tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg December 23, 2019 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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taylor: i'm taylor riggs in san francisco. this is "bloomberg technology." coming up in the next hour -- stock record. has less shares touch $420, the gold price -- goal price elon musk outlined. how much higher can it go? plus, automated hacking. risks will morph into new threats. is your information safe?
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a ceo of ak to security firm. and lyft, peloton, all went public. we will have a recap of it all. tesla shares said a new record high, $420. elon musk claimed tesla would go private last year. earlier today, he tweeted the stock price is so high, lol. our bloomberg reporter. what is driving it for tesla this time around? allrter: the momentum is about china, taylor. one $.4t, tesla group billion from financing and local banks and much welcome cash injection. that built momentum from last week, where in november, new vehicle registrations for tesla
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in china hit a five month. you'll remember those vehicles are subject to a 25% import duty. if tesla can get that shanghai run up and running, they can offer vehicles that are more competitive priced, and the unit costs will be lower. they will be able to get deeper into the market in china. that is really where recent momentum has been driving the stock for tesla. taylor: i want to come and show a chart i am showing here inside my terminal. it is the share price, than the short. which recently, had been getting crushed. short off guard so much? reporter: the momentum extends from the profit that came in at $1.86. the loss at $.24 per share is really what happened. really, elon musk and tesla are the masters of keeping everyone
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tom tesla fanatics, consumers, to wall street firmly focused on the horizon to what is to come next. the most example from that is the tesla cyber truck. ev truck that will not go into production until 2021 people have been talking about in recent weeks. keep people focused on the positives of the future rather than the short terms of the present for tesla. taylor: ed, thank you for joining us. where coming up on just the end of the year, but they tech has definitely made its mark. rbc capital.from come and take a look at my terminal here. it is just the thing continuing to crush the s&p 500 this year. what happened, even with all the --ks outstanding big tech
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outstanding, big tech is the star performer? >> think it has to be the revenue that has been consistent with these names. google has gone 39 straight quarters of 20% revenue. 35 orders ofgone 35% revenue growth. amazon has done something of 70 two quarters of 20% revenue growth. it is so rare you get that consistency at that level of scale. compounder's. there is a bit of extra in facebook as they treated off aggressively the year before, but people like compounders. taylor: we talk about the key things of 2019. it will not be 2019 if we did not talk about the year of the botched ipo. did the market finally learn this year the difference between growth and growth in energy cost? >> i think so. if you set it up that way, the market goes back and forth.
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sometimes it wants growth, sometimes value. uber wereft and running their businesses for growth. i think the market changed their mind when they had their ipos. they both have done the right thing. they have come out and committed turned they were even profitable. taylor: you have been covering the sector for decades. do you feel that the market, even though it has a short memory, changed structurally when it comes to profitability, or do you think we could easily go back to favoring growth or a value? >> i still think we will favor growth over value. uber was in a very unusual ipo. we had not had a company go public with that level of losses, $3.5 billion. overalso had big losses,
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$1 billion. ofr came out offering more the same with some management questions, as well. we just had three issues of public market said ok on the first two cases and no mas on the third one. taylor: there are some other tech ipos on a smaller scale that you cover. they are trading below their ipo price. somethinga theme or idiosyncratic going on? >> think something idiosyncratic and something to do with the timing of their expiration. they generally outperformed the market and stayed within their ipo price. the public markets are trading the lack of expirations, putting a lot of pressure on going in and buying coming up. my guess is that the same is going to happen when we look at
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both of those assets since months from now, they will be high above their ipo prices. taylor: you also mentioned uber and lyft a few times. both stocks are down 32%, 36% since their ipo. what happened besides his timing -- just timing? >> he things could have been poorly price. i think that from time to time happens. it is a really hard thing. very high losses for each of these assets. they also were reporting accelerating revenue growth going into their ipos, so i think a lot of it has to do with these things being poorly executed and poorly priced. it is easy for me to say that on the research side, i am not a banker. taylor: you are on the research side, which means you are looking at the fundamentals when you take a look at cash flow analysis and all of that. when theyieve them say there will be a positive by 2021, which both companies are
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aiming to do? >> wth uber -- with uber, you have to peel apart the business. it is still in the food fight stage, if you will. on the ridesharing business, there was one number to keep in mind. that istake right, a good business. -- rate, that is a good business. people are warming up to over. taylor: the other big theme of the year was streaming wars. on netflix -- >> they are getting close to solving that problem, i think. there hedge is generating international, original content -- original content in international markets. they will launch 30 new series for the filipinos, for south korea, for germany, for turkey, etc. that was the single biggest
