haslinda: 640 million people, a combined economy the size of india. asean is an emerging market powerhouse. and within asean lies a growth giant. it's called indonesia. >> we are the two largest economies. it will make a lot of difference. haslinda: 17,000 islands, the largest muslim

population on earth, targeting connectivity and inclusion, indonesia is a microcosm of what asean could be without economic borders. >> to make it really strong. to make the centrality of reality. haslinda: indonesia is home to an e-commerce revolution. its president has plans to create 100 million new jobs. forging a path to asean, the next generation. ♪ haslinda: hello. welcome to jakarta the capital , of indonesia. a country of 270 million people at the very forefront of asean. its economy accounts for one-third of the bloc's gdp, and it is on track to become the world's fourth-largest economy by 2050. >> i think more or less, on and off throughout the course of the history of asean, indonesia has played a leadership role.

it needs to play a neutral role, so that its neighbors do not feel threatened. but i think in the forthcoming next five, 10 years, we do need to have a stronger leadership role from indonesia to make asean really strong, and make the asean centrality of reality. the president has an ambitious target on expanding financial inclusion. we have a program on education. but also increasing physical banking through the digital economy. it is now moving very fast and indonesia.

technology is going to be one of the solutions. education and inclusion is going to be very critical. >> [inaudible] indonesia is one of the most candid in advancing and using technology. integrating the economy through connectivity. that is why we are developing our payment system to increase the financial inclusion. this is a thing that others do also. haslinda: to understand indonesia, you have to understand its remoteness. a vast archipelago spanning the distance from new york to alaska, the country plans to spend $330 billion over the next five years building roads, bridges, and power plants to link some of its 17,000 islands.

the president has already made significant progress. highways popped up across the country. the mass transit system is now operational. it's a symbol of that endeavor. the capital also has a new airport and low-budget airlines that are linking the major cities. asean's only trillion dollar economy has been drawing at 5% here. ms. pangestu: it is not just about the physical connectivity, obviously. there's a whole range of issues about payments, about taxation,

there about data flows, about payments, about taxation, about privacy, about security, and about talent. if we could address that fourth freedom, professional workers, if we could focus on digital, that might actually help a lot. to have a wider professional movement. it would help asean. we can give china competition, actually. ms. indrawait: there are so many reforms required for the asean countries to be able to design and develop deepening financial sectors in systems. also creating an instrument which is based on that local currency. with that, you will not be affected mostly by the external or regional factors. you are more or less in charge for your own economy's development. haslinda: financial inclusion is a key focus for the region. but financial literacy is quite still quite low across the region. how challenging is that? and how do you bring everybody on board? indrawait: well, indonesia

is one of the cases in which the financial inclusion, we are still behind. just like india. we are the two largest economies. if we make progress, it will make a lot of difference globally. >> asean's role in the global economy is a mathematical inevitability. we are a $3 trillion per year economy, growing at more than 5% per year. so 14 years from now, we will be be a $6 trillion to $7 trillion economy out of a $100 trillion per your world economy. we are a significant chunk of the global economy now and will only increase our footprint 14, 18 years from now. haslinda: and with size comes scale and influence. asean has often been criticized for being unable to empower change because of what has been called its soft consensus approach.

ms. pangestu: in the increased uncertainty that we are facing in the world, we need to be stronger as asean in the wider east asian region. i really think that's the answer to the greater uncertainty that we are facing. it should be able to play a role, a middle power. you have china, u.s., the big g two countries. when they are fighting or when they are good friends, we will always have issues. we need to be balancing it. with japan, with korea. and asean as a whole is a middle power. haslinda: where do you think asean will be in 10 years? what is the vision for asean for you? well, that's what -- ms. indrawait: well, there is a momentum if you look at the global economy.

this is the only region who is performing well in the economy, both with policies as well as pragmatics. as well as the competition, which is healthy. you are in a region in which if you only grow by 5%, you are considered not performing. mr. lembong: the famous saying, which i believe is african origin, "if you want to go fast, go along. if you want to go far, go together." there is a lot to be said for a large amount of consensus. the beauty of asean is that it is flexible. there's a lot of policy space for individual countries or subregions to do what they think is best. without having to conform to a straitjacket of an asean-wide policy. haslinda: indonesia's president has promised to create 100 million jobs, to reboot the work force with new skills with a fourth industrial revolution. this is asean, the next generation. ♪

