♪ >> i am taylor riggs in san francisco. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, facebook ceo mark zuckerberg assures lawmakers he will cooperate with the antitrust probe. crack the code, goldman sachs says traders who can't code will become extinct. and roku shares up ended. the video streaming platform company sees its second sell

rating. pivotal research calls the stocks -- first to our top story. facebook has suspended tens of thousands of third-party apps that were using the company's developer tools as part of a review facebook started following the cambridge analytical privacy scandal. the number of suspended apps was at 400 in august of 2018. facebook stated that not all of the apps were necessarily abusing or selling user data. many were not live when they were suspended. i am joined by bloomberg out of d.c. and san francisco. is the fact they are closing down some of these apps showing facebook is finally doing enough? >> it's unclear if any of these apps were important or relevant. i do think it shows the

followthrough. we are going to review all the stuff and take it seriously and see if we can find any apps that are violating these policies. they are actually going out in following through. i think it's a good sign they are stepping in the right direction. >> what came out of those meetings? >> it was clear he was on for leave for three days. it's clear he wants people to know he's taking this regulation conversation seriously. there are so many different areas of interest. there's content regulation and facebook's role in policing the internet. a lot of this has been done in california. to show up there and have these

meetings goes a long way to show he's taking it seriously, which they want everyone to understand. >> from the d.c. regulation point of view, how is zuckerberg received? >> a lot of lawmakers praised the ceo for coming down to meet with them. they have reduction conversations -- they have productive conversations with the ceo. it seems this was a good start for mark zuckerberg to ease some of those tensions we have seen over the last two years. i don't think it means facebook is off the hook here. >> doesn't this show that zuckerberg, facebook, big tech is starting to be proactive instead of reactive or on the defensive area >> we have seen mark zuckerberg call for more

global regulations such as privacy and portability and the like. the conversation becomes where does the rubber meet the road here, and does facebook agree to the kind of legislation that lawmakers intend on passing? will lawmakers be able to come together? will democrats and republicans be able to agree on brought technology framework? >> of all of these issues we've discussed, data privacy, antitrust, what was the most important this week? >> i have to imagine antitrust is a huge focus for facebook in terms of properly framing this in the way they want to. they are under investigation for multiple fronts. there is a ton of conversation around big tech. of all the issues, i think the most important -- the most important have to be this message that we are not too big and there are benefits to that.

at has been their approach, the say why it's helpful. >> i laughed a little bit when the senator said of zuckerberg was serious about data, he should sell off. any threat to raking up facebook here? >> i think we are a long ways off from that. being pursued by the federal trade commission, take a long time. poring over the various business model and business practices. it's really too early to tell at this point. >> let's switch from antitrust to the election, arguably the 2020 elections is coming up. has facebook zuckerberg done enough to show legislators he is

taking missing for -- taking this information seriously? >> they have been doing so much since 2016 area the big stuff as they set up these new guidelines for political advertisers, they have to jump through more hoops. those of us on the outside can go and check who is paying for this. those are the types of things that politicians wanted facebook to do. it doesn't all happen immediately. i don't think this is the last we heard from them in 2020. i can assume a few things. president trump likes to talk about censorship and the role facebook and twitter sometimes play in deciding what stays up and comes down. from a personal standpoint, mark zuckerberg cares about in -- about immigration reform. and talking about mexico.

i would be shocked if mark zuckerberg didn't voice some of his displeasure with the administration. >> how fun it would be to -- it would be to be a fly on that wall. climate change is changing the game for investors. we find out why next. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> this week we have seen big

tech combat climate change. amazon announced it will meet the goal of the paris agreement 10 years early. as we wrap up our recovering climate now week -- our covering climate week -- across the globe tens of thousands of protesters were out in force this friday to demand action on climate change from government, businesses and big attack. amazon workers walked out to stage a protest friday, despite ceo jeff bezos making the pledge on thursday that amazon will be carbon neutral by 2040. our investors paying attention? joining me to discuss his harvard kennedy school of government fellow jesse michael keenan. you join me from cambridge massachusetts. namely 1500 and plays from amazon walking out. is that a sign corporations and

