>> we're here inside the in indiana, here the governor takes his budget her university. -- purdue university. all that is ahead on bloomberg businessweek. ♪

carroll: we are here with megan murphy, and let's start with politics. neutral,e most gender equal societies, and they are having a me too moment. >> this is so interesting, because so much of this movement is focused on individuals and bad behavior, outrage, anger. sweden is, as you said, one of the most gender-neutral, equal countries, and has a smaller gap in terms of labor participation rate and the wage gap -- that is amazing. but they are really focus on policies and not so much on the shame of individuals, but on how ment touse this mod implement these policies, but also looking at criminal penalties were sexual abuse, and meaningful, real-world changes. sometimes, we are not as good as taking these moments of outrage

and connecting them with meaningful change, and that is what we are seeing in sweden. >> this is fascinating to me, because there seem to be more protections for women in sweden than anywhere else, but you still have this culture of silence and they see all sorts of sectors in sweden, too. >> that is what is so fascinating about it. this is a country that is modeled on, in part, because of their really regressed maternity leave policy and making sure that men carry an equivalent burden of childrearing in that country. we have seen plenty of studies that say having men shoulder an equivalent part of household rearing, taking care of that, is the key to keeping women in the workforce and closing the gender gap. so this is a society that has been transparent, and as we said, has a much smaller participation rate issue and wage issue, and talks about these openly, but still faces many of the challenges we see in this article.

very still a male-dominated political still industries dominated by men. julia: what about the culture of silence? >> they have the policies in place. carol: but where is the enforcement? megan: we have these policies and we need to make sure there is accountability. that is what people are struggling for, around the world where these issues have come out. how do we change it and make people accountable? frankly, for me as the mother of a young daughter as well, how do we leave the next generation in a position where this isn't happening anymore and we have impacted real cultural change? sweden is proving quite successful making real policy changes. one hopes that other countries will use this as an example and really look for other things we can do. julia: talking about real things we can do and people taking action, talk about mitch daniels. he is not in ordinary president by any means. megan: i love this story because mitch daniels is just perfect

for this issue. he is the former two-term republican governor of indiana, but he is doing something that other people aren't. in a time where we see rising tuition costs, and universities operate much more as a business with big athletic departments and high-priced faculty, he has done two interesting things. he's trying to keep tuition cost down or lower in some cases, and he's encouraging students to graduate in three years, not four. i wish i had done that. [laughter] the other thing is, he controversially bought an online educational business kaplan, he , believes it is fundamental to really changing this thing. changing the thinking and how the universities are operated. it is a fascinating look at someone who is going against the grain and against the trend. carol: as someone who is going to send someone to college in four years, i love this idea of stopping the increases in tuition. we have more from our reporter. >> mitch daniels was most recently the governor of indiana , served two terms as governor.

prior to that, had been as the -- had been the most well-known as budget director in george w. bush's white house. he was the senior advisor to president reagan. early in his career, he also spent some time as an executive at eli lilly, so he has had a wealth of experience, mostly in the public sector in national politics, and to some extent, the private sector as well. but has had no experience whatsoever as an academic. or in the academic field. so in that sense, he sort of the unconventional university president. carol: he came to purdue in 2013 and started shaking things up big time. and as a mother who will send her kid to college in three years, i love what he did. he froze the cost of tuition. >> right. so he came in and think he was very clear from the outset that the model that a lot of elite universities, both public and private, have been adhering to

was under pressure. and if it wasn't broken, it was going to break it some point. -- at some point. basically, you have a situation where more and more students are applying and seeking to attend these elite schools. as a result, they have an incentive to continue to raise tuition. that is saddling students with more and more debt that they take longer and longer to pay off when they leave college. this is especially true in public universities, where you have also, at the same time, seen -- have seen significant declines in state funding. to even the flagship universities like university of michigan, university of virginia, university of wisconsin. and so daniels came in and said we've got to change this and get off this roller coaster. he said, why don't we freeze tuition and look for ways to reduce cost elsewhere, make up for that revenue we are losing from this steady annual increase in tuition?

