♪ denise: >> welcome to bloomberg businessweek. i'm carol massar. >>i am jason kelly. we are here at bloomberg headquarters in new york. >> this six issue is focused on an equality and how inequality damages of businesses and culture. >> will examine widespread dissemination against transgender workers. we start with a cover story. one of instead of taking the sat, you got to play video game checkout wax it sounds like fun.

a startup aims to level the playing field when it comes to college admissions. and it are joel weber joins us now. i have to tell you, we love the ceo. joel: this is a timely one. in the wake of the college of message scandal, this is a story we had brewing for a while. we had it for the right time. let's talk about how we can get things going forward. rebecca cantor has this big idea that could totally reframe how education works in schools. she is brilliant. we are lucky to have her in our podcast this weekend. she wants to figure out how to measure how people think. joel: it's bigger than video games. you thinkm, when about the emissions scandal, when it comes back to is the sat or azt. those of the north stars. when you program schools around that, you end up with standardized testing that goes all the way down through middle

schools and elementary schools. she said, what if we rethought what the north star is? that is how it can about. then, how do we talk about kids in a way that they understand. video games. carol: we spoke with the founder , rebecca cantor. rebecca: we don't have a meritocracy right now. we think we do. because all of our kids work hard in our schools and often times, kids of the top 30 colleges are released mark -- really smart, high achievers. i can give you two examples that will make the system better. have a la power standards for college admissions be based on a relative growth metric. meaning, if you are a four-star or lower, your expectations of what you should be like when you're in 12th grade is lower. if you started 20 squares ahead like i did, the bar for what you have to do to get into college is higher. that's -- that make people score me. it's like, shouldn't all caps have the same hopes and dreams

of potential? a should, but our system is not delivering that. thinking about a relative metric. some college admissions officers are doing this. they're looking at your zip code and looking at your race and gender and making a decision about how impressive what you have overcome is. we don't have a standardized metric. -- metric. about what weink are measuring. the sats started as an iq test. invented by the same folks who worked on the iq tests and the army alpha tests around the turn of the 20th century. it has migrated over the last century, along with the azt, for testing student testing. it change from the student aptitude test to the student achievement test. when you think about that shift, it means more money and preparation. underscores. that's not just in the last -- better scores. were you born into a good school district or a good private school?

you are paying for an advantage for your entire childhood. if we wanted to try to undo some of the inequality that is systemic, you can look at having more diverse school district, school zoning that doesn't cut across one affluent area, that is more encompassing. you would like a testing skills. that could be picked up in a number of settings, not just at school, but a job. fortunately, it makes it a zero-sum game. there only a limited number of spots. it is uncomfortable to think, especially as someone who is progressive and enjoyed by upbringing and was so fortunate to be looked to go to a place like harvard and apply to these other schools, you have to think

about maybe i wasn't the most deserving person to go. for a parent who has worked hard to get their kids that point, that is a hard thought. whether or not we are at an inflection point is that any on how honestly want to be. jason: are you seeing any elements of people starting to change their mind? i would say first and foremost, there are some entrenched interests and inertia and the system that is reasonable. that's there for a reason. you don't want anyone to come in and wipe out tests that have been validated and have been relied upon for decades as a fair assessment of merit. it doesn't mean that everyone agrees. it certainly how they have been used. enter want the bar to this new testing arena, if we are going to see new tests, to be high. that said, there are problems that standardized testing has most recently been lambasted for. technology can help solve that. in my mind, it is on excusable

that it is not being attentive -- attempted. whether it is new -- removing proctors or educating that you are who you are, the problem is these tests are problem -- paper-based. if they are not, they are loading them onto an ipad. how hard is that for two kids to come up with a scheme, that will allow them to cheat the test. kids are smart. not using state-of-the-art technology to think about how to the the system fair is first challenge that the big testing codes will need to take on. we've chosen to take it on. carol: tell us about what responses you are hearing and what inroads you are making. ears who these resonate with, when they hear the approach of three education to employment is employers. poll is a bloomberg next that shows about 40% of students feel they are prepared for work

when they leave the entire education system. 40% of employers feel students are prepared. of college providers feel their students are prepared. there is little bit of a synchronicity in terms of where perceptions are in a value of an educational experience and an employment experience. it's not unreasonable. there are probably some colleges that prepare kids for work and life. there are others that don't. what has to happen now, and what we are seeing, is employers have to take the lead on things, saying here are the skills that are becoming more important in an age where human intelligence is involving higher order thinking skills and machine intelligence is doing the lower order ones. we have to see collaborative problem-solving. we have to see people who can imagine and create. it is suitable that consider the size quickly with new information, they can build a cogent argument. there is some of that in standardized testing today. it is a myopic they -- view.

