♪ taylor: i'm taylor riggs. this is "the best of bloomberg technology." coming up, high-level negotiations between washington and beijing begin again this week. we dig into the issues of intellectual property and u.s. companies that do business with china. plus, zuckerberg to testify. the facebook ceo will appear before lawmakers this week on the social network's

controversial cryptocurrency. we have details. and whistleblower speaks. christopher wylie from the cambridge analytica scandal joins me. high-level trade talks picked up this week in washington after tapering off in july with no clear breakthroughs. china's vice premier was greeted by treasury secretary steven mnuchin and trade representative robert lighthizer before talks resumed thursday. the stakes were extremely high as president donald trump threatened to raise tariffs on $215 billion worth of chinese goods on october 15 if there was no progress. the technology sector paying close attention to those sessions as intellectual

property is playing a prominent role in the negotiations. i spoke to someone from a firm who helps u.s. firms protect intellectual property. eric: a fairly large company in china, just saw $100 million in revenue that files and protects intellectual property for clients that have previously mostly been in china and is now expanding into the u.s. that's what we are doing here based out of boston. taylor: what kind of ip theft language do you need to see to get a deal? eric: regardless of the status of the trade talks, the importance of securing ip protection for u.s. companies that are operating in china should not get lost anywhere. u.s. companies should not be missing out on that opportunity

if there going to work in the chinese market. many things are manufactured in china and they are in that market already. taylor: who is stealing whose ip? eric: good question. there's a fair amount of confusion when we talk about ip theft. it really needs to be defined a bit better. we hear that routinely and the question is, what are we talking about specifically? we don't hear a lot of specific examples that are at all recent. i think most people think of ip theft as counterfeit goods and that is a very real problem that exists in china and it is a problem for any manufacturer outside of china. where we tend to be thinking about ip is in the patent world, where you are disclosing, when

you get a patent, getting the protection not only in the u.s. but also in china, or china is fairly open to protecting their markets for anyone operating inside china, by filing and protecting it with patents. taylor: do you trust the protections in beijing given the relationship between the u.s. and china not being the best right now? eric: if we just abstract ourselves from the battle and put that aside for a moment, when you get a patent in the united states, you are telling the world how to practice your invention in exchange for the rights to do that. you have the right to exclude others, but only in the united states and you have made your invention public and anyone from anywhere in the world can look at the u.s., look at your patent, see how to practice it and go ahead and do it. if you're not protecting it in the country were someone is doing it, you don't have any

protection. it is largely a situation where you want to file for protection in china if you're going to be filing for protection at all. it is almost crazy not to be doing that if you're going to be operating anywhere in the world besides the united states. taylor: that was eric giler. as for companies affected by the ongoing trade war, one company manufactures a significant portion of its product in china. it added to his lineup of tracking devices that helps customers keep track of keys and other things viewed the company may be considering future manufacturing hubs outside of china. >> because we manufacture products and do a lot of that in china, the trade wars and

policies there are impacting us. we are subject to tariffs, they went in effect on september 1. we support the policy, but one of the challenging things for companies like ours is we did not have a lot of notice that tariffs were going into place. i think we had four weeks notice. while we support the policy when you think about building product at the holiday, we didn't have a chance to react. taylor: there needs to be a less tacit he of the supply chain, you need to have two quarters. what is your legroom? >> it does take time to shift a supply chain. if you think of a businesslike tile, we started in the u.s. and now we are global. we are selling in well over 40 countries, our community has expanded across the world. when you have complexity like that, 40,000 retail stores, growing like crazy in japan, last quarter we sell 106%

growth. you need a supply chain that meets the needs of retail customers, distribution customers, and we have a big direct business as well, so selling to the direct customers. there is a lot of complexity. making moves takes time. taylor: have you started moving manufacturing in those places? cj: we are basically viewing this as an opportunity. +as i said, we support the policy, so now we are taking a chance to reshape our supply chain in a way that serves our customers best. both direct customers and retail customers. taylor: you are talking about a new hardware lunch which is great, but there is a software component as well. you were here a year ago and you said sometimes you don't need the hardware because the software is bluetooth enabled and can connect to things like google home and amazon's alexa. how is that interaction between

