and he voted against our tax cuts. he also voted against medical help and health care, and that's bad. we can't have it. you know, it is one of those things. and he does other things that i don't like, i will be honest with you. >> six republican contenders are vying in the primary for the seat. president trump says he still has confidence in e.p.a. chief scott pruitt, but bloomberg obtained a new memo from an official that found fault with an snirble review that cleared pruitt of any wrongdoing related to his rental of a d.c. condo from an energy lobbyist. the surge general is urging markakis to carry an antidote for opioid over doses. it is marketed under the name narcan and is available without prescription in the united states. the penalty gone has recommend the the navy perform shock

testing on the u.s.s. gerald ford. the navy had previously asked the d.o.d. to delay testing for at least six years. in new york, i am mark crumpton . "bloomberg technology" is next. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org >> i am emily, and this is "bloomberg technology" coming up. first on bloomberg, our conversation with facebook c. offerman o., sheryl kara sandberg on winning back the confidence of users in the wake of the data scandal. tamping down the terror rhetoric of the president's top economic advisor now saying the trade battle brewing can be settled dibo matically. and twitter war on terror. the company suspending more than 250,000 accounts link the

to extremists. we will check in on the race to limit hate speech. to our lead. facebook's chief operating officer talked to bloomberg first. in the last 24 hours the social network has said the number of users iment packed by the cambridge analytical data scandal could be as high as 87 million and that the public profiles of all of facebook's users could have scraped. facebook is changing its policies and making them more clear in response. i caught up with c.o.o. cheryl sandberg at the men loe park headquarters in california and asked if it was too little too late. >> let me address that specific issue and then talk more generally. we had a feature where you could look up people by name or e-mail, and that was important for finding people. someone made a directory they shouldn't have made with that information. but to be very clear and specific, all of that was public information. that was information that was already publicly available on

facebook. now to your broader question, we know that we did not do a good enough job protecting people's data. i'm really sorry for that, and mark is really sorry for that. now what we are doing is taking strong action. we are starting monday rolling out the process right toe top of news feed all of the apps they have connected to and a very easy way to delete those apps. we are going to tell anyone who may have had their data affected by cambridge and lit -- analytica who they are. we are limiting that, and we are looking beyond apps. we announced yesterday that we are taking steps to shut down certain use cases and groups and pages in search. these are just the latest steps. this is going to be a long process. we are simically looking at all the -- systemically looking the

all the ways facebook data is used. we are going to tell you about them and shut them down. this is a forever process because security is always an arms race. you build and someone tries to misuse, and you build. we are committed to this for the very long run. >> mark has personally taken respond. he said we didn't take a broad enough view. it was my mistake. how much do you feel personally responsible? >> i feel deeply personally responsible because there are real mistakes that we made and that i made. when you take a step back and you think about what has happened here, for a long time we were really focused on building social experiences. a lot of good happened because of those. and when we found problems, we would shut down that problem. so the specific case of the friends offense sharing that happened with cambridge, that shut down in 2015. what we didn't do until recently and what we are doing now is just take a prodder view, looking to be more

restrictive in ways data could be misused. we also didn't build our operations fast enough, and that is on me. we had 10,000 people working in security at the beginning of the year. at the end of this year alone we will more than double to 20,000. we are massively investing in smart technology, and we are doing all of this to make sure that we get to a place where we can proactively protect people's data. >> facebook has constructed a business model that users share with facebook, and you are the chief architect of that. assuming the business model will evolve as a result of the changes, how will that impact the bottom line and profitablity? >> we have never run this company for short term gains, and we have never run this company to maximize profits. we have run this company for the long terp health of our company and business. we anunsed two quarters ago in earnings that these investments are big, and they will imbracket profitablity, and

that is the right thing to do. >> how much? >> we will update at the next quarter. >> with all we know now, do you believe facebook played a decisive role in electing donald trump? >> there is a lot of concern about what happened in this election. we are certainly concerned about foreign interference on our platform. the overall picture here i don't think anyone knows yes, but it is an important question, and it will be studied for years and years to come. where we are focused now is taking the lessons of past elections and making they are we apply them going forward. foreign interference, may have seen earlier this week we took very strong steps to take russian i.r.a. content off our site. that was a content that was in the u.s. election that we did not find quickly enough. but now we are analyzing ahead, and we found 270 pages an accounts linked to them thatter deceptive, in russian, targeted mostly at russians. our message is very clear. there is no place for this