♪ haslinda: when you travel around asean, you see lots of young people. the average age of the population is 29 years old. compare that to the leaders at 70, and you get the idea of the leadership gap. tom, when you take a look at asean, what excites you the most when you look into the next 10 years? lembong: i would have to say, it is the next generation of young leaders. in politics, in business like e-commerce, the digital economy. there is a next generation of young political leaders. young business leaders. young leaders in the arts, media entertainment, fashion, culinary, civil society, waiting

in the wings. that is what you are going to see across southeast asia, across asean eight to 12 years from now. and that goes by in the snap of a finger. haslinda: what will the new leaders bring? how will they shape the face of asean going forward? mr. lembong: there will be more of a southeast asian identity 8 to 12 years from now versus an indonesian identity, a thai identity, a filipino identity. we will see the emergence of a southeast asian or asean identity. haslinda: young people, even though they don't think of asean the way we do, in a way, they

are already having an identification of being part of a region. i think that the youth is the future of the region. each of us has our own national identity. we also identify ourselves as being part of this southeast asia region. because of travel, because of connectivity with budget airlines and visas, digital information. we are connected. digital connectivity that has boosted the information that young people have about each other. haslinda: president jock hoi has plans for what he says will be 100 million new jobs over the next five years. while asean's biggest economy has been growing fast, many young people are finding it hard to get work. the focus is now shifting from traditional industries to education for the fourth industrial revolution. ms. indrawait: with digital technology, everybody can become

an entrepreneur. even in indonesia, entrepreneurs can be as young as primary school. they put it online and they become closer to the market, the demand is there. i think technology is going to provide more opportunity for the use of indonesia as well as in indonesia as well as asean and the world. they can have an excess of market in a cheap way. the problem may be is you are how you are going to understand the ecosystem of this digital economy, so that everybody gets their fair share. this is one of the most challenging policy discussions at this moment. anddefending the technology the digital economy creates jobs, creates access, creates new opportunities. warjiyo: there are a number of programs are ready advancing the financial inclusion. we are supporting the transfer of social programs through electronic vacation. last year, we already gained more than 50 million families.

we are aiming for 24 million. all of them through electrification. also modes of transportation. that is why indonesia's financial inclusion jumped from 40%, now 60%. and then we are aiming for 70%. ♪ pangestu: i expect there is a lot of nervousness. markets are always sensitive. it's a question of, how you deal with labor? unskilled labor will continue to be present. and probably that is better being dealt with -- it is already being dealt with bilaterally. we can focus on the skilled labor. as well as the possibility for training and education. you know. because i think that if we are going to be going to the next stage of each of our country's

development, as well as the future of economic integration, i think we have to -- it is timely that we address that particular component of the economic integration. haslinda: financial inclusion and connectivity has been the big story in indonesia. and here is why. according to the oecd, sme's account for nearly 97% of domestic employment and 56% of total investment. grow them, connect them, nurture them, and the economy booms. almost 70% of indonesian adults have mobile phones. indrawait: sme's are the one who enjoy this economy. in terms of their ability to access markets in the most efficient way. for example, they are now

they are expanding to all the states in indonesia. meaning that those merchandise , as well as sme's, they cannot access our closest to the market because of logistical information. they are now actually becoming the player who enjoyed the benefits. warjiyo: in the past, indonesia does a lot of things to support the sme. the startup. there are a lot of things in the sme development. there is one story in the past, one sme is selling a product in the streets. but through the, you know,

e-commerce, they are now already exporting. ms. pangestu: the future is the technological revolution. what we call is the fifth freedom. the fourth freedom is already in the communities. free trade in goods, investment in people. freedom is data flow. if asean is to become a meaningful economic integration region, then we have to address data flows. the whole rationale of asean has been, this is a training ground for us to connect with each other, with neighbors. as a practice before we open up more globally. i still think that rationale is very important. haslinda: and also, very important to asean are the indonesian unicorns. >> i think we are only scraping the surface of how big it could actually be.

our mission, the market is the entire middle-class been of southeast asia. haslinda: next up, a billion-dollar company connecting asean, the next generation. ♪