hardware and software? cj: a few things that are not super well-known about tile, one is we have a community platform. it's basically the largest lost and found network in the world and if you leave your tiled item, it gets found by the community. we have an apt mesh network of users helping you locate your things. the second thing is our big focus is around embedding the tile capability into third-party projects. we have announced about six or seven different audio headset partners and we have launched products with companies like bose and skullcandy. we are looking at big verticals like laptops and cameras and wearables. anything with a bluetooth device, and there are 30 billion of those shipping in the next five years, and they can be a tile with a software update. taylor: how do you respond to some reports that apple could be coming out with a competitor product? do you see them as a colleague or competitor and what do you do

if that's the case? cj: apple has been a great partner for tile. the way we think about the rumors around the competitive product is that it is really validation. we have been building this category for six years and it basically illustrates this is a real pain point. of the devices shipping with bluetooth, only about 4% are apple devices. it's a big opportunity for the rest of the market. taylor: that was the tile ceo. protests in hong kong ticked off again this week following months of demonstrations demanding universal suffrage and the right to choose hong kong's leadership. the level of violence has grown in recent weeks and police have responded with tear gas and batons. apple joined other foreign companies struggling to navigate the pro-democracy movement. apple pulled a popular app from

the app store that shows police activity in hong kong and was said to be used by protesters for demonstrations. selina wang filled us in from beijing. selina: this allows users to see were protests and police activity is happening. apple is reversing course again after saying it spoke to local authorities that said it was threatening public and police safety. the app creators have said there is no evidence of this and critics have scorched the company for saying it is basically capitulating to china's demands at the expense of free speech, but to be clear, this is in the first time apple has made a move like this. a few years ago, he removed vpn apps on the app store in china and it removed a taiwan flag emoji app. greater china is apple's largest market after the u.s. so there is a lot at stake for the company. it underscores the increasing challenges when it comes to

balancing political risks at home and abroad for international companies operating in china. taylor: within that balance you talk about, was this really harming police or is it seen as caving to beijing? selina: we did hear from me hong kong legislator say he was deeply disappointed in this decision and that in his view, this is hurting individual, innocent passersby who would use the app to avoid violence. there is no evidence of the app being used to threaten public safety, but apple says it did in investigation saying it was used to potentially target individual police and individuals in areas where police are not around. i think the broader significance of this also points to what we have seen happened other companies caught in the fray, not just apple. vans, starbucks, zara, blizzard having toe a delicate line on the hong kong protests. i think this is a significant example. a single tweet has threatened

the entire business of a company that in china, it has been decades building its business there. with a single tweet seeming to be sympathetic to the protest, you have the state broadcaster refusing to broadcast their games, all distancing themselves and cutting ties to the company. we have seen beijing take a very hard line, zero-tolerance policy approach when it comes to companies seeming to meddle in what they say are internal affairs. taylor: that was bloomberg's selina wang from beijing. coming up, mark zuckerberg summoned back to washington for another out of hearings on the

libra cryptocurrency this month. we will have details. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. you can listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s. on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: mark zuckerberg will get a firsthand look at the growing opposition to facebook's plan to create a cryptocurrency. we learned this week the social network ceo will testify before the house financial services committee october 23. the hearing will examine facebook's impact on the financial services and housing industries. for more, i spoke with kurt wagner. kurt: anytime the ceo testifies it is a big deal, but mark zuckerberg is a huge deal. i was there when he last testified and it was a total zoo. everyone wants to see mark and ask him questions and i imagine this will be the same. i know they had been trying to get sheryl sandberg, they were talking to her, we wrote about that a couple of weeks ago and it looks like they got someone

even better in theory, her boss. taylor: what do we know about the content about the hearing? kurt: we know the committee focuses on financial services, so libra, the cryptocurrency facebook is spearheading, will probably be a large portion of it. they also do housing stuff. facebook has been accused of issues around its advertising business where people are discriminating or being discriminated against, i'm sorry, for housing related issues. i imagine that will come up as well the thing about these hearings i have learned, once you get executives in front of these committee, pretty much everything goes. mark zuckerberg in particular being there, i imagine we will hear questions that spanned the gamut. taylor: i think i've asked you this before and i continue to be perplexed, does facebook realize the amount of opposition would be coming their way about cryptocurrency? kurt: it's hard to imagine they would have foreseen this level of pushback. if they had, i think they would've done more work before announcing the currency.

