♪ haslinda: hello. i am haslinda amin in singapore. she says it is not about the profit, it is about the impact. shinta kamdani has built her family business into one of indonesia's largest conglomerates. an ethnic chinese woman in mainly muslim indonesia. an angel investor passionate about progress, sintesa group's shinta kamdani is today's high flyer. ♪ haslinda: sintesa group is a

billion dollar company, indonesia's biggest distributor of consumer goods. it is also into real estate, industrials, and renewable energy. at its head is a mother of four who champions gender equality. a woman who uses her role of considerable wealth to help other women. shinta kamdani has become a beacon for indonesian business, inspired by what she calls her journey of national service. ♪ haslinda: shinta kamdani, thank you for being on "high flyers." such a pleasure to have you with us today. shinta: thank you. haslinda: the company has its roots three generations ago. your grandfather started it in 1919 as a rubber plantation, but your dad took over and expanded it into industrial manufacturing

and property as well. then you came along at the tender age of 32 and changed everything. what a gutsy move. why did you do it? shinta: well, first of all i think when i was exposed with the business since i was young, right, so i have an understanding of how the business is. at the end of the day, i see the company so identified with him. him as an individual. i find, as an organization, we have to transfer ourselves from a family business to a more professional management and have a longer perspective in terms of how we want to manage the company. so i came up in 1999 -- this is

interesting, because in the span of 40 years, we did not plan. 1919 to 1959, my father started trading. i started sintesa in 1999. 40 years had spanned without even knowing it. at that time i told my father, i said, if you want me to continue in the business, this is how i see my dream is for the business. i said, i fully understand that he has his own set mind of how and he wants it to run, but i feel like this is where we should go. haslinda: what did you do? what did you change? i know you changed everything. but, what did you do? shinta: first of all, i brought in, institutionalized the whole organization. we never have a vision, we never have corporate values. i said, those are basic, the most important things. how can an organization don't

have -- as long as everybody follows me and sees how we would do it, right? so i said it was important that we have one in terms of vision and core values, our identity, and how we want to do strategic wise through a holding. that is why we set up a holding company to be able to monitor how we can develop our investment. haslinda: what was the response from your father? was he receptive to your idea, how difficult was it to implement it? shinta: he said, who are you? i built this business. i know what is right for this business. don't come with your foreign graduate crap. [laughter] i know one thing, i know he does want me to continue. and he realized that he doesn't

want to run this forever on his own, that he needs to have that future. i am part of that future, so he kind of said, let's see whether your way will work, right? i said we have to focus. we can't just be doing anything. we have a cruiseliner, all different businesses that we are not experts in. that's why i put the fourth pillar. which is very important. the consumer industrial property and the renewable energy sector comes afterwards. haslinda: was this difficult also because you are a woman, you are the daughter, not a son, in a chinese family. does it make additionally difficult for you? shinta: very. i break the ceiling every day, especially with my parents, my father specifically. as an immigrant of chinese descent, you always think the boy will run the show, run the

empire. he doesn't have boys. obviously he is stuck with two girls. i have to prove to him that even if i am a girl that i will be as capable or even more than the boys he never had, so i think this was important for me to prove to him. don't worry. don't worry. i can handle this. haslinda: how difficult has the journey been? you talk about breaking ceilings, not only a daughter, but you are also chinese, which is a minority in indonesia, a non-muslim in a predominantly muslim country. shinta: they call me a triple minority because i'm a woman, chinese, and non-muslim, right? fighting even leadership positions are difficult. we are not talking about just business. we are talking about acceptance even in organizations because they think, who are you?

you are a minority. but that is what keeps me going. haslinda: what has been the biggest challenge in growing your business? shinta: in growing my business, at the moment the biggest challenge is obviously trying to get that balance of sustainable excellence. people still believe business is about making money and profitability. to bring the component of the social aspect and environment aspect has been very difficult. at the end of the day, if you don't make a certain volume of your business, then you are not successful. success is defined a lot of times with numbers, so trying to bring this to other companies is very difficult. decision-making, we will not do this because this is not green. of course coal is a more lucrative business, why would you not go into a coal power plant?

that is sometimes a decision you have to convince to the people with me, that we are sticking by what we believe is right, and then still proving that you can grow based on it. ♪ shinta: it is not about the value. it is not about the numbers. it is the journey about how we were able to get there. ♪