deceptive content, for those troll farms anywhere in the world. we took this down in russia. we are looking for others from other similar groups, and we are going to take them down anywhere in the world. >> mark has been asked if he is the right person to lead facebook. do you believe that he is? he said he is. do you agree? >> i believe deeply in mark. mark had a vision for what social services and social sharing could be, and that vision remains really important. mark also, along with me and all of us, take sole responsibility for what is happening here, and we are making a very important shift. we are going to keep building social products because sharing is so important to people all over the world. and we are going to be much more proactive. i am not going to sit here and say we won't find more problems. we will. we are going to continue to find problems. we are going to continue to shut down situations when we find them. and this is a forever thing, because security is an arms

race. this 1 something that we are signed up for not just now, but on an ongoing basis. >> mark zuckerberg says he hasn't seen any meaningful impact in use. but we all have friends who have taken facebook off their fan, who have sworn off social media. how do you explain that? >> we take that really seriously. for me personally, if someone were to wake up this morning or yesterday and say i don't want to use facebook anymore because i don't trust them, that is something i take as seriously as possible. what i would say to them is that we are going to work hard to regain your trust. this is going to be not just a one-time thing, not one moment in time, but a long and ongoing battle, and there's a lot of good done own facebook. we want to make sure that people feel confident and comfortable and know that they can share safely. >> my conversation with facebook c.o.o. sheryl kara sandberg. i want to bring on our

bloomberg tech editor, brade stone. the first time we are hearing her speak in the last 24 hours, a lot of ref ligses that she is responding to. -- revelations of what she had to do? >> good interview. the apology tour continues. what we saw from her is what we have seen from mark, which is apologize, take responsibility, outline action. for the first time she said she felt deeply responsible, apologized again and again, but then talked about increasing the security staff to 20,000 people, letting people know in their data was scraped. the problem i have is new rules do not necessarily keep rule breakers. they do not. she acknowledges that, saying security is an arms race, but it is an arms race always fought. there is no such thing as an deterrent here, and we are going to see this happen again and again. >> and ultimately she told me

afterwards the business model is not going to change. if the business model is not going to change, what does that mean? >> it means that they are asking users to continue to trust them, to continue to trust that the swernt -- the internet can be secure, that you can share personal information and not feel inevasively targeted and that your information is being exploited by bad actors. they are going to have to go through the midterm elections and 2018 and the next presidential election in 2020, and we will have to look clotionly to see if facebook is being weaponized in the same way. >> mark zuckerberg is going to be testimonying two days before house and senate committees. what are you expect to go hear from him? >> more of the same. >> a continuation of the apology tour. >> and outlining actions. i don't think we are going to get answers. next week there will be pointed questions that he probably

can't answer. between is the information and what is being done with it. facebook has taken some steps to address the root cause of cambridge led to analytica thing. legislators will be using it for political purposes. there will be some theatrics. i don't think he is going to necessarily have a great answer for that. >> i do want to get this quick headline out. the brazil supreme court, a judge has ruled that the former president lula has until 5:00 p.m. to turn him 1ef6 in. he was sentenced to 12 years in prison for corruption. we are going to continue to follow this story. he has until 5:00 p.m. on friday to turn himself in. that 1 one we will be watching. continuing this discussion about facebook, there are some things that are difficult to square. on one hand, zuckerberg said they have seen no meaningful change in using.

