♪ taylor: i'm taylor riggs in san francisco, in for emily chang, and this is "bloomberg technology." the tech sector dominates in 2019. how will it perform in 2020? predictionsvery with cfra are back under the microscope as the carmaker starts local deliveries in china. we will have the latest. vice president of equity card controversy. though touted as a widely research john freeman.

successful launch, the apple his calls for 2020. google undergoing -- oracle card issued by goldman sachs hit some snags in 2019. undergoing a big transformation. how do you see facebook entering what is a pretty crowded cloud first, our top story. business? tech continues to be the john: it is crowded at the outperform or in 2019 with the application layer. nasdaq on track for its best you have salesforce and all of those different software service year since 2013. 35%, justndex is up companies. with what amazon does, the aws 3% shy of 20's banner year. service, there were really only ofis largely due to the -- three competitors, at least in north america. microsoft as newer -- microsoft 2013's banner year. aws, and google cloud. it is rgely due to apple and above the chipmakers. i am showing on my terminal i think the thing that chart about divergence, winners distinguishes these guys is obviously they have done a lot and losers. of innovative stuff, but it is the clear winners, scale. facebook, amazon, google, and apple and facebook. up 55%. 85%, facebook microsoft operate data center others up closer to 20 or 30%. infrastructures, cloud infrastructure, that are orders

still great gains. of magnitude bigger than anyone else. that is the ticket to entry. overall, higher. 2019 really the year of record i know they have discussed it. highs. the last record high overall and just makes total sense, and it would give them regulatory back in july but those two protection. companies really pulling away they would be the last entrant with the lead, apple and into a market of three players, facebook. apple putting in record high they would be the fourth, so after record high. , youd that buying power they would probably avoid a lot asthe regulatory scrutiny have to think it had something to do with 2018. between octoberndecember opposed to entering the consumer 2018, apple fell about 40%. space. it seems like low hanging fruit. taylor: you'd about the other this year, they preannounced three entrants in that market. early in january and investors went all in even though another one of your calls is technicals looked a little bit shaky. that google cloud will make you have to think that some of significant roadway into that. those traders felt it would be a have they keep up with amazon and microsoft -- how do they pretty sure bet. facebook last year was a real disaster. keep up with amazon and they had a bumpy road, then of microsoft? john: i think scale she win the course that horrible second quarter, the trading day in game.

july. google has differentiated -- last year, down 25%. scale really wins the game. another case of the stock down google has differentiated to use more than some of the peers. for machinemework those two stocks in particular. learning, ai basically. taylor: earlier, we were showing microsoft and amazon are involved in that too. a chart of the gains in market cap. tensor flow is very popular how much of the total increase can be attributed to the market among developers and the cap gains? abigail: apple, this year, developer community is always a great leading indicator of what gaining more than half $1 is going to be successful and what is going to be adopted. trillion. there are not a lot of publicly traded companies out there that taylor: oracle splitting up are even worth half $1 trillion. that stock is almost 5% of the hardware and software. john: i think it is time. there have been a couple of s&p 500. decades of acquisitions that the other four stocks, when you put those together, about 13%, were really targeted at the old 14%. client server sort of world a pretty good chunk of the gains where you wanted to give an for the index coming from some enterprise customer the of those big names. he did not have microsoft on the database, operating system, board but that is an -- you do everything.