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trend in consumer entertainment streaming. everybody is streaming. taylor: correct me on what your research says, domestic subscribers are more profitable than international subscribers. so while netflix is going international for the growth, isaiah is comfortable -- are they as comfortable as the message subscribers? >> that is a great question. in some markets, the margins or hires overseas than they are in the u.s.. the pop -- the profitability of the market determines how expensive the marketing is and it is.ensive this is the most expensive market in the world when it comes to producing content and -- yeah, that is a simple statement. there are markets overseas were they can scale the better margins. i think that statement is very widely believed in the financial markets. i think the financial markets are wrong on that. taylor: i want to went 2019
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before we take a look at 2020 with what stock surprised you the most, whether to the upside or to the downside in terms of where you thought they would be an and where they actually came in at. taylor: -- >> netflix i didn't think would miss the u.s. subs prior to the lunches. wasbig positive surprise facebook. i thought that was way over sold last year. it owns the two largest social media assets and messaging applications in the world. it is a great business model and investors forgot about that. taylor: facebook is going to lead us right into our next conversation. markmahaney -- because ey of rbc a thing with us. you can listen on the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, or in the u.s. on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪
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taylor: we are back with mark mahaney of rbc capital. now, it is time to take a look forward to 2020. fresh off the press, 53 pages, your topics for 2020. number one is over. how the heck is your topic uber? has stock come on failed ipo, it has a business losing a lot of money. with think the story is going to get better and better as we go through the year. it is likely to have more upside like facebook did. the economics are starting to prove themselves up. with this company has to do is
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bring down operating losses each and every quarter. of 2020 that by the end going into 2021, we can have a break even order. lyft,: more so than because of its diversification? >> think they are joined at the hip. what i find this the shorter term oriented funds have preferred lyft because it does not have the food business and is just in the u.s. market, but the flipside is that uber has more leverage, they can sell one assets. international they also have 70% market share in the u.s.. generally the company with the it.et share determines that is uber. i think this is going to be a court fight. we think that it could lead something like a single digit lead.
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lyft gave out a lot of subsidies to drivers in order to get them to drive with them in the first place. if you are giving them benefits, there is less need to give out subsidies. they can pass some of these expenses onto consumers. the result you small percentage of drivers and the services that are actually full-time drivers. those are the hedges. taylor: i want to take a look at number two and number three, google and facebook. with all of the risks, the antitrust, googland facebook are number two and number three. regulatory affairs have been driving a couple of years. peaknk we are close to regulatory affairs -- fares. we have already seen the worst of it. we have seen fines imposed against both company and it has revenuected their growth rates. the interesting angle on google is the business has finally
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gotten scalable than big enough so you can actually have a positive earnings story out of google this year. with the two cofounders kind of stepping aside, we make it more rationality and some of their investment. what they call the other bets area. taylor: are you thinking facebook is poised for better revenue growth than google? >> yeah, absolutely. also keep in men we have two things coming up this next year, the quality quadrennial year. we have the olympics and the elections. i think both of these companies will materialize from that. facebook and google are a great way to play the. taylor: another big tech name is notably absent on your list. where is amazon? >> i think there is an overhang there. it is a medium by us, not a strong buy. -- medium buy, not a strong buy. as a long-term market, it is great. the business has been slowing
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greateressure, competition from microsoft. investors want to see clearing of the year before we get more aggressive on the stock. taylor: i want to go down into some of the smaller companies. we were talking about netflix earlier. spotify compared to netflix in terms of the original content model. do you see them doing that? greater growth potential for the company? >> there are pros and cons with spotify versus netflix. the pro-is there -- they are not going to spend enough on original content is netflix. -- as netflix. haveegative is that they much less leverage versus their suppliers. there are three major music labels. cons either way -- i like spotify into this next year, we think they will wrap up nba gross deals
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margin capitalists -- and be a gross margin capitalist. roku is another company like at this point, trading right now at a 140. you have a 160 on roku. is this a good derivative place on the streaming wars, or do they have something special? >> that is exactly it. there are three or four derivatives on the streaming worse. have all traded like derivatives -- they have all traded like derivatives. new secrets. you just pointed out there are maybe 10 or 15% -- 10% to 15% upside to the target. i guess i am struggling a little bit and there is probably risk reward and -- in large cap than small cap. taylor: if you look at 2020 overall, you see mostly positive
