tv Bloomberg Technology Bloomberg January 27, 2020 5:00pm-6:00pm EST
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♪ taylor: i am taylor riggs in san francisco in for emily chang, and this is "bloomberg technology." coming up, big tech earnings tumble out all week. , amazon reporting. we start with apple. searching for the cure. biotech may be the key to help cure the potentially deadly coronavirus. we will speak to a company on
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the front lines of finding a vaccine. taking a bite out of competition. tictoc competitor bite. first, our top story, the s&p 500 declining the most in almost a month with energy and technologies leading the losses due to concerns about the impact of a major virus that originated in china. it comes at the same time as the s&p goes into the busiest week yet for earnings, with some of the largest tech names reporting. joining us to discuss, craig johnson. thank you for joining us. i wanted to talk about today's action. stocks off about 4%, the nasdaq off about 2%. do we expect a bigger correction to start happening?
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craig: i think this market is one where we will get a bit of a deeper correction. we put out a piece earlier this month and titled it, i will melt with you, and of a play on the words for me popular song back in the 1980's. from our perspective, all the conditions were right to see this kind of 5% to 10% correction in the market. a little bito be deeper of a pullback. i would not be surprised to see a pullback toward the 200 day moving average. look for some more profit-taking. taylor: i want to look at a chart i am showing inside my terminal. we have talked a lot about how valuations were very full, particularly since the stocks had run up 60% last year. still, over 19 times.
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do we see it fully valued at these levels? craig: i still think we look fairly fully valued. we had negative earnings and q3 and we are on a pace for negative earnings here in q4. earningsts you have an recession starting to unfold. i still think there has to be a deeper correction. if you look at our projections of 3600, that has to see some earnings pickup to get there. the earnings multiple, i am not we are going to see 23, 24 times earnings to get to that level. we will need to see earnings pickup or this market will see a deeper pullback. it interesting in your notes that within tech, it is not one shoe fits all. you are overweight tech but
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underweight communications and media. you are not a broad-based bowl on all things tech. what do you like and what do you not like? craig: we take the entire market and put it into a normal distribution. ,hen we go through that process we are not seeing a strong of a relative strength trend. like verizon.gs they are not really putting up great relative performance. but it is one of the best places to be. in the technology sector, icy lots of outperformance happening in the semiconductors and lots of things in the drive space, such as western digital. i can kind of pick apart these sectors. i am seeing some clear relevant strength winners and some clear
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relevant strength losers. taylor: i want to get into some of the individual companies reporting. apple being the first, coming out tuesday before the bell. on a log chart, it does indeed look parabolic, as you mentioned. from my perspective, i think the answer is yes. when you look at this chart on apple, the one thing that strikes me, this reminds me of january of 2018. enough is enough. charts like caterpillar, 3m, boeing, all going parabolic at that time. they have had very meaningful corrections. i look at apple and other tech leaders, they are clearly great, great companies. i love all the apple products even though my wife is tired about -- tired of hearing about
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me buying all the apple products. i just don't think it is a great stock at this time. i think you could get a deeper correction. microsoft,zon and sentiment has shifted from amazon and the web services, not cofactor, the cloud business, it relates to amazon and microsoft. craig: if you look at the charts of both of these. amazon, that chart has really been consolidating sideways now for the better part of the last 12 months or so on a relative basis. i like what i am seeing with microsoft. the trend is much stronger with microsoft. the cloud business at amazon and microsoft, those of been the drivers. but it looks like microsoft is moving ahead.