that being said, it is a tough chicken and egg situation. if they darted having these conversations with politicians, it would have leaked, people would say facebook doesn't have a plan. so they took the other approach and announce the plan and now they are having conversations and everyone is freaking out. i feel like it was lose-lose for them, but at the same time, did they anticipate mark zuckerberg would be testifying before congress four months later? i have a hard time thinking that was the case. taylor: facebook skeptics now have derivatives to bet on whether libra will meet its target launch date. a crypto futures exchange is offering derivatives that pay out based on the likelihood libra will be operational by the end of 2020. the coinflex ceo spoke to bloomberg on monday. mark: we are excited about this

futures contract because it gets the market to price the odds of the event occurring. it is physically delivered libra, and in nondelivery by facebook, it settles at zero and gives the market a way to say it is likely, it is unlikely, respond to news events, and give clarity to facebook and libra partners. >> why so bearish and pessimistic? why only a 30% chance of hitting the december 2020 date, already later than they planned? mark: were going to let the market decide this one. that is the opening price, but from thereafter, it's just determined by anyone who wants to make a market. >> is this garnering a lot of attention for you? are you going to get high-volume when these contracts open? mark: we don't actually expect very high volumes from these contracts.

we do, however, expect them to be something people are fascinated by trading, something that ends up trading a lot in terms of the number of users. ultimately it brings interest in the exchange and provides a signal to the market of where libra actually will end up being. >> we have a pretty active betting market in this country. why is it better to use your product than walk into a betting office and say i would like to put a bet on this particular outcome for this libra product? they specialize in making markets for off-the-wall stuff. why do you need this product? mark: coinflex is a physically delivered futures exchange. our main products are futures on bitcoin physically delivered. if you want a physically delivered libra at the time of expiry, this is the place for you. if you want to make a sports bet or something like that, if libra gets traded on those platforms,

that is a great place to do that, but we are trying to offer futures on libra and that is basically what people come to us for. taylor: that was coinflex ceo mark lamb. coming up we hear from a former chairman and ceo of nasdaq. later, whistleblower is the word in washington. but before then, there was cambridge analytica. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: when bob greisel took the reins of nasdaq in 2003, he knew he had his work cut out for

him, as did the board. he got off to a running start and made key personnel changes, trimmed costs, and landed big deals. in the process, he made nasdaq into a very different institution. thursday, he spoke to david westin about his new book, "market mover." bob: the most important move we made was to buy inet, we got the best technology on the street. a lot of the high-frequency firms use some version of inet today. we gained market share. when i think about the 47 acquisitions we did, the only one we had to do independent the price was inet, we were institutional risk. we were losing market share and money every day and we didn't have any technology on the shelf that had proven great faith. the rest of the acquisitions were optional and we were using that to build upon further strength.

david: then 2008 happened. stress on everybody, including you to clear the trades coming through. but there were reforms afterward and in your book, you said that jamie dimon called you up and not a friendly way. bob: there were some four letter words there, but i would say our systems worked well through the great credit crisis. we were hitting volumes we only saw in the lab, that was nerve-racking. we bent but did not break. there was a professional disagreement in terms of how things would play out. one thing i have to say with jamie dimon, we lived through difficult times with facebook, and to his credit, he gave me a call and said come on bob, you will get through it and it will work out. david: the facebook problem was pretty well known and treated directly in the book. bob: it is a really big loop.

i came there and we had a certain culture. we changed it, and we may be, engineers are the kings of the ship. it was not balance. i created a culture where the engineers could over develop systems without any check from the people running the businesses. we had to evolve, we learn from it and became a more balanced organization and a better organization. david: right now, there is a big dispute, discussion going on about ipo's, which are terribly important to nasdaq, as well as direct listing. nasdaq had both expenses, didn't you start with a direct listing before you got there? bob: we did it when i was there. david: what are the pluses and minuses of direct listing versus ipo? bob: direct listing will have a niche. you have zero need for capital and a brand in the investment community, direct listing comes into the frame and you have to

make a decision. the advantage is you don't have to get involved in what is the right price. if i go public and the prices up 40% or down 40%, i am the ceo and i don't really want to be in that game of trying to decide how to play that. i would rather get the right price. if you list first and then raise capital a year later, the stock is trading. that is an alternative for some but not too many. taylor: that was the former nasdaq ceo. coming up, cambridge analytica whistleblower christopher wylie has a new book out. we will talk about the hacking threat as the 2020 presidential election closes in. and "bloomberg technology" is on twitter. check us out at @technology and follow our global breaking news

network at tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪ from the couldn't be prouders

