carol: welcome to a special edition of "bloomberg businessweek." i'm carol massar. jason: and i'm jason kelly. we are in los angeles at the milken institute global conference. carol: it is an annual gathering of the most influential people in business, finance, economics, commerce, innovation media, and much more. jason: it has been a busy week. we sat down with people like the bp ceo. he was here to talk about

energy. carol: we also sat down with the former whole foods co-ceo. also, the u.s. transportation secretary. jason: also, not to flex, but the edge. joining us now, joel weber. what is this all about? joel: a chance for you to hang out with edge. as many times as possible. this is a massive dealmaker conference. there is programming on main stages, side rooms. opportunities and big thoughts, but it's a chance for a bunch of important people to get together and figure out how they want to deploy capital. jason: it has been named davos of the west. it is the creation of mike milken, a legendary financier, philanthropist, sort of like being in his brain. joel: that is right. it connects a lot of different pieces. you mentioned that media quotient. there has been a lot of food

conversations. crazy stuff like a whole thing on psychedelics. so all of these things converge and creates this high -- when you are thinking about how you are going to invest a lot of money, this is a chance to figure out what the next big thing is. carol: that's what people say. someone in real estate has the opportunity to go to a food or drug panel, something they might not normally attend. joel: that is right. and figure out the entrepreneurs in the space and what the edge might look like, to bring it back to the edge. to bring it back to the edge. [laughter] jason: thank you so much. one of the big names we caught up with was steve schwarzman, ceo, cochairman of blackstone. he talked to me about the fed, taxes, where the markets may be going next. we talked a couple weeks ago about earnings. the big news was your conversion to a corporation, which sounds a little wonky. yet, it has been a really big deal for the stock, not just yours but the rest of the industry, why? steve: in terms of hours, it makes good sense.

there are probably two times to three times the number of people have been able to buy our stock but could not. so we have been using k-1 statements. by getting rid of those and converting to the normal 1099, we can take advantage of that huge additional buying power. logic should say that if more people want to buy you, your stock will go up. jason: what have people said to you in the aftermath? it has been a couple of weeks, and are you hearing from a different class of investors? is your phone ringing from different people? actually saw you. so you have a certain magic. i should come on frequently. jason: anytime. steve: the other firms have gone up, as well.

not the same amount, obviously, but i think it is the market looking and saying if that worked for blackstone, then probably the other firms will follow. jason: tim geithner over the weekend was talking about the strength of the economy, the bull market we have been in for a long time. he said the only thing we have to avoid is a dumb mistake. what could be a dumb mistake that we collectively could make from a policy decision or market decision? steve: well, i think there are a lot of mistakes you could always make. i think if there is really dramatic change in the tax area, if the democrats win, for example, if a lot of the things some of their candidates are talking about, i think that would be -- it would be sort of a disincentive and could have a certain psychological shock value. logic we say that would slow an economy. that is one of the things you can do. the other thing is that the fed could increase interest rates. i have not seen for at least a

decade a fed that is unresponsive to the real world and maybe even earlier. people worry so much about the fed doing the wrong thing. even if you start making a mistake and correct it almost right away, which is what happened as a result of the october 3 response, that the fed is the guardian of the system. they are not the enemy of the system. if we have a lot of wage inflation or something else, him which seems somewhat unlikely, but it may start increasing interest rates. most probably it is because it

is the smart thing to do. it is only when they get out of a cycle where they think something is happening that is not, and then prosecute it all the way. i tend not to think the people there are in the business of making mistakes. carol: up next, how some of the wealthiest americans view private markets. my conversation with the bny mellon wealth management ceo. jason: should you be afraid of a recession? my conversation with the brookfield ceo. carol: then something fun. how to spend a million dollars on art. this is "bloomberg businessweek ," at milken. ♪

carol: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." i am carol massar. jason: i'm jason kelly. join us every day on the radio from 2:00 until 5:00 p.m. wall street time.