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from a chart perspective, we are better off and generating better alpha with microsoft right now than we are with amazon. taylor: he mentioned parabolic. i think there is another company you have done some recent work on. that is tesla. the rate of change has come people off guard. what drives tesla forward? is it the fundamentals? i am not sure it is the fundamentals. you are getting a lot of hype into this company. a lot of people believe that tesla is truly going to change the world. you look at the chart, that is fine. but here is another example of a parabolic chart. if we look at this and say, it is a great company, but is this where you put fresh, new money to work. for me, the answer is no. i think we really have to
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distinguish between the fundamentals, the tech knology, and where do you put your hard-earned dollars to work? tesla is fine. you have to wait for correction at that price. that itapid lift off an does not look like it is sustainable. we will not see the stock grow to the moon at this point. think people think more and more of the dominance of the s&p 500 is large names. does it concern you about how dominant the big tech companies are within the broader markets? craig: the answer is absolutely yes. coming back to apple, most portfolio managers cannot own a full position of apple in their portfolio. risk management will come in and 6% ofou cannot own five,
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just apple. they will buy up to the limit they can buy, then they will turn around and start buying individual stocks in that ecosphere for apple and build up their position to kind of create a proxy position for apple. when apple reports results, if those results are not great and you already have a parabolic stock, a lot of expectations are built into it, then you will see many names inside of tech correct. people have been trying to play the components for apple and the suppliers as kind of a proxy to get exposure. taylor: craig johnson of piper sandler, thank you for joining us. coming up, containing the coronavirus. will speak to the cofounder of one biotech company racing for a vaccine. if you like bloomberg news, check us out on the radio, the bloomberg app, bloomberg.com, and in the u.s., on sirius xm. this is bloomberg.
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to come up with remedies. one of the firms trying to do just that is inovio. last week, the philadelphia-based biotech firm received $9 million in funding joining us is the cofounder, dr. david weiner. he was named as one of the top 40 most influential vaccine scientists. talk about what you are doing with that $9 million grant to help find a vaccine. >> thank you so much. is in the -- is immediately working to set up a group, a coalition to work together to develop a vaccine candidate that can be moved into crime -- into clinical trials rapidly. has done this three times
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recently in outbreaks, including ebola virus outbreak a few anothero, and mers, coronavirus. and the sica vaccine. zika vaccine. taylor: you mentioned ebola, mers, zika what did you learn from those that you could potentially apply to this? on dnaner: inovio works that is developing sequences that mimics a part of these pathogens and through those trial systems i talked about, from ebola, that took about 18 , through develop
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clinical trials and into the clinic. mers was about 11 months. zika was among the fastest ever, just under seven months from no program and into the clinic. us about immune responses. they all had no significant adverse events. they all had protective theoretical levels of immune responses in those studies. taylor: given that this is a technology show, we often wonder about the technology behind it that you have used to develop some of those other vaccines as well. side -- how doou
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you decide what is effective and what is not. dr. weiner: our experience through the two most recent. at down helpdesk selection and translation. hasprogram that inovio developed, a nonreplicating, non-spreading platform, which mimics a small piece of the pathogen, really has gotten a lot of experience. now, we have a lot of confidence in moving these forward rapidly, whato test them and study immune responses are directed against what regions that are likely susceptible, therefore making the most contribution. taylor: it is interesting, china was working on some of their hiv
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drugs to perhaps use some of those to help treat or provide an antidote to some of this. kinda faster in their response this time around. what do you make of the initial response? think, justi fast they sepi, how have jumped in and funded groups to make a prototype and first approximation of a vaccine that we can test right away, only a few weeks from the initial cases receiving attention. that is quite a difference from the past. working together with teams to try to accelerate moving that into a clinic. but i think the interest in different approaches, drug development, reapplying drugs that may be in other situations
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is quite heartening. what is thender, best outcome for this in your opinion? are you looking for a cure, antidote? what would be the best and result? d result? dr. weiner: i think the best result would be similar to programs that normally take longer times. vaccines can prevent us seeing any manifestation of the disease when they work well. what we are doing here is applying a more rapid technology on a platform that is very rapid to see if we can get to that endpoint faster and provide a tool during this outbreak that people can test right away and hopefully impact this current outbreak, which would be a major help, and i am sure that is what all of the developers that you are mentioning are thinking right now.
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let's get it in, providing useful tool, and have it impact and perhaps prevent the spread and disease in this outbreak right away. taylor: through the technology you are using, how do you determine if this outbreak has pandemic potential or not? do you have the technology to really study these outbreaks? dr. weiner: i think there are many people around the globe study and how fast it moves. you mentioned there were just under 3000 cases now reported and 80 deaths, which i think is interesting and lower than the coronavirus's. fast it spreads, that will be monitored and kept up-to-date by those global surveillance networks.