that was effective. not have microsoft on the board but in the cloud world where but that is another big piece. most of these enterprises are now trying to outsource their you do technicals better infrastructure to the google and e, thenand microsoft azur than anyone and this is the rsi. is there any concern we are overvalued? abigail: the faang on top does value proposition turns around and it hurts oracle. not look to parabolic. they are not able to do deals on it has been a long time since an the database side because the all-time high. application side competitors get rsi, momentum worried, and vice versa. i think there is negative indicator, what makes it synergy that they can unlock a lot of value by doing so. concerning, because a lot of taylor: we will have you back in technicians do not mind if it goes above 70. even if it goes 80 or 90. a year at least to find out. coming up, we continue our look the thing they are looking for back at the best of "bloomberg is higher highs. if it goes distinctly below 70, technology" 2019. that could be a signal that you we will hear from apple could see some bearish momentum, cofounder steve wozniak on his gripes with the apple card. some consolidation of these huge gains. this is bloomberg. ♪ taylor: talk to me about tesla. a series of record highs,

pulling back from that today. analysts talking about some concerns around demand. abigail: tesla is extraordinary. it has more than nine lives. it is the best performing of the auto stocks. this year alone, at one point, down 50% year to date. since the june low, up 140%. the bulls and the bears, the huge sentiment really shown the stock. traders shown that this could be hit by some of the delivery numbers. they are saying they may not make the number relative to deliveries for 20, plus profitability could weigh a little bit on the fourth quarter in terms of when those numbers are reported. tesla on the year coming back from that huge deficit. that thenet-net

coverage for this company and its stocks seemed to be pretty incredulous and i don't want to seem talking, but a little -- to say mocking, but a little bit of that. bloomberg's abigail doolittle. i want to stick with tesla. a major milestone. the first 15 units of model three sedans assembled at tesla's new shanghai plant delivered to company employees on monday. chart i want to look at a i am showing inside my terminal. you know the story, all the bulls and bears are banking on china for tesla. tesla in that market? craig: you see the red bars in that chart really signify just how much people are expecting china to sort of carry the water

for the general ev market. that is generally the case for tesla as well, and the reason why people have been so optimistic about this company. when you look at the rally, it is a significant portion of the reason why investors are growing so bullish with this company. they were willing to give elon musk a little bit of benefit of the doubtwhen they able to unloe china market is sort of a bet being made here. it is a little bit unclear at this point just how much this will have a significant effect on tesla because we are not seeing the price of the model three drop significantly yet. willompany, we may find,

be able to bring the price down for the model three once it is able to localize a little bit the production of that car and taylor: this is "bloomberg technology." the sedans are more sort of i'm taylor riggs in san localized in that market. francisco. bloomberg was first to report that goldman sachs was being investigated for alleged taylor: are those production discrimination over its apple card algorithm. targets realistic this time around? craig: a lot of it is because of apple co-founder steve wozniak executioness of the complaining about unequal treatment of their wives ignited that elon musk tends to make. a firestorm. we spoke with wozniak from san this is a ceo that has talked about early on being able to jose. >> there was a lot of talk about make 1000 of these cars per week, at some point getting to gender bias but i didn't any 3000. he has talked about the idea that the long-term demand that. i no that he apple is the least picture for tesla in china could discriminatory of all the be around 5000 a week. companies. we're the only big company in the united states, i think that, the analysts at cowan who we guarantees equal pay for equal talked about earlier, a little work by gender soft that was out more on the bearish side,

skeptical that the company will of the thing and it was goldman be able to hit those kind of sachs and they've listened, levels. we have seen the ev market in maybe because i was involved. china struggle the last 5, 6 i don't like to get special months as a result of that privilege but they listened and they're going to make changes. pullback. taylor: we heard from the i don't believe looking into general manager of tesla in thal rich -- algorithm or china on their goals. changing it is the problem. >> our goal is to sell all it's somehow being able to get vehicles manufactured at our individual attention in cases shanghai factory. we are confident in achieving the algorithm misses. that. >> when you're trying to get i wonder, what is the customer support for a company this size it can be really hard. downside risk, that may be the you said it's too big. were you -- were you talking bulls are wrong. about goldman sachs or am or this is a company that both? >> i'm talking about all the large company. has not paid a significant apple is really good because you amount of money for the factory that they built so quickly. sort of and under the radar get human support in the apple with the geniuses if you have development last week. apple care so apple does a very good job of making good