it's a little bit of argument supported by evidence. the challenges, how often are we dealing with a static system where everything is written down and there is no changing no rules or information. never. you need technology that can bring forward the employers' desires into the education market as a reality in a tried and tested tool as an educational standard. that's what makes our job hard. gos not a quick process to out and find those definitions of skills that matter. i would say that argument of bringing the employers into the conversation about how their work has changed, what the future will require, and bringing that back, many parents caleb -- care. carol: what is your goal? rebecca: my goal is to set a higher floor for high schools. know that some schools will do a crappy job teaching differently. it's no fault of theirs. there also is of systemic problems that make it hard to teach. if you can believe some of the pressure around content, and

little around teaching somebody different modules of ap biology or science curriculum or history curriculum, not get rid of it, just reduce it, and focus on some concepts, may be some schools choose to bring that to life with solar powered go kart races. other schools in pasadena choose to have kids in turn at jpl for a few weeks. it's best for those kids. i want to test that we deliver to be generalizable enough that their progress shows up. that we recognize what they have. it doesn't mean that all kids that do well on an sat will do poorly on our test. maybe some kids who are total diamonds in the rough, who are out there, slogging through a lot of content that the way and for them, maybe there is a way to recognize some of the skills they have going on behind the scenes, whether they got that in a job after school or watching a sibling or over a summer. i hope that our tests are able to set a new north star for the system. carol: for more of our chat with imbellus founder, rebecca kan

tar, check out our podcast or bloomberg.com. jason: where on the globe you're going to be a master of your own fate and where you are likely to stay poor if you're born that way. carol: plus, where old habits die hard and sometimes don't die at all. we will talk about the sexually harassing men at the london insurance market. jason: this is bloomberg businessweek. ♪

carol: in the quality issue, a study on how inequality leads to slower economic growth. jason: the key to solving this may be access to education. check out this chart. it shows very clearly that economic mobility as we describe it, as we like to think about it here in the u.s., is not happening. here's the u.s. in the middle. you have to go way up to finland, sweden, and canada to

really see a situation where folks can really rise beyond it -- where their parents were. carol: countries where children are less likely to be locked into their parents educational paths were also less likely to be locked into their income levels. there's deathly a correlation. we spoke with jeanna smialek for more. >> one of the stories that stood out to meet was about this girl named kerry collins. -- 30's. hurley story she lives in new york city and she has had a classic story of growing up in a situation that might have been opportunity restricting. she was born in flatbush in the 90's. it wasn't the worst place. she deathly remembers hearing gunshots and having some crime in our neighborhood. she definitely wanted to get out of there. she was born to a single mom. she was unemployed a lot. they mostly lived on the grandma's pension. her mama always encouraged her to make more of yourself and move up the income ladder.

terry excelled in school. she ended up getting a scholarship and studying at union college. while she was in college, her mom died. she ended up being completely alone. she graduated and had a degree in 2011. the economy was bad. she had to settle whatever she could take because she knew to support herself. at 22, she finds herself working in sales. she did that for nine years. now she has enrolled in an i.t. training education program. somes learning how to do basic technology skills. she is hoping to get onto the ladder that way. her story speaks to, even when you don't write things, even hard,ou are trying really if you have a situation behind you where you don't have a lot of the support that people in more affluent and more stable households might have, it can be hard.

