♪ carol: welcome to "bloomberg businessweek." jason: we are here at bloomberg headquarters in new york. carol: in this week's special "sooner than you think issue," has gene therapy outpaced? -- outpaced america's health care system? jason: and the costs associated, they are amazing. the startup that may hold the key to the next generation of artificial intelligence. carol: we begin with a new vision of technological progress.

editor joel weber is here with us. ashlee vance, a great story that is going to make you rethink how you perceive silicon valley. joel: we wanted to really open up the whole idea of the issue here. it is really too easy to be down on tech right now. the tech-lash is real. antitrust is in the wind. don't forget that technology and innovators can still do incredible things and sometimes you just have to look outside silicon valley. ashley has spent a lot of time doing that. jason: it is amazing, his purview, his worldview, and it also comes at a time of real existential questions around silicon valley and yet, i found it to ultimately be optimistic. joel: there is a sense of hope. that is the spirit of this whole issue, the sooner than you think issue. not to just look at the glass half-empty. let's look at it half-full. carol: solving really serious problems. thank you so much. jason: more on this issue.

jeff: last year, we were looking at the incredible moment that we were seeing coming back for ai. this year, in the midst of the backlash against the conventional big tech industry that is heating up this week especially, we wanted to look at what new models of innovation and technological progress really look like. jason: one of the ways into this is that you use one of our best assets, he has been all over the planet literally looking at these pockets of innovation, and the comparisons he makes to what he is seeing around the world versus what he has seen and you have seen so many years in silicon valley are pretty stark. jeff: absolutely. this is really in his wheelhouse, a story he has been tailoring for the better part of a decade now as was said in one of his stories a few years ago.

the finest minds of my generation are trying to figure out how to get people to click on ads. this has been the story of the last decade and a half in silicon valley. which is several lifetimes in valley years. his travels around the world have taken him to places that have reminded him of the value of generations past and reminded him that innovation can come in in all forms, whether it is in australia or china or chile or palestine or elsewhere. carol: let's talk about the silicon valley past and get into what he means by that and then we can get into what we talk about today. you were talking about when hobbyists were involved, builders. jeff: he harkens back to the silicon valley where people were really experimented in a pre-computerized era with what

electrification and the growth of the electronics industry can do for the country. people were trying to tinker and invent their way to a better future, as opposed to trying to optimize it for shareholder earnings. jason: what changed? in your estimation and based on the reporting, where did the pivot happen? as he says, he says the finest minds of our generation are now focused on something very different, even different from the 1990's. what happened? jeff: sure. as he points out in the peace, -- the piece, there is a wave of innovation that crests and changes after netscape and the dotcom crash. jason: 1995, it becomes apparent what the internet potential is going to be and we take some hard left turns.

jeff: that's right. a lot of people would look at the current slate of silicon valley tech giants and say facebook is the flagship problem, the biggest arbiter of the kinds of ad models that we look at. the piece blames google, the search giant more or less inventing the modern industry of accumulating as much data as possible about people to try to generate more and more advertising and ad dollars is where the industry started to lose its way. jason: and so is there hope for silicon valley at this point? one of the things pointed out an d i feel we have talked about it is this idea that so many of these companies, at least superficially or in their formation, were actually about doing good for the world. google, don't be evil. we go back to that. is there hope that maybe in the

near to midterm future silicon valley finds its soul again? not to put too fine a point on it. jeff: i would not expected to happen in a matter of a couple quarters, but there is certainly a model for innovation that people are trying to reach toward through the valley and particularly google, you can see in the protests by employees, walkouts, the pressure for better labor conditions, or different company policies, particularly around drones and military contracts, there is a push for reform. jason: you think back to the 1990's and the trouble microsoft got into with the government with antitrust. fast-forward to today. the government taking a look at these companies. if there is this moment of reckoning, that maybe at least puts us closer back to the right track, knows? -- who knows?

