♪ vonnie: i'm vonnie quinn in new york in for emily chang. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up in the next hour, president trump says he is the obstacle holding up a trade deal with china. meantime, apple is already coming up with a contingency plan to move out of china. and the congress probe into big tech kicks off with how the likes of google and facebook are challenging the news industry. we speak to a top lawmaker who doesn't think big is necessarily

bad. videogame companies are trying to one up each other at the e3 gaming convention in california. we will hear from a top executive from microsoft and take-two ceo. first, to the top story. president trump says he will not finalize a trade deal with china unless beijing returns to terms negotiated earlier in the year. trump spoke to reporters as he left the white house for iowa, a day after he threatened to raise tariffs on china if chinese president xi jinping does not meet with president trump at the g20 summit. pres. trump: china is a major competitor and right now, china wants to make a deal very badly. it is me right now who is holding up the deal. vonnie: apple is geared up with a backup plan if the trade war gets out of hand. its manufacturing partner says it is able to make all iphones bound for the u.s. outside of china if necessary. right now, the company makes all

-- most of apple's smartphones at chinese factories. how did the company decide it was able to do this, to make all of apple's products outside of china so quickly? >> this was an executive who was talking to investors and other people in taiwan and our reporter was there to listen. this is more of a plan. the executive didn't say that apple has asked foxconn to do it yet but he was saying basically that they are very capable of doing it. it raises questions. we spoke to an analyst over here who looks at the smartphone industry. he was saying that if you are talking about actual final assembly, which is what a lot of what foxconn does, that might be relatively easy to move. if you are talking about the whole manufacturing process, that would be a lot harder. vonnie: we know that politically

china and taiwan are at odds. the company is in taiwan. is there any danger that china would retaliate against the company if apple would move all of its production to the taiwanese company? alistair: that is a good question. apple has to be careful in general with this kind of thing. some of the activities going on with huawei in the u.s., where the u.s. government is encouraging companies and consumers to steer clear of huawei. that has really raised concerns about what happens to the treatment of apple in china. there have been a lot of concerns that there has been an unofficial recommendation that chinese consumers not buy iphones. that market is really important for apple. it is a big risk. vonnie: hon hai, of course also known as foxconn, had a plan for a wisconsin plant.

that would have employed 13,000 people. do those plans change? alistair: the executive who was speaking yesterday seemed kind of bullish about wisconsin plant and he kind of placed it in the same strategic realm has moving the iphone assembly out of china. india is something to consider, too. foxconn has plants in india already and was dealing with similar types of restrictions from the indian government. it certainly does have a lot of options around the world. vonnie: alistair barr, thank you. alistair barr of bloomberg technology. when it comes to taking an antitrust lens to pick tech, it is not just a federal game. today, nine states and the district of columbia filed suit to block the merger. it is between sprint and t-mobile. here's new york attorney general letitia james announcing the

action. >> a fabulous group of attorneys, unsealed a multistate lawsuit in the united states district court of the southern district of new york to halt the proposed merger of telecom giants t-mobile and sprint. when it comes to corporate power, bigger isn't always better. vonnie: joining us, bloomberg's senior antitrust analyst jennifer rie. the teacher james presenting the argument for the state attorneys general. will this action have any impact on the doj? they have yet to make a decision. jennifer: it is possible. it may have been filed when it was filed to put pressure on the doj to join or file their own suit. it is possible. it could also be that this was filed because the state attorneys general seem to think that the doj was ready to clear

it because they want to take charge. vonnie: do we know what the state attorneys general will accept? have they presented any plans that are acceptable to them? jennifer: we don't know yet. clearly what has been offered to the fcc, which we know about from the company, and some of these additional remedies it looks like the doj is seeking maybe some satellite sales, they provided promises about lower prices, about building out 5g into rural areas. we know what is on the table for that. clearly because the suit was filed, the states don't see that as proper. they don't see that as something that could fix the heart of this deal. it could be there are additional concessions that could get them to settle. but that's unclear. the one thing that is clear is they have a little more flexibility than the department of justice in terms of what they might accept in a settlement.

