tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg February 20, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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emily: i'm emily chang in san francisco and this is "bloomberg technology." hour, up in the next highlights from samsung unpacked , the smartphone maker debuts its most extensive lineup of devices, taking aim at apple and rising competition from china. tesla's revolving door of general counsel is leaving the company after two months on the job. up as19 went to shape just as agonizing for elon musk as last year?
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but first, to the top story, the wait is over at the samsung unpacked event. unveiled the biggest redesign of a galaxy smartphone in san francisco. the tech giant introduced four new phones on wednesday, taking on apple with new low-end premium models, 3-d cameras, and in screen fingerprint scanning capabilities, along with conductivity. part of the revamp is affordable phone. the galaxy fold has a 4.6 inch screen. with aunfold to a tablet 7.3 inch screen, allowing users to use up to three applications at once. joining us now is mark herrmann who was at the events. how excited are you about a for mobile -- a portable -- a full double phone? mark: the most eye-popping part of this is the price point.
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this will be the first fold in phone we have seen. the price is about $2000. it is $1980, which would make it the most expensive namebrand phone on the market. about what youus see will be a real competitor to apple here. mark: on the hardware side, what samsung is coming out with is quite impressive. there are four devices. aboutg is going to be at a year-and-a-half advantage over apple in 5g based on our reporting. the low-end phone, takes on the iphone xr. it looks similar to the 10 are -- it looks similar to the xr. i've had a chance to use some of the phones in recent days. while the hardware seems ahead of apple, one to two years in
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terms of the camera technology, 3-d sensing, and 5g, apple's ahead on the software side and services integration. emily: you've reported apple is not working on 5g, at least this year. maybe it will come next year. do you think 5g capability will be a draw for consumers this year? i think so, in terms of the marketing promise and pushes we see from companies like verizon and at&t. will there be enough people in advantage?o take of it it is unclear. for the first half of 2020, 5g will be in a lot of markets across the u.s.. the problem for apple is that it releases its new phones around september to november of every calendar year, so unless apple pushes their iphone release and comes out with a specialized 5g version earlier in the year, they will be six months behind on 5g. emily: mark gurman at the
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samsung unpacked event, thank you, mark. i want to stick with samsung and bring in john butler of bloomberg intelligence. would you agree with what mark had to say in terms of his evaluation of the new products? >> i think the new products look terrific. i was surprised that the quality -- at the quality of the screens, the fingerprint technology, all of that makes samsung competitive. the one thing to keep in mind is they are really not competing with apple with these phones as much as they are impeding with these rising chinese vendors that have very good devices at really low price points. you think will convince consumers to upgrade? we know the smartphone market is slowing. what do these products offer that prior phones do not? why do it? problemthink that is a
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we will live with for a while in this industry. you can see it reflected in the shipment decline this year with a four to 5% decline in the markets in 2018. i think the next big push stop great is likely to be 5g. the foldable phone introduced by samsung today is a move in the right direction, but i'm not sure it's quite gets them there in terms of sparking upgrade activity. emily: how does this position theung to compete with chinese handset makers which are offering, often at cheaper prices, phones that some would say work just as well? has been almost literally pushed out of the chinese market by these vendors, so xiaomi is on the list, huawei , others, all with great devices.
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as you look broadly across the world, there is a lot of buying buying gooded at quality devices with really good displays. i think the display is becoming more and more important as video traffic rose as a percent of the total mobile traffic out there. tople are really migrating video, and i think samsung has an edge with its display. emily: how much you expect the market fair chart to -- market share chart to look different this year? has beensung's share roughly flat for the past couple of years. on the strength of this upgrade cycle, the introduction of the 10e, which is the lower-priced galaxy, the full double phone, i imagine you will see their share trend up a little bit. i suspect apple is going to be stable to maybe down little bit, depending on what we see in
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september. vendors,h the chinese sort of steady as she goes. emily: john butler, bloomberg intelligence, i appreciate your analysis. coming up, is elon musk too fast to tweet? another twitter snafu, this time on the production side. we will discuss, next. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. anytime. this is bloomberg. ♪
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he is a trial lawyer who represented elon musk last fall in his battle with the sec. that battle was in regards to musk's intimates tweet about havingtesla private and funding secured. since, the sec has kept a close eye on its twitter account, and now they might have more motive to take action. mosque tweeted to soon tweaking the electric carmaker would make about i've hundred thousand vehicles this year. a few hours later, he revised it to sayting meant annualized production rate at the end of 2019, probably around 500,000, i.e. 10,000 cars per week. deliveries are estimated to be about 400,000. joining us to discuss is an who covers craig, the company. the sec is not reacting up to this point and the company is
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saying it is in compliance with the settlement agreed to late last year. it does raise questions to your point, so musk was supposed to have a system of preapproval for tweets that would be considered material to the company. obviously, a 500,000 unit production forecast for this inconsistent with what the company had said previously. interestingly enough, mosque himself was -- musk was inconsistent himself where he did give a figure of as much as 400,000 deliveries this year, and a couple of hours later on the earnings call, said he could maybe deliver as much as 500,000 models three -- model freeze. he has been all over the place from a production and delivery standpoint, and this was a continuation of that. the settlement with the sec was supposed to guard against these things happening.