some of these companies aren't doing enough? >> we have seen activism throughout the tech world, self organizing and bringing awareness in terms of environmental and social governance issues. i think that's resonating not just in the board were -- boardroom but among investors and shareholders. i think amazon's push to be carbon neutral, that is a significant contribution. we can all recognize the way we are getting packages and the like is wholly unsustainable. i think it is a positive first step and we should recognize these employees are having some positive effects. >> your latest article is a must read. i quoted you here when you say there is a technology arms race

among climate services providers to develop and understand the risk to different asset classes from climate change. i have to ask, who are these climate service providers? >> these companies range. sometimes they are conglomerates of engineering firms. in other cases they are startups. some of whom are bringing true innovation and discipline services that are consistent with scientific consensus. others are much more experimental. i think the question going forward among central banks and a broader ambition of greening and browning asset classes, we need technology to set those benchmarks for what is advancing climate change and what is pushing us in the other direction. what we need to be careful of his modes of transparency, quality control and quality insurance as to how these technologies are driving investment decisions. i think we are caught in an

interesting moment. we want to support private -- support proprietary technologies through r&d. we need to question what is in some of these black block -- lack box models. we have strong reason to believe there are good actors. that is causing problems in terms of market share and market development. >> what is your prescription for bringing more transparency to these black boxes? >> i think the private consumers and private-sector consumers will determine for themselves the value of some of the services and products. i think what is more concerning is as we get into capital planning and -- i think there are a couple of models owing forward, if you think about the

extent to which we are evaluating trade secrets and think about the extent to which there is some mechanism and public process and procurement where we begin to validate these things, some measure may be through peer review. i think there is a lot of predicate for engaging trade secrets in trying to get to an advance and quality control and quality insurance. i think we need to take it more seriously. >> you mention green and brown investments. is it simple as one actors? or am i simplifying that too much? >> i think it's an important point, which is across all asset classes. there are varying degrees of activities that follow along a range of green and brown. we will begin to benchmark those activities not only in terms of carbon footprint but increasingly in concern among

investors. both in terms of transitional risk, but also in terms of physical risk. we need technology to give us the empirical foundation for setting those benchmarks. there isn't an asset class immune from these considerations , disclosing and ultimately accounting for these impacts in the balance sheet both public and private. >> it is a must read on climate intelligence arms race. now reverberations in the u.s.-china trade war are being felt all over the globe. the head of the singapore base says the current climate is

affecting the supply chain as well as plans to expand in the u.s. the ceo told us about her experiences. >> i forget has had a tremendous impact. mainly what people feel is a sense of volatility. for a lot of companies in china or work with a lot of agents in china, they don't know if they should pull out completely, but they are starting to think about a diversified portfolio in sourcing. >> what is the biggest concern for them? >> i think the biggest concerns is they don't know how to price their products. the lack of visibility leads to a lack of planning in what they should be sourcing. the u.s. is rapidly changing what they buy in traditional businesses everyone plans a lot. >> is there one market where you are expanding aggressively.

>> we have always been a company build out of asia. 80% of the exports originate in asia in some way. 20% happen in the united states. not just to connect chinese manufacturers to brand customers in the u.s. but also manufacturers in vietnam and indonesia. we started nine weeks ago. >> a big issue for companies right now. how is that playing out? >> i think sustainability is a word that moves around a lot. it begins from responsible

manufacturing right up to recycling fabric this is a spectrum. it is a huge trend to be responsible, not fully sustainable. we are one of the very few companies because we have true transparency and visibility into exactly where the products came from. it is impossible for a non-cable company that has software rights to be able to say that none were harmed in the manufacturing of that product. i think it's an incredible advantage. >> that was co-founder -- at a time when gaming addition is

becoming a real concern, one company is looking to bring e-sports to the high school. we discussed the trend next. and bloomberg technology's livestreaming on twitter. be sure to follow our breaking news network on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> what is the future of e-sports look like? it starts well at the school. the company recently announced -- the comedies raised $96 million to help and e-sports to high schools across the country. for more on the high school expansion, let's bring in the lane. congrats on the funding and big bold moves planning to expand to 50 states. how do you plan to tackle that? >> we have a -- have an incredible team based in santa monica california. we are working hard to make sure we service all 50 states.