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♪ welcome back to "the best of bloomberg technology." facebook users can sue the company over the cambridge analytica scandal. the verdict does not line up with other verdicts. sharede arguing facebook third-party data without their permission. werey 30 million accounts involved. who better to talk about cambridge analytica than the man who blew the whistle on the company, the author of a new

book. he joined us wednesday from new york along with max chafkin. mely: writing a book helped reflect on everything that happened, and talk about my journey from getting recruited at a military contractor, to working on modeling and data work to identify people who are more prone to paranoid ideation and extremism with the idea of trying to mitigate that problem, with having that work completely inverted after steve bannon acquired our company, to affect do the same thing in america, targeting people who are more prone to radicalization, but for the alt-right. christopher: coming -- max: coming forward the way you did, blowing the whistle on facebook, and incredibly powerful media company, maybe the most powerful

in history, what was that like? did you get pushback from facebook, any threats? as you have moved to publish the book, have you heard from them? max: girl, where do i -- christopher: girl, where do i begin? before the story i emerged, i was working with law enforcement before the story broke. when facebook found out that this story was emerging, they know about cambridge analytica well before any of this was published. the first thing they do is threaten the journalists of "guardian" face perry is liable accusation -- with a spurious, libel up look -- accusation. they banned me from facebook and instagram. day inhat point, working and day out with regulatory

authorities in the e.u., u.k., united states, one thing i thought was the power that this company has to hide, to obfuscate their work. one of the things i came to understand is that when you go and blow the whistle, you see something that is wrong and you report that to an authority. some guy there will be somewhere in a federal agency building who knows what to do, and i realized there is not that guy. that guy does not exist. i have talked to government, regulators, parliament. people do not know how to handle this problem. the real concern as we have a completely unregulated digital landscape that companies like facebook take advantage of, and even though cambridge analytica has dissolved, the capabilities are still there.

one reason i wrote the book was to serve as a warning because even if this company no longer exists, what happens if china or north korea become the next cambridge analytica? there are no rules. we are entrusting our democratic process to a private company and i question whether that is a good idea. are in you mentioned you conversation with lawmakers and regulators and i wonder if you think they are doing a good enough job handling the problem. christopher: one of the things going to congress i realized was the power of lobbyists, particularly to define narratives. one of the first questions i would get at congress is, can the law ever keep up with technology? say, we regulate nuclear power plants and airplanes and medicine safety standards. there is all kinds of

technologies we regulate in the name of consumer safety. just because something uses software and is on the internet does not mean we cannot create rules to require companies to consider whether the products they are putting out will be safe for people to use. the united states is the only oecd governing -- company -- country does not have a governing law. language inat the the way that a lot of silicon valley companies talk about aemselves, they say we are service, opt in, terms and conditions, but when you look at the types of people who work at the company, they are called an engineer, architect. they build ecosystems. these are things people are going into, and when you look at how we regulate physical architecture or engineering, where if you build a building

without fire exits and said, people opted into my building, they walked in and there was a book of terms and conditions and if it burns down, that was their choice. people would not stand for that. people,he things i hope particularly lawmakers if they read the book, one of the takeaways is we need to understand what is social media? what are these platforms? max: we have 2020 elections coming up. the data that was at issue with cambridge analytica, is that data still around? it could come into play again four years later? how worried should we be about foreign interference going forward? christopher: i don't know. you know, i don't know what happens with that information.

i don't know what happened with that data. the same people working at cambridge analytica now work on the trump campaign. this company had regular contact with russian officials. the ceo shared vodka with the russian ambassador. have regular meetings with the russian ambassador and then going in meeting with the trump campaign. the people exist, the capabilities exist. whether or not the data still exists, i don't know. facebook has presumably tried to gain taint the problem -- contain the problem. andeed to take a step back go, should there some be -- should there be a consumer safety watchdog when it comes to digital platforms? when no one is watching, these are the things that can happen. we had people come forward and talk to the media, but what

about when that does not happen? taylor: that was whistleblower christopher wylie and max chafkin. surgedup, roku stock after an analyst predicted the company will triple its user base by 2022. wewill hear with that -- will hear from that analyst. we will hear from the delivery hero ceo. the company as a major player in europe. this is bloomberg. ♪

best day in had its two months on wednesday after macquarrie up dated just upgraded the stock. decline in shares of the video streaming classroom -- platform.

