>> this is the best of bloomberg technology, where we bring you all of our top interviews from this week in tech. disney plus sores. the company is said to surpass 10 million sign-ups in its first day. . goldman sachs apple cart controversy. we will hear from steve wozniak on how he got caught up in gender bias accusations against goldman. we will bring you goldman quick

response. and return of the mac. apple introduces its 16 inch macbook pro at $2400. we will rate function and design. disney was the big winner of the week, signing up 10 million customers in one day for disney plus despite some technical glitches upon launch. disney plus became available tuesday in the u.s. and canada. the media giant's original goal was 60 to 90 million subscribers in 10 years. it is posed to reach that goal sooner. put this in perspective, hbo now, cbs all access, the world wrestling network, these guys have been in business for a few years. none of them have hit 10 million. disney did it in a day. it is an incredible feat. that's why you are seeing a record high. go back to 1974.

>> all the technical glitches yesterday, we can brush those off? >> if you only knew how many people were trying to sign up, we cannot plan for this. the big question remains, they had this incredible deal with verizon that took in 19 million customers for free. disney is not saying how many people signed up were free customers, though the company is noting disney is getting paid a wholesale rate from verizon. >> we don't know where the demand is coming from, but what is driving it? is it content or pricing? >> all of the above. disney does a fantastic job of marketing. they claim this is the biggest synergy campaign ever. they have promoted it on monday night football, on abc. they had advertisements at the theme park. disney radio. it is all in effort to get the

word out. the price, seven dollars a month or in some cases free, that is hard to top. then content. marvel, pixar, star wars. they do it all. disney sit in the streaming wars? >> people have said they are basically netflix's biggest rival. the stock market reaction showed that. netflix took a fall. disney surged. that's what we are seeing. disney has become a tech stock, trading not on earnings, bone potential subscriber counts, the company has estimated as you said could be 90 million in five years. people are suggesting they could get that number a lot sooner. bloomberg's chris palmeri. --omberg netflix saw shares fall. disney is entering into the

streaming space tests consumers tolerance for an array of choices. >> i look at it pretty differently. i think about the world from the standpoint of, the legacy cable bundle where people spend, at the low-end, 40 five dollars, $50 for over-the-top cable services like hulu live or hulu thosecharter spectrum, bundles are going away. consumers are giving up on those. cord cutting is at record paces. seeing all this great content from apple tv plus, netflix, amazon, soon nbc, it is making it easier and easier to cut the cord. that frees up a tremendous amount of wallet. this is like adding fuel to a fire that has already started burning. this is going to make it that

much easier to cut the cord going forward. i think this is the industry. . watershed moment this is disney saying the cable bundle is the past. the future is a streaming. we are going to put our best assets onto streaming. whatever happens to the bundle, so be it. it's going to be tough for espn and their future. disney is clearly telling you that they know the bundle is dead or dying and they have to move forward. >> you talk about the cannibalization of traditional cable subscriptions. netflix said 10% of could be at risk with apple and disney. do you have figures on cannibalization at netflix and competitors? >> i think it is one of the more absurd comments i have heard. the reality is consumers want to stream lots of stuff. these are not replacement products. you are not choosing between netflix and disney plus.

you are saying, i don't need cable anymore. if you are not a sports fan, you are going to give up on cable service. if you want to watch the crown, disney plus does not satisfy that. if you want back episodes of friends, you need hbo max. people have had hbo for years. hbo has been more expensive than netflix. hbo has 34 million subscribers today. no one is saying, i have netflix, i don't need hbo. these things are going to coexist the way hbo and showtime have coexisted. i think about it less in terms of price to value. what does the consumer want? if you want this content, if you want stranger things, if you want the irishman, you have to have netflix. if you want the middle lori and you have tolorian, have disney plus. the loser is going to be the entertainment bundle with a lot of content that is overpriced with little flexibility.

