taylor: i'm taylor riggs in san francisco. this is "bloomberg tech." hour, up in the next chipmaker rally. micron sockets the highest price in 18 months after the company reports earnings. we will break down the numbers. plus, a culture of recklessness. new allegations of a lack of regard for consequences, harassment, and more at the

softbank vision fund. what is going on? of new reports. and 2019, the year in review. ,he plans for cryptocurrency facebook felted all. what is the strategy going into 2020? first and the top story, shares of micron up after they reported better-than-expected top and bottom line numbers for their fiscal first-quarter and the forecast strong numbers for the current quarter. gross margin is something i have been eyeballing all day. they are coming in more than 27%. at the ludlow -- ed ludlow is here to break down the numbers. what is your key takeaway from this report? reporter: with these numbers, that is the optimism across wall street. the memory chip market will rebound probably at some point in the second half here. when we talk about dynamic

random access memory, we are referring to the memory change that goes into computers, pcs. you look at the chart, prices trade like a commodity. they have been trickling as new technology comes into the market and capacity comes into the market. the blue line which is micron shares have been gaining. essentially despite those positive numbers for the second quarter, wall street is saying look past that for the second half of next year where the demand for memory chips will be driven for spending by i.t. infrastructure data centers and , smartphones. yes the price of dram has been trickling down, but we could see a much more positive second half of 2020 which would mean more profit for micron. speaking of bottoming out and profits, my eyes have been on this stabilization of gross margin coming in at better-than-expected 27%. are we finally getting the stabilization analysts wanted? reporter: margins are

interesting. if you look at dram, previously the only way chipmakers could but margins have been boosted by another area of business, essentially the flash memory that stores data on devices like mobile's and pc's. they have been able to sell these trips into value at markets. we will want to hear more about that. that's essentially what micron has done. cost cut dram accounts for more than two thirds of revenue and also other areas because they have been vulnerable to the cycle and the supply demand equation has been fluctuating. they are basically looking at how they can diversify the business offering and make sure they are constantly selling chips at best -- two different business areas. taylor: thank you, ed ludlow. the softbank vision fund, best

known for its outside bets on tech start ups but in the latest cover story, sarah mcbride brings to light the environment harassmentcy and inside masayoshi son's famous fund. she joins us now. what i loved about your story is to get to know softbank, we have to get to know the founder, masayoshi son. who is he? reporter: he's an incredibly interesting guy. he's a korean immigrant to japan. he grew up in this hardscrabble way. supersmart, came here to the , movedttended berkeley back to japan, started softbank. one of the things that stood out about his background for me was in 2000, he invested $20 million in alibaba and that stake is now worth $130 billion. he's a smart guy. taylor: what do we know about his management style and how it has fueled the environment for these outside bets?

reporter: he says go big or go home. he just wants his portfolio companies and investment professionals to just keep thinking bigger, bigger, bigger. sometimes that is great like when a young entrepreneur comes to him and he tells them you're going to be the next jack ma, your company will be even bigger than you think, have you thought of this business idea or that one? sometimes, he gets impatient. we have this detail in a story about how during a conference call, he was talking to one of his investment professionals about a chinese company and was basically saying, why are your outlooks for this company so small? this company can be big. he was sort of berating this guy on the phone for not thinking big enough and made other people on the call feel embarrassed. taylor: woman talk about these

outside bets, frankly we wouldn't be here or focusing on the company so much if it weren't for wework. do we know if anything has changed structurally within the culture? reporter: after the wework derailed, they had to rethink things. expressed -- moss masayoshi son laid out how it changed some thinking within the fund. they are still going to think big and press people to grow their company as hard and fast as they can, but i don't think it's going to be growth at all costs anymore. taylor: how has some of that changed as we take a look at the new vision fund they are trying to raise? the vision fund one, very successful, some of it bleeding into vision fund two.