jeff: i think that is very possible. the microsoft antitrust suite is likely credited as giving rise to google, leaving room for another company to build a search engine. carol: up next, why economists say hold off on celebrity the -- celebrating the 10 year old economic expansion. jason: and why blackstone's president is betting progress may be made in the u.s.-china trade dispute. carol: at some point. this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪

carol: welcome back. jason: join carol and me for "bloomberg businessweek" every day on the radio. also, catch up on our daily show, listened and subscribe to our podcast on itunes, soundcloud, and bloomberg.com. carol: you can also find it online at businessweek.com and our mobile app.

in the economics section, june marks a 10 year anniversary in -- of one of the longest economic expansions of u.s. history. jason: long, but should we be celebrating? >> this month marks the 10th birthday which equals the longest expansion in records going back to 1854. tied, by the way, with 1991-2001. if it goes one more month into july, it will become the recordholder. you would think that streamers, parties, cakes. carol: we did not have a hat. we are not celebrating. jason: we don't have fun. peter: there are two reasons people are not celebrating. one is that we are worried this is nearing its end. that's some actually, we could be heading toward a recession. you see that in the bond market with the inversion of the yield curve we are talking about all the time, where the three-month treasury yields are higher, often a sign recession is on the way.

jason: it is a sign because people don't have long-term confidence, so they are buying shorter duration. peter: it is really more that the fear of growth is going to be low in the long-term, inflation and growth will be low over the long term. meanwhile, the rates that the fed imposes, the fed controls the short end of the yield curve, are high or choking off field curve. carol: the shorter end is higher, the longer is lower. typically, you want a higher yield for a longer duration. peter: so, that is one thing. then we have the trade war, which was with china and now it is soon to be breaking up with mexico. we also have worries about japan and europe. so, the growth is still healthy, but there is a worry it is going to end.

jason: help us understand larry summers in this context. this is a guy people listen to. where does he land? because he was part of a nice expansion himself. how does he look at it academically versus practically? peter: so, he is on the second point. the first point being the recession might end. the second point being it was never very strong in the first place. that is what he gets into with his theory of secular stagnation. that is an idea that was coined by alvin hansen in the 1930's and he single-handedly has revived it over the past five years. he has been hammering on it. larry summers. jason: former treasury secretary. revived it over the past five peter: he was the treasury secretary under clinton and head of the national economic council under obama. jason: former president of harvard. still teaches at harvard. he knows a thing or two about this.

peter: he does. his thought is that we have gotten into a situation where there is a chronic shortfall of demand by businesses and households and the only way to keep the economy growing at a decent pace is by fiscal and monetary stimulus, kind of extreme, more than you really feel comfortable with. fiscal stimulus being sort of deficit spending and monetary stimulus being very low interest rates. we are in a situation where there is a lot of fiscal stimulus because of the 2017 tax cut. and interest rates remain quite low, considering how low the unemployment rate is. even with that, growth is just kind of ok. carol: let's get a little bit more on peter's story. take a look at that expansion we are living with their -- with. taylor riggs is with us. taylor: we have a great chart as always. come in my terminal here.

we are looking at the average growth for the economic expansions. that is in yellow, that is all you need to know. growth in the 1990's was averaging about 3.8%. after the dot-com bubble, before the great recession, we were averaging about 2.8%. this is right here. this is the last decade. we are only averaging about 2.3% growth. when we talk about how long the expansion has been, this is why people have been talking about it. carol: great chart to show how it compares the last one. thank you so much. jason: how to the world's biggest investors view the economy? jonathan gray, blackstone's president and coo, i asked him about one of the biggest issues in the economy right now, the u.s. trade dispute with china. jonathan: we don't have a ton of businesses in the global supply chain. we have some that are being impacted by this. i would say that that is the

issue. i would say the broader issue is what it means for markets, what it means for confidence, and economic growth. if this persists, we are going to see less economic growth, more uncertainty. markets logically have traded off. that makes sense. i think as investors, you have to be mindful of that. i would say that sometimes you don't necessarily think through all the multiple impacts of these things as they play through a lot of industries. i think it makes you generally a little more cautious. the bond market has moved much more cautious with a 10-year now quite negative. u.s. growth is still ok, although we are waiting to see the impact. jason: how soon do you think we will see the impact? the next quarter? this year? jonathan: this year i think, incrementally. there are definitely companies trying to move supply chains. that has an impact. if you think about what drives economic growth, this is one of the challenges about brexit.