that is where people should be looking for dollars in subscribers. >> an array of streaming services put to the consumer back in the driver's seat as to which ones will ultimately succeed and falter over time. which measures audience intelligence, had a point of view on the disney plus launch. the ceo called it an early success. >> most people in the industry are looking at it incorrectly. they are looking at it as if disney plus is a competitor for netflix. shown withalready getting the majority ownership of hulu, with the success of espn plus and now disney plus, they have a winning strategy about how to attack that market. they are not really competing with netflix. disney has done a better job of anybody at getting share of dollars when it comes to media and entertainment, from theme parks or merchandising or the

trickle releases. now with disney plus, they have even more of a direct to consumer relationship. they can leverage that to monetize all those revenue streams in a way netflix and others cannot. i heardis exactly what from rick springfield at the top of this hour. they are competing not with netflix, but grabbing cables of scription declines. would you agree they will take on more of the cable subscription declines and that there is room for 2, 3, four bank streaming services? argue the decline in cable is actually irrelevant to disney's strategy as well. in terms of disney plus, that does impact hulu with their lives service. disney's gain is far bigger than even tv. this is just another way for them to engage with consumers. it is not a standalone entity.

it is different from the mvps,gy of the other whether it is nbc with peacock or sling tv. disney has so many more avenues of revenue. they don't have to monetize the solution the same way others do in order for it to be considered a success. given they the winner they have money to spend with original programming, but also that big backlog and that library of great videos from decades ago? >> it would be hard to argue that disney is not well-positioned. i am hesitant to say winner because the game has not really started get. competing forople audience time and attention are still a quarter or two from launching. the biggest loser from all of this is absolutely netflix, which is more clear. so much of the most popular content that has driven not only

subscriptions, but loyalty of the platform, will be leaving at&t and nbcy and universal pulling content. solutions not the same three to six to 12 months from now than it has historically been. >> this is an extensive business. investors will not tolerate losses for long. when do we start seeing a prophet? profit? >> it is going to be sometime. companies that have a legacy library they can lean on may profit first. when we look at disney, we cannot look at streaming as a standalone. i would argue disney is already profiting regardless of the

stream. up, more on instagram's plan to cut down on social media pressure. our interview with the head of instagram coming up. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. you can listen on the bloomberg app and in the u.s. on sirius xm. ♪

>> welcome back to the best of bloomberg technology. there's plenty of anxiety and social media, especially for people who feel the pressure of competing with other users. instagram says it wants to reduce that feeling on the photo sharing platform. the facebook-owned company says the key to that is removing like counts on posts. it began testing that measure on some users in the u.s. this week.

bloomberg's kurt wagoner talked to the head of instagram after he announced the change at the wire 25 tech conference in san francisco. >> what we are hoping to do is depressurized a little bit and make it less of a competition. we are focused on young people. we think it -- we can make like might -- wete, it have been testing this around the world. we are going to start testing with a small percentage of people in the u.s. next week area >> the idea being if i can't see how many likes your photo gets, that might decrease my pressure around sharing my selfies? >> you will be able to see how many likes your photo gets, not other people. the idea is to reduce anxiety and comparison. >> what are you seeing in the other countries where you are already running the change in

the way people interact? >> we are seeing different things. we want to understand how it changes how people use instagram. more importantly we want to understand how it changes how people fear -- how people feel. for how youong time feel about a platform to change. that is why this has been running for so long. i assume you would not be rolling it out in other markets if you did not feel -- >> we have seen encouraging data. which is why we are rolling it out further to learn how it works in other countries. >> are there other things you are thinking about around metrics or some other way around the way people share that may change the feelings people have when they use instagram? >> when you think about well-being, i think there are

three areas of work we do. one is we try to identify issues and address them. the second is we are trying to pick an issue we can lead on. innovate.ing to tothink it is important rethink fundamentals about how instagram works. the combination of things i hope will change the way we feel about what we do in the platform, but none of it -- there is no -- a broader cultural shift. instagram's parent company facebook says it removed nearly 2 billion fake account last quarter. the social network added that in the last six months it took down

11 and a half million posts of child exploitation, including child pornography. other posts removed included terrorism content, hate speech, and drug sales. from online real estate to commercial real estate, facebook announced it had signed a lease at new york city's hudson yard. the social network signed a lease for one and a half million square feet of space as part of the companies push to expand its presence in new york. coming up, perspective from two pioneers of the tech industry. we will hear from jack ma in an exclusive interview. later, steve wozniak on goldman sachs' apple card. he was one of the first people to flag how the card issues credit limits when it comes to gender.