vonnie: if the department of justice comes out with a decision, do the state attorneys general then back off? will they be happy with an agreement on the part of the ftc and the doj? would that be enough? jennifer: it wouldn't because they filed this with doj looming. any day now, the doj could come out and say we have agreed to the deal and here's this settlement and the consent order and we are ready to clear it. the state lawsuit will stay. they know they can -- that can happen. in this situation, they are ready to go it alone if they have to. it is interesting that you should bring that up because if there is this bolstered remedy, one of the things the states are going to have to do in the lawsuit is proved to the judge not only that there harm from this merger but that that harm can't be fixed by these two remedies, the fcc and doj remedy, that federal regulators have been ready to accept. that is an additional hurdle. vonnie: sprint and t-mobile have promised that consumer prices

won't go up. is that not enough, if that was written in the constitution of the combined company -- would that be enough to satisfy the states' attorneys general? they are after all only worried about the consumer. jennifer: i think it wouldn't because that promise would only last so long. it will not be ad nauseam. seven years or three years or 10 years. what happens after that when you only have three competitors rather than four, and the two that where the big price cutters cutters and competitive against each other have combined? that would be one thing. the second thing is it's not just about lower price. they have also alleged there could be lower quality for certain consumers, particularly prepaid subscribers. when you have three companies instead of four, even with the prices, it doesn't create incentives to put money into r&d or make sure quality is maintained.

vonnie: thank you. coming up, we head to los angeles for coverage of the e3 gaming convention. our conversation with take-two interactive ceo strauss zelnick is next. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. you can listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s. on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪

vonnie: the e-sports market is booming with highly skilled players, arena-sized audiences, and a revenue projected to reach $1.8 billion by 2022.

bloomberg's shelley hagan takes a look. shelley: it is a far leap from the penny arcade. e-sports takes the gaming world with highly technical players, arena-sized audiences, and big sales. the global e-sports market raked in $865 million in revenue over 2018. with nearly 26 million viewers in the u.s. the audience is larger in asia, boasting 50% of the world's viewers, compared to 12% in north america. with the e3 conference underway this week in california, all eyes are on the booming business. two california-based gaming companies, activision blizzard and electronic arts, have a combined market cap of more than $60 billion. private investment is growing as well. venture capital investment in

the u.s. reached one point $8 billion in 2018, with a more than 5000% increase in a 10 year period. cloud nine e-sports, a north american team, raised $58 million last year. teams compete in games like fortnite and league of legends. have totaleded to 100 million players. the winners take home more than the high score. the largest prize pool was more million at the international 2018 in vancouver. with the global market projected to reach $1.8 billion by 2022, it is far from game over. shelley hagan, bloomberg news, new york. tonie: now let's head over the videogame industry's largest annual gathering, e3, which kicks off today in los angeles. developers, including microsoft

activision blizzard, electronic and take-two interactive, just a few industry players participating in the events to highlight upcoming releases. this year's conference is different than years past. instead of focusing on hardware and new titles, a lot of it has to do with streaming and how these games are played. take-two interactive ceo strauss zelnick joins us now. what can we look forward to in terms of new releases from take-two interactive? >> here at 83, we are showing borderland three, the third in the iteration. it comes out september 13. we are super excited about it. we have 100 different stations where you complete the game here. beple seem really happy to playing the game. vonnie: in terms of the pipeline, what do we expect from take-two beyond that? a lot of people are talking

about red dead online. may.ited beta in should we anticipate more? strauss: you should be expecting more content online. there will be plenty coming. coming fort also grand theft auto online, which continues to be a big title v and a half years after its original release. of course, we have nba 2k coming and wwe 2k. should be a very exciting year for us. vonnie: are you interested in bidding for any other sports licenses? you mentioned nba, you also have wwe. what else are you interested in? strauss: the sports business is pretty well spoken for. the nfl property is under exclusive license. one of our biggest competitors controls the fifa title. we have brought out other sports.