♪ haslinda: shinta, sintesa has grown phenomenally, 3500 workers, 17 units. and $1.5 billion in annual revenue. have you been surprised by how big you have grown?

shinta: i guess i have never looked at it in terms of size, right? when we grow, i always look at it, how we grow and how we get there. it is not about the value. it is not about the number. so it is not something that i want to reach. it is just a number. it is the journey on how we were able to get there is what is important. haslinda: what have been the momentous occasions for you in that journey? shinta: the first and foremost was giving the right soul to who we are, the right identity. i think what we provide the vision for the company it is very important that that vision is shared with all the people, part of the family, them sintesa -- the sintesa family.

that was the most important foundation for us. that everyone have the same goal and everybody feels, this is who we are. so that is the most important part. then to institutionalize the organization. to actually put the right structure, the right system in how we work, and how everybody can be challenged in terms of achieving that. haslinda: for your business, consumer products remain key. you are still the biggest distributor of consumer products in all of indonesia. where do you go from here? shinta: i think our distribution business is very clear. we are strong nationwide, logistics, warehousing, but from the consumer side, we are looking at our own product development. that is why we just launched sintesa health. we believe for the future we want to have our own products as well. we used to have it before, but

some were sold. this is the direction we are moving. so we have the right distribution channel all the way from the traditional market, direct selling, multilevel, and now medical. i think the products play a big role. haslinda: these are foreign partners, right? you tied up with the big boys in the industry like unilever, johnson & johnson, l'oreal. why is it important to tap the outside talent and what have you learned from them? shinta: we are one of the first local companies that bring those players into indonesia. they needed a local partner. we need that partnership.

bring in the products, the technology. we need that partnership. we know the locality, we know how to do business in indonesia. being with the product and technology for them to come in. we believe the partnership is very synergetic. we are not just there as a local partner without any contribution. i think each party is a win-win, so each party brings something to make the cooperation successful. haslinda: what is interesting is you see great future in green energy, renewable energy, and that has been quite a focus for the company. shinta: yes. i think green energy has been part of our big picture as a sustainable excellence, that is our vision, a sustainable excellence company. i believe in renewable energy in indonesia. haslinda: because? shinta: look at the resources we have. we have the biggest terminal in indonesia. there are so many opportunities for renewables, and yet we have not even achieved a small part of it.

so the target of the government to reach 23% in 2025 is a very ambitious target, but it is something that we definitely have to start moving forward on. the private sector has to support that. the government can has its target, but unless the private sector implements it, there is no way they can achieve anything, right? haslinda: even without involving green energy, providing energy to indonesians is already a challenge. we are talking an archipelago, 17,000 islands, some so remote you cannot get to them. what is the solution here? from your perspective, how do you help these people? shinta: first of all, there has to be a clear -- i come from the private sector, ok? i bring the corporation. i always believed that yes, government needs to play a role, but the private sector and the big corporations need to join hands and collaborate. why? because a lot of these remote areas have no access. there is nobody who wants to

invest in remote areas. there has to be a way private sectors look at this from the social component. that is why we start having projects, solar cells, and some of the remote areas that would not have access to electricity. this is very important. the private sector businesses look at it. this is not just a government job. we need to participate in this. haslinda: earlier you talked about how numbers are not so important so you don't track how big you are. but there must be a vision, 5-10 years down the road, where do you see sintesa and what would you like to achieve? shinta: i'm pretty serious when i look at the number. haslinda: [laughter] profitability is important. shinta: it is important. we do want to double our size in five years. haslinda: do you see yourself as a regional player, global player, at some stage? shinta: we are, at the moment,

very indonesian. we are a local indonesian company, ok? it does not stop us from one day going out of indonesia to other countries. we believe the potential of indonesia is still so great that we are still needed at home. we want to be very careful when we expand ourselves outside. we want to know which area, which sector, and something that we can really feel we have expertise to do it in some other countries. and we are looking at vietnam, for example. even myanmar is open. so perhaps moving in that direction. but at the moment there is still plenty of work. haslinda: four pillars to your businesses. two have been listed. the other two will be listed as well? is that the right assumption to make? shinta: yes. this is why i think governance is very important. listing is not just about

fundraising, but direct governance. our plan is to have all the four pillars eventually listed, so we now have two, and the other two hopefully can go public as well. we want to remain an investment holding as a private company, but we are developing, we are going in the direction of listed company for all our operations. ♪ shinta: i started the first fund for women. i call it woman-to-woman. the investment fund, i brought up my close friends who are successful entrepreneurs. let's put in money. we invest in woman startups. ♪