♪

>> jack ma spoke to bloomberg news thursday while he was in togo to meet with young leaders and entrepreneurs, and among

other things, the billionaire discussed trade issues between the u.s. and china. >> the trade war might be the u.s. and china relationship turbulence inme the next 20 years. we have to be careful. think it is so important for china and the usa, two great countries, to work together, supporting economies, keeping people prosperity, shared technologies, and for so many years, china and the u.s. have been working together. there is a problem that is natural. if there is no problem, that is not natural. we have to solve the problems. we should not create more problems. andou said you love africa

you have acted as the bridge between china and africa. what do you see as the main thing china can gain from africa and vice versa, the main thing africa can gain from china? love -- i went to africa three years ago, my first trip. i read a lot of things about africa. like i here and said, no, this is not. i'm very inspired by the young people. inspired by the culture. i decided i would come every year. i try to visit every country in 10 years. that -- howsay china can help africa or how africa can help -- can benefit from china, but i, as a global

, anden, an entrepreneur entrepreneur working in the years, i think a lot of our experience, our ideas, our know-how could enable and people.ican young meanwhile, i start to think, how can china help in a more efficient way? china putting a lot of effort in africa. when i was very young, a lot of doctors in my hometown, they have to go to africa for years to help. africa,ink china and africa can learn a lot from china, how china developed in the past 20 years in such a quick way, how we lifted poverty out of that.

think the most important thing is not to rely on china, on europe. people of this continent. if they have the vision, if they have the know-how, if they want to change, that is the main driver. do. is what i existingds of things in africa. our job is to come here and support and empower it. >> if you had to pin it down to africa canhina can lessonwhat would be one we can take from the chinese example in lifting people out of poverty?

first, people should have the real vision that through economic reform, marking reform, market economy, making people rich is the way. >> you have also stressed the power of technology to unlock growth in africa. do and whathnology are its limitations? what can it not do? enable every can individual. in the early days, technology belongs to rich people, big companies. today, a mobile phone. everybody can reach very cost-effectively, all the knowledge starts to reach the market easier. i think the difference between

i.t. and internet, the i.t. is enriched, powerful people are you big companies. -- powerful people. big companies. century nothing in the that within such a short time, billions of people start to use the internet as a technology. it is powerful. it, if younge people really want to try it, it will help you. of course. people itself.is if you don't want to change, if you don't want to create a future, nobody can help you. >> is there still a plan to list ant financial? >> someday.

we are not in a hurry. we don't have a plan for that yet in the short term. financing. first we are very profitable. i think we have a lot of things this year,do in making sure we have enough investment for the future. we know what exchanges we are looking at? aboutare not thinking where to marry yet. in ant was jack ma exclusive interview. coming up, the apple cofounder steve wozniak took to twitter when it appeared his apple card discriminated against his wife. we will hear his story as well as steps taken by the card's issuer, goldman sachs, next ♪

>> welcome back to the best of bloomberg technology. i am taylor riggs. goldman sachs was in hot water this week as accusations of gender discrimination over how the bank issued its apple card. the controversy started in entrepreneur tweeted that apple against hisinated wife despite they share -- the pair sharing joint returns and tax accounts. steve wozniak joined the chorus saying the same thing happened to him and his wife. he relayed what happened to kurt wegner on monday.