what do we know about the differences and the challenges with the second vision fund? reporter: here's the thing. the actual numbers of the public -- members of the public know about wework and associate the vision fund with wework. wework was just a $4.4 billion commitment out of a $100 billion fund. so they have all these other investments, some of which have a lot of potential that aren't wework. when they go out and pitch investors on vision fund two, it's not all about wework. the headlined company, but actually there are so many other companies. taylor: how much of these are the bigger losses like we work, uber, masked or upset the other successes? -- offset the other successes that the vision have had? reporter: right.

even wework, when the vision fund first invested, that is a day 20 billion-dollar valuation. they never invested at the higher valuation that other s did including other parts of softbank. their losses haven't been as bad as the other headline numbers. uber, the company is down from its ipo, but the vision fund invested long before the ipo. the results aren't great and they are dragging down some of the other results but a lot of the results are on paper only. they are marking up the valuations of some companies that have not gone public, they have not had an exit yet. that's perfectly legal, but it's just a paper increase, not actual increase. taylor: if silicon valley knows anything, they know the difference between paper money and real money. sarah mcbride, thank you for joining us. you can read more about this on the december 23 issue of

"bloomberg businessweek." shares of tesla closing at a record high on wednesday after reports the company is considering cutting the price of the china built model three sedan by 20% or more year. tesla is betting that it will lower buyers. than 50% surged more since the company reported a surprise profit on october 23. coming up, uber doesn't want to just be known as a car booking service. it is taking the gig economy not model one step further. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio. listen on the bloomberg up, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s. on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪

week leftth just a

before christmas, it is do or die time for the delivering machine. amazon has been assembling it over the last few years. longtime logistics partners like ups and fedex, the commerce strand is gearing up for the strain of holiday orders and expectations. joining us to discuss, our spencer soper in seattle. we know it's always a tough time, a big test of the year for all these logistics companies. what is amazon's big test in the next two to three weeks? reporter: the big things for is handling more of its deliveries than ever before. it is estimated about half of all amazon packages will be delivered by the system amazon has created. this is an dependent contractors who start -- independent contractors who start their own businesses. it's also flex drivers that do this uber type app where they

use their own vehicle and deliver for amazon. it's the first year amazon is doing so much of its own delivery so aggressively. we have some hints of bad weather coming that so a wildcard. work great that can in decent weather can break down in bad weather so a lot of it will be dependent on mother nature. taylor: there are things outside its control and also inside its control, like the last mile. have they mastered the last mile delivery? reporter: they are spending a lot of money on it and doing a fairly decent job. there are independent experts who monitor shipping and say they are hitting 90% plus, basically on par with fedex and ups. they also do things differently than ups and fedex. a big part of it is multiple trucks or backup flex drivers hitting the same neighborhoods on the same day. when you think about seeing a

postal truck, you might see it once a day then it is gone. you won't see it again until tomorrow. you might see multiple amazon vans and vehicles crisscrossing your neighborhood on the same day. that is considered an efficient -- inefficient in logistics, but amazon says this is necessary to provide the capacity we need and get everyone their packages in time for christmas. taylor: am i correct or jumping too many hoops saying we should start looking at amazon as a logistics company, no longer an e-commerce company? reporter: they have been a logistics company for years. it's always the back end part, the warehouses and storage, packing items, that sort of thing. they have been in the logistics game for a long time. we are just seeing them increasingly branch out from that with planes and now the last mile of delivery, which is the most visible. you might be used to seeing the most commonly postal service

truck and the brown ups truck. now you are likely seeing the blue amazon prime vans as frequently or more so than anything else. taylor: bloomberg's spencer sober thank you for joining us. , despite pressure from governments worldwide to give its gig drivers employment benefits, uber is expanding the gig economy beyond just transportation. it now has a program called --uber works connecting them with temporary staffing services. let's bring in eric newcomer. what we know about this? reporter: they were testing this and chicago, and i think the next city is miami. uber, we areok, good at getting drivers, we can hire other independent type workers we can get through staffing agencies.