also, catch up on our daily show by listening and subscribing to our podcast at itunes, soundcloud and bloomberg.com. carol: you can find us online at businessweek.com and on our mobile app. here i hosted a real estate panel with some of the most prolific names in the industry. we are talking about tom barrick, jonathan goldstein, michael melton, and robert morris, and brian kingston. brian kingston joined me for a one-on-one conversation. brian: we are in the midst of one of the longest recoveries and will probably be the longest recovery in u.s. history in a couple of months. clearly, we are later in the cycle. offering environment is very strong. we have strong gdp growth, low unemployment, low interest rates, and supply in most of the major real estate sectors.

it is at historic lows relative to long-term trend. carol: you see that continuing? brian: i see that continuing. that's a favorable backdrop for investing in real estate. carol: you closed a really big fund this year. i am curious, what is your next big target acquisition when it comes to realistic? brian: our fund is a $15 billion fund with a global mandate, so we can invest around the world. probably about half of that is going to be invested in the u.s. the other half will be really around the world. carol: 30 countries overall, right? brian: 30 countries, that is right. carol: is there anywhere in particular that you see good opportunities? brian: we do like the u.s. we had a very high quality portfolio of assets. in the northeast and in california. it's going to benefit from that favorable macro backdrop i talked about. we have projects going on all over. we are about to close a big transaction in shanghai and we are very active in europe as well. we are seeing good opportunities around the world. carol: let's talk about the

mall, because we have had some fun talking about yesterday. how many times have people gone up to you and said, the mall is dead? we have talked about this. the generation z's like shopping at malls. you made a big acquisition with the second-largest mall operator in the united states. what is the future of the mall? brian: there is no question we are going through a period of adjustment within the retail sector. it is creating a challenging upper an environment, but in the long run, great real estate always wins. we own 100 of the 400 talk -- top shopping centers in the united states. we enjoy 96% occupancy. carol: how do you do that? is that they are in busy, populated cities, and that makes it a success story? brian: that is the starting point. obviously with real estate, location is really important. our malls are located in densely populated urban areas.

the other important thing is we very actively manage these assets. it is not a simple buy and hold strategy on a long-term basis. we need to continuing the invest in the assets and keep them relevant. jason: speaking of brookfield, i i sat down with the ceo of the firm. you can almost call him the warren buffett of canada. the reason he is so important and this firm is so important right now is they are nipping at the heels of blackstone in terms of assets managed around the world. they have property everywhere from lower manhattan, canary wharf in london, infrastructure everywhere. carol: that's something you have really dug into with it. jason: absolutely. they are on the forefront of trying to figure out if these public-private partnerships will work. here's what we had to say. >> inevitably, all infrastructure will transfer into private hands, but until

the point that governments are either stretched, or governments and the individuals who run them are pushed, it's easier not to do it. because people yell at you when they have to pay for the toll on the road they did not have to pay for. it is going to be slow in the oec countries, but it's coming in eventually. him and jason: do you see a lot of opportunity outside the united states for infrastructure, and is there still appetite for that investment? >> yes, there is a lot. the largest business in the world's real estate. the second-largest is the infrastructure it's all built on, so these are enormous businesses. when i say it is slow, there are still incredible amounts of infrastructure being privatized all around the world. in fact, much, much more outside of the united states because it was not natural to get it. governments do not have the money. therefore, they are going to skip the steps of government ownership and going right to

private infrastructure. that's occurring today and increasingly around the world. jason: when you look across your business is, real estate, or private equity, and no credit with the partnership, what worries you the most in 2019? where are you seeing warning signs? >> we don't see big issues in the economy out there. clearly, valuations are higher than they were 10 years ago, seven years ago, five years ago, three years ago, a year ago in the stock market. interest rates look like they are going up but they don't look like they are going up at the current time. those are the things that could disrupt the markets. when that happens, how it happens, that is a political issue. i say when we are investing into long businesses, you generally don't -- as long as you pick good countries -- you don't get too concerned about short-term government. jason: one of the political issues out there that i know is in one of your backyards, or front yards, is brexit going on in the u.k. maybe it will happen, maybe it won't.