>> who are you partnering with on the gaming side to do this? >> we have partnerships with top team publishers. we allow cases to participate. this fall will be to offer similar games throughout the school year. >> i find it interesting there are some state associations involved and others that aren't yet. how do you make sure though state associations know who you are and get involved? >> we have a partnership with the national federation athletic associations. what they do is they have been

doing so for the past 100 years, operate parallel to the ncaa. because of that partnership, we have access to the state association and the state association leaders. as well as e-sports and educate them on the scene over the past two years. it's more of a matter of interest from the membership or bandwidth to produce this activity. we launched our first product seasons. we scaled that a few months later. within those partners state schools will compete state wide for a state championship endorsed by the state association. schools and other states will compete based on time zones. >> we have talked about how technology can be isolating.

make the case for why e-sports and high school is better than throwing a kid out on the soccer field. >> i don't think that is a case of better or worse. 28 million actually participate in sports. there is varsity jv. each team has a different roster limitations. 8 million kids go without being able to participate in the sports, though they may have the talent and the skills. what e-sports allows those kids to do is to have another opportunity to find community to improve their grades. with the rise of collegiate e-sports and the rise of scholarships. many of the same attributes that we find valuable in traditional sports that are available in

e-sports, that's a great opportunity to get kids involved. >> thank you for joining me. i want to take a look at some of this. another celebrating for roku and analysts. dramatically more competition emerging, which will likely drive that that drive the cost of over-the-top video streaming devices to zero. down more than 30% from a recent record close. countries like comcast have massive leverage that will make roku's growth more difficult. google's price target was raised to $1400 on cloud valuation. analysts say his data shows google's cloud business is gaining traction. micron gets a target price boost to $65 per share in jp morgan. jp morgan see strong trends for gaming products related to pcs and smartphones. coming out, it is the ultimate test for apple on the hardware side.

will a longer camera and lasting battery be enough? this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ taylor: this is "bloomberg technology." apple's latest iphone models hit the stores friday. this will be a test of it that your cameras and longer battery life will be enough to lure buyers and head of a much bigger redesign next year. long lines snaked around apple's flagship store in manhattan as

people waited to get into the space, which has also been under innovation for two years and emerged friday bigger and brighter. to discuss this, i'm joined by a wedbush analyst and bloomberg's max chafkin. max, are cameras and longer batteries enough to buy a phone for $1000 that doesn't even have 5g? max: a couple things -- they did lower the prices of the lower and found by $50, so that makes a difference, and you know, you have people who are sitting on iphones that are getting kind of old. you know, people are looking to upgrade, and you know, the last thing is we have had this conversation around apple's new products for years. it feels like the same kind of question gets raised year after year. are they doing enough? is there enough innovation? almost since tim cook took over, and what we are seeing is consumers really like this product. at some point, prism of the, that will kind of dry up, but it does not appear to have happened just yet. taylor: i love your on the ground analysis of that 5th avenue store. what is your analysis show you about demand? quickset someone who has been going there since the iphone came out, lines are 70% bigger

than a year ago, based on our analysis. i think the enthusiasm you are seeing -- partially, it is a three-camera, three-lynn's technology, but it comes down -- 300 million iphones are in a mass of great opportunity. of a 900 million install base. that is why i continue to believe based on preorder, based on everything we are seeing in stores, this is something that will continue to surprise the street, and i think this is fuel in the engine for the bulls. taylor: late friday afternoon, a headline cross the bloomberg terminal that that apple was granted tariff exclusion on some mac pro parts. how much of this does or does not go into your model when you evaluate apple? >> the initial terror, the one that already kicked in, that was