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clearly, there was an issue in this particular case. emily: does this concern you? past, we have heard musk say similar things when he talked about the 5000 model three production per week. he specified that is at a peak rate or, in this case, an annualized rate. general,r not -- in this focus on production, i think traditional analysts and institutional investors put way too much focus on it. our point of your tesla is that it is an eponymous electric vehicle company. this is the long-term story that we care about. in talking about production and hitting the specific targets, if they are off by a month or two, that will not change the long-term thesis. emily: the general counsel leaving after just keep of -- of afterhe of months, this
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musk surprise investors by saying the cfo would leave earlier this year, what happened here? craig: we don't know much beyond the vague reference to this being a poor cultural fit for him -- for the general counsel. that is reminiscent of something we heard from the many executives that the party last year, when executive who comes to my particularly is justin , who was supposed to be the chief accounting officer who left a couple months into his tenure and talked about t took for granted how much attention there was on this company. butsbutts we guess -- with was moving to the west coast and focusing on this company on a full-time basis and decided against this. it's unclear whether last night's tweets had anything to do with this.
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it doesn't appear to be the case, but it's also just generally another indication that elon musk may be at a difficult person to work with -- may be a difficult person to work for. emily: turnover is nothing new at tesla, but we talk about key roles. the cfo, the general counsel, the previous head of hr. does it concern to you that he cannot keep these roles filled? tasha: i would agree that musk is a particular person to work for. you need to jot with that style in order to be happy at tesla. let's talk about the cfo. in terms of the cfo leaving, that you can leave as, he came in during a difficult time at tesla and felt the company was ready to fly on his own. that's why he was ok to leave again. this departure was brought on and people were worried. now, when he is leaving, there is more worry.
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it's kind of like, pick one. in this case, it could, as you said in the beginning, the assign he did not get the litigation he expected. he said he would stay on in and outside counsel role, so you would think if there was some relationship damage he might not want to do that. emily: on a podcast this week, musk made interesting comments that might speak to both of these issues. he said people think sometimes i'm like a business or finance person. i am an engineer. i do engineering and always have. the reason tesla is making rapid progress is because we have vastly more data and it is increasing exponentially. about what he said here in this podcast. tasha: the podcast really focused on autonomous driving. we did that with a purpose, because we are long-term investors. that is the picture we see ahead of tesla.
