♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." charlie: kenneth branagh is here. he has shifted from directing to writing on stage. he won an award for best director and best actor for his the adaptation in henry fifth. his latest is murder on the orient express. here is the trailer. ♪

>> would you mind if i join you? you are the world famous detective. innocent? are >> you are funny. a passenger has died. he was murdered. the murderer is on the train knewus now and everyone i -- everyone of you is a suspect. so let us catch our killer. a man was rummaging around my cabin in the middle of the night. >> you are certain it was a man? >> i know it -- what it is like to have a man in my bedroom. >> pick a number. >> the real killer is right

here. it is one of you people. i'm sleeping here, where everyone can see me and i can see everyone. who picked up the knife? >> you can trust no one. no one. charlie: i am pleased to have kenneth branagh back at this table. with all that you are doing, why this? kenneth: it is a fantastically gripping tale, agatha christie keeps alive the prospect that 15 characters might have performed this violent act of murder, which keeps you. i read it when i was an readscent and my father crime fiction. this opportunity came up and i my sense was a much darker and more emotional tale underneath that very cloud pleasing --

crowdpleasing murder mystery. inrlie: the film was made 1974. kenneth: and a great movie it was. i had a great pleasure of knowing him a little in his later life and he said very clearly he wanted to make a romp with that movie. beautifully done it was too. allowed us to go in a different direction because there is a big cinematic invitation to the spectacle. agatha christie's landscape is exotic locations. we start in jerusalem, go to istanbul and head into the out. then it turns into a parlor game and to my surprise, it goes deep and dark in a -- and a psychological mystery unfolds which has a very powerful dirty revenge story. charlie: that is where you wanted to go? kenneth: yeah, because inside is the story of how human loss, or what shakespeare calls the

poison of deep grief, can do to apparently civilized people. andan awake the primal certainly something very shocking occurs and that sort of quiver underneath these apparently gentile stories with istic pleasing characters the dynamic. it is quite the tension and great fun for actors. poirot, is he at the center of this more than the other from? kenneth: the genius of christie is she brings him in and he backs away because part of what he does is allow people to underestimate him. ludicroushis mustache . in our case, a fairly sizable one and they find his accent one they can condescend to. both of these things. he can perk -- speak perfect english, but he chooses not to.

it is good that people underestimate you if they think you are a silly foreigner. ae character says he was perfectly ridiculous little man with a stupid mustache. he is easily a retired hairdresser. something to this condescension and while he sits behind that weighty mask of a mustache -- >> so the mustache is a disguise? kenneth: it is, and it is a sort of superpower, but it is also declaration of confidence and the assurance and -- assertion of his difference. it is evidence of his incredible vanity, to which he would say, so? i like the mustache, i spend time preening the mustache. quite the tool in his interaction with people. charlie: he wanted to both direct and play him? andlie: directors

detectives are both seeking the truth. endlessly, he is in situations where he is looking for the body language under the forensic days of this investigation; it gives away whether people are lying or not. whether you are directing the wonderful group of actors -- i found myself staring so carefully because i had the chance to be at this master class with people i very much admired. the setting in and of itself was spectacular, but we wanted the acting to be very intimate, room sized. there was an opportunity for a great kind of subtlety. these are author of bread actors. people of tremendous command of their technique and personally, i find in life whatever it is people do, when they are expert at it, it is really breathtaking. said they also read this. they took this opportunity and they felt they couldn't let down

their fellow actors. it was so good. i am going to bring my a game. kenneth: i think that was very sweet and particularly true. we had a bit of a den mother in judy dench, i could see a number of the actors coming up to her curtsying.eing -- she is the most down-to-earth individual, but she had an aura that they responded to. i really got the sense that they understood and i did eventually that part of the event of a people canthis where get entertainment a thousand ways to come to the cinema, to have all those people in the remap the same time, playing in scenes where the camera does not cut and where it begins at one end of the carriage with a close-up of willem dafoe and michelle pfeiffer and penelope cruz, and the guy in the back