you have been pretty clear that the affect on your business has been at a minimum so far. still true? >> yes. i would say most of our businesses in the u.k. today are doing well. i think longer-term, the u.k. will still be a great place to invest. in the short term, there is no doubt this is disruptive and not helpful for business. like all countries, they will see it through. carol: here at milken, one of the fun parts is ceos from all walks of life, a lot of financial folks, investors, but you also get people from different and distinct industries. jason: you caught up with someone i was fortunate enough to moderate a panel with about asset management, and it took a similar turnaround what is the story of excess ability finance and investing? carol: here is the conversation with bny mellon ceo of wealth management. we got into that and also about the state of the overall u.s.

financial markets. >> we really work with two groups of clients and wealth management, your core wealthy family, and family offices, which are very much like institutions. when you think about the alternative space, that has changed a him lot over the last two decades. today there are more private equity backed companies in the u.s. than there are. -- then there are public companies. the whole spectrum of private equity investing has changed. 20 years ago, it might have been buyout and venture, today you have a buyout, growth capital, venture, private equity, even a secondary market today. there are a lot more choices. our clients are generally comfortable with private markets because that is how they tend to become

wealthy themselves through their own private businesses. they are cognizant of the cycle, valuations, money that has been raised in private equities. i trillion seven in the last two years, and multiples getting close to 11, so it is a question of selective notice. -- selectiveness. carol: i am curious, is the u.s. still kind of a favored destination for some of these ultrahigh net worth individuals when it comes to investments? are they looking more overseas? where do they want to be? >> it depends. the u.s. is roughly half of the public capital market, but our clients have liabilities denominated in dollars. you tend to see a home bias to the u.s. that has paid off well over the last decade, as you know, and i think we will continue to see a bit of a bias. carol: there is not any movement away from that because of the valuations? >> listen, our clients have always invested globally. we have healthy allocations outside the u.s. and emerging markets, but when your liabilities are in dollars, you tend to have the -- have a little bit of an overweight to that. carol: coming up next, a timely topic, especially with tech

earnings coming out as of late. the department of justice. we got into how they feel about the size of the tech. jason: also, what the doj considers the most pressing cybersecurity risk. a little scary. carol: this is "bloomberg businessweek" at milken. ♪

jason: welcome back to a special milken edition of "bloomberg businessweek." i am jason kelly. carol: and i am carol massar. it's a great event, people from all walks of life. we are also doing it on our bloomberg radio program, so check that out on sirius xm channel 119 and a.m. 1130 in new york. 106.1 in boston. 99.1 f.m. in washington, d.c. jason: a.m. 960 in the bay area. london on dab digital and through the bloomberg business app. carol: here at the milken institute's global conference, i got the chance to sit down with the department of justice's assistant attorney general of the antitrust division. jason: here is the reason we really care about this guy. he is helping decide what mergers are going to go through or not. we are talking about sprint, t-mobile, top of mind. carol: there are so many issues to be determined. we started about talking about big calls, breakups, and big technology. where do you stand on a breakup in big technology? >> we have a number of standards of the antitrust laws, and we will look at every industry and apply the laws based on the evidence. i don't know if breaking up any particular industry without an actual investigation that shows they are doing competitive harm is the right approach for antitrust enforcement.

that's an area that antitrust enforcers should be looking at and we certainly are. carol: there is big technology, and i feel like there is amazon. there is not any panel or conversation of i do that amazon does not somehow come up in that conversation because they are such a bigger player, not only in retail, but so many industries. do you look at amazon in a different category? >> amazon has been a disruptor in a lot of different sectors. carol: is that a good thing, from your perspective? >> i think when you are an initial disruptor and create more efficient products and services and lower the prices to consumers, that is always a positive thing. the problem becomes when you have market power and you take certain actions that might actually harm competition, which ultimately will harm consumers. that's the type of conduct we look at. as i have said before, big itself is not bad, it is big behaving badly that becomes a problem for antitrust laws. that's certainly an area we would be interested in. jason: also here at milken, you and i got to catch up with john demers. the assistant attorney general in the doj. carol: it's so topical. we are talking about state entities tapping into american corporations. really trying to get at their ip. jason: it's about computers, but also about good old-fashioned