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our price target is $4000 on the stock in five years. about is is talking tesla's stated vantage. they are the only automaker collecting data off of their cars on the road. that gives them an incredible long tail of events that no one else have's -- has. waymo published the intervention rate and waymo has about 10 million miles as of last year. tesla has billions of miles in autopilot. think, 8 billion, we with hardware one and two cars driven today. that is an amazing advantage and will get them across the finish line to autonomous driving. in that case, it's important to have an engineer at the helm of the company that is willing to invest in that opportunity. emily: this was on a podcast with you. were you satisfied with the answers he gave you on a range of issues? tasha: again, we were happy to
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highlight the autonomous driving piece. it is great to have a company like tesla where the ceo understands technology well enough. he spends a lot of time with the autopilot team to be able to answer these questions. i think that is not the case with traditional auto companies. there's a lot of education the needs to be done at that executive level at other firms. we were happy with the outcome and happy got to spend time with and happy to talk about this story of its more we have been focusing on so much. emily: tosha keeney along with y craig trudell, thank you both. the winner take all bid for a massive pentagon contract. we talk about why a judge is putting a lawsuit on hold while the investigations unfold. that's next. "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter. check us out @technology, and be sure to follow our global news network, @tictoc, on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪ oc, on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪
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emily: disney has pulled its advertising spending from youtube, joining other companies like nestle, after a blogger detail how comments on google video site are being used to facilitate a softcore pedophilia race. garrett joins us now and covers this. what exactly is happening here? >> the advertisers, as they have done when questionable or violent content has shown up next to some of their ads, are pulling spending. to theseomes companies, we are not sure how much is involved in this
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situation, and it is in the low thousands at least. these companies spend millions of dollars on youtube and other google properties all of the time. emily: there's a pedophilia ring on youtube? what exactly are we seeing? my understanding is that it is comments tied to certain videos. craig: a big part of this -- garrett: a big part of this is youtube's recommendation out rhythm. if the user goes to a video completely innate like a fully grown person talking about bikinis or swimwear that they bought at a store, unnecessarily watches theff, video and youtube suggests another video and another video, and pretty soon, you have in ant, although not specific nature, shows underage people reeling -- wearing revealing clothing. certain people have made specificlinking out
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moments of those videos that are potentially sexually suggestive. that is what has been going on. these videos have been out there. this was tracked by a blogger making an in-depth post --laining how this has been this, and it has been viewed thousands of times. emily: talk to us about the chain of events. it sounds like youtube did not take action until advertisers spoke up. and quicklyube went disabled commenting on some of the radios that had been pointing out. i'm sure they have a ton of people scanning through their library, making sure anything remotely connected to this is either taken down or the comments are taken away. people who were commenting those questionable things have been blocked. youtube is home to millions and millions of videos. more gets uploaded every day, and that is the fundamental
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platform problem the company has struggled with, regardless of content. on their there are people that will -- content on there. there are people that will comment things that are not acceptable and often illegal. they do not watch every video that gets uploaded to their platform before it is shown next to an ad. emily: we will continue to follow, and you will follow have this one unfolds. thank you so much for bringing us that update. i federal judge has paused a lawsuit over a potential $10 billion cloud computing contract. the contract was a deal that appeared to favor amazon, but oracle claims the process had been tainted by two dot officials tied to amazon. aftertest wrinkle comes the defense department said new information came to light about the allegation. to untangle this, naomi next, who covers -- nicks, who covers is here.us,
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what is going on here? >> oracle claims there was a department of defense staffer who works on the jedi procurement. while he was working on the procurement, amazon approached him, suggesting they were interested in buying his company. as those conversations were going on, that staffer told his bosses maybe i should recuse myself from that procurement. he later resigned as those conversations continued and rejoined amazon. thatoracle was saying is we don't know enough about that relationship and how those conversations were preceded while he was working on the jedi procurement. helping to make decisions on what type of
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strategy the pentagon would proceed with. emily: what is the judge saying here? naomi: essentially, granting a request from the government, which wants to take more time to reevaluate whether those conflicts of interest impacted the integrity of the procurement. the government asked for more time to do this after receiving more information. they did not disclose what the information is, but we know it is about potential conflicts of interest. emily: what have amazon and or is -- and oracle had to say since this development? naomi: both are not saying much about it, but it is obviously a big win for oracle. they have been claiming the procurement process is slanted in favor of amazon for months now. they first filed a challenge to the contract with the government accountability office and lost it. then, they filed a lawsuit for the claims court. they are hoping the judge will send the pentagon back to the drawing board, to redesign the