you saw turns out not to be the guy in the back of johnny depp. they were all there and the energy and pace of the scene is created by their interaction, and they are all what clint to asod once referred fast startup actors. incredible intuition, so you want to catch them as fast as you can. rehearse as little as possible and just catch the happening. charlie: knowing they could deliver. biteth: exactly, it was a -- i love sport, and watching athletes either prepping for a big event or coping with the pressure of a big event. a major or golf tournament or a wimbledon final or olympic event, and it is fascinated to watch people in warm-ups, how much they do -- how little they do. charlie: i am fascinated by the idea of a major golf event,

know nothing of cricket -- >> neither do i. charlie: especially an individual sport, a boxing match. the ideal to which these people play is so far removed from anything you can imagine. the talent is so extraordinary. i am constantly asking -- and it is so -- if you reach that level, there is also a sense of one -- the edge one has over the other is mental. kenneth: i agree, and it is fascinating to see at work. they are at that high level of performance capability and that tiny percentage has to do with the way they can enjoy or find a way to enjoy. the best of that happens when people are in some sort of zone or grace, rather than fighting or muscling it. thinge: there is also a

in sports can't playing within yourself, so you are not going at 100% because you want to .eserve to go beyond 100% you are playing within your game. even if people don't understand in those well put terms, but they intuit it. these art forms or whatever it might be, making there isf furniture -- some potential and they can move and react very swiftly, it is a very compelling and attractive quality. charlie: what is your take on him and how he changes? kenneth: he begins the story in this film declaring that there is right, there is wrong, there is nothing in between. wants to be a moral absolutist and hopes and believes if he can control the world in that way and have criteria for judging it, then

life for a man like him to whom in balance and chaos is needs order.- he he tries to impose it and dish it out when he discovers a violent crime. but by the end of this story, what lies between good and bad he discovers occupies a moral gray zone that means he has to take on board the pain of other who may have arrived at some appalling, of tremendous personal pain, that he may be forced to empathize with or understand in a different kind of way. it isn't as simple as he thought it might he or hoped it could be. so in a way, that is distressing to see and he carries a kind of tenderness and sensitivity of soul that wishes the world could be as it should be, not as it is.

for him, he says in seeing it that way quicke -- charlie: there is a world wariness about them -- world wariness about them? the worldt makes almost unbearable, but it is good in the detection of crime. it makes him a romantic soul, melancholic, but he is belgian and a delightful eccentric. charles dickens and being tickled by it, and very much likes puddings and deserts of all kinds and in those moments, he is like a child. charlie: who has influenced you as a film director? quite recently and literally, i had an experience with christopher nolan, who directed dunkirk. itson celluloid with

dimensional texture and immersive quality that it brings. other people i have admired are --ert altman, sidley mac -- we discussed high-level performance, they are super prepared, they have brilliant technical skills and they can dance with it. they can lift off and i saw christopher nolan do that with "dunkirk to cope incredible knowledge about filmmaking, but also about his subject. out, butt inside and he puts itself -- himself in a situation where there are so many variables, planes and boats and tanks and thousands of -- therefore he was able to, as it were, worked with the prepared piece but deal with the chaos. of lifehave that quiver

underneath something that has also been beautifully prepared. at that stage, you have a great collision between the preparation of a great artist and the living in the moment of the same artist. charlie: someone told me he is totally immersive. kenneth: yeah, the focus is wonderful to see. watching,im was like i imagine, a great painter in front of the canvas and it is riveting because the power of concentration is striking. you feel as though you are seeing a beam come out of their eyes. also, he never sits down. all day. the set it is like he is in a trance. charlie: and everything from costumes to dialect -- >> he is the first director i have worked with who has been in a costume fitting -- you receive pictures and trust everyone else -- not that he doesn't trust them, but just there. thing. very bespoke very impressive and particular. thing,: directing is one

acting is another. what is the secret to doing them both at the same time? what do you let go, if anything? specific helpe with my associate and another friend. they are there, they were there at various times on this picture to say no, yes, more nonetheless. -- more, less. i prepared all of this underneath a seat -- theater season we were doing where i was on stage every night. it sounds a bit mad, but you are so warmed up imaginatively -- and i believe in practice, because what that does is get rid of all of the superficial -- i used to call it nerves, but now i call it excitement because it is a more useful and positive way of thinking about it. , because of directing, have the luxury of being able to