we have golf, for example. we have boxing, hockey. right now, our focus is on golf and of course basketball. vonnie: we are seeing more and more subscription models. what is your plan for subscription and streaming? are you launching your own platform or anything like that? strauss: we want always to distinguish between a technology , streaming, and a business model, subscription. we are interested in both but they are different animals. you can have a subscription business without streaming and streaming without subscription. we are excited about the upcoming launch of google's technology. we are excited about many potential developments in the market. we are supporting google, microsoft x cloud, and i expect we will support others as well. subscription vehicles, many are being developed, some already. we are open-minded. in terms of a direct to consumer presence, we have our own small

direct to consumer presence and we are obviously looking at that market as well. generally speaking, when people look to acquire entertainment properties, they want to go where they can get a multiplicity of properties, not just an offering from one company. vonnie: interesting. you have had a partnership with tencent for china since 2012. how concerned are you about the current standoff between the u.s. and china for growth of take-two interactive there? strauss: we are very optimistic about china. our relationship with tencent is great. the nba 2k online title, which is a joint venture between ourselves and tencent, is the number one pc sports title in china with 45 million registered users. the consumer spending on that title is actually up about 74% year-over-year. we also distribute in china in a myriad of other ways. our nba 2k title was just approved ps4 in china.

we think there is a great market opportunity in china and we are hopeful the trade talks will be resolved amicably, positively, and in a way that is beneficial for the overall entertainment systems. vonnie: i have to ask you, your interim chairman of the board, reportedly there is a meeting friday to discuss a viacom merger. what would you make of that? what can you tell us about this? strauss: out here, i'm talking about the videogame business, so not much. my primary focus right now is the excitement around take-two and the upcoming release. vonnie: if there were a board meeting, presumably you would have all of your e3 meetings done by friday. strauss: [laughter] as i said, i'm pretty focused right now in the videogame business. vonnie: all right, we will look forward to hearing from you friday or post friday. thank you very much and the best

of luck at e3. that is take-two interactive ceo strauss zelnick. coming up, more e3 coverage out of los angeles. how microsoft is gearing up to take on google's nearest streaming platform. "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter. check us out @technology. this is bloomberg. ♪

vonnie: back to our coverage of e3 in l.a. more than 70,000 fans are expected at the videogame industry's biggest event. this year, the biggest shift focused on game consoles to streaming platforms. google has upped the ante, announcing a $10 monthly price tag last week. microsoft is not far behind. ed ludlow caught up with the head of xbox game studios. he revealed a bit more about the

service. >> for us, everything starts with great games. the way i approach it, if you start out to design a game with a certain strategy, you can paint yourself into a corner. if you set out to make a great game, you can support whatever you want to do later. we have designed some games that turned out to be fantastic. nobody in our studio sat down and said i want to make a good game path. with streaming, we want to make great games. i think it unlocks some amazing things in terms of how we will approach multiplayer and how we approach the types of gameplay. you will be playing on the go or may be doing things that you will be related to a game. >> do you see most users playing on the xbox? how is that balance going to work? >> we see them playing across all those devices. pc, console, mobile.

we have a great selection. 60 games, 14 from our first party studios. it is about putting the player at the center of what we do and providing choice. we announced game pass. it is all about choice, whether you want to be a console gamer or pc gamer. for us, project x cloud and streaming is about expanding the choice to give people more places to play. >> google has priced there is at $10 a month. surprising,found it making it accessible to a lot of people. expect the cloud to be competitive pricing-wise? >> we haven't shared pricing yet. we will talk more about that in the fall. >> so you do think it will be competitive? google today coming out with $15. >> i do think you can expect that. >> one of the areas people have been talking about is the involvement of celebrities and games. a big unveiled keanu reeves

sunday. comes out on sunday, revealed as a big character. what did you make of that? >> it was a big secret to a lot of us, too. to be honest, i think he was pleasantly surprised when he saw the enthusiasm from our fans and how excited people get when someone like him shows up. it is an authentic character. i think people saw that it was authentic and genuine. i have not seen as much consoles as in previous years. what do you make about that? >> it is about choice, putting players at the center. we know people will still want to play games in their living room. it is the social hub of our families, our homes. the best place to play games is still at the center of your living room on the tv. that is why we made it such a focus.