if people have confidence that tomorrow things will be better, they will make capital expenditures or hiring decisions based on that confidence. if they feel very uncertain about the future, they tend to pull back. i do think the tax cut last year was helpful in building confidence. i think now there is more wariness with regard to what is going on. i will say this, i still think as a relates to u.s. and china on trade, ultimately i think there should be a resolution because it is in both parties' interest. there is the recognition of a rebalancing that should be taking place. this is about the pace and extent of that rebalancing. i think the technology side of this is harder to resolve and we may end up in sort of a bipolar technology world. jason: to that point, rebalancing is one thing. on the tech side, we are looking at decoupling in a lot of ways these two economies.

your boss intimately involved in china, he is a confidant of the leaders of both countries, u.s. and china. how worried are you about that decoupling? how worried as the firm? jonathan: i think everyone recognizes in the near term the parties have moved apart and i think everybody is disappointed that that has occurred. i think there is a sense that it is in the collective interest of both parties to come back together. i think in terms of trade and reciprocal openness of markets, i think progress ultimately will be made. i think the technology thing is just tougher. jason: for more on that interview, check out our "bloomberg businessweek" extra podcast. carol: also, the magazine this week, we have an excerpt from our interview with the cisco ceo. he talks about u.s.-china trade,

supply chains, so be sure to check that out. up next, the one-shot gene therapy that could treat incurable diseases. jason: and imagine a $20 smartphone with a five-day battery life. those stories just ahead on "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ jason: welcome back to

"bloomberg businessweek." carol: you can also listen to us on the radio. on sirius xm and in new york, in boston, in washington dc. jason: in the bay area, london, and through the bloomberg business app. carol: advances in gene therapy appeared to successfully treat once incurable patients. jason: this progress does not come cheap. i talked to james patton. james: it is a very interesting time. we are entering a new frontier in medicine. the science is accelerating rapidly.

the field of therapies that replace missing or malfunctioning genes is really at a turning point after many years of struggles and setbacks. we are talking about treatments that are intended to be given to patients a single time and potentially deliver a lifetime of benefits. a possible cure, in some cases. now, there is uncertainty over the long-term whether these benefits will be sustained, whether patients will need to be treated again at some point, whether they will encounter any side effects. we don't have full answers to all of these questions, although the data over the past five years has been dramatic. , forealth care systems payers around the world, they are all wrestling with how they will pay for this treatment.

could be multimillion dollar drugs. even if they save money over the long-term, over the shorter term, they are going to have a significant budget impact when you consider the sheer number of gene therapies approaching the market and the cost. jason: i want to get into the cost in a minute, but help me understand how this works. you said this is a one time thing. does it replace drugs going down the line? james: that is the goal. my colleague talked to the mother of a patient, for example, with a rare genetic condition better known as bubble boy disease. this is a rare condition that basically leaves newborns extremely vulnerable to infection. they have to live in isolation. frequently kills kids before they turned two years old. in other cases, these gene therapies are replacing a lifetime of costly care.