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contracts in a way that might open a more opportunities for other companies to get involved. emily: at what point do we , givenan actual decision these developments? this has been going on for a long time. naomi: and it will probably go on for quite some wartime. the pentagon previously said it would make a decision to choose a winner for the deal in april, but the timing is tricky because they're not likely to make that decision without the ruling from the judge. the judge has scheduled early april arguments and will probably make a decision after. that decision could affect how the pentagon chooses its winner. it might have to redesign the procurement, or what is likely more likely, oracle loses this challenge. emily: naomi nix, thank you so much for weighing in. coming up, a major european insurer is placing a
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emily: this is bloomberg technology. i'm emily chang in san francisco. biggest insurer is making sure is mays a role in tech xt generation of start-ups. alliance is increasing the size f its tech investment fund to $1.1 billion funds making it one of the largest in europe. what we were told about the move. for are kind of spoiled choice because now with the new und size, we can decrease our investments and also look for other companies. it's not just the investment have that spoils us for choice, it's the brand of opportunities e
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that we can deliver to the companies with whom we work together. emily: the fund has 15 deals to money in go uding jack, lemonade and a german mobile bank m-26. o talk about this and the overall tech investment andscape, we bring in an entrepreneur and resident. what do you make of the increase of corporate venture of this size in europe? yeah, i think it's a really interesting trend that seems to occurring, the corporate venture last year was about 20% deals in europe or they were in about 20% of the deals. to be movement in that direction and traditionally deal ope, a lot of the sizes have been smaller, the fund sizes have been smaller and here seems to now be an increase in the size of the fund for the first year ever. seeingeeing about, we're more $250 million plus funds funds.b$50 million
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emily: are we seeing the same trends in corporate venture in the united states? > yes, corporate venture continues to be a sizable piece of the venture landscape here it's still, in the united pretty largetill a number that i think percentagewise, there seems to v.c. going orate into deals in europe, but the number of deals is larger in the states. emily: how does that change the competitive landscape in both europe and the u.s.? well, i think you're seeing other types of capitol. in the united states specifically, there were about 8300 plus deals last year and 12 funds.ed by venture you're seeing corporate venture among other types of later stage a lot of ing into these companies. this think in europe, what allows for is the potential for more acquisitions, for a lot of
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companies to hold off on having to exit early pause they'll be able to raise later same time funding. emily: now you work at silicon valley banking which is not a raditional venture fund or bank. how does it fit into silicon valley? silicon valley bank is in a very unique position. start-ups and venture capital funds. get a ble to kind of pulse on kind of the trends that both places in because we see a lot of data with our customers. so there is also a number of i.p.o.s on the docket, i.p.o.s for this year. they s your outlook how will perform. lyft, a direct listing? >> it remains to be seen what happen. there is a lot of buzz around these companies. emily: what is different this
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last year? >> there are i.p.o.s, there were an in the u.s., europe had outsized numbers of i.p.o.s. i.p.o..ed, s that three of them with billion plus market cap. in the u.s. it was two dozen tech i.p.o.s, 2019 seems to be a where there will be potentially more tech ip.o.s as to the 10 of getting or 12-year mark with some of these companies that need to get for founders and investors. so much.hank you >> thanks for having me. emily: we'll be watching to see predictions are correct. pinterest is taking measures against misinformation and content.sial the company says it's halted search results related to this according to the "wall street journal." platform s on the returns anti-vaccination content
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held contradicts long medical guidelines. facebook recently made similar moves on its platform saying considering removing the content from his recommendation systems all together. apple is said to be ipad and its i-phone, apps, how it's a greater plan services division next. and a silicon valley veteran thoughts on the biggest issues facing tech companies today. and talks about trade tensions with china. this is bloomberg. ♪
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make it easier for software developers. he smartphone maker is reportedly planning to combine apps made for the iphone, i- mac by 21, the initiative will allow developers to build a single app that works across all devices without needing to submit their work to separate app stores. discuss, the co-host of bloomberg surveillance and bloomberg radio.s for so, paul, universal app sounds great. what is the thinking here? i think the thinking here on the part of apple is we need o make it easier for app developers to develop products and services on the i.o.s. platform on the apple across all of the products that apple supports whether it's the ipad, the iphone. right now it's a little bit tricky to develop apps across platforms. the reason they want to make it easier for app developers to iselop on the apple platform pause they're trying to drive services revenue for the
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company. he company announced, preannounced that weak carter last quarter. in large part because of the phone business continues to mature. it is no longer the growth engine for the company, so increasingly hanging their hats on the growth. services business, so to the can drive app revenue that will be supportive of that growth story. emily: how much more revenue this drive?ing like paul: it's interesting, the fastest growing part of the servicesite now is the revenue. it's only about 15% of sales right now. growing very quickly. most investors say in a world mature e phone is a product and is not growing, in fact, phone revenue is down in the last quarter for apple. really need to allocate more resources to the services business and grow that. apple takes, on average about 30% of the revenue rom an app developer's service or product and they need to continue to grow that and make t easer for app developers to develop even more services and products.