and maybe it will give us a competitive advantage. four years later, proof is that purdue has benefited hugely from this. students have benefited. the university has seen a massive increase in the number of students applying to go to purdue, in alumni donations, across the board, and most importantly, students are graduating with less debt. i would say it is an experiment that is worked, but can it work on a larger scale? that remains to be seen. julia: this is fascinating to me because it sounds like a man with a lot of policy experience. at the state level in particular, and now taking it to an institution and seeing how we can shake things up and make it work better. this is counterintuitive responses, that you said, applications have increased. i imagine a lot of people around him -- hang on a second, if we freeze these, it will look like we can't get people in the door. there were a lot of people were

very concerned about that hesure in particular that put through. carol: like a discount university. we are on sale. >> i said earlier, people said that if we do this, it's going to look like we lost confidence in our product. that is something that any marketer would worry about. if you discount the price of your product, it signals the quality of that product somehow lower than it has been. i think he recognized that while that might be a potential risk, the advantage of being seen as an institution that was actually taking costs seriously, that was concerned about affordability, and that ultimately was to deliver an education that costs less but give students more options when they came out was a risk worth taking, and would

ultimately work to purdue's advantage. i think he has been right in that. carol: let's talk about other things he is doing, because it is pretty disruptive, if you will, in terms of university. he's talked about interest-free student loans in exchange for a percentage of future earnings from the student. he also bought an online university, one that was tainted with controversy. >> earlier this year, purdue announced that they had acquired most of kaplan university. which is a for-profit chain of mostly online education properties. and basically, what this deal looks like, purdue is going to take over ownership. it is going to create a new institution with a different name, which still hasn't been fully resolved. they are not spending any money on the acquisition.

kaplan will continue to provide backend support and marketing. do a lot of the nuts and bolts. and then they will receive a percentage of revenues going forward. carol: up next, is this soda stream assembly-line a picture of peace or a marketing ploy? julia: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

♪ carol: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm carol massar. julia: i'm julia chatterley and you can find us online at businessweek.com. carol: and on our mobile app. in the good business section, the company behind the celts are seltg gadget -- zer-making gadget sodastream employs a multicultural staff at their israeli factory. julia: we asked if this could be a model for peace in the region. >> what he is doing is not just selling home soda making machines. at the same time, he's selling peace. so we wanted to go over to israel and talk to him and find out what that was about. julia: it is an israeli company , but it is located in quite an interesting area that moved from the west bank. so just explain the location , because this is important for the employees. >> basically, the biggest manufacturing operation was located on the west bank, which is in the occupied

territory that i think a lot of people consider to be israel is there illegally. they were seized in the war in 1967, so that became a big issue because there are some groups that are trying to boycott israel. and the fact that soda stream was operating a plans made them a really good target and the fact that they had scarlett johansson as their spokesperson in a big super bowl ad in 2014. carol: explain that. about the ad. [laughter] well, i have to back up a little >> bit on the ceo. he is an interesting guy, because his background is in consumer marketing. he went to harvard. he is from queens, but he grew up in israel. harvard, when he got out, he went to procter & gamble and worked on the crest account. from there, he went to the

pillsbury division in israel. and then he ran nike. basically, he is a really great consumer marketing guy. one of the things he likes to do is start controversy. to create awareness, as he puts it -- carol: it's effective. it works. >> in this case, he hired scarlett johansson to do an ad for the super bowl where they took these jabs at coke and pepsi. they got a lot of attention for that. but also, it made them a target for these sort of pro-palestinian boycotters. stuff like that. so -- i mean, i think he likes mixing it up. i think he likes taking people on. a friend described him as a hipster david versus goliath. but i think he is also trying to turn the whole boycott and make that help his company, too, and turned that in soda stream's favor. i think it is working, because

the company stock is way, way up. they bought this company, this private equity firm that hired him, for $6 million and it is now worth $1.5 billion. julia: let's get back to when he was operating in the west bank. he was in charge of nike and given the opportunity to move away. he wanted to stay in israel. you also described a guy who wants to focus on peace, not just a profitable business. talk about that and the people he employed because he had a real cocktail of employees. >> we kind of skipped over that and that is important. he comes in in 2007, and they have this plant, this old munitions factory on the west bank, and basically, a lot of israelis did not want to work in some plant assembling soda making machines. so, he said we need to start hiring palestinians. there was terrorism at the time, it was controversial. they installed metal detectors.