, in this case the other brilliant actors, but also of put yourself in front of the camera when you are not quite ready. i taught film close-ups at the beginning of shooting a particular scene, because trying to capture that rawness. i don't want to be too prepared. it is like the italians in architecture. they want something imperfect. it is a little more uncomfortable to do, but the goal is to present life and in this case, if you are uncomfortable and prevent -- presenting a murder mystery, some of that tension is helping. charlie: in terms of over preparation, to stimulate your spontaneity. other people have argued to me in terms of this kind of thing, that you don't want to know too much. lot, youto know a

don't want to know too much. you don't want to be hostage to what you know. you want what you know to inspire you. kenneth: i agree, and i think finding that balance between how much you prepare in order to achieve liftoff -- particularly with the mysterious process of performance where particularly my experience is in the classics where if you have been able to do that with a technical challenging medium like shakespeare, you learn, you apply all sorts of intellectual rigor, but you're hoping ultimately when you liftoff, the part will play you because you understand that in the mind and in the art of the great poetic writer, there is something beyond words. there is something beyond intellect that he plugs into that you offer a chance for an audience to experience, but you are merely the vessel. you might flatter yourself that you bring yourself to it -- ring

it ising to it, but thrilling. it had ai thought great star and director, why do you think dunkirk resonated? kenneth: in a way, it is a kind of mystery. going into that, no movie starts -- >> tell us the story of dunkirk. it is an evacuation from the mainland. of 1914, basically the british expeditionary force had been driven back to the french coast with a lot of of the french army, as well, and the goal was to evacuate them from the campaign. the germans had overrun western europe with blitzkrieg and running to belgium, so

essentially, the entire british army was stuck on a long stretch of beach and ready to be picked and theerman air forces incursion of the land forces. in a brief and barak kilis -- andthose 400,000 men miraculous spell, those 400,000 men were rescued by the navy. in that gap that was literally how close boats could get to the shore, nearly 800 small boats from the u.k. at the request of the government came across the channel numerous way and these were in some cases, a canoe, coming across to get some of these boys. it was amazing, as churchill called it, and amazing deliverance. and a miracle, even though you would call it specifically a retreat or as the germans would call it, a defeat. i suppose --

>> the darkest moment gave the brits. theeth: it encapsulated universal idea that however dark the time may be, if there is a determination not to give up or to put one foot in front of the other, or to trust and put your , as itn basic humanity were, your fellows came to meet you and lend a hand, that is a beautiful idea that you need not give up because the rest of humanity won't give up on you. much success with this. murder on the orient express. kenneth branagh. we will be back with a moment. stay with us. ♪

♪ george saunders is here, largely hailed as the master of the short story. early this year, he released his first novel, "lincoln in the bardot." and the bardot is a luminous feet of generosity and humanism. it is a very pleasing thing to watch a writer you have enjoyed for years reach a higher level of achievement. i am pleased to have george saunders. tell us about winning the booker prize. you don't know. george: i have been getting the message that i shouldn't get my

hopes up. charlie: last year was the first time an american had ever won. kenneth: i received my dinner and was focused on applauding when someone else won. it was a nice night and surprising. charlie: did you have to give a speech? kenneth: being a good southside catholic, i had a prepared just in case. charlie: what did you tell them? kenneth: i talked a little about the historical moment we are in and the inclination in time of difficulty is to demonize the other, when in fact there isn't any such thing. the other, if you look at it in a literary way, the other is just us on a different day. olsen,d the great tillie who had that great short story in which she says of the character's daughter that she hopes the daughter will just understand that she is not helpless like the stress under the iron.