a 1% or 2% hit to cost, so i think it is something where we continue to view it as a rounding error, but i think it shows that is the drum roll goes into december 15, i continue to believe the bark is worse than the bite when it comes to tariffs. right now, they're the poster child for the u.s.-china trade battle. i think this is something that is contained, but yet, it is a 25 -- it is a third-our overhang on the stock. this is good news, but right now it comes down to core demand. you look at it, iphone demand definitely trending ahead of expectation. i think many bears are scratching their heads as they passed the fifth avenue store. taylor: i want to switch over to huawei. earlier this week, they came out with new phones. it has 5g, but because of

tariffs, it does not have that updated software. any indication on it, that's enough. max: i think know, it's not enough. we have seen basically company after company tried to roll their own operating system. samsung has tried it. microsoft has tried it and right now, there are basically two landforms that consumers seem to want to be on, which are apple and google android operating system. i do think that hallway -- huawei doing this shows they are not lying down. it continues to show that it will not be bullied or hurt by the trump administration. that probably helps china's overall negotiating position and huawei's overall fortune, but i do not think this will be a huge hit. part of the reason i say that is we do not even know exact it

where they will sell it. it's kind of a tell when they do not say exactly which countries it will be and that they do not believe this will be a huge hit. taylor: does the demand in china offset the u.s. ban? >> that continues to be the big question. what you are starting to see is if there is a pro-huawei buying going on. i think that is de minimis in terms of what we have seen, but when you talk about some of the offensive moves in terms of what they are doing, i think it shows that their back is against the wall and they are going to try to look for ways to monetize it, but in terms of this initiative, i'm more confident than the new york jets offense in them being successful. taylor: i want to get your thoughts on the recent ipo market. larry ellison came out and called wework "almost worthless." your thoughts? >> it's hard to rationalize a

business -- this is really the investor pushback -- for every dollar of revenue, you lose $.50. i think it comes down to the business model where you saw the pushback in the street. it is a black eye for them. it really comes down to they become the poster child for investors waving the white flag in terms of what they will and will not like in terms of the ipo market. you have seen strength in xoom and beyond meat and many others, but the business model continues to be the issue for investors. taylor: push the story forward for me. what is the biggest headwind in the coming months -- government issues or financials? max: it's funny that people have been talking about these governance issues for a long time, but there's nothing like an imminent ipo to kind of focus everybody and get everyone to pay attention. i've been surprise. they have made a few changes and do seem to be taking this

seriously. you are seeing this conversation about doing some sort of private funding round or something in the interim and accepting a lower valuation. i think it is a bigger problem for softbank, frankly, that it is for wework. that's obviously not great for their employees or adam newman, the ceo, but the real problem here is for softbank, which is trying to raise its additional fund next to his track record of making private company investments, and wework is a bad look. they were saying it was with $47 billion, and now people are talking about $12 billion on the low end, so that's quite a comedown. taylor: i'm demand we go toe to toe on this in these conversations every friday. thank you for joining me. the role of technology is always changing in the world of trading

and humans are fighting to stay relevant and not lose their job to a computer. goldman sachs' securities global head spoke exclusively with bloomberg on how important coding is in the world today. >> it's like writing an english sentence. it is an important skill, and at the same time, most of us are not professional authors or novelists or journalists, right? writing an english sentence is important. i would say the same thing about coding. understanding the algorithmic way of approaching problems is really important for everybody to get. actually writing code all day is something that probably relatively few people will do. >> i know one of the things you're doing is teaching a class at stanford on how software eight finance. >> is a working title. >> what are you teaching your students? what is your theme? >> if i look back at my 25-your adventure, 26-here adventure on

wall street, the short description of it is making money, capital, and risk programmable. the way we program them is by giving them an api, so i'm one of those people who sees the future architecture of the financial system as being built around api's. which api's are you producing and consuming? that is an unstoppable trend. >> you said money being programmable. are you in crypto? >> crypto is certainly the place where we all go. digital assets, and it is a kind of programmable money, but actually completely away from crypto, there's a number of companies that have been working on making money programmable. one of the extremely successful silicon valley companies, striped, this is what they do. they published a bunch of api's.