spy craft. here's what he had to say. >> i am here to talk specifically about china's economic espionage. talk to the business leaders an investment leaders about the threats to their business and investments posed by the theft of intellectual property sponsored by the chinese government. jason: what does that threat look like to the average person, the average businessperson? what should they be worried about? >> the combination is a cyber threat, very often an insider threat, and sometimes a combination of both. the chinese are using their intelligence services to go after and co-opt users, the way they might use a spy graft. what it looks like from the inside is someone who was working in your company, .working in your company, downloading data on a thumb drive, taking pictures of the screen with data, somehow taking that technology and sending it

over to china, all as part of this raw replicate and replace approach of economic development. throughout the intellectual property of an american company, to replicate that product in china, and then you replace the american company on the global market if all goes well eventually. today american worker, you lose your job. jason: as you talked to executives and on down, are they worried enough about this? >> i do think increasingly so they are worried about it, recognizing that, and realizing they have to confront this and realize it is a combination of cyber defenses and being aware of who you have working at the company and what they might be doing behind the computer. are they accessing data they don't really need to have? are they downloading data they don't need to download? are they in the office at strange hours when no one is around? all of that. jason: how much do you run into resistance from the perspective of business saying, china is an important customer, important market, i have a partnership with the company there, i don't want to jeopardize these things by going overboard? >> you cannot go overboard. we are not saying don't do business in china. you have to do business in china. but the key is doing business

smartly in china. recognizing the risks, and then mitigating them. what data do you put in china? what data is acceptable to -- accessible from china? that is part of how you can mitigate the risk. it is not, yes, do business in china but just do it smart. carol: i think about the trade talks going on. this is a big issue. what recourse is the united states, what kind of policies can the united states put in place that really pushes the chinese to not steal intellectual property from u.s. companies? this has been a sticking point for a long time. >> it has been a sticking point for a long time. it's all about behavior, not about what you agree to on paper. we have had agreements in the past. we have not really seen behavior change. the key will be enforcement. the way we try to do it under our current laws is to use sanctions to put chinese companies on denied party lists so they cannot import parts they need, to successfully block and

replace patterns, so that is what we are doing with current tools, bringing cases obviously against defendants, especially insiders. those are folks we can arrest and get them here. we have arrested for the first time in history a chinese intelligence officer in belgium and had him extradited here. there are a variety of things we are trying to do in terms of enforcement. it is all about behavior, more than agreement. carol: i do think about the u.s.-china relationship. from the business sector, it has been a tricky one. everybody wants to be in the chinese market because of the size. >> it is a big market. carol: exactly. what perspectives do you get from u.s. companies about being very careful about u.s. policy that you don't push too hard? it's a tricky balance. >> certainly. we try not to do anything that would jeopardize our business. we are following violations of u.s. law. for instance, companies come to

us, we are careful not to reveal their identities unless we have to go to trial, unless they want to be revealed. that is a way we can work with them if they are stepping forward, but we are not proclaiming from the mountain tops that this country was targeted. carol: coming up next, u.s. transportation secretary elaine chao talking to us about boeing's troubles. this is a story in the news that has yet to be resolved. jason: absolutely. also caught up with the ceo of bp, bob dudley. it was earnings day. we talked about oil prices and also, warren buffett really gets into the energy business. carol: looking forward to that. this is "bloomberg businessweek" at milken. ♪

>> welcome back to a special edition of "bloomberg businessweek." i'm jason kelly. >> and i'm carol massar. this week, we have been talking to the top names at the milken institute's global conference. right here in los angeles. >> still ahead, b.p. c.e.o. bob dudley. carol: we've also got whole foods former coc.e.o., walter robs. jason: and youtube's the edge.

