these business ties. where this connects is, he was coming to the trump campaign and he was in contact with some of the oligarchs and the russian contact. it appears that he owed a lot of outstanding financial relationships with people in eastern europe and russia and that is the crux of

why there might be more here for the council and the reason he is in trouble is, as he was working for the ukraine, he was lying about working for the ukraine. if you are working for a foreign power, you have to register and he did not do that. he claimed that he was working it a center in london and turns out that he was running a lobbying campaign for the ukrainian political party. >> the indictment was detailed and it had bank accounts and they found that he had spent $850,000 in clothing in four years. who does this detail give pause to in the administration? question. if you are inside of the white house, this is terrifying. taxler has access to returns, he got bank accounts from cyprus that paul manafort had access to and he charted the money flows.

as we know, the trump family has business connections in russia and was trying to do deals with them and selling apartments to ralphie -- wealthy russians. was doing a lot of business with people who had money in russia and eastern europe and it is easy to understand that mueller has access to all that money flow and he will be able to see and track that. if anything suggests a running financial relationship between trump and some of these interest, it will show up. of range doese mueller have? but hes not that wide, is allowed to investigate crimes discovered during the investigation. he found that out during the course of investigation and there is a prosecution and trial set for next year.

host: it was leaked that there would be an indictment. , "whohe weekend, it was is it going to be?" a lot of people thought it would be michael flynn. do we know why it wasn't and were you surprised it wasn't flynn? >> i had money on manafort or gates and those three men are the lowest-hanging fruit in the investigation. was under federal investigation for some activities in eastern europe, the ukraine, and russia. michael flynn, we know he had not disclosed properly that he was working on behalf of a foreign government, turkey. that has been out there and it is on the ground for the prosecutors to look at. i am not surprised that there would be some mix of that and there are a bunch of sealed indictments that have not come out and we are all waiting to

see who is next. host: the name that nobody said was george papadopoulos. people.w to a lot of who is he the most concerning for? reporter: donald trump and jeff sessions. the reason is, you saw the first indictment come out with gates and manafort. said,tly, the white house it is not about the campaign and it is all -- a few hours later, here comes the papadopoulos guilty plea and it shows that this was a named foreign-policy adviser who sat in meetings with jeff sessions and a meeting with president trump and was trying to arrange meetings with russian interests and the russian government. host: the administration says he

is an intern. reporter: it is true, but we are seeing, with manafort, isn'tpoulos, clovis, who a guy who has a lot of expertise a sideign policy, is effect of the trump campaign and he could not get the best people, the top-shelf foreign policy people. he got carter page, a guy who claimed to be an oil executive, papadopoulos. this was not a heavy hitter and he is one of the five people that the campaign put on a form policy committee and he was empowered to work on behalf of the campaign to set foreign-policy. how we will find out is

much other officials knew about his interactions and conversations with russia. host: it also shines a light that jeff sessions "mi sremembered" again. >> he is towing a line on conversations with russian ambassadors and we are seeing a changing of the story and it will the interesting to see what the paper trail is. on whatll depend sessions can credibly say about what he knew about the conversation and what kinds of permissions papadopoulos had and what he was carrying back-and-forth, in terms of information, offers, and ideas. most people did not know about george papadopoulos.

he was and we knew he was in the circle. i think -- host: it didn't leak. muellerlls me that knows a lot that the media and the public do not. he knows a lot. there is material. i am familiar with paul manafort's business in the ukraine, but there was material in this indictment that i have never seen before and it was fascinating. you can get, when you are a prosecutor like him, you can get cyprus banking records. over hiscasted a veil activities and was lying about them. the papadopoulos part shows you that there are not many leaks coming out of the mueller operation. a lot of leaks are coming out of the feds. ship andning a tight

some shoe will drop next, but it is not there which. -- clear whihcch. >> they consider paul manafort a tes arerisk and he and ga under house arrest. reporter: what we know is that he had set up transactions in cyprus. really fascinating. in some ways, the indictment lays out paul manafort as a case to how wealthy americans hide their money. the trick is to park your money into offshore accounts and you bring onshore the things you want to pay. to avoid that, you have the offshore companies pay the bills for you to the vendors. whatever person is decorating