they did not even need much marketing or sales force. the developers just saw these api's and said, "i can get all my payments to happen just by calling these api's." we've been doing the same thing at goldman sachs. assets, liabilities, capital, risks more generally. >> we talked about payments going electronic and trading going electronic. we use this example the time about goldman. what do you think the role of a human is on a trading desk these days? >> there are certainly many kinds of manual activities that computers are just better at. so if you are making markets and a collection of single stocks, computers are just really good at seeing across the universe of single stocks. at the same time, there are always things that human beings do that computers do not. i don't see that actually really ever-changing. what is happening and what may be accelerating is if you were

insisting on doing the same activities and doing your job in the same way you used to do it, that is not a stable career strategy. it needs to constantly be evolving. people with world-class risk judgments, people with world-class relationship skills who deeply understand the challenges of our clients, those people are only becoming more valuable. taylor: that was goldman sachs securities global head marty chavez. coming up, operating in the shadows. think hacking is always illegal? we will meet one hacker who is paid to expose weaknesses legally. this is bloomberg. ♪

♪ taylor: time for the final installment of the documentary series where we look at the careers of the future. this week, bloomberg is digging deep into the life of a professional hacker. >> this is a classic nissan skyline. it might look like just another car, but owning one of these makes you an instant star among car enthusiasts. this guy is so rich he owns two of them. he affords these luxuries not by whiling away in a 9-to-5 job like most of us but by breaking into websites and getting paid for it. >> my name is tommy devos, and i'm a hacker.

>> the businesses, hacks are headquartered in cities like new york and san francisco -- the businesses tommy hacks. but tommy works out of suburban virginia. all the hacking he does is legitimate. companies like verizon and general motors pay him to look for security holes in their systems so they can fix them before the bad guys get in. >> when you find one of the ones you know is going to be, like, a 5000 dollars or 10,000 dollar payout, you can feel your heart racing faster. it's just like doing drugs. i don't want to go to into detail on it, but you get that same sort of rush. >> for some time now, tech companies have employed legitimate hackers to test their systems. but over the last decade or so, bounty hunting has become much

more organized thanks to the emergence of websites that match freelance hackers with businesses. the prize money has gotten big enough to make this an actual career. >> was the most money you have made on a bug? >> a single report is $20,000. >> what about in a single day? >> a single day, 160 thousand dollars in october of last year, and i think that only took three or four hours worth of actually working. >> if you were to average it out, how many hours a week would you say you work? >> five to 10? [laughter] how much money have you earned over the last year? >> this year? $636,000. >> what do you think is the thing that makes you so good at it? >> just a fact that i have been doing it for so long. >> i thought tommy was going to

be something like a lawyer or doctor. tommy was very, very smart, and he was so much ahead of everybody else in the class. >> in our classes, you could play on the computers when you finish all your work. i finished my work in 10 minutes and will just go play on the computer. >> it did not take long for tommy to fall in love with the internet. one day, he stumbled into a chat room where people talked about their illegal hacks. they taught him new tricks and he started hacking for fun. the first time he got caught was when he was in high school. he was expelled, spent a few weeks in juvenile detention, and was ordered to stay away from computers. but he did not listen. >> we got into nasa computers, the u.s. courts, department of energy. anybody that had huge budgets that should have had secure systems but didn't.