♪ haslinda: indonesia is home to southeast asian unicorns. three companies making a fortune connecting the country into a central e-commerce hub. the internet and mobile phones are giving tens of millions of sme's and hundreds of millions of people access to markets in finance. indonesia has more than 75 million motorcycles. so the idea to ride share them

through jakarta's notorious traffic was good, good enough for the company to be valued at $10 billion. go jek's influence in asean is huge, because it's not just ridesharing. it's also logistics, food, authentec, and it is expanding fast. mr. makarim: we are at 35% of the two-wheeler market in vietnam already after three months. that is incredible. we were shocked to see the update so quickly. a lot of it will also be to extending new verticals. further increasing the penetration of our services in indonesia. it is the largest market where we are the market leader. as you can see from our shareholders, where you have google, tencent, jd, gic, and a variety of other heavy hitter financial institutions, you really see the world's best at all the key verticals that we are trying to execute on in order to create this, first in

the world, super app that encompasses all of your daily transactional needs. ms. indrawait: technology is also going to help disintegration even more. if you see the unicorn and digital economy in asean, they are becoming one of the factors that is creating this kind of integration faster. you talk about these companies, they are already playing at the regional level. they become the catalytic for the economy to integrate even further. makarim: the saturation point of the consumer versus say

china is still very small. there is still so much more to grow across transport, food delivery, payments, logistic, digital goods. i think that we are only scraping the surface of how big it could actually be. our mission is, our addressable market is the entire middle-class bend of southeast asia. lembong: happily for us, hoi is extremely attuned to the millennials, the next generation in televised presidential debates. he raised things like e-sports and mobile legends tournament. also e-commerce and digital economy and unicorns. i am optimistic that the aspirations of the millennials, gen z, will come much more to fruition in the hands of the next generation leadership across asean. haslinda: china is asean's largest trading partner and has been for the past 10 years. how it launches across beijing

and washington is just one of many foreign-policy challenges. pangestu: the south china trade issue is pulling us apart. tpp splitting us down the middle. somehow, asean has been able to be resilient and maintain its progress, even though, in some years, you could say it was slow. but i think there's always an effort to say, what's the next challenge that we have? mr. lembong: so we literally sit at a crossroads of global trade. 90% of the oil and gas from the middle east heading to the far east. passes through indonesia. the states of malacca. it has made us very open to international traffic, if you will. trade, tourism, investment. it has made us extremely tolerant of diversity, of cultures.

ms. indrawait: if you talk about 10 years from now, you have to see the dynamic of the asean bloc. that is japan, south korea -- what is the dynamic of all of these countries in east asia have the influence on the acceleration of the integration? or even it could also be slower, the integration. because you have the temptation toactually, each country, connect with all of those players rather than within asean. am, i guess, a half-full glass person. i am optimistic that asean will continue to be resilient and, hopefully the crisis in the global trading system and multilateralism should be a good warning sign or opportunity. let's look at it in the positive. it's an opportunity for asean to become stronger again, to become the balance.

here in this increasingly multipolar world. to have a strong regional presence, to be able to have a voice in what is happening in this very uncertain multilateral as well as regional uncertainties. haslinda: what do you expect to be the biggest change we would see in asean? mr. lembong: it is potentially unlike anything you have ever seen, because it is happening just when industry 4.0, cloud computing, artificial intelligence, all these next-generation technologies are taking off. and i think the people of southeast asia, of asean, have proven to be uniquely gadget uniquely, right, social-media-friendly. arguably more so than any other region in the world. haslinda: these fishermen spend up to three months at sea, returning with a catch worth about $70,000. traditional businesses like these have been the lifeblood of

indonesia, but generational changes coming. a new future. thanks for watching asean, the next generation. ♪ the latest innovation from xfinity

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♪ >> huawei, the chinese telecom company that pushed its way onto the global stage, becoming the world's largest provider of networking gear, the number two smartphone maker, and one one of the biggest proponents of 5g technology, but as the u.s. and china face-off in a trade war, huawei finds itself at the center of the storm. >> huawei is dangerous. you look at what they have done from a security, military standpoint, it is very dangerous.