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sentiment heading into the year. overall, is that correct -- is that a correct way to characterize how you're feeling about the sector going into the new year? minouche: >> -- >> think the sentiment on the names is generally bullish. it makes it tougher to really get upset in the stocks. that makes you want to look for that dislocated stock. we had facebook is one of our top picks. we got lucky going int 2019. -- into 2019. i think investors will come to it with fundamentals terms taylor: -- fundamentals terms. haneyr: that is mark manhe of rbc. we have seen attacks on institutional scale third what -- wehat as it look like have seen attacks on the institutional scale. what will that look like as we go into the new year? this is bloomberg. ♪
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institutions and social network platform start with 2019 wrapping up and an election looming in 2020, we are now -- by ourthe guest to talk about with the left people look like next year with a firm that helps companies worldwide safeguard their data. i want to go to first, how much the look at the space in 2020, the expect firms to increase are --nding on cybersecurity increase their spending on cybersecurity? >> i think the reality is the cyber concerns are increasing, not decreasing, because we see very highly visible attacks. people need to improve their posture. i expect spending on cyber related products and services to increase over the coming year. taylor: you were talking about -- three key trends.
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how are they becoming more personalized, where more and more, we get threats, if you will? >> think the reality is infrastructure broadly has become more secure. some type of targeted attack using some sort of social engineering. facebook at your account, instagram, they try to find out something about you and click witha -- lure in some way. we do a lot of work helping raise the awareness of every single employee. we can all be better at identifying ourselves in ensuring we are not being lowered into some kind of cyber attack. the unfortunate reality is, if they attack you at work i'm a they will likely attack you on home as well. taylor: i thought we all knew how do ignore spam emails. how are we still getting tricked
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by emails? >> it is the way business runs today. those are the kind of texts coming in. if you look back, 94% of all breaches come back to a civil person. the way they are even -- a single person. they are being targeted by email or some cloud application. taylor: we are fastly approaching the 2020 elections, what are the threats at this moment in the cycle of the election? what are the biggest issues at this moment? >> i think anytime where there is some form of uncertainty around an election, you have a lot more participation by cyber actors. they will create lowers and related -- lures related to that event with that point in time. people will be more susceptible to being lured into some kind of attack. taylor: how are you assisting local campaigns and that? >> for us, we are trying to help our customers be better secured
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and secure their employees. we are very much focused on watching what threat actors are doing and what the -- and where the market is headed. taylor: the you see similar threats like we saw in the dnc hack with clinton back in 2016? are those threats similar, and are we better prepared? >> think we are better prepared in the attacks are more sophisticated today. as we enter the election year, you will see more participants more broadly in the threat environment. state actors to organize crime to anyone trying to take advantage of another person. taylor: what do we do to prevent -- not hiking on voting machines -- hacking on voting machines, utility, power grid, is there anything to do to prevent those, which fortunately have been few were in the u.s.? >> i think there is broader all ofss today across those organizations, they are raising the awareness of their employees and improving their infrastructure. i think that going back to the first point we made, the thing
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that is most honorable today as people, because that ultimately is the root of any kind of breach that ultimately happens. organizations are thinking harder about how to better defend their people, because they are the key to unlocking what is behind the source. taylor: any big change to help the election in 2020? >> i think everyone needs to be vigilant. over the last 18 months, $26 billion have been lost related to even a simple category is business imo compromise. -- email compromise. vigilanto be more -- we need to be more vigilant at work and at home. taylor: think you for joining us. still ahead, we explain the we work debacle. -- wework debacle. that is next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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♪ taylor: this is "bloomberg technology." i am taylor riggs san francisco. in less than a year wework one from being the darling of the venture capital world to needing a rescue package and financing from goldman sachs to avoid collapsing. bloomberg original presents the story of how the company got here. take a listen. >> in less than one year, wework went from one of the most highly valued startups to losing more than 3/4 of its value, ousting its ceo and
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desperately needing a cash out to keep the lights on. to understand how we got here, we need to take a look into mistakes made along the way. >> the ambitious vision of wework is dead period. >> this is a case study of when a company got too much money too fast with no oversight. >> that company is going to get smaller. the story is over. >> as late as summer 2019 the co-working companies was considered one of the most valuable startups with a $47 billion price tag. more than airbnb and spacex. in a few months time that valuation has vanished and the very future of the company is in doubt. to understand how this happened, it all starts with the company's now former coeo and founder adam neumann. >> adam neumann is the co-founder and was the ceo for a long time. he came over to new york for college.