she said there is a pause by some advertisers in spending. and a third, we all hear some people are disenchanted with facebook. is it going to hurt the platform? >> you are right there is a disconnect between what mark said yesterday on the conference call, that they are not seeing much change in business activity, and what sheryl told you today, and then there is the fact that these revelations have been getting worse. we just got the 87 million figure this week. i don't think we know yet. it is too soon. next week that testimony is going to be broadcast on the same level as the state of a union speech. people will be watching. facebook's two billion users are probably in the midst of some-in comfortable calculations about whether the cost of the service and the price of the privacy is worth it. >> brad stone, thank you so much for breaking it all down. coming up, taking on china. top white house economic advisor says the u.s. wants to

pressure china over trade, not spark an all-out trade war. we will have the latest next. if you look news, listen on the radio app and sirius-xm. this is bloomberg.

a torre we continue to work. apple c. e.o. tim cook is scheduled to be deposed on the 27th in its law suit with qualcomm. they have reached an agreement to be questioned by the lawyers . equal they are accused of lying to investigators and threatening to cover up the use of inferior martz in some iphones. president trump's top economic advisor, larry kudlow, told

bloomberg earlier that the president is properly wayy of china but still expects the u.s. toe reach an agreement in trade with its fellow economic superpower. take a listen. >> both countries have just proposed tariffs. there is nothing inacted. that is an important point. here in the u.s., we are going to put it out for comment for a couple of months. i don't want to pinpoint a deadline. that is bob's area. there is nothing around the corner. there will be big discussion about it. all the senators will weigh in, and we welcome in. >> the white house trade advisor, peter nassar said the white house will hold high level talks with beijing before anything takes affect. the discussions will occur in the 060-day period when america an provide feedback. ne company that could be hit

is global trade. the c.e.o. joins us. if the products that you guy transport that we are talking about here, who is going to get hid hard his by the tariffs? >> there is a broad category. they tried not to hit things that consumers use every single notice it may not as much. it is things like fitness wearables. fire extinguishers, thermostats, dish washers. there are a lot of consumer goods in there as well as agricultural equipment, beer making equipment, mote cycles. >> what about tech in particular? >> wearables is one i would have my eye on. pact flex ld this im port. >> we have several companies. we looked, within an hour of the tariff announced it affects

% of them. for those affected, it is as much as 100% of their shipments that are going to get hit. >> how do they handle that below? >> supply chains take a long time to process. you have to make plans about where you pro, what goes in, the customs duty. it is not something that can be changed overnight. we are working hard to help them plan around this. >> there are some big questions that we heard larry kudlow there saying nothing is going to happen for months, but there is a big question as to what the total damage will be? >> that is the problem here. businesses like to ra operate in an environment of certainly. if you don't know what is going to happen, how do you plan for that? every side of a chinese export is an u.s. importer affected. exports to china are going to be hit. those hasn't are already in the ground. we sell $12 billion of so you beans to china last year.

if we can't ship them, what do we go? >> had these tariffs been in place last year, what would the impact have been? >> it is about $50 billion of merchandise. you are talking about a 25% dutyy rate. these are big numbers. it is kind of hard for us to get our head around what they mean. for the companies affected, it can really be the difference between profitablity and bankruptcy. >> ultimately there are still a lot of questions about whether the u.s. is really losing in our relationship with china, and therefore, is this trade war necessary? what is your opinion? >> i think it is really important to remember that trade has two sides. every single chinese export has an american business that is importing something, and they have voluntarily participate inside that trade because it makes their business better off. these businesses employ people and they have customers. suddenly changing the rules of the game makes it very hard for businesses to operate. customers depend on these products, so it is really chaotic.

>> what are you telling your customers, and what are your customers tell you? >> that is sour first priority, finding out who is affected by how much. we talked to them in 24 hours and let them know this will be the impact on you. it doesn't go into affect for 90 days. for some of them, it is real time planning, like getting inventory into country. then there is the longer term planning that should you consider producing in other countries, or should you engineer your product to get classified as a different code? >> what do you make of the president's war of words with amazon? he literally just landed from west virginia and said yet again amazon is not a level playing field. it is a company he is going to be taking a closer look at. we don't know how much of this is smoke and how much of this will lead to fire. but he is really taking direct aim at the biggest e-commerce company in the world. one of the biggest players in logistics, which is your territory.