they said, basically, we will all go through the metal detectors. some people quit. julia: israelis quits. >> right. but also, what he was seeing was that -- carol: palestinians and israelis working together and getting along. >> getting along really well. carol: there is a bigger story. like this is a fascinating story in terms of what he is doing, but he said maybe what he's doing in the work they said -- workplace at his company is a way, a path to peace, if you will, much more broadly in the middle east. >> also, he thinks -- say the leaders of the palestinians and leaders of the israelis, benjamin netanyahu -- they are managing and not interested in peace, just managing the conflict and they benefit from that. they are not seeing a future beyond that. he thinks private sector people, like him, and people at his company, they need to take these steps independent of the political process to try to

bring about peace. because that is the only way he thinks it will happen. carol: what is interesting in terms of what he's doing, being very welcoming the palestinian workers, is it kind of endearing him to palestinian human rights groups? >> no, because now they say, you build your factory on this land that the israelis stole from the city in israel. although the mayor says -- julia: very welcome. >> yes. carol: what do the workers feel about him? both the israeli and palestinian workers? >> we went to the factory. it's pretty amazing. it's amazing that a guy who runs this company, he is the ceo. it's not a huge company, revenues are like $500 million a year.

he knows all these people. he knows a lot of them by name. he has long relationships with them. he gets involved in their personal lives, some stuff that didn't go into the story that i'm kind of sad about, like trying to help a break dancer who wants to go to acting school in the u.s. and he is like, let's help them. there are a lot of things like that. it is just funny, the fact that he is on intimate terms with all these folks and they are factory workers. julia: up next, turkey's central bank finds itself juggling presidential politics. carol: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

♪ julia: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm julia chatterley. carol: i'm carol massar. you can listen to us on sirius xm, channel 119, and on the radio in new york. 99.1 fm in washington, d.c. and 960 a.m. in the bay area. julia: and in london and asia. in the economic section for weeks now, the turkish president has been pressuring his central bank not to raise borrowing costs. carol: and he talked up a small victory. >> the president of turkey has a theory about modern inflation. that is if you want to keep inflation low, keep interest rates low, too. >> explain. >> it is a bit unorthodox. he has never explained where he got this idea. >> i want to go, huh? [laughter] >> it is not completely unprecedented in latin america. in the 1970's, there was a school called the structuralist economist.

the head of it was an argentine economist that worked for the united nations. their argument was developing economies and developed economies are different. there are structural issues that cause bottlenecks in developing economies, that the flex apply -- affects supply and push up prices. those issues are beyond the reach of what the central bank can do to resolve them. so if you do push up interest rates to try and control inflation that way, all that happens in an environment where there's a lack of competition because it was a closed markets, is that the companies push up the cost on consumers and it is feeding inflation more. there is a basis except most economies have progressed beyond the state. >> a few raise prices on the cost of money, they are offset the cost by charging consumers more. i get that. does that apply to turkey? >> inflation is 13% now.

>> right. that is double what the central bank's target is. recently, on december 14, they had an interest rate decision and announced a 50 basis point increase. the markets were expecting something around four points. carol: a big difference. [laughter] >> yes. they went into a tailspin and people are saying, what's going on? we talked to some academics, one who had argued that in the 1980's, it was true that in turkey, the structural issues did fuel very high inflation. going up to 135 annually. that is no longer the case because a lot of tariff barriers were dismantled and turkey is now integrated with the world economy. carol: he talks about the

interest rate lobby. a little controversial i feel like. a little conspiracy theory. julia: a lot controversial. carroll: exactly. what is he up to with this? >> well, he loves conspiracy theories in a way that echoes how putin talks, the world is against us and the world wants to undermine us and he says there is this cabal of international financiers -- he has not been explicit about everyone in the group -- but he says they are trying to damage the economy by lobbying for higher interest rates. julia: the point is that the president leaned on the central bank and said we don't want you to hike rates. i do not want do to hike rates in the sense that perhaps you need to control 13% inflation or at least the market perceives you need to, and you got an independent central bank. >> right. carol: that is the key point. >> and that is an issue. it is more than an academic difference of opinion.