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after being in the is really and -- in the israeli navy started a baby clothes line with knee pads. >> his landlord were showing him a building in brooklyn where he came up the idea of sub dividing that space with his co-founder, a trained architect came up with a plan and they started a, and he called green desk which they sold, was was the first iteration of wework, which they started in 2010. ing was where it started. today there is a movement in changing the way people work. >> 2010 was a great time to g officeco-workin buildings, vacancies. the first building in grand street in downtown manhattan was where wework launched its first spot. from there it was boom. from 2010 to 2011, it doubled
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in size. and byness gew quickly 2015 the company quadrupled its valuation to $10 billion. paying memberships in 32 locations, renting desks for as little as $45 per month. 's the whole idea was let not just be a commercial office setting. community surrounded by a group of like-minded individuals being part of something bigger than yourself inspires people to work harder, spend more time at work and have fun doing it. >> this excitement drew in more investors to the company. >> this company is not 2.0. it's 10.0. taking it to the next level. when you walk into their space, you see the excitement and you see the interaction, it is a very partial concept -- a very powerful concept.
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>> the most crucial investor would be softbank. >> the time wework really started to take off was when softbank invested in 2017. they gave them a valuation of $20 billion and that is when you start to get into the high ranks of other venture private companies. >> with softbank's investment wework expanded its footprint throughout the world. >> it's the beginning of this partnership between adam neumann and the head of softbank. they have this meeting that is told again and again in the lore of wework, where adam made this page and he said, that is great but let's make it bigger. >> wework is one of over 80 companies that softbank's vision fund has backed with $100 billion. >> there is lots of money out there in this unique period of transformation. let's make everything happen faster with more money. let's enable companies that have smart ideas to get even more
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ambitious, bigger and faster. >> after getting these investments from softbank and license to spend quickly, that is just what wework did. opening more offices around the world, making investments in a variety of different companies, and even opening it elementary school in new york city. >> it's almost stuff of legend, how recklessly wework spent his money from a comes a that makes wave pull to a company that makes super foods led by a guy adam met surfing. >> when you see a startup and the commercial real estate sector, investing in an indoor wave pool company, and in a children's school, you know something has gone wrong. is part of spectacular rise and fall of wework, a production of bloomberg originals. you can watch the rest on bloomberg..com. ceo says the company
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plans to be a one-stop shop for intercity travel and it may include flying taxis. spokehe at the economic club of new york in december. >> ultimately, where you are going to be with uber is we are just going to be an app, if you want to get from point a to b, we will tell you the smartest way to get there. we're doing it in little ways. huge amounts of data to figure this out. if you are in new york city, if you happen to be at 42nd street, and you are going to jfk, and you hire an uber black, we may tell you to take an uber copter. that is technology that is being built right now. imagine need to do is -- a world where the copter is replacing. taylor: the mayor was not impressed with uber's response to its regulators.