>> it is very interesting. what did he call them? he said they were making usps their delivery boy. >> right. >> it is really odd because amazon is one of the most successful, dynamic american companies. right now it is taking over a lot of industries. it is a great company, very innovative. it is hard to say on the one hand we want to support american industry, support american business, and we are going to put up tariff codes to protect the u.s. economy and then on the other hand pick a fight with our best company. >> you wonder if he is directing his eye more on the owner of the washington post. thank you for joining us. we are going to keep an eye on these tariffs. bloomberg beta, our venture capital arm is an anniversary in flexport. coming up, shares of spotify are stabilizing as more analyst give a buy rating. this is bloomberg.

>> now to the stock we are watching. spotify shares finishing the day slightly down, 1.6%. but the interesting news is fewer shares were sold than expected in its direct listing debut on tuesday. just about 5% or 5.6 million shares change hands at the opening price according to bloomberg data. this potentially contributed to an initial shortage that drove the price up according to people familiar with the matter. sales force is tapping the bond market for the first time in five years. a person with knowledge of the matter says the largest manufacturer of online software is selling unsecured bonds in up to two boards. sales force offered $1 billion worth of convertible debt which matured this week. it will be used to finance its purchase of mule of soft, its

largeest purchase ever. > amazon is adding jobs in saudi arabia. the crown prince medical with amazon's c.e.o. in seattle last week. the 32-year-old hare apparent to the throne had planned to discuss a project for the minister of industry for amazon to build a deity center in the country. this will be the first in the middle east for the world's largest cloud professorer. saudi arabia's 30-year ban on movie theaters is coming it an end. an a.m.c. is looking for a grand opening night. it was granted the first cinema license in saad -- in saudi rabia and plans to open 30 theaters initial. the first movie to be screened in saudi arabia, marvel's black panther. coming up, the e.u. is rolling

out new data privacy laws just as facebook tries to repair its trust with government officials. we will talk about the next steps. >> check us out, "bloomberg technology" 5:00 p.m. new york, 2:00 p.m. san francisco. this is bloomberg.

>> let check first word news. president trump continue toss show his displeasure at amazon. just before leaving west virginia today, the president said america's biggest e-commerce company is not on an

even playing field. he also said he was unaware of any payment made to adult film star stormy daniels. the. put the null of national guard troops he plans to send to the southern border at between 2,000 and 4,000. russia's u.n. ambassador has told the security council that moscow assumes with a high degree of possibility that intelligence services of other countries are likely behind the poisoning of a former spy in britain. they spoke to reporters. >> i fear that the russian motive in calling for a security council meeting today is another step in the pattern of contempt for international institutions that we have certainly seen all too much of. >> a ferguson judge in brazil has ordered the arrest of the country's former president, desilva.

he appeals a 12-year sentence for corruption. has until 5:00 p.m. to turn himself in. bloomberg news powered by over 2,700 journal e.u.s in over 100 country. it is just after 5:30 here in morning. 7:30 friday morning in sydney. paul allen is standing by with a look at the markets. >> good morning. equities recovered for a third day on wall street as fears over a potential trade war continued to ease. let's take a look at how the markets ended. the dow is up 1%. the s&p up a little better than 2/3 of one percent, and the nasdaq up about a half percent as well. that sets us up for a decent end to the week here in the asia-pacific. 3%.ures higher about .3

the japanese yen, weakening the most against the u.s. dollar among the g-10 pearce. the aussie slipping below 77 cents u.s. check in on commodities. gold continuing to weaken as fears of a trade war abate. oil climbing a little. copper and nickel both up 1% as the commesm metals recover. later on, waiting on the u.s. non-farm payroll figures for march. i am paul allen in sydney. more from "bloomberg technology" next. >> this is "bloomberg technology." i am emily challenge. the european union is watching facebook's actions in the wake of the scandal.

a spokesman will contact dat production officials to follow up investigations as to whether facebook breached e.u. privacy laws. mark zuckerberg said the e.u.'s new rules set to go in effect next month are very positive. take a listen. >> we intend to make all the same controls and settings available everywhere, not just in europe. is it going to be exactly the came format? probably not. we need to figure out what makes sense for the different markets and laws. let me repeat this. we are going to make all the same controls and settings available everywhere, not just in europe. >> i want to bring in caroline hyde in london. that was news that these e.u. privacy controls are going to go into affect worldwide. what do you make it have? >> interesting that in fact we are not going to have one rule rolled out in europe and a slightly different set of privacy measures in the rest of the world. they are going to responsibility to the general data protection rules.