i spoke with tim nolan of macquarrie. tim: the stock had come down 175 to 100. it is partly the international expansion that we talk about. roku going from zero to some large number internationally, and we think they can get to their size internationally that they are in the u.s. now, in about three years. connected tv advertising which is the growth story, is growing strongly. roku built itself a terrific position to keep growing. taylor: let me parse down a few points you hit on, one from the stock falling from 170 to 99 in a matter of three weeks. how much of this was purely from a multiple standpoint it looked cheap? tim: you could certainly argue

it got quite expensive. a number of software related stocks traded down quite heavily rotationso sector going on at the time as much as anything. to 170 inwent from 55 the space of three to four to five months. any time you get that quick a move, it is not surprising for to come back and take a breath. there was increased use of competition. we heard about amazon fire tv and comcast. , thecompetition coming wrong combination of factors for the stock. earlieryou mentioned about international expansion being the key as a catalyst for the stock going forward. what kind of numbers do you need to see? tim: we don't know anything about the international expansion or the strategy.

we know one or two bits and pieces about markets and devices, but we do not know the rollout schedule. we have tried to lay out a reasonable assumption based on connected tv penetration rates into homes where roku can get, so that is where we end up getting to about 35 million or so households within three years time. another way to look at it is on the advertising side, and this is more important. if you look at connected tv advertising growth, it is growing double or triple the rate now from a year ago. if you put a more modest assumption of growth on that, you get pretty similar numbers for roku's growth in terms of revenue over the next three years. taylor: that was tim nolan of macquarrie. when it comes to streaming conduct -- content, randy

.uckerberg is no stranger he is the founder of zuckerberg media. he sat down with francine lacqua to discuss the evolving role for females in the industry. randy: 100 million hours of video gets uploaded to youtube and that is one channel in one day. every day there is over a billion posts on facebook. who is listening to your content if everyone else is making their own? francine: will it go down or be oversaturated? i think there will be a layer of generation like in museums -- curation like in museums. people are looking for experts to tell them what to watch. the pendulum is almost shifting

back again to the bigger need for expert voices in news and other areas, because people are bombarded by so much they want to be guided a little like you would curate a collection at a museum. i also think people want more high quality again, so it is wasresting because one i first starting on social media, it was how many eyeballs you could get on things, and the metrics are shifting back to engagement and depth. francine: well the next three years be critical on who survives and who doesn't? randi: absolutely, and companies will need share -- need to make sure they are playing in all the new spaces. that is why we are talking about audio. that is one of the only spaces where they are more people listening to podcasts than podcasts that are regularly updated.

there was a brief window around blogging 20 years ago. that window is gone. the world does not need a new blog, but podcasting and audio is in that beautiful window. the media companies that are nimble enough to see those opportunities will survive. francine: as we look at the 2020 presidential election, how should media companies look at this differently? randi: it is so fragmented. there are so many candidates, so many people that have passions around different issues in different topics. gone are the days when you had a few sources that where they go to places to turn for an election. media companies have to think of themselves as 20 or 30 tiny little media companies and arm their employees to be individual media companies to be reaching the most people.

creative andtingly stressful time to be working inside a media company. taylor: that was zuckerberg media founder and ceo randi zuckerberg. coming up, the food delivery business is consolidating. takeaways deal with delivery hero. we will hear more about the sector and growth projections from the ceo of delivery hero, next.

taylor: food delivery remains a tough market. front runners uber eats and unprofitableain and giants like takeaway.com and just eat are preparing to merging -- merge. -- delivery hero is seeing growth across new markets in

asia and the americas. we spoke with the ceo. in everyarket shares region against every competitor globally, we are on path to be the largest food platform by the end of the year. in germany, we did less than 500,000 orders in a country like taiwan and now wei du 7.2 million orders. 7.2 million orders. the investments are paying off. caroline: you see more of a future in emerging markets. you mentioned germany and there have been others. will you be selling more to focus on the emerging market space? niklas: we are focused on the markets where received the highest return, the best return

on every single incremental order, and that is what we have in the middle east, asia, latin america, and some eastern european markets. we have a good footprint where we have no general interest in selling on the markets. caroline: doubling down on the markets, you are actively in trying to deliver more stuff, not just food. to be a little more, dare i say like an amazon, are you not concerned the margins are on the low side? caroline: our focus is to deliver what customers want and work backwards from there to find ways to make it happen. that is why we look at groceries and payment. an example of this would be turkey. warehouses where we can deliver in 13 minutes, that is way better than amazon can do.