>> we don't go out and try to promote anything. i saw a post, a tweet by david about he and his wife having different limits. we encounter that months ago and found out through phone calls on the number on the card that we couldn't really get to anybody who would listen except they said maybe in three to six months. i just posted it to be like a little side feature of the article, and it became -- i did not expect all of these results. funny thing, goldman sachs has been calling us and they are doing incredible things in a very short time. card,ust released this and that's very hard to do something in that amount of time. i have been there. you got to have everything in going out ofy are the way just like applewood. they were a lot of articles saying it was alleging gender bias as the explanation. my wife thought that at first.

i did not think that. in that apple itself for example is the least biased of all the companies. we are the only big company in the united states that guarantees equal pay for equal work by gender. so that was out of the thing. it was goldman sachs. they have listened. maybe because i got involved. i don't like to be getting special privilege, but they got involved and thought about it and they will make the changes very soon that will allow you to get to a human. i do not believe looking into the algorithm is the solution. i don't believe changing is the solution. i think it is being able to get individual attention in cases the algorithm misses. >> you mentioned part of the problem was when you're trying to get someone on customer size,t for a company this it can be hard, we talking about goldman sachs or apple or a little bit of both? >> all of the big companies.

apple is very good because you got personal support, in the stores, with the employees, with the geniuses. apple does a really good job of making good support available. i decided a long time ago that having a good product is not as valuable as good support. >> obviously when you choose to weigh in on something like this, especially apple related, it's going to get a lot of attention. ewers surprised he said by -- you said you were surprised by how much it got. did you hear from apple as well? i don't think we heard from apple directly. they were contacting my wife who contacted them way back months ago and called the phone number. i guess they had her number to call. they said they're going to have their standard number by the end of the week and now they are telling us by tomorrow i guess it will election go through to support people.

the idea is to get to people. you cannot expect solutions instantly because there might be too much in, or too much demand and not enough supply for a while. but they are talking just exactly right, the way apple would something like this. we are going to support the customers heard i always believed in the customer getting respect over the company just having the power. they can be right when they're really wrong. >> you mentioned this isn't just the algorithm issue, that there might be other solutions. it is certainly -- it starts with the algorithm. do you think this is the kind of thing that is reflective of the challenge that is in the tech industry right now? >> a lot of things that thingshms cannot handle, that the dumbest human could easily look at and come up with the solutions including a lot of self-driving issues. >> what are some of the areas

that you feel like are really a problem at least in terms of starting some of these issues? >> everywhere that we have learned that we can apply computers, we call it ai, but we apply them to handle everything to avoid humans to be hired to do this job of supporting people. that is all of the big companies -- once i was getting a hundred calls a day for some door -- or that put down my phone number. i could not get to that company, there was no way to get to the company to explain the problem unless maybe i got a door -- account. i don't need another account. you just cannot get through to the cubans when -- to the humans when you need to to solve it. >> not specifically to apple, but telling some of these companies, if you're going to use ai to solve some of these problems, you're going to put new rules around that? >> i think it goes back to what

i was saying that i always favored the consumer over the want that to be respected and they will not get taken care of by the companies making decisions. the companies work for themselves. only government can step in to handle the masses, anything from road construction on. it's just not going to happen at the private company level. we will take care of the problems ourselves now. i do not buy that. taylor: that was steve wozniak. shortly after the interview goldman sachs announced a customer service line and issued the statement that they, quote, not and never will make decisions based on gender. the company announced that it would introduce the ability for household numbers to share a apple card credit line. the debate over the role of algorithms and consumer finance heated up with presidential candidates elizabeth warren blasting goldman sachs and their

response. other lawmakers said they intend to look into the ability of earlier claims. news, some apple product got a glimpse of the new macbook pro this week, the first update to the device in three years. the new laptop comes with a slightly larger screen and an improved keyboard. >> it's all about the keyboard. the thing to me is that it really should not be all about the keyboard. the reason we are talking about the keyboard is because it was read designed after there were complaints on what is known as the butterfly mechanism keyboard. if they had not moved to that design we wouldn't be talking about it right now. the good news is the new model they are shipping has a big improvement. >> was the audience here? was it mostly software

developers and video editors? >> this is their highest and laptop, and lots of people buy these things. it's the most popular other than the macbook air. there's really no limit on who will buy them but they are designed for video editors and gamers, anyone who wants to drop that much money on a computer. lots of students by these as well. >> talk to me about the price point could you just mentioned about $2400, and that goes for almost double that. is there demand at that price point? >> absolutely. these macbook pros have the same pricing scheme for about eight eight or more now. 2006,rst was launched in the powerbook was before that, so they've always been in that category. a lot of people thought this new model before its introduction would come in quite a bit higher, but apple has actually replaced it.