>> highlighting the founder ren zhengfei's connections to the party, the u.s. has accused huawei of being a powerful tool in china's spying arsenal. >> if we were behind, trump would not need to attack us. he attacks us because we are more advanced than him. >> despite denials from ren and the chinese government, the u.s., japan, australia, and taiwan have banned huawei equipment, and trump has cut it off from the u.s. software and semiconductors it needs to make its products. tech giants have told their employees they will not supply huawei until further notice. >> the u.s. keeps abusing its national power to smear and crackdown on other country's enterprises, including chinese enterprises.

>> december 2018, ren's daughter and cfo was detained in vancouver at the request of the u.s. >> the grand jury has returned an indictment alleging 13 additional crimes committed by huawei, its cfo, its affiliate in iran, and one subsidiary. >> she remains in canada under house arrest until the court determines her fate. connected and contested, huawei simply says it wants to connect the world. the company's future has been thrown into doubt. huawei's vast campus in southern china is emblematic of the company's ambitions. ren zhengfei acknowledges that

ambition and the company's future is now in doubt, but remains defiant in the face of mounting u.s. pressure. president trump has suggested huawei could be a factor in any trade deal between the u.s. and china. how likely is that from your perspective? >> the u.s. has never bought products from us, so how could they negotiate with us? if the u.s. wanted to buy our products in the future, i may not sell to them. there is no need for a negotiation. if he calls me, i may not answer, but he does not have my number. i see his tweets, but it is laughable. >> president trump has described huawei as a dangerous company, saying "from a security standpoint and from a military standpoint, this is a dangerous company." how do you respond? >> 5g is not the atomic bomb. it is a tool to transmit information. the content has nothing to do

with the transmission tool. it is just like a microphone. you can't say it is a dangerous tool because it can transmit voices, but the person who speaks could be dangerous. how come the tool is considered dangerous? >> you have said in the past you think president trump is a great president. do you still think that? >> trump is a great president because he tells the whole world that huawei is a great company and to not sell components to us, which is a promotion for us. we can't even keep up with supplies as orders have increased. i think he is a great president as he promotes how great huawei is. >> the decision to blacklist huawei has been framed by some lawmakers as a death sentence for the company.

do you see this as a question of life and death for huawei? >> huawei is like a plane with so many holes after being attacked. we don't want to die. we want to fly home. that is where we are. the u.s. has put us on the banned list, so we might have some difficulties. we want to adjust the route as we are flying. we will definitely be able to survive and lead in areas like 5g technology. >> the list of companies that supply huawei with components and software that are now cutting off the supplies is growing. i guess the question is, for how long can huawei survive without those components and software? >> the u.s. has taken extreme measures to target huawei. the u.s. is so powerful, but why are they so scared of us? i think they overestimate huawei.

such a small company, how come it has been paid such attention around the world? i am excited that we have so much attention, but i think they exaggerate our role in the world. we have not done any promotion yet, but someone has done such a great job promoting us, i am so grateful. >> are you looking to change your supply chains to ensure you have the components you need? >> we will maintain our existing supply chain and continue to place orders with u.s. companies, but if they can no longer supply us, a portion of our in-house products will increase. we will find our own way to solve our problems. >> the critics of huawei would say you have got to where you are through intellectual property theft and government support. what is your response to that? >> the u.s. has not developed

that technology, so from where should i steal it? it is more likely they steal our technology now that we are leading the u.s. if we were lagging behind, trump would not need to make some the efforts to attack us. he attacks us because we are more advanced than him. >> you faced legal challenges from cisco, motorola, t-mobile, what does that say about the culture at the company and what steps have you taken to address some of the issues that came up? >> first of all, i think all of these cases have been heard in court. we should respect the court's judgments. we require all employees not to do anything wrong in this regard. we have a huge amount of

technology. if asking what contributions we have made for human beings, we have over 90,000 patents, many obtained for information technology. we have made huge contributions to the information foundation of the whole society. among those, 11,500 call patents were filed in the u.s., and the u.s. government has approved them, so we have patents in the u.s. if they could understand the contribution huawei has made for humanity, the dispute may be resolved. >> if at a moment of national crisis the government said, we need your help. we need your cyber skills. we need access to your network because it is for the good of the country, the good of the government come at the chinese people, how would you respond? >> we absolutely would never

install any backdoors. we would never do that. we serve human beings. we don't serve intelligence agencies. why should we install backdoors? >> what are the practical steps of denying a request in china? >> we have never done that. the german newspaper released an article saying they could not find any backdoors in huawei's systems. in the u.k., huawei was under the strictest scrutiny so we could earn the country's trust. under such scrutiny, it was as if we took off all her clothing to prove we have nothing to hide so that u.k. agreed to use our equipment.