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taylor: one of the world's largest providers of electric scooter rentals is using wintertime to prep for expansion. they are acquiring a german rival for an undisclosed sum. $2.5 now valued at about billion. bernard will add employees in bird will addd -- employees in europe. retailer casper is seeking an ipo valuation at just over $744 million, a drop
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from its heyday of about $1.1 billion. the startup plans to sell 8.3 5 million shares for about 17 to $19 each. this makes the assessment short of that $1 billion needed to be a unicorn. casper popularized the so-called bed in a box industry. watchedss first closely ipo of the year, i want to bring in bloomberg's leanna baker. why the drop in valuation? andt is about a 30% drop has to do with timing. the wep was before worked about -- we work debacle and all these companies that did not impress public organ investors. -- public market investors. advisors are trying to tell a
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company, why don't you have a more conservative valuation? startupsnternet tech trying to go public as well. liana: we are still in january and have a long year ahead. we have all seen the advertisements, casper is everywhere. if it performs well, it could mean that companies like post rdash, they will see whether it is warm out there on the market to go public. taylor: everyone thinks that they have a website so they are a tech company because they want evaluation. is this a tech company or a mattress company? liana: you can definitely see that it is a tech related business. there is an r&d center, they are
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trying to develop new products. the company is investing in technologies. but at the end of the day, they make mattresses and they have opened retail stores across the country. it is in the eye of the beholder whether it is valued like a tech company or a consumer company. it harkens back to the meal kit craze. blue apron, hello fresh, where they tech companies or consumer companies? taylor: should would be heartened by the fact that revenue grew 20% and losses only group 5% in the same time. liana: there are some highlights. pretty good margins in the high 40% range. it does make any of these mattresses. retail locations, they say, are very profitable. it is making money, it is just right now not able to make a profit. it may never turn a profit.
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taylor: have they given us any and, could they be profitable if they wanted to? liana: investors may want to look at purple, one of their rivals, which went public a few years ago through eight reverse merger, and that company is profitable. i'm sure investors will want to look at that to have a model. taylor: i wanted to get your thoughts on another big story today. the rollback of the volcker rule means you can be a little bit more feet -- a little bit more lenient within the venture-capital world. more money flowing into vcs and startups, creating more lofty valuation. liana: this is just a new avenue for them to invest directly in venture capital funds. will goldman sachs be investing as much as softbank? probably not. but it is definitely something
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save up to $400 a year when you switch. plus, save even more with $150 off galaxy a70. click, call or visit a store today. ♪[music] is bloomberg technology, where we join bloomberg daybreak australia to bring you the latest in global news. let's take a look at the top global tech stories of the day. paul? >> thanks, taylor. as the coronavirus outbreak firms ines, global china make moves to protect their employees and limit the spread. automakers are evacuating workers and their families from wuhan, using chartered planes. retailers and restaurant chains, including mcdonald's and have also shut down several stores and warehouses in
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the region. volvo is counting on tripling sales of its hybrid models this to avoid paying european penalties. to car maker could pay up hundreds of millions of euros popular polluting but combustion s.u.v.'s. a fifth of all new cars sold in 2020 should be plug-ins or all electric compared with just 6.5% last year. french services company gemini secured enough shares to go ahead with its plan to take over paris-basedher engineering consulting firm. the c.e.o. said the ultron deal address an engineering shortage in europe. those are the top global stories that we're watching. you.ul, thank a new rival of tictoc has emerged. is no's predecessor stranger to fans of video-sharing apps.