was the company securing spurement available. financing? i decided a long time ago sexf that having a good product isn't ofs is a they are only sort paying off as opposed to even as valuable as having good something they are paying for support for whatever you get. already. >> you said you were a little meanwhile, you have a company surprised by how many attention that -- and musk, a company that those tweets got. you also mentioned the response has endless ambitions, has you got from gold than sacks. already moved on to the next did you hear from apple as well? factory he wants to build outside berlin. >> we didn't -- i don't think we heard from apple directly. for this rally to be they were contacting my wife who sustainable, musk will be able had contacted them way back months ago and i guess they had to deliver some sustainable earnings, something they have not been able to do up to this her number to call. point. taylor: thank you for joining they said they're going to have the standard number by the end us. netflix says the most popular of the week. now they're telling us by releases on its streaming tomorrow, i guess, it's going to service this year were things it go through to spoumplet people. produced. the idea is to get to humans and moviethem, the comedy you can't expect instant "murder mystery" and the new solutions because there might be too much demand and not enough season of "stranger things." supply for a while. but i'm glad. netflix is now relying more than they're talking exactly right, ever on its own programming to the way apple would handle

keep viewers loyal. ofing up, from the big four something like there this, we're going to spoumplet the customers. taylor: that was apple tech and more, we will have the co-founder steve wozniak. charts that show you what for apple's response, the c.e.o. matters most. shared their response at the if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio, the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s., on sirius xm. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ bloomberg new economy forum in beijing. >> we're very excited about the launch of the credit card this partnership with apple has allowed us to offer a credit card that we think gives consumers more information and flexibility to do more digitally and the launch of it by any standard has been the most successful co-branded credit card launch to date. there is no gender bias in our process for extending credit. we don't ask whether when someone applies if they're a man or a woman or if they're married. in addition, when we set up our credit processes, as is required under law in the united states,

everyone brings in a third-party consultant to make sure through -- there are no unintended biases in that process. you used the word black box. actually, any individual that applies for the card we can look at the exact specific characteristics of why a credit decision is made and communicate with them about that. we're going to increase the transparency and continue to work that >> so there is no bias? >> there is no bias. there's no question that different applicants can get different results and that can be for a variety of reasons but we're working and focused on making sure people understand that when they apply individually for credit, there are a whole voirment of factors that go into it. jebleder is not one of them and we're working over time to deliver more transparency to clients. that's one of the things we like

about this credit card. if you don't like your credit line, you can call someone, talk to them, give them more information and there can potentially be a change. we're committed to working with apple to improve that transpapers si. non, : that was david sol goldman sachs chairman and c.e.o. the chairman of europe's largest bank says the two are superb twined but that regulatory researches must be addressed. reportedly will we had an exclusive interview in november. >> what is a bank? does a bank just take dem sits have to pay almost $17 million and make loans? of course. but we do payments. to its co-ceos if they are fired we have always, and our strategy or leave for any reason. -- our strategy since i arrived submitted heade is to be a responsible bank and of a offer by softbank. grow loyal customers. loyal customers, if i ask you, eric, who is your bank? the themes of technology for you can have one bank in your

2019, from unchecked data head even though you might have collection to apple shifting to five accounts, am i correct? >> that's true. >> so you're like 99% of a service model. americans and most people on the cfra's in washington, planet. for that to be the case, i need to know and you that's based on vice president of research. data soft my question is why one of my favorite charts was should data be regulated, i'm the continued frustration talking about europe, in a different way. if you're called a bank or if between tech management and the employees. you're called something else? what have you noticed about the you as a customer shousk able to increasing tension between the ask me to share my data but vice big tech management employees? -->> this is a versa also from other players so not a new issue but it has i can give you a loan at 6:00 -- become louder in the past few 6% instead of 7% soft i'm saying years, particularly with some of we need a fair playing field and the large companies like facebook, google, microsoft, no distinctions between sectors. , is is not just between banks outsizedho have an it's between other companies. impact on the world. employees can turn -- concerned this is the issue we need to sort out. about internal issues and >> some of the big u.s. banks external issues in terms of how have started forming pims with their products are used in the tech companies to friveled