there was a product just approved by the fda in the past couple weeks from swiss pharmaceutical company novartis to treat spinal muscular atrophy. that is the goal overtime. -- over time, but there are those long-term uncertainties that still need to be resolved. jason: right. let's talk about the costs. as you say, multimillions of dollars. why does it cost so much? james: if you consider the cost to treat some of these conditions, like hemophilia for instance, the standard treatments can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars a year,

upwards of $1 million per year. and there are very expensive to develop over a long period of time. the pharmaceutical companies are trying to recoup investments and charge what the market will bear, but they obviously are under a great deal of pressure to price these that responsible levels. the drug price controversy in the u.s. is well underway and of -- and this will only add to the debate. carol: also in the "sooner than you think" issue, using a product from china and lessons from india. jason: it is all about getting africans internet connections tailored to their needs on that continent. here is our reporter. shira: i've been talking to people in the tech industry for years and years about what is colloquially called the next billion users, although it is really like 3 billion or 4 billion users, people not yet connected to the internet, about one half the population of the globe. there have been all of these initiatives to try to crack that 50% or so of people who are not online.

i started talking to people in the last couple years about this company, which is this little start up, a spinoff of a chinese electronics company, that made this software for very inexpensive devices that are somewhere between a 1990's cell phone and the smartphones you and i have. jason: it is fascinating. one of the headlines kicked around on this is the $20 smartphone with the five-day battery. ok, i'm listening. in terms of that market opportunity. how does it work? take us inside the phone and tell us about the opportunity. shira: the phones are sold by companies like reliance go in india. orange, large french mobile phone company. they are starting to sell the devices in africa.

it looks in many cases like the cell phone you might have had in 1997. it has the basic body of a cell phone. it has no touchscreen. the reason is that is a very expensive part, typically one of the most expensive components on a smart phone and it drains a lot of battery. if you were talking about markets in africa or rural india, where people might have spotty access to electricity, a touchscreen is a little bit of a no go. jason: right. >> you start talking about some of these efforts to make these devices as simple as possible, but still have the sophistication of a smartphone. they connect to the google voice assistant. you can get apps like whatsapp and facebook that have been customized for the devices. you are talking about a device that in some parts of the world you can get for $7, $20, $25, that have some of the brains of a smartphone, but at significantly lower cost, which make it a good on-ramp for the internet. jason: part of the cost comes from all of the stuff that is in

the phone. almost $400 worth of stuff in the latest and greatest iphone. you got to get that down so it is affordable for people to sell. right down to the processor. a three dollar processor. shira: absolutely right. one of the analysts i talked to said these smartphone devices probably have maybe $15 worth of parts. as you mentioned, the highest iphone, we are talking about $400 in estimated parts. a lot of it is just kind of things that you maybe don't need if you are just trying to get people onto the internet. again, a less expensive, but still capable processor, the brains of a smartphone. $50 in a high-end smartphone, versus three dollars in this device. jason: up next, the company attracting the attention of just about anyone who is going to need superfast ai chips. carol: love that story.

later on, showtimes "billions" wrapping up its latest season. we will hear about diversity on wall street from its creator. jason: this is bloomberg businessweek.

at comcast, we didn't build the nation's largest gig-speed network just to make businesses run faster. we built it to help them go beyond. because beyond risk... welcome to the neighborhood, guys. there is reward. ♪ ♪ beyond work and life... who else could he be? there is the moment. beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. ♪ ♪ every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected, to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond. ♪

jason: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." carol: still ahead in this week's special issue, six flying robo taxis that could soon shuttle you around new city. -- new york city. jason: and in cities around the globe. and why one sea captain wants to tow an iceberg to south africa to solve a water crisis. carol: we begin with what is called the third wave of computer processing.

joel weber is here with us now. we all know about cpus, but now we are talking about ipu's. >> this is a story about machine learning and artificial learning and artificial intelligence. all of the big advantages we have seen have been rooted in software and this is the first time we have seen advantages in hardware. tiny chip, big potential. jason: what is fascinating is you need to make them a little dumber and cool them down. >> this is created by a british startup. one of the things they looked at is that when we do processing for ai, we are using maximum computing skills. look at your face and connect the data points. one of the things we have been able to do with this chip is make it be way lower energy consumption and it is rooted in guesswork. the chip becomes brain-like in

its ability to have human level intuition. carol: we are going to need this processing capability. we will need to be able to do this. >> for companies with big ai aspirations, microsoft, bmw's of the world, any company looking for ai future, this looks to be the big breakthrough. they're calling it a new level of architecture. carol: thank you so much. jason: big money, big breakthroughs. we talked more about this with our reporter. >> graph core is a bristol-based company. i mostly write about silicon valley companies so it was great to talk about another company doing something difficult. the idea is that ai has been seen as a software problem. this company said we don't have the hardware to address these problems. to think more like humans do. to actually solve these issues ai is trying to address.