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emily: samsung has their big today.d event they have unveiled a whole new phone lineup, phones with 5g, options, a foldable phone. s this lineup going to, you know, prove to be incredibly competitive for apple given the of choice here that you don't get with the iphone? paul: yeah, exactly. samsung remains a very strong competitor to apple, particularly on the lower end of the market. think about you samsung has products throughout the price range, but where good is at thery lower end of the price range. apple has not been competitive. the resources t ehind a more competitive ly phone like the x.r. samsung has a high quality product at the low end of the is designed to compete against the x.r. that is an area where samsung room to grow.e emily: how bullish are you, phones?n foldable paul: it's interesting, what is old is new again.
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all of the phone operators are to figure out, since the market is becoming increasingly saturated, they are now the market ever morphinely to try to find areas that wth, to the extent people want a foldable phone, sam suspecting thinks there is demand there. meantime, apple has had a number of leadership changes. we can look at the changes for signals of where they think the future is going to be. replaced their head of retail, angela, is removing. they promoted the head of people to that job. a.i. promoted the head of to the head of machine learning. onnk is going to be focusing a.r. what signals do you take away here? away, the signals i take they are recognizing that the future of this company is not ust hardware, the phones, the ipads. it's in a.i. it's in augmented reality. learning.achine it's in some of the cloud businesses.
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of ess on the hardware side the business and more on kind of the software side of the business, big data cloud computing. i think that is one of the areas where i think we're starting to see them relocate, not just resources in terms of cap x but also people as well. all right, bloomberg's paul sweeney, thank you so much for weighing in there. appreciate it. despite starting three years behind the u.s. in developing the technology now boasts some of the world's biggest companies in the field, there is alley about a with its mammoth e commerce, and a strangle hold on engine. search china's internet users make up more than double the u.s. population. back at takes a look took hold in et china. >> imagine if the internet took in china. imagine how freedom would spread. >> unrestricted internet access
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a source of strength. >> that country has some of the restrictions net in the world. >> in china on intent of rictions, a number anonymous postings have poked fun at the government. >> so you think they're ltimately going to be on the right side of history, the chinese government? nobody can sure, stop this technology revolution. 1987 in west germany and a university professor has don't an email, it contains one short across the great wall, we can reach every corner of the world. he has just received the first from china. >> china is embracing the reform the pening up policies and internet and transparency of information is part of that policy. 1994 that isn't until the internet becomes available under the ic presidency. like many, he is deeply
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by the work of alvin, an american writer whose book predicts a super industrial revolution brought bout by the moderation and regulation of technology. >> computers combine facts to such high owledge at speed that we cannot absorb it. > computers are expensive and hardly anyone owns one, so the internet cafe it born. costs around 25 yuan or $3 an hour. speed was really slow. having a personal computer was a luxury. ost of the people who frequented internet cafes were the more young tech savvy enerations and they would go through and play games and chat with their friends anonymously online. in 1995, a former english teacher called jack ma heads to business.n while he is there he does a web for the word and no results about china.
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he starts an online yellow pages. >> you don't make any money. you have extraordinary claims and yet you make nothing. that's the internet. cent 1999, the company 10 jack ma o.i.c.q. and creates alibaba. t's the millennium and the golden shield project, content filtering firewalls. it's known as the great firewall of china. >> the government also employs people that actively end out social posts to shape conversations online. these people became known as the party, the joking this would earn 50 cents every time hey sent out a social media post. >> it only takes a couple more years to china to overtake the most nd have the world's internet users. 2012, orward and it's elected general secretary of the communist party with the vision
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cyber sovereignty protecting the country's internet from influence. notable restrictions include -- e as being horriblebly miserable because they can't freely.information the truth can't be more different. are 's younger generations perfectly happy inside the irewall using the domestic app that are screened. there really is a disconnect between china's younger internet users and the rest of the world firewall.f the great >> it doesn't take long for ontroversial new laws which insure cybersecurity to appear. these grant the government to foreign d access companies including their hardware and sensitive user
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data. in 2018, freedom house named china as the worst country in online freedom, but china soon starts exporting internet to he countries like vietnam, uganda tanzania. >> in 1987 when that email was china to west germany across the great wall and country in the world, it's ironic because we literallyat wall that screens and monitors everything, the vision that the internet had is very different landscape s internet today. emily: just visit bloomberg.com to watch that piece along with many, many more. meg whitman is isng to video screening, she talking about the video platform where she is the founding c.e.o.