financial services. world, whether it is will santander do that too? environmental destruction, concerns about working with >> we've been doing that wife government agencies, harmful effects of products like social partnered with cabbage, rid l, media. taylor: at what point if at all many american companies. we wants to take these companies do you incorporate this into and services. hen we don't aprove a loan, we your fundamental analysis? john: for me, what i like to send it to ripple. look at as i am gauging the we need everybody else to be trajectories of these companies, open soft my question to you, and in this case, sort of that what is a critical management versus employee infrastructure in the digital equilibrium, look at the stage? isn't a device a critical unemployment rate in boston, silicon valley. infrastructure? >> you could make that argument. it is incredibly low. >> digital wallet. probably more than any other you know how many have one in time that i remember, perhaps the world today? more than two billion. since the 1990's. when you have a digital wallet, you have had the techies, the who should be part of that programmers, the people who are arrangement? is it just the user and the working, actually have a lot of phone provider or should it be leverage, a lot more leverage than they did i think whoever is issuing the card? these are the things we need to

historically. there are things they can do to make sure we have clarity on. enact positive change. d the -- was ana i think at the end of the day, obviously if it is measured and reasonable, it can be a very botin. a conversation with the positive thing. taylor: another chart as i co-founders of grab. we look ahead to the future of scroll down the list was the the singapore-based tech rise of tictoc, the headwinds, company. this is bloomberg. the government scrutiny of tictoc, are they outweighing the tailwinds in european? another issue with tiktok is that they are spending a lot on advertising to get onto people's phones. you have to give them credit for making this kind of addictive short video app that many millions of people around the world have really fallen in love with. it has given us some pure moments of joy, maybe one of the few moments of joy in 2019. taylor: as you take a look at

tiktok and some of the other big tech, the regulatory scrutiny, antitrust rhetoric, how does this impact your view of tech? googleor facebook and specifically, regulation is the biggest risk. it is really the only risk that 2020, 2021.ink for otherwise, those businesses are on rails and fundamentally doing extremely well. the big difference i see is how the companies manage the risk. on that front, google is doing much better i think than facebook. facebook still needs to learn how to deal with washington, be more proactive. i think the libra cryptocurrency effort right after the judiciary committee had come out and said, we will investigate social media

companies more about nefarious influence on elections, then just weeks later, they are announcing libra. i think that tick people off. we are hoping facebook kind of learns and follows in the footsteps of google about how to manage regulatory risk because it is coming, but it can be very mild. in terms of data privacy, in my opinion, it can actually be a clarifying moment for the market and actually boost the use of data, more of a data market. keeping of the users taylor: let's look at today's the privacy and control of the top tech calls. victor anthony raised prospects data that they don't want out there. i think we need more progress on that the stock will power that. through the regulatory risks in the third and final 2020. he boosted the price target to chart was amazon. they showed us this holiday $300 a share from $225. season that they are a logistics

company. given continued strong user what do you feel are amazon's growth, continued shared gains successes and blind spots? and progress on advertising shira: the logistics data point messenger. you mentioned is really crowd strike forecast strong instructive. growth for the cybersecurity it is not glamorous but you have stock in 2020. analyst alex henderson named the a company that, in a very short time, has transformed from one stock our anything best idea in security for 2020, reiterating a that is mostly reliant on package delivery companies to a price ng and a $92 company that now, at least by target. amazon's telling, is handling and tech stocks tumbled monday the majority of packages its self. after saying they may miss the that is a very fast turnaround. company's target this year as these are the kind of things we model three demand slumps. want large companies to do, to be able to fundamentally change we expect model three deliveries what they do. to be down compared to the prior at the same time, amazon uarter in the year ago period. strategies and product's come with enormous downsides. according to geffreye osborne. the company has been unwilling he wrote that in a note. in my view to reckon with those downsides. out 40% of singaporians have you have stories about the