really tough regulations coming into place in europe on may 25. they are going to respond worldwide to this. and remember, this is giving more access to your data for the 500 million europeans. more access and knowing and the ability to control that data and sometimes be able to delete that data. we are seeing plenty of measures being rolled out. in some parts, ironically, maybe this is what we are seeing at the moment, the fact that we are seeing this fast-palesed reaction from facebook. some of those slightly more cynical in europe are going maybe these measures were planned anyway and they are in response not to the data leak, but in a response to g.d.p. that comes in later in may. we have seen facebook ever since january, sheryl sharme talking about new data measures, a new privacy center globally unveiled. and now we see more control of your apps. maybe all of this was planned anyhow. that is what the cynics are saying out there.

>> what have european regulators said in the last 24 hours since we learned that actually the number of people potentially affected in the cambridge scandal could be much higher at 87 million, and that two billion people facebook is saying, potentially all of its users could have had their public profiles scraped? >> i think that sent a few shock waves through europe. we have heard more talk coming from the leaders. you have heard the head of the e.u. in particular, justice commissioner, saying i am in touch with them. we are going to have high level contacts over last few days. we have heard from germany. germany has some of the toughest regulations out there on social media. they worry about their privacy and data. they had the justice commissioner fighting one against. she was saying you need clear rules and that ethical values are being breached and sacrificed because of the bottom line. meanwhile, reportedly it is closer to home in the u.k.

here. the i.c.o. is the watchdog actually doing the investigating on behalf of the whole of the e.u. now the i.c.o., the information commissioner's office, has 1ed they are in close cammingt with facebook. they say they are cooperating with the regulators over at facebook, and they welcome the changes that have been made by sfook so far, but they add it is too early to say whether they are sufficient under new law. >> and talking about the business, we got the first sort of indication of just how this scandal is impacting the bottom line. sheryl kara sandberg telling us a few advertisers have paused their spending. but at the same time, zuckerberg is saying they see no meaningful change in usage despite all of the perceived anger and resentment among users right now about these latest revelations. what do we know about how this could actually impact the bottom line? >> i think this is what is so ironic about the whole situation. if all of these things had

happened prior to 2015 -- if we ad seen these now -- if gdpr had been in place when all of this came to a head, we could have seen some hefty fines. the gdpr allows you to fine up to 4% of global revenue if they don't abide by the privacy rules that would have been broken if the cambridge scandal would have occurred under them. we could have seen one billion euros worth of fines if that that was the case. but now going forward we are going to see whether this really does hit the bottom line. as you say, data as it stands, you need explicit consent going forward to use certain data. perhaps your race, your ethnicity or your political opinions. well, if you can't target your user bases you used to be able to, how are they going to keep attracting advertisers? this must be baked into analysts expectations.

we know only two sell recommendations are out there on the facebook stock. analysts are going to have to look at the regulatory overhang. the data bank is saying for the time being we are not allowing anymore purchase of facebook shares. >> that is caroline hyde live for us in lone do not. thanks so much. in the meantime, twitter disclosed it suspended 274,000 accounts in the last half of 2017, link the to extreme. . the company says it has removed 1.2 terror relate the accounts. i want to bring in another to talk about it. this has been an ongoing process. what do we make of another evolution here? >> this is the second consecutive quarter that the amount of accounts are being resigned. this being said, the sheer numbers are incredibly large and shows it is an ongoing challenge for them. more than 1.2 million accounts

being suspended over past two years. we have seen the companies really try to get ahead of potential regulation. we have seen that lawmakers say if terrorist content is not immediately taken off, there could be fines for the companies. they have created this global counterterrorism forum to share the unique data of the most violent imagery to capture that content across board. but questions remain. how often is this terrorism forum meeting? dough they have office space? where are they storing this data? there are still a lot of questions that regulators have, nd every day terrorism experts are seeing content uploaded to terrorists. >> in the midst of all the facebook news, jack has been invited to testify, but we don't know if he will be in washington next week. talk about the facebook hang over that twitter is feeling? >> twitter has declined to