the important thing is they want to see their platform. wille side, they say we not just deliver rides, we will deliver food and other things, but they don't want to ignore the other side of the platform where they provide jobs to drivers. can we provide other jobs? taylor: anything special about uber works versus the traditional staffing company? reporter: i think they will always say it is their technological know-how, their go placeo on the people in a faster way. they also have this huge brand to recruit workers and the existing network of drivers who might want to look at other types of jobs. uber wants mentioned to be the platform. clarify. sometimes i talk to analysts and is alike lyft because it play company and they are

targeted. others like uber because of the diversity, the logistics, uber eats, uber money, uber work. is there a key winner here in terms of a diversification strategy? reporter: i don't think either company is winning relative to the ipo price. but went uber went public, and today it's losses were huge, so the only way to get away with multibillion-dollar losses is to say we are using it to fund all these ambitious projects. we heard about the growth of food delivery and every other new idea under the sun. example.s like a new . i don't think it will allow uber to escape the court challenge that it needs to prove that the ridesharing business is a good one and can generate profits in the long-term. i think it's interesting, but i think at the end of the day, eats to a lesser extent, are going to define their business for the foreseeable future.

it's nice to be about to say we -- able to say we have these other projects so you should invest because of growth opportunity, but when there are fundamental questions about the core business, that is driving the stock down. i think 30% over the course of the year. taylor: and some of those are about regulation. here in california, it was seen as a huge headwind for the gig economy. any threats of regulation on the other sectors of the gig economy where uber wants to enter into? reporter: definitely. i think from the business world, there is a sense, there are these huge startups, everybody is using independent contractors. they will figure this out. from governments like california, we are seeing clear signs that governments are just slow to move and there is still plenty of scrutiny on independent contractor status. that is still playing out. the law takes a long time. , which isynamics case

key for the independent contractors. it took years to play out. this is a long, slow process. i think it's interesting uber is diving headfirst into independent contractors with uber works while there's all this pressure on its core employment model. taylor: the area near of it all. thank you to eric newcomer for breaking it down for us. coming up, instagram making serious changes to its influencer policy. how the company is cracking down on vaping next. bloomberg is livestreaming on her. check us out @technology. also quick take on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪

that's get to today's

top tech calls. data dog started with a buy rating. the firm issued a target of $50 while saying the valuation reflects one of the highest revenue multiples and highest revenue growth rates in the software universe. twitter's price target was cut to $36 a share to reflect updating the model to reflect the third-quarter results. they say we remain largely concerned on the near term. peloton's price target was raised to $39 per share. bernstein said the unit economics suggests that margin profile might be higher than previously forecast. 2034.ofit margins by those were a look at the top tech calls. i want to move over to instagram, finally making rules to govern content in influencer advertising.

the app's most followed users will no longer be allowed to promote products related to vaping, tobacco and weapons. sarah frier joins us to talk about more of a hands-on approach to influencers. reporter: it has been a wild west in marketing where these influencers are making their own deals on brands and what they get paid and instagram is not a part of that discussion, however there's been a lot of pushback. the u.k. advertising authority, the federal trade commission saying there needs to be some influencer on advertising, specifically on vaping that has been targeting teenagers. this is really the first rule instagram has ever made to regulate that community. reporter: and how much of this is pushback from the regulations , given concerns about vaping, for example, and facebook and instagram saying we need to do

something? reporter: instagram to their credit is not just talking about vaping, they are saying they --l not allow ads on webbing weapons or tobacco products. this is a bit of a widening of the rule. that said, there has not been a lot of enforcement on these rules for influencers. a few years ago, they said all ifluencers had to disclose they were getting paid from brands. often, we still see influencers disclosing paid by brands, and not disclosing what's required by the ftc. taylor: and this isn't new. spoke, and ago we instagram said if you pay for your content, you are not allowed to talk about politics and a host of other issues. is this along the same lines of expanding the category which instagram is paying for your video, the topic is off the table? reporter: it gets complicated because you have the regular advertising system, advertisers

buying ads through facebook and deciding to put them on instagram. then you have regular branded content, which is advertisers working with facebook and instagram. then you have an influencer advertising market, sponsored content architect, which is outside the visibility of instagram and instagram in many cases and is operating as a relationship between the user and those brands. increasingly, that content is very popular in making up a lot of the content on instagram itself. taylor: how do advertisers feel? sarah: advertisers were looking at this as a place where they can do whatever they want. now they will have to be more careful. the other thing is instagram just started asking its users what their birthdates are. and another portion of this restriction, rolling out sometime next year, is that they will start to limit who can see