carol: you talk about this bigger theme that is going on, that folks, individual students, are more likely to earn the same incomes as their parents in places with higher income inequality. that is certainly something we are facing in the united states and elsewhere. that is a bigger thing that is going on. alan krueger came up with that title when he was at the council for economic advisers. it's an interesting points to keep in mind. we do see greater intergenerational stickiness. that means that this lottery of birth, where you're born affects how your life plays out, is so much more important in these places. if you are born at the bottom -- bottom of the latter come with the bottom of the letter is much your, there's a good chance will stick there and not climb up. jason: what do you take away in terms of what needs to happen structurally, systemically?

jeanna: one of the studies are referenced comes out of the international monetary fund. they find that in these places we are talking about, with low economic mobility and high economic inequality, you see lower growth. those things paired together seem to hurt the country's potential. the idea is that if you have a lot of kids who might be really innately talented, who are born at the bottom of the income scale and they don't have the access to opportunity, you might see a real loss of talent. you're not tapping all of your potential. this plays out on the road. you see the growth get mired in the mud. carol: also in the inequality of issue, the old boys of lloyd. jason: we're talking about the london, a bigf insurance market. carol: they still do business the old-fashioned way, face to face dealmaking, pen and paper. jason: it bloomberg businessweek investigation uncovered a

deep-seated culture of sexual misconduct and an atmosphere of relentless harassment. here's reporter gavin finch. >> the last several months, i've spoken to 18 women who work at lloyds and the wider insurance industry. the picture they paint is of a market that is hostile to women. there is persistent sexual harassment. across the whole range, from unwanted comments about appearance or their bodies or their sex lives, to touching, groping and serious sexual assault. jason: one of the things that the outgoing ceo sought to do theban alcohol, given checking on the job, because that was an element that seemed to be contributing to this environment. that the not go over so well. gavin: the ban on alcohol during

working day was only so the corporation -- before the corporation stuff. -- staff. the majority of the people who work there are not employed by the corporation. there employed by big insurance companies who go there to do their work. it is certainly fair to say that the majority of the issues that were raised to me by the women i spoke to, there is caused -- casuse for most of htethem with alcohol. it's the last corner of the city where you can get away with daytime tricking. it's not only allowed, but condoned. it's a sociable market where people are making deals on the floor of lloyds, and they're going to the pubs and back to their offices and there may be going back to the pub and back to lloyd's. plan tohat does lloyd's

do? especially because the ceo took it up as if they cause and she is on her way out. gavin: she is gone now. the concern is amongst women who remain in the market. their great champion has left. diversity and equality issues that she was pushing will fall back down the border -- order of importance. the new ceo said to bloomberg it was very distressing, that this bind the behavior was still going on. takes an extremely serious a, and he will be taking to the market to ensure these types of behavior are stamped out. jason: as this may be more persuasive than people know across this city? how isolated is it? gavin: it seems to be a problem that is lloyd's pretty much at , not across the

city. it seems to be particularly acute at lloyd's. and the wider london insurance market. we spoke to a number of women who have international experience and have strength working in bank and -- banking, webb moved to london to work in insurance. they all said, this is a problem to london. it's a london, insurance-based problem. up next, jason: mark lowery tells us what he sees and vesting after -- opportunities things to the coming economic slowdown. carol: i can tell you had a fun conversation with him. this is "bloomberg businessweek." [laughter] -- ♪

jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek," i'm jason kelly. carol: and i'm carol massar. you can listen to us on a radar on sirius xm channel 119, and on and 11 30 in new york. 106.1 in boston.

dc jason:ashington and 960 in the bay area, and landed on dab digital and through the bloomberg does act. carol:carol: co-founder march larry stop by the business sports on it. jason: i talked about market stress and where he may find a silver lining during the economic slowdown. >> there's a lot of stress in the market. what i mean by that is last year, the economy grew at greater than 3%. today, where will it grow? is it 1.5, 2.5? a 20 oray, that will be 30% reduction in growth. you don't have a recession, what everyone is focused on, but we have is a slowdown. for us, what we do on the credit side, a slowdown is great. there's a lot of different opportunities that are out there that we can take advantage of today. jason: let's dig it down a level deeper. what sectors are you interested in? retail is something that people keep saying may experience more

