♪ >> she grew up in dallas, texas. a young girl who loved computers. in 1987, she landed her first job i do newly public company called "microsoft." she met the man who would later become her husband. cofounder bill gates. last three decades, bill and melinda k have become two of the world's most prolific philanthropists. she is empowering women everywhere, especially in technology. our show, today on

melinda gates, founder of the bill and melinda gates foundation. we are in texas which is where you are from. you were born in dallas. the second of four children. i'm curious what it was like growing up, melinda french. melinda: i was very lucky because my parents told all four of us, you will be college going. we think that is important. they explained why because of the opportunities. they say, not only that, even though we could tell it was not going to be easy for my parents to put us through college, we will figure out a way as a family. they said, you can choose any college in the nation you can get into and we will figure out a way to pay for it. emily: your father was an engineer. you also studied computers. how did you discover computers as a young girl? melinda: i was fortunate. i went to an all-girls catholic high school. the mathe teachers, teacher who i really admired a lot worked with a lot, she went

to a conference. she saw these apple two's that had come up. came to the principal and said, we have to get these for the girls. she got several of the girls who were in math class and asked us if we wanted to sign up for her new computer class she was going to start. that's how i got hooked. emily: he went on to duke. you got a bachelor's or do got an mba at duke as well. this is one woman where better represented -- were better represented. what was your experience like? melinda: it was exciting. i did notice after i got past the freshman class, there were fewer and fewer women. that was just how it was. i learned to program with the guys. emily: he went on to microsoft where you got your first job in 1987. ain't the picture of the early years at microsoft. melinda: i was so excited when i got this job. i knew they were on the forefront and i believed in what

they were doing. because i had this technology background, i could move up on the business side quickly to manage whole teams of coders, people in user education, marketers, program managers. i had a decision to make a few months after i was at the company. it was tough. i was used to working in very all-male environments and college. it was abrasive. and combative. i thought maybe i will quit and go summerall's. i can get a great job anywhere else. maybe there is something about me that doesn't fit. it took me a while to realize, no, it's this culture. i don't want to be like that. i tried on being myself. it ended up being successful. emily: you met bill at microsoft are you got married in 1994 p [soft at 9096 per you have become one of the world's most active and generous philanthropists. a core part of that work is a part of empowering women and

girls. where there are people who helped shape your thinking on women's issues in particular? melinda: i have been lucky enough to travel for over 17 years in philanthropy. i travel all over the world. i'm in the developing world. i'm in asia. i'm in africa. who shaped my views where the women. -- were the women that i talked to on the ground. what i was hearing at the local village level, sitting in the dirt on a mat, was the same thing i was hearing and i would hear the news in the united states about ceo underrepresentation on boards, of women on boards, or women ceos. when i initially went into philanthropy, i thought, i am going to stay away from this women's issue. maybe those are the soft tissues. what i had since learned is that those are actually the fundamental and hard issues. if we don't solve those, we will not get major change for the world. my aspirations and bills aspirations -- bill's

aspirations, we will not get there as a world if we don't make the right investments and women. emily: in computer science, women hit their peak, earning 37. agrees -- 37% degrees. similar numbers when it comes to jobs women are holding in this industry. you lived this. what went wrong? melinda: it looks like when the gaming industry turned, when the program -- when the games became more male games, more shoot them up, if you think about the early games i played, pac-man, the adventure games, breakout, they were gender-neutral. when you got into these combat of games that were male centered, and more and more men got into the industry, women started to feel unwelcome to when you get that flywheel going where it an industry becomes single-sex focused, it feels unwelcoming to women. they might join it but if they don't see other people around them, we know people look for role models.

if they don't find it, they say, i want to get out. we think that is probably what went wrong in the computer industry. emily: how did you encounter bias? melinda: i encountered it far more in industry than i did inside of microsoft. microsoft was glow -- growing. i felt like i had every opportunity opened to me if i did well. if i performed well as a female. in industry, i ran into it all the time to i would present, and i would show at it -- show up at a user group that is 95% male, and they would like, this woman is going to present to us? what could she possibly know about this product? as soon as i opened my mouth, it was clear i knew the product in depth. i was managing the developers who are writing the code. i knew what was in that code. on people'sit faces. i would bump up against it. i would learn to push through it. emily: james damore was recently fired at google for writing a memo in which he claimed that men are more biological suited

to computers than women. that mistaken assumption or toxic assumption is part of the problem? melinda: i think we all have a bias. i think we need to get under the hurt -- and be fed and figure out how do you create change by designing it out of the system? yes, i think if you are in one culture that looks a particular way, where it looks like only a white male can get a head, who went to an ivy league university, you will make more bias into the system. where as if we design a system where there are different pathways, we look at the environment, how to design it, you look at how do you spawn innovation for women and women of color, you will start to change the system. emily: in the last few years, you have recommitted to being a champion for women in technology. in particular. is there a specific moment or reason and you realized someone had to speak up for women in tech and that person could be you? melinda: i think, a few years