>> and he was caught once again, but this time as an adult. >> the judge told me if i get arrested for computers again and come to his court, he was going to give me life in prison. >> for most people, bug bounty hunting is still more of a side gig and their primary course of income -- primary source of income pierre-hugues get paid only when you are the first to report a bug, and even those pails not amount to much. on a platform called hacker one, the vast majority have earned less than $10,000 over time, but if you are really good, you can make a lot more. out of hacker one's 5000 contributors, tommy is one of just six people to earn more than $1 million. as more and more of the world moves online, cyberattacks will only grow in frequency and intensification and wreak havoc on our lives. that's when we will need a lot

more of the good kind of hackers testing our systems to make sure we are safe, but tommy will not pretend his motivations are all that noble. >> the fact that we are securing the internet -- it is a nice side effect, but i do it for the money. taylor: that was the last of our "next jobs" series. still ahead, more of our exclusive interview with ibm's ceo, what she learned from running the over 100-year-old company. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: technology companies face the constant threat of change. either keep up or get left behind. it is a lesson ibm's ceo takes to heart, running a tech company that is over 100 years old. she recently explained how lessons learned over decades at ibm are key to driving the company forward. she talked to bloomberg's caroline hyde. >> i do think of myself as a steward and this is a 108-year-old company, and i have been blessed to learn from many of the people that came before me, so i don't answer that question lightly, and the company has had to be reinvented many times. it is something many companies have yet to face. it's one thing to put out new products, but it is something else when the competitive landscape attacks your core business models and you have to develop a new one. core business models are the more difficult thing to have to come to build a new one.

and so i could just now start to reflect on a lot of this. it's funny, when people say what have you learned, and i say you keep in mind what does not change. to me, what does not change is the purpose of the company. ibm's purpose is always to be essential to the world in some way. that is really to me my first lesson -- be clear of what the purpose is because that is the core around what people do. the second thing, though, is do not protect your past. in my time today, 50 percent of ibm's $80 billion is new products and services within the last four or five years. 50%. we have had to divest of 10 billion dollars of commoditizing businesses because if you don't,

you don't have the fuel to invest in the new. we have done 60 acquisitions. the cloud is $20 billion. ibm today -- some people will ask me -- for i will ask what percentage of ipo do you think is hardware. you can imagine the range i get. today, 9%. we are clouds, solutions, services software, but that's 90% of what ibm does. that idea of don't protect your past -- because it has to enable you to move those things. the third thing may be a surprise to you. when people say we will have a talk about the portfolio. like i say, don't protect your past so you can build a new

portfolio and new business model, but the third thing i learned and i learned the hard way -- if the company is going to change, you have got to change how work is done in the company. i would say one of my biggest -- you could call it a mistake and a learning. i could see the world changing so quickly. our clients can see this around them, new competitors, things happening faster, start ups everywhere, and i would say to the team, go faster, go faster. you know what i did? i succeeded in exhausting them. i realized that unless leadership does something to change how work is done, they cannot really work faster. you have to put in -- and it's not like you are telling people a new process. this applies to every industry. this, to me, grants my largest lesson and gift to my colleagues or others. i say you have got to start with -- in this consumer world, everything you touch is so easy. the world expects it in everything, even if you do something complex. that meant for us design thinking. we hired 20,000 designers because if you are in engineering culture in particular, you build something that can handle all situations,

but that is complex. have to start with what does the end user like, and build from their end. that is design thinking. then comes agile. if you don't do agile properly, you build a mess fast. instead, you learn to get this right and then add more. we now have 2000 people working in agile. the next thing was co-location. then mutuals, then new real estate. then new ways to motivate people. not an appraisal system -- we abolished all that. that then freed people to work in a new way and understand. that, to me, was the greatest learning of the transformation. taylor: that was part of our exclusive interview with ibm's chairman and ceo. you can see the full conversation online. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology," which is livestreaming on twitter. check us out at technology and

be sure to follow our global breaking news network at tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪ devices are like doorways

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>> the following is a paid program. the opinions and views expressed do not reflect those of bloomberg lp, its affiliates, or its employees. announcer: this program is a paid presentation for omegaxl, and is brought to you by great healthworks. ♪ larry: welcome. i'm larry king, and i'm here today to report on a significant health-related investigation that has been taking place for