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it was created by don hoffman, who cofounded vine in 2012 and sold it to twitter later that year. rocketed to the top of and stillp store maintains a spot. joining us is tim, in new york change. let's -- for a change. it's great to have you in the studio. saw twitter having to shelf vine because they couldn't make it profitable. how will byte be any different? >> that's the thing with vine, a year.n twitter took it over and kind of tried to run it but it never worked out. one of the reason it's considered that vine was shut down is they couldn't monetize it. the people running vine were a little bit opposed to running so forth.ds and so eventually it just kind of died a slow, painful death. still really strong in people's hearts and minds. a lot of people have a certain nostalgia for vine so -- it was originally called
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v2, in alpha mode last year. hitas delayed and now it's the streets, so to speak, under the very interesting name of byte. thatse let's remember tictoc, their biggest rival, parent company is called bytedance. think that is not a coincidental name. >> the name cannot be a coincidence. they trying to be a real competitor here through the name alone? fact that wee very sit here and mention the fact that they are almost the same really very similar name is the kind of thing they're looking for. toy're looking for people remember vine with nostalgia but also think of tictoc and is really suchh a strong app now, around the world. it's one of those few examples chinese company having a really big impact overseas, especially in north america, important market. so the naming, well, maybe it's a coincidence, maybe it's not, people are talking about it. the formats between byte and little bita
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different but there's a lot of similarities. i think what we'll find is consumers will be using both at the same time and over time, they'll have a preference to one or the other, in the same way that people tended to have a snap over for instagram. the other thing that's important to remember about byte is that to get keying content creators. so the battle between tictoc and byte to try and get those key creators on will be very intense. >> so what is hoffman's aim in bringing this back? in the guidelines, they keep they have athat modest budget. what does this mean? are they really trying to make this, or is it just nostalgia? >> there is certainly that feeling that vine was operate. when it went away, people were really kind of heartbroken. it's kind of an older demographic. big onple who are really tictoc probably don't even remember the vine era, although
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enough, they predecessor to tictoc, they bought off musically. very similar age but in terms of tictoc, it'sf pretty young. >> what are the implications for u.s.? in the they're trying to search for a revamp. c.e.o. to help their image, not be seen as a company owned by another company based in beijing. is tictoc really nervous about this new competition? certainly inknow, the early days. but i think there's a counterintuitive way to look at it. that is if tictoc comes under the microscope about being so dominant in america, having so much control over user data and turn and andy can say, hey, we're not the only ones in the game. there are others around, new competitors coming along. quite often when you look at it itm a regulatory standpoint, actually helps to have a solid competitor out there.
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it will pressure them to increase rates that they pay content providers but if they're the regulatory framework, i think it might actually be a good thing for bytedance and tictoc. >> is the older demographic of why its of the reasons interface is so simple as compared to tictoc? know's too early really to what the demographic for byte will be. it's basically a week old. would certainly say there's probably room in that higher demographic, and we're talking like 25 and above. >> right. >> i do think there is room for both. so i think that they will probably find the demographic that works for them. you.ank to bloomberg's tim. much more ahead, so stay with us. is bloomberg. ♪
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>> the official twitter accounts for more than a dozen nfl teams have been hacked, less than a before the super bowl. a group called our mind claims responsibility for the breach, on the greenweet bay packers' account page. the group has previously been hacks,to other twitter including c.e.o., jack dorsey's account. spokeswomana confirmed the nfl hacking and says the company has locked the accounts and is investigating further. now, this week marks the launch of bloomberg green, using data reporting to illustrate the scale of climate change. and now we're looking at how employees aren't shying away in their fight with management over the company's climate policies. time, it was more than 350 workers putting their names to calling out amazon for not doing enough to cut ties companies. fuel writing things like, it is
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unconscionable to to tract trying tols while silence employees to speak out. gomicrosoft can do it, carbon negative, why can't we? joining me in studio now, what this fight going on? break it down for us. organizings started more than a year ago to try to push amazon, which up to that been very't transparent about their environmental goals, to really do more. we've seen amazon step up and take many recommendations to heart but these employees are escalating their conflict, listen, there's much more to be done if we're going to be a truly climate-forward company. >> amazon saying they've been trying to do some. they say they pledge to be carbon-neutral by 2040. the employees clearly not saying that's enough. done enough,t especially when you look at other tech companies that are making similar pledges? certainly the activist opinion. if you talk to folks, they say more avenuesitely