as well as joel weber. tell us about your panel this week. it was interesting. >> so the theme was artificial intelligence. it was a conference between a venture capitalist and the cofounder of a quantitative hedge fund. super interesting people, people who have been near a.i. for decades now. so they have a lot of fantastic insights. carol: what do you think in terms of investment potential? everybody talks about a.i. here in the united states, here in china, around the world. the magazine covers it a lot. >> totally. this was a thing that permeated throughout the conversation. i think the crux of it is they feel like we're still in the early stages of what we're going to see unfold. that's pretty dramatic, when you think of how many places a.i. is infused. you interact with your phone. a.i. there. your financial portfolio probably has a little bit of a.i. and you're only going to see it more. what they're looking at are all the various fields that could potentially be up-ended by a.i.,

health care, education. that is sort of a profound idea, because there's a lot of promise in it. from a business standpoint, tons of opportunity. but there's also peril because we don't know how catastrophic these implications may be. >> i thought it came up in almost every conversation here. >> you can't not talk about it, because it is such a dramatic force. and now that the u.s. and china are both really becoming world superpowers on this stage, there's a lot of unknowns. carol: it's a result of so much data that's out there. right? think about how we have talked about that though often. >> data and computational power and storage. you put those three things together and one of the great quotes is there's nothing better than more data. carol: thank you so much. joel weber, thank you so much. editor of bloomberg "bloomberg businessweek" magazine. we talked about automated cars and technology. that's something that also came up with transportation secretary elaine choi. we started off by talking about infrastructure. >> the president feels very strongly about the need to address our infrastructure. and the biggest problem is how

to pay for it. and the president has already said that everything is on the table. and infrastructure is one area where there should be bipartisan support. any long-term policy needs to be done on a bipartisan basis. the president has said always that infrastructure is a real priority and we need to talk about it. we submitted a bill last year. february 12. didn't get enough votes. carol: right, there's so much private money out there. equity money that is ready to do private public partnership. they've got to be coming to washington saying, let's do something. >> well, there are private pension funds as well as endowment funds that would love the opportunity to invest in public infrastructure, because they're looking for long-term investments. with collateral that won't walk away. that's certainly a government project. so i hope that there will be

greater interest and allowance by the private sector to come in. because currently there are a number of states that disallow the private sector from investing in public infrastructure. and so we have to remove those hurdles and allow the private sector to come in, because they are a tremendous source of capital. carol: one last question i got to ask you read because certainly the purview of the boeing 737 fell under you. the f.a.a., we're still waiting for a head to be approved. the administration criticized for taking so long in grounding it, when other countries -- >> i don't think that's fair at all, because the f.a.a., who ultimately made the decision to ground the plane, the 737 maxes, they are a very fact-based organization. and they needed to have facts before they can ground the planes, because if you don't have a fact-based reason for grounding the plane, how would you explain ungrounding the

plane? so we now have a number of audits and investigations going on to see what happened to the certification of these two planes, which occurred in 2012 and 2013. and then we also -- i have also set up a special blue ribbon committee to look at the certification process going forward. and the f.a.a. is waiting for the software fix from the company before it can obviously do anything. and i want to assure the flying public that safety is number one at the department of transportation. and that the f.a.a. will not sign off on anything that they're not totally 100% satisfied with. jason: carol, i also got a chance to sit down with bob dudley, the c.e.o. of b.p. it was earnings day. we went through the numbers. oil trading, gas trading. they were a big contributor. but also, talk a little bit about warren buffet. carol: this is a story that was among the most read.

warren buffet making a $10 billion investment in occidental. right? all these companies going after anadarko. there's a lot of m&a talk in the energy space. jason: and he's right in the middle of it. here's what he had to say about it erie it -- it. >> this was our first quarter. oil prices, a little bit down. i think resilience, bang-on expectations. operations worked very smoothly around the world. i'm very pleased with the earnings. no real big surprises. jason: steady as she goes. x yes. jason: -- >> yes. jason: one of the things we were always interested in is our trading business. we got a little bit of detail about natural gas. tell us what was moving there. >> well, we did have a good quarter in the trading, both in global oil trading and natural gas. l&g prices were moving a little bit. of course, oil prices are very volatile. there is a lot of volatility in the oil markets right now. everyone is waiting to see about the either extension or no

extension of iran waivers. i think the market isn't really sure. even though it said they won't be asked ended, if they are extended, i think you'll see the price of oil dip a bit. if they're not, you can see it drift up. jason: what's your biggest worry about oil prices, as we go through the rest of '19? >> we plan the company on $55 a barrel, very narrow fairway for b.p. if i worry about it longer term, not short-term, longer term, we end up either with a spike or a drop. that's not good for the world. not good for planning. right now i think we will be in this fairway of 60 to 75 for 2019. jason: i do wonder about the role that private equity plays here, because it feels like, as an industry, they've sort of been in and out of the oil business, the energy business. how do you see them both competitively and as a partner at this point? >> well, we see them not only here in the u.s., we see private equities move into the north sea. the northern-southern north sea.