comment several times despite my continual asks. what i am thinking is they are going to be watching zuckerberg closely. they are going to see how he performs and how lawmakers response. twitter is sitting in a better position as facebook because they simply don't capture as much data on their users. twitter as a platform is publicly, so what is shared with users is already publicly available. however, we are seeing users react publicly, and it will be vulnerable to any potential regulations that could hit facebook. >> thank you for that update. coming up, the future of online security has come into questions over the last few weeks. what web performance and security company cloudflare is doing to protect your data. that is next.

>> over the last few weeks we have seen countless experts and analysts speak out about the importance of data privacy. cloudflare is no different. however, the company is implementing something that could help create a faster, safer and more private internet for everyone. on sunday the company announced is launching a d.n.s. service for users called one dot one dot one dot one. it keeps some data away from network providers. here with us, cloudflare co-founder michelle zatlyn. thanks for joining us on the show. >> thanks for having me. >> i want to start with this idea that facebook and google aren't the worst of the companies. other companies know a lot more about us. explain? >> exactly right. i think right now in the news there is a lot of conversation around privacy as they should be. there is a conversation we have

been having a long time. with technology, more and more people are getting online, and more whether internet properties, your internet service providers, add tracking cookie companies. there are a lot of companies that know about what you are doing online. you think that is creepy. >> what do they know? >> it depends on who it is. they can know which website you are going to, which one you are clicking more of versus other sites, different adams appear. which ones you click through and which ones you don't. maybe when you are shopping for a new couch or a new pair of shoes, and it follows you around online saying buy me. >> do they do that? >> some companies do. there are two sides of the argument. one side is if a customer is coming and interested in learning more and i know they want this new pair of shoes, i want to be very targeted in showing them over and over again so they will say fine,

put it in my check out basket, buy it now. that is one side of the argument. the other side is where do you draw the line? as a consumer what we are sfeeg with a lot of the tech companies in general, i want to know who has my data and what you are doing with it. i don't necessarily want people or businesses to know exactly what i am doing online. i think that is why the conversation keeps coming up over and over again around the privacy of what can i do to be more private in my life, and what aim ok with a business having, and which businesses am i ok with it having? >> cloudflare is a new product. how does that restrict the amount of data that these companies can have about mow? >> one of the companies that knows a lot is who you are buying internet access from. most households have access. they know every single website you are visiting, every day, every night, every weekend. you think about that, and you think -- now they may not know

what you are doing on that site, but they know exactly what site you are visiting. they know your name and where you live because they are your internet service provide. last year, the senate passed a new law where they said if you are the internet service provider, if you are buying service from at&t or comcast, that those providers can now sell the data that they have about you to advertisers. you think do you want that? this idea privacy has been coming up. cloudflare provides internet properties. a bunch of engineers came up and said we have to do something. it is one thing to talk about it and another to come up with a solution to it. >> so what are you doing? >> what one dot one dot one dot one is on. it is four ones. we launched it on april 1. basically, for your internet access at home or business, you sign up, and it literally takes less than a minute to sign up.

it is a privacy first d. information s. service. most people doumit know what it is. you do need d.n.s. to getology. you keep comcast or at&t as your provider, but now it is privacy first. we will not track what you are doing online. >> so they will not be able to see where i am going if you use you? >> exactly. >> what is your take on the responsibility or the lack thereof that companies like facebook and going of have taken on this? should they be doing more to not collect that information? >> i am definitely a glass half full person. if i look for a silver lining in what is going on now, it is creating conversations of like what are the responsibilities. i think about as a leader, i run a large tech company, and there are four constituents we have a responsibility to. first is your shareholders. you need to do well by your

shareholders, your customers, well by your employees, which is important, and you need to do well by your communities. i think new model of leadership for tomorrow is thinking about all four of those. i think a lot of the issues that come up are when you get one of them wrong. i definitely think the new age of leadership is to think about all four sit website, and the companies who do that are ones who are going to grow and capitalize on the opportunity going forward, and i think that is a good thing. >> michelle zatlyn, cloudflare co-founder, thank for you stopping by. >> thank you. >> one dot one dot one dot one. coming up, fixing facebook. can the world's biggest social media platform protect its users? does the government need to get involved? that is next. this is bloomberg.