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amazon could pursue. amazon's cloud computing division still provides services oil and gas drillers. so there's certainly more on that laundry list, if you look bewhat the wish list would for the company. >> it's interesting, as we talked to microsoft, he made a only to be carbon neutral but then to be carbon negative and reduce or take out the carbon that they had omitted out of the atmosphere in x-amount of years. do you see amazon now feeling more and more pressure to do to make similar steps as other employees now, other companies have put more pressure on them. >> it certainly ups the ante. what amendol amazon would say, they're very different businesses. amazon will fly packages across more sensitiver
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than what microsoft does. they've said they want to get rid of greenhouse emissions i 2040. >> talk to me about those more specific challenges. we think of amazon,amazon's main principle here is customer obsession, right? that, the same-day shipping, three-day shipping. 12 different items in 12 different boxes. how has amazon made progress on that? >> you're right. they face a huge challenge, because their priority is to get as what you want as quickly you can ask for it, i suppose, which traditionally has not been compatible with green initiatives. so amazon, their first big instead of is to electrify their those packages to customers. but i think there's a lot more to come on how they're going to exactly get there. >> and you mentioned a lot of the oil and gas industry as well. as well mentioned in some of the complaints that the employees were posting online, specifically about the oil and gas industry. workingmazon currently
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with them? what would the employees like to see? >> so amazon's cloud group, web services, like the rest of the industry, is providing services to big oil and gas drillers. would have them sever that relationship entirely. amazon would say, listen, we operations are more efficient than what these companies use today. the activists would point out, that's still in the service on getting more oil and gas on the ground. about the cloud contract that they lost to microsoft, cloud contract where you see more tensions between management and employees? the employees are saying, we don't want to help them out with this. management saying we're gonna fight because we want to do it anyways. where does that put us in the tension between management and employees? >> it's definitely something new at amazon or new in the public eye. traditionally it's a company where folks keep their heads and do their business, in contrast to companies like google in the bay area that oflly have a history employee activism. i think the ball is in amazon's court for how they're going to
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react to this latest escalation from employees. ondoes this set up amazon any potential legal battle where you have employees coming out 50, 60-page document, coming out, all saying on paper, we do not want this? amazon saying please don't talk to the press without getting our permission. where does this set them up on any potential legal ramifications? >> great question. haven't seen lawsuits flying around yet but employees are saying we don't this corporate policies. if it comes to terminations, we'll see. at this point, there's nothing it.he courts about >> bloomberg's matt day keeping us honest on everything. thank you for joining us. reminder, as climate change becomes a defining issue of our times, bloomberg has launched bloomberg green which uses in-depth reporting to illustrate the scale of the challenge. that on the terminal, online and on bloomberg tv and radio. speaking of leaving fossil fuels behind, general motors,
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detroit plant, is set to go all electric next year. committed to investing 2.2 billion as paper of a new waiver deal. g.m.'s president spoke with bloomberg monday about what to all-electriche venture. >> we're redoing the whole plant highest tech, most forward-looking plant. everything from our battery trucks to the new cruise origin, which is our autonomous vehicle that we announced last week. a completely retool of the plant, from body shop to general assembly to, you know, the whole infrastructure of the plant. so 2.2 billion dollars in that. then we'll see a lot of money outside the plant from our supply base to support it. lot of jobs. so 2200 jobs will be put back this plant. we couldn't be happier. it's right down the street from the headquarters. and then if you look in warren, we're developing -- warren, up the street,
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we're really developing all of our new battery chemistry and new technology with electric motors and the whole platforms introducing next year in this plant. >> so when you will be actually rolling those electric vehicles off the assembly line, and be?'s the fist one going to that electric hummer that we've heard talk about? [laughter] >> well, there's been a lot of speculation and rumors on that, david. i think you should watch the you'll findnd maybe out a little bit more about that. but the first vehicle here which battery electric truck will be produced late next year. fast timen a very line. we have been. chemistries are ready. we announced a joint venture in ohio which will be some of the for that.ction and then in brownstown here as well, where we do some of our batteries for our electric products. so it's really -- we're a veryg, again,
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high-tech scenario for the here in michigan. and in ohio. invested billions of dollars, probably $29 billion since 2009. and that's a lot of money back into america and we're just gonna keep doing that. for us.iting >> how many different vehicles, types of vehicles will you be new electricr vehicle facility there? announced it yet but it will be multiple brands, of trucks buts not only pickup trucks, there s.u.v.'s. finally we'll have our cruise origin, our autonomous vehicle share.e it's really going to be something that is both ends of in both, you know, the highest technology available in autonomous vehicles but also our mai mainstream conversion to electric trucks.