stress or distress. marc: you have opportunities on the retail side. you have opportunities on the energy side. you are seeing that continue. you have a lot of idiosyncratic opportunities, where specific situations that we are able to come in on, where we have been able to buy debt. iu have one situation today, will mention a name, but bonds are due in 2023. that's the senior debt. in 2021. debt is due there is 2 billion and market cap. as bonds are trading at 75. you will get paid off. will go 75 to par and a span of two years. you've a lot of that in the u.s.. a ton of it in europe. much more in asia. for us, lots of opportunity. will go 75 to par and a span of two years. jason: you were pretty early on a relative basis to this asset class. it feels like more and more people are coming in. or the demand,

for this type of investment from institutional investors enough to absorb all of these new managers? marc: there are. there are more and more people doing what we are doing. that's fine. competition is fine. what it means is if we see things earlier than others, we will come in and start buying but we have bought and we can get out. i like competition. i think were usually ahead of the curve. the more people there, they take us out and that they are taking much more risk. jason: we've talked about politics before. you've always been interested in that. as we going to 2020, a lot of the rhetoric, especially from the democratic side, but you have supported, talking about more scrutiny of wall street, more questions about income inequality and how much do you worry about additional scrutiny on your business and on broader wall street? marc: i think it's fine to have

scrutiny. at times, we get a low bit of a bad rap. the vastok at it, majority of everyone on wall street is constantly doing the right thing. you should have the discussions. at the end of the day, you want to talk about these things. to be honest, i don't think it's an issue. carol: let's continue the conversation. taylor riggs is with us. she is in a look at the credit market. let's come into my terminal here. what we have in white are the triple c credits. those are some of the worst rated companies. outperformseen those , which is a move down, a spread compression. that is counterintuitive. typically, an improving economy, you would see that white line compressed lower. mark last three said credit could still perform well in a slowing economy. it makes sense. you can see that white line, as

long as the economy does ok, compress and move down. that means prices are rising and yields are falling. jason: he is just one of many wall street titans and business leaders participating in our fifth annual march madness reckitt for a cause. here is who he is playing alongside. you know these names. carol: talk about the money that is being raised. jason: we have been doing this for five years. we are going to raise an excess of 500 thousand dollars, meaning the winner gets 50% of their profits directed for their charity. they will be getting a check for two to $50,000. -- $250,000. carol: we will have highlights on bloomberg.com throughout the month. about tothe company become the first large industrial name within openly gay ceo. jason: plus, the state where you will see more women at the board table. carol: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪

♪ jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek," i'm jason kelly. carol: and i'm carol massar. still had in this week's a quality issue, they did in helping chinese men have kids. jason: and the real struggles of change gender workers across the country. carol: we start in california. but it of this year, all public up it is based there will be required to have at least one woman on their board. and her is here with us.

we have a chart. you have this great data visualization that folks can check out. joel: i call this the room for improvement chart. if we look specifically at california, the state has recently passed a law that a public company based in will have toy 2021 start having a significant number of women on board. right now, there are very few women on board. -- boards. we try to show you the gap and where you will see the displacement start to happen as more companies put women on boards. carol: it shows you there is a lot to be done. joel: if you want to learn more about this, we did a longer story, a company in the graphic, that extrapolates what it would aok like if this went to bigger national movement. how many more seats might become occupied by women, which is an important topic, because when you look at the makeup of boards in the u.s., we are talking about male and older.

we can dramatically transform what corporate boards look like. that's the heart of the equality issue. carol: the dive on bloomberg.com. jason: another story, speaking of governance and leadership, a story about dow chemical. maybe not the company you would expect to be on the forefront. parting waysont, on april 1. dow chemical is an interesting one to look at. it has a gay ceo. this is after tim cook, the most prominent leader of a public company to begin a. it's not just their at the top. it permeates throughout the company. it's a company, that michigan, not a place that you think of as a bastion for gay rights or a quality, and yet, the company's culture has embraced a more forward -- a way forward. carol: i love the title.

joel: i think of this as important culture story. thesee think about all of places that a quality plays out, culture is the thing that sometimes is the most difficult to change. it's a case study in how a company has been able to do that. jason: you assigned the story to someone who knows this company back from his days as a beat reporter emma my covering this little town of midlands, michigan. that is jeff green. ofthe company has a history hiring women and minorities and such, because if they were a good chemist, herbert dow did not care what you look like or who you were as long as you could do chemistry. that was his thing. let's do this and not so much care about the other social morals of the day. the foundation of the company was disruptive. this backdrop.