>> earlier today facebook c.e.o. sheryl kara sandberg called protecting people's data an arms race and said facebook is committed to security for the very long run. but is that enough to create a truly socially responsible network?

my next guest thinks it is time to regulate the internet. that is the title of his most recent article in the atlantaic. before that he was taking on he existential threat of big tech in a book called world ithout mind. franklin, welcome to "bloomberg technology." let's get to that first question i asked. i know you saw the interview with sheryl kara sandberg earlier in the show. is what facebook is saying, what sandberg and mark zuckerberg saying enough? >> no, it is not enough because they have a track record now. they have been careless with people's data. they have been vor arabs with collecting information and is your veiling, and their business too deeply depends on that collection of data. without that collection of data, they are severely weakened. so we can't trust companies at this point to be good stewards of data and privacy. we need to have rules just as we have rules in our financial

system or agriculture, or every other part of the american economy. >> what should the rules be? >> so i think we need to formulate something that is close to our own version of what the europeans are doing with their new privacy regime, which is going to come online next month. i think we need to create -- we need to give people opportunities to control their own data and control the ways in which they are is your veiled across the internet. i think we need to make it harder for companies to impose terms of service agreements on users where users have zero ability to negotiate the terms. i don't think it is that hard to come up with a set of rules. i think that there are lots of examples out of there. i think we need to have a regulator that is committed to those rules. rye now the s.t.c. is so lax and not on the ball when it comes to dealing with these

questions. i think we need to have a national data protection authority like other countries do. >> you know, talking about the impact all of this has had on journalism and data science. obviously i know you worked at the new republic actually. you were pushed out under cris hughes, who is a co-founder of facebook, who interestingly has lso talked a bit more freely about facebook's responsibility in the world and the lack potentially of them rising to such a responsibility. but how is this affecting news and how we get it? >> so there are two problems that exist in parallel. the first problem is the problem of privacy in data. but the second problem is that journalism has become hugely dependent on facebook. because of that dependence, because journalism needs the traffic that comes through facebook, the values of facebook end up becoming the values of journalism.

journalism has ended up pandering in a lot of its decisions, or adapting in a lot of its decisions in order to be maximally successful on facebook. unfortunately, facebook has been terrible for journalism's underlying business because facebook has gobbled up such a huge percentage of the digital advertising market, there is just not a lot of dollars left there for journalism. journalism doesn't have data. journalism can't compete with facebook when it comes to the targeting of adams. so i think -- of ads. i think we are actually at a place where there is going to be parting of the ways between journalism and facebook. we saw this before the cambridge crisis where facebook was adapting to return to its core moderates el of being a true social network that is about friends keeping in touch with friends and sharing pictures with friends, and journalism was going to be doe valued in its algorithms.

i think that separation is going to be healthy both for journalism and also healthy for facebook itself. because facebook doesn't want to be in the role of being the global arbiter of truth. >> what would you like to see from mark zuckerberg next week when he testifies before congress? >> he has to -- he has got a serious trust deficit. there is nothing that mark zuckerberg can tell to me that will make me ultimately trust him again or trust him when it comes to the handling of data. i think that he has really dug himself into a hole. i think that the company's reaction to the election and the way in which it hasn't really fully owned up to the lapses in its problems until journalism has essentially forced facebook to own up to the problems. how do you get out of a trust deficit like that? i don't know if it is really possible to do in one appearance before congress.

he is going to have to sit there and take his licking. foer, author of world without mind. we are going to be in washington next week covering mark zuckerberg's testimony. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." a reminder. we are live streetballing on twitter. check us out 5:00 p.m. new york and 2:00 p.m. san francisco. that is all for now. this is bloomberg.

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