in some cases, they're buying established operators. in other cases, they buy a percentage in our partners. we've got very good private equity partners in the north sea. here in the u.s., i think it sort of goes up and down a little bit with their sources of money. when it's tight, less. and when money is easier, you see more of it. it's easier now. jason: so, mr. buffet plays into the broader conversation today with his investment there with anadarko. does that change your strategy? does it change the landscape? >> it doesn't change our strategy. i think i was surprised, because, you know, a number of years ago, mr. buffet wasn't particularly interested in energy. it shows that he is. i think it's going to show the energy engine of the u.s. is really growing, support for that. he stepped in to help occidental. the anadarko assets are really good. so it really doesn't surprise me. next, i guess to his

putting a big mark on microsoft. this is "bloomberg businessweek" -- a guest that is putting a big mark on microsoft. this is "bloomberg businessweek" at milken. ♪

>> welcome back to a special milken edition of "bloomberg businessweek." i'm jason kelly. carol: and i'm carol massar. now, this is a fun event. i feel like, you get out of the office. we love being in new york, but it's fun to get to the west coast. this is an area where you talk to titans of business, media, technology and you found out what's on their minds, what's interesting to them. and in addition to moderating our panels and schmoozing, we've been hosting our radio show. join us for that every day on

the radio, 2 to 5 p.m., wall street time. carol: and catch up on our daily show by listening to our boston at itunes and at bloomberg.com. jason: and find us online at businessweek.com and on our mobile app. on the cover of "bloomberg -- carol: on the cover of "bloomberg businessweek" this week, microsoft's next chapter under the leadership of satya nadella, he's a different type of c.e.o. jason: making some bold choices, maybe none bolder than breaking his company's dependence on windows. heard of it? and preparing for a threat from amazon. carol: we talked to the coauthor and seattle bureau chief. >> the company is no longer the windows company. it's focused on the cloud. you think about how few technology companies have been able to completely shift successfully from their flagship product and reinvent themselves. we spoke to reed hastings of netflix, a former microsoft board member, he said he can't think of any company that's been able to do that. and the market cap success and the sales successes are a real testament to satya nadella's successful reinvention of the company. carol: let's talk about that, because his style is very different from bill gates and steve ballmer. tell us about satya nadella.

how he works with his employees and his staff. >> bill gates was known for a louder style. certainly steve ballmer was known for gesturing and yelling. satya nadella is much quieter. but i would say he's no less firm in his opinions. he has very high expectations for people. but he also listens. and he wants his employees to be ambitious. he wants them to focus on being open-minded. so even though, you know, people said to us, they've never heard him say no, never heard him yell, that's very different. but he is equally strong-minded and insistent that the company really serve its customers and do a high-quality job. >> and dina, we talked so much about all the rivalries down in silicon valley. talk about this rivalry up in your neck of the woods around the cloud. microsoft vs. amazon. who has got the upper hand? >> absolutely amazon. that's the problem. when satya nadella took over as

c.e.o. of microsoft and wanted to refocus the company around cloud, there was one very significant challenge, which is that one of the most important parts of cloud and infrastructure services, amazon had about a four-year lead. and they're still quite a ways ahead. microsoft is getting important customers. we talked about kroger, chevron, walmart. starbucks is another microsoft cloud customer. but amazon has a huge lead. one of the nings that nadella and his team really try to make customers aware of, although subtly, is that amazon is increasingly competing with some of those customers. and microsoft, you know, without outright saying it will point to the idea that they want to help the customer succeed. they want the customer to be the one running their own platform and their own services and not to replace them or do it for