ago, -- i have been disappointed for quite some time about the numbers going down in terms of computer science degrees for women. i kept thinking there would be a woman to speak out or women who would speak out more. there are women speaking out. but i had not honestly put together my background to who realize, i was in that. i have always cared about computer and tech. wow, maybe i should use my voice behind us. they are places where we are against barriers to we have to make sure low income countries, and high income countries all become equal for women. i realize this is a place where i had something i really wanted to say. the other thing i will say about i not onlyee, believe, i see how tech is transforming our society. i see the changes that are happening now and that are coming. if we don't have women and

underrepresented people of color at the table, we will bake into those systems by us, particularly artificial intelligence. it will be such a reality the next decade and beyond. if we bake the pie is in now, trying to undo it will be too hard. i thought, what i thought were going on at ai, there are no women at the table. this is a problem. emily: why is it important to have more female engineers? female entrepreneurs? melinda: if they are writing the code and doing designing, first of all they are representing all of society. they see different problems and opportunities, quite frankly in the society. and then they say, when we create a voice for an ai system, it shouldn't just sound like a young males voice. it should be able to recognize an african-american boys. it should be able to recognize and hispanic voice. they see society differently because of where they grew up in the experiences they haven't -- of people in their own networks.

they will help us design those products to make sure they are once i represent all of us and then are not biased. that work for everybody. not just a segment of the population. ♪ when i'm seeing with the "me too movement" there is still more to come out.

emily: you founded pivotal ventures in 2015. when you started pivotal ventures, what is the mission you set out to achieve? melinda: it was to figure out what are the issues of american women face where there are barriers? and how could we go about knocking them down?

i am not finished saying yet the places we are going to make investments. but there are places i feel there are some societal needs, where government might not fix it or private sector might not fix it on their own. emily: pivotal ventures invests in venture capital firms. and is a partner or fund to fund, where these are the funds that invest in the people who are investing that are creating the future. when did you first believe that limited partners, or the investors that fund venture capital firms, have a role to play? melinda: we don't have enough women founders ceos who are getting funding. basically, less than 2% of funds go to women. to women of go color. in this innovation i said to myself, what is the best way to use capital to move things for women? that is when i started to say, i need to move money into venture

capital space. i want to do it smartly. the first goal is to make money. i'm not putting my money out as a social impact. i'm putting it out to make money. i wanted to go behind funds, are looking att opportunities and they have a thesis around, my gosh, there are so many opportunities if we go towards funding some of these women's businesses. emily: you mentioned you care about returns to her you are not doing this to have an impact. it's not a handout. wee lps have said to me, all care about is returned. some of the best investors may not be the best people, but they have the best returns. what do you have to say to those people? melinda: i have to say you are investing in what you know. you need to look at what trends are coming in the nation and how you're going to address them. of consumere 85% dollar spent. women control 70% of financial decisions in the house. if you are not investing in products that go towards females or women led companies coming

you are missing an opportunity. you just don't see it. i would say the same thing about unrepresented minorities. 2044, this 20, -- country, when you talk about minorities, they will be the majority. you are leaving money on the table. you are not in the deal flow. good luck 10 years from now. emily: how much of an impact can lps have? and should lps have in galvanizing change? melinda: i think we need a lps to start to make those investments. i think they not only need to make investments, they need to open their networks. if you look at a woman, she often doesn't have the same flowrk into the deal with or the level offenders. same thing for underrepresented people of color. they don't have a seat at the table. when they go in, people don't understand their products. it is being willing to take a risk a few times. emily: i interviewed the asked, do you i think online harassment would be a problem today if women have been present at the beginning of

this company? he said, i don't think it would be a problem. we were not thinking about how our product could be used to send rape threats are we were thinking about amazing things i could be done with twitter. how different do you think the world or the internet might be if women had been present when some of these early platforms were created? melinda: i think if there was a woman there at the table, and it would take several, who had a really voice and power, they would say, have we thought about this? have we thought about the rape scenario? if you look at the number of women who have faced violence, even in the united states, it is huge. it is very hard for me to imagine if there was a woman at the table who had power, that she would not bring those issues up. emily: do you worry the "me too" could backfire -- movement could backfire? melinda: sure. we have to be careful. groups decideen's to separate in terms of when they have meetings or men will not take a meeting along with a woman because they are afraid of

being accused of something, yeah, that is not good. we have to have the real dialogue about what could create change. when i am seeing with the "me too" movement is we are still at a point of reckoning. there is more to come out. it is industry by industry. that reckoning has to happen. and then i think we look at the, what do we do about it? recognizing in that face. then we will come to what are the responsibilities on solutions? emily: so you think there will be more stories? melinda: undoubtedly. it is still playing out industry by industry. when i see something like "times up", i am optimistic or whether you are a farm worker or restaurant worker, any of them. place to go where you can get help, not just the moma fact that this is happened -- has happened to you. but you can go for legal help to have recourse. that will make a difference. emily: how do you root out to

bad behavior and a way that is not trek coney and? -- draconian? melinda: i think we are putting a lot on the sole woman and a tech team or a tech culture to make change. it is too much. it needs to be part of management. it has to be part of the board level conversation. it has to be measured throughout the company. how are we actually doing on these factors? i think that is the only way you look at change. emily: do you think silicon valley can fix this? the problem of not having enough women at the table? melinda: i know they can fix it. they have to decide they want to. they are one of the most innovative amazing places. look at the technology that has come out of there that did not exist before. they put their brains to this problem and they get serious and that their money behind it, they can change it. ♪ melinda: the president cannot no matter who he or she is, has a responsibility to be a moral authority in the country and be a role model. name: your name and bill's

have been floated as vice presidential candidates. do either of you have political aspirations?