reporter: china is a big videogames market. how do you view china? >> we have had success in china, particularly around minecraft. we have other games with tencent. the key is finding multiple partners in markets that really understand the chinese player, understand how to the negative eight regulations. our approach has been to partner with other folks and bring our team authentically to the chinese market. reporter: one of the concerns is about game approvals. how do you see that playing out? >> again, that's why i think it is so important to have partners that understand the nuance. it is hard to keep track of from seattle. we are very grateful for the productive partnership we have with people like tencent. reporter: given that china is the biggest market with the revenue and players, are you concerned that the trade war,

that may limit the u.s. developers' access to that market? >> i will just say that again, we have strong partnerships with people local in china like tencent, and we will look to them to help navigate that. vonnie: that was matt booty from microsoft at e3 in los angeles. e-cigarette start of juul reported first-quarter sales of $528 million, a 23% increase from the previous period. in november, they opted to stop selling certain flavors of the nicotine pods in stores to mitigate the breakaway popularity with underage that. led to a drop in sales -- underage users. that led to a drop in sales at the end of coming up, dropbox is 2018. coming after microsoft and google. how the productivity software company is evolving from a file storage system to collaborative workspace. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

vonnie: this is "bloomberg technology." i'm vonnie quinn in new york. dropbox unveiled new integrated workspace tuesday. the biggest overhaul of its software to date. the company has a new desktop workspace with updates that are to its website and mobile app, that allows customers to combine different files and collaborate across teams. romaine bostick and caroline hyde spoke with the dropbox ceo drew houston about the new changes. drew: we are really excited about it. it has been a big morning. we launched the biggest change we ever made to our product and all new desktop app. it evolves the dropbox experience from a folder full of files to a living team workspace

where you can have files, any kind of cloud content. things like google docs. really, anything you are using. integrations with tools like slack and zoom. from within dropbox, you can send people messages. you can start meetings, send things out for signatures, see your calendar. it is a much more integrated workspace because we saw so many of our customers and ourselves struggling with these new apps, they are great but how do you stitch them together? we see a big opportunity to make that a seamless opportunity. we are excited and cannot wait to get it out there. romaine: do you see this type of integration of apps, do you think this is something we will see more of not just in your particular corner of the tech space, but with other types of software and software services? drew: absolutely. certainly, most if not all companies want integration, but the opportunity we saw is to organize it. to really bring it into a well-designed, coherent experience different from some of the messaging tools. what dropbox allows you to do,

within a native app, you can have all your content in one place that works across different ecosystems. instead of the interface being a list of messages, you can see here is what we are working on, here is the project, here is the most important piece of the content. we think from a design standpoint it is a different approach. caroline: from the perspective that the aim is to keep everyone coming back to dropbox, as much as you are working with the other apps, you are also competitive. you are competing for people's time. do you think this plethora of new apps we are having can really survive? the fact you have deals with zoom, slack, google, microsoft -- do you think the ecosystem can support all these different players? drew: we certainly do. what we are seeing is that users want choice. they are using all kinds of different apps for communication, content. what is missing is a way to stitch it together. so that is the role we think we

can play. it is very similar to the role we played in the beginning, help you get to your stuff from all these different platforms. now we think about how to organize and simplify your working life and stitch together these different things. a lot of what we are doing is complementary. you will not stop using these other tools. in fact, we are making it easier for you to get them. we find that a lot of our customers love using these different tools, but they need a more integrated experience and not having that means you are always switching back and forth and there is a lot of friction. caroline: it is interesting within the enterprise software space, we are talking about numerous players. when actually the argument from capitol hill is that too few players when it comes to the technology space, they need to be broken up. they are monolithic, monopolies. as a ceo in the tech space, how do you take this sudden viewpoint coming from capitol hill, and do you think it has