-- dress under the iron. those of us who are concerned can reassure ourselves with the idea that we are not helpless or alone. through literature and intellectual engagement, we can actually hold each other up in a difficult time, regardless of your political inclination. literature is a force for communication and compassion and a time like this is when we needed the most. charlie: to have as much compassion as we have in difficult circumstances or give beport to others we feel may in the same place we are? kenneth: i think both. the latter, the people who are being crushed a little underfoot with this new right-wing movement, those of us who aren't in that category need to be especially attentive. but also just as we make our way in the world, for me, literature has always been a way of softening borders between people. concepts and

complicating them with characters. any of us could use that in a world that is kind of dominated by what i would consider a fairly shallow and very pervasive form of social media in which you tend to think of the other person as a invisible anonymous other, who is in opposition to you. literature turns it around and says the person you think is your enemy, regarded with enough affection, time and care and love, will be seen to be very similar to you, even if they are quite different in the world, we emanate from the same root. to me, this is a time when maybe toertain cultural a tendency treat our indulgence is called into question. -- we think most deeply about the road when we are engaged in the world of art. charlie: you are best known to write short stories.

george: i slipped up. charlie: this is an idea you have had for a while. george: over 20 years. i heard in the 1990's that lincoln had entered the crypt and held his son's body. he was 11:00 -- 11, 12, he died of typhoid. good one for someone to write, but not me. job is to artist's know your limit and i was carving out a little place for myself and there was no intersection between what i could do and what the book would require. over the years, i just got older , kind of felt like -- well, i have lived as much as anybody and in some way, those circles started to intersect. charlie: so why not? george: and fact, i even said may be better. it, you don't want

to leave anything on the table and you don't want to get the point i was kind of at where it scared me so much i almost turned away from the challenge. then you are kind of done for the rest of your life as an artist. it was a harrowing period where this was hard and it might not work, but in the sake of future work, you have to give it a try. charlie: you decided to do it through the vehicle of monologue. george: yeah, a former student of mine wrote me a letter and said if you ever wrote a novel, -- novel, it would be in the form of monologue. when he said that, i got excited. yeah, that could be due -- good. with lincoln and a book like this, you are trying to find a way in that isn't done on arrival. it has a little potential in it, maybe a little self confusion. is, i'm notling sure this is going to work and this monologue form made it to the very end not at all a

foregone conclusion. charlie: all the way to the end, you weren't sure. george: right, that was one of the funny things about a novel is you really don't know, because it doesn't go into the world until you are done. with a story, you publish it along the way and there is feedback. with this book too, i don't know if it is difficult, it certainly has a narrow entry point. the first 30 pages are kind of disorienting by design. i wasn't sure if people would take the gamble with me and if they would find at the end that it paid off. that is the thing i was least certain about. charlie: and historical characters, lincoln, his wife, his two suns -- >> some other real people. charlie: there is a dinner at the white house? george: right, there was a famous party the lincolns had -- one of the things that drew me to this in the first place was a

heartbreaking idea that the lincolns were going to have this big reception to save some money and right before the day, willie and his brother got sick and the doctor said, well, we think it will be ok. no ahead so they did and willie got worse that night and would downhill a couple weeks later. he could probably hear the .arine band from upstairs just every parent's nightmare that you did something to hasten 's -- what kept coming up in my mind was this weird dilemma and that we pretty much thing designed to love one another in that we find so much meaning in it. in my darkest hour, i think what matters is what i love. so that is fine, and you look up from that and realize the other

un-negotiable truth of our life is that we end, and it seems a little hard to reconcile. this book is set on the night when lincoln is tried to dust trying to do just that. he cannot deny that he loves his yet, life goes on and he has to try to leave the country out of this war. charlie: what is the definition of bardo? george: it is the tibetan word for this living state. lincoln himself is in one of having to quickly transition out of grief into a more functional state. charlie: he thought the war was going to be over quickly. george: he did. i think everyone did. the battle of fort donaldson is oh, people kind of went thousands of dead, no clear