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>> they were quite aggressive. let's see where they go to the courts whether they change their tone. i hope they do because, actually when you speak to londoners who use private hir vehicles they like it. taylor: the mayor says he will not compromise on public safety and uber should communicate better with transport authorities. two years ago the ceo was forced to retirsign after a series of scandals. the replacement has pushed the company beyond rid e sharing. as 2019 wraps up, uber is set to be one of the worst-performing stock debuts of the year. it is down 30%. burdened by the losses and the long-term viability of the business. emily chang sat down with its
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ceo for an exclusive conversation. >> p arart of our business has o fight for money. if theyy're not deserving money, they are not going to get it. believe me, internally, there is a lot of creative destruction and a lot of -- if one part of our business is not carrying its own weight, we will pull back. china andback out of we turned the $2 billion investment in cash into what can be a 10 plus billion dollars stake in a big ridesharing business in china. so, we are in the end, we are looking to build a business. we want to build a business in alignment. working, we is not can demonstrate the financial discipline to make the right call at the right time. emily: driver protests are not unusual. when we last visited there was a protest outside. pete buttigieg was out there. gig is another word for jobs.
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that means you are worker and you ought to be protected as a worker. ther eis support for legislation that would force companies like uber that rely on contract drivers and delivery people to make them full-time. why shouldn't they be full-time? >> because they do not want to be full-time. more than half of our drivers in the u.s. drive less than 10 hours with us a week. listen, right now california has an historic opportunity. we are having these discussions and we want to get to solutions. we're offering $21 minimum an hour when you are driving on the platform. we're offering benefits, and we're offering a voice as far as how you are going to be treated going for. 21 bucks an hour compared to 12 minimum wage. and youe real rights, get the flexibility that every single uber driver or courier
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was because they can come into the market when they want to or out. this is an opportunity to revolutionize the gig economy, and i do not think gig is a typ e of work. besay everyone needs to full-time, etc., i do not think that is correct because it takes away flexibility and flexibility is absolutely some thing that all our drivers price. if the legislatures worked in the interest of making something happen absolutely, and you know that we are making very significant investments in safety as far as the safety center, tracking your ride, etc. we believe we are "the" leader in safety as far as transportation goes in the world, and we will continue to invest aggressively ther.e e. emily: as the stock goes down. aboutess is writing
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helium balloons. how do you stay focused on the long-term? >> you know this is a wedge and a generation company that will change how people access opportunity and how people move. the work we are doing is really important. theyone is going to look at short-term price. it is part of being a public company. and the equity is a representation of their work, but i think the people here understand that if they keep innovating, if they keep working hard, the rewards will absolutely come. can't control the timing but you absolutely can control the outcome. taylor: that was uber's ceo, speaking to emily chang. or direct up, ipo's listings. how companies choose to go public. we will hear from our interview with the nyse president next. this is bloomberg. ♪
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taylor: there is a growing chorus on the benefits of direct listings as an alternative to ipo led by a venture capitalist the benchmark. spotify loved the direct listing trend in 2018. ar, airbnb has indicated it is leaning toward the direct stock listing next year. i caught up with stacey cunningham in october. for copies to embrace the direct listing mechanism. for will tilt the scale companies preferring direct listings? stacey: if you think about why come please choose to go public. one is access to capital. two is having the credibility of
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a public listing. third is liquidity for early investors and employees. very often getting paid in shares or options of stock and want oto buy a house. four is currency so they can engage in m&a. traditionally access to capital has been the primary driver and raising money, and what we are seeing now is for many companies because they are much larger companies, and the private market space, it is more the liquidity for the employees that is driving the public listings. it allows you to ask yourself, can we decouple capital raising from a public offering? that is what spotify started. the ceo asked that question. why do i need to go with a traditional ipo i'm not looking to raise money? that was the genesis of the direct listing. role changedid your between a direct listing and an ipo? stacey: we have been helping companies come to market so they have access to capital for a very long time.