grounds in any way? drew: i think it is an important conversation to be having. from our perspective, we think competition is a good thing. and we need a level playing field. so it is an important conversation. romaine: what are the other conversations, the idea of responsibility a lot of tech companies, particularly those who traffic in content have. i wonder how you view not only what has happened, but what type of responsibility you think the companies themselves should be shouldering to make sure their services are being used in a proper way? drew: sure. i mean, trust and safety is the first thing on all of our minds. and all aspects of that. whether it is the security of service, the content people are putting on services like dropbox, keeping them safe, i think we are seeing a broader conversation of a lot of technology companies putting -- finding themselves in situations, how do we protect free speech but then what do you do when people put up content that is objectionable or unsafe

or not true? fortunately our role is a little simpler. people don't usually use dropbox as a publishing platform, but we certainly care about the safety and well-being of our users. to the extent that anybody does put objectionable or unsafe confidence -- content on dropbox, we take it down. vonnie: drew houston there. meanwhile, line which counts 18 million monthly active users in japan has been investing heavily into syntax operations. speaking to bloomberg, the co-ceos say they may see new businesses breakout even sooner than now. -- than planned. >> it depends on how fast we secure the users. in this domain, i think we can be profitable in the near future, in one year or two years. vonnie: coming up, we had to capitol hill to hear one lawmaker's thoughts on big tech's big power versus the media. our conversation with

congressman doug collins is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

vonnie: the house judiciary committee began its hearings on whether or not big tech has gotten too big. they kicked things off by looking at the detrimental effect the internet has had on the state of journalism. for example, according to a pew research december study, more american adults now get their news from social media than they do from print newspapers. joining us now is the top republican on the house judiciary committee, congressman doug collins of georgia's ninth district. he was part of today's hearings. also with us is bloomberg executive global editor for technology tom giles. congressman, we know that

newspapers, in particular local news has seen tremendous cutbacks. what was your main take away from today's hearing? is there anything that can be done legislatively to combat that? rep. collins: the journalism protection act is something that begins the discussion on how tech and news can work together to provide a better platform so that everyone can be enriched. i think the interesting thing is we don't want to lose out on the local content and flavor. the big platforms are not going to cover that. the big platforms and tech platforms to want to lose out on the content it helps them generate as well. this is an opportunity for everyone to come to the table and have ideas on how we can move forward in a symbiotic relationship instead of one that seems to be at odds at times. tom: representative collins, my question for you is how exactly

will your legislation help remedy the situation? rep. collins: what it will do is instead of the small, take for example my district, which is a relatively rural district with a single county or weekly paper. they have no way to negotiate with bigger platforms on their advertising rights and respect for the content that is being taken at this point. our bill does is for a four-year period is take out the antitrust exemption to allow these newspapers in various areas to come together and negotiate in a better bargaining position. and say, how can we continue to protect the content and get a better rate in advertising, and get a cut of that? it also allows the house to come in and say how we can better enhance what we are offering as well? vonnie: would you ever subpoena executives or documents even if they were proprietary? rep. collins: going into subpoenas is something that has been overblown.

this is a time at that what we have agreed to do have a hearing and to say there is a legislative solution as if this is an adversarial solution. i want the tech companies and others to come in and say how are we in the state of technology now? i'm not one that says they need to be broken up because it is big. i think what we need to say is how do these new technologies work in the environment today and how their competitors work traditionally in antitrust? when we understand that, everyone has a part in the picture to play as we look forward to the privacy and data and commercial space on how tech dominates and how the other industries work with them. to come to a solution we have to have input first and most players will be involved in that. vonnie: there has been an effort to suppress or downplay conservative views on social media? rep. collins: i think there is some valid and legitimate questions. we have had some of these conversations before with the

social media platforms. i spoke to sundar pichai of google about how the algorithms work. how the searches work. we talked with twitter, we talked with facebook. these are conversations that need to happen. i think especially the youtube issue, we have to make sure at a certain point in time the safe harbor positions are working as they should and the platforms that have enormous responsibility for what they put out on their platform, it is not just simply a billboard where everyone goes by and puts up what they want to put up. there is editing involved. i think that is a very valid conversation for these tech platforms to answer for. tom: what is your response to the argument that the big tech companies have actually helped media companies stay afloat and indeed thrive by providing them a low-cost distribution platform? rep. collins: i would not disagree there has not been areas in which they have been able to thrive. i think that came out at the