ads about alcohol, diet products, and other things that should be age restricted. taylor: we know that europe has been relatively strict compared to the u.s. you mentioned the u.k. advertising standards authority this week came out with their ruling on tobacco. how much is the u.s. playing catch-up to what we are seeing in europe? reporter: the u.s. ftc has been very interested in juul marketing to use. -- youth. that is playing into it here. who is getting this message and how do influencers play into that? taylor: sarah frier, thanks for joining us. coming up, we dive back into chipn's earnings as the reaches out to stabilize growth margins. we get the latest from the analyst call currently underway. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: this is "bloomberg technology." we will join "bloomberg daybreak: australia" to bring you the latest in global news. i'm joining sherry and in new york and paul allen in sydney. let's take a look at the other top stories. reporter: bloomberg learned tesla may cut the price of the china made model three sedan by 20% or more next year. tesla is betting the move will lure buyers in the world's largest market for electric vehicles. new york city is waiting on apple. a year ago, apple announced it

was bringing hundreds of jobs to the city, but now new york's real estate industry is wondering when the company will make its move. apple has a limited presence here beyond its retail stores. meanwhile, google and facebook have become two of manhattan's biggest tenants, a sign the tech companies are tapping into the educated workforce. apple, google, amazon are wanting one language for smart home devices. they are joining up with an alliance that promotes standards for the internet of things. the goal -- to come up with a way to make internet of things and interconnected homes easier to use. those are the top global tech stories we are watching. taylor: thank you. micron reported a strong showing wednesday when the chipmaker reported first-quarter earnings. micron impressed wall street with a strong outlook of between $4.5 billion to $4.8 billion in revenue. shares in after hours trading

jumped. with more on the analyst call, wedbush securities analyst matt bryson, who has an outperform on the stock. and he was on the call. what was your key takeaway? what did you hear from management? >> i think there were a couple of things that were important. one is they are seeing tightness in certain areas. also, they are calling a bottom for memory in general. they think this current order is -- quarter is going to be a bottom of the cycle. that fits with tightness in certain areas of dram and the fact that they saw pricing move up in the quarter just reported. it very much parallels the guidance they gave for flat gross margins, which again suggests pricing is normalizing finally. paul: pricing normalizing finally, signs of tightness. does this have any implications for capex or expansion of capacity? >> i think at this point, they are remaining conservative in their capex outlook.

they are keeping their guidance steady. i think that's the prudent thing to do, to wait for demand to come back. they did note there was a point of uncertainty in terms of how much inventory china has accumulated. just coming back from asia, that is something i continue to hear, so i think they are taking the prudent course right now and not yet investing capex. if recovery continues, i expect memory in general will look to support their customers and expand capacity, but that is not happening yet. taylor: i'm showing a chart to our terminal audience right now, which is as you describe, the share price of micron, and the lower and lower dram and nand prices.

we've been calling for a bottom, really, a lot of 2019. are you confident we have finally hit a bottom? >> i think on nand, i am. looking at pricing moving forward, i believe contract negotiations have concluded favorably for calendar q1, so micron's fiscal q2. when you look forward in the nand space, you have a huge driver in demand in new gaming consoles, which are switching from hard drives to ssd's. you also have an added boost and a better handset outlook in part predicated by 5g. on the dram side, it is slightly more difficult to call. hear the server dram contract is -- having said that, starting to hear the server dram contract is moving up, so in my mind, that's the first sign we have really bottomed on the dram side. spot pricing the last couple of weeks is starting to rebound. large cloud customers, who are an important point of demand for dram, have increased their buying.

while there's not quite as much visibility there, yes, i think we have seen a bottom. paul: we have micron shares up 60% from their july. how much further do you think they have to run? >> i have a price target of 65, which is about nine times my prior eps estimate. that, however, only assumes gross margins in the mid-40 range. last cycle, the margins topped out at 60%, so i would say there is certainly room to move up in the mid 60's, and if you have a relatively strong cycle this time around, i think my estimates could certainly go up from where they are right now. taylor: matt bryson of wedbush. thank you for joining us straight from that analyst call.