because turkey has a huge current account deficit. it is $40 billion, around 5% of gdp and i think if you recall in mexico before the peso crisis, it was around 7%. when these get quite large, investors are on their toes, watching what is going on. if they are seeing this dynamic between the government and the central banks, this could basically turn confidence in turkey around. carol: with turkey borrowing a quarter of the sum of its gdp to finance its debt, if the economy falls into any trouble, they will deal with servicing the debt. that will be complicated. you also have elections coming up. he is doing these fun dances and i feel like they are to manage a couple of different things. >> his priority is stimulating growth.

we have seen that from other areas of policy, where they set up a special fund to lend companies and disperse billions of dollars that was established after the coup. the issue with the turkish economy is that it is incredibly important dependent, even for exports, so if exports go up, imports are going up as well. this issue with the current account is sort of chronic and kind of built-in. it is kind of two level games. you need to be playing to the local constituency with an eye to elections and satisfy the demands of international investors. julia: up next, china's roadmap for dominance in electric cars. carol: and a new fitness fad in india. julia: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

julia: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm julia chatterley. and i'm carol massar. still ahead in this issue, microsoft ceo satya nadella and the godfather of indian fitness. julia: all of that still ahead on bloomberg businessweek. ♪ julia: we are back with bloomberg businessweek editor in chief megan murphy, and we are talking about chinese companies always happy seeing the government to foster, subsidize,

and protect. they do that with industries like solar and e-commerce, now they are laser focused on electric vehicles. >> we spent a lot of time on this, china growing their own homegrown dominant industries. it feels like it is when they are really going out for that. one of the things i think people do not realize is that china is the biggest buyer of electric vehicles. they surpass the u.s. in 2015 with over one million expected to be sold in 2018. they have an ambitious target of 28 million by 2025. that is an ambitious goal. it is really being pushed by the government. they see this as the next industry that -- again, the key to china's dominance is they look homegrown to develop the next technology in-house and dominate their own field, and then they look to exported elsewhere. i think we will see the same thing in this space.

carol we talk about tesla and : elon musk disrupting the auto sector but it might have to be a chinese company. >> they have their homegrown companies that are already competing in this space, and they are being offered healthy incentives to do this. consumers are getting as much as and weates to buy evs, should mention there is a good business aspect. china needs to cut its pollution. there is a massive problem in the urban areas where it is not healthy for people to live in. the is another reason for push for that. it is almost twofold. that being said, the economic. how much they think they can move into this space, we see the requirements europe has put on in terms of electric vehicle consumption and production. very few people have the ability to produce and mass where we see masse where we see these going right now in china is a place where you might be able to. julia: volkswagen, gm, toyota. all the big guys that have billions of dollars to potentially invest in this sector, where do they fit here?

obviously, they would love to tap into the demand we are talking about for the chinese market. but when china is intent on building its own homegrown businesses, you have to wonder. >> they will have to pay to play in this market. we have to remember that these european and american brands have sort of a cachet factor among china's more elite and established class. but, that being said, this is really a free-for-all in terms of getting in there and dealing with that demand. if you will be offered this kind of incentives to not only reduce but consume evs. when i think about this, we talk about elon musk. he is producing all the time in that space, but they are still not producing nearly enough teslas to meet demand. this is about matching up. carol: three years is a long time in this space. >> it is a huge amount of time in this space and are not sure that, as a society, we have really grappled with the amount of change this will bring, not just in the ev space, but with charging, battery -- it is so massive and we spend a lot of time writing about it.