carol: we need a new chip. talk to us about how this chick -- chip needs to think how we do. >> totally. the other thing is that the two types of chips that came before, cpu's, gpu's, basically, they thought, let's be as precise as possible. they were based on the calculator. and that is not how humans think. when we go into a roundabout but we don't figure out the precise dimension. calculator. seeing jason and carol, we don't analyze every pixel of your face. we need a processor that thinks like a human. that plucks a different nodes in the sphere and can process amorphous data structures. jason: this gets to the core, pun intended, of silicon valley. the semi conductor is the fundamental piece of this tech revolution.

they need to go back and rethink what they are doing. how'd you do that? >> that is what they had to do. the whole chip industry is based on the idea that the transistors on the chip will double. the issue is as they double and double, these processes are getting superhot. they started getting very hot and power-hungry. so this company, they need to say, how do we designed this chip so it is not just imprecisely calculating to save energy, but is also doing it in an efficient way. chips, historically have been designed separately from memory. the processing a chip does, it

usually has to go to a different component of hardware. it is super power-hungry. carol: and not productive. >> not at all. so this chip combines logic with memory so it can do thinking and storage at the same moment. they have broken it up into 1200 processor cores. i apologize for it being too technical, but it is fun. so they act independently doing the small problems. and at the moment when it is most efficient, they sync up and share learnings. carol: love that story. talking about what is next in terms of processing your -- processing. taylor riggs is here with more of the story. taylor: nvidia is one of the leading chipmakers, but already investors have focused and traded that premium. given the big gains they have made in gpu's. those are the graphic processors. and their competitors investors

really rewarding those shares. you wonder if nvidia would rise a little higher as they are clearly a clear leader in ipu's. carol: if they can continue the transition. taylor riggs, thank you so much. jason: coming up, why huawei's engineers are working 24 hour days. carol: and the amazing discoveries made by underwater drones. jason: this is "bloomberg businessweek." ♪ jason: welcome back to

"bloomberg businessweek." carol: join us every day on the radio from 2 p.m. to 5 p.m. wall street time. you can also catch up on our podcast. finds that on itunes, soundcloud, and bloomberg.com. jason: also, find us online and through our mobile app. carol: the technology section, with huawei's selection of drying up. jason: they are working on

contingency plans. we talked to our editor. >> we have been covering huawei a lot from the perspective of president trump and how he has targeted the company, encouraging our allies to take action. we have been tracking this is now the story our reporters in asia have been following is, basically, they are calling up their troops. calling on all employees. the business is operating 24/7 to react to what has been happening. and what is happening is the commerce department has taken action against the company and put it on a blacklist. the company cannot buy parts from u.s. companies and u.s. companies cannot do business with huawei. now, it is starting to have a trickle effect. trump's efforts to get allies to go along with this is gaining traction.

so huawei is looking to basically make up for any of those needs that were fulfilled by u.s. companies internally. were fulfilled u.s. companies internally on its own. is pulling the troops together. everyone from the company so that they can rid themselves of dependency from american companies. they are really approaching it. that is precisely what is happening. they had a lot of resources. they had something like 10,000 developers. all kinds of people. every level. if you are functioning 24/7, the building needs to be kept clean and the developers need to be working and doing everything that they can to to develop