plenty more global stories when we return. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: now to our weeklong series, big tech 2019 rewind, where we look at the biggest technology companies and the challenges they faced over the last year. facebook ended 2019 much as it began -- over political and regulatory pressure. the social network's news feed proved no longer the lone crown jewel it once was. acquisitions of instagram and whatsapp became more interesting in terms of performance and potential. >> everything's growing. facebook, messenger, instagram,

whatsapp. >> instagram and whatsapp have been the breakout successes for facebook with ad revenue and record-breaking app downloads, but facebook plans to integrate them has caught the eye of the ftc. they may try and stop the plan to merge the technology platforms. this is not the ftc's first look at facebook. this past summer, the social network was slapped with a record-breaking $5 billion fine overrt of a settlement consumer rights. >> facebook betray the trust of consumers and deceived them about their ability to control their personal information. >> data privacy is the focus of the european union's commissioner of competition, who is investigating how data may be used unfairly to stifle competition. no place was more focused on competition then washington, d.c., where ceo mark zuckerberg appeared many times. at georgetown university, he defended his decision not to fact check ads from politicians. >> as a principal, in a democracy, i believe people should decide what is credible, not tech companies. >> it was zuckerberg's congressional appearances that likely generated most interest.

facebook's cryptocurrency plan was called into question by lawmakers. >> is it a currency? are you a bank? what is this association? >> it's a very complex project, and, as you say, it's risky. >> so facebook enters 2020 in a risky place. libra is set to launch in the new year and the project is under review of the u.s. justice department, the ftc, and nearly all the states' attorneys general. with that kind of pressure, we will have to see if facebook investors stay or shy away. here with no shortage of prospective is david kirk practic, -- david kirkpatrick techonomy's ceo and founder. , arguably, what is shocking to me about this entire thing is the price share. take a look at this inside my terminal. despite all of those headwinds we just discussed, facebook is up 54% year to date.

what do you make of this? >> it really creates some cognitive dissonance for me and makes you realize wall street just does not care about anything except growth and earnings and revenue. in a year when facebook got a $5 billion record fine -- gigantic ally greater than any company has ever been fined by the ftc for a privacy matter, and their stock still performed beautifully well for the year, you really have to say we are not going to get any help from wall street in reining in a company that really needs to be reined in in ways that, frankly, are hard, but let's face it -- somebody's got to do it. taylor: i want to take a look at a chart that i also made especially for you. it is the forward p/e ratio of facebook. i'm charting this relative to the other big competitors. facebook, frankly, still undervalued according to that metric. is that part of why shares saw the big gains this year?

>> in terms of the game, you had really awful performance in 2018, a couple of quarters in the back half of the year where they missed numbers. two d rate it pretty profoundly, i would say if i look at even the reaction to conceivably trying to block the integration, which could be obviously a precursor to trying to break up the company, i think you actually are seeing a reasonable amount of conservatism factored in. since we launched coverage on the company, one of the tenants of our initiation basically was we have never seen a more hostile regulatory environment. i think truth be told, a lot of people were initially surprised stop did not react more -- stock did not react more negatively to the headlines, but there is an element of sort of them playing through if you look at the other names in big tech and the move they have had this year. taylor: comment on some of those antitrust issues michael was alluding to. is there a case to be made for breaking up this company?