carol: let's talk about the story, one of the future stories. i love a good business story. who knew them in the land of where yoga was created, they have a health and fitness problem? >> it is a fascinating story about how the fitness craze in india has grown up, and how it has really become so much more of a commonplace stable. i learned a lot more about andywood and -- bollywood the fascination with sixpack, rippling abs. this is a great story about how they are tapping into this demand. this was a country that had a caloric minimum not that long ago. julia: it seems like we need the opposite nowadays. here is our reporter. reporter: i went to india in june to profile walker, the 84-year-old director of a company called "better fitness."

they are pioneering the gym industry in india. i went there and sort of look ed at how to sell the gym business to a bunch of indians who often are not familiar with what it means. >> what do you mean by that? >> in the gym, we are familiar with it in north america. and in europe. >> a mainstay for many people. >> exactly. it is a specific kind of business. in many parts of the world where this particular kind of exercise is not so common, it doesn't exist. in india, the business has exploded fairly recently. it was not until the turn-of-the-century, 2000, that the business really exploded. and now, as more money comes into the country and the boom continues, a lot of upwardly mobile aspirational indians are discovering the gym membership. carol: i am someone who's done yoga for a long time. india is where it is created. so i just assumed everyone did yoga and is healthy. but that's not the case.

>> people have been doing yoga in india for a very long time and continue to do so, but this idea that we have in the u.s., for example, as sort of a form of exercise that has been highly commercialized -- that is something that, until recently, was not as popular as you would expect. it has become popular on the west and some of these entrepreneurs are now taking it back and selling it back to indians. carol: talk to me -- it is a developing economy and it has come a long way. that means there are people that have more discretionary income. they are eating more, potentially, but the downside is sometimes you get an unhealthy population and people that are more overweight. we are seeing that in india. >> exactly, yes. as the gdp has grown dramatically over the last few decades, a lot of middle-class indians have developed unhealthy habits that includes junk food, smoking, alcohol.

and there is still a lot of malnutrition in india that persists, but with this upwardly mobile demographic, there has been a huge increase in obesity, heart disease, almost 10% of the population has diabetes. has increasedte between 1975 and 2014 by 2500%. that is a big problem. carol: they have come a long way from when they had to institute caloric minimums to make sure people were eating enough? >> exactly. the question is now to how they keep people from getting heart attacks in their early 20's. >> so talk to me about the godfather of indian fitness. very compelling person. he is an 84-year-old man and has claimed he has not missed a day of exercise in the last 34 years. he exercises in nothing but

bodybuilding, lifts, and he has a very warm personality. he has been able to fire this business in a country that does not see anything like it before, and has been extremely successful. the company started in 1932 through his father. they now have over 200 gyms across the country and extending very rapidly.ng they have plans to essentially innsform the way small towns india think about exercise and really introduce the concept more. carroll: and it is interesting in how you say they think about exercise, because american kids, for the most part, they go to schools that have physical education programs. in india, that is not the case. you do not think up -- grow up thinking about sports or exercise? up in thisy opened new city environment, the city of one point 2 million people, they have to do outreach and get

people to bring in their family members to explain what cardiovascular exercises and weight training is, and that information spreads. a lot of people also come to this idea of exercise because their doctor tells them to, because they are having heart problems in their 20's or early 30's. carol: up next, the 19 minutes that changed the art world forever. julia: and searching for gold in ecuador. carol: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

♪ to bloomberge back businessweek. i'm julia chatterley. carol: and i'm carol massar. you can find us on businessweek.com. julia and on our mobile app. :in the economic section, deep in the rain forest of ecuador, a miner is searching for lost income gold. -- incan gold. carol: using a combination of our technology and ancient maps. >> he is a geologist. he is often his own guide. he has had various successes before and always had this dream for several decades now to go find the lost cities of gold in ecuador. what are the lost cities of gold in at wood or? ?- ecuador >> there were seven cities of gold at the conquistadors established in the 16th century, and were mining a heck of a lot of gold. four of them merged into modern

cities. there were three that were kind of covered up by the jungle over the decades because at the end of the 16th century, the spaniards were kicked out by the local indigenous people. and they were continued to be kicked out. they would send waves and waves, 30 times they sent soldiers into recapture these gold mining towns -- they called them cities, but they were little settlements. every time the soldiers would be a stater come back on with trumpet heads, it was a very violent time. eventually, the spaniards gave up. they lost control of that region. it was controlled by the french for a little while, and then became independent countries. but the jumbles covered up these places, and they have always sort of existed in the imagination of people. but they also exist in maps and