everything that they were sourcing from other places. is american supply chain suddenly dramatically being cut off. i think there are concerns that will happen with others. is ant we have seen internal and external effort. our colleague in china had an exclusive interview with the huawei.of wall way -- he is taking a very bold position. sign is taking it as a that this company being targeted is not because it is weak. u.s., mostead of the american companies. this is why president trump, essentially what he said in the interview, is why they are being targeted. they are in a very good position to push back against this. >> we will stay with technology

but get back to this sooner than you think section. a story that underwater drones are mapping the ocean floor. andhey tripled the data discovered lost submarines, carriers, and the potential for many more discoveries. when i first got into this story, it was because i was fascinated by the missing malaysian airliner. when they first started looking or it was an unbelievable technological challenge. they trace signals the airplane .ad sent an areand up searching the size of great britain. the technology that they had at the time was that they would tow a sonar begin and it would

transmit sound raves -- soundwaves and form a picture of the seabed. >> like mowing a lawn? >> yeah, exactly. you go for miles and you turn around and you come back. that was the technology at the time. late 2014 to 2016. >> and this is sending pictures back to human beings. eyeballs on these images being set up. find it.'t no one could explain why. maybe we should look further. a company called ocean infinity steps up. no one knew who they were or why they were doing this. they said to the malaysian government, we will extend the search for free if when and if we find it ups then.

the game forkin in malaysia. go ahead. it only been a couple of years since the search started but they had a new radically different technology. instead of pulling this dumb sensor, you are sending down a n auv.sub, a drone, a vehicle.i underwater was skeptical because you are operating in one of the most difficult environments in the world. 40's.all it the roaring it is a notoriously terrible weather area of the ocean. as you are putting each drone down in sequence, the ones we are putting down our finding their way to the search pattern. each one is mowing the lawn in a

coordinated way so that collectively they are not searching the area. could iceberg's be the answer to south africa's water problem? >> this is bloomberg businessweek.

carol: welcome back to "bloomberg businessweek." jason: you can also listen to us on the radio on sirius xm channel 119, and on a.m. 1130 in new york, 106.1 in boston, 99.1 f.m. in washington, d.c. carol: a.m. 960 in the bay area, london on dab digital, and through the bloomberg business app. in this issue, more than a dozen companies have working prototypes of passenger drones. jason: it could be sooner than at least i thought. >> more than half a dozen

companies already have flying prototypes in the air. we have seen manned and unmanned test flights across las vegas, in dubai, and lots of companies from the u.s. to germany, to china, are vying for investor money and try to conquer the skies, basically. jason: so many questions. the first, is this a mass-market play? are we going to see major cities in the world? is there a vision of people moving through the city in these taxi driver? >> there certainly are several cities that are explicitly looking at these forms of transportation. the middle east is far ahead and asia is relatively far ahead as well. these are cities that are relatively confined.

there is lots of capital there, lots of people, lots of traffic. robo taxis are a way to get people away from congested streets. it is a very convenient way of traveling. yeah. it is also environmentally friendly. nearly all of the flying taxis being developed are electric. jason: wow. so who are the companies leading the way here? >> we have several. we have a company in germany called volocopter. it has basically developed a drone on steroids that has already had manned and unmanned test flights over the dubai

port. they are building a port, an airport for robo taxis in singapore this year where they will start test flights, public test flights. and there is a chinese company that is doing pretty well that has already flown. there are american companies involved that already have prototypes flying. so, yeah, the skies are pretty busy already. jason: i love some of the names of the companies. astro elroy, a call back to the jetsons. kitty hawk, a call back to the wright brothers. where is this going to go? >> the cheaper version is unmanned, autonomous. and that is the ideal way of transporting. you board a flying taxi, you tap a few buttons, then the taxi

will fly you autonomously to your destination. there are already price estimates from a trip from jfk to manhattan for about $70. that is certainly affordable, not much more than a taxi. but just a scaling up that model and flying autonomously will be the key here to keep prices low. carol: also, south africans are facing shortages of clean drinking water. jason: and one sea captain says a 100 million ton iceberg, that's big, it may be the fix for the problem. here is caroline winter. -- carolina winter. >> i guess this is not that new of an idea but it focuses on a marine salvage expert. nicholas sloan, the sort of guy