♪ haslinda: shinta, you were born into a family of entrepreneurs. what was it like growing up? shinta: business has always been part of our growing up. even during meals, always business talk. my father would take me to the office, so i have always been exposed from a very early age.

it is like part of our life. haslinda: you knew from very early on that you wanted to run the business? shinta: i look at him and look up to him and say, oh my gosh, i want to be like him, right, so it gives me motivation. he never said i would eventually run the business. but he gives me a drive to say, maybe one day i would want to run the business. haslinda: at age 13 you went door to door selling books. you did not need to. it was not about additional pocket money. why did you do it then? shinta: i thought a sales job is the best way of learning how to do work the dirty way because you are on the ground and have to make cold calls. you have to convince people to buy something. you don't even really know, but that i thought would be a very challenging experience, and i do feel that i can learn a lot from it.

haslinda: a lot of people are asking, how do you manage? a mother of four running a thriving company, at the same time, you are appointed as advisor to the vice president of indonesia, while promoting initiatives empowering women in the country. how do you manage this and what is the motivation behind everything you do? shinta: woman empowerment is a very big thing in indonesia. i find that although we are promoting gender equality, there are more women being in the workplace, i still find that there are still some -- how to say -- treatments that are not really fair. so i find that -- this is not just about women in the big city. when were talking about women in the smaller places, the culture

the woman has to be behind the man. so even though the woman does most of the work, they cannot claim that this is their business. that gives me motivation to say, come on, woman, let's go and get this network going, right? haslinda: [laughter] so what do you do? shinta: there are two aspects. first of all, i find entrepreneurship is the key important factor in the development of growth in indonesia. we just don't have enough jobs, right? i started an entrepreneurship organization to provide an ecosystem. provided training, incubating, doing the right way of supporting entrepreneurs. but of course financing is a big part. and financial institutions do not give financing to people who do not give collateral, right? i thought angel investing is the

right way to support these startups. i thought maybe i will tackle the woman part first. i started the first fund for women. i call it woman-to-woman. these angel investment funds, i brought my close friends, successful entrepreneurs, and said, let's put in money and we invest in woman startups. but, the second part i did was, i find women in the workplace -- who many corporations, of course multinationals, are already doing this -- gender equality program on recruitment, supporting facilities like daycare and so forth. but a lot of the local companies doesn't understand what this is all about. and many women lost the opportunities to be part of that potential career path because they need a life-work balance.

they can accelerate in their careers, but have the balance of being a mother and a wife. so that is how i started the woman empowerment business council, to bring in more companies to look at this program. more at the women in the workplace and start developing what does it mean to be that. haslinda: you talked about micro-financing. isn't it true the idea came about during the riots where hundreds of companies were destroyed and people were killed and you wanted to get more than just money? shinta: yes. when the 1998 riot happened, there was so much help, ngo came in. i said, actually what is the most important is, those

businesses that were destroyed need to restart their business. so this is where the idea came for the micro-finance program for those businesses that were destroyed. that is how i started it. i thought, i just don't want to give money. this is not about charity. i want to do something that if they rebuild their business, it will help them on the longer term. haslinda: if you were to stand on a rooftop of a building in jakarta and see all those skyscrapers which you helped build because they use the cement produced by your company, what does that make you feel having contributed to the development of a country and to see where it is today? shinta: i have to say indonesia has many potentials. i give now part of my work for national services because i believe in my country. and i believe in a lot of the work that needs to be done for my country. we have a long way to go. we have a good leader who has a

great vision for indonesia, but unfortunately this is not one-man work. even with a little thing that i can do, i want to help bring indonesia to the world. we are now on the map. i want to be able to bring and promote indonesia for foreign investment to come as well. i want to be part of indonesia that is my home and will always be my home, so despite whatever happens politically, i believe we can't give up and we have to continue working together as a nation to really believe that indonesia will eventually be one of the biggest economies in the world. haslinda: shinta kamdani, thank you so much for being on "high flyers." shinta: thank you very much. ♪

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