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the ipo mechanism that we talk about so much h really only been around since the early'sa 1970'ss. change our job. our job is to find price. we are positioned to do that at the new york stock exchange because we have a market maker that is assigned to trade securities. with a direct listing they are looking for their opening price in the morning to establish what the value of the company is and where supply meets demand. that is the job we do every day. sanor: you are in francisco attending meetings about direct listings. in your conversations, what do you hear from underwriters who used to be profitable to help underwrite an ipo. now they are trying to get more involved in direct listings. what do you hear from these conversations? stacey: they are trying to serve their customers. the banks are looking at how they can be helpful and provide resources to their customers. they are very engaged in the process. we've seen them take a real
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leadership position on how we can use this as an additional tool they can offer their customers. and that is what we are seeing happen. taylor: you recently are getting more tech companies on the nyse. which previously they were listing on the nasdaq, because you modernize your rules, allowing nonprofitable companies to list. but was that a good decision? do you consider yourself an enabler and some of those unprofitable companies? stacey: many people do not realize that the new york stock exchange did not allow companies profitable to list and many of today's companies over the past several years have come to the public markets prior to being profitable. we modernize our standards and since then the vast majority of tech proceeds have been raised on the new york stock exchange. but the question you are getting at is are those companies good for the market? it is very important for markets, it's not unusual for them to be pre-profitable when
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they list, but then have a pathway to profitability. how are they going to get there? investors can share in that process and they do become profitable. we have seen that with tons of companies. taylor: finally here, how has wework change the market? stacey: i think there's a conversation. i will never talk about specific companies but there are conversations the market is having around governance in companies, around the valuations of private markets versus public market. this is not about opne specific -- one specific company. it is about trends in the market. when there are fewer investors determining the valuations of a company. can value, there are tons of smart people in the private market space. nobody can value the company the way the public market does. that is real value the public markets give to investors and employees and all main street investors as well. stacey that was
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2019 we sawping up another unicorn hit the public markets in june. a messaging company's went for a direct listing instead of a traditional ipo. it has seen it stocks plum it by 17%. emily chang spoke with the cofounder and ceo stewart butterfield in june. >>. there is no need to raise primary capital $800 million on the balance sheet. we did get more freedom and how we tell the story. in addition to our road show. instead of only having a
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road show in private rooms were investor day livestream and make the video available for everyone. unly: slack is still profitable. how far out is profitability? >> o ur primary focus is to invest in growth. on as we continue to build the new category, that will be our focus for a long time. but we have also gone -- said to investors is to drive towards cash breakeven. we have confidence in the strong -- ability of our company. emily: how much of a priority would you say that profitability is? >> i think i don't want to get too technical about it. there is a lot of deferred revenue. bringing in saying, more cash than we put out on an
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ongoing basis is a priority because it allows us to control our destiny. contumely findwe new opportunities to investor growth of business. we do not need a lot of free cash flow but a litte. le. emily: what are some new sources of revenue you are expected to tap? >> what you are seeing is we are making great traction with customers. we've gotten 95,000 new customers today. 100 ke 635 customers over in revenue. we are scaling. we are very optimistic about the opportunity. we believe it is a huge new category to be built. we'll focus on it. peloton reported a narrower loss than expected in november. the ceo spoke to bloomberg's caroline hyde. >> we are profitable in our u.s.
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bike business. we got to profitability. we are still profitable and now we are investing in new future growth drivers, international, the u.k., canada, germany next month. we are investing in our digital business, new content facilities in new york and london. these are investors. but our core business is profitable. the headline coming out this morning, triple digit topline ebidta nd single digit loss. closing losses from q1 last year. we are feeling great about not just the prior decision of growth but for us it's also prioritizing profitability. it's not either/or because the fundamental model is gorgeous. >> as a public company you know that analysts can be relentless in asking for more and asking for something new. we have a nexar size -- have an exercise bike.
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we have a treadmill. what type of services do have to expand on what you have already built? >> to your question we have a lot of things planned in the coming years. >> and you can tell us all that, right? >> our core bike business is profitable. it will be profitable over the next couple years in the u.k., and canada. and our tread business is subscale from a manufacturing perspective. it has lower margins, but as it does to scale, the margins and unit economics go up as the cost gets sold down to the manufacturing scale. we don't need to launch more products or more geography to get to. we may choose to invest in those things over time but it is not something needed for profitability. >> do you have to lower prices? you have free trials. how fears is competition? -- how fierce is competition?
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>> for better or worse right now we do not feel like we have a like-minded competitor, a tech- based, well-capitalized company. it is always been a question of, should you lower the price on the peloton bike? ago, it has years been incredibly academic to think about lowering the price. when you are doubling in size every year, including last growth, it3% topline is somewhat academic to think about lowering price when you are making, selling them as fast as you can make them at the current price point. we fell pretty good -- feel pretty good. the value our members see when it buy one for $58. and you divide it by two. because your partner also rides. $39 a month for the subscript and. for a, that is less than $50 for adults.
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