winners, and it will go on for a long time. charlie: you said about capturing the character of writing when you were lincoln, it was part you, part him. george: one of the reasons i delayed was because who was going to write -- who wants to write lincoln? then you realize as a crass, you are not really writing lincoln -- as a craftsperson, you are not really writing lincoln. you are writing a father, a husband, a person assuming different postures at different times in the evening. i just read all his speeches so i can get some of his rhythm in my head and later discarded as needed. you just say here is what i need lincoln to be, here is what i hope lincoln was. and the situation, when you say to yourself who was lincoln, you

find yourself bringing out the best in you. in your own self regard, the best moments you have had, the moments when you felt most love and most generous, those are the moments you ascribe to him. a way of saying forget all the other guys you are, can you summon up lincoln three minutes a day. charlie: you spent a lot of time preparing to do that. you spent five years of heavy research, didn't you? george: my motto is you kind of imagine you had a hopper over your head and you put everything in that you can about the historical period, everything about lincoln, and that the critical moment when you are writing, you say you are not going to worry about any of that. my job as a fiction writer is to make a dramatic machine. if something true will help, i will use it. if something fabricated will help, i will use that.

the weird thing about fiction is that there is not a right answer except whatever will cause the drama and emotion to heighten is the right answer. i would write the next day at the white house, it it allgot boring, so happens in one night. charlie: having completed it, how does that make you feel? obviously good. i not do this did earlier? it was a mountain i could always climb, i'm glad i did it? george: from the time i was first writing, i noticed that if you got phrase or criticism, good luck or bad luck, the best way to handle it was if it's good, enjoy it for about a

minute, if it's bad, we for a couple minutes -- weep for a couple of minutes, and then try to fold it in the next book. braver inhelps me be the . one of the nice things about this book was to take a chance, both in the form and may be broadening the emotional range and having some of the world get it. this might not say much for my self-esteem, but when i get praise, it makes me think i could try something harder. the main thing now is it's a wonderful memory, and note to self, try something even weirder. reality turning to politics. you wrote of trump supporters. where is this anger coming from? it's viral and trump is typhoid mary. now two separate

ideological countries, left and right, and speaking different languages, the lines between us down. how do we get the lines back up? aorge: and that was year-and-a-half ago. charlie cole and has not gotten better. george: two things i think about . one is do not despair. you are walking down the street and people still have their matters. their world is being held together by kindness and decency every day. the second thing we have to do is take a look at social media. if i go and read toni morrison for four hours and watch my mind and my body afterwards, that i go and get on social media for four hours, watch my mind and body afterwards, two almost different species are working there. if we take it and multiply it by 20 million or whatever, it's not surprising that our communication is getting a little abrupt and anxious and

agitated and that our the is -- y isbusy -- our empath receding. i do not know what the answer is. i don't think the internet is going back in the box, but i have been thinking about myself and my own spiritual life and in mission in this world in which peoples matters are worse, in which people feel free to appear anonymously and insult each other. i would not go to a party like that. people in costumes coming up and saying the rudest thing they can think of and when they go home and take the mask off, they are actually not that person. charlie: it's the anonymity? george: i think it really is. somehow when someone tells you you are anonymous, some urge to be very judgmental and harsh, but that's not actually the totality of who those people are, so we make a mistake if we think the virtual world is as real as the real world.

it is not. charlie cole it was part of your learning experience in writing -- if i remember, you wanted to and whoeveringway else and in a sense figure out what they were doing, and then you figured out what i have to do to find my own doing. george: i was an engineer, so my let mepproach was diagram hemingway plus sentences, see why he is having this effect on me. after a comically long apprenticeship, i realize that is not the way it works. for me, it has to do with the person saying there is a out there reading me just a smart as i am, just as worldly, just as goodhearted, can i keep her on the line, and you do that by respecting her intelligence at every turn, which turns into a lot of editing moves when can do and a lot of stances one can interact to ensure it -- to assure the person that you care .bout them and respect them

it haunts you. you make a kindness speech, you can never rob a bank again. at that point i was 50 or something, and what do i really regret? not much in terms of mistakes or bad decisions, but i did regret had out ofmes when i anxiety or self protection or my listeners had been unkind to somebody. i would stand behind that. surely: fisher resonated. it went viral. sure resonated. it went viral. george: it did. that was nice. but it's not just being sweet. i don't think that's it. it seems to be sort of a gateway virtue. say i want to be kind today. the example i use