>> coming up, huawei's founder tells me how he went from soldier to global tycoon. he opens up about his relationship with his daughter held under house arrest in canada and now facing extradition to the u.s. ♪

>> ren zhengfei grew up in relative poverty, his parents and victims during the turmoil of the cultural revolution. he tells me about those early years, his struggles to start the business, and opens up about his family. mr. zhengfei: this is my father. he was a middle school principal. this is my whole family.

this is my mother. this is me. that is me when i was in the military talking to a french engineer. tom: how do you go from being an engineer in the people's liberation army to building and setting up huawei as a company in 1987? mr. zhengfei: my history can be divided into two parts. the first when i served in the military when china was a planned economy before the big military layoffs. i was in the military elite, but we all got laid off out of the blue, throwing us into the ocean of the market economy. i did not understand the market economy at all.

we choked on tons of water in the ocean. we didn't understand with the market economy was. we lost lots of money because we trusted people too much. we couldn't afford to hire a lawyer, so i read law books. i realized two important things about the market economy, the supplier and the customer. tom: what were your ambitions for the company in 1987? ren: i did not have any goals. at that time, we did not have enough food. i recall when my daughter was little. her mother often told me she needed to go to the market around 5:00 a.m. to bite stale fish and shrimp. they were sold at a cheap price. she cooked it for our daughter to provide proteins. she said without enough protein that children can grow healthy. we could only maintain the minimum standard of living, so we did not have any goals. the goal was only to survive. we didn't know whether we could survive.

my most famous slogan in the company is survive, survive, and survive. even today when we are like a damaged airplane, our slogan is to survive rather than any great ambition. tom: did you ever imagine you would be sitting here today in this position? ren: actually if people don't desire much, they can be more capable. i don't desire much. i don't want to take too much money. i only hold a small portion of the company's shares. in 2000, i did not even own an apartment. the apartment i rented was only half the size of this room. it faced west and did not have an air-conditioner. there was no turning back for us. if we went backwards, it would be poverty. if we went forward, it would still be poverty, but if we kept going there might be a slim

chance of hope. there would be no hope if we went backwards, so we had to keep walking forwards, walking and walking. all of a sudden we saw the sunshine and realized we were at the top of the himalayas. tom: how did you go from behind your competitors, like erickson, nokia, to being the leader in 5g? what steps were implemented and how did you manage to make that leap? ren: first of all, we spent time at work when others were spending time having coffee. in general, we work harder than others. secondly, we distributed what we are and to everyone rather than keep it in our own pockets, so we could attract good scientists and talented people to join us. tom: do you have succession plans in place? ren: we have had a succession plan for a long time. we won't give the company to one single person.

we will give it to a group with subgroups. it is like a giant secession plan, not a single-person succession plan. this is meng wanzhou. tom: beautiful. when was this? ren: it was taken last year, early last year. tom: do you feel like you have become closer to meng wanzhou? ren: yes. she felt the importance of family. tom: in a strange way it has brought you closer? ren: yes. my daughter was barely talking to me before. tom: your daughter faces extradition to the u.s. from canada and is facing charges in the u.s. of fraud and breaking sanctions, those of the allegations from the u.s. side. president trump has suggested he could intervene to help your

daughter. presumably you welcome that kind of intervention? ren: canada violated the law with this arrest. we will point out these violations during the court hearings. meng wanzhou has never committed any fraud, which we have already made clear. two sides can present evidence in court. we have evidence. meng's case is politically motivated. tom: do you think the legal action against the u.s. and canada are helping, or are there risks that it inflames tensions? ren: the problem is that it is the u.s. and canada who sued us

first, then we countersued. why are we the ones who followed suit considered to be the ones disrupting the social order? if you knew it would disrupt the social order, why would you sue us? why shouldn't we file a counterclaim after you sued us? they can't be that arbitrary. the u.s. is a fair, open, and transparent country. i have my rights. you have your right to sue me. i have my right to defend myself. tom: have you spoken with your daughter? how is she? ren: she is studying her phd while under house arrest. tom: coming up, huawei, blacklisted. ren zhengfei on the impact of being cut off from major suppliers like intel and google. ♪