who's career involves repelling onto burning supertankers and cleaning oil spills and remote waters. for those of you who remember, he boarded the costa concordia, the famous italian cruise ship. it sank off the coast of tuscany. he lives in cape town and has been experiencing the droughts. numerous drought seasons. it culminated last year with what they call a day zero, where the government said cape town was within months of running out of drinking water and municipal water in general. they really cut down the water rates. so he begins thinking about using his unusual skill set for doing what others have talked about, towing icebergs from antarctica close enough so that

the water can be harvested. carol: let's talk about this. it is not the first time people have thought about this or worked on it. but exactly what kind of iceberg are we talking about? how do you physically do that? >> right. [laughter] that is a long story. but he is looking for an iceberg that is about 25 million tons. it would be about 1000 meters by 500 by 250. it would be an antarctic iceberg. they are typically much, much bigger than arctic icebergs. they tend to be tabular because they break off of the antarctic landmass. that makes the more stable and easier to tow. the idea would be to pick up one of these icebergs that has already traveled halfway to south africa.

they would need to use satellite to locate the ideal iceberg and use radar and sonar to make sure it is structurally sound. and then they want to surround it with a giant net, basically, with two supertankers pulling it and two tugboats. it is a detailed process you will have to read about, but they think they can do it. jason: i have to say, showtimes "billions" is one of my favorite shows and is wrapping up. carol: i sat down with the show creators and we talked about how the program has explored the gender identity of wall street. >> hedge funds have tendrils to the past and are mostly male-dominated, largely white males. in a company, the founder can

put his stamp on his company and set the climate. especially if they are doing well. people will follow it. we just thought that he could be a guy who -- it's not a question if he is liberal or conservative, but he judges people based on the values they provide. so if he confers this person is so valuable, everybody else will fall in line and accord this person respect that he does. we just thought it be interesting to not have been caught up in the pettiness of it. there is only one person who responds with anger and it plays like an insult. he uses the feminine pronoun in that moment. it is very intentional. >> but also, we found it was easy. once you know somebody and spend

time with someone who is gender non-binary, to not use a name, people ask all the time, to use the wrong program, it would literally be like calling dave bob in a moment of anger. you just think of the person that way. and it was not easy for the two of us. we are a couple of 50 euros guys who came from a culture that did not know gender non-binary people existed. but after a week hanging out with asia, you would never think of calling them anything other than that pronoun. but that is who they are and that is who they are. >> one thing that happened when we were shooting the first episode, even though we had been working with asia for two years. when they were wearing the dress and the makeup and the wake, these feminine pronouns to started flying out. nobody could help it. and even asia was like it's fine because i am presenting this way.

don't worry about. and when all of that stuff came off the next shooting day or whatever, it came back to normal. it was very odd. the way people respond in this visualized away. carol: "bloomberg businessweek" is available now. jason: what is your must-read? carol: i like so much of the issue, but austin's story about the next generation of processors and what they might be able to do would be able to open up a whole world in terms of technology. love that story. jason: it is a cool story. carol: your must-read? jason: ashlee vance, one of my favorite writers out there. i got a chance to catch up with them in palo alto not too long ago. this takes you inside his brain. he is so thoughtful about where silicon valley was, where is, the rest of the world. and the social and economic business implications, you have got to read. carol: his stories have deftly -- i have definitely sparked

conversations in my own home. and you can find more stories online. jason: and check out our podcast. carol: more bloomberg television starts now. ♪

scarlet: i am scarlet fu, this is "etf iq." we focus on the assets, risks and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: freedom and markets, there is a common effect relationship, which is why her etf excludes china and saudi arabia. getting no respect. the videogame industry makes more money than robotics and cybersecurity, but it's etf attracts fewer assets. what is behind the gap?