people start coming into the company who had been previously in the closet, come into this company out and no one cares. this is going back 20 years. we talked to some people, when they first formed their employer research group, they met at someone's house in 2000 and he to they, we should go company and ask them for same-sex benefits, because that was just starting. meeting.they were sure what was going to happen. they formed a group that is now called the lad, gay-lesbian allies at dow. they went to the company, and they said, we should have same-sex benefits. the company said, ok, we will look at it. and they said ok. jason: tell us about federer leading the significance and the process. -- fidderling. he knew he was gay in college. he stayed in the closet through

most of his dow career. he did not rush out. in 2008, he started telling people closest to him. as he was promoted, he decided that he needed to broaden this. 14, he realizes -- in 2014, he realizes it is sending the wrong message to other workers at this high level, that people are inferring or have a good idea that is gay, that is not openly gay. hecoming out day in 2014, goes on an employee webcast and comes out. he says he is been with the company for 30 years and then with his partner for 20 years. it's time for the two to be part of my work identity. this is when it comes together. he is not the ceo at this time. he is still two jobs below ceo. -- you could infer at some companies, that is where he would be ending his career, and that point. that is not what happened. carol: he still says there is

more to be done at the company. adding anbout inclusion goal to top executive bonus structures. their bonuses construct -- contingent on making sure there is adversity and inclusion in whatever they oversee. jeff: it's part of the conversation now. it's not necessarily this percentage for this at this point, it's an evolving conversation. have, right before he took the job, over hired their first inclusion and diversity executive. they have a focus on making this a broader mandate across the company. there is some work to do. there is still only about 20% and percent women -- 27% women. the minority population is 21% rated as you go up, the numbers go down. jason: we heard a lot from jeff green about the culture of the company and how that is changed. we should also remember, dow-dupont is a massive

important company. taylor riggs, back with us. help us understand what is going on. taylor: it's a massive company and about a change. i have rated by the percent of revenue contribution to the total company. dow-dupont gets about 28% of their revenue from packaging, 70% from industrials, down to about 5% of electronics. what you have seen is every major segment is conducted into growth. they're going anywhere from 6-20% of sales. sometimes it is good if you can get sizable scope. will separate. it might help them target in individual niche. they're so diversified. carol: we see that happened a lot around corporate america. they're focusing on the business is that make sense being together. next, the states looking to break up a big tech. jason: plus, the proposed megadeal that exposes a grim

outlook for europe's banks. carol: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪

jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek," i'm jason kelly. carol: and i'm carol massar. join us for bloomberg businessweek every day on the radio from two-5 p.m. wall street time. you can catch up on our daily show, just check out our podcast. jason: find us online at business week.com and on our mobile app. it's the technology says -- in the technology section, an effort by state attorney general to break up big tech companies. carol: we talk about the fight brewing in california and washington. there are a number of attorneys general that think there are problems with tech companies being too big and having too much market power, having too much control over consumer data. dot my colleague wanted to

was check in, because there hasn't been much talk about what the attorneys general are doing since september, when a group of them met with jeff sessions, who is the attorney general at the time, and sessions had called them and because he was concerned that the platforms were espousing conservative views, but a number of these attorneys general steered the conversation and told the market dominance and privacy issues. we've also heard that a group of those states have since taken a further step in -- and artistic getting antitrust action against google in particular. that hasn't been disclosed before. jason: we do seem to be at this moment of the last 18 months or so where we are doing a broad ownview or revision of our view as a society of what role these companies are holding. what happened? peter: i think probably be 2016 election happened. that really starkly made people realize the dark side of

technology in terms of it having the capability to affect people's perception of reality. it also broke across partisan lines. you have conservatives that are concerned about the suppression of free speech and you have people on the other side that are concerned about the market dominance and privacy issues.as we reported in the story ted cruz sent a tweet and said the only time i've ever retreated elizabeth warren. antitrustwith them on or the market power. carol: this is not the first time people have rallied or railed against big technology. i think about all of the states that what against microsoft in the late 1990's. this is akin to that? peter: there is a real president. it is that antitrust -- precedents. it is that antitrust case that was bought against microsoft that led to the rise of google. before that antitrust case,