we have reached a point where we can deliver things on good economics, and in this quarter overall our logistics is improving. theline: if you look into future, what percentage of your business do you see being in food delivery? niklas: i still think that food and hot food is our main vertical, and that is where we have our core. still 90% of our business. from time to time, you need something, and we want to be there for our customers. caroline: why if it is just 10% of the business? niklas: we want to make sure our best customers can stay on our platform when they need something, and having them continue to come back gives value. if they need toothpaste in the evening, you will build a strong

love for our brand. you might order food and get that delivered, but you will remember that experience. taylor: that was part of our conversation with the ceo of delivery hero. google is ramping up its food delivery footprint, partnering with the leading digital delivery platform for the restaurant industry. people can order from 300 different restaurant brands. i sat down with the ceo on monday. >> the relationship is about enabling our brands to be found by consumers when they are searching for restaurants on google. customers naturally do that today and now they will be able to find those, order directly from the google platform whether that is search or maps or the google assistant, and send that

to a point-of-sale? i cannot speak to the way google's financial model works. ours is a subscription with transaction fees on top for increased order volume. taylor: do you share profits , or whenle per click the delivery is confirmed? noah: it is coming from the context of consumers today ordering through different platforms like third-party restaurant delivery marketplaces. when they order through those, they pay between 30 per -- 20% and 30% commission. this gives restaurants the ability to directly take orders from google and we charge a flat fee per month and a fee per transaction that pales in comparison to the delivery markets. taylor: why would they want to be on your site? as thehey are using olo

digital platform. oloaurants are looking to as their partner to drive direct traffic into their restaurants around developing a direct digital relationship with those consumers, and listing their menus on popular third-party platforms to keep the restaurant ordersrol and enable all to come from outside the restaurant to the point-of-sale system inside. oloor: ra restaurants in playing the volume game? noah: this is a seismic shift happening. we are going to a place where over half of the overall sales in an $800 billion industry are taking place through consumers looking to get their food and consume at off premise. over half of that is coming through digital channels, so the

industry has not seen a shift like that and we are all about seeing our restaurants be great beneficiaries of that shift with orders coming directly from their customers and building that relationship. taylor: it is also an industry that is becoming increasingly competitive, the livery.com, uber eats, grub.com, these are all online delivery programs. noah: we are not a consumer facing brand, we are a software platform that restaurants used to build their apps and websites. the companies that you mentioned are partnering with olo and sending orders to restaurants using our rails ai that allows orders to be sent and go into the restaurant point-of-sale, keeping things simple. we are the part that restaurants select as their digital ordering

platform they are building on top of, and enabling them to keep things simple and tap into third-party sources of orders. taylor: it is also competitive when we look from google's perspective. there is other mapping services and voice programs. why did you go with google? noah: nothing about our relationship is exclusive. this is about our rails platform , getting our restaurants' menus in every third-party site where they would want them to be listed. we have done a similar deal with nate's, mostpost recently uber eats and now with google, allowing our customer to go where the food is. taylor: that does it for this edition of "the best of bloomberg technology." we bring you all the latest in tech

throughout the week, 5:00 p.m. new york, 2:00 p.m. san francisco. we are live to edit -- livestreaming on twitter, and follow our global breaking news network at tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

jonathan: from new york city for our viewers worldwide, i'm jonathan ferro. "bloomberg real yield" starts right now. ♪ jonathan: coming up, it's groundhog day. optimism making a return around the same old issues, pushing 10 year treasury yields above three-month bills for the first time since july. the fed announces it will buy billions of t-bills every month going into 2020. let's begin with the big issue. it's groundhog day for trade talks. >> this is groundhog day, groundhog week, groundhog month. >> we have seen this before. >> a ping-pong ball going back and forth. >> every few times we make some progress and roll it back. >>