your house or somebody else. we saw, in great detail, how that works. the passports, i think we will hear more about them. why did he have three question mark sometimes, you get an extra passport because you are visiting israel and you want to visit an islamic country that does not like israel and you may want a second passport. once you have multiple passports, it is possible to use them in an interesting way to cloak or hide places you are visiting. you can use a passport to get to london and use another to get to cyprus and you can hide a lot about the movement until somebody bothers to check and compare the passports. i suspect that we will hear more about what the purpose of the three passports was and i do not think it was an accident that he lost one. host: they were not amused or

pleased that the lawyers went to the media. what do you think about the courtroom and how long we will be involved in the trial question mark >> manafort and gates art maintaining that this indictment is misleading and they have not done anything wrong and will fight it. my question is if the men have enough money left to spend on lawyers to fight this kind of a case. this will proceed on its own track. you will see a case that is built around tax evasion, money laundering, failure to disclose work for a foreign power and i will be focusing on and somening for whether, at point, the progress of this trial creates opportunities for or additional pressure for robert mueller to use to get these guys to tell him more about donald trump. is next in the

investigation? reporter: it is a tight ship. what i see, based on the public s, is an experienced prosecutor moving extraordinarily quickly, very fast. he indicted paul manafort within days of getting the records from cyprus. second, he is moving from the outside in. papadopoulos as a cooperating witness and it is possible that he was cooperating before the indictment was unsealed. there is a lot that george papadopoulos could be saying and we will find out if there were any conversations he had while wiretapped. that will be interesting to find out and i suspect we will learn more. >> what is a question that interests you?

>> the question i am really intrigued by is whether -- so, we know about two prongs of the russian effort. help the trump campaign by offering damaging information on hillary clinton to bolster his aside for various reasons. the other was the social media informational warfare campaign. facebook thousands of accounts and used them to divide the country and target voters. the open question that nobody has been able to answer is whether the efforts crossed there was anr exchange between the trump campaign with voter targeting and what the russian intelligence agencies were doing to go after american voters and that is a critical question. host: aside from all of this, the president's duties carry-on.

will the investigation have an impact on the trip? has. already he tweets about fake news and the investigation within minutes of his plans departure on the trip. excuse me. we see that hand, these trips are so busy for the president that some of his instincts to engage on twitter and to start fights get repressed in that time and we saw that in the middle east. aitter quieted down for couple of days and it is possible to see that. i am not really sure where he is -- i am not really sure if where he is affects mueller. >> thank you.

the social media ads paid for by russia were on display in capitol hill and they were shocking. representatives of facebook and google testified about russian attempts to influence the 2016 campaign and what should be done to prevent it from happening again. we are joined from san francisco where she covers the tech industry for "the economist." what did the senators want

answered? arerter: the senators interested in the extent of the russian campaign and they are trying to get their heads around this. evasive andnts were they underplayed the threat that russia had manipulated americans and they came forward and said that they found evidence of fake accounts and advertisements that were directed at americans that were seen and might have influenced votes. so, the senators were pressing on tech giants for details how widespread the manipulation was and the other question was what giants would do to make sure that nothing like this happened again in the 2018 election. >> did they offer any details? they showed us some

of the advertisements and fake accounts for the first time and there were fascinating one. there was hillary clinton dressed up as the devil battling "if you wantsaid, jesus to win it, like this." if you engaged, you can be targeted for more material. americans, a huge -- 150age of americans million americans, a huge percentage of americans, were exposed to this and we saw the extent of the russian messaging and some of the specific messages, which i think were surprising in their directness. in watching the hearing, the tech giants and the senators talking past one another and said "we are a platform," wh

of is the "i don't recall" the tech industry. >> it is like when the nra says "guns don't kill people, people kill people." they don't want any responsibility for how the true are being used. they are very wary. i think they are being cautious and they have good reason to be. you look at how international platforms are used and they get takedown request from the authoritarian governments or requests on information about users, turkey, egypt. so, they have to be careful about setting a precedent of complying with government or being responsible for speech on their platform. they say they are not the typical media company.