hearing today, that some of these organizations and along with the big tech platforms have an ability to increase their viewership or increase their presence. at the end of the day, many of the smaller news organizations are having the content taken without being able to access the profitability part which is in the accounting revenue and ad revenue or actually pay for the content being used. it is not a matter of the pie being enlarged. the question is keeping some of the folks away from accessing what is rightfully theirs from a content perspective. tom: we understand the doj and ftc have had a meeting of the minds and are in a way dividing the tech industry. what is your sense of how effective law enforcement and regulation can be in terms of reining in the technology industry? rep. collins: again, it goes from a simple -- the doj and ftc are looking at this from a perspective, has there been issues that need to investigate from a legal standpoint?

that need a legal remedy? i'm sure they will look into that as a forefront. the question i have is, this is not simply to say we need to step in simply because a company is dominant or a company is big. sometimes you get big because you provide a better mousetrap. that is never something from my perspective that should be punished. as we look at that, if there are criminal acts that need to be involved, antitrust issues, i am sure that will be looked at. but i want to see it come forward in a position, especially from a congressional standpoint, how does this work in the overall economy and how do we let everything work together? vonnie: congressman collins, democratic presidential candidate elizabeth warren has been advocating the breakup of big tech. is it possible this could be a rare moment of bipartisan agreement? do you see any possibility for you all on the republican side and somebody like elizabeth warren to work together on something like this? rep. collins: i don't believe so if she comes that it with saying we need to break it up simply because we need to break it up. elizabeth warren spouts idea

sometimes to get press releases so her presidential campaign might get some press. simply saying a company needs to be broken up because they are too big is what orrin hatch used to call hipster antitrust. it's just because we don't like it because it is big. for elizabeth warren to say that is what needs to happen without explaining how that will actually make it better, the next questions would be, if you broke them up, how would you break them up? who gets the algorithm? how would it affect competition? this is not an at&t where you can be distributed. this is intellectual property. this is algorithms, techniques. ideas we, many times, are talking about so i think sometimes the quick reaction is, they break it up and that will make it at her. that is a very political answer for someone desperately searching for headlines. vonnie: congressman doug collins of georgia. thank you for joining us. and bloomberg's tom giles, as always, thank you for joining. bryan goldberg may not be rupert

murdoch, at least not yet, but he has made a big impression in just a few years. now he's rebooted a website that once mocked him. we cover goldberg in the latest edition of "bloomberg businessweek." max chafkin joins us now. the big reveal is? max: gawker.com, the gossip tabloid website that famously was basically sued into bankruptcy in a complicated litigation that was financed in part by the venture capitalist peter thiel on behalf of the wrestler hulk hogan. incredibly weird story and the ending is even weirder. goldberg is known from "bleacher report," which is a very successful sports website owned by turner. they bought it for about $200 million. he started this website which is , it is bustle, a collection of online magazines, primarily a women's magazine on bustle.com. this is the next piece of that

portfolio. vonnie: he proved himself with bleacher, right? people did not believe it would be successful. he used the model of citizen journalism. he has a bit of a track record. about 90% of bustle's revenue comes from advertising. is this sustainable? max: most online media companies are in trouble now because of this that. online advertising has not been a growth business. all the revenue going to two companies, google, facebook. most of the big players, including the big media companies like hearst and "the new york times," are doubling down on subscription and finding ways to drive additional revenue. or with e-commerce. goldberg is basically going with clicks. a lot of ways, it looks like a media business circa five or 10 years ago. and you know, so far, so good. it is sort of working for him. vonnie: except there are problems associated with that, not the least of all the writers themselves are not even paid minimum wage some of the times. max: we saw this model with a

lot of companies 10 years ago. demand media which actually went public and actually sputtered in a bad way was what was known as a click farm. or that is what critics called it. goldberg has the same charge leveled against him with writers getting paid very little per article. dollars per post or just a few dollars per hour. it should be said in response to our article, people said number one, we pay new york city minimum wage which is $15 an hour. which you can take or leave, i suppose. they also said rates have been going up. their position is they are trying to build a sustainable model. yes, they may be lower than some people may like but we are doing better. we are building a real business. vice, wen buzzfeed and have seen mass layoffs recently. but, goldberg seems to be onto something.