company prioritizing speed and efficiency over the safety of poor access to financial companies. drivers and the public, when you but a singapore put drivers on roads who are telecommunications company is under extreme pressure to teaming you feel to apply for a deliver packages, enormous digital marketing license before volumes of packages very he year's end. quickly. you have similar stories about working conditions in amazon singapore is granting at least ve licenses to boost warehouses and some of the lax standards about products sold by third-party merchants. participation. and speaking of grab, hooi lan tan -- taylor: shira ovide thank you for joining us. john freeman, you will be sticking with us for your 2020 tech preview. bloomberg technology is spoke to our reporter in may. livestreaming on twitter. follow quick take on twitter. >> it's not just soft -- if you think about it, in fact, the this is bloomberg. ♪ first $3 billion was raised from toyota to hyundai to booking to

microsoft. pingon, oppenheimer. we're very, very blessed with the global best names one can imagine. >> but why continue to raise money rather than going to the public markets? >> because our super ambitions nd involves a much broader services to our customers. those are the nevpblgts that our partners each and they're like we understand, we want you to do it. thft, they're encouraging us to go bigger, bolder and better. >> tell me about your relationship with -- you've said he's told you can have unlimited capital from him. > no, that means unlimited dilution. [laughter] we're extremely close and we're very blessed to have a mentor

and friend and partner in this journey but i will not right now need that capital or want that capital today because well enough capital to invest in what we need today. >> so ling, you surpassed a billion in revenue last year. you're on track to double that this year. where is the growth going to come from? >> i think the biggest trajectory and growth area we're seeing is in asia and we're doubling and tripling down there as well. >> how far away is profitability? in seven markets, seven verticals, it's already profitable. for us it's important that we build and create more value. it's easy to say you're the most popular app, so just chip. but hey, we're the single most popular app but there are lots

of competitors so we need to make sure we deliver more value so that we earn the right of customers to keep keeping us as the single most popular a.m. >> they can't say when it will be profitable and that has been a problem from investors. are you learning from that? >> it's different. first of all, uber, the majority f its business is rides plus obviously fooled delivery today as well as ride hailing. the point is we see ourselves, our competitors more richer as a super app. >> so will grab go public? >> right now -- right now we have no plans to go i.p.o. we don't need to, hence that very big round. choosing long-term striegics, again, as part of our tech for good, working on co-nation building. when we talk about nation

building, it's not five months. it's the next five, 10, 15, 20 years. >> given the u.s.-china trade tensions and manufacturing that seems to be leaving china moving to southeast asia. is that an opportunity for you? >> i can talk about the states in china. both regions are lookingal southeast asia as huge potential growth areas. i think everybody sees southeast asia as a region of growth for the future and it's not short term. it's going to be for the next few decades and that's the growth we want to help drive and lead in growth for the rest of the country. >> we've seen many founding teams fall apart. there's blood on the floor. you guys seem to have a great working rhythm. how do you maintain that? >> we have an amazing relationship because we share that foundation of values system and we share that passion for

what we believe we can contribute back to the region and we do know it's unique and hence why we cherish and value it even more. at the same time well know there are more possibilities for others like us to equally find the same passion. we ep courage it. we've launched something called grab flolssi. our way to help other start-ups in the region trying to find skim. we were able to stand on the shoulders of giants and we're hoping we can give them a little boost that they all deserve as well. taylor: that was grab co-founder ling tan.n and hooi we'll take a closer look at the

multimillion industry of bug bowen tacking. that conversation next. this is bloomberg.