microsoft had a for your hand to bundle its own search engine with its operating system. did not resultse in microsoft being broken up, it did force the company to change its behavior. a lot of people are pointing out the parallels today of similar scrutiny and google should have the same effects in allowing new competitors to emerge. carol: and the finance section, european banks have yet to recover from the financial crisis. jason: the proposed merger between deutsche bank and commerzbank could it -- could be the start of a long and painful process. >> you have these two large institutions to the bigger banks that have basically been in a painfully reorganization progress. they've not been able to tackle a longer-term decline in revenue and profitability. therehe last six months,

have been increasing speculation that this would happen. notwithstanding the fact that there are lots of observers that point to the fact that putting these two institutions together, which affect and commerzbank, isn't going to help tackle the individual and combined weaknesses, which are namely that deutschen bank brings to the table, that is inefficient. of course, the two combined institutions would still be extremely exposed to the interest rate cycle, which europe is in negative territory right now, but also, to a german commercial banking industry that is conditionally competitive. carol: i felt like it was one thing after another that is pushing back against european financial sector. you talked about low rates and rising costs. there's competition from fundtech -- fin tech. brexit is having an impact.

more broadly is this failure to create a banking union across the region. that hasn't happened. it's so fragmented. elisa: you have the bigger institutions in germany that still control a fraction of the market. the estimates out there at the moment .2 deutsche bank and commerzbank together having 10 or 15% market share. that leaves behind the hundreds of savings and holding lenders that they compete with. companies, savings and lenders that don't actually need to make a large profit as privately owned institutions. this combination of the two institutions would do little to change that. theou say, that is part of remnants of the banking union which hasn't happened. you still have very distinct locals and distinct regulators that still have a say and how these institutions run

and how the market can compete. jason: what happens from here? elisa: i don't think there is a sense here that there's going to be a massive appetite to expand in europe, given the structural inefficiency that remain and the unfinished project, which is the bank union. even within the eurozone, the 19 countries, they don't have a single deposit insurance guarantees game, for example. -- guarantee scheme, for example. that means they don't trust each other following, -- fully. that gives you the sense of how fragmented it is. jason: earlier this week, at the global solutions some it in berlin, german chancellor angela merkel spoke with bloomberg editor in chief about the potential merger between deutsche bank and commerzbank. >> absolutely a decision of private business. with all of the challenges and opportunities and risks and only the players themselves, only the

stakeholders themselves can evaluate that. we sometimes have government and the banking sector invested there. it's not something that is foreign. i'm waiting for the players to get the final say on this. carol: check out more at german chancellor angela merkel's conversation with bloomberg editor in chief john micklethwait. go to bloomberg.com. coming up next, the fight for transgender employees rights and the decision facing the u.s. up in court. jason: plus, the digging up helping gay couples have children. carol: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ carol: welcome back to

"bloomberg businessweek," i'm carol massar. jason: and i'm jason kelly. you can also listen to us in the radio on sirius xm channel 119, also a.m. 11 30 in new york, 1061 in boston, 91 fm in

washington dc carol: and 960 in the bay area. on london and dg digital in on boomer business app. jason: and the quality issue, carol:espread dissemination facing transgender people. the decision facing the supreme court on whether or not to expand -- extend protections. >> amy stevens is nearly 60. for most of her life, she was known to coworkers including her boss at the funeral home that -- male, as mail and and she made a decision with the help from our wife and their pest, after decades of wrestling with this, to come out as a trans women. she came to the realization that she was a trans woman. if you years later, it was something that she wasn't willing to keep to herself at work anymore. she wasn't willing to wait to go

to the bathroom when she knew no one else was there. she knew to wear male clothing and be treated as though she were male. boss throughto her a letter that she wrote. she enclosed her their best's visit -- their best'-- thereapist's business card, and a couple of weeks later, she was fired. --, her case should end up could end up redefining how federal laws interpret it across the country about how it is legal to fire someone because their trans. jason: tell us about her whation to launch this, has become a series of legal actions and as you say, this has gone up and up, because she had didn't have to. she made a conscious decision pretty quickly after her dismissal, that she was going to fight it. josh: she says it is about