them. some of the customers we spoke to felt that that was a powerful message, particularly as they start to worry more and more about jeff bezos getting into their area. carol: now, here at the milken conference, i felt like one of the big topics was food. jason: it was. and not in the traditional sense. the foodie l.a. sense necessarily. we're talking about science and we're talking about afforability, accessibility and what's around the corner. carol: and i know someone who had something to say about that. whole foods former c.e.o. we talked about that and the future of food and supermarket industries. can we bring organics to the mass market in a cost-efficient way that is accessible to everybody? >> that's the great question, whether that can actually happen. the pricing, the available has increased tremendously over the last number of years. i think it's going to take more years to do that. but i think more sustainable food choices in general, not just organic, have accelerated big-time into the marketplace. i think we'll get there. carol: i want to ask you about your new company. you're investing in a lot of organic companies, also in a meal kit company.

we know it's blue apron. it's not an easy business. what do you think the future is of meal kit companies? >> i think it's part of -- carol: you hesitated. >> yeah. carol: not an easy market. >> well, i'm not actually an investor in blue apron, but i'm an investor in a number of other small companies. i think for food, meal kit companies, they are one in a choice. we're seeing some limits on that in terms of the number of times people repeat, et cetera, the concern about packaging, but where we combine the meal kit -- i think there the combination is more powerful. >> i've got to ask you another question. we look at retail overall, but the supermarket industry, where is it going? there are so many that seem to be struggling. it's a low-margin business. where do you ultimately see the supermarket going? >> massive change. i think the edge of it is with china. it's a complete digital interaction and integration in a

fantastic way. i think we're going to see the future stores smaller, probably robotized. the pressure product is exploding. but you're going to see this confluence of choices that the customer wants it in all sorts of different ways. i think the stores are there. 70% of the business, five years from now, is still done in physical stores. but the customer today, particularly the millennial generation, wants to connect digitally, be met on a pickup. it's going to look very different than it does today. jason: -- carol: coming up next, liquids.- clear you know a lot about that. jason: it helps me qhiz through the airports. but what we learned, their ambitions, much grander. and we go back to the world of food through the world of music. u2's the edge joins me. carol: only at milken. and how to put together a multi-million dollar art collection. jason: this is "bloomberg

businessweek" at milken.

carol: welcome back to a special edition of "bloomberg businessweek" at milken. i'm carol massar. and i'm jasonn: kelly. while we're here, we've also been doing our daily radio show. listen to that every day on cirrus xm. 99.1fm in washington d.c. carol: and in london, on dab digital and on the bloomberg business app. one of the first c.e.o.'s we caught up with your at milken was karen beckman of clear. clear is an interesting company. jason: fascinating. anybody who is going through the major airports in the united states right now has probably seen their kiosk. but their ambitions are much grander. they want to take you faster, not just through airport check-ins, but to stadiums, restaurants, even to your doctor's office. carol: get rid of your wallet. listen up. >> every card that is in your wallet should be replaced with your fingerprints, your iris, your face, your voice.

i look at my wallet, say, why am i carrying around my building access card? which i have to hold my coffee in one hand, take it out and swipe. why am i giving them my health care card? they have to xerox and call. none of these things make sense in the day we live in today. biometrics makes it safer and easier. the security is important. jason: let's talk about the security piece. anybody watching or listening to this, that is going to be their big -- carol: privacy. jason: hang-up presumably. what do you say to customers around the privacy topic? >> number one, i say we bought this company to increase homeland security. we're a qualified anti-terrorism technology. i'm a neurotic mother of three. that was the foundation for which we bought this business. also, integrity and trust our job one. job one.b number you've got