could he be the next conde nast? could he be putting the next hearst out of business? max: goldberg wrote a post that the key to success in media is having no shame, which i believe is true. i believe that quote which is they will be the next conde nast would be an example of shamelessness. that said, big media companies have grown out of, have had humble origins. the point is, you never know. we have definitely seen an evolution with the perception of a brand like bustle which was initially the butt of a lot of jokes and now taken seriously by people. you can see the same trajectory with other brands. vonnie: max chafkin, thank you. a great story. hear more from the magazine's editors, reporters every saturday and sunday morning on "bloomberg businessweek" on bloomberg television. still ahead, bitcoin saw its best month of may in almost two years, but is the crypto winter really over? we will discuss all things blockchain and crypto next. this is bloomberg. ♪

vonnie: crypto security startup fireblock announced it raised $16 million in series a funding. the company which helps transfer coins between exchanges has one high-profile customer, genesis trading. digital currency group is the most active investor in the blockchain and bitcoin industry, backing more than 140 companies in 30 countries around the world. joining us to discuss all things blockchain is digital currency group founder and ceo barry silbert. i have to wonder if it isn't almost a cheap bet to put some money into the next crypto or the next blockchain company?

after all, one or two or several of them will be winners, right? barry: we think so. as you mentioned, having invested in 140 companies around the world, we are spreading our bets. vonnie: why is that? are they not very obviously distinguishable from one another? why would you be spread so, i don't want to say thin because 140 companies is not being spread thin. that is being spread wide. barry: our strategy is working on investing in the asset class and investing in bitcoin and other digital assets. so our investment in the company's is an attempt at building infrastructure that is required to make this asset class as big as it could become. vonnie: it feels like there was a rebound but things got a little bit depressed for bitcoin and related cryptocurrencies. barry: when you have been in bitcoin as long as i have, since

2011, we have been through quite a roller coaster. the prices have gone down 80% four times. but in the past four times, the price has hit record highs afterwards. if you look at the price for bitcoin, it looks like perhaps we are coming out of the crypto winter and have entered the crypto spring. vonnie: crypto is on one hand, but on the other hand you have blockchain. blockchain technology is being adopted by mainstream businesses as well as nonmainstream businesses, but it seems to be more acceptable to talk about blockchain than digital coins and digital currencies. what blockchain companies do you have your eye on that will make it? barry: we have invested in a couple dozen companies that are building infrastructure using blockchain for nonfinancial use cases. what is interesting is the ones who are getting the most traction are the ones that are building infrastructure for the

asset class. exchanges and compliance software, and companies building custody solutions. what is happening is this growing awareness and a recognition that bitcoin and other digital assets are here to stay. the question is, ok, if you want to get involved in the asset class, what are the different ways you can do it? you can invest directly in bitcoin. you can invest in one of our companies, bitcoin trust. grayscale has grayscale bitcoin trust. a lot of infrastructure being built that is making the asset class acceptable to the masses now. vonnie: we began our segment by talking about the crypto security startup fireblock. as this space grows, obviously there needs to be more crypto security companies. where should we be looking? barry: we invested in half a dozen companies that are per. --

that are providing that infrastructure. what is exciting is some of the larger well-known financial services companies, like fidelity as an example, are soon launching their own custody solutions. you have the new york stock exchange parent company ice launching in exchange. -- an exchange. you compare the infrastructure today relative to where it was right before the last bitcoin bull market in 2017, it is really night and day. so now the question is not if institutional money will move into the asset class, but the question is when? vonnie: digital currency group founder and ceo barry silbert, thank you for joining us. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." remember, "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter. check us out @technology and be sure to follow our global breaking news network, tictoc, on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

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