so this is cheaper than some expected it would actually come out to be. fit intos the macbook their overall revenue strategy and product strategy? >> it represents about 10% of apple sales, generating between 23 and 27 billion a year annually for the last seven or so years. it has been a steady seller for apple. it has brought in 10% of revenue, that's a lot when you're talking about this company. in terms of its future, apple seems dedicated to it. this was not always the case. a couple of years ago it seemed like the mac was dying on its way out from being in the product line. lots of people complained, and people noticed it was taking a long time to be updated. in the last two or three years it seems like apple specifically its marketing head early took the issue head-on and turned around. it really appears to be more

important than it has been sometime. coming up, the ultimate backup drive, how and arctic bunker is preparing software for the end of the world. that is next. education the technology companies want to provide a path to higher learning for working professionals. we will talk to a big boys behind the effort -- a big voice behind the effort. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> by now you all know about the now famous arctic idea meant to save crops. did you know that there is also one meant to save the world's open source software? we got a peek inside the apocalyptic code bunker.

we are here at the 78 degrees north latitude at the site of the future get out arctic code all. >> 6000 of the most popular open-source projects in an archive inside this mountain. >> open it. how it works, the dater -- the data is stored on this film and the information can still be read by a computer, or if need be by a human by an defying class. >> along long will this last? out for 2000ing years. >> we collected the film inside these cases and headed into the darkness. we venture further into the abyss, and let me catch you up. this company is the main place go to write open source code.

millions of people hop on get hub and create the applications that make the world to, which is why it needs to be protected from terrorists hackers and other conferencing -- unforeseen disasters. ok, it's basically a tool shed. but it is cool. into the vault. this is the arctic cold -- code alt, and we will put it here. i think 20 years ago, if you told someone that you are in the year 2020 all of human civilization will depend on open so's -- open source code written for free and put into almost every product in the world, i think people would say that is crazy.

that will never happen. software is written by big companies and yet here we are. >> how much of this is just making sure we can restore our way of life? >> i think you can bet humans will be diving for -- driving for a long time. another way is to think about is just like a time capsule, where the whole world is starting to run on software, and that software is as a result of open source. ashley joint meet wednesday with mort on his arctic experience. of northwayay north about as close as you can get to the north pole, so it is remote. there is a treaty in place in times of war that it remains top of, and even on that, you are down in this cave so it is protected from whatever existential that you can think

of. it is just this idea putting it in the middle of nowhere. >> what are they preparing for, and chocolate the scenario? >> that's part of it. open source code runs about everything these days, so it's good to have a backup but it was sort of marking this point in time, this idea that humans has gotten together to do this great collective effort, so part of it is just an archive like he would do for a library. >> what are they hoping to use it for? are they hoping to thousand years from now they will look back and be able to use we have done today? >> you could. if there was something horrible that happened, you don't actually need a computer to read it. you can just set there with a magnifying glass or analog technology and read it. a lot of it is just the symbolism of this moment in time when we did this thing. >> this fundamental idea of open

hub championed this idea. microsoft.wned by where is that tension in your story? bought it last year for over a billion dollars so a lot of the people who were hard-core open sorcerers, they thought this was like the worst thing that could happen or the most surprising. but they have changed a lot, they operate with all kinds of things. they have embraced open-source in a cynical manner, this gives them access to all of the best and brightest developers, which is like an audience they did not tap before. anotherur article writer came out and said they would consider himself successful if they created sort

of a middle-class when it comes to this, what did he mean by that? >> if you had a big open-source project, you would probably get paid by google or intel one of the companies that cares about it and you can do fine. but there is this whole group of coders who are making software that we all depend on and we just don't know about it. there's no real system in place to get them paid very well by companies or by like personal patrons. hub is trying to move to this model to support the developer and let them do this full time. >> what is the feeling about open-source? you talk about everyone participating and yet you have big tech companies like google and facebook that a no use all of that to track us. it really isn't free. what is that tension? my story,got into in there's this great irony that open-source software started out as this rebellion against

microsoft, about freedom of intellectual property put it just so happens that whether it is google or amazon, their entire infrastructure runs on it and it has been flipped on its head to monitor people. it's kind of the underside of the story. up, we have a former american express ceo discussing his efforts to link with higher education programs with employers. his position on the board of the startup guild education, that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪

>> this industry appears to have given birth to its newest

unicorn one that wants to connect to educational programs with the understanding that higher education can lead to economic mobility. denver-baseda female lead unicorn crash off an infusion of cash taken into the unicorn said his part on thursday i spoke with its ceo and a member of its board of , who also happens to be the former ceo of american express. guild we partner with leading employees -- employers to connect education for their employees with the corporate strategy. we have done it by building a technology platform that enables companies to offer education to their employees and in partnership with the leading universities around the country to offer programs to the employees. for employersn

and employees. taylor: ken, you are leading and helping this funding round. what did you like at guild you couldn't get elsewhere? ken: what is really important to us, taylor, is, we want to work with companies and founders who really want to drive powerful, positive change for our society. what is incredibly attractive about guild is that, if one has a mission to empower the workforce of america through education, and very importantly, it has tremendous economics. this is a software platform that has very high margins, and has substantial growth opportunities. but i think what is absolutely exciting is this integration of a company that has very strong

economics and growth potential, and yet has the opportunity to transform workforce education in america. taylor: rachel, you hear ken talk about the tremendous economics of the company. what is your business model? how are you making money? rachel: sure. so at guild, we have taken a unique approach to aligning our margin and mission. it is very important. we are paid primarily by the universities, who replaced the large marketing budgets they used to have to spend on google and facebook to meet the frontline workforce of america and help them go back to school, and instead, when they save those dollars by meeting students through our employers, they pay for our technology and our services, and keep some of the savings themselves. taylor: ken, we talk about this being a company that is female led. i wonder, what has the pressure been in the last six months or 12 months to look at corporate

governance and being invested in female led companies? wework had an all-female board and that in part was one reason why they weren't able to go public. ken: i have had, i think, a very strong record of promoting and delivering on diversity. and general catalyst shares this philosophy very strongly. i think it is very important to that guild education is a female-led company. and rachel and her team have put together a very diverse team. it really is representative of what companies should be doing. and so from my standpoint, i believe that businesses and companies have to be more reflective of society overall, and we live in a very diverse society.

and we are absolutely very focused on driving technology through the technology industry, and business in general. taylor: so ken, you are joining the board. day one, what is the first change you make at the board meeting? ken: i have a high level of confidence in rachel and her management team, and what i want to do is help guild education grow and transform education in this country. and we can do that with companies working hand-in-hand, because we have in our roster, as rachel can go through, disney, walmart, discover, we have a range of companies i think are at the forefront of innovation, and trying to bring about change and succeeding in workforce education.

taylor: rachel carlson of guild education and ken chenault of general catalyst. that is it for this edition of the best of bloomberg technology. we will bring you all of the latest intact throughout the week. -- we areday livestreaming on twitter, check us out at technology in be sure to follow our global breaking news network at tictoc on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

beyond the routine checkups. beyond the not-so-routine cases. comcast business is helping doctors provide care in whole new ways. all working with a new generation of technologies powered by our gig-speed network. because beyond technology... there is human ingenuity. every day, comcast business is helping businesses go beyond the expected. to do the extraordinary. take your business beyond.

jonathan: from new york city, for our audience worldwide, i'm jonathan ferro. bloomberg real yield starts right now. coming up, investors patiently waiting for a phase one trade deal. big returns to the treasury market, yields retreating from three-month highs. u.s. credit delivering the second biggest week of issuance this year. we begin with the big issue. what is feeding investor optimism? >> it is all about trade. >> it is 100% a data issue. >> trade is becoming a secondary issue. >> i think it is dependent on trade issues.