where the response is insufficient is, facebook, especially, has done an audit and found a few thousand advertisements, they say, that and that for in rubles is kind of the above went -- the equivalent of investigating crimes in which the door was left open. looking for rubles is insufficient and something that didn't happen was a complete audit of all advertisements that facebook and twitter offer. they have complicated tools for companies like coca-cola and unilever. in this case, they are downplaying their ability to do a full audit.

host: senator feinstein said, you do something or we will. should they be afraid of that? what could congress do? reporter: there is frustration and the general counsel was there, not the ceo, and trying to be humble deflected the pointed questions and the frustration bubbled over. when it comes to action, i think that there is a real disconnect between the rhetoric and a feeling that america has been giants. by large tech so, right now, there are a couple of things being considered. ed thata bill propos

requires transparency with political advertisements and bringing digital ads of to the same standards that others are held to and the giants are saying that they are in favor of transparency and they are going to implement more transparency and disclosure. they are not quite sure about details of regulation and proposed regulation and whether or not they would support that. this week, we saw the proposal for tax reform that would be highly favorable to the tech giants and lower the corporate rate. on one side, you hear these angry and disappointed claims coming from the senators and you have the reality that there is not that much that is being suggested that looks close to passing that could change their fortune or behavior. let's look at the optics of

what we saw. we did not see familiar faces. one editor of the columbia journal of review said that the tech giants will show up for burning man and viewing parties, but not senate hearings. we did not see zuckerberg or jack dorsey. >> they did not show up and mark zuckerberg was at headquarters earningsn valley on an call and announcing record seeing and revenue and the facebook share price surge. it was a day of dissonant realities, if you will. you are looking at the tech terests, not submitting the ceo to hostile questions and giving journalists the ability to talk about zuckerberg or jack dorsey

humbling in front of senators. they made a right choice in sending general counsel's there sels there. question out of the that there is another hearing where the bosses are forced to show, if we get more investigations and disclosures in the extent of the interference. there could be a second act. something you talked about is the isolation of the tech giants. linedon't feel in with the democratic or republican party. what happened with them being on an island by themselves? industry thatn

depended on the democrats for sympathy because they were very forward and a lot had been but democratsts, feel betrayed by the tech platforms and they feel at the russians influenced the 2016 in elections for the worse because of a lack of oversight and fake accounts and the democrats have moved away forom tech. the republicans are not as gulation as they were and it is playing well to criticize tech. you see a elizabeth warren on the left and abandon on the right talking about regulating tech or breaking up big tech. ash in washington

and it is unclear that either side really wants to own the tech industry and work on their behalf. host: they are not doing a rope-a-dope. they are spending money on lobbyists. sense, they're are well-positioned and these are ith a lote companies w to spend. what microsoft did not do well and why they saw a lot of backlash in washington is that they did not manage the washington relationship early and google and facebook set of large offices and we see amazon doing the same. they are in a difficult position for a few reasons. are+ diverse and

some companies are coming out in support of issues and others are against it. you see that with what is being proposed and it would hold tech companies responsible for sex trafficking that occurs and a tech giant from the valley is in support of it and you see a disconnect amongst the giants problem is that they have to lobby a lot of different government agencies. where pharmaceuticals, you know that you have to be on top of the fda and what they are considering, tech is regulated , in therent groups and past, they have really struggled to focus their attention to avoid pushback and manage their

reputation. host: to circle back to what we were first talking about, this any kind of go to false information on these platforms and that is the big issue. >> the issue on our cover this bad is if social media is for democracy and there was optimism that platforms like helpook and others would new voices in democratic movements that were not possible to hear through established media and we did see some of that and i think that we are seeing the dark side of

social media and we are seeing how these can be used for hate speech and i think the big picture is if social media will bring us together or pull us apart and if social media firms will take responsibility so that they can be used for good and not evil. host: thank you. >> thank you for having me.