emily: as you have said, you

have been focused on gender for many years. what about our children? video games are violent. social media has all of these problems. if we don't change this now, one of the dangers? younda: the dangers are will amplify the things that go on naturally that used to go on just in the playground. i think you will end up seeing some of these societal problems because even though technology was created for good, the kids are finding ways to use it and exploited that adults never see. emily: you have decided not to allow your kids to have phones until high school. is that true? melinda: as a family, you have to decide. what are our values around this? what is great about it? but where are the places there could be pitfalls? then you have to set up rules for your family for where you are right now. we have both a daughter who was a senior in college, a son who was a senior in high school, and a daughter who is a freshman high school. the difference between where the

tech is for my freshman and high school versus my senior in college when she was a freshman, is night and day. instagram did not exist. snapchat do not exist. that arei have around new because i did not have to create them appear. you have to decide what you ilue and say to your kids, get that our family rules might look differently than that family or that family. but this is what we value. this is why you will not come to the dinner table with your phone on the table or in your pocket. we value your sleep. we value your mental health. emily: you mention that you put your phone outside the door at 9:30 p.m. melinda: we all benefit from being off our devices we have two role model that for our children. if we don't role model it, we can't ask them to do something differently. looking at yourself, anytime you point your finger, you have to say, what are the rules i have to put in for myself first and then have that tricky conversation with my kid? easyonversations are not

to you have to take them on because they are too important. emily: how do we make space at work for parents and families? we have reallyk good paid family leave policy, both at the state and federal level. i think there is this misnomer that we think, people get paid family leave today. the truth is in the-sector, only familypeople get paid leave. we have to have good policies in the private sector, we have to have good state-level policies, there are five states that have a paid late -- paid family leave policy, then we need one at the federal level. emily: in the letter that you and bill wrote, you said you wish president trump would treat women with more respect when he speaks and when he tweets. what does the president's treatment of women say about how we as a side psyd treat women -- as a society treat women? president,think the

no matter who he or she is, has a responsibility to be a moral authority and a role model in the country. i think some of the views today coming out on twitter from this president don't represent our views of women in society. school system a lot. all over the country. what principles and staff and teachers are teaching the kids is what is important in this country about not bullying, about treating people equally, having respect. you have a role model at the top and we have made -- he has made their job a lot harder. name: your name, bill' have been floated -- melinda: we like where we are to we like the jobs we are doing. we absolutely want to work with whatever administration comes in to that office. the u.s. government is too important around the world. and our role in the world is too important to not work with npr.

we feel like we can work hand-in-hand with them and in partnership through the foundation. emily: you say you will continue to work with the administration because you think working together is important even though in some places, you may disagree. mistreatment of women, what are your biggest concerns about this administration? melinda: this administration is making major budget cuts. proposing major budget cuts in foreign aid. the message that sends to the rest of the world about, do we care about others? and our ability to create markets to help countries move, to fill their aspirations for a moving from low to middle income countries, we are pulling back on that. that is a big concern of my husbands and i. emily: diversity has become part of the national conversation in the last year. how do you feel about the conversation we are having? do you think it will lead to lasting change? melinda: it's about time. i am relieved to see we are having the conversation. i think it is going to be up to

us as a nation to decide where we take that. i think the fact you have that conversation coming up at the same time that you have this reckoning with the "me too" conversation, people are getting their voice. when you look at the fact that over 80 candidates running for governor are females this time, we have only had 39 female governors in the history of our country. over 400 of the candidates for u.s. house of representatives are women, when you see that over 50 candidates for the senate are women, women are coming out in droves. they don't all look the same. which i think is fantastic. successesike to think when a woman engineer or ceo is normal. or a woman running for president were being president is normal. will that happen in our lifetime? melinda: yes. absolutely it will. i completely agree with you. when you have women at the top, and the reason it is important, is a role model. other girls can look up and go, i can be like her. i can be like that movie

producer. i can be like that director. i can be like that person who is creating amazing content. those role models are important. you are really seeing it happen. the sparks are all there. we need to help keep it going. emily: and a woman president too? melinda: definitely. emily: melinda gates, thank you for joining us. it has been great to have you. ♪ retail.

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bid for week three. the company said to be stalling. david: the plan to spin off its $58 billion wealth -- unit. pretty tepid session when it comes to trading in asia. the japanese market closed. not trading until the start of trading in london. we are watching trade talks underway in beijing. we believe steve mnuchin and the white house as larry kudlow down in beijing. managing the expectations. the hongtory being kong listings since 2014. david: about an hour before the an ipo.pened, filed for valuation, maybe 100 billion, could raise 10 billion. the quiddity doesn't come off when you look at markets. especially with height. it remains a fairly relative concern. with