♪ tom: the trump administration's decision to choke off supplies of components and services to huawei was a major escalation in the u.s. campaign against the company. ren zhengfei tells me how he thinks that will impact their ambitions to be the global number one smartphone maker, and also, may be more importantly, what it means for their leadership in the 5g space. i want to bring it back to some of the original topics we talked about around supplies. we talked about how some the major suppliers like intel, qualcomm, arm, and google are restricting their supply of components and software to huawei. explain to us how you weather that storm. tom: the u.s. manages its own --

ren: the u.s. manages its own companies. the u.s. is not the international police. they can't manage the whole world. the rest of the world decides whether they should work with us based on their business interests and decisions. if some companies don't want to work with us, it is like a whole in the airplane. we are working to fix the hole, but the airplane is still able to fly. of the chips we have been using, half are from u.s. companies and half we produce ourselves. if the u.s. imposes further restrictions on us, we will reduce our purchases from the u.s. and use our own chips. if american companies have permission from washington to sell to us, we will continue to buy from them. tom: how much damage do you expect to be felt in the consumer division, smartphones and laptops, which depend on

u.s. chips and software? ren: we might miss our expected growth target, but we are still growing. being able to grow in the toughest battle environment reflects how great we are. tom: do the actions the u.s. has taken mean you will have to ramp up that r&d spending to develop in-house products and components? ren: we set our sale price is relatively high. our current prices are higher than erickson or nokia, so we can make lots of money. as long as we can afford to live and as long as we can survive, we would like to invest more in r&d. even during the most difficult times we still need to invest in the future, otherwise we don't have a future. tom: you have bragging rights. you overtook apple as the number two smartphone maker, sales jumping 50%. you do have that goal of

becoming the number one smartphone maker in the world. does that goal now have to be shelved? ren: an apple's biggest this. we became a peach, a bit bigger than apple. we might become a plum, smaller than an apple, but still edible. a plum is just sour and bitter. we could become bigger or smaller. we are not a public company. we are not only pursuing growth or profit. it is good enough for us to just survive. tom: there have been calls by some in china for beijing to retaliate against apple. is that an action that china should be looking at taking? ren: that will not happen, first of all. second of all, if it happens, i will be the first to protest. apple is the world's leading

company. if there was no apple, there would be no mobile internet. if there were no apple, we would not see the beauty of this world. apple is my teacher. it is advancing in front of us. as a student, why should i oppose my teacher? i would never do that. tom: you talk about having a lead. does that lead get eroded? ren: definitely. if we slow down, it is because the wing has lots of holes. if we fly slowly, of course they can catch us up. but we will keep fixing the holes. we will fly fast against once all the holes are fixed. tom: a lot of this, maybe all of this, comes down to a question of trust, a miss trust that mistrust of huawei and

china. do you think there are additional steps, beyond the steps you have taken, additional steps you could take to improve that trust? whether that is restructuring the company, listing the company, is there anything you could do to build on that? ren: we don't need to go public. we are very clean. we don't worry about what other people can say. we won't go public. you can wait. i don't think it will take long, maybe 3000 years. tom: what have you put in place in terms of contingencies? can you give us details? ren: we might have contingency plans for the core of the airplane of the engine and fuel tank, but we may not have a plan for the wings. we need to review the situation over again and fix those problems. you can come back and interview us in two or three years to see if we still exist. if we are gone in two or three years, please remember to bring a flower and put it on our grave.

♪

♪ david: what expertise did you have to start your own company? thomas: i had no expertise. david: why did you get out? thomas: i said i can't even program my vcr. you have got the wrong guy. david: the u.s. has most of its gold in fort knox. thomas: large gold bars. that is the way it looked in "goldfinger." david: what made you interested in rembrandt? thomas: it spoke to me and i said, mommy, please take me back to the rembrandt. david: what does it that makes a leader? thomas: the longer i live, the more i realize that character is really destiny. >> would you fix your tie, please? david: people wouldn't recognize me