he is one of the most celebrated writers in the last 50 years. the books include "slouching towards bethlehem" and "magical thinking." she has a documentary about her nephew. here is the trailer. >> the first notebook was given to me by my mother and it was suggested i amuse myself by writing down my thoughts and did not have a clear picture of how to. d-- to do it. i had a sense i wanted this to continue. >> incredible. extraordinary. >> the writing grabbed the reader. >> she is writing about all sorts of things. >> i have always found that it

is less scary. >> she wanted to get in on that. >> my husband, my daughter, and me, we got out. >> everybody -- >> everything seemed to be going well. >> it is a failure to plan for misfortune. >> i got a call that said that something terrible happened. john died. john. grief is the hardest thing about.e

she did it as a reporter. >> it was a coping mechanism, as it turned out. >> she does things that nobody ever did before. >> incredible. >> it changed my perception in a way that was not expected. >> she has earned distinction as one of the most celebrated writers of her generation. >> i didn't plan it like that. it is like life. i am pleased to have griffin back at the table. what made you do this? film andmaking a short i was asked to do a trailer to accompany the promotion for blue knights and we had a great time doing it and she read her book

and she loved being involved in this process. at some point during this time, i had realized that there had never been a documentary about her by her own choice and i pushed my luck and asked if i could do it and if she would agree. it took her all of -- she said ok and that was it. i said, oh my god. this is a big one. charlie: why did she never become a filmmaker? >> like directing? ephron. like nora >> just wanted to make sure. she started as a reviewer many years ago. i would love to have seen that. the actors would have to lean in

to hear her direction. charlie: exactly right. you set out to make this. help me. you read everything. >> i did. charlie: you dived into the deep end. >> i said that this is a subject that is beloved and people have personal connections and is influencing writers to become writers and people moving to new york and i knew that i had to get this right. was read thing i did everything she had written in chronological order, starting with her first article on self-respect. when we get the book for christmas inscribed and we would

read the book, but never in one sitting. are still your family and you don't think of literary references while you are talking to them. so, i had that perspective of actually seeing the woman who deepy aunt digging throughout her profession to find out. charlie: she said that she writes to see what she inks. the fascinating thing on self-respect, which is like a moral tome, she writes about living a life and accepting the consequences and living in the bed that you made. it was written when she was 21

years old and it is wise and the person who wrote that is virtually unchanged and came to new york as someone for informed. she won a contest and you could go to paris or new york and she chose to go to new york. charlie: we benefited from the fact. was she happy with her dissipate in? >> it took me six years to make it and the entire year would go by without her asking how it was going. it took six years. it was aoting and process of stopping and

starting. that i had just sat down with david and had a great conversation and he sends his love. she would say, ok. say -- she didn't i am glad that you talked to david. >> you know, she, i think that she -- i am not even sure that she thought that i would finish this. that every day until the money came in from netflix and i showed it to her and i showed a cut i never would have shown. just wanted to give her the opportunity to say stop right now.

charlie: she wrote both journalism and novels. did she feel like one was more than the other? >> she started as a nonfiction writer and she loves stories in novels and she writes and does not know where the novel will go. charlie: we're sitting here and talking about her like she isn't there. quick she is probably sitting at home and watching television. her interest is always particularly strong in essays and nonfiction and she wrote. do?ob silver -- what did he others played roles in this world. who -- theymebody

said, how would you like to go to salvador and write about this brutal civil war and she lept to it. from reading the early essays, she knew that she would make a beautiful transition into writing about american politics. it is not that she didn't have any interest, but she didn't think that would be her strong suit. >> was her strong suit something else? hert was more personal with confronting everything from thesea mother and insights that she would have that others would relate to. he saw that you could write

cheney. it was a devastating piece. intocharacter insight deciphering the message that politicians do not want you to hear and what the media is really saying with the underlying message. that turned out to be her and she wrotent about salvador. >> how does she differ from -- butardly an expert on her, i think that she is more assertive and more and is on an equal plane. quieter and i think she

is very comfortable and that whichothers talk to her, is why she likes to write about musicians. and let it all unfold morrison was not the most effusive speaker, a difficult personality, but they would meet joan and open up. charlie: how long were they married? 1960.y got married in charlie: you would see them eating and i would watch this and asked if they were talking to each other and they always were. >> they would carry the conversation on. were always interested

in each other and there is another thing about them being in a restaurant and people never believed that they were not john was -- when elias-- thbe at he would move. charlie: there was a time where they thought they would divorce. >> we find that out. sheas a famous piece that wrote while during an oncoming tsunami in honolulu.'