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emily: meg whitman is turning a ex per tees to hollywood, short video platform started up catsenberg. to t down with whitman discuss the new service. >> it's so easy to look at these well, ies and now say, where did they go wrong? listen, when you are growing at become so you have ubiquitous. you do the best job you can at the time and sometimes you make mistakes. sometimes you don't see things as clearly as you might have. the question is you will make mistakes. the question is how fast do you fix them. the proof will be in the pudding. i think there is certainly a from the top of that company to fix some of the mistakes that they have acknowledged making. you navigated a historic
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split at h.p. o you think some of these companies, the big tech companies are too big for they're own good? >> i don't know. felt certainly that h.p. had to be broken into smaller nor nimble pieces. there was a time for a big i.t. super market in the 1980's and spending was ech rocketing, but then there comes a time where the industry shifts you become too big to be nimble enough to fight off the competitors that are now disrupting you. that's what we saw at h.p. i think when industries get or there is a different life cycle that you're faced with, then sometimes isller is better, not always bigger better. so we'll see. i don't think the same thing is driving this right now. know, people you are asking, is it just too big because there is too much power these companies. that's different than what we faced at h.p. emily: do you think regulation threat to these companies? >> so i think that the interested invery these companies and having been
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a politician, what i will tell know, , politicians, you they see something happen and then their instinct is, ok, what doing to regulate that industry or protect consumers. that instinct isn't necessarily wrong. to know what they're doing and be thoughtful about it. here may be a role for some regulation. emily: so of the sort of big tech companies, where do you see the biggest risk? well, i will tell you tech is moving at lightning speed. i have never seen anything quite this. in my early days in my career, you had sort of, you would see coming and you had a year or two or three to adapt. or you have a month or two three to adapt. i think the biggest challenge is innovation has shrunk dramatically. you just see these new companies come out of nowhere that disrupt very thing that you thought was safe. emily: are facebook and apple google, are they disruptable, amazon? >> i suspect they are. bezos has said some day amazon will be disrupted.
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today.d about sears 100 years ago, it was the amazon of that time. they have been disrupted. businesses is darwinian, to question about it. e-ly: when you were running bay to win china. alibaba has won china. whoever wins china wins the world. is china as important today as it was back then? >> i think china is very important. you may know that our joint venture partner in china is alibaba. be i'm just glad to be on the same time.s them this [laughter] emily: a huge market, but it's for u.s. cult entertainment industry to crack. >> china is a very unique market. unwise, i think, to try to think about going to china alone. i lived in china for four months when i was trying to fix e- bay in china. it's just completely different. a strong partner who understands that market i
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think is really important. will alibaba t provide? >> they have tremendous scale in china. mean, it's remarkable how much they have grown in the last 20 years. have a platform, theyhave alibaba pictures, have music. his he -- they have a lot of entertainment properties that we can leverage and remarkable technology. emily: what is your take on the trade tensions in the middle of a trade war? this hink maybe you know about me, i tend to be a free trader. think global trade, while there is dislocation associated with global trade is actually the right thing to do. it to be a level playing field and i'm certain there are some things we can do but honestly,ina, the free movement of goods and ideas and trade has always been thing for the united states. emily: what's at stake? listen, i think we have to be very thoughtful.
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they are the second largest economy in the world. of things that we should be doing together. is it good for every single person in every single community, no. but overall, it's the right thing to do. we as a country have to keep our what are the next industries, what are the growth i muno es, whether it's therapy or 3-d printing or a.i., the best sure we're in the world at the industries of the future, that's always made america great. emily: my interview there with meg whitman. you can catch the full interview studio 1.0. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." we are live streaming on twitter. you can check us out at follow our nd breaking news network on tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg.
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haidi: a very good morning in sydney. shery: good evening from new york. so forth 'm so forth from hong kong, welcome to day break asia. haidi: our top stories, a mixed nothing to d does alter the view of its policy path this year. with the latest minutes showing to ers are committed patience and want to end the balance sheet runoff this ye
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