travel chronicles. carol: let's talk about that, because keith barron has spent a lot of time in the vatican library. he has spent the time poring over these hundreds of years old documents. >> keith barron was already a working geologist. that was back in 1998. he had some successes in peru and elsewhere on the globe. he decides to take a bit of a sabbatical. he went to take an intensive course in spanish. he was staying with a family, the head of that family was a professor of history. he was obsessed with antique barronnd told keith about this map that dates back from 1574, which marks the loss that were once the gold regions

of ecuador and peru. carol: that is what those maps were called, the gold regions, when they were translated? >> exactly. carol: jackpot? >> these maps were not unknown. antique collectors knew of these maps. but no one thought they would find a lost cities. so he became obsessed with this. he did other business ventures, ,e found other gold in ecuador and had this mission that he was going to find these two cities. that is what this story is about, the search for one of these two cities. carol: speaking of riches, in the finance section, the hundreds of millions of dollars in the high-stakes artwork. julia our reporter was at : christie's when that painting by leonardo da vinci sold for a record $450 million. she loved it and did the math on who made what. >> nobody knew what was going to

happen. people in the industry knew that at $100 million and there was a prearranged bid. so everybody knew it was going to sell. carol: how often does that happen? >> it happens all the time. that is why the auction houses are around in this day and age, when the prices are so high, they have to offer the guarantee to sellers, who otherwise do not really need to part with these works. they said ok, they want $50 million for this work. and the auction house says, no matter what happens during the sale, you get your $50 million. i will offer you this guarantee. julia: where does the auction house sit in the middle of this? do they go to somebody and say look, we will give you this price, and then they have to

find someone to offer that price? how does it work in terms of finding the guarantee? >> exactly. in the past for many years, auction houses financed the guarantees. they took on the risk. they would offer you a guarantee for your picasso and then they would be on the hook if it doesn't sell. during the financial crisis, they lost tens of millions of dollars or more even. it was a bloodbath because they were on the hook for that. and then the market turned and that nobody was buying it. so they had to take all of this into inventory. it was a mess. so after the financial crisis, they stopped doing guarantees for a while. and when they came back, let's outsource our risk to third parties. so let's find another person that would place a prearranged bid. so resell the work. if nobody wants it, you will buy it. >> like an insurer. >> it is insurance for the sellers and insurance for the auction house. they are not on the hook and they don't take the risk anymore.

julia: in the case of the leonardo that had this guarantee for $100 million and it sold for multiple times that, what happens to the person that put up that potential $100 million. >> they made a lot of money. julia: really? >> yes. so all the details of this, we know they are all very secretive and confidential. we are never going to find out exactly what happened. usually, the guarantor for taking on the risk. offering the money to give the seller -- if nobody else bids. if nobody else bids, they buy the work. that is it. but in the case of the leonardo, there was a huge upset because the bidding went for 19 minutes. and it felt like longer. julia: it was so excited. >> >> and so the hammer price was $400 million. the $50 million extra, that is

commission that christie's charges. but the hammer price of $400 million, the guarantee was $100 million, so you had on the $300 million outside that is shared between the seller and the guarantor. the buyers and the sellers must -- carol the buyers and the : sellers must love this -- or do they? >> they do, because it gives them the product, the most desirable work that otherwise wouldn't come up. carol: up next, how to be a leader at an iconic company that has already had to ceos that are larger than life. julia: sets yelena dela's conversation with -- satya nadella's conversation with bloomberg businessweek, straight ahead. ♪