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>> apple is heading into earnings, doing and about face from a year ago. despite c.e.o. cutting his guidance in 2019, bullish on 5g,w air pods and streaming. let's bring you the details. ♪[music] >> what a difference a year makes. ago, apple c.e.o. tim cook sent a letter to investors, saying the company its revenue in china. tim cook highlighted a major shortfall in lower iphone revenue due to fewer iphone
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anticipated. air pod sales were also constrained. one year later and wall street done and about face. they have 27 buys on the company and only seven sells. they expecting this time around to fuel the bullish sentiment? surprisingly, iphone reeve knew, despite the -- revenue. of revenue still comes from the mobile device. stanley's katie is the latest to raise her price target into earnings. says apple customers now theiroised to replace smartphones sooner. replacement cycles tend to not further.much air pods are another big reason sentiment.h they're set so double to $60 million in 2019. have outpaced the unit growth trajectory of the watch.l iphone and air pods generate $15 billion of
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revenue in 2020. apple tv plus. apple was one of the latest to enter the crowded streaming wars in late 2019 with the service debuting at 499 a month. that low price, analysts think apple tv plus is priced for subscriber gains not mar margins. but anticipation is high to see meetple revenue can expectations across the iphones, wearables and services. expectmore on what to out of apple's earnings on mark,y, we're joined by who covers the company. as much as this company wants to say their wearables are a company, 52% of revenue still comes from the iphone. see numbers do you need to out of hardware and iphone to make sure this meets those lofty expectations we have going into tomorrow? >> first thing, to your point,
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any way you slice it, this is company, right? you buy the iphone hardware and then everything is built around the hardware. and the air pods are 100% unusable and irrelevant without the iphone. need an iphone to really use either of those products. right,s of services, services, the device, the services that are used most are iphone as well, whether that's apple music, tv plus, apple arcade. this talk of all about services and wearables, is the company. theman numbers we need to see, we either need to see a little bit of growth or stagnant in terms of hardware unit sales. the iphone dropped 19% year over year. this time we're looking at drop, around 0% or negative 1% or 2%, which would be fine and a big year'sment from last situation. >> well, the opposite from beative growth would exponential growth, something we've seen from the air pods.
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need to see do we from air pods? >> yes. so apple doesn't break out airvidual numbers for the pods. but we know the air pods are a big part of their accessory segment, which also includes the home pod, apple tv, watch, a few other things. we're going to be looking for is an all-time record by a for thateen 30 and 50% seg. and i think that's going to satisfy wall street. but what wall street needs to remember is that the real breakthrough will be when the watchds and apple eventually become stand-alone products. then that's where the real come. is going to >> google acquired fitbit. does that put any more pressure on apple and the watch? >> yeah. no, absolutely not. i don't think google has shown any of itss to turn investments and hardware into an operation that can compete with any level, big or small. i think that's gonna continue
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with the watch. it's unfortunate, because the more competition, the better. but at this point, the apple watch, along with the air pods, ahead of the competition, both in terms of integration with other hardware, seem toreally doesn't be any chance of any of these other companies catching up. it's still very early, but i think every analyst is the earlyear about few months of apple tv plus and the launch. but at 4.99, i think we agree it's priced for growth, not for margins. what early numbers could we get about apple tv plus? >> that's an interesting point about it being priced for for margins. i don't know if they're there yet, right? there'sreally think going to be serious numbers to talk about until maybe a year from now. toone who really wanted subscribe to apple tv plus probably would have done it and probably would have bought an actual product that year with a free initial of apple tv plus. i'd be surprised if they give
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tomorrow on how tv plus has fared. i think they would have done so already if the numbers were particularly great. i've seen statistics out there about how it already has 30% in some regions and is approaching netflix in some respects. doesn'tin, it really matter until the dollars and cents start coming into play. that's definitely not going to about a year.or >> mark, the stock is up 90, 100% in the last year. priced to perfection? >> yeah. multiples. see their it's really hard to understand what's going on with apple stock. are going -- they're doing way better than their earnings would indicate. lot ofhink it's a optimism. over the next two years or so, aboutis going to release 10 new iphone models. that's going to be the most hardware new iphone they've ever released in a two year or even three, four year period. there's a lot of excitement. >> bringing it always back to
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>> these are your top stories this hour. advisingit is -- is citizens to reconsider travel plans to china. more cases of coronavirus have been confirmed. china is building new hospitals in wuhan with existing medical centers overwhelmed. the deadly infection is another blow to casino operators in macau.
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