johns there and she and are mulling whether they should split and she makes this equation between the seismic shifts outside of the window of the hotel room and what is going on between them. members, had no idea. it had always been one word. >> they read everything each other wrote. >> john edited that piece. she wrote it. patty like that? -- how do you like that? did you think that paragraph was good? i am not so sure. it is incredible. >> she found out she was going to have quintana and got a call

from the hospital. >> it was like a call out of the blue. i think they were not really thinking about it a lot and they wanted to have a child and could not. theof the friends knew gynecologist at the hospital and this guy called and said, we have this baby. they got in the car right away andtake to the baby up drove home. john bonded with quintana, a two-day old infant. >> john dies. >> heart attack. he had always had heart issues with his "ticker," as he would call it. about it and he

was fascinated with the valves and the arteries. he would write about it beautifully. he compared it to music and the symphony. quintana was, admitted to the hospital with septic shiock and it was very serious. the trauma of his worry for quintana brought the unexpected heart attack. life changes in an instant. charlie: this is from the show. about "the year of magical thinking." here it is. this is the first book you wrote without john. >> yeah.

i had written some books before he had died. book.s the first my first novel was before we were married. charlie: he would read everything. >> yeah. yeah. miss.ething i he would give me a sense of being safe. if he said it was ok, i would proceed. if he said it was not, i would rewrite. charlie: you would do the same. >> yeah. you sort of rely on that. this happening,

somebody said you can rely on us and develop new readers. it is not the same. andhis is clip number three she talks about learning the rhythm of writing. this is 1992. charlie: goodness gracious. >> i am not a touch-typist. to type myself how sentences over and over again. charlie: looking for? .> how they work they appeared to be simple and you would come away from a string of them with a feeling of whatever he had in mind that he wanted you to feel and there was something going on in the ontences and what was going was the withholding in the

information. it has to do with a rhythm. charlie: you got it. >> she described what she is famous for, withholding. learning to do that by typing hemingway sentences is kind of ingenious. charlie: there is a famous story and i do not know if it is true or not. hunter thompson had the public therey and somebody was and said, what are you doing? he was reading shakespeare. he said, i am trying to get the rhythm. >> i want to believe that. something really bloody, too. i'm sure.

charlie: the death of the daughter? >> quintana? ok her weeks to recover from the first visit from the hospital after the septic shock and the funeral was not going to happen until she was able to attend and she withd to go to california jerry, and they were newly married. frail andready quite had been out of the hospital. the airplane lands in los angeles and she hits her head and goes into a coma and it requires a great deal of physical therapy to get past and she of that coma

had toa wheelchair and learn how to walk and move and a part of her just started to break down and she just really did not want to be around. >> what do you want us to come away with? >> i want people to feel like they witnessed a life that was lived from somebody who came the descendents of homesteaders. charlie: they came out with the donner party. >> you don't take shortcuts. it is a morality that she has

has outlivedshe all of her friends for a reason and is from strong western stock. charlie: you hold her arm and it yet you know that there is a strong person within her. movie and john wayne that soul. -- in that soul. charlie cole and all that stuff from the west. -- charlie: all of that stuff from the west. >> i would not have seen that, if i had not made the movie. she was my aunt. i have heard her described as

but-like, -- bird-like, eears on the inside. -- fierc on the inside. charlie: the title is "the center will not hold." about know, she wrote using that in "slouching towards her most famous essay from the 1960's and she was writing -- everybody else was writing about peace and love and the hippie movement and riding around in full to eigen -- in volkswagen bugs. she is looking that families that have fallen apart, runaway children, the fabric that had been strong in the 1950's when

she was growing up and before. the 1960's had come along and society had started to fall apart at the seams that whole decade. it was one of massive chaos. charlie: thank you. avionngk you for h me. charlie: thank you for joining us. we will see you next time.

yvonne: 8:00 a.m. in hong kong. we are live. i am yvonne man. welcome to "daybreak asia." president trump heads for seoul on the second leg of his asian tour. talking tough, but coming up short, trump leads japan empty-handed on what he calls unfair trade practices. betty: and from bloomberg's global headquarters, i am betty liu in new york, where it is just after 7:00 p.m. on this monday. it could be a cruising $105 billion takeover fight. softbank watching its