is you go to a copy shop and see the police that has been crying. i am here to be kind -- the a has-step -- the barist been crying. you have to be there and really watch her and see what she might need. that is a lifetime job. charlie: i think the most important thing is you have had the thought. george: yes, that's right. charlie: her condition resonated with you. it may produce questions. a quandary as to how to reach touched by there emotion of another human being. : she would at some point at least noticed that. you noticed once you say are going to be kind, that is a

conceptual agenda you have, and if that agenda overrides the moment, you could make a mistake. if you are so intent on doing kindness, that you stop watching can maketly, then you a mistake and i think in our political life, there is a conceptual agenda we carry around if i only do x, i will never be wrong. that is actually enforced -- inverse morality, i think. when we have our ideological banners, liberal or conservative on our hat, it has the effect of blocking out the actual data and cause us to act less mindfully or kindly. charlie: was there a time when you realized absurd is a -- wasrd is a -- absurdism really realism? george: yes. it was during that apprenticeship moment we talked about, and a list around the world and said what is absurd

about life as we think we are in control and we lived to have control but the world is always screwing us. to me, that is the definition. a guy has just don't want a literary award walking down the steps taking highly of himself, and he goes down. that is comedy, absurdity, and realism. charlie cole and who decided on the cover? george: a wonderful designer name chelsea manning from random house. : it is so great to have you here. thank you. george: always such a pleasure. thank you so much. back in a moment. stay with us. ♪

charlie: benjamin hagerty is here. he's better known by his stage name, macklemore. one of only two wrappers to ever earn a diamond single. he is back with his first solo album in 12 years. it is called gemini. here is a look at his latest single. ♪

charlie: i am pleased to have him at this table for the very first time. thank you. good to have you here. >> great to be here. charlie tell me the difference : in rap and hip-hop. macklemore: rap is something that you do, and element of the culture. hip-hop is under the umbrella. rap is an element. it is one of the elements of hip-hop. charlie: you are a rap artist or hip-hop artist are both?

macklemore: both. i rap and am a hip-hop artist. i think if it resonates with you it is part of who you are. charlie: when did it first pump your heart? macklemore: seven years old. it was the first music that gave me goosebumps. charlie: tell me how you developed. just doing it? macklemore: just doing it. i did not have some crazy talent. i had work ethic. it was a high school group of five of us. i was definitely the worst in the group at the beginning. the worst. charlie: i love this story. >> i was by far and away i used , to get on stage and screen, lose my voice -- and scream, lose my voice after a song, had no breath control. i figured i wasn't great because i would listen back to the tapes and say these guys, their verses are better than mine. so i bought a karaoke tape deck from a thrift shop and

practiced and practiced and stayed in my room for years practicing. charlie: when did somebody finally tell you, hey, you are good? macklemore: i knew i was getting good when i wanted to listen to myself. i wanted to listen to my songs. it is one thing to do it, but i want to hear that song that i made. when you find that pocket or your voice or find out who you are as a person and that is translating to a record, that is when you realize, ok. i have something here. charlie: tell me about what -- white privilege. macklemore: the most challenging song i had ever written, i believe it is around nine minutes. we wanted to take the listener on a visual journey, starting at a black lives matter protest rally.

and go through different vantage points and perspectives. try to talkral, about race and systematic oppression and white supremacy in nine minutes is impossible. we wanted to start the place of the rally and come from kind of my perspective of showing up to that, not knowing if i can say at the time black lives matter. this is when the term first got introduced to the public. i introduced it coming after the non-indictment of michael brown. do i start there? i'm in my own head. it takes the listener through this protest in different perspectives. charlie: is there an element of your music being socially conscious? macklemore: absolutely. ,f something is on my heart resonating with me on a personal level, i am going to attempt to put that in a song. i read an article my mom sent me

about a kid getting bullied in school who committed suicide. i wanted to touch on that. i tried to write from the perspective of that kid. ryan lewis, my producer, said no. that is not your story to tell but you do have a story to tell in this. charlie: and your story was? >> my story was growing up in a gay area of seattle, washington capitol hill. having two gay uncles. i thought because my uncles were gay and being good at art, that made me get. -- gay. just being a kid. talking about popular culture and how we use degrading terminology. just in general, speaking on the subject of marriage equality. that is something that was heavy on my heart after reading that article. around that time, that was when you have president obama come out for the first time in support of same-sex marriages.