to secure the data and protect people's privacy. and because we started by working with regulators, the department of homeland security and collaborating, security is our d.n.a. we have team members, over 1500 around the country, bringing our technology to life. i think that's important, because you build that trust and that dialogue. security is what we do every day. job one. carol: what about the sharing of data? you guys do not share customer data, correct? >> that is correct. we do not sell or share data. that has been in our private policy, which is very public from the beginning. what we say is we sell experiences. we do not sell data. by securing your data, we can deliver you experiences, which you pay for, or, you know, the partners that are delivering you the experiences pay for it. that, again, core to our company. i really believe that clear is on the right side of history and that we've gone at this in a customer-centric way. well youl right, certainly know this already. but a clear highlight for me here at milken, sitting down with the edge from u2. didn't talk a lot about music. we talked a lot about food. he is pursuing a philanthropic

effort to fund food as medicine. it's a fascinating conversation. here's the edge. >> i'm involved in a foundation that's called the genesis foundation. we're interested in food and how food is connected to health. and i guess the milken conference finds that interesting for simplification, for health care, you know. as we get into this issue of trying to keep the population healthy, food becomes a very important part of that, because our foundation has a lot of scientific evidence showing how food is a really important tool for preserving health and resisting disease. which of course has huge implications. if you can keep the population healthy, you're gonna save a fortune in health care. it's that combination, i think, why it's of interest to milken.

>> this is a real economic story, at the end of the day. and plays into -- it feels like things that are so top of mind right now, around economics, quality, social inequality. why do you think food has sort of come to the fore now? >> i think it was a common denominator, as you say, amongst all sorts of different things. economics, health care, whatever. so it's very hot topic. our foundation has a lot of the hard science behind why certain foods prevent disease. typically cancer, but other diseases. so why we're here and william lee is the head of the foundation. just released a very interesting book called "eat to beat disease." we're here to really talk with other experts in the food space about the importance of understanding what foods can maintain health, how to eat in a way that offsets disease, and, you know, that's something that affects you on an individual

basis but also societally and nationally. carol: the pursuit has a perfect story for the audience here at milken this week. how to spend a million dollars. that's a small amount of money, if you think about what pieces cost today. jason: well, it's a really fun story in itself. here's editor chris. >> what we wanted to do this week is to give a few different advisors a special project. which is to see if they can come up a million dollar art collection using art that's out and available, out in the world right now, and offer our readers different ways to think about building a collection from scratch. if you had that amount of money, how would you spend it and how would you build a collection that was not only interesting but potentially valuable? >> and you break it apart between different types of art, right? >> right. so each of these specialists that we talked to have their own focus. so, you know, we talked to one woman, lisa shift, who really, she advises people to purchase artists that were working after

1980. we have someone who is an expert in old masters. each of these people have a different way of looking at how you should build up a collection. people come to different people because they have these different specialties. jason: and chris, i feel like this speaks to a theme that we talk to you about a lot, which is different generations have different approaches to collecting. >> yes. jason and different generations : have different approaches to even how they discover art. that must have played into this as well. >> yeah. you can focus on artists who are alive right now, which is, you know -- sometimes those are the people who are getting the most heat. but these advisors tell you, you know, there's a lot of different ways you can come across this art. you can come across it by auction. in some cases, if you sit around and wait through an auction, you're actually going to find a bargain in old masters work because not everybody necessarily wants one of those paintings. or you can go through the

gallery system, which can sell you new works, that the artist has just made. there's just a lot of different ways to come into this field and all these advisors specialize in doing that. carol: "bloomberg businessweek" is available on newsstands now. jason: and the magazine as well as all our interviews from here at milken, they're available online at businessweek.com. and on our mobile app. carol, what was your highlight? carol: do i have to pick one? i have to say, it's just an amazing event, my first time coming to milken. i just loved meeting with people from all of the different industries that are here. obviously the financial community but media, art, food, technology. i just loved having those back and forth conversations. jason: well, you know what mine is? i gotta talk about the edge. but what was so interesting about it was literally with the course of five minutes, i was talking to the c.e.o., bob dudley, and then here comes the edge to talk about food as medicine. and that to me sort of captures milken in a nutshell. carol: they're b.f.f.'s right now. i know it. of course you can find more stories on businessweek.com.

check that out over the weekend. jason: and check out our daily "bloomberg businessweek" podcast. carol: more bloomberg television starts now. ♪ the latest innovation from xfinity

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