everybody that is in the human race, being treated equally and fairly. she made a phone call the same day that she was terminated to the aclu. she was meeting with them by monday. districtlost at the court level, but she won at the appeals court level. sixthestion is, will that circuit precedent setting appeals ruling in her favor stay in place or will it be taken up and additionally overturned by the u.s. supreme court? while there is some concern among the advocates about the current makeup of the supreme court, that her case could be used to eliminate transgender protections in circuits where amy stevens says she has no regrets that she would do it again, because it was the right thing to do. carol: you talk about unemployment, or the on implement rate according to one survey, among the transgender population, already higher than most. josh: in a survey, it was 15% at

a time when the overall unemployment rate was much lower. trans people, trans advocates, say that determination is pervasive. the attorney for the michigan aclu, who has been working with amy, told me that, when he started the job more than a decade ago, mostly, they got calls from gay and lesbian workers. many people may not have thought there was a chance of winning on behalf of a transgender employee. he says, now, most of the calls they get are from trans people. carol: also, in the equality issue, it chinese gay dating app is evolving from helping to people meet to helping them find circuits and the u.s. to help other families. jason: beijing is not known for supporting the lgbtq community, but this company may help china

with its demographic problem. >> a friend of mine, about a year ago said, you have to write about this company.. she works in public health. she said, they do all this work with the government in intake -- anti-hiv stuff, and they're also going to stay program where they help gay guys go overseas and have babies by surrogate in the u.s.. i'm like, that sounds a story. it starts with the founder of the company. he decided, he started this app, for gay men, it's a gay dating app. it's a community at. it's not just about hooking up. it's an china, where outside of the big cities, it's still not cool to be out and proud. has really made a big

difference for communities outside the big cities. that, after 35, he got baby fever. he wanted to have a baby. he did some research and figured out that it was illegal in china. it is also a legal in thailand which had been a popular place. surrogacy is illegal in china. guy, it is a gay hard to do anything as a single parent. he decided to go to california and have a baby by surrogate. when he came back, he bought the baby home and thought, i'm going to start this is a business, an offshoot of my dating app. carol: he had a baby, a son, and california. what is his son -- was his son a chinese or american citizen? i'm curious about those dynamics. the babies are born in the

u.s., so they automatically have u.s. citizenship. china,ey go back to there is an arcane system in china that continues to be problematic for even regular chinese people, without surrogate babies, which is, you have a residency permit, and you have to get it from your parents'hometown, which is often not with a live, and it is very complicated. for ais no clear route parent of a baby born by surrogate to get that. they can sometimes they work it for a lot of these gay men who are having children by surrogate, it's an advantage to have a u.s. passport/ they wereause developing themselves into a chinese system that is biased against them for not being a part of a normal family. they are thinking long-term, that they will move abroad with their child and sent into to an

international school anyway, just to be in an environment that fits them better. carol: bloomberg businessweek is available on newsstands now. jason: and also available on our mobile app and blues this week.com. carol: the must-read is about lloyd's of london. who knew how egregious it was for women to work in the u.k. insurance industry specifically at lloyd's of london. it such a well told and well-written story. it sounds like to me to generation and movement has yet to catch up at lloyd's of london. jason: it's hard to read. worth the time. i loved the cover. walked into our studio and we didn't want to let her go. she is so dynamic. would recommend our extended podcast, because she goes into the whole theory and how this is a long game. lucky for her, she's 27. she will be at it for some time.

carol: you can find more stories on businessweek.com over the weekend. jason: check out our daily businessweek podcast. it's available on itunes, sevcon and bloomberg.com. carol: more bloomberg television starts now. ♪

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welcome'm emily chang, to the best of bloomberg technology, we bring you all at the top interviews from this week in tech. coming up, the roadshow picks up this week as the ride hailer gears up for what could be the best u.s. public debut this year. we will discuss the prospects with some early investors. in theate officials are early stages of a probe into google, focused on antitrust and privacy in the largest cord n