you're watching society of all in the conversation of all and some of these negative terms being thrown around not become the norm and get called out. ♪ macklemore: if it is on my heart, i will want to put it into a record. i do not just make socially conscious music, but it is a part of who i am and it will translate to the song.

charlie thrift shop came along : when? macklemore: 2012. it was about shopping at secondhand clothing stores. it is something i have done forever, getting back to the original karaoke tape deck. personality, i always resonated with shopping at secondhand stores. buying artwork and records and women's fur jackets and everything in between. charlie: what is it you think about that song? macklemore: it is an anomaly. an outlier, one of those records that for some reason the saxophone riff, but i am rapping about, the timing, the hook, it just kind of added up to the music video. it all added up to this cultural moment, and i do not think anything have heard anything like it. i was brand-new to people.

here comes this guy in a used cheetah coat on a scooter with a slurpee. it was just something new, and it spoke to people. ♪ charlie: what is in this one? macklemore: gemini, it is all over the place. it is multiple things, and i think that is something i always

embraced about my personality. i might have a socially conscious record here, or a record where i am battling addiction here, or i am a little bit flashy on this side. that is what gemini is embracing. my multiple sides. it is my astrology sign. this dual personality. charlie: first solo album in how many years? macklemore: 12. charlie: why 12 years? macklemore: there was some drug use in there. slowed me down for sure. charlie: he went to rehab. macklemore: my dad approached me and asked me if i was happy and i said no. that is for drugs and alcohol lead me. they lead me to isolation, depression, stagnation, lack of creativity.

that's where i was at that moment. when he asked me that question, i reflected and answered no and checked in about a week later. charlie: when was this? macklemore: charlie: 2008. nine years ago -- macklemore: 2008. charlie: nine years ago. doing ok? macklemore: doing ok. it has not been a perfect journey, but it is monday at a time and i have sometime within my belt. -- one day at a time, and i got some time under my belt. i have a program of recovery now. i did not have that before. i always thought i could do it on my own. i could white knuckle it and stop if i wanted. it is part of the addict. if you do not know what what a recovery community looks like, if you have never experienced that, there is no way you can know when you think you can do it by self-will. from my experience and the expense of millions of others, self-willed is not work. it is a disease and should be treated as such. charlie: categorize or you are

today. this is a solo album, the first in 12 years. more solo stuff? more experimentation? macklemore: yeah, i think life is an experiment. i want to keep experiencing, absolutely. i have a two and a half-year-old daughter and a beautiful wife and another baby on the way in march. charlie: life is good. macklemore: life is amazing. that is such a huge part of my foundation now, it's my family. and then you have the musical side. so it is a balance. it is a balance right now of being on the road, promoting this album, sharing it with fans, traveling around the world, and exposing this music to as many people as possible while also being a father. i am loving both of those. charlie: it is great to have you here. macklemore: it is great to be here. charlie: congratulations on everything. album gemini, macklemore. thank you for joining us. see you next time. ♪

alisa: i'm alisa parenti in washington, and you are watching "bloomberg technology." let's start with a check of your first word news. a spokesman for senator ron johnson says the wisconsin republican will oppose the current gop tax bill. senate republicans have a slim majority and can afford to lose only two gop members if they want to pass the bill without any democratic support. a revised version of the senate proposal calls for repealing the obamacare individual mandate. a lead lawyer for puerto rico's federal oversight board said the territory is considering suspending debt service payments for five years, the first indication of how the devastation caused by hurricane maria will impact the restructuring of the island's debt.