taylor: tommy devoss used to break into websites ill historically but now uses his hacking skills to earn an honest living. he's now earned more than $1 million, enough to afford two very expensive drugs. known professionally as dog bounlt hunting. >> this is a classic sky skye nissan skyline. it may look like just another car but only one of these makes ou an instant star among car inenthusiasts. she so rich, he has two of these. he doesn't have a 9:00 to 5:00 job like the west -- rest of us.

but he gets paid for breaking into web assignments. >> my name is tommy devoss and i'm a hacker. >> the businesses tommy hacks are headquartered in cities like new york and san francisco. but tommy works out of suburban virginia. all the hacking he does is legitimate. in arrangements called bug bowen programs, companies like verizon and general mothers pay him to look for security holes in their system so they can fix them before the bad guys get in. >> when you find one of the ones you know is going to be like a $5,000 or $10,000 payout, you can feel your heart racing faster and it's just like doing drugs. i don't want to go into detail on comparison with that but you get that same sort of rush. >> for some time now, tech companies have ployed legitimate hackers systems

but over the last decade or so, bug bowen hunting has -- bounty hunting has become much more organized. the prize money has now gotten big enough to make this a career. what's the most money you've made on a bulge? >> a single report is -- 20,000. >> what about in a single day? >> $160,000 in october of last year and i think that only took three or four hours' worth of actually working. >> if you were to average it out, how many hours a week would you say you work? >> five to 10. >> five to 10 hours a week? [laughter] and how many money have you earned over the last year? >> this year? $636,000. >> what do you think is the thing that makes you so good at it? >> just the fact that i've been oing it for so long.

>> i thought tom was going to be something like a lawyer or a doctor. tommy was very, very smart and he was some ahead of everybody else in the class. >> in our classes you could play on the computers when you finished all your work. i'd finish my work in 10 minutes and then just go play on the computer. >> it didn't take long for tommy to fall in love with the internet and one day he stumbled into a chat room where people talked about their illegal hacks. they taught him their tricks and he started hacking for fun. the first time he got caught was when he was in high school. he was expeled, spent a few weeks in juvenile detention and was ordered to stay away from computers. but he didn't listen. >> we got into nasa computers, the u.s. courts, department of energy.

anybody that had huge budgets that should have had secure systems but didn't. >> and he was caught once again, but in time as an adult. >> the judge told me if i get arrested for computers again and come to his court he was going to give me life in prison. >> for most people, bug bunty hunting is still more of a side gig than their primary source of income. you get paid only when you're the first to report a bug and even those payouts don't amount to very much. on one platform called hacker one, the vast majority have earlied less than $10,000 over time but if you're really good, you can make a lot more. out of hacker one's 500,000 contributors, tommy is among just six people who have earned more than $1 million. as more and more of the world moves online, cyberattacks are

only going to grow in frequency and sophistication and the havoc they'll wreak on our lives and that means we're going to need a hackers testing our systems to make sure we're safe. >> the fact that we're securing the internet, it's a nice side effect but i do it for the money. taylor: that's part to have next jobs episode, a mini documentary seres. you can watch the rest on bloomberg.com. speaking of hacking, microsoft is -- a group of hackers in north crea. the group has been breaking into microsoft accounts and stealing sensitive information by impersonating the companies. they allegedly targeted government employees, human org university statue members and o

platform. it had been suspended for hours after several users complained her profile was fake. stone went on to twitter to la bhenlt her suspension, leading to bumble unblocking her and telling shown -- stone we hope you find your honey. that's it for this edition of "bloomberg technology." check us out on technology and follow our global breaking news at think tank on twitter. twitter-- tick tock and in is bloomberg. ♪

>> good morning. i am paul allen in sydney, where markets are just opened. >> good evening from bloomberg's global headquarters in new york. i am shery on. >> and i am sophie kamaruddin in hong kong. will come today rick eri -- daybreak: asia. ♪ paula: in our top stories this new year's eve, it is a done deal. white house street advisor peter navarro says phase one of the u.s.-china trade agreement will be signed in january. china's official pmi numbers out later, as president xi prepares