>> i'm not an advocate for breakup, but there's no question the regulatory pushback this company is facing all over the world is not like anything any company has probably ever seen. there is movement against google and to a lesser extent amazon, but facebook is the company regulators are looking at in the eu, parts of asia, the united states, both parties here, and it is true, despite the fact they had a pretty good year on balance in their stock, that they are still below their highs. they have in hurt by all these controversies that never seem to leave them. maybe michael is right, that it is factored into the stock. it is just such an incredibly profitable company, and they have such an incredibly good at business, which is michael's expertise, that you have to give them credit for that. if you want to make money in the market, this is a company that will keep raising revenues and

targets. taylor: as an analyst who covers the company, do you like what the company is doing in terms of trying to integrate all these platforms together? >> ostensibly, why the government is conceivably trying to go after them, yes, it likely does. they have definitely not had a lot of success to date monetizing messenger and monetizing whatsapp, and a big part of why they have been so successful monetizing instagram is they've got this phenomenal targeting engine and they've got the strong ad base in place, and you just can do a better job monetizing these assets than anybody besides google. talked about that, but one thing that stuck out to me is instagram stories was effectively copied from snapchat. do you get nervous when the big ad engine was copied and not innovated from within? >> if you look at what they've done, they've done quite a bit of innovation.

-- emulation. i'm trying to remember the expression, the ultimate form of flattery is emulated. there are some things they innovated on. it is something that has classically happened in tech for years. have i been consistently blown away with what they have come out with in terms of new platforms? no, i have not, but, you know, david mentioned they have built a very good, durable ad business that performs for advertisers. that keeps the dollars coming in the door. taylor: i want to look upon over to libra. >> i think they made a mistake announcing it when they did. as zuckerberg said in the clip, it's a very complex thing. why bring a new complex issue into your public and government relations strategy when you are already under incredible threat of government regulation for a bunch of other reasons and why

you have basically very little public approval? i think it was very foolish. i think partly because of that, there's no chance libra will get launched any time soon. plus, zuckerberg has said he will not launch unless he has regulatory approval both in the united states and the eu, which to me means, for now, it's a dead. taylor: i'm curious about your take on zuckerberg's relationship with d.c. you mentioned it is one of the most hostile regulatory environments. yesterday, we talked about apple. tim cook arguably has a great working relationship with the president. he has his ear. what do you want to see from mr. zuckerberg in terms of improving his relationship with d.c.? >> i think it is pretty tough to do. [laughter] i don't know if i have a magic answer for you on that one. at least i feel like he is hearing from some of the troops as they were under assault last year from the press, and it's not like it wasn't warranted, some of the things they were

getting attacked for. i felt like there was this initial everybody in the bunker, and he has gone out and tried to tell a story, and i think they have certainly learned from this. i think they are being proactive. i think they recognize they are under a greater degree of regulatory scrutiny, but i understand d.c.'s opinion, and it is certainly going to be a political year, no doubt. taylor: your thoughts on zuckerberg's improving relationship with d.c.? >> i actually think there is a real similarity between how zuckerberg and cook are treating the president. they are both cozying up to him, doing what he wants in order to keep him off their back. it is a president who is fons -- response very well to flattery. who knows what mark said when he was in the oval office with board member peter thiel who spoke on behalf of the president at the republican convention? but that was a pretty friendly thing to do, to go and schmooze with the president secretly, and

let's just face the reality that his moves to refuse to regulate political advertising is exactly what the president would like. i think that is fairly savvy, especially if he believes, which he seems to, that the president will get reelected. taylor: one quick question to both of you. i want to look at the company into 2020. could this be a top pick? where do you see the stop going after a 54% run out this year? >> if i roll forward to 2021, as considering the market is basically on its highs, as a general rule, i feel like that is where the buy side is going, to 50, 260 could get , to the upside. what makes it a little more challenging -- there's not much of an element of surprise. street is around $11. the buy side believes it is more like $12. in general, you want to see companies that are beating and raising versus expectations.