♪ carol: welcome back to bloomberg businessweek. i'm carol massar. julia: i'm julia chatterley. you can listen to us on the radio in new york, won a 6.1 in boston 10, -- boston 99.1 fm in washington, d.c., and , 960 a.m. in the bay area. carol: and in asia on the bloomberg radio plus app. in the debrief, megan murphy sat down with microsoft ceo satya nadella. felt: she described how he filling the considerable shoes of bill gates and steve ballmer. megan: this is the best part of my job. with him, i was lucky and had a pretty clear place to start. he published a book this year

called "hit refresh." reading the book was fascinating to me because -- i highly recommend people read it -- it is both sort of a tale about his life. i don't think people really understand, being an immigrant, obsessed with cricket, and his wife and disabled son. in his book and how he molded himself to be an executive is about empathy, putting up with the epic core of a corporate culture. particularly one that has gone through that. that's what i wanted to talk to him about, when companies are being expected to carry more and more of a voice from everything from a transgender bathroom been to immigration policy, to infrastructure, ai. how do you wield that voice? how do you be that leader both internally and externally? julia: you talked to him about listening he said the importance . he said the importance--

listening. he said the importance of listening, to be empathetic. megan: he is the third ceo of microsoft. he follows bill gates and steve ballmer. carol: that is not easy. megan: it is not easy. and we talked about this and in the book, he says that when the names were circulating as steve ballmer's replacement, none of the internal candidates were driving any enthusiasm among employees, including himself. [laughter] carol: he is incredibly candid about the cultural problems he felt that microsoft had when he came on, and how broken he felt the company was. julia in what way? megan: that employees were silent, did not talk enough, that they were not empathetic toward each other and there was a competitive culture that business units weren't aligned in a single direction. this is a company that we all think we know and we have all used office. we all know the products, we all know it's bejeweled history and the place in american culture. to come in and have someone be that candid about really needing

to reinvent that is something i found particularly moving. julia: how do you reinvent a culture in something so established, and with two former ceos that were so pivotal in their own way in the time that they existed at microsoft? carol: and loud and outspoken. megan: there were a lot of employees in the room. if you meet satya one tip i , would give executives is, he's very unassuming. and he is quite self-deprecating -- to a fault. and describes himself as an average kid, got lucky. somehow ended up as ceo of microsoft. now, we all know that is not true. -- in my job,that when you interview a lot of senior people, the people who know that the world does not revolve around them and actually revolves around their business and their employees -- he is not mistaken about that. i think people know that.

carol: in reading your interview and listening to it, he has a compassionate side. just listening to what you have to say about empathy, something home personally for him. you talk about his son, zain. goesnk when someone through a tragedy or an illness, this affects them. they have a softer side to them and they approach the world differently. megan: we talked about this, but his professional side is his personal side. when he talks about his run, who is disabled, he talks about the moment when they found out, and he talks about the moment -- he is thinking about is the nursery ready, the crib ready, do we have the right clothes? and then hearing that your son might never walk again, he might never talk, you might never had that relationship. he said he was focused on what they lost, but what i really respect is he has been with his wife since they were teenagers.

she is the one who said to him it is not about us. , it is about making this journey for our child is productive and involved as possible. nothing happened to us, something happened to him. i think that really shaped his mindset of nothing happened to me. it is my job to go out there and try to make the world a better place in the way that i do through microsoft. but it is not about me. it is about something larger than myself. carol: bloomberg businessweek is available on newsstands now. julia: and online on businessweek.com and our mobile app. we saved the best for last in this one. carol: we both love the story that megan murphy did with satya nadella. he has a book out, he talks about empathy -- in the workplace, and the in life, it is really important. julia: the importance of empathy in leadership. and that's a man with pretty big shoes to fill as far as microsoft is concerned. but he is working on it. more bloomberg television begins now.

♪ is this a phone?

or a little internet machine? it makes you wonder: shouldn't we get our phones and internet from the same company? that's why xfinity mobile comes with your internet. you get up to 5 lines of talk and text at no extra cost. so all you pay for is data. see how much you can save. choose by the gig or unlimited. xfinity mobile. a new kind of network designed to save you money. call, visit, or go to xfinitymobile.com.

>> ♪ i-d-e-a, ideas ♪ ♪ >> sculpture is an incredibly dynamic discipline. it has an endless amount of possibilities. it is important the sculpture gets to be seen and be part of the world. sculpture is a study of the entire ma