where i struggle with it is i don't believe, i hear from my peers and the buy side that they should be trading 24, 25 times gaap eps when you have this regulatory overhang. framed the regulatory overhang, what i've heard the buy side do is if you break it up, there is revenue dis-synergies. that to me simplifies what would be an extremely challenging thing for facebook to do given a pretty tight labor market. taylor: your thoughts, quickly, facebook in 2020? >> the only thing that will hurt facebook from a stock perspective long-term is if real regulation begins to be imposed. gdp is the only thing they have faced so far. i think that could happen. probably it is a little further out. the other thing is if statistics emerge that affluent users in developed countries are stopping their use of facebook, which i think is possible. i think there is clearly a trend

that the most affluent customers they have, the users, are not as enthusiastic as they used to be. they are trying to make up for it in the developing world, but that is a problem. taylor: thank you. much more next. this is bloomberg. ♪

taylor: hotel chains and home sharing sites have been encroaching on each other's turf, and the latest player to blur the line has a model with a mix of wework and airbnb. now with a $1 billion valuation, they are making a move into traditional hotels. i spoke to ceo francis davidson on tuesday about the business model and how he plans to make sounder stand out. >> the way sonder works is by partnering with developers. effectively, we lease buildings. last quarter, about 72% of the weperties were buildings

managed. the idea is we make spaces attractive as a next-generation hotel experience, one which usually offers an apartment, a studio, and also, the recent actual hotel room. we offer a wide range of accommodation, but designed to make the experience frictionless. taylor: very competitive space. why use sonder over anyone else? >> there's $1 trillion a year spent on accommodations globally. the biggest in the world has just a 4% market share. there is a wide range of choices consumers have. i think what they love is they get a really attractive, sizable property for a cost that's usually a fraction of a hotel room. it's usually a better experience at a lower price. that's the main reason people stay with us. taylor: you mentioned marriott. it's interesting you made comments earlier that you wanted your revenue to top marriott's by 2025. they pull in $20 billion

annually. how are you getting there? where are you in that goal? >> the proposition is so attractive to guests that stay with us, it's quite easy for us to do a minimal to no-marketing spend, to reach 80% plus occupancy rates. the growth is entirely led from the real estate that we can bring onto the platform. it is really supply-side limitations. the mathematics is if we are capable of adding x number of markets and x number of properties in each market on a quarterly basis, we arrive at a really large business quite rapidly. taylor: how long are your long-term leases you are entering into? >> they are typically five years. with renewable options, it is one different share from tech enable companies, we are careful about risk mitigation, so it's not just the lease durations we care about, but also making sure there's downside protections built into the leases. as economic conditions change, our rents go down. there's a lot of innovation that goes to the financial structuring. taylor: i wanted to ask about that. how much of your business is tied to the economic cycle? if we hit a downturn and you are on the hook for those leases and no one is coming and renting

from you, how exposed are you to that? >> absolutely, this is something that was critical to investors. millions toaised date. we have looked at every recession that has occurred, what happens to hotel revenues, and we built into our leases a reduction of costs, of rent that was triggered by recession. we are carefully planning the downside scenario. we know our -- we are 11 years into a bull market. it is critical for us to think about if there is a recession in 2021 or 2022, what do the financials of the business look like, and we make sure we are prepared for it. taylor: how many questions from investors did you get differentiating yourself from wework in the midst of the hysteria going on on the sidelines? >> it's no surprise to the world of venture capital that the wework business did not work quite well in the last few months. it was kind of a response to lack of focus on unit economics, poor governance, things that at

sonder we have been obsessed with doing right the last two years. we have been extraordinarily transparent because in our view, we are quite proud of the kind of financial viability we have built. we think the public markets are going to love this story. taylor: you make it clear you are not an airbnb competitor and you are not an apartment listing platform. do you consider yourself a real estate company? >> i think a tech enabled hospitality brand is the way i would describe the business. at the end of the day, we sell experiences for the consumer. taylor: you said you were looking forward to the public markets looking at you. plan to go public? >> there's no set timeline, but within the 18 to 36-month horizon, it's a possibility. ceoor: that was sonder francis davidson. that does it for this edition of "bloomberg technology," and "bloomberg technology" is livestreaming on twitter, and be sure to follow our global news network @quicktake on twitter. this is bloomberg. ♪ . ♪

announcer: the following is a paid presentation brought to you by rare collectibles tv. ♪ announcer: the california gold rush is considered to be one of the most impactful events to impact america's economy for its first 100 years, and it has certainly had a long lasting impression in numismatic history, as well. it all began in 1848 when james marshall found flakes of gold in loma, california